Act Labs Performance Pedals review

Just received my new pedals today,thought I'd give a quick review. Looks:They look excellent. :-) Like they came from Momo.Super smooth finish,zero burrs,machined aluminum. A+ Feel: Finally some pedals that feel substantial.Very progressive resistance,with the throttle having a smooth,long throw,easy to modulate and control wheelspin.The brake is much stiffer,with perfect feel.It's progressive stiffness feels like a real car.Be prepared to feel a little fatigue in your calves after a long race.The clutch feels like the brake pedal,again excellent. The spacing of the pedals is good,with the gas and brake close enough to heel-toe effectively.The rubber heel base will keep your feet from sliding,it offers good grip. A Use:So far I've tried GPL,N4, and Viper Racing.With these new pedals,the immersion factor is taken to a new level.VR is a whole new sim using the progressive clutch,something I hope more developers start doing.I'm really surprised what Act Labs has done with these new pedals.It's obvious they did some real homework before they settled on the finished design,making the long wait well worth it!Way to go guys! Dave K Disclaimer:I don't work for Act Labs,nor do I know anyone who works for them,and I'm not being paid for this review. ;-)

I just got my set dropped on my door this morning as well.. I agree with your comments 100%.. Simply the best set of pedals I have ever used... And they can be used with ANY wheel.. Awesome... "Dave K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Just received my new pedals today,thought I'd give a quick review. > > Looks:They look excellent. :-) Like they came from Momo.Super smooth > finish,zero burrs,machined aluminum. A+ > > Feel: Finally some pedals that feel substantial.Very progressive > resistance,with the throttle having a smooth,long throw,easy to > modulate and control wheelspin.The brake is much stiffer,with perfect > feel.It's progressive stiffness feels like a real car.Be prepared to > feel a little fatigue in your calves after a long race.The clutch > feels like the brake pedal,again excellent. > The spacing of the pedals is good,with the gas and brake close enough > to heel-toe effectively.The rubber heel base will keep your feet from > sliding,it offers good grip. A > > Use:So far I've tried GPL,N4, and Viper Racing.With these new > pedals,the immersion factor is taken to a new level.VR is a whole new > sim using the progressive clutch,something I hope more developers > start doing.I'm really surprised what Act Labs has done with these new > pedals.It's obvious they did some real homework before they settled on > the finished design,making the long wait well worth it!Way to go guys! > > Dave K > > Disclaimer:I don't work for Act Labs,nor do I know anyone who works > for them,and I'm not being paid for this review. ;-)

"tsrf900r" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QS1B7.24166$%[email hidden]... > I just got my set dropped on my door this morning as well.. I agree with > your comments 100%.. Simply the best set of pedals I have ever used... And > they can be used with ANY wheel.. Awesome... >Where did you get them from? TIA.. Phillip....

Go here http://www.act-labs.com/index.htm and read all about all the neat gizmos from Act Labs. I have the Force RS and RS Shifter and love 'em. Can't wait to get my pedals. (They shipped today!) On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:41:50 +1000, "Phillip Archer" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"tsrf900r" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:QS1B7.24166$%[email hidden]... >> I just got my set dropped on my door this morning as well.. I agree with >> your comments 100%.. Simply the best set of pedals I have ever used... And >> they can be used with ANY wheel.. Awesome... >> >Where did you get them from? > TIA.. > Phillip.... > >

Remove "hi" from address or it will bounce....

Do you have any idea how hard or easy it'll be to replace the pots when the time comes? I am "mechanically challenged". Dave K wrote:

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> Just received my new pedals today,thought I'd give a quick review. > > Looks:They look excellent. :-) Like they came from Momo.Super smooth > finish,zero burrs,machined aluminum. A+ > > Feel: Finally some pedals that feel substantial.Very progressive > resistance,with the throttle having a smooth,long throw,easy to > modulate and control wheelspin.The brake is much stiffer,with perfect > feel.It's progressive stiffness feels like a real car.Be prepared to > feel a little fatigue in your calves after a long race.The clutch > feels like the brake pedal,again excellent. > The spacing of the pedals is good,with the gas and brake close enough > to heel-toe effectively.The rubber heel base will keep your feet from > sliding,it offers good grip. A > > Use:So far I've tried GPL,N4, and Viper Racing.With these new > pedals,the immersion factor is taken to a new level.VR is a whole new > sim using the progressive clutch,something I hope more developers > start doing.I'm really surprised what Act Labs has done with these new > pedals.It's obvious they did some real homework before they settled on > the finished design,making the long wait well worth it!Way to go guys! > > Dave K > > Disclaimer:I don't work for Act Labs,nor do I know anyone who works > for them,and I'm not being paid for this review. ;-)

-- Bert

Mine arent coming till Friday :( -- Free Email! http://www.onlineautoracing.com

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Just received my new pedals today,thought I'd give a quick review. <Snip> > Dave K > I just spent out on steel rims and snow tires for my car. Then got the aluminium rims refinished. Then did a stupid impulse buy and bought a 60GB hard drive. I am tapped out. STOP TEASING ME. I want to buy, I want to buy, I want to buy. I also want the Logi MOMO. (2 comps, time to maybe replace the original Logi on comp #2) And I want a new video card. This computer will be the end of me. Damn you Act-Labs, DAMN YOU!!! MRSisson, who is thinking of taking up herion as a cheaper hobby. P.S. Thanks for the review. No funnies or sarcasm. -- LOAD "GPL",8,1 RUN

On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 02:59:09 GMT, Michael R Sisson <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>In article <[email hidden]>, >[email hidden] says... >> Just received my new pedals today,thought I'd give a quick review. > ><Snip> > >> Dave K >> > >I just spent out on steel rims and snow tires for my car. Then got the >aluminium rims refinished. Then did a stupid impulse buy and bought a >60GB hard drive. > >I am tapped out. > >STOP TEASING ME. I want to buy, I want to buy, I want to buy. > >I also want the Logi MOMO. (2 comps, time to maybe replace the original >Logi on comp #2) > >And I want a new video card. > >This computer will be the end of me. > >Damn you Act-Labs, DAMN YOU!!! > > >MRSisson, who is thinking of taking up herion as a cheaper hobby. > >P.S. Thanks for the review. No funnies or sarcasm. >

What is MOMO? I'm aware of the Logitech wheel using the name, I just don't know what it means. Tony

s This oughta answer a few of your questions http://www.momo.it/ dave henrie "Tony Sante" > > What is MOMO? I'm aware of the Logitech wheel using the name, I just > don't know what it means. > > Tony

On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 21:50:52 -0400, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Do you have any idea how hard or easy it'll be to replace the pots when >the time comes? > >I am "mechanically challenged". > > >

Sorry,I haven't opened them up yet,too much fun using them. ;-)

Got mine yesterday too!! I just can't express how much I truely love this new pedals!! Now if only there a game that truely simulates the clutch action and perhaps heel-toe would actually be in affect :) Maybe I'm dreaming, but I'm still hoping for a PC version of F355 challenge, I meant dual mon setup, the AL wheel/shifter/clutch :D Dave K wrote:

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> Just received my new pedals today,thought I'd give a quick review. > > Looks:They look excellent. :-) Like they came from Momo.Super smooth > finish,zero burrs,machined aluminum. A+ > > Feel: Finally some pedals that feel substantial.Very progressive > resistance,with the throttle having a smooth,long throw,easy to > modulate and control wheelspin.The brake is much stiffer,with perfect > feel.It's progressive stiffness feels like a real car.Be prepared to > feel a little fatigue in your calves after a long race.The clutch > feels like the brake pedal,again excellent. > The spacing of the pedals is good,with the gas and brake close enough > to heel-toe effectively.The rubber heel base will keep your feet from > sliding,it offers good grip. A > > Use:So far I've tried GPL,N4, and Viper Racing.With these new > pedals,the immersion factor is taken to a new level.VR is a whole new > sim using the progressive clutch,something I hope more developers > start doing.I'm really surprised what Act Labs has done with these new > pedals.It's obvious they did some real homework before they settled on > the finished design,making the long wait well worth it!Way to go guys! > > Dave K > > Disclaimer:I don't work for Act Labs,nor do I know anyone who works > for them,and I'm not being paid for this review. ;-) >

"Dave K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Just received my new pedals today,thought I'd give a quick review. > > Looks:They look excellent. :-) Like they came from Momo.Super smooth > finish,zero burrs,machined aluminum. A+ > Has anyone tried to heel-toe shift with these things? I have a nice set of pedals, clutch included, but they're not designed to heel-toe. The offsets between the gas and brake pedals is incorrect. You should be able to roll you foot from the brake to the accelerator while depressing the brake pedal. Can this be done with the Act Lab pedals?

On Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:40:06 -0400, "AndrewS" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> > >> > >Has anyone tried to heel-toe shift with these things? I have a nice set of >pedals, clutch included, but they're not designed to heel-toe. The offsets >between the gas and brake pedals is incorrect. You should be able to roll >you foot from the brake to the accelerator while depressing the brake pedal. >Can this be done with the Act Lab pedals? >

Yes,it works perfectly.The ergonomics are right on.I've got about five hours on them now,they're excellent. :-) Dave K

Sorry Dave K.....but I can't buy your enthusiasm for these pedals! At $79 (USD) they are still plastic toys! And, while they may be good for entry level sim racing, and will probably give the TM NASCAR Pro Digital-2 pedals a run for their money, they are still a toy. Most entry level sim drivers still drive at a desk in an office chair. These pedals clearly are designed for use in a seated position ergonomically equivalent to that. I seriously doubt you can actually "heel n toe" with these pedals. The pedal throw and movement is not correct to do this except in some sort of a "playing around" fashion. Go to High Gear, look at the "overhead pedals" video again (its in the News Archive) - tell me you can use that kind of "heel n' toe" driving technique with these AL pedals - I'll eat my hat soon after! How about some sort of a seating position that resembles (ergonomically) a real race car? Can these pedals be used? I doubt it. Here's a test for you Dave: Put a 4" phone book on the floor. Sit on it. Have a friend stand behind you and lean back into his knees about 20 degrees. Have another friend put your AL pedals under your heels, and tell me you can depress all of the pedals easily without hyper-extending your foot (which will give you shin splints in about 5 laps). You can't. By the way, I've just described the seating ergonomics of a Winston Cup race car (and most stock car and sports cars I've measured). WC cars and most stock cars have the driver's butt about 4" above the heel plate at the pedals. Want to test an ergonomic seating position for an open wheel race car? Take the phone book out from under your butt. Have your friend behind you move back a little and now lean back to about 40 degrees. Leave the pedals under your heels where they are. Can you even press them at all? Most open wheel race cars have the driver's butt at equal height to the heel plate at the foot pedals. Want to test an F1 ergonomic seating position? Take the phone book and put it under the pedals, leave your butt on the floor and have your friend move back a few more inches so you are now at about 60 degrees. My guess is the only way you could press those pedals is with your heels! Most F1 cars have the drivers butt approximately 4" below the heel plate at the pedals. Come on! Everyone gets excited about getting something new. I do to. But please, let's put these new AL pedals in perspective. They are plastic toys meant for mass consumption at the CompUSA's of the world! Nothing more. If you want the realistic look and feel of real racing pedals and allowance for sim driving in realistic ergonomic positions (with home built race frames or professionally built frames and cockpits) then you still need to have something along the lines of the Red Line, TSW or BRD pedals. These are all steel and/or aluminum products and you can't reproduce that feel with plastic in any way shape or form. By the way, my hat's off to AL for "building a better mousetrap!" I have a set of these pedals coming too. But I won't be using them for my personal sim racing. I want the real deal! And, for $110 more, I get it - no plastic! BRD's new pedals system with adjustable gas-shock dampening on all three pedals, side to side adjustment of the pedal face (on all three pedals) and pedal shaft rake adjustment (on all three pedals), sealed ceramic "military grade" potentiometers - will be out in 30-days! If you think these AL pedals are the "read deal" - think again! By the way, with a screw driver and a small crescent wrench and 10 minutes, you can turn the BRD pedals upside down and use them as overhead, stockcar/sportscar style pedals too! Regards, Tom P Disclaimer: I don't work for BRD. But I do know all of the employees at BRD who build their rigs, and all of the real-world race car drivers who helped test them for BRD. And, my reputation is on the line if I recommend them since I'm going to be their USA Distributor. So, I can't afford to give out some giddy "these are my new pedals and aren't they cool" BS about them. "Dave K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Just received my new pedals today,thought I'd give a quick review. > > Looks:They look excellent. :-) Like they came from Momo.Super smooth > finish,zero burrs,machined aluminum. A+ > > Feel: Finally some pedals that feel substantial.Very progressive > resistance,with the throttle having a smooth,long throw,easy to > modulate and control wheelspin.The brake is much stiffer,with perfect > feel.It's progressive stiffness feels like a real car.Be prepared to > feel a little fatigue in your calves after a long race.The clutch > feels like the brake pedal,again excellent. > The spacing of the pedals is good,with the gas and brake close enough > to heel-toe effectively.The rubber heel base will keep your feet from > sliding,it offers good grip. A > > Use:So far I've tried GPL,N4, and Viper Racing.With these new > pedals,the immersion factor is taken to a new level.VR is a whole new > sim using the progressive clutch,something I hope more developers > start doing.I'm really surprised what Act Labs has done with these new > pedals.It's obvious they did some real homework before they settled on > the finished design,making the long wait well worth it!Way to go guys! > > Dave K > > Disclaimer:I don't work for Act Labs,nor do I know anyone who works > for them,and I'm not being paid for this review. ;-)

Sorry Tom.....but that was a bit over the top. Act Labs are clearly going after a different price point (and market segment) than BRD, and no doubt they will not be as chi-chi as something that costs twice as much (or more). I don't have any AL stuff myself, but it's well-regarded in its segment. Besides, I'd wager it's probably going to the best set of $79 stand-alone pedals on the market ;-), so it makes no sense to knock them. Kinda like criticizing a Prelude for not being a 911 Carrera. Both good, and both what their makers intended them to be. And speaking as a consumer, more sim goodies at ALL price points is a good thing; even for BRD and its distributors. Cheers, SB "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote... > Sorry Dave K.....but I can't buy your enthusiasm for these pedals!<snip>

560On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 03:13:02 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Sorry Dave K.....but I can't buy your enthusiasm for these pedals! That's right!I have no financial stake invested,I'm not profiting in any way,shape or form,just giving my opinion. ;-) > >At $79 (USD) they are still plastic toys! Actually,it was $60 .

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> And, while they may be good for >entry level sim racing, and will probably give the TM NASCAR Pro Digital-2 >pedals a run for their money, they are still a toy. Most entry level sim >drivers still drive at a desk in an office chair. These pedals clearly are >designed for use in a seated position ergonomically equivalent to that. I >seriously doubt you can actually "heel n toe" with these pedals. The pedal >throw and movement is not correct to do this except in some sort of a >"playing around" fashion. Go to High Gear, look at the "overhead pedals" >video again (its in the News Archive) - tell me you can use that kind of >"heel n' toe" driving technique with these AL pedals - I'll eat my hat soon >after!

What kind of hat is your favorite flavor? ;-) > >How about some sort of a seating position that resembles (ergonomically) a >real race car? Can these pedals be used? I doubt it.Again,these are NOT designed to go into a real race car.They are designed to be used by us average folks who don't own a $15,000 real simulation cockpit.I'm guessing that's about 99.2% of the market place.

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> >Here's a test for you Dave: > >Put a 4" phone book on the floor. Sit on it. Have a friend stand behind >you and lean back into his knees about 20 degrees. Have another friend put >your AL pedals under your heels, and tell me you can depress all of the >pedals easily without hyper-extending your foot (which will give you shin >splints in about 5 laps). You can't. By the way, I've just described the >seating ergonomics of a Winston Cup race car (and most stock car and sports >cars I've measured). WC cars and most stock cars have the driver's butt >about 4" above the heel plate at the pedals.

How many people at home use this setup?Again,Act Labs is not targeting the "Professional" (?) sim racers that make up .008% of the marketplace.

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> >Want to test an ergonomic seating position for an open wheel race car? Take >the phone book out from under your butt. Have your friend behind you move >back a little and now lean back to about 40 degrees. Leave the pedals under >your heels where they are. Can you even press them at all? Most open wheel >race cars have the driver's butt at equal height to the heel plate at the >foot pedals.

Again,they are not designed to go into a real race car. > >Want to test an F1 ergonomic seating position? Take the phone book and put >it under the pedals, leave your butt on the floor and have your friend move >back a few more inches so you are now at about 60 degrees. My guess is the >only way you could press those pedals is with your heels! Most F1 cars have >the drivers butt approximately 4" below the heel plate at the pedals.Damn!You mean I can't retrofit them into my authentic Ferrari,Michael Schumacher signature,professional sim racing cockpit?I guess all my hopes of one day racing against Schumacher are dashed. :( > >Come on! Everyone gets excited about getting something new. I do to. But >please, let's put these new AL pedals in perspective. Perspective?Like sitting stationary in front of a monitor?Like not feeling any G forces?Like not risking any harm to yourself?

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> They are plastic toys >meant for mass consumption at the CompUSA's of the world! Nothing more. If >you want the realistic look and feel of real racing pedals and allowance for >sim driving in realistic ergonomic positions (with home built race frames or >professionally built frames and cockpits) then you still need to have >something along the lines of the Red Line, TSW or BRD pedals. These are all >steel and/or aluminum products and you can't reproduce that feel with >plastic in any way shape or form. > >By the way, my hat's off to AL for "building a better mousetrap!" I have a >set of these pedals coming too. But I won't be using them for my personal >sim racing. I want the real deal! And, for $110 more, I get it - no >plastic

Great!If you find something that works for you,wonderful!I'm just expressing my opinion. > >BRD's new pedals system with adjustable gas-shock dampening on all three >pedals, side to side adjustment of the pedal face (on all three pedals) and >pedal shaft rake adjustment (on all three pedals), sealed ceramic "military >grade" potentiometers - will be out in 30-days! If you think these AL >pedals are the "read deal" - think again!No,the real deal exist outside,away from the computer.Having grown up racing since the age of five,there's is no comparison between ANY form of sim racing,and the real thing.Again,perspective?You're sitting stationary in front of a monitor,on your ass,not feeling any G forces,not risking anything.Instead of spending $6000 on sim racing equipment,I'd rather go race my 125cc shifter kart.I guess I'm not a "serious sim racer" then,oh well. ;-) > By the way, with a screw driver >and a small crescent wrench and 10 minutes, you can turn the BRD pedals >upside down and use them as overhead, stockcar/sportscar style pedals too! >They sound very cool.I'm hope BRD does well with them.

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>Regards, > >Tom P > >Disclaimer: I don't work for BRD. But I do know all of the employees at >BRD who build their rigs, and all of the real-world race car drivers who >helped test them for BRD. And, my reputation is on the line if I recommend >them since I'm going to be their USA Distributor. So, I can't afford to >give out some giddy "these are my new pedals and aren't they cool" BS about >them.

Dave K (not a professional sim racer) But I do have perspective. :-)

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> > > > >"Dave K" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> Just received my new pedals today,thought I'd give a quick review. >> >> Looks:They look excellent. :-) Like they came from Momo.Super smooth >> finish,zero burrs,machined aluminum. A+ >> >> Feel: Finally some pedals that feel substantial.Very progressive >> resistance,with the throttle having a smooth,long throw,easy to >> modulate and control wheelspin.The brake is much stiffer,with perfect >> feel.It's progressive stiffness feels like a real car.Be prepared to >> feel a little fatigue in your calves after a long race.The clutch >> feels like the brake pedal,again excellent. >> The spacing of the pedals is good,with the gas and brake close enough >> to heel-toe effectively.The rubber heel base will keep your feet from >> sliding,it offers good grip. A >> >> Use:So far I've tried GPL,N4, and Viper Racing.With these new >> pedals,the immersion factor is taken to a new level.VR is a whole new >> sim using the progressive clutch,something I hope more developers >> start doing.I'm really surprised what Act Labs has done with these new >> pedals.It's obvious they did some real homework before they settled on >> the finished design,making the long wait well worth it!Way to go guys! >> >> Dave K >> >> Disclaimer:I don't work for Act Labs,nor do I know anyone who works >> for them,and I'm not being paid for this review. ;-) >

Gosh Steve, I think I did say all those "good things" you said about the AL pedals. I even said I bought a set of them. I did not knock them in any way, nor did I criticize AL either. I don't think calling the new AL pedals "entry level" is being critical of them. I think its "calling a spade a spade" and that is not what Dave K was doing. If you go back and read his post again, you'll see he makes reference several times to these new pedals being the best out there, by inference ("[They look] Like they came from Momo.Super smooth finish,zero burrs,machined aluminum. A+" -or- "Finally some pedals that feel substantial." -or- "The brake is much stiffer,with perfect feel.It's progressive stiffness feels like a real car."] Isn't that a little "over the top" too, Steve? All of those statements would tend to make one believe these were the only pedals on the market that had these attributes. Especially to somebody that was new to sim racing (many of whom come to this newsgroup every day). Clearly, Dave never has used any of the high-end, non-retail consumption pedals made by ECCI, BRD, Red Line or others (which doesn't make him a bad guy, just a little over-zealous with his praise and comparisons). I was simply trying to "balance" his statements about the new AL pedals with a broader perspective....particularly for new sim drivers. I also think the fact that those pedals can not readily be used in anything other than an upright "desk chair" sitting position is an important fact about them that deserved airing. Again, particularly for new sim drivers. I also did not try to hide the fact that I do have (eventually) a financial stake in the BRD pedals and controls. That at least allows the reader an opportunity to view my statements with his/her own dash of salt. I could have easily omitted that fact - and that would have been unfair (to both AL and Dave). And, I have stated in this newsgroup many times that the quality of the sim racing products for entry level sim drivers is critical to this "e-sport" having an opportunity to grow and expand. So, on that point, I think we clearly agree. BRD will certainly get their fair share of the marketplace, based on the merits of their product(s). That is how it should be. To the extent that better entry level sim racing products will expand that marketplace, all of us at BRD are grateful for the new AL pedals and applaud AL for their design and price point. I don't see how I was out of line, or "over the top" in trying to balance Dave's statements with a broader perspective. Maybe I could have done a better job of it? Regards, Tom "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WJrB7.112910$[email hidden]... > Sorry Tom.....but that was a bit over the top. Act Labs are clearly goingafter a different price point (and market segment) than > BRD, and no doubt they will not be as chi-chi as something that coststwice as much (or more). I don't have any AL stuff myself, > but it's well-regarded in its segment. Besides, I'd wager it's probablygoing to the best set of $79 stand-alone pedals on the > market ;-), so it makes no sense to knock them. Kinda like criticizing aPrelude for not being a 911 Carrera. Both good, and both > what their makers intended them to be. And speaking as a consumer, moresim goodies at ALL price points is a good thing; even for

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> BRD and its distributors. > > Cheers, > > SB > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote... > > Sorry Dave K.....but I can't buy your enthusiasm for these pedals! > <snip> > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gfuB7.63649$[email hidden]... > Gosh Steve, I think I did say all those "good things" you said about theAL > pedals. I even said I bought a set of them. I did not knock them in any > way, nor did I criticize AL either. By calling them "toys" you did just that...

By calling them "toys" you did just that...

> What is MOMO? I'm aware of the Logitech wheel using the name, I just > don't know what it means. MOMO are one of the leading manufacturers of aftermarket steering wheels. They produce racing wheels for Ferrari F1 amongst many others. Andy -- PC-Based Multimedia System http://www.andylaurence.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/pcbmms NB: Spamtrap - my name @yahoo.co.uk

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gfuB7.63649$[email hidden]... > Gosh Steve, I think I did say all those "good things" you said about theAL > pedals. I even said I bought a set of them. I did not knock them in any > way, nor did I criticize AL either. Tom you were a little over the top in your criticism. The AL pedals may be toys and may not be in the same league as the BRD pedals, but most of us don't want anything more. I share you enthusiasm for BRD products. I strongly considered purchasing one of their wheels a couple of years ago. When I visited their web site earlier today I see that the exact same products are available for purchase. They still don't have a force feedback wheel which they were developing and evaluating. There is still no mention of the new pedals on their web site. It's the same two year old web site with a new design. Yes I've seen your movie of the the new pedals, but as far as BRD goes.... Where the hell are they? Much like the West brothers, it's time to put up or shut up. Act Labs has brought their product to market, BRD has not.

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote... <snip> > Maybe I could have done a better job of it? < I say so; but no biggie, Tom. And anyway; having people on r.a.s. getting overzealous about their favored brand of NEW dedicated sim pedals is a good sign (besides being less annoying than the usual vid-card/F1 game flame wars.) Bring on the hardware, BAYBEE..... ;-) SB

Tom Pabst wrote: > Disclaimer: I don't work for BRD. But I do know all of the employees at > BRD who build their rigs, and all of the real-world race car drivers who > helped test them for BRD. And, my reputation is on the line if I recommend > them since I'm going to be their USA Distributor. So, I can't afford to > give out some giddy "these are my new pedals and aren't they cool" BS about > them. Tom -- can you tell BRD that their site doesn't open with netscape please? Gerry

Tom Pabst wrote: > Clearly, Dave never has used any of the high-end, non-retail consumption > pedals made by > ECCI, Not even available to the public last time I enquired. > BRD, What the old ones? Come on, they really are crap. > Red Line Great pedals, I have a set. I did have to wait quite a long time for them, but it was worth it. Have you tried them Tom? >or others What 'others'? TSW? Do you think you could sit on a phone book and depress them without hyper extension of the foot? >(which doesn't make him a bad > guy, just a little over-zealous with his praise and comparisons). And he did some 'comparisons' with what pedals? I don't think he compared them with anything, did he? He just said how good he thought they were. > I was > simply trying to "balance" his statements about the new AL pedals with a > broader perspective....particularly for new sim drivers. What, by calling them plastic toys? Is a LWFF (the old one) a plastic toy? > I also think the > fact that those pedals can not readily be used in anything other than an > upright "desk chair" sitting position is an important fact about them that > deserved airing. So the end user might need to put a wedge under them, is that a killer? > Again, particularly for new sim drivers. So new sim drivers are particularly bad at adjusting stuff to suit themselves, are they? > I also did not try to hide the fact that I do have (eventually) a financial > stake in the BRD pedals and controls. That at least allows the reader an > opportunity to view my statements with his/her own dash of salt. I could > have easily omitted that fact - and that would have been unfair (to both AL > and Dave). No you couldn't have 'easily omitted that fact' because I for one would have mentioned it for you if you had 'omitted' it. > And, I have stated in this newsgroup many times that the quality > of the sim racing products for entry level sim drivers is critical to this > "e-sport" having an opportunity to grow and expand. So, on that point, I > think we clearly agree. Agreed, by law shops should only be allowed to sell ECCI and BRD. > BRD will certainly get their fair share of the marketplace, based on the > merits of their product(s). I think their old stuff is crap. I was one of their first customers btw, back in 96. Since then they've concentrated on high end cockpits and sim frames. The design of their old stuff was flawed 5 years ago and it hasn't improve with age. > That is how it should be. To the extent that > better entry level sim racing products will expand that marketplace, all of > us at BRD are grateful for the new AL pedals and applaud AL for their design > and price point. But their just 'plastic toys', right? Gerry

> Clearly, Dave never has used any of the high-end, non-retail consumption > pedals made by > ECCI, Not even available to the public last time I enquired. What the old ones? Come on, they really are crap. Great pedals, I have a set. I did have to wait quite a long time for them, but it was worth it. Have you tried them Tom? What 'others'? TSW? Do you think you could sit on a phone book and depress them without hyper extension of the foot? And he did some 'comparisons' with what pedals? I don't think he compared them with anything, did he? He just said how good he thought they were. What, by calling them plastic toys? Is a LWFF (the old one) a plastic toy? So the end user might need to put a wedge under them, is that a killer? So new sim drivers are particularly bad at adjusting stuff to suit themselves, are they? No you couldn't have 'easily omitted that fact' because I for one would have mentioned it for you if you had 'omitted' it. Agreed, by law shops should only be allowed to sell ECCI and BRD. I think their old stuff is crap. I was one of their first customers btw, back in 96. Since then they've concentrated on high end***pits and sim frames. The design of their old stuff was flawed 5 years ago and it hasn't improve with age. But their just 'plastic toys', right? Gerry

On Wed, 24 Oct 2001 07:39:56 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>. If you go back and read his >post again, you'll see he makes reference several times to these new pedals >being the best out there, by inference ("[They look] Like they came from >Momo.Super smooth finish,zero burrs,machined aluminum. A+" -or- "Finally >some pedals that feel substantial." -or- "The brake is much stiffer,with >perfect feel.It's progressive stiffness feels like a real car."] Isn't that >a little "over the top" too, Steve?

Tom,you really need to get over yourself.I simply posted a review of my new $60 pedals.I did so knowing that MANY people here have them on order and are anxiously awaiting them.I'm one of the first to receive them,so I posted MY opinion so the people waiting for them would have an idea of what they're like.THAT'S IT!Unlike you,I have NO financial stake involved.I have no need to slam anyone's product,or put them down because they have an opinion.And I don't compare products that are not in the same price range.Something you apparently don't understand.

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> >All of those statements would tend to make one believe these were the only >pedals on the market that had these attributes. Especially to somebody that >was new to sim racing (many of whom come to this newsgroup every day). >Clearly, Dave never has used any of the high-end, non-retail consumption >pedals made by ECCI, BRD, Red Line or others (which doesn't make him a bad >guy, just a little over-zealous with his praise and comparisons).

Wrong again,Tom.Three years ago I bought a used ECCI unit.I had them for just over a year before selling them.I paid WAY more for them used than what I have with my entire AL setup.Guess what,Tom.I enjoy my current setup more than the ECCI unit I owned.Too bad I'm not a "serious sim racer" then. > I was >simply trying to "balance" his statements about the new AL pedals with a >broader perspective....particularly for new sim drivers. I also think the >fact that those pedals can not readily be used in anything other than an >upright "desk chair" sitting position is an important fact about them that >deserved airing. Again, particularly for new sim drivers.That's the vast majority of us,Tom.Too bad you don't understand that.

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> >I also did not try to hide the fact that I do have (eventually) a financial >stake in the BRD pedals and controls. That at least allows the reader an >opportunity to view my statements with his/her own dash of salt. I could >have easily omitted that fact - and that would have been unfair (to both AL >and Dave). And, I have stated in this newsgroup many times that the quality >of the sim racing products for entry level sim drivers is critical to this >"e-sport" having an opportunity to grow and expand. So, on that point, I >think we clearly agree. > >BRD will certainly get their fair share of the marketplace, based on the >merits of their product(s). That is how it should be. To the extent that >better entry level sim racing products will expand that marketplace, all of >us at BRD are grateful for the new AL pedals and applaud AL for their design >and price point. > >I don't see how I was out of line, or "over the top" in trying to balance >Dave's statements with a broader perspective. Maybe I could have done a >better job of it?

I think your words speak for themselves.Perspective is something you're clearly missing. > >Regards, > >Tom >Cheers, Dave K

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> > > >"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:WJrB7.112910$[email hidden]... >> Sorry Tom.....but that was a bit over the top. Act Labs are clearly going >after a different price point (and market segment) than >> BRD, and no doubt they will not be as chi-chi as something that costs >twice as much (or more). I don't have any AL stuff myself, >> but it's well-regarded in its segment. Besides, I'd wager it's probably >going to the best set of $79 stand-alone pedals on the >> market ;-), so it makes no sense to knock them. Kinda like criticizing a >Prelude for not being a 911 Carrera. Both good, and both >> what their makers intended them to be. And speaking as a consumer, more >sim goodies at ALL price points is a good thing; even for >> BRD and its distributors. >> >> Cheers, >> >> SB >> >> "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote... >> > Sorry Dave K.....but I can't buy your enthusiasm for these pedals! >> <snip> >> >> >

[deleted long rant about wrong angles on pedals] Looking at the BRD site, it seems that their current pedals are at about the same angles as most other PC gear. And do you know why that is ok? Because it isn't exactly rocket science to tilt the base to achieve the correct angle when seated low as in a real race car. I doubt there is some magic device in the AL pedals making them stop working if you aren't using them with the base 100% horizontal. _ Mats Lofkvist [email hidden]

Tom Have you a link for the brd pedals as there is no info on there web site Regards Bob "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:gfuB7.63649$[email hidden]... > Gosh Steve, I think I did say all those "good things" you said about theAL > pedals. I even said I bought a set of them. I did not knock them in any > way, nor did I criticize AL either. I don't think calling the new ALpedals > "entry level" is being critical of them. I think its "calling a spade a > spade" and that is not what Dave K was doing. If you go back and read his > post again, you'll see he makes reference several times to these newpedals > being the best out there, by inference ("[They look] Like they came from > Momo.Super smooth finish,zero burrs,machined aluminum. A+" -or- "Finally > some pedals that feel substantial." -or- "The brake is much stiffer,with > perfect feel.It's progressive stiffness feels like a real car."] Isn'tthat > a little "over the top" too, Steve? > > All of those statements would tend to make one believe these were the only > pedals on the market that had these attributes. Especially to somebodythat

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> was new to sim racing (many of whom come to this newsgroup every day). > Clearly, Dave never has used any of the high-end, non-retail consumption > pedals made by ECCI, BRD, Red Line or others (which doesn't make him a bad > guy, just a little over-zealous with his praise and comparisons). I was > simply trying to "balance" his statements about the new AL pedals with a > broader perspective....particularly for new sim drivers. I also think the > fact that those pedals can not readily be used in anything other than an > upright "desk chair" sitting position is an important fact about them that > deserved airing. Again, particularly for new sim drivers. > > I also did not try to hide the fact that I do have (eventually) a

financial > stake in the BRD pedals and controls. That at least allows the reader an > opportunity to view my statements with his/her own dash of salt. I could > have easily omitted that fact - and that would have been unfair (to bothAL > and Dave). And, I have stated in this newsgroup many times that thequality

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> of the sim racing products for entry level sim drivers is critical to this > "e-sport" having an opportunity to grow and expand. So, on that point, I > think we clearly agree. > > BRD will certainly get their fair share of the marketplace, based on the > merits of their product(s). That is how it should be. To the extent that > better entry level sim racing products will expand that marketplace, all

of > us at BRD are grateful for the new AL pedals and applaud AL for theirdesign

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> and price point. > > I don't see how I was out of line, or "over the top" in trying to balance > Dave's statements with a broader perspective. Maybe I could have done a > better job of it? > > Regards, > > Tom > > > > > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:WJrB7.112910$[email hidden]... > > Sorry Tom.....but that was a bit over the top. Act Labs are clearly

going > after a different price point (and market segment) than > > BRD, and no doubt they will not be as chi-chi as something that costs > twice as much (or more). I don't have any AL stuff myself, > > but it's well-regarded in its segment. Besides, I'd wager it's probably > going to the best set of $79 stand-alone pedals on the > > market ;-), so it makes no sense to knock them. Kinda like criticizinga

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> Prelude for not being a 911 Carrera. Both good, and both > > what their makers intended them to be. And speaking as a consumer, more > sim goodies at ALL price points is a good thing; even for > > BRD and its distributors. > > > > Cheers, > > > > SB > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote... > > > Sorry Dave K.....but I can't buy your enthusiasm for these pedals! > > <snip> > > > > > >

> Tom -- can you tell BRD that their site doesn't open with netscape > please? Opens fine with Netscape here. 8-) *Peter* - http://www.cix.co.uk/~peterpc/home.html

Yes they feel great....I just wonder why I cant get my RS recognized when calibrating in GPL now??? It wont detect the turn left, or right with the wheel!! GRRR!! Sitting here "looking" at my pedals that just arrived, unable to turn!! -- Greg31 Dave K wrote in message ... >> >Yes,it works perfectly.The ergonomics are right on.I've got about five >hours on them now,they're excellent. :-) > >Dave K

I would make sure the wheel is on id #1 in Gaming Options. I've had my TMFF on id#1 and T2 on id#2 and they work (ok poor test for using a clutch, but it did work) Jason. Greg31 wrote:

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> > Yes they feel great....I just wonder why I cant get my RS recognized when > calibrating in GPL now??? It wont detect the turn left, or right with the > wheel!! GRRR!! > Sitting here "looking" at my pedals that just arrived, unable to turn!! > > -- > Greg31 > > Dave K wrote in message ... > >> > >Yes,it works perfectly.The ergonomics are right on.I've got about five > >hours on them now,they're excellent. :-) > > > >Dave K

-- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run Sims) (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

thanks Jason, it is on #1 and the clutch system on #2...I dont know WHY it has to start this crap! Very frustrating after waiting all this time for the pedals, only to have the RS go tits up! Thanks for the assistance though -- Greg31 Jason Monds wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >I would make sure the wheel is on id #1 in Gaming Options. > >I've had my TMFF on id#1 and T2 on id#2 and they work (ok poor test for >using a clutch, but it did work) > >Jason. > >Greg31 wrote: >> >> Yes they feel great....I just wonder why I cant get my RS recognized when >> calibrating in GPL now??? It wont detect the turn left, or right with the >> wheel!! GRRR!! >> Sitting here "looking" at my pedals that just arrived, unable to turn!! >> >> -- >> Greg31 >> >> Dave K wrote in message ... >> >> >> >Yes,it works perfectly.The ergonomics are right on.I've got about five >> >hours on them now,they're excellent. :-) >> > >> >Dave K > >-- >Jason Monds >http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) >http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run Sims) >(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

Ok, one last stab at it. Make sure you're using the DirectX controller option in GPL. It seems very strange that just connecting the pedals to id#2 would make the wheel on id#1 screw up. Umm, now that I think about it -- connecting the GPL USB Shifter did make the buttons on the shifter appear as if they were on id#1 (buttons 10 to 18 or so) but the TMFF wheel still worked. I'd hate to say it, but it might be a problem with GPL *ducking and running*. NFS:Porsche has a good controller setup screen where it says "Joystick 2 button 1". Try your setup in any other game/sim to see if it reads the axis properly. Jason. Greg31 wrote:

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> > thanks Jason, it is on #1 and the clutch system on #2...I dont know WHY it > has to start this crap! Very frustrating after waiting all this time for the > pedals, only to have the RS go tits up! Thanks for the assistance though > > -- > Greg31 > > Jason Monds wrote in message <[email hidden]>... > >I would make sure the wheel is on id #1 in Gaming Options. > > > >I've had my TMFF on id#1 and T2 on id#2 and they work (ok poor test for > >using a clutch, but it did work) > > > >Jason. > > > >Greg31 wrote: > >> > >> Yes they feel great....I just wonder why I cant get my RS recognized when > >> calibrating in GPL now??? It wont detect the turn left, or right with the > >> wheel!! GRRR!! > >> Sitting here "looking" at my pedals that just arrived, unable to turn!! > >>

-- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run Sims) (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

Well Jason, after many differents things, I now have Papy games working great, unfortunately trying to setup SCGT, Ratbag games etc is going to be a little more difficult! They dont detect steering inputs....so....looks like I have some "fun" ahead of me there, apparently you can plug the gas/brake cable into the RS and its supposed to work, but then I will lose the seperate gas/brake axis, thanks for your replies though..appreciate it.....I dont care about clutch in these other games, I realize they dont support it, I just want to steer....a the life of a sim racer! -- Greg31 Jason Monds wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >Ok, one last stab at it. Make sure you're using the DirectX controller >option in GPL. It seems very strange that just connecting the pedals to >id#2 would make the wheel on id#1 screw up. > >Umm, now that I think about it -- connecting the GPL USB Shifter did >make the buttons on the shifter appear as if they were on id#1 (buttons >10 to 18 or so) but the TMFF wheel still worked. > >I'd hate to say it, but it might be a problem with GPL *ducking and >running*. > >NFS:Porsche has a good controller setup screen where it says "Joystick 2 >button 1". Try your setup in any other game/sim to see if it reads the >axis properly. > >Jason. > >Greg31 wrote: >> >> thanks Jason, it is on #1 and the clutch system on #2...I dont know WHY it >> has to start this crap! Very frustrating after waiting all this time for the >> pedals, only to have the RS go tits up! Thanks for the assistance though >> >> -- >> Greg31 >> >> Jason Monds wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >> >I would make sure the wheel is on id #1 in Gaming Options. >> > >> >I've had my TMFF on id#1 and T2 on id#2 and they work (ok poor test for >> >using a clutch, but it did work) >> > >> >Jason. >> > >> >Greg31 wrote: >> >> >> >> Yes they feel great....I just wonder why I cant get my RS recognized when >> >> calibrating in GPL now??? It wont detect the turn left, or right with the >> >> wheel!! GRRR!! >> >> Sitting here "looking" at my pedals that just arrived, unable to turn!! >> >> >-- >Jason Monds >http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) >http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run Sims) >(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

I should have said that the other games I mentioned dont detect the PEDALS...the steering is fine, so the problem flip flopped on me with the non Papy games -- Greg31 Jason Monds wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >Ok, one last stab at it. Make sure you're using the DirectX controller >option in GPL. It seems very strange that just connecting the pedals to >id#2 would make the wheel on id#1 screw up. > >Umm, now that I think about it -- connecting the GPL USB Shifter did >make the buttons on the shifter appear as if they were on id#1 (buttons >10 to 18 or so) but the TMFF wheel still worked. > >I'd hate to say it, but it might be a problem with GPL *ducking and >running*. > >NFS:Porsche has a good controller setup screen where it says "Joystick 2 >button 1". Try your setup in any other game/sim to see if it reads the >axis properly. > >Jason. > >Greg31 wrote: >> >> thanks Jason, it is on #1 and the clutch system on #2...I dont know WHY it >> has to start this crap! Very frustrating after waiting all this time for the >> pedals, only to have the RS go tits up! Thanks for the assistance though >> >> -- >> Greg31 >> >> Jason Monds wrote in message <[email hidden]>... >> >I would make sure the wheel is on id #1 in Gaming Options. >> > >> >I've had my TMFF on id#1 and T2 on id#2 and they work (ok poor test for >> >using a clutch, but it did work) >> > >> >Jason. >> > >> >Greg31 wrote: >> >> >> >> Yes they feel great....I just wonder why I cant get my RS recognized when >> >> calibrating in GPL now??? It wont detect the turn left, or right with the >> >> wheel!! GRRR!! >> >> Sitting here "looking" at my pedals that just arrived, unable to turn!! >> >> >-- >Jason Monds >http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) >http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run Sims) >(Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

[email hidden] wrote:

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> > > Tom -- can you tell BRD that their site doesn't open with netscape > > please? > > Opens fine with Netscape here. > > 8-)

What version? TIA Gerry

David... On that point I would have to agree with you. It was an inappropriate choice of words. However, I call all entry-level sim controllers "plastic toys".....but it was still inappropriate, I agree. Tom "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PswB7.11114$[email hidden]... > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:gfuB7.63649$[email hidden]... > > Gosh Steve, I think I did say all those "good things" you said about the > AL > > pedals. I even said I bought a set of them. I did not knock them inany > > way, nor did I criticize AL either. > > By calling them "toys" you did just that... > > >

Andrew.... The current website at BRD was an interim upgrade until their new product line was fully implemented. That means, a new layout but not new product pictures (which are very expensive to produce). However, their "products" are not the same as three years ago, even though the pictures of them are, currently. The new BRD wheels (which actually involves 95% internal mechanics and electronic circuitry) has been available on the BRD site for about 6 months. They have not advertised that fact heavily. In fact, BRD is not very good at marketing, and they know that. Their new pedal system is a completely re-designed system from the ground up and neither looks nor functions like their existing pedals. I have seen the prototypes, and they are the best...bar none. You will have the opportunity to evaluate that statement for validity shortly. The new BRD pedal system incorporates options for turning them over and using them in an overhead position. That technology, to a very large extent was easier to develop after we learned a few things from the overhead pedal system we built....and is depicted in the video you refer too. It was made for no other purpose (except I'm using that rig now on my personal N4 sim racing setup). I should point out that their new pedal system is not "hand assembled" in their shops in England, as are their wheels. The new BRD pedals are made 100% of extruded, anodized aluminum and are being manufactured in a factory set up just to do so, in Malta. That process is a complicated one, with "tooling" alone taking several months. Those kinds of projects don't always follow tight deadlines.....by nature. And, BRD is not totally in control of events happening in a facility halfway across the globe from them. You know? Their new pedal system launch date had been set for around the end of October (for over a year now), and that looks like it will be pushed back a few weeks. I think you are being a little harsh on BRD for this short delay, considering the complexity of the issues. As far as FF goes, I shall use your words, since they are correct: "developing and evaluating." I do not find any definition in those words that say's: "promising to have" or "deadline for release" or anything like that. I can tell you I have been involved in many meetings and evaluation projects on the BRD FF implementation and their is a huge amount of industry red-tape to get through just to try to develop something new. Are you aware that every FF product on the planet must use, and pay royalties to one single company who managed to get a "patent" for that technology very early in the development phase of FF for game controllers? It is a "competition stifling" patent and probably should never have been legally issued. However, the cost of legal fees to have the patent invalidated outweighs the development costs for a new FF system, by about 100x. I guess you don't know any of this and that's why you are being "harsh" on them for no FF too? In addition, FF technology....specifically, implementing it in a racing sim controller, involves two distinct frontiers of development: Hardware and software to activate the hardware realistically from within the racing sim "game" itself. BRD has been completely free to develop and innovatively design the hardware implementation of FF for their control systems. They have set for themselves some very strict "goals" for this, and that takes some time (as long as 5 years possibly) to develop and engineer. They want to come out with a fully realistic FF system, that can be "retrofitted" into existing BRD wheel and pedal systems currently in users hands! That, I shall say, is something of an "engineering feat" if they can pull it off. The beta hardware I've seen so far....does just that! The software side of their FF development is a whole separate matter. Besides all of the legal encumbrances, they are not interested in developing a FF system for their controls that is simply "equal to" the current FF implementation available in today's racing sims. They share an opinion of today's current FF "realism" that many of us have: Its currently fun, but not very realistic from a racing standpoint. I know lots of current FF control owners are going to argue that point. I will listen to anyone of them that is a current "real life" driver in a high-powered formula one-type race car, or similar GT car to a WC car......who has a FF controller they think is realistic and challenge that person to a debate over the matter. The rest of you don't have a clue what you are talking about, except that you like the FF controller you have (and that's just fine). Until racing sim developers implement better and more realistic FF API's, BRD is not in any hurry to come out with a FF unit. I hope that makes this matter more clear to you, Andrew? There's no "imminent release" of a BRD FF unit on the horizon.....and that is their plan by design. They have never promised to do anything except what they are currently doing, "develop and evaluate." Your reference to the "West brothers" in conjunction with BRD's new pedals and wheels is unfair and uncalled for (to BRD and to the West brothers, I might add). Regards, Tom "AndrewS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kAyB7.140$[email hidden]... > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:gfuB7.63649$[email hidden]... > > Gosh Steve, I think I did say all those "good things" you said about the > AL > > pedals. I even said I bought a set of them. I did not knock them inany > > way, nor did I criticize AL either. > > Tom you were a little over the top in your criticism. The AL pedals maybe > toys and may not be in the same league as the BRD pedals, but most of us > don't want anything more. I share you enthusiasm for BRD products. I > strongly considered purchasing one of their wheels a couple of years ago. > When I visited their web site earlier today I see that the exact same > products are available for purchase. They still don't have a forcefeedback > wheel which they were developing and evaluating. There is still nomention

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> of the new pedals on their web site. It's the same two year old web site > with a new design. Yes I've seen your movie of the the new pedals, but as > far as BRD goes.... Where the hell are they? Much like the West brothers, > it's time to put up or shut up. Act Labs has brought their product to > market, BRD has not. > >

Yeah....I sure agree with that one too! I know, people always "love what they own"........and even I get carried away with enthusiasm for stuff I use, especially when it comes to racing equipment....and especially when it makes me faster or immerses me more into the sim. I do get it. Tom "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ipAB7.115504$[email hidden]... > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote... > <snip> > > Maybe I could have done a better job of it? < > > I say so; but no biggie, Tom. And anyway; having people on r.a.s. gettingoverzealous about their favored brand of NEW dedicated > sim pedals is a good sign (besides being less annoying than the usualvid-card/F1 game flame wars.) > > Bring on the hardware, BAYBEE..... ;-) > > SB > >

Gary.... Yes, I do own a set of Red Line, floor stand, overhead, all aluminum pedals and they are terrific - thanks to Nigel, he does a terrific job with these pedals and anyone in the market for a new pedal system (in my opinion) should seriously investigate purchasing Red Line pedals. His hand craftsmanship is superior to all others I've seen (including BRD's current hand-crafted pedals). I think Nigel's pedals are a "work of art" actually, they are simply gorgeous. Whether ECCI is available for retail public sale currently is not germane to the topic. They were available in recent times and many sim racers have them and use them right now, including last year's "LikeReal" NASCAR LAN Champion in the Open Division, Mr. Allen Boyd. BRD's "old pedals" are the reason they've designed new ones. However, in the interim they have substantially upgraded the function and feel of their old pedal system chassis.....and I believe there are several "fast guys" on VROC right now that would challenge your evaluation! Pop into VROC anytime and ask "Mac" what he thinks of the current BRD pedals. And, he owns both Red Line and ECCI pedals as well. Ask him which one he races with when he wants to win. Finally Gary, when one makes a statement about something being "good or bad".....it is assumed the person(s) is comparing the item to something else they have tried, tasted or used. More often than not, the "something else" is assumed and unstated. In a few cases, that's unfair to the "something else." As in this case. If I say, "This tuna sandwich has the best taste!" I don't think its necessary for me to follow that sentence with "Compared to all the other tuna sandwiches I've eaten." Now, do I Gary? C'mon, man! That's really "fishing" for something to criticize me about (no pun intended....lol...). I'm glad we've both managed to set ourselves up as self-appointed "watchdogs" for newbies in the sim community! Somewhere between the two extremes.......somewhere in the middle, they'll manage to get the straight scoop and the truth. That's great. What's our next topic for debate? Regards, Tom "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Tom Pabst wrote: > > > Clearly, Dave never has used any of the high-end, non-retail consumption > > pedals made by > > > ECCI, > > Not even available to the public last time I enquired. > > > BRD, > > What the old ones? Come on, they really are crap. > > > Red Line > > Great pedals, I have a set. I did have to wait quite a long time for > them, but it was worth it. Have you tried them Tom? > > >or others > > What 'others'? TSW? Do you think you could sit on a phone book and > depress them without hyper extension of the foot? > > >(which doesn't make him a bad > > guy, just a little over-zealous with his praise and comparisons). > > And he did some 'comparisons' with what pedals? I don't think he > compared them with anything, did he? He just said how good he thought > they were. > > > I was > > simply trying to "balance" his statements about the new AL pedals with a > > broader perspective....particularly for new sim drivers. > > What, by calling them plastic toys? Is a LWFF (the old one) a plastic > toy? > > > I also think the > > fact that those pedals can not readily be used in anything other than an > > upright "desk chair" sitting position is an important fact about them

that

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> > deserved airing. > > So the end user might need to put a wedge under them, is that a killer? > > > Again, particularly for new sim drivers. > > So new sim drivers are particularly bad at adjusting stuff to suit > themselves, are they? > > > I also did not try to hide the fact that I do have (eventually) a

financial > > stake in the BRD pedals and controls. That at least allows the readeran > > opportunity to view my statements with his/her own dash of salt. Icould > > have easily omitted that fact - and that would have been unfair (to bothAL

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> > and Dave). > > No you couldn't have 'easily omitted that fact' because I for one would > have mentioned it for you if you had 'omitted' it. > > > And, I have stated in this newsgroup many times that the quality > > of the sim racing products for entry level sim drivers is critical to

this > > "e-sport" having an opportunity to grow and expand. So, on that point,I

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> > think we clearly agree. > > Agreed, by law shops should only be allowed to sell ECCI and BRD. > > > BRD will certainly get their fair share of the marketplace, based on the > > merits of their product(s). > > I think their old stuff is crap. I was one of their first customers btw, > back in 96. Since then they've concentrated on high end cockpits and sim > frames. The design of their old stuff was flawed 5 years ago and it > hasn't improve with age. > > > That is how it should be. To the extent that > > better entry level sim racing products will expand that marketplace, all

of > > us at BRD are grateful for the new AL pedals and applaud AL for theirdesign > > and price point. > > But their just 'plastic toys', right? > > Gerry

lol....Gerry...it figures you'd use Netscape. Tom "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Tom Pabst wrote: > > > Disclaimer: I don't work for BRD. But I do know all of the employeesat > > BRD who build their rigs, and all of the real-world race car drivers who > > helped test them for BRD. And, my reputation is on the line if Irecommend > > them since I'm going to be their USA Distributor. So, I can't afford to > > give out some giddy "these are my new pedals and aren't they cool" BSabout > > them. > > Tom -- can you tell BRD that their site doesn't open with netscape > please? > > Gerry

No problem Tom. I use TSW2 pedals with my Act Labs Force RS. I think it's only a matter of time until I break the wheel off the plastic mounts for the 2nd time as crazy as I've been sawing at it with Rally Tropy. I look forward to the day when Force Feedback comes in a metal wheel. Sometimes I venture back over to TE and drool over the custom wheels they have there and even think about using my USB RS Shifter with one, but without FF (even in it's current state) I will take what I can get until somebody better comes along. - David "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rBYB7.70256$[email hidden]...

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> David... > > On that point I would have to agree with you. It was an inappropriate > choice of words. However, I call all entry-level sim controllers "plastic > toys".....but it was still inappropriate, I agree. > > Tom > > > "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:PswB7.11114$[email hidden]... > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:gfuB7.63649$[email hidden]... > > > Gosh Steve, I think I did say all those "good things" you said about

the > > > pedals. I even said I bought a set of them. I did not knock them in > > > way, nor did I criticize AL either. > > > > By calling them "toys" you did just that...

Tom Pabst quipped: > lol....Gerry...it figures you'd use Netscape. I don't use Outlook either. <g> Gerry

Tom Pabst quipped: I don't use Outlook either. <g> Gerry

Bert, Its quite easy really, when I first opened mine up it didn't look so easy, but on closer examination its pretty straightforward. You simply pull off the bottom plate and then remove the pivot end caps. Then tilt the pedal in its mount and the pot can then be slid out of the end of the pedal pivot. It's just a push fit into the pivot, and the end cap grabs the threads on the pot housing to keep the body from rotating. I know all of this because I found the throttle spring to be way too stiff on mine so I removed one of them (there's two in each pedal). I hope that answers your question... Norse BRH <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> Do you have any idea how hard or easy it'll be to replace the pots when > the time comes? > > I am "mechanically challenged". > > > > Dave K wrote: > > > Just received my new pedals today,thought I'd give a quick review. > > > > Looks:They look excellent. :-) Like they came from Momo.Super smooth > > finish,zero burrs,machined aluminum. A+ > > > > Feel: Finally some pedals that feel substantial.Very progressive > > resistance,with the throttle having a smooth,long throw,easy to > > modulate and control wheelspin.The brake is much stiffer,with perfect > > feel.It's progressive stiffness feels like a real car.Be prepared to > > feel a little fatigue in your calves after a long race.The clutch > > feels like the brake pedal,again excellent. > > The spacing of the pedals is good,with the gas and brake close enough > > to heel-toe effectively.The rubber heel base will keep your feet from > > sliding,it offers good grip. A > > > > Use:So far I've tried GPL,N4, and Viper Racing.With these new > > pedals,the immersion factor is taken to a new level.VR is a whole new > > sim using the progressive clutch,something I hope more developers > > start doing.I'm really surprised what Act Labs has done with these new > > pedals.It's obvious they did some real homework before they settled on > > the finished design,making the long wait well worth it!Way to go guys! > > > > Dave K > > > > Disclaimer:I don't work for Act Labs,nor do I know anyone who works > > for them,and I'm not being paid for this review. ;-)

Tom, In all of this discussion, nobody has posted the URL for the BRD website. Can you provide it, please? Bert Tom Pabst wrote:

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> Andrew.... > > The current website at BRD was an interim upgrade until their new product > line was fully implemented. That means, a new layout but not new product > pictures (which are very expensive to produce). However, their "products" > are not the same as three years ago, even though the pictures of them are, > currently. > > The new BRD wheels (which actually involves 95% internal mechanics and > electronic circuitry) has been available on the BRD site for about 6 months. > They have not advertised that fact heavily. In fact, BRD is not very good > at marketing, and they know that. > > Their new pedal system is a completely re-designed system from the ground up > and neither looks nor functions like their existing pedals. I have seen the > prototypes, and they are the best...bar none. You will have the opportunity > to evaluate that statement for validity shortly. The new BRD pedal system > incorporates options for turning them over and using them in an overhead > position. That technology, to a very large extent was easier to develop > after we learned a few things from the overhead pedal system we built....and > is depicted in the video you refer too. It was made for no other purpose > (except I'm using that rig now on my personal N4 sim racing setup). I > should point out that their new pedal system is not "hand assembled" in > their shops in England, as are their wheels. The new BRD pedals are made > 100% of extruded, anodized aluminum and are being manufactured in a factory > set up just to do so, in Malta. That process is a complicated one, with > "tooling" alone taking several months. Those kinds of projects don't always > follow tight deadlines.....by nature. And, BRD is not totally in control of > events happening in a facility halfway across the globe from them. You > know? Their new pedal system launch date had been set for around the end of > October (for over a year now), and that looks like it will be pushed back a > few weeks. I think you are being a little harsh on BRD for this short > delay, considering the complexity of the issues. > > As far as FF goes, I shall use your words, since they are correct: > "developing and evaluating." I do not find any definition in those words > that say's: "promising to have" or "deadline for release" or anything like > that. I can tell you I have been involved in many meetings and evaluation > projects on the BRD FF implementation and their is a huge amount of industry > red-tape to get through just to try to develop something new. Are you aware > that every FF product on the planet must use, and pay royalties to one > single company who managed to get a "patent" for that technology very early > in the development phase of FF for game controllers? It is a "competition > stifling" patent and probably should never have been legally issued. > However, the cost of legal fees to have the patent invalidated outweighs the > development costs for a new FF system, by about 100x. I guess you don't > know any of this and that's why you are being "harsh" on them for no FF too? > > In addition, FF technology....specifically, implementing it in a racing sim > controller, involves two distinct frontiers of development: Hardware and > software to activate the hardware realistically from within the racing sim > "game" itself. BRD has been completely free to develop and innovatively > design the hardware implementation of FF for their control systems. They > have set for themselves some very strict "goals" for this, and that takes > some time (as long as 5 years possibly) to develop and engineer. They want > to come out with a fully realistic FF system, that can be "retrofitted" into > existing BRD wheel and pedal systems currently in users hands! That, I > shall say, is something of an "engineering feat" if they can pull it off. > The beta hardware I've seen so far....does just that! > > The software side of their FF development is a whole separate matter. > Besides all of the legal encumbrances, they are not interested in developing > a FF system for their controls that is simply "equal to" the current FF > implementation available in today's racing sims. They share an opinion of > today's current FF "realism" that many of us have: Its currently fun, but > not very realistic from a racing standpoint. I know lots of current FF > control owners are going to argue that point. I will listen to anyone of > them that is a current "real life" driver in a high-powered formula one-type > race car, or similar GT car to a WC car......who has a FF controller they > think is realistic and challenge that person to a debate over the matter. > The rest of you don't have a clue what you are talking about, except that > you like the FF controller you have (and that's just fine). Until racing > sim developers implement better and more realistic FF API's, BRD is not in > any hurry to come out with a FF unit. I hope that makes this matter more > clear to you, Andrew? There's no "imminent release" of a BRD FF unit on the > horizon.....and that is their plan by design. They have never promised to > do anything except what they are currently doing, "develop and evaluate." > > Your reference to the "West brothers" in conjunction with BRD's new pedals > and wheels is unfair and uncalled for (to BRD and to the West brothers, I > might add). > > Regards, > > Tom > > "AndrewS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:kAyB7.140$[email hidden]... > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:gfuB7.63649$[email hidden]... > > > Gosh Steve, I think I did say all those "good things" you said about the > > AL > > > pedals. I even said I bought a set of them. I did not knock them in > any > > > way, nor did I criticize AL either. > > > > Tom you were a little over the top in your criticism. The AL pedals may > be > > toys and may not be in the same league as the BRD pedals, but most of us > > don't want anything more. I share you enthusiasm for BRD products. I > > strongly considered purchasing one of their wheels a couple of years ago. > > When I visited their web site earlier today I see that the exact same > > products are available for purchase. They still don't have a force > feedback > > wheel which they were developing and evaluating. There is still no > mention > > of the new pedals on their web site. It's the same two year old web site > > with a new design. Yes I've seen your movie of the the new pedals, but as > > far as BRD goes.... Where the hell are they? Much like the West brothers, > > it's time to put up or shut up. Act Labs has brought their product to > > market, BRD has not. > > > >

-- Bert

Tom, While you're at it, what's the URL for the Red Line pedals? Thanks. Bert Tom Pabst wrote: > Gary.... > > Yes, I do own a set of Red Line, floor stand, overhead, all aluminum pedals > and they are terrific - thanks to Nigel, he does a terrific job with these > pedals and anyone in the market for a new pedal system (in my opinion) > should seriously investigate purchasing Red Line pedals.....

www.interactiveracing.com "BRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Tom, > > In all of this discussion, nobody has posted the URL for the BRD website.Can

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> you provide it, please? > > Bert > > > > Tom Pabst wrote: > > > Andrew.... > > > > The current website at BRD was an interim upgrade until their new

product > > line was fully implemented. That means, a new layout but not newproduct > > pictures (which are very expensive to produce). However, their"products" > > are not the same as three years ago, even though the pictures of themare, > > currently. > > > > The new BRD wheels (which actually involves 95% internal mechanics and > > electronic circuitry) has been available on the BRD site for about 6months. > > They have not advertised that fact heavily. In fact, BRD is not verygood > > at marketing, and they know that. > > > > Their new pedal system is a completely re-designed system from theground up > > and neither looks nor functions like their existing pedals. I have seenthe > > prototypes, and they are the best...bar none. You will have theopportunity > > to evaluate that statement for validity shortly. The new BRD pedalsystem > > incorporates options for turning them over and using them in an overhead > > position. That technology, to a very large extent was easier to develop > > after we learned a few things from the overhead pedal system webuilt....and > > is depicted in the video you refer too. It was made for no otherpurpose > > (except I'm using that rig now on my personal N4 sim racing setup). I > > should point out that their new pedal system is not "hand assembled" in > > their shops in England, as are their wheels. The new BRD pedals aremade > > 100% of extruded, anodized aluminum and are being manufactured in afactory > > set up just to do so, in Malta. That process is a complicated one, with > > "tooling" alone taking several months. Those kinds of projects don'talways > > follow tight deadlines.....by nature. And, BRD is not totally incontrol of > > events happening in a facility halfway across the globe from them. You > > know? Their new pedal system launch date had been set for around theend of > > October (for over a year now), and that looks like it will be pushedback a > > few weeks. I think you are being a little harsh on BRD for this short > > delay, considering the complexity of the issues. > > > > As far as FF goes, I shall use your words, since they are correct: > > "developing and evaluating." I do not find any definition in thosewords > > that say's: "promising to have" or "deadline for release" or anythinglike > > that. I can tell you I have been involved in many meetings andevaluation > > projects on the BRD FF implementation and their is a huge amount ofindustry > > red-tape to get through just to try to develop something new. Are youaware > > that every FF product on the planet must use, and pay royalties to one > > single company who managed to get a "patent" for that technology veryearly > > in the development phase of FF for game controllers? It is a"competition > > stifling" patent and probably should never have been legally issued. > > However, the cost of legal fees to have the patent invalidated outweighsthe > > development costs for a new FF system, by about 100x. I guess you don't > > know any of this and that's why you are being "harsh" on them for no FFtoo? > > > > In addition, FF technology....specifically, implementing it in a racingsim > > controller, involves two distinct frontiers of development: Hardwareand > > software to activate the hardware realistically from within the racingsim > > "game" itself. BRD has been completely free to develop and innovatively > > design the hardware implementation of FF for their control systems.They > > have set for themselves some very strict "goals" for this, and thattakes > > some time (as long as 5 years possibly) to develop and engineer. Theywant > > to come out with a fully realistic FF system, that can be "retrofitted"into > > existing BRD wheel and pedal systems currently in users hands! That, I > > shall say, is something of an "engineering feat" if they can pull itoff. > > The beta hardware I've seen so far....does just that! > > > > The software side of their FF development is a whole separate matter. > > Besides all of the legal encumbrances, they are not interested indeveloping > > a FF system for their controls that is simply "equal to" the current FF > > implementation available in today's racing sims. They share an opinionof > > today's current FF "realism" that many of us have: Its currently fun,but > > not very realistic from a racing standpoint. I know lots of current FF > > control owners are going to argue that point. I will listen to anyoneof > > them that is a current "real life" driver in a high-powered formulaone-type > > race car, or similar GT car to a WC car......who has a FF controllerthey > > think is realistic and challenge that person to a debate over thematter. > > The rest of you don't have a clue what you are talking about, exceptthat > > you like the FF controller you have (and that's just fine). Untilracing > > sim developers implement better and more realistic FF API's, BRD is notin > > any hurry to come out with a FF unit. I hope that makes this mattermore > > clear to you, Andrew? There's no "imminent release" of a BRD FF unit onthe > > horizon.....and that is their plan by design. They have never promisedto > > do anything except what they are currently doing, "develop andevaluate." > > > > Your reference to the "West brothers" in conjunction with BRD's newpedals > > and wheels is unfair and uncalled for (to BRD and to the West brothers,I

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> > might add). > > > > Regards, > > > > Tom > > > > "AndrewS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:kAyB7.140$[email hidden]... > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:gfuB7.63649$[email hidden]... > > > > Gosh Steve, I think I did say all those "good things" you said about

the > > > AL > > > > pedals. I even said I bought a set of them. I did not knock themin > > any > > > > way, nor did I criticize AL either. > > > > > > Tom you were a little over the top in your criticism. The AL pedalsmay > > be > > > toys and may not be in the same league as the BRD pedals, but most ofus > > > don't want anything more. I share you enthusiasm for BRD products. I > > > strongly considered purchasing one of their wheels a couple of yearsago. > > > When I visited their web site earlier today I see that the exact same > > > products are available for purchase. They still don't have a force > > feedback > > > wheel which they were developing and evaluating. There is still no > > mention > > > of the new pedals on their web site. It's the same two year old website > > > with a new design. Yes I've seen your movie of the the new pedals,but as > > > far as BRD goes.... Where the hell are they? Much like the Westbrothers,

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> > > it's time to put up or shut up. Act Labs has brought their product to > > > market, BRD has not. > > > > > > > > -- > Bert > > >