RT: Demo impressions - mixed feelings (long)

[NOTE: This is another copy or my post on the Rally Trophy furoms at High Gear and JoWood] Having tested both the '0.52 preview' version and the demo, I must admit that I'm actually quite disappointed about the latter. For several reasons: Sure the Mini is fun to drive and it all look stunning.. BUT (big but) it just feels so wrong compared to the earlier version I tested.. (in case you missed it... I made a preview-movie of 'RT' some time ago.. (43mb - 3min40ish - DivX) ( http://home.online.no/~igplc ) First of all let me say that I am aware that the 3 cars in the preview was all RWD while the Mini is ofcourse a FWD car. Having owned and raced a Mini over several years I think there is something *very* wrong with the FWD and certainly the Mini physics. I have been "on the edge" (and beyond!) with a mini several times and there are certain things you *never* do with a FWD car... among them is going *off* the throttle when you got the car is sliding with opposite lock - it will "come back at ya" with a snap!! Big time! If you get into a slide - there's only one way to get out of it.. and that is to get the pedal to the metal and make the car "pull" itself straght again. Go of the throttle and you'll get a contra-slide instantly. Try this in the demo and you'll see that the car just "plows" staight on... just like a understeering cow. Secondly... the physics - have they been changed? For the *worse* I mean? To me the physics in the demo both feel and look a lot simpler and "easier" than the 0.52 preview. I've just been comparing the two and I must say that either the physics have been made easier (to boost sales?) or someone's modelled the Mini with a centre of gravity well below ground.. I've just spendt 10 minutes trying to roll the damn thing - and it's virtually impossible!! Back to ver.0.52; get upto 60-70kmh driver up a bank and - hold thight 'cause round [and round] we go!! (Give that a go in the demo.) Another thing missing is an analouge clutch... Please tell me it will be modelled - it is a must!!?! Then there's the sound.. or in some instances, lack of. The Mini do sound correct at one point... that being under power/load between apx. 3500 - 5000 rpm. That is the only time it soounds resonably correct. The other times it sound either like a V8 dragster (1-2000 rpm no load) or like a sewing-machine.. (5500 rpm+) Actual recordings or not.. I *know* how a Mini should sound, and this is not it. Oh.. and what happend to the straight cut gearbox?? Inside the car - that is the sound you hear above anything else! Then there's the lack of sound when you watch the replay.... Why is it so hard to make a car simulator sound like one?? Why do we have to listen to birds sing or crowds clapping/cheering?? Anyone that's attended a rally know that the first sign you get of a car approaching - is the sound! You'll hear this miles before you even see the car! I want cars to sound *LOUD*!! Driving fast on a gravel road (espacially loose gravel) usually also make quite a lot of noice... another missing thing. Another thing thats really annoys me - is the co-driver; "Next time say on the track Pleeeeaase" ???? Talk about a lame character!! Who on earth wrote his script? Other problems is that "he" never give out any distance-figures, is way to slow in calling out the pace-notes and need to get his priorites sorted.. (rock's beside the road is not important compared to a blind sharp left-hander behind a crest when you're flat out in 4th!!) Please make the pacenotes atleast seem real.. As for those symbols/pacenotes being displayed on top of the screen... I sure wish I could get rid of 'em. (Look at Rally Championship - it got the best pace-note system (and notes) to date imho.) Then there's the replay system; it will get better - right? I mean.. those track-side cameras are so uncontrollable/unpredictable.. I really hope we'll see cameras track-side thru-out the stage. ? Last but not least... as an avid Mini fan.. I must ofcourse nit-pick on a few "small" flaws in the modelling of this great car: - ground-clearance too high - wheels too big - should be 10" - car generally look out of proportion compared to the real McCoy.. too high and narrow. - front door hinges (exterior) are missing - door-hinges to boot-lid should be red. - exhaust-pipe way too big.. dia. should be 2" max! - right side fuel-tank and fuel-cap is missing! - spare tire in the backseat... it should be in the boot (no room for it in the back-seat) - Halda Tripmaster is on the complete wrong side or the car - it is used by the co-driver!! Btw., I hope a frame-rate counter/checker will be included in the final version? Same goes for exporting results btw. On a good note.. The demo is indeed using a better 3d-engine... with a lot higher framerate.. Especially during replay. Other points I have noticed is easier menu navigation and such. My big concern tho, is that unless these things have been looked at allready - they probably wont be fixed before the release - due to lack of time :-( I hope they'll will make 'RT' more editable than it is tho... the compressed package formats used so far can prove hard to "crack". That way we can either fix some ourselfs or make our own add-ons cars, tracks and rallies.. and by so ensure the longlivety of it all.. (How many here would still race GPL had there not been any add-ons?) 1 week ago Rally Thropy was on my "must have" list - right now, I'm not that sure.. - I think there are a few things I'd like answered before I willing to depart with my hard earned cash. Guys? -- Ed Solheim The GPLEA -------------------------------------- - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. Spell it, please. - E-F-R. No, no, spell your name. - E-F-R!

The physics are clearly all wrong. The fact that I could drive the car immediately, and started having great fun within a couple of runs proves it so. :) I still think it's a must-have, even if it isn't GPL on gravel.

I don't know about the GPL on gravel its a entirely different type of sim. I will tell you it took the place of GPL but can't quite unseat Nascar 4 but hey, what can? "BadDog" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%t6A7.13905$[email hidden]... > The physics are clearly all wrong. The fact that I could drive the car > immediately, and started having great fun within a couple of runs provesit > so. :) > > I still think it's a must-have, even if it isn't GPL on gravel. > >

> The physics are clearly all wrong. The fact that I could drive the car > immediately, and started having great fun within a couple of runs provesit > so. :) Exactly. Anyone whose driven a car knows that they are virtually impossible to control.

Phew! Not messing around :P

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>Having tested both the '0.52 preview' version and the demo, I must admit >that I'm actually quite disappointed about the latter. For several reasons: > >Sure the Mini is fun to drive and it all look stunning.. BUT (big but) it >just feels so wrong compared to the earlier version I tested.. (in case you >missed it... I made a preview-movie of 'RT' some time ago.. (43mb - >3min40ish - DivX) ( http://home.online.no/~igplc ) > >First of all let me say that I am aware that the 3 cars in the preview was >all RWD while the Mini is ofcourse a FWD car. Having owned and raced a Mini >over several years I think there is something *very* wrong with the FWD and >certainly the Mini physics. I have been "on the edge" (and beyond!) with a >mini several times and there are certain things you *never* do with a FWD >car... among them is going *off* the throttle when you got the car is >sliding with opposite lock - it will "come back at ya" with a snap!! Big >time! >If you get into a slide - there's only one way to get out of it.. and that >is to get the pedal to the metal and make the car "pull" itself straght >again. Go of the throttle and you'll get a contra-slide instantly. Try >this in the demo and you'll see that the car just "plows" staight on... just >like a understeering cow. >

The Mini seemed to have a hell of a lot of understeer, and take a lot of work to get it to turn in. I've never driven a mini myself, so I can't compare with reality, but it did SEEM to be very understeery.

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>Secondly... the physics - have they been changed? For the *worse* I mean? >To me the physics in the demo both feel and look a lot simpler and "easier" >than the 0.52 preview. I've just been comparing the two and I must say that >either the physics have been made easier (to boost sales?) or someone's >modelled the Mini with a centre of gravity well below ground.. I've just >spendt 10 minutes trying to roll the damn thing - and it's virtually >impossible!! Back to ver.0.52; get upto 60-70kmh driver up a bank and - >hold thight 'cause round [and round] we go!! (Give that a go in the demo.) >

Having not tried the beta, I've no idea how that drove. But I was very pleased with the RT physics, the best rally sim yet IMO. Maybe I would've been even more impressed with the beta? I thought it was extremely challenging, but not overly difficult to scare people off ala GPL. >Another thing missing is an analouge clutch... Please tell me it will be >modelled - it is a must!!?! A clutch is always handy :D

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> >Then there's the sound.. or in some instances, lack of. >The Mini do sound correct at one point... that being under power/load >between apx. 3500 - 5000 rpm. That is the only time it soounds resonably >correct. The other times it sound either like a V8 dragster (1-2000 rpm no >load) or like a sewing-machine.. (5500 rpm+) Actual recordings or not.. I >*know* how a Mini should sound, and this is not it. Oh.. and what happend to >the straight cut gearbox?? Inside the car - that is the sound you hear >above anything else! >

I thought the sound was reasonable - not sensational, but not bad at all. Gravel scrubbing sounds, the whole bit sounded great, but the engine was only OK. Sounds are always subject to so much personal opinion, a developer will NEVER be able to keep everyone happy.

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>Then there's the lack of sound when you watch the replay.... Why is it so >hard to make a car simulator sound like one?? Why do we have to listen to >birds sing or crowds clapping/cheering?? Anyone that's attended a rally know >that the first sign you get of a car approaching - is the sound! You'll hear >this miles before you even see the car! I want cars to sound *LOUD*!! >Driving fast on a gravel road (espacially loose gravel) usually also make >quite a lot of noice... another missing thing.

That is a very annoying thing, surely the replay can keep the same sounds as the actual racing. Why should it change? I thought the camera angles were good, swapping between onboard, external, etc. was a good idea. All should be controllable, of course, but an "auto" camera setup like that is a good idea.

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> >Another thing thats really annoys me - is the co-driver; "Next time say on >the track Pleeeeaase" ???? Talk about a lame character!! Who on earth wrote >his script? >Other problems is that "he" never give out any distance-figures, is way to >slow in calling out the pace-notes and need to get his priorites sorted.. >(rock's beside the road is not important compared to a blind sharp >left-hander behind a crest when you're flat out in 4th!!) Please make the >pacenotes atleast seem real.. >

No distance estimates is a bit of a bummer, but they're so close to the next corner that you don't need distance calls! :P As far as the co-driver speech goes, a bit of humour is a great thing. He kept me laughing for a while, and the friends I've shown the demo have had a good laugh as well. A good thing IMO. >As for those symbols/pacenotes being displayed on top of the screen... I >sure wish I could get rid of 'em. (Look at Rally Championship - it got the >best pace-note system (and notes) to date imho.) I don't mind them personnally, but they should be switchable I guess. All adds to development time though doesn't it? And we know how long WSC has been taking... > >Then there's the replay system; it will get better - right? I mean.. those >track-side cameras are so uncontrollable/unpredictable.. I really hope >we'll see cameras track-side thru-out the stage. ? >Like I said before...

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>Last but not least... as an avid Mini fan.. I must ofcourse nit-pick on a >few "small" flaws in the modelling of this great car: > >- ground-clearance too high >- wheels too big - should be 10" >- car generally look out of proportion compared to the real McCoy.. too high >and narrow. >- front door hinges (exterior) are missing >- door-hinges to boot-lid should be red. >- exhaust-pipe way too big.. dia. should be 2" max! >- right side fuel-tank and fuel-cap is missing! >- spare tire in the backseat... it should be in the boot (no room for it in >the back-seat) >- Halda Tripmaster is on the complete wrong side or the car - it is used by >the co-driver!!

It's all nice to have a 100% perfectly modelled car, full historically identical, but for me, I'd rather have more time spent on playability, physics, setups, tracks, etc. It's looks pretty good to me (as a non-mini fan) and I honestly would not have been able to tell the difference. But as I said, the development time could go throught the roof if you spent forever getting it every single aspect perfect. I think they've done very well, haven't skimped on any major area too much, and it does seem like a GPL-on-gravel challenger to me, just from the demo. > >Btw., I hope a frame-rate counter/checker will be included in the final >version? Same goes for exporting results btw. >Frame rate counter is something I would also appreciate. >On a good note.. The demo is indeed using a better 3d-engine... with a lot >higher framerate.. Especially during replay. Other points I have noticed is >easier menu navigation and such. Graphics are indeed sensational, and it runs very well on my system as well (despite a simple V3)

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> >My big concern tho, is that unless these things have been looked at >allready - they probably wont be fixed before the release - due to lack of >time :-( I hope they'll will make 'RT' more editable than it is tho... the >compressed package formats used so far can prove hard to "crack". That way >we can either fix some ourselfs or make our own add-ons cars, tracks and >rallies.. and by so ensure the longlivety of it all.. (How many here would >still race GPL had there not been any add-ons?) > >1 week ago Rally Thropy was on my "must have" list - right now, I'm not that >sure.. - I think there are a few things I'd like answered before I willing >to depart with my hard earned cash. > >Guys?

Still on my "must have"list, the demo has only reconfirmed it for me. It sounds like the physics are a bit of a let-down for you from the beta, but for a first time drive with the demo for me, I've been nothing less than impressed with a very nice sim. Things like updated car models, sounds, etc. are much better left to the add on crowd later on, as long as the physics and game base are there. And they do seem to be there. I'll be forking out for it anyway :D Rafe Mc

Hi Ed, you might indeed be right, the physics might be different from the preview version, but I can't compare as I've only seen the demo. What I can say is that perhaps it's not the physics that has issues, but just a few parameters that vary from version to version, and from the game to real life. The first one is the control setup/feedback. In demo, even at the lowest settings, the steering is perhaps too sensitive. I noticed that letting go off the gas may produce an understeer when the wheel is turned, but that is because the front wheels are travelling so much sideways that letting go of the accelerator actually effectively locks the front wheels. The same thing I observed in my own car in the snow when I had no idea of how to properly drive (I probably still don't ;) ). In a real car (unless you are as incompetent as myself) you'd never turn the front wheels into the turn as much as you do in the demo, and that may be a source of your discrepancies. The next thing to consider is whether you are talking of loose or just dirty surfaces. On loose surfaces, the car should be more responsive even at extreme attitudes due to the characteristics of the force vs. slip response on such materials. In the demo it appears that the loose component is very small, it feels more like a low grip surface. Therefore the car may not dig in the way you would expect it too but just understeer into the scenery. Of course, you might be entirely right, but I would just like to make sure that whatever criticism you level at the sim is done from a proper reference point and taking many considerations into account, as relating real life to a sim experience isn't quite straightforward. But taking a short step back and looking at what Rally Trophy does in relation to what it is trying to achieve I'm sure most will agree it does that superbly (at least the demo does :) ). It's by far the most realistic handling rally sim out there, even though it might not correspond spec to spec to real life, but which sim does? Graphically and auraly it's tough to beat as well. It's also very cheeky and has great atmosphere. It's one of the great surprises of this year and not embracing would be ludicrous. -Gregor Ed Solheim wrote:

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> > [NOTE: This is another copy or my post on the Rally Trophy furoms at High > Gear and JoWood] > > Having tested both the '0.52 preview' version and the demo, I must admit > that I'm actually quite disappointed about the latter. For several reasons: >

<snip>

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> -- > Ed Solheim > The GPLEA > -------------------------------------- > - My name is Elliott Forbes Robinson. > Spell it, please. > - E-F-R. > No, no, spell your name. > - E-F-R!

>"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote > Having not tried the beta, I've no idea how that drove. But I was very > pleased with the RT physics, the best rally sim yet IMO. It's a shame that the "best rally sim yet" gives you the ability to do incredibly fast laptimes by keeping the throttle at 100% for the whole 5 kilometers of your run. Even in CMR2 you need to lift the throttle sometimes. Yeah, I know, it's a FWD, it's a mini and it's just a demo, but it's still not realistic. Also, 0-100km/h in 7.2 seconds. That's a little too fast on gravel, no? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:19:24 -0400, "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>>"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote >> Having not tried the beta, I've no idea how that drove. But I was very >> pleased with the RT physics, the best rally sim yet IMO. > > > >It's a shame that the "best rally sim yet" gives you the ability to do >incredibly fast laptimes by keeping the throttle at 100% for the whole 5 >kilometers of your run. Even in CMR2 you need to lift the throttle >sometimes. Yeah, I know, it's a FWD, it's a mini and it's just a demo, but >it's still not realistic.

You also take the '5' corners with full throttle? I have a problem taking those corners correctly.. no way I can take the corner at full speed. When I press the brakes only a bit I can't steer anymore, so trailbraking is out of the question. But the weird thing is, when I tap the brakes strongly and release them, it takes a couple of seconds too before I can steer again.. best technique I found so far is to brake way before the corner, release the brakes before the corner, and accelerate again in the corner.. the car only seems to be able to turn when I give gas. Something wrong with my calibration or is this normal Mini behaviour? Andre

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:49:48 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote:

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>On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:19:24 -0400, "ymenard" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>>"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote >>> Having not tried the beta, I've no idea how that drove. But I was very >>> pleased with the RT physics, the best rally sim yet IMO. >> >> >> >>It's a shame that the "best rally sim yet" gives you the ability to do >>incredibly fast laptimes by keeping the throttle at 100% for the whole 5 >>kilometers of your run. Even in CMR2 you need to lift the throttle >>sometimes. Yeah, I know, it's a FWD, it's a mini and it's just a demo, but >>it's still not realistic. > >You also take the '5' corners with full throttle? I have a problem >taking those corners correctly.. no way I can take the corner at full >speed.

Same here...

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>When I press the brakes only a bit I can't steer anymore, so >trailbraking is out of the question. But the weird thing is, when I >tap the brakes strongly and release them, it takes a couple of seconds >too before I can steer again.. best technique I found so far is to >brake way before the corner, release the brakes before the corner, and >accelerate again in the corner.. the car only seems to be able to turn >when I give gas.

I too find the brakes *very* sensitive and *very* easy to lock up. They also seem slow to release, as you mention. My technique for the very slow corners is to use extremely gentle braking. It seems to give enough retardation, without locking the wheels. For the faster corners, a quick dab of the brakes while turning in will point the car in the right direction (usually). This is with the gas on full the whole time. >Something wrong with my calibration or is this normal Mini behaviour? The only Mini I've ever driven wasn;t mine, and the owner was sitting next to me. I didn;t get to try such techniques :-( If it's a calibration problem, sounds like I have it too! Ian -- Ian Riches GPL Rank +2.36 Monsters of GPL +296.53

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> You also take the '5' corners with full throttle? I have a problem > taking those corners correctly.. no way I can take the corner at full > speed. > When I press the brakes only a bit I can't steer anymore, so > trailbraking is out of the question. But the weird thing is, when I > tap the brakes strongly and release them, it takes a couple of seconds > too before I can steer again.. best technique I found so far is to > brake way before the corner, release the brakes before the corner, and > accelerate again in the corner.. the car only seems to be able to turn > when I give gas. > Something wrong with my calibration or is this normal Mini behaviour?

Andre -- Why both using the brake at all? I can't configure my Redline brake pedal, so I just lift to slow down. Why is the controller configuration sooooooo bad? Have they never seen GPL's? Gerry

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:37:36 +0100, Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote: >Why is the controller configuration sooooooo bad? Have they never seen >GPL's? > >Gerry Maybe Papy got a copyright on a decent working calibration system? Andre

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:02:21 +0200, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:37:36 +0100, Gerry Aitken ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Why is the controller configuration sooooooo bad? Have they never seen >>GPL's? >> >>Gerry > >Maybe Papy got a copyright on a decent working calibration system?

Probably Unisys has got a patent on 'configuration' screens. :) Anyway, I moved my sim over to DX8 yesterday, and it turned out to be a battle against Microsofts ongoing changing API's without telling you what has changed (almost everything did). One of the changes was... Action Maps. Very handy, yes, another layer of indirection (MS is good at that to hide f*ckups in previous API incarnations), which allows you to declare virtual controls; steer right, steer left, instead of X+, X-. The virtual controls are done by DirectInput. The greenishly looking config screen I get when I select 'configure controller' is the MS DX8 DirectInput one (I hate it when I move out of the app back into the desktop; it ruins the feeling, but well). That allows you to map controls to actions. All ofcourse to make things easier, but after reading up on that I think it's too far off for most people. You just want a pedal that is the throttle, and indicate that, without wandering through pages of virtual actions, wondering which ones you want, if you did all of them. I'll stop the rant here, I just had a VERY bad time rereading lots of the DirectInput documents and stepping through example code from the start, because otherwise I couldn't get a simple DX8 conversion to compile, or even run. :( It's slightly better now, after 2-3 hours of work, and boy, do I feel lucky I never use DirectX code directly in my application code; that would have been the end of it. Have a nice day. :) Ruud van Gaal Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Now, now, haven't you learned by now about all the expert super drivers in this group and the amazing feats they can accomplish :) I been doing race sims since Papys first and still feel like a newbie against these Super simmers. I also must use the brake.........lame huh? "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:19:24 -0400, "ymenard" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >>"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote > >> Having not tried the beta, I've no idea how that drove. But I was very > >> pleased with the RT physics, the best rally sim yet IMO. > > > > > > > >It's a shame that the "best rally sim yet" gives you the ability to do > >incredibly fast laptimes by keeping the throttle at 100% for the whole 5 > >kilometers of your run. Even in CMR2 you need to lift the throttle > >sometimes. Yeah, I know, it's a FWD, it's a mini and it's just a demo,

but

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> >it's still not realistic. > > You also take the '5' corners with full throttle? I have a problem > taking those corners correctly.. no way I can take the corner at full > speed. > When I press the brakes only a bit I can't steer anymore, so > trailbraking is out of the question. But the weird thing is, when I > tap the brakes strongly and release them, it takes a couple of seconds > too before I can steer again.. best technique I found so far is to > brake way before the corner, release the brakes before the corner, and > accelerate again in the corner.. the car only seems to be able to turn > when I give gas. > Something wrong with my calibration or is this normal Mini behaviour? > > Andre

Now, now, haven't you learned by now about all the expert super drivers in this group and the amazing feats they can accomplish :) I been doing race sims since Papys first and still feel like a newbie against these Super simmers. I also must use the brake.........lame huh? "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:19:24 -0400, "ymenard" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >>"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote > >> Having not tried the beta, I've no idea how that drove. But I was very > >> pleased with the RT physics, the best rally sim yet IMO. > > > > > > > >It's a shame that the "best rally sim yet" gives you the ability to do > >incredibly fast laptimes by keeping the throttle at 100% for the whole 5 > >kilometers of your run. Even in CMR2 you need to lift the throttle > >sometimes. Yeah, I know, it's a FWD, it's a mini and it's just a demo,

but

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> >it's still not realistic. > > You also take the '5' corners with full throttle? I have a problem > taking those corners correctly.. no way I can take the corner at full > speed. > When I press the brakes only a bit I can't steer anymore, so > trailbraking is out of the question. But the weird thing is, when I > tap the brakes strongly and release them, it takes a couple of seconds > too before I can steer again.. best technique I found so far is to > brake way before the corner, release the brakes before the corner, and > accelerate again in the corner.. the car only seems to be able to turn > when I give gas. > Something wrong with my calibration or is this normal Mini behaviour? > > Andre

Now, now, haven't you learned by now about all the expert super drivers in this group and the amazing feats they can accomplish :) I been doing race sims since Papys first and still feel like a newbie against these Super simmers. I also must use the brake.........lame huh? "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:19:24 -0400, "ymenard" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >>"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote > >> Having not tried the beta, I've no idea how that drove. But I was very > >> pleased with the RT physics, the best rally sim yet IMO. > > > > > > > >It's a shame that the "best rally sim yet" gives you the ability to do > >incredibly fast laptimes by keeping the throttle at 100% for the whole 5 > >kilometers of your run. Even in CMR2 you need to lift the throttle > >sometimes. Yeah, I know, it's a FWD, it's a mini and it's just a demo,

but

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> >it's still not realistic. > > You also take the '5' corners with full throttle? I have a problem > taking those corners correctly.. no way I can take the corner at full > speed. > When I press the brakes only a bit I can't steer anymore, so > trailbraking is out of the question. But the weird thing is, when I > tap the brakes strongly and release them, it takes a couple of seconds > too before I can steer again.. best technique I found so far is to > brake way before the corner, release the brakes before the corner, and > accelerate again in the corner.. the car only seems to be able to turn > when I give gas. > Something wrong with my calibration or is this normal Mini behaviour? > > Andre

Now, now, haven't you learned by now about all the expert super drivers in this group and the amazing feats they can accomplish :) I been doing race sims since Papys first and still feel like a newbie against these Super simmers. I also must use the brake.........lame huh? "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:19:24 -0400, "ymenard" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >>"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote > >> Having not tried the beta, I've no idea how that drove. But I was very > >> pleased with the RT physics, the best rally sim yet IMO. > > > > > > > >It's a shame that the "best rally sim yet" gives you the ability to do > >incredibly fast laptimes by keeping the throttle at 100% for the whole 5 > >kilometers of your run. Even in CMR2 you need to lift the throttle > >sometimes. Yeah, I know, it's a FWD, it's a mini and it's just a demo,

but

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> >it's still not realistic. > > You also take the '5' corners with full throttle? I have a problem > taking those corners correctly.. no way I can take the corner at full > speed. > When I press the brakes only a bit I can't steer anymore, so > trailbraking is out of the question. But the weird thing is, when I > tap the brakes strongly and release them, it takes a couple of seconds > too before I can steer again.. best technique I found so far is to > brake way before the corner, release the brakes before the corner, and > accelerate again in the corner.. the car only seems to be able to turn > when I give gas. > Something wrong with my calibration or is this normal Mini behaviour? > > Andre