Re: I have the solution to all of CART's problems.

Sears Point? don Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nMfD7.744766$[email hidden]...

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> There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in America: > > Laguna Seca > Mid-O > Road America > RoadAtlanta > Watkins Glen > > Am I leaving anybody out?

At this recent Austalian race, CART had over 110,000 people in attendance. I heard the German and British races alos had very good attendance. So here is the solution for CART. ONLY race overseas. I mean they can hardly draw flies here in the States, so they should only race over seas. They can change the name to F1.5 and make a fortune. Seems like a home run. btgoss

The Long Beach round draws something like 150,000 for the weekend. Other CART races are doing well, but there are some, like Michigan which don't seem to attract big crowds. My fear is the natural road courses that are far from big cities will lose out. Anybody got the attendance figures for Mid Ohio and Road America??? dave henrie "btgoss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:n8eD7.34832$[email hidden]... > At this recent Austalian race, CART had over 110,000 people in attendance.I > heard the German and British races alos had very good attendance. So hereis > the solution for CART. > ONLY race overseas. I mean they can hardly draw flies here in the States,so > they should only race over seas. They can change the name to F1.5 and makea

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> fortune. Seems like a home run. > > btgoss > > > >

Dave, Goodyear used to publish annual attendance/TV audience figures, but no longer. Most of the natural-terrain road courses do quite well, spectator-wise, RA & Mid-O among them. Most of the street courses don't, except for LB & Canada (e.g., Houston, Miami). And, of course, TV viewership is lower than whale sh*t. There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in America: Laguna Seca Mid-O Road America RoadAtlanta Watkins Glen Am I leaving anybody out? I'm not counting Sebring or Cleveland (airport courses) or Daytona or the new 2-mile, 17-turn Fontana (infield courses) or Willow Springs or V.I.R. (de facto non-spectator tracks) or club tracks like Putnam Park, Grattan or Roebling. That leaves....nada. Net-net: CART should come to terms with France & Panoz or be denied 40% of the remaining n.t. road circuits in this country. But with Heitzler @ the helm & Vaninni nipping at his heels, don't hold yer breath! --Steve Smith "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2oeD7.12501$[email hidden]... > The Long Beach round draws something like 150,000 for the weekend. > Other CART races are doing well, but there are some, like Michigan which > don't seem to attract big crowds. My fear is the natural road coursesthat > are far from big cities will lose out. Anybody got the attendance figures > for Mid Ohio and Road America??? > dave henrie > "btgoss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:n8eD7.34832$[email hidden]... > > At this recent Austalian race, CART had over 110,000 people inattendance. > I > > heard the German and British races alos had very good attendance. Sohere > is > > the solution for CART. > > ONLY race overseas. I mean they can hardly draw flies here in theStates, > so > > they should only race over seas. They can change the name to F1.5 andmake

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> a > > fortune. Seems like a home run. > > > > btgoss > > > > > > > > > >

"Most of the street courses don't, except for LB & Canada (e.g., Houston, Miami)." Jumping the gun a little with Miami aren't we...?

Stephen Smith wrote in message ...

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> >There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in America: > >Laguna Seca >Mid-O >Road America >RoadAtlanta >Watkins Glen > >Am I leaving anybody out?

Mosport Lime Rock Park Circuit Gilles Villenuve Dale.

Just going by past experience. Sanchez & Co. never made a dime on the street races (and now the oval is bankrupting Homestead...the town!). "Toe_out" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PwhD7.99754$%[email hidden]... > "Most of the street courses don't, except for LB & Canada (e.g., Houston, > Miami)." > > Jumping the gun a little with Miami aren't we...? > >

Last time I looked, neither Mosport nor Trois Riveres, etc., were in "America." I didn't count Lime Rock as a "major" track (it could never afford a CART sanctioning fee) because it's crippled by 1. local noise ordinances (no Sunday racing, etc.), and b) by lack of access--it's 2-lane all the way from the gate back over the border to New York. Any more than 5,000 spectators and they call the health dept., the fire dept., the police dept., Zero Population Growth, etc. But it *is* a lovely club track (altho not as nice as V.I.R.) <_> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Stephen Smith wrote in message ... > > > >There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left inAmerica:

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> > > >Laguna Seca > >Mid-O > >Road America > >RoadAtlanta > >Watkins Glen > > > > >Am I leaving anybody out? > > Mosport > Lime Rock Park > Circuit Gilles Villenuve > > > Dale. > > > > > >

Stephen Smith wrote in message ... >Last time I looked, neither Mosport nor Trois Riveres, etc., were in >"America." > Whoops... that's what I get for speed-reading posts while at work :-) D.

"Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nMfD7.744766$[email hidden]... > There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left inAmerica:

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> > Laguna Seca > Mid-O > Road America > RoadAtlanta > Watkins Glen > > Am I leaving anybody out?

Portland?

Well I have no doubt why they'd be getting no crowds at those tight street circuits and one mile ovals - NO PASSING! I sure as hell wouldn't want to go to Houston and be bored to tears by it all. They have a great street circuit at Long Beach, they CAN do the same for the others if they wanted to. They just have to put more thought into it! And the int'l circuits do get a lot bigger crowds, Mexico for a first race was huge! And Montreal should be awesome next year. :D Rafe Mc On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:49:23 GMT, "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Dave, > >Goodyear used to publish annual attendance/TV audience figures, but no >longer. Most of the natural-terrain road courses do quite well, >spectator-wise, RA & Mid-O among them. Most of the street courses don't, >except for LB & Canada (e.g., Houston, Miami). And, of course, TV >viewership is lower than whale sh*t. > >There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in America: > >Laguna Seca >Mid-O >Road America >RoadAtlanta >Watkins Glen > >Am I leaving anybody out? I'm not counting Sebring or Cleveland (airport >courses) or Daytona or the new 2-mile, 17-turn Fontana (infield courses) or >Willow Springs or V.I.R. (de facto non-spectator tracks) or club tracks like >Putnam Park, Grattan or Roebling. That leaves....nada. > >Net-net: CART should come to terms with France & Panoz or be denied 40% of >the remaining n.t. road circuits in this country. > >But with Heitzler @ the helm & Vaninni nipping at his heels, don't hold yer >breath! > >--Steve Smith > >"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:2oeD7.12501$[email hidden]... >> The Long Beach round draws something like 150,000 for the weekend. >> Other CART races are doing well, but there are some, like Michigan which >> don't seem to attract big crowds. My fear is the natural road courses >that >> are far from big cities will lose out. Anybody got the attendance figures >> for Mid Ohio and Road America??? >> dave henrie >> "btgoss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:n8eD7.34832$[email hidden]... >> > At this recent Austalian race, CART had over 110,000 people in >attendance. >> I >> > heard the German and British races alos had very good attendance. So >here >> is >> > the solution for CART. >> > ONLY race overseas. I mean they can hardly draw flies here in the >States, >> so >> > they should only race over seas. They can change the name to F1.5 and >make >> a >> > fortune. Seems like a home run. >> > >> > btgoss >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >

The one mile ovals USED to offer some of the most ferocious racing in the series. Back when they had tons more downforce, the leaders would be passing inside or out....the one groove racing that we see too much of these days, didn't exist...If somebody was slowing you up...just run outside..and blitz by... Tracey and Andretti and Unser Jr did quite well in the late 80's zapping through the traffic on one-milers. dave henrie "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well I have no doubt why they'd be getting no crowds at those tight > street circuits and one mile ovals - NO PASSING! I sure as hell > wouldn't want to go to Houston and be bored to tears by it all. They > have a great street circuit at Long Beach, they CAN do the same for > the others if they wanted to. They just have to put more thought into > it! > > And the int'l circuits do get a lot bigger crowds, Mexico for a first > race was huge! And Montreal should be awesome next year. :D > > Rafe Mc > > > On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:49:23 GMT, "Stephen Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Dave, > > > >Goodyear used to publish annual attendance/TV audience figures, but no > >longer. Most of the natural-terrain road courses do quite well, > >spectator-wise, RA & Mid-O among them. Most of the street courses don't, > >except for LB & Canada (e.g., Houston, Miami). And, of course, TV > >viewership is lower than whale sh*t. > > > >There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in

America:

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> > > >Laguna Seca > >Mid-O > >Road America > >RoadAtlanta > >Watkins Glen > > > >Am I leaving anybody out? I'm not counting Sebring or Cleveland (airport > >courses) or Daytona or the new 2-mile, 17-turn Fontana (infield courses)

or > >Willow Springs or V.I.R. (de facto non-spectator tracks) or club trackslike > >Putnam Park, Grattan or Roebling. That leaves....nada. > > > >Net-net: CART should come to terms with France & Panoz or be denied 40%of > >the remaining n.t. road circuits in this country. > > > >But with Heitzler @ the helm & Vaninni nipping at his heels, don't holdyer

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> >breath! > > > >--Steve Smith > > > >"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:2oeD7.12501$[email hidden]... > >> The Long Beach round draws something like 150,000 for the weekend. > >> Other CART races are doing well, but there are some, like Michigan

which > >> don't seem to attract big crowds. My fear is the natural road courses > >that > >> are far from big cities will lose out. Anybody got the attendancefigures

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> >> for Mid Ohio and Road America??? > >> dave henrie > >> "btgoss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> news:n8eD7.34832$[email hidden]... > >> > At this recent Austalian race, CART had over 110,000 people in > >attendance. > >> I > >> > heard the German and British races alos had very good attendance. So > >here > >> is > >> > the solution for CART. > >> > ONLY race overseas. I mean they can hardly draw flies here in the > >States, > >> so > >> > they should only race over seas. They can change the name to F1.5 and > >make > >> a > >> > fortune. Seems like a home run. > >> > > >> > btgoss > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > >

We have too many transplanted southerners in Michigan. Between them and the autoworkers the only thing that is every likely to go over big here is NASCAR. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2oeD7.12501$[email hidden]... > The Long Beach round draws something like 150,000 for the weekend. > Other CART races are doing well, but there are some, like Michiganwhich > don't seem to attract big crowds. My fear is the natural road coursesthat > are far from big cities will lose out. Anybody got the attendancefigures > for Mid Ohio and Road America??? > dave henrie > "btgoss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:n8eD7.34832$[email hidden]... > > At this recent Austalian race, CART had over 110,000 people inattendance. > I > > heard the German and British races alos had very good attendance. Sohere > is > > the solution for CART. > > ONLY race overseas. I mean they can hardly draw flies here in theStates, > so > > they should only race over seas. They can change the name to F1.5and make

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> a > > fortune. Seems like a home run. > > > > btgoss > > > > > > > > > >

Of course they're in America, just not in the U.S.A. "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CJhD7.62820$1%[email hidden]... > Last time I looked, neither Mosport nor Trois Riveres, etc., were in > "America." > > I didn't count Lime Rock as a "major" track (it could never afford aCART > sanctioning fee) because it's crippled by 1. local noise ordinances(no > Sunday racing, etc.), and b) by lack of access--it's 2-lane all theway from > the gate back over the border to New York. Any more than 5,000spectators > and they call the health dept., the fire dept., the police dept., Zero > Population Growth, etc. But it *is* a lovely club track (altho not asnice

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> as V.I.R.) > > <_> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > > Stephen Smith wrote in message ... > > > > > >There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in > America: > > > > > >Laguna Seca > > >Mid-O > > >Road America > > >RoadAtlanta > > >Watkins Glen > > > > > > > >Am I leaving anybody out? > > > > Mosport > > Lime Rock Park > > Circuit Gilles Villenuve > > > > > > Dale. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:11:14 GMT, [email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote: >Well I have no doubt why they'd be getting no crowds at those tight >street circuits and one mile ovals - NO PASSING! I sure as hell >wouldn't want to go to Houston and be bored to tears by it all. They >have a great street circuit at Long Beach, they CAN do the same for >the others if they wanted to. They just have to put more thought into >it! Hopefully the people at Long Beach will do a good job at Denver next year. >And the int'l circuits do get a lot bigger crowds, Mexico for a first >race was huge! And Montreal should be awesome next year. :D Has there been a date announced yet? I was wondering who was going to race first, CART or F1.

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes: > The one mile ovals USED to offer some of the most ferocious racing in the > series. Back when they had tons more downforce, the leaders would be > passing inside or out....the one groove racing that we see too much of these > days, didn't exist...If somebody was slowing you up...just run outside..and > blitz by... Tracey and Andretti and Unser Jr did quite well in the late 80's > zapping through the traffic on one-milers. Yeah, I got hooked on CART when I watched Nazareth in 97. Al Unser Jr. and Micheal Andretti side by side for I don't know how many laps. Incredible. I just hope that they continue the aero trend they started in Germany and England. The German race was fantastic (apart from the last 10 laps of course :( )

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> dave henrie > "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Well I have no doubt why they'd be getting no crowds at those tight > > street circuits and one mile ovals - NO PASSING! I sure as hell > > wouldn't want to go to Houston and be bored to tears by it all. They > > have a great street circuit at Long Beach, they CAN do the same for > > the others if they wanted to. They just have to put more thought into > > it! > > > > And the int'l circuits do get a lot bigger crowds, Mexico for a first > > race was huge! And Montreal should be awesome next year. :D > > > > Rafe Mc > > > > > > On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:49:23 GMT, "Stephen Smith" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Dave, > > > > > >Goodyear used to publish annual attendance/TV audience figures, but no > > >longer. Most of the natural-terrain road courses do quite well, > > >spectator-wise, RA & Mid-O among them. Most of the street courses don't, > > >except for LB & Canada (e.g., Houston, Miami). And, of course, TV > > >viewership is lower than whale sh*t. > > > > > >There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in > America: > > > > > >Laguna Seca > > >Mid-O > > >Road America > > >RoadAtlanta > > >Watkins Glen > > > > > >Am I leaving anybody out? I'm not counting Sebring or Cleveland (airport > > >courses) or Daytona or the new 2-mile, 17-turn Fontana (infield courses) > or > > >Willow Springs or V.I.R. (de facto non-spectator tracks) or club tracks > like > > >Putnam Park, Grattan or Roebling. That leaves....nada. > > > > > >Net-net: CART should come to terms with France & Panoz or be denied 40% > of > > >the remaining n.t. road circuits in this country. > > > > > >But with Heitzler @ the helm & Vaninni nipping at his heels, don't hold > yer > > >breath! > > > > > >--Steve Smith > > > > > >"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:2oeD7.12501$[email hidden]... > > >> The Long Beach round draws something like 150,000 for the weekend. > > >> Other CART races are doing well, but there are some, like Michigan > which > > >> don't seem to attract big crowds. My fear is the natural road courses > > >that > > >> are far from big cities will lose out. Anybody got the attendance > figures > > >> for Mid Ohio and Road America??? > > >> dave henrie > > >> "btgoss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >> news:n8eD7.34832$[email hidden]... > > >> > At this recent Austalian race, CART had over 110,000 people in > > >attendance. > > >> I > > >> > heard the German and British races alos had very good attendance. So > > >here > > >> is > > >> > the solution for CART. > > >> > ONLY race overseas. I mean they can hardly draw flies here in the > > >States, > > >> so > > >> > they should only race over seas. They can change the name to F1.5 and > > >make > > >> a > > >> > fortune. Seems like a home run. > > >> > > > >> > btgoss > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > > > >

-- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

My good friend is the second in command at Mid Ohio, and he won't even tell me what the attendance figures are! Probably cause I post in newsgroups and the like ;) Anyhow, I'm sure their weekend total is around 100K, but M-O has to work their ass off to get it. They promote at bars and restaurants from Columbus to Cleveland, have give-a-ways, driver appearances, do radio commercials all over the state... just to get enough people at the track to cover CART's sanctioning fee. CART doesn't help with the promotion AT ALL. My buddy says for the amount of money they make, it's not worth it. They're contracted thru next year, but if CART raises their sanctioning fee after that, you can kiss Mid Ohio buh-bye unless they take over the race promotion... Warlock! Dave Henrie wrote:

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> The Long Beach round draws something like 150,000 for the weekend. > Other CART races are doing well, but there are some, like Michigan which > don't seem to attract big crowds. My fear is the natural road courses that > are far from big cities will lose out. Anybody got the attendance figures > for Mid Ohio and Road America??? > dave henrie > "btgoss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:n8eD7.34832$[email hidden]... > > At this recent Austalian race, CART had over 110,000 people in attendance. > I > > heard the German and British races alos had very good attendance. So here > is > > the solution for CART. > > ONLY race overseas. I mean they can hardly draw flies here in the States, > so > > they should only race over seas. They can change the name to F1.5 and make > a > > fortune. Seems like a home run. > > > > btgoss > > > > > > > >

Eric Kruger wrote:

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> "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:nMfD7.744766$[email hidden]... >> There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in > America: >> >> Laguna Seca >> Mid-O >> Road America >> RoadAtlanta >> Watkins Glen >> >> Am I leaving anybody out? > > Portland?

VIR (Virginia International Raceway) -- Usenet... proof that net-democracy is still a dream... a bad one...

In article <9rlg6a$ivo$[email hidden]>, "don hodgdon" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Sears Point? > >don > >Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:nMfD7.744766$[email hidden]... >> There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in America: >> >> Laguna Seca >> Mid-O >> Road America >> RoadAtlanta >> Watkins Glen >> >> Am I leaving anybody out?

Portland? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Sebring? (is it permanent?) "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <9rlg6a$ivo$[email hidden]>, "don hodgdon" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Sears Point? > > > >don > > > >Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:nMfD7.744766$[email hidden]... > >> There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in

America:

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> >> > >> Laguna Seca > >> Mid-O > >> Road America > >> RoadAtlanta > >> Watkins Glen > >> > >> Am I leaving anybody out? > > Portland? > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Fair question. I guess it's a "major" track if NASCAR bothers to visit, but local environmental extremists have managed to emasculate what was once a pretty interesting track. --Steve "don hodgdon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9rlg6a$ivo$[email hidden]...

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> Sears Point? > > don > > Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:nMfD7.744766$[email hidden]... > > There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in

America:

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> > > > Laguna Seca > > Mid-O > > Road America > > RoadAtlanta > > Watkins Glen > > > > Am I leaving anybody out? > >

Okay, Portland...but it was a pretty dinky track by any standard even before the euphemistically-named "Festival" chicane diminished it. It's certainly not in the same league as Riverside, Meadowdale, Bridgehampton, or even--in its present condition--V.I.R. To my mind, Sears, Portland and IRP have always been drag-strips with squiggely return roads. --Steve "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <9rlg6a$ivo$[email hidden]>, "don hodgdon" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Sears Point? > > > >don > > > >Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:nMfD7.744766$[email hidden]... > >> There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in

America:

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> >> > >> Laguna Seca > >> Mid-O > >> Road America > >> RoadAtlanta > >> Watkins Glen > >> > >> Am I leaving anybody out? > > Portland? > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Jeez, read the post: "I'm not counting Sebring or Cleveland (airport courses)...or Willow Springs or V.I.R. (de facto non-spectator tracks).... "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:T8BD7.61929$[email hidden]...

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> Sebring? (is it permanent?) > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <9rlg6a$ivo$[email hidden]>, "don hodgdon" > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Sears Point? > > > > > >don > > > > > >Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:nMfD7.744766$[email hidden]... > > >> There are fewer than a half-dozen major n.t. road courses left in > America: > > >> > > >> Laguna Seca > > >> Mid-O > > >> Road America > > >> RoadAtlanta > > >> Watkins Glen > > >> > > >> Am I leaving anybody out? > > > > Portland? > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > GPLRank - under construction... > > > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats > you > > with experience... > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > >

In article <prKD7.43958$[email hidden]>, "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> writes: >Okay, Portland...but it was a pretty dinky track by any standard even before >the euphemistically-named "Festival" chicane diminished it. It's certainly >not in the same league as Riverside, Meadowdale, Bridgehampton, or even--in >its present condition--V.I.R. To my mind, Sears, Portland and IRP have >always been drag-strips with squiggely return roads. > Hey, I never said I *liked* the track. As a matter of fact, I can't STAND the damn thing...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

It doesn't have to be overseas....just outside the US border. Canada and Mexico are doing just fine with CART. Here in Canada we will have 3 high attendance races (Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal) with 1/10th the US population. Could you imagine 30 high attendance races (potential) in the US? Marc. "btgoss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:n8eD7.34832$[email hidden]... > At this recent Austalian race, CART had over 110,000 people in attendance.I > heard the German and British races alos had very good attendance. So hereis > the solution for CART. > ONLY race overseas. I mean they can hardly draw flies here in the States,so > they should only race over seas. They can change the name to F1.5 and makea

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> fortune. Seems like a home run. > > btgoss > > > >