F1 2001 with masked IP

Has anyone had any luck connecting Multiplayer from behind a proxy server? I have a W2K server set up as a NAT server and I cannot see the remote game unless I disconnect the internet from my server and plug it directly into my computer. I've tried Internet Connection Sharing as well and it doesn't work either. I have never had any trouble before connecting to internet games (Half-life N4, Quake3 etc etc etc) when I was behind my server. Anyone have any suggestions? I did some experimenting tonight and it appears that clients connect on port 4284 to the F1 2001 game. Why is this game giving me such problems when connecting via internet???? HELP! Thanks, Chris

On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:20:25 -0400, "Chris Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Has anyone had any luck connecting Multiplayer from behind a proxy server? >I have a W2K server set up as a NAT server and I cannot see the remote game >unless I disconnect the internet from my server and plug it directly into my >computer. I've tried Internet Connection Sharing as well and it doesn't >work either. > >I have never had any trouble before connecting to internet games (Half-life >N4, Quake3 etc etc etc) when I was behind my server. Anyone have any >suggestions? I did some experimenting tonight and it appears that clients >connect on port 4284 to the F1 2001 game. > >Why is this game giving me such problems when connecting via internet????

I tried it a couple of times with some friends online. Sometimes it works very good (racing itself is good, no warping and good collission detection) but more often we have big problems.. disco's, cars start at exactly the same point during the start, while racing you suddenly get a tv-cam view and a couple of seconds later you are being dropped back to chat without a reason.. very weird. Yesterday we tried again, I was the host. 3 players in total, both other players getting major warps, making it unplayable for them. And I'm on cable, so it shouldn't be -that- bad, and I've hosted f1 2001 succesfully in the past. Even worse was that one of the guys couldn't drive out of the pits, no matter what he tried.. I tried to help him by driving into his pitbox, lining up behind him, hitting the gas and trying to push him out of the pitbox, but no luck :) Later someone else tried to host, but that was even worse.. we couldn't hear each other chat, constant disco's, and mine and another guy's pc locked up twice. Multiplayer is fun in f1 2001 when it works, but the huge amount of problems make it unplayable :( Andre

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> >HELP! > >Thanks, > Chris > > > > >

This doesn't sound promising! Has anyone had any better results with F1 2001 online? And is there any prospect of a matchmaking service, like VROC or Gamespy? Also, does anyone have any more detailed information about setting up your gateway for racing F1 2001 over the Internet? I'm using Sygate (still!) and am wondering how to configure it so I can host or join from behind the gateway. So far, I can join another race, but F1 2001 boots me out after a couple of minutes. The other user can't see my race if I host. Alison On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:38:54 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote:

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>On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:20:25 -0400, "Chris Rogers" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Has anyone had any luck connecting Multiplayer from behind a proxy server? >>I have a W2K server set up as a NAT server and I cannot see the remote game >>unless I disconnect the internet from my server and plug it directly into my >>computer. I've tried Internet Connection Sharing as well and it doesn't >>work either. >> >>I have never had any trouble before connecting to internet games (Half-life >>N4, Quake3 etc etc etc) when I was behind my server. Anyone have any >>suggestions? I did some experimenting tonight and it appears that clients >>connect on port 4284 to the F1 2001 game. >> >>Why is this game giving me such problems when connecting via internet???? > >I tried it a couple of times with some friends online. Sometimes it >works very good (racing itself is good, no warping and good collission >detection) but more often we have big problems.. disco's, cars start >at exactly the same point during the start, while racing you suddenly >get a tv-cam view and a couple of seconds later you are being dropped >back to chat without a reason.. very weird. > >Yesterday we tried again, I was the host. 3 players in total, both >other players getting major warps, making it unplayable for them. And >I'm on cable, so it shouldn't be -that- bad, and I've hosted f1 2001 >succesfully in the past. Even worse was that one of the guys couldn't >drive out of the pits, no matter what he tried.. > >I tried to help him by driving into his pitbox, lining up behind him, >hitting the gas and trying to push him out of the pitbox, but no luck >:) > >Later someone else tried to host, but that was even worse.. we >couldn't hear each other chat, constant disco's, and mine and another >guy's pc locked up twice. Multiplayer is fun in f1 2001 when it works, >but the huge amount of problems make it unplayable :( > >Andre > > >> >>HELP! >> >>Thanks, >> Chris >> >> >> >> >>

Alison From: [email hidden] Reply-To: [email hidden] Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.com

You haven't heard of Relay? http://f12001.relaygames.com/ David G Fisher "Alison Hine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> This doesn't sound promising! Has anyone had any better results with F1 > 2001 online? And is there any prospect of a matchmaking service, like > VROC or Gamespy? > > Also, does anyone have any more detailed information about setting up > your gateway for racing F1 2001 over the Internet? I'm using Sygate > (still!) and am wondering how to configure it so I can host or join from > behind the gateway. > > So far, I can join another race, but F1 2001 boots me out after a couple > of minutes. The other user can't see my race if I host. > > Alison > > On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:38:54 GMT, [email hidden] > (Andre Warringa) wrote: > > >On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:20:25 -0400, "Chris Rogers" > ><[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >>Has anyone had any luck connecting Multiplayer from behind a proxy

server? > >>I have a W2K server set up as a NAT server and I cannot see the remotegame > >>unless I disconnect the internet from my server and plug it directlyinto my > >>computer. I've tried Internet Connection Sharing as well and it doesn't > >>work either. > >> > >>I have never had any trouble before connecting to internet games(Half-life > >>N4, Quake3 etc etc etc) when I was behind my server. Anyone have any > >>suggestions? I did some experimenting tonight and it appears thatclients > >>connect on port 4284 to the F1 2001 game. > >> > >>Why is this game giving me such problems when connecting viainternet????

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> > > >I tried it a couple of times with some friends online. Sometimes it > >works very good (racing itself is good, no warping and good collission > >detection) but more often we have big problems.. disco's, cars start > >at exactly the same point during the start, while racing you suddenly > >get a tv-cam view and a couple of seconds later you are being dropped > >back to chat without a reason.. very weird. > > > >Yesterday we tried again, I was the host. 3 players in total, both > >other players getting major warps, making it unplayable for them. And > >I'm on cable, so it shouldn't be -that- bad, and I've hosted f1 2001 > >succesfully in the past. Even worse was that one of the guys couldn't > >drive out of the pits, no matter what he tried.. > > > >I tried to help him by driving into his pitbox, lining up behind him, > >hitting the gas and trying to push him out of the pitbox, but no luck > >:) > > > >Later someone else tried to host, but that was even worse.. we > >couldn't hear each other chat, constant disco's, and mine and another > >guy's pc locked up twice. Multiplayer is fun in f1 2001 when it works, > >but the huge amount of problems make it unplayable :( > > > >Andre > > > > > >> > >>HELP! > >> > >>Thanks, > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > Alison > > From: [email hidden] > Reply-To: [email hidden] > Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. > http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.com

Whoops, I hit the send button too soon. F1Relay is one of the best things to happen to sim racing in a long time. Online match making and in depth ranking system, and also offline hotlap rankings. It first supported F1RC and now F12001, and I believe RT will be supported soon too. David G Fisher "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:juZH7.210801$[email hidden]...

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> You haven't heard of Relay? http://f12001.relaygames.com/ > > David G Fisher > > > "Alison Hine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > This doesn't sound promising! Has anyone had any better results with F1 > > 2001 online? And is there any prospect of a matchmaking service, like > > VROC or Gamespy? > > > > Also, does anyone have any more detailed information about setting up > > your gateway for racing F1 2001 over the Internet? I'm using Sygate > > (still!) and am wondering how to configure it so I can host or join from > > behind the gateway. > > > > So far, I can join another race, but F1 2001 boots me out after a couple > > of minutes. The other user can't see my race if I host. > > > > Alison > > > > On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:38:54 GMT, [email hidden] > > (Andre Warringa) wrote: > > > > >On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:20:25 -0400, "Chris Rogers" > > ><[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > >>Has anyone had any luck connecting Multiplayer from behind a proxy > server? > > >>I have a W2K server set up as a NAT server and I cannot see the remote > game > > >>unless I disconnect the internet from my server and plug it directly > into my > > >>computer. I've tried Internet Connection Sharing as well and it

doesn't

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> > >>work either. > > >> > > >>I have never had any trouble before connecting to internet games > (Half-life > > >>N4, Quake3 etc etc etc) when I was behind my server. Anyone have any > > >>suggestions? I did some experimenting tonight and it appears that > clients > > >>connect on port 4284 to the F1 2001 game. > > >> > > >>Why is this game giving me such problems when connecting via > internet???? > > > > > >I tried it a couple of times with some friends online. Sometimes it > > >works very good (racing itself is good, no warping and good collission > > >detection) but more often we have big problems.. disco's, cars start > > >at exactly the same point during the start, while racing you suddenly > > >get a tv-cam view and a couple of seconds later you are being dropped > > >back to chat without a reason.. very weird. > > > > > >Yesterday we tried again, I was the host. 3 players in total, both > > >other players getting major warps, making it unplayable for them. And > > >I'm on cable, so it shouldn't be -that- bad, and I've hosted f1 2001 > > >succesfully in the past. Even worse was that one of the guys couldn't > > >drive out of the pits, no matter what he tried.. > > > > > >I tried to help him by driving into his pitbox, lining up behind him, > > >hitting the gas and trying to push him out of the pitbox, but no luck > > >:) > > > > > >Later someone else tried to host, but that was even worse.. we > > >couldn't hear each other chat, constant disco's, and mine and another > > >guy's pc locked up twice. Multiplayer is fun in f1 2001 when it works, > > >but the huge amount of problems make it unplayable :( > > > > > >Andre > > > > > > > > >> > > >>HELP! > > >> > > >>Thanks, > > >> Chris > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Alison > > > > From: [email hidden] > > Reply-To: [email hidden] > > Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. > > http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.com > >

This is the email I got back from support when I asked the firewall port. I haven't tried it yet but here's what they said ... Hello Phillip, Thank you for sending us your concerns about F1 2001. F1 uses port 1791 to play through. I hope this information helps you and please do not hesitate to let me know if you need further assistance. Thank you, John T. EA Technical Support "Alison Hine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> This doesn't sound promising! Has anyone had any better results with F1 > 2001 online? And is there any prospect of a matchmaking service, like > VROC or Gamespy? > > Also, does anyone have any more detailed information about setting up > your gateway for racing F1 2001 over the Internet? I'm using Sygate > (still!) and am wondering how to configure it so I can host or join from > behind the gateway. > > So far, I can join another race, but F1 2001 boots me out after a couple > of minutes. The other user can't see my race if I host. > > Alison > > On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:38:54 GMT, [email hidden] > (Andre Warringa) wrote: > > >On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:20:25 -0400, "Chris Rogers" > ><[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >>Has anyone had any luck connecting Multiplayer from behind a proxy

server? > >>I have a W2K server set up as a NAT server and I cannot see the remotegame > >>unless I disconnect the internet from my server and plug it directlyinto my > >>computer. I've tried Internet Connection Sharing as well and it doesn't > >>work either. > >> > >>I have never had any trouble before connecting to internet games(Half-life > >>N4, Quake3 etc etc etc) when I was behind my server. Anyone have any > >>suggestions? I did some experimenting tonight and it appears thatclients > >>connect on port 4284 to the F1 2001 game. > >> > >>Why is this game giving me such problems when connecting viainternet????

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> > > >I tried it a couple of times with some friends online. Sometimes it > >works very good (racing itself is good, no warping and good collission > >detection) but more often we have big problems.. disco's, cars start > >at exactly the same point during the start, while racing you suddenly > >get a tv-cam view and a couple of seconds later you are being dropped > >back to chat without a reason.. very weird. > > > >Yesterday we tried again, I was the host. 3 players in total, both > >other players getting major warps, making it unplayable for them. And > >I'm on cable, so it shouldn't be -that- bad, and I've hosted f1 2001 > >succesfully in the past. Even worse was that one of the guys couldn't > >drive out of the pits, no matter what he tried.. > > > >I tried to help him by driving into his pitbox, lining up behind him, > >hitting the gas and trying to push him out of the pitbox, but no luck > >:) > > > >Later someone else tried to host, but that was even worse.. we > >couldn't hear each other chat, constant disco's, and mine and another > >guy's pc locked up twice. Multiplayer is fun in f1 2001 when it works, > >but the huge amount of problems make it unplayable :( > > > >Andre > > > > > >> > >>HELP! > >> > >>Thanks, > >> Chris > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > Alison > > From: [email hidden] > Reply-To: [email hidden] > Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. > http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.com

So, how is F1 2001 online? Is it tight like GPL? -- "Racing! - Science for the action minded." mark "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:juZH7.210801$[email hidden]... > You haven't heard of Relay? http://f12001.relaygames.com/ > > David G Fisher > > > "Alison Hine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > This doesn't sound promising! Has anyone had any better results with F1 > > 2001 online? And is there any prospect of a matchmaking service, like > > VROC or Gamespy? > > > > Also, does anyone have any more detailed information about setting up > > your gateway for racing F1 2001 over the Internet? I'm using Sygate > > (still!) and am wondering how to configure it so I can host or join from > > behind the gateway. > > > > So far, I can join another race, but F1 2001 boots me out after a couple > > of minutes. The other user can't see my race if I host. > > > > Alison > > > > On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:38:54 GMT, [email hidden] > > (Andre Warringa) wrote: > > > > >On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:20:25 -0400, "Chris Rogers" > > ><[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > >>Has anyone had any luck connecting Multiplayer from behind a proxy > server? > > >>I have a W2K server set up as a NAT server and I cannot see the remote > game > > >>unless I disconnect the internet from my server and plug it directly > into my > > >>computer. I've tried Internet Connection Sharing as well and it doesn't > > >>work either. > > >> > > >>I have never had any trouble before connecting to internet games > (Half-life > > >>N4, Quake3 etc etc etc) when I was behind my server. Anyone have any > > >>suggestions? I did some experimenting tonight and it appears that > clients > > >>connect on port 4284 to the F1 2001 game. > > >> > > >>Why is this game giving me such problems when connecting via > internet???? > > > > > >I tried it a couple of times with some friends online. Sometimes it > > >works very good (racing itself is good, no warping and good collission > > >detection) but more often we have big problems.. disco's, cars start > > >at exactly the same point during the start, while racing you suddenly > > >get a tv-cam view and a couple of seconds later you are being dropped > > >back to chat without a reason.. very weird. > > > > > >Yesterday we tried again, I was the host. 3 players in total, both > > >other players getting major warps, making it unplayable for them. And > > >I'm on cable, so it shouldn't be -that- bad, and I've hosted f1 2001 > > >succesfully in the past. Even worse was that one of the guys couldn't > > >drive out of the pits, no matter what he tried.. > > > > > >I tried to help him by driving into his pitbox, lining up behind him, > > >hitting the gas and trying to push him out of the pitbox, but no luck > > >:) > > > > > >Later someone else tried to host, but that was even worse.. we > > >couldn't hear each other chat, constant disco's, and mine and another > > >guy's pc locked up twice. Multiplayer is fun in f1 2001 when it works, > > >but the huge amount of problems make it unplayable :( > > > > > >Andre > > > > > > > > >> > > >>HELP! > > >> > > >>Thanks, > > >> Chris > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > Alison > > > > From: [email hidden] > > Reply-To: [email hidden] > > Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. > > http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.com > >

Thanks for forwarding this, Philip! I must admit that specifying a single port puzzles me. Also they don't say whether it's UDP or TCP. As I understand it, usually there is one master port for the initial connection and a range of ports, one of which is used by each client after the initial connection is made. For a server behind a gateway, the master port has to be opened in the gateway for incoming connections, and the range of client ports may need to be opened also for incoming connections. For a client behind a gateway, if all connections are outgoing, and the gateway allows such connections, you might need to do nothing to the gateway. That's the way it is with GPL and Sygate, anyway. However, with F1 2001, I found that even as a client, although I could see the server and join it, I could never see the remote car, and the host couldn't see my car either. Within a minute or so of entering the track, I was dropped from the server. That suggests that the initial connection was made, but the real-time packets (presumably going through one of those client ports) aren't getting through. Any additional help would be welcome! Alison On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 03:18:56 GMT, "Phillip Malphrus, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>This is the email I got back from support when I asked the firewall port. I >haven't tried it yet but here's what they said ... > >Hello Phillip, > >Thank you for sending us your concerns about F1 2001. > >F1 uses port 1791 to play through. > >I hope this information helps you and please do not hesitate to let me know >if you need further assistance. > >Thank you, > >John T. >EA Technical Support > > > >"Alison Hine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> This doesn't sound promising! Has anyone had any better results with F1 >> 2001 online? And is there any prospect of a matchmaking service, like >> VROC or Gamespy? >> >> Also, does anyone have any more detailed information about setting up >> your gateway for racing F1 2001 over the Internet? I'm using Sygate >> (still!) and am wondering how to configure it so I can host or join from >> behind the gateway. >> >> So far, I can join another race, but F1 2001 boots me out after a couple >> of minutes. The other user can't see my race if I host. >> >> Alison >> >> On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 08:38:54 GMT, [email hidden] >> (Andre Warringa) wrote: >> >> >On Fri, 19 Oct 2001 00:20:25 -0400, "Chris Rogers" >> ><[email hidden]> wrote: >> > >> >>Has anyone had any luck connecting Multiplayer from behind a proxy >server? >> >>I have a W2K server set up as a NAT server and I cannot see the remote >game >> >>unless I disconnect the internet from my server and plug it directly >into my >> >>computer. I've tried Internet Connection Sharing as well and it doesn't >> >>work either. >> >> >> >>I have never had any trouble before connecting to internet games >(Half-life >> >>N4, Quake3 etc etc etc) when I was behind my server. Anyone have any >> >>suggestions? I did some experimenting tonight and it appears that >clients >> >>connect on port 4284 to the F1 2001 game. >> >> >> >>Why is this game giving me such problems when connecting via >internet???? >> > >> >I tried it a couple of times with some friends online. Sometimes it >> >works very good (racing itself is good, no warping and good collission >> >detection) but more often we have big problems.. disco's, cars start >> >at exactly the same point during the start, while racing you suddenly >> >get a tv-cam view and a couple of seconds later you are being dropped >> >back to chat without a reason.. very weird. >> > >> >Yesterday we tried again, I was the host. 3 players in total, both >> >other players getting major warps, making it unplayable for them. And >> >I'm on cable, so it shouldn't be -that- bad, and I've hosted f1 2001 >> >succesfully in the past. Even worse was that one of the guys couldn't >> >drive out of the pits, no matter what he tried.. >> > >> >I tried to help him by driving into his pitbox, lining up behind him, >> >hitting the gas and trying to push him out of the pitbox, but no luck >> >:) >> > >> >Later someone else tried to host, but that was even worse.. we >> >couldn't hear each other chat, constant disco's, and mine and another >> >guy's pc locked up twice. Multiplayer is fun in f1 2001 when it works, >> >but the huge amount of problems make it unplayable :( >> > >> >Andre >> > >> > >> >> >> >>HELP! >> >> >> >>Thanks, >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Alison >> >> From: [email hidden] >> Reply-To: [email hidden] >> Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. >> http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.com >

Alison From: [email hidden] Reply-To: [email hidden] Remove the spam blocker NOSPAM to email me. http://eaglewoman.maximumspeed.net

"Alison Hine" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Thanks for forwarding this, Philip! > > I must admit that specifying a single port puzzles me. Also they don't > say whether it's UDP or TCP. > > As I understand it, usually there is one master port for the initial > connection and a range of ports, one of which is used by each client > after the initial connection is made.

In general, this is not necessary. Compare to a webserver: many clients connect to it's port 80, and each has it's own communication channel. The individual connections are identified by the client ip and port making it possible to have two different connections from one client (ie two browsers running on one pc). There is no reason for games to act different, except for the internal implementation. With one port per client, the server can run seperate thread for each client handling the specific port. In the one port configuration there would be one thread handling the traffic. Bart Westra

"As I understand it, usually there is one master port for the initial connection and a range of ports, one of which is used by each client after the initial connection is made." This assumption holds true when dealing with Sockets based Network Code, and even DX7 DirectPlay netcode. However, it does not hold true with DX8 or moreso in F12001 (which as far as I can tell without having a direct look at teh netcode source, it is actually a TCP/UDP hybrid config.). *Normally* a game will attempt an initial connection with the server/clients on a timed TCP packet loop (DirectX for example uses a 32 second timeout value inherit in Windows TCP protocol... hence explaining why it usually takes about that long before a game will send back a "could not find host" message.) If that timeout is reached... Windows assumes the host is unreachable, or is non-existant at the specified IP address. The fundamentals of how this works is inherit to the TCP protocol, which is a "guaranteed protocol". Meaning, TCP will cause the client machine to "wait" until a reply is recieved. This is a good method for "mission critical packet retrieval", but has costly time issues associated with it. Initial connection and menu screen navigation is such an area where "time loops" do not *usually* cause any timeouts, so the guaranteed nature of the TCP packet is best suited. Once a TCP connection is made (the original handshake), the game *usually* uses UDP packets to send game data (since UDP does not wait for a timeout value... it simply sends and forgets, and whether it reaches the host is irrelevant [in UDP]). UDP is better for sending game data, since the client machines do not have to wait for a reply (this is compounded in session where there are people 500ms away from each other). If a game were to use TCP packets, it could take 2-3 seconds for each packet from each client to be "verified". Thus, the lag caused would be extreme. Condensed: The game will create the initial connection and participate in Menu-Screen communications through the TCP protocol, and send the positional data, etc. through the UDP protocol *usually*. This was fine and dandy in DX7 (which used a port range of 2300-2400 for game data) and still is in Sockets based netcode, but DX8 now only uses 1 port to send/recieve data. That port is 6163. ALL info is sent through that port now. Thus making any "Proxy Configs" completely useless, and indeed MS suggests that you do not use proxies/routers for DX8 Net-based games. This is because of the fundamentals of how an NAT/Proxy system works. It applies to the basic rule that only 1 computer can occupy a port mapping at 1 time, and a specific rule must be in place to solidify this mapping. In a sockets based netcode, you are capable (if the programmers think ahead) of selecting which ports you would like to use. Thus, (like in GPL core.ini settings) you can have different clients using different ports, and map those unique ports accordingly and successfully in your Proxy Soft/Router. The #1 issue with online gaming (spanning all genres), is player syncronization. In a LAN environment, you are pretty much guaranteed 99% packet retrieval. This is due to simple proximity of the computers. However, in the infinitly unstable (and thus unreliable) beast we call the Internet, connections are not always (in fact rarely) this cut and dry. TCP can "verify" retrieval, but has costly timing issues associated. UDP is a "send and forget" protocol which negates the "timing issues", but compounds the "quality issues". Meaning, if a number of packets sent are NOT retrieved by the host, the host can quickly lose syncronization with the offending party/client. They can "pick up" where they left off once a packet does arrive, and this is seen visually on the screen as cars "hopping" or "instant appear". Now we move onto getting F12001 playable through a Proxy/Router. Bottomline: Pick a computer to race with... thats the only one you've got online. Once you have picked the computer... make it a DMZ computer on your Proxy. We have found F12001 to be "random" in its port selection (GAWD I WISH it was at least static 1791, but our investigations have proven that to be untrue). Meaning... intial connection is done through 6163. However, F12001 will then pick a random port to use for data-transfer. The port sync is accomplished through the 6163 initial connection, port open/sync is accomplished, and away you go. However, we throw a router/Proxy in there, and its next to impossible, since we know that F12001 uses "random ports". Our experience is that it seems to like ports between 1000 ~~> 8000, and so far we have not had problems. You cannot select the ports, do not know a static port, which makes playing behind a proxy/router on anything other than a DMZ computer, futile. Alisson, you mentioned that you use Sygate. I would HIGHLY suggest dropping that and going with Winroute (http://www.tinysoftware.com) It is worlds easier to configure, is much higher performing, and is overall just a better package (I especially avoid Sygate like the plague... horrible implementation of NAT, and problematic is an understatement...). We have done up a Network Guide that explains how to properly map your ports in Winroute at: http://f12001.relaygames.com/guide-network.asp Its also worth noting that Relay can be configured to use proxies and routers using a variety of methods inside the Network Options. Hope that helps. Cheers, Schumi

wow :) "Schumi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:67yI7.42328$[email hidden]... > "As I understand it, usually there is one master port for the initial > connection and a range of ports, one of which is used by each client after > the initial connection is made." > > This assumption holds true when dealing with Sockets based Network Code,and > even DX7 DirectPlay netcode. However, it does not hold true with DX8 or > moreso in F12001 (which as far as I can tell without having a direct lookat > teh netcode source, it is actually a TCP/UDP hybrid config.). > > *Normally* a game will attempt an initial connection with theserver/clients

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> on a timed TCP packet loop (DirectX for example uses a 32 second timeout > value inherit in Windows TCP protocol... hence explaining why it usually > takes about that long before a game will send back a "could not find host" > message.) If that timeout is reached... Windows assumes the host is > unreachable, or is non-existant at the specified IP address. The > fundamentals of how this works is inherit to the TCP protocol, which is a > "guaranteed protocol". Meaning, TCP will cause the client machine to

"wait" > until a reply is recieved. This is a good method for "mission critical > packet retrieval", but has costly time issues associated with it. Initial > connection and menu screen navigation is such an area where "time loops"do > not *usually* cause any timeouts, so the guaranteed nature of the TCPpacket > is best suited. > > Once a TCP connection is made (the original handshake), the game *usually* > uses UDP packets to send game data (since UDP does not wait for a timeout > value... it simply sends and forgets, and whether it reaches the host is > irrelevant [in UDP]). UDP is better for sending game data, since theclient

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> machines do not have to wait for a reply (this is compounded in session > where there are people 500ms away from each other). If a game were to use > TCP packets, it could take 2-3 seconds for each packet from each client to > be "verified". Thus, the lag caused would be extreme. > > Condensed: The game will create the initial connection and participate in > Menu-Screen communications through the TCP protocol, and send the

positional > data, etc. through the UDP protocol *usually*. > > This was fine and dandy in DX7 (which used a port range of 2300-2400 for > game data) and still is in Sockets based netcode, but DX8 now only uses 1 > port to send/recieve data. That port is 6163. ALL info is sent throughthat > port now. Thus making any "Proxy Configs" completely useless, and indeedMS > suggests that you do not use proxies/routers for DX8 Net-based games. This > is because of the fundamentals of how an NAT/Proxy system works. Itapplies > to the basic rule that only 1 computer can occupy a port mapping at 1time, > and a specific rule must be in place to solidify this mapping. In asockets > based netcode, you are capable (if the programmers think ahead) ofselecting > which ports you would like to use. Thus, (like in GPL core.ini settings)you > can have different clients using different ports, and map those uniqueports > accordingly and successfully in your Proxy Soft/Router. > > The #1 issue with online gaming (spanning all genres), is player > syncronization. In a LAN environment, you are pretty much guaranteed 99% > packet retrieval. This is due to simple proximity of the computers.However, > in the infinitly unstable (and thus unreliable) beast we call theInternet, > connections are not always (in fact rarely) this cut and dry. > > TCP can "verify" retrieval, but has costly timing issues associated. UDPis > a "send and forget" protocol which negates the "timing issues", but > compounds the "quality issues". Meaning, if a number of packets sent areNOT > retrieved by the host, the host can quickly lose syncronization with the > offending party/client. They can "pick up" where they left off once apacket

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> does arrive, and this is seen visually on the screen as cars "hopping" or > "instant appear". > > Now we move onto getting F12001 playable through a Proxy/Router. > > Bottomline: Pick a computer to race with... thats the only one you've got > online. > > Once you have picked the computer... make it a DMZ computer on your Proxy. > We have found F12001 to be "random" in its port selection (GAWD I WISH it > was at least static 1791, but our investigations have proven that to be > untrue). Meaning... intial connection is done through 6163. However,

F12001 > will then pick a random port to use for data-transfer. The port sync is > accomplished through the 6163 initial connection, port open/sync is > accomplished, and away you go. > > However, we throw a router/Proxy in there, and its next to impossible,since > we know that F12001 uses "random ports". Our experience is that it seemsto > like ports between 1000 ~~> 8000, and so far we have not had problems. You > cannot select the ports, do not know a static port, which makes playing > behind a proxy/router on anything other than a DMZ computer, futile. > > Alisson, you mentioned that you use Sygate. I would HIGHLY suggestdropping > that and going with Winroute (http://www.tinysoftware.com) It is worlds > easier to configure, is much higher performing, and is overall just abetter > package (I especially avoid Sygate like the plague... horrible > implementation of NAT, and problematic is an understatement...). > > We have done up a Network Guide that explains how to properly map yourports

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> in Winroute at: http://f12001.relaygames.com/guide-network.asp > > Its also worth noting that Relay can be configured to use proxies and > routers using a variety of methods inside the Network Options. > > Hope that helps. > > Cheers, > Schumi > >

"Schumi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<67yI7.42328$[email hidden]>...

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> "As I understand it, usually there is one master port for the initial > connection and a range of ports, one of which is used by each client after > the initial connection is made." > > This assumption holds true when dealing with Sockets based Network Code, and > even DX7 DirectPlay netcode. However, it does not hold true with DX8 or > moreso in F12001 (which as far as I can tell without having a direct look at > teh netcode source, it is actually a TCP/UDP hybrid config.).>

[snip]

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> Now we move onto getting F12001 playable through a Proxy/Router. > > Bottomline: Pick a computer to race with... thats the only one you've got > online. > > Once you have picked the computer... make it a DMZ computer on your Proxy. > We have found F12001 to be "random" in its port selection (GAWD I WISH it > was at least static 1791, but our investigations have proven that to be > untrue). Meaning... intial connection is done through 6163. However, F12001 > will then pick a random port to use for data-transfer. The port sync is > accomplished through the 6163 initial connection, port open/sync is > accomplished, and away you go. > > However, we throw a router/Proxy in there, and its next to impossible, since > we know that F12001 uses "random ports". Our experience is that it seems to > like ports between 1000 ~~> 8000, and so far we have not had problems. You > cannot select the ports, do not know a static port, which makes playing > behind a proxy/router on anything other than a DMZ computer, futile. > > Alisson, you mentioned that you use Sygate. I would HIGHLY suggest dropping > that and going with Winroute (http://www.tinysoftware.com) It is worlds > easier to configure, is much higher performing, and is overall just a better > package (I especially avoid Sygate like the plague... horrible > implementation of NAT, and problematic is an understatement...). > > We have done up a Network Guide that explains how to properly map your ports > in Winroute at: http://f12001.relaygames.com/guide-network.asp

This looks like a lot of good information. However, usually when I race online it's with GPL and VROC. Has anyone set up Winroute for hosting and joining GPL races from behind it? Is this difficult or easy, and does it work well? > Its also worth noting that Relay can be configured to use proxies and > routers using a variety of methods inside the Network Options. Thanks for all the info, Schumi! Great stuff!

Hi Alisson, I can say with absolute certainty that winroute works with GPL and VROC. I know because I have done it quite easily. In fact, it is much easier to map the ports to multiple machines with winroute (and even flip-flop them as needed) than the other 2. I've tried it with Sygate, Win ICS, and Winroute. I found connection quality, stability, etc. far superior through winroute (no I don't work for the company or have anything to gain by suggesting winroute). I found Sygate extremely finicky and brutally cumbersome (particularly in a LAN environment that changes often, or has other computers connecting randomly). Not to mention that the port mapping is made 1000X easier in Winroute (I don't even dare go any further into the attrocious port mapping support in Win ICS amongst other brutal methods it uses... I'll give my blood pressure a break here), and I actually find it takes no more than 2 minutes to setup my entire 5 computer LAN from scratch (it really is that easy... particularly when working with port ranges, and UDP/TCP combinations). Quite often I run into peeps who run Sygate, or Win ICS, only to have problems configuring their LAN for online game play. Many of them switched to Winroute on my suggestion, and they were up and running in 10 minutes maximum (keep in mind these are peeps who do not *normally* work with proxies and port mappings, etc.... and they've never used the prog before). BTW... for those Zone Alarm 'victims'... Tiny Software has a personal (free) firewall prog with the basic fundamentals of Zone Alarm (a firewall for newbies)... Only Tiny actually managed to do it right, and allows a LOT more freedom, whilst still maintaining the "complete lock-down unless I give permission to open it" approach (which I still find a bit ridiculous to restrict outgoing traffic in a personal LAN environment... oh well, we digress with the force of ignorance I suppose). Anyways... thaz just what I suggest. Cheers, Schumi