Something new for GPL

Guru wrote a program that allows you to change the point of view in GPL to a more realistic one. Check out this thread on GPLEA for more info! Andre

On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 13:18:38 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote: >Guru wrote a program that allows you to change the point of view in >GPL to a more realistic one. >Check out this thread on GPLEA for more info! As a bonus, here actually is the url: http://www.legendscentral.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29&t=006995&p=1 Andre

Sorry, but I cant help it Andre - these new cams look terrible! To me they look just like any other arcade game... -- ed_ (lost!) "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 13:18:38 GMT, [email hidden] > (Andre Warringa) wrote: > > >Guru wrote a program that allows you to change the point of view in > >GPL to a more realistic one. > >Check out this thread on GPLEA for more info! > > As a bonus, here actually is the url: > > http://www.legendscentral.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29&t=00 6995&p=1 > > Andre

Love the Ferrari shot! Really feels like you're in the thing.... But ultimately I think I'd miss the steering wheel. Jonesy Remove "ANTISPAM" when replying. GPLRANK (F1): +66.15 "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 13:18:38 GMT, [email hidden] > (Andre Warringa) wrote: > > >Guru wrote a program that allows you to change the point of view in > >GPL to a more realistic one. > >Check out this thread on GPLEA for more info! > > As a bonus, here actually is the url: > >

http://www.legendscentral.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29&t=00 6995&p=1 > > Andre

Personally id go for the higher fov. use the app to set the FOV degrees to 90 (gpl default is 78?) and you get a much greater sensation of speed. those "45 degree people" dont see any speed at all. LM "Craig Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ljGw7.1143$[email hidden]...

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> Love the Ferrari shot! Really feels like you're in the thing.... > > But ultimately I think I'd miss the steering wheel. > > Jonesy > > Remove "ANTISPAM" when replying. > > GPLRANK (F1): +66.15 > > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 13:18:38 GMT, [email hidden] > > (Andre Warringa) wrote: > > > > >Guru wrote a program that allows you to change the point of view in > > >GPL to a more realistic one. > > >Check out this thread on GPLEA for more info! > > > > As a bonus, here actually is the url: > > > > >

http://www.legendscentral.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29&t=00 > 6995&p=1 > > > > Andre > >

On Tue, 9 Oct 2001 16:33:59 +0200, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Sorry, but I cant help it Andre - these new cams look terrible! >To me they look just like any other arcade game... I spend the whole evening experimenting with different settings and I love this new utility - imho you can get a much more realistic pov with it! Try 50 degrees in GPLFOV and and x value of -0.4000 in GPLSA Ed, preferably on the hilly Ring, and tell me what you think after you tried this for a while (thanks to Ant Miller for these settings):. Lately I lost a bit interest in GPL (new job - not enough time I need to devote to GPL) but this evening I was driving with the new settings on the Ring and Bremgarten - Baby, Daddy is back :) Andre

On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 17:18:09 GMT, "Craig Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Love the Ferrari shot! Really feels like you're in the thing.... > >But ultimately I think I'd miss the steering wheel. Note the text in that post, that cam position still needs some tweaking to bring the wheel back into view :) But you can't judge this just by watching a picture - you have to try these new cam settings cause it will give you a whole new sensation , since you look at the track with a different angle.. Andre

Ed Solheim <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws oSDw7.13412$[email hidden]... > Sorry, but I cant help it Andre - these new cams look terrible! > To me they look just like any other arcade game... Ed, If you really want to use that word, then the original FOV in GPL is 'arcade'. Much too wide. With the narrower FOV the tracks look much more like the real thing now, as far as I can tell. Not sure it's going to help online racing though... Bye, Leo

http://www.btinternet.com/~marc.kasairoyal/Nurby45fov.jpg sweet. "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 17:18:09 GMT, "Craig Jones" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Love the Ferrari shot! Really feels like you're in the thing.... > > > >But ultimately I think I'd miss the steering wheel. > > Note the text in that post, that cam position still needs some > tweaking to bring the wheel back into view :) > But you can't judge this just by watching a picture - you have to try > these new cam settings cause it will give you a whole new sensation , > since you look at the track with a different angle.. > > Andre >

WOW! Looks very cool :D Rafe Mc On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 03:35:41 GMT, "Charlie Buscher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >http://www.btinternet.com/~marc.kasairoyal/Nurby45fov.jpg > >sweet. >

Sorry Leo, I cant help it... but to me the view in GPL is pretty much spot on. Ever sat in a single seater? I would also argue that the view in GPL allow you to shift focus around on the track... just as you would in real life. Sure, they've supplied us with look left/right buttons - but those are way to slow and pretty much useless... IMHO. :-) -- ed_ Leo Landman wrote: > If you really want to use that word, then the original FOV in GPL is > 'arcade'. Much too wide. With the narrower FOV the tracks look much more > like the real thing now, as far as I can tell. Not sure it's going to help > online racing though...

Ed Solheim <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws bj%w7.14264$[email hidden]... > I would also argue that the view in GPL allow you to shift focus around onthe track... just as you would in real life. Ed, True. Papy made our lives a little easier by creating a wide angle FOV. At the same time though it creates a false perspective. That is immediately apparent when you drive one one of the real tracks. The FOV proggie is a bit of a trade off: natural perspective for worse visibility. Take your pick. And bring on the 180 degrees monitor... Bye, Leo

That was my reaction too. Lately I've been playing F1CS2K (waiting for F1 2001) and the view is so narrow you can hardly see into the corners. I ended up using Magic Box to make the view wider and I really thought it helped. I could see making the view in GPL a little bit narrower, but most of those shots look too narrow to me. I also thought it was interesting that people thought that their steering was linked to FOV. If you make the FOV narrower, things are going to move across the screen faster when you turn. It's just graphics. Playing with a narrower FOV will make things feel twitchier until you get used to it. It's kind of like trying to run around a Quake 3 map in zoom mode. :) I think I'll stick with the wider view. "Leo Merikallio" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9pvq9j$ovj$[email hidden]... > Personally id go for the higher fov. use the app to set the FOVdegrees to > 90 (gpl default is 78?) and you get a much greater sensation of speed.those

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> "45 degree people" dont see any speed at all. > > LM > > "Craig Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ljGw7.1143$[email hidden]... > > Love the Ferrari shot! Really feels like you're in the thing.... > > > > But ultimately I think I'd miss the steering wheel. > > > > Jonesy > > > > Remove "ANTISPAM" when replying. > > > > GPLRANK (F1): +66.15 > > > > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 13:18:38 GMT,[email hidden] > > > (Andre Warringa) wrote: > > > > > > >Guru wrote a program that allows you to change the point of viewin

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> > > >GPL to a more realistic one. > > > >Check out this thread on GPLEA for more info! > > > > > > As a bonus, here actually is the url: > > > > > > > > >

http://www.legendscentral.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=29& t=00

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> > 6995&p=1 > > > > > > Andre > > > > > >

An interesting "perspective". Back in '99, I made some alternate incar views with Brian Heiland's car cam editor for someone who wanted to have the speed and rpm display while driving in-car. And in the process I fooled around with the FOV and ended up going back to Papy's 78 degrees. A wider FOV does increase sense of speed nicely, but then the courses look too different from the other camera views, which all use 78 degrees, if memory serves. The narrower FOV's just ruin sense of speed for me, and seem to compress distance too much. As for comparing the views to the real tracks, I'd reference "Lap of the Gods" which I recently watched (& taped). It has onboard film from several GPL tracks in it, including Kyalami and Zandvoort. If anything, I thought GPL's 78 degree FOV had a bit of zoom effect relative to the TV cam, but of course I don't know what length lens that was using. I've only been 'round Spa in person, but I'd say the same applies there as well. It's a long run down into Eau Rouge, for instance, and GPL seems to compress it a bit much. Think I'll mess with this a bit and compare the results to the tape. Time to X-Periment... SB BTW - Thanks to the makers for the never-ending steam of GPL utilities! "Leo Landman" <[email hidden]> wrote...

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> Ed, > > True. Papy made our lives a little easier by creating a wide angle FOV. At > the same time though it creates a false perspective. That is immediately > apparent when you drive one one of the real tracks. The FOV proggie is a bit > of a trade off: natural perspective for worse visibility. Take your pick. > And bring on the 180 degrees monitor...

The Lap of the Gods used several different camera lenses and point of views. ON some of the shots you can see quite far into the distance, fairly similar to GPL and other sims, but on several of the laps, the camera was pointed at a lower angle and I found myself constantly trying to look UNDER the top edge of the TV to try & see further off. I either am used to the sim view or I just felt constrained by not being able to 'look' down the track with the camera's eye. dave henrie "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:k%8x7.51807$[email hidden]... > An interesting "perspective". Back in '99, I made some alternate incarviews with Brian Heiland's car cam editor for someone who > wanted to have the speed and rpm display while driving in-car

hi, Well the problem is that , us human, have a fov a nearly 180� and spherical retina so tou just CANT recreate the right FOV ,right sens of speed and right sens of distance,with a flat small monitor. Then you need to choose what you miss much ... fov ? sens of speed ? sens of distance ? It's realy hard to tune ! best regards, -- Sebastien TIXIER - Game Developer Dynamics and Car Physics http://www.eden-studios.fr GPLRank Normal:-44.24 Monster:-124.44

On Thu, 11 Oct 2001 04:13:04 GMT, "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>An interesting "perspective". Back in '99, I made some alternate incar views with Brian Heiland's car cam editor for someone who >wanted to have the speed and rpm display while driving in-car. And in the process I fooled around with the FOV and ended up going >back to Papy's 78 degrees. A wider FOV does increase sense of speed nicely, but then the courses look too different from the other >camera views, which all use 78 degrees, if memory serves. The narrower FOV's just ruin sense of speed for me, and seem to compress >distance too much. As for comparing the views to the real tracks, I'd reference "Lap of the Gods" which I recently watched (& >taped). It has onboard film from several GPL tracks in it, including Kyalami and Zandvoort. If anything, I thought GPL's 78 degree >FOV had a bit of zoom effect relative to the TV cam, but of course I don't know what length lens that was using. I've only been >'round Spa in person, but I'd say the same applies there as well. It's a long run down into Eau Rouge, for instance, and GPL seems >to compress it a bit much. Think I'll mess with this a bit and compare the results to the tape. > >Time to X-Periment... > >SB

Steve, let me know your results please.. So far I found 50 degrees and x -0.3400 (for lotus and eagle) to give me the best results. Sensation of speed decreased a bit on long straights, but I now have much more feeling of depth and speed in the corners, which I an extremely good compromis :) Andre

On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 23:48:01 GMT, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote: <snip> >I also thought it was interesting that people thought that their >steering was linked to FOV. If you make the FOV narrower, things are >going to move across the screen faster when you turn. It's just >graphics. Playing with a narrower FOV will make things feel twitchier >until you get used to it. It's kind of like trying to run around a >Quake 3 map in zoom mode. :) I think I'll stick with the wider view. Thanks for clearing that up :) On the GPLEA forum were indeed some discussions about this. I also noticed a more twitchy steering with the new POV. I took me about 2-3 hours to get used to it and get back to my old laptimes. Also the braking zones -seem- to have changed. Andre

Yeah, I noticed that on some of the replays as well. The camera was mounted high, but tilted down to show off the car and driver; an extreme being the Tyrell 6-wheeler. Pretty thought-provoking watching it circulate without the upper shroud mounted, realizing the drivers had no real side protection above hip level. MS would probably not approve... ;-) SB "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1c9x7.104320$[email hidden]...

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> The Lap of the Gods used several different camera lenses and point of > views. ON some of the shots you can see quite far into the distance, fairly > similar to GPL and other sims, but on several of the laps, the camera was > pointed at a lower angle and I found myself constantly trying to look UNDER > the top edge of the TV to try & see further off. I either am used to the > sim view or I just felt constrained by not being able to 'look' down the > track with the camera's eye.

Hi Andre, Had a go at lunch and the results confirmed my earlier experiments from '99; more than a degree or two either side of Papy's defaults just doesn't work (for me). Too wide a FOV (over 80) and distances look too stretched relative to the filmed comparisons; too narrow (below 76) and the opposite occurs, for me at least, as well as a very exaggerated impression of motion. I tried your 50 degree settings and gave myself a headache in one lap of Kyalami! ;-) Indeed, with a wider FOV, the car "seems" quite calm and stable, while the narrow FOV has it feeling extremely twitchy. But it really isn't so remarkable that the FOV affects perceived "sensitivity". Rather than the steering being locked to FOV as has been conjectured by some, just imagine driving your real car while looking through a zoom lens. Hey; they make tripods for a reason! Papy knows best, methinks - surprise! ;-) SB "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote...

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> Steve, let me know your results please.. So far I found 50 degrees and > x -0.3400 (for lotus and eagle) to give me the best results. > Sensation of speed decreased a bit on long straights, but I now have > much more feeling of depth and speed in the corners, which I an > extremely good compromis :) > > Andre

Steve Blankenship <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws k%8x7.51807$[email hidden]... > It's a long run down into Eau Rouge, for instance, and GPL seems > to compress it a bit much. Funny, I had exactly the opposite experience. I've driven the Ring, Spa and Zandvoort in person, and in all cases the straights seemed much shorter, the hills much steeper than GPL had led me to believe! Hence, the FOV must be wrong (although much more practical when driving on a monitor). > BTW - Thanks to the makers for the never-ending steam of GPL utilities! Amen. Bye, Leo

On Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:10:55 +0200, "Leo Landman" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >Steve Blankenship <[email hidden]> schreef in berichtnieuws >k%8x7.51807$[email hidden]... > >> It's a long run down into Eau Rouge, for instance, and GPL seems >> to compress it a bit much. > >Funny, I had exactly the opposite experience. I've driven the Ring, Spa and >Zandvoort in person, and in all cases the straights seemed much shorter, the >hills much steeper than GPL had led me to believe! Hence, the FOV must be >wrong (although much more practical when driving on a monitor).

Exactly - after spending 3 days on the Ring, I missed something in the GPL version.. the new setting makes it much closer to the real life experience - in my experience :) Andre

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> >> BTW - Thanks to the makers for the never-ending steam of GPL utilities! > >Amen. > >Bye, >Leo >

Hmmm...... Oh well, perception's a funny thing. But since my in-person experience is rather dated ('88) and my frame of reference is thus mostly from the Telly, I'll bow to you guys and try the narrower FOV some more. Cheers, SB "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote... > Exactly - after spending 3 days on the Ring, I missed something in the > GPL version.. the new setting makes it much closer to the real life > experience - in my experience :) > > Andre

In article <1c9x7.104320$[email hidden]>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> The Lap of the Gods used several different camera lenses and point of >views. ON some of the shots you can see quite far into the distance, fairly >similar to GPL and other sims, but on several of the laps, the camera was >pointed at a lower angle and I found myself constantly trying to look UNDER >the top edge of the TV to try & see further off. I either am used to the >sim view or I just felt constrained by not being able to 'look' down the >track with the camera's eye.

I seem to have the opposite problem in GPL. I don't think I *am* looking into the distance. It seems that I'm staring at a point just in front of my car. I'd forgotten about that for a while. Last year or so when I made a conscious effort to look in the distance, my eyes started to hurt after a while. I don't know why it's so tough to look ahead in GPL, when I don't have a problem in my real car. Especially when others(such as yourself) don't have a problem in GPL. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett F1 hcp. +16.36...Monster +360.54... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes: [snip] > But it really isn't so remarkable that the FOV affects perceived > "sensitivity". Rather than the steering being locked to FOV as has > been conjectured by some, just imagine driving your real car while > looking through a zoom lens. Hey; they make tripods for a reason! > > Papy knows best, methinks - surprise! ;-) True, but regarding GPL it's the other way around: the standard view is like driving your car while looking through a wide angle lens (unless you have a very large monitor). You get the natural perspective only when the FOV is the same as the angle between the left and right screen edge (as seen from your eyes). Anything else either gives a wide angle or a zoom effect. With the combination of monitor size and distance to the monitor you normally get with a PC, 78 degrees FOV is way too much to get a natural perspective. The 78 degrees was _not_ choosen to get a natural perspective, but to get a resonable compromise between a natural perspective and showing as much of the total view visible to the human eye as possible (which would need something like 180 degrees FOV). _ Mats Lofkvist [email hidden]