RT Timing Sync Bug!

**Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into the 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just been vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already hung yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who have done that already..........."rest in peace!" To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage time much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any time turned in well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is, if you were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29 range or so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times from a bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to 2:29's you get! """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which is confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13 days). We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their code and work with the sim community to make their product better as time goes on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank you." **Related Story** It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in GPL and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many of the historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by the rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit for being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread distribution to all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the Internet. The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all this emphasis on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen currently on VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funny how your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practice making it do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9 out of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin (usually because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field). Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When they respond with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their hairy arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we use for these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits them so much better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insects do not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopic mush), "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these "hotlappers!" Don't you think? From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of a driver they are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their current "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race they won last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything about their fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy! You should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with you and your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........spray him with RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He will kill you......(and this sport of sim racing). We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN" to come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today. It makes me want to cry. Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter Pabst-Racing

Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote on 01 Nov 2001: <snip> > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists > in GPL and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited > by many of the historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been > termed "aliens" by the rest of us.<snip> Interesting. I hope we all get to find out what the level is. Not that I care much, as I'm never going to get to that level in any case. It does seem a little bit odd that no-one's noticed, though - after all, there are plenty of "alien" replays around - has no-one ever checked them with a stopwatch? And let's not pretend that laptimes mean nothing at all - if I ever get below 8:20 at the ring I'm damn well going to shout about it.... :-) -- Sceptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense -- Carl Sagan The GPL Scrapyard returns (slowly): http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

On Thu, 01 Nov 2001 21:34:06 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in GPL >and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many of the >historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by the >rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A >list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit for >being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread distribution to >all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the Internet.

What a poor excuse for your 1:33 laptimes at Monza :) But seriously, this is very interesting. First thing that strikes me is you say 'it is THOUGHT..that a similar bug exists' and then you continue with 'it is BEING .. exploited'. Hmm.. And how can one exploit a timing bug on purpose, and even more, how can the techies you mention detect -who- exploits this on purpose? Very weird post Tom, more details please.. Anyway, you say it's being confirmed and validated. Please keep us informed with any concrete results. Andre PS Somehow I think this is the troll of all troll posts, but I consider you too professional for a cheap prank like this.

I think he's just trying to make excuses for his 1:33 lap times at Monza <G> It seems many of the people who have to luck into a good finishing position by others dropping out are trying to demean those of us who are faster than they :) -- Ian P (who USED to be quite good at GPL ;) ) <email invalid due to spam> Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 01 Nov 2001 21:34:06 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > >It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in GPL > >and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many of the > >historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by the > >rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > >list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit for > >being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread distribution to > >all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the Internet. > > What a poor excuse for your 1:33 laptimes at Monza :) > But seriously, this is very interesting. First thing that strikes me > is you say 'it is THOUGHT..that a similar bug exists' and then you > continue with 'it is BEING .. exploited'. Hmm.. >

> on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank > you." Nice you have the money to do that, but isnt it a bit misdirected, it seems you will be giving more money to the distributors and shops rather than to the developers. Why not buy one copy and send a cheque for the other 2 direct to Bugbear, or even better to charity. As for the rest of your post, how and why do you think you have the right to tell people how to play their sims, if someone gets fun out of a game by hotlapping what is wrong with that, I didnt notice any rules on the box of GPL saying no hotlapping and no telling anyone your best lap times. Seems to me you are just jealous of the fast guys lap times and you just want them all removed so you can claim to be the fastest. I suggest just relaxing and letting people do what they want.

Oh my god, some people are just so insecure.... Tom I have raced side by side with some of these aliens/insects in N4 and GPL, and to call them bad drivers and cheats is just wrong. All of the very quick drivers I've raced against are very clean racers and very nice people. Allot of the top GPL drivers for example Andy Wilke do LAN events and I've heard they do much the same laptimes that the do on their own PC's. They do not cheat they are just fast. I'm not as fast as them I can accept that and enjoy driving at my level without accusing anyone that is better of cheating, or trying to patch up my fragile ego by thinking they can't really drive in races like "I" can, why can't people like you get a life and do the same? Alex Cameron "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]...

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> **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into the > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just been > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already hung > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who have done > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage

time > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any time turnedin > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is, ifyou > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29 rangeor > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times from a > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to2:29's

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> you get! > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which is > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13

days). > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind theircode

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> and work with the sim community to make their product better as time goes > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank > you." > > > **Related Story** > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in GPL > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many of the > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by the > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit

for > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread distributionto > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout theInternet. > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all thisemphasis > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen currentlyon > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funny how > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practice makingit

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> do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9 out > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin (usually > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field). > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When they respond > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their

hairy > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we use for > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits them somuch

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> better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insects do > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopic mush), > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of a driver

they > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their current > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race they won > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything abouttheir > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy! You > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with you and > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........spray himwith > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He willkill

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> you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN" to > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today. It > makes me want to cry. > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > Pabst-Racing > >

I'm pretty sure if the problem existed in GPL it would be evident in the replay analyser. Plus, you can view a replay in GPL exactly as if you were driving and just literally see where they are better than you. Rally Trophy's physics clock problem is that apparently some people end up covering a shorter distance in the same period of time (ie some people's track "length" is shorter than others, as the real time clock is accurate, 3 minute is 3 minutes for everyone). If it were the same in GPL it would probably be pretty evident. Actually, it is; use the replay analyser to combine a lap of yours with a hotlapper's, they sync up perfectly every time, unlike the ghost car in RT. dc

On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 04:24:55 GMT, "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote: <snip> > Allot of the top GPL >drivers for example Andy Wilke do LAN events and I've heard they do much the >same laptimes that the do on their own PC's. I can confirm that, we had 3 GPL lan parties here in Holland and Andy for example visited 2 of them (he was ill during one of the lans) and he won them both. Well deserved I might add, the guy is so bloody fast AND consistent, amazing to watch. Same goes for all the other ALIENS who were there.. Roland Ernhstrom for example. We were driving in these hyperstims. Great equipment, but it takes some serious time to get used to them. Normally I can run '27s on Monza, now I could barely do '30s. Later that day when I got used to the hyper, I got back to my normal laptimes. Roland however, jumped into the hyper for the first time of his life and after a couple of laps he allready drove laps faster than my pb.. And I think most of us who had online races with the aliens know most of them are very good and consistent drivers. To be able to drive such fast laptimes requires you to understand the car and its limits to the fullest. Man, I rather have a race with 19 aliens online than with 19 people who barely can drive 1:33 laps at monza. Andre

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 04:24:55 GMT, "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > And I think most of us who had online races with the aliens know most > of them are very good and consistent drivers. To be able to drive such > fast laptimes requires you to understand the car and its limits to the > fullest. How could you not understand the car and it's limits to the fullest if you have 2,000 hours behind the wheel of the same sim and driven a few thousand laps around the same track? I think that's the point Tom is trying to make. -- David G Fisher

On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:03:44 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>How could you not understand the car and it's limits to the fullest if you >have 2,000 hours behind the wheel of the same sim and driven a few thousand >laps around the same track? > >I think that's the point Tom is trying to make. > >-- >David G Fisher

Because practice is not enough. I still can't do 1:26 laps on Monza after three years. Theoretically I know how to take every corner perfect, but still I never manage to take every corner perfect in a single lap. What the aliens have which I don't is called talent baby. Andre

On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 04:24:55 GMT, "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Oh my god, some people are just so insecure.... Tom I have raced side by >side with some of these aliens/insects in N4 and GPL, and to call them bad >drivers and cheats is just wrong. All of the very quick drivers I've raced >against are very clean racers and very nice people. Allot of the top GPL >drivers for example Andy Wilke do LAN events and I've heard they do much the >same laptimes that the do on their own PC's. They do not cheat they are just >fast. I'm not as fast as them I can accept that and enjoy driving at my >level without accusing anyone that is better of cheating, or trying to patch >up my fragile ego by thinking they can't really drive in races like "I" can,

Well said Alex, I do appreciate some of what Tom says and his description of "Johnny fast but last" is certainly true of some but not the majority. I'll happily quite my PB to someone if they ask, in the knowledge that I could run 5 laps within a couple of 10ths of it and in all likelyood match or beat it in a qual/race situation. I probably wouldn't make too much fuss about it though if I did. But if I'd run most of the race within a few 10ths of it (allowing for fuel early on) and gotten a sub .5 consistency rating in GPLRA then I am likely to remark on it and be particularly proud of it. I'm not mentally able to race at 95%, hence the nickname. If I could I'd probaly acheive this more often. I therefore accept the fact that I stand more chance of having an incident in a race. It is MUCH more difficult IMO to run consistent FAST laps in GPL than in real-life. I can (or have in the past) run a dozen laps within 2-3 10ths of each other. I think Tom sees all hot-lappers (which would include anyone who has an account at GPLRank) as people who would go to any lengths and try to drive way above themselves, crashing more often than not to get an extra few 10ths off their times. The number that appears on the pitboard to me is a measure of how well I've driven. If I compare my new PB with the old I can see it is usually smoother, more under control, with better track usage, nearer the apex's, using more of the track on entry and exit. Once I've done a 1:40 at a track I know I can then run 1:40s to 1:40.5s pretty consistently. I do recognise that in earlier days when I was still getting to grips with GPL I would come up with those odd lucky laps that beat prev PBs by a large margin and which I could never expect to get near again without similar luck. Thats just the learning curve of GPL. Now, my new PBs are based on better driving. I would finally say however that beyond a certain level GPL becomes very much a "game" and to be good at a game you need to fully exploit it. I think 1:28s at Monza can be achieved by simple good technical driving, but to get 1:26s you need to do other things (techniques) that exploit the GPL physics engine. Once learnt they can be used anywhere/anytime in so-called hot-lapping or racing. I have great respect for the top drivers in GPLRank because they are exceptionally good at the game of GPL. I have much more respect for the guy who's replay I may watch and he is driving smoothly, using all the track, hitting his apex's etc. often however these are the same guys ... Maxx

On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:18:17 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote:

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>On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:03:44 GMT, "David G Fisher" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>How could you not understand the car and it's limits to the fullest if you >>have 2,000 hours behind the wheel of the same sim and driven a few thousand >>laps around the same track? >> >>I think that's the point Tom is trying to make. >> >>-- >>David G Fisher > >Because practice is not enough. I still can't do 1:26 laps on Monza >after three years. Theoretically I know how to take every corner >perfect, but still I never manage to take every corner perfect in a >single lap. What the aliens have which I don't is called talent baby.

And perhaps still, technical insight. If you know the parts of the car and what it's doing, things get easier to understand, and you begin to reason out WHY the car is driving like it is. Knowing how ARBs work in corners, how a Salisbury diff works, how a lower steering angle may be better than a higher steering angle in some fast corners, it all helps to understand your own racing. Still, that's not a guarantee for getting in the 1:26's. :) Talent is the required as much as anything else. Ruud van Gaal Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 14:49:43 GMT, [email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) wrote:

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>And perhaps still, technical insight. If you know the parts of the car >and what it's doing, things get easier to understand, and you begin to >reason out WHY the car is driving like it is. >Knowing how ARBs work in corners, how a Salisbury diff works, how a >lower steering angle may be better than a higher steering angle in >some fast corners, it all helps to understand your own racing. >Still, that's not a guarantee for getting in the 1:26's. :) Talent is >the required as much as anything else.

Good point, I only know the basics of how the cars work, and learned how the car reacts by practice, not by technical insight. Maybe it's time for me to study those Caroll Smith books I ordered from the States but never read.. :) Andre > >Ruud van Gaal >Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/ >Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

Buy one for me too Tom, Will ya?? I'll send you my address via personal email! hahaha "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]... I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank | you." | Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter | Pabst-Racing

On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 15:22:03 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote:

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>On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 14:49:43 GMT, [email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) >wrote: > >>And perhaps still, technical insight. If you know the parts of the car >>and what it's doing, things get easier to understand, and you begin to >>reason out WHY the car is driving like it is. >>Knowing how ARBs work in corners, how a Salisbury diff works, how a >>lower steering angle may be better than a higher steering angle in >>some fast corners, it all helps to understand your own racing. >>Still, that's not a guarantee for getting in the 1:26's. :) Talent is >>the required as much as anything else. > >Good point, I only know the basics of how the cars work, and learned >how the car reacts by practice, not by technical insight. >Maybe it's time for me to study those Caroll Smith books I ordered >from the States but never read.. :)

Indeed! They're probably good books (I hear a lot about them). 'Tune to win', right? :) May make a difference. Or at least help you understand why your setup gives you the responses that they do. Ruud van Gaal Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

In article <9rspmu$nfi$[email hidden]>, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> writes: >It seems many of the people who have to luck into a good finishing position >by others dropping out are trying to demean those of us who are faster than >they :) Hey - I *resent* that! Yeah, that's how I move up in the standings, but I've never demeaned those faster than me. The list is too long...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I agree about the talent idea, I've seen the reaction time discussions in VROC and sure enough, the aliens have incredibly quick reflexes. "Ruud van Gaal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 15:22:03 GMT, [email hidden] > (Andre Warringa) wrote: > > >On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 14:49:43 GMT, [email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) > >wrote: > > > >>And perhaps still, technical insight. If you know the parts of the car > >>and what it's doing, things get easier to understand, and you begin to > >>reason out WHY the car is driving like it is. > >>Knowing how ARBs work in corners, how a Salisbury diff works, how a > >>lower steering angle may be better than a higher steering angle in > >>some fast corners, it all helps to understand your own racing. > >>Still, that's not a guarantee for getting in the 1:26's. :) Talent is > >>the required as much as anything else. > > > >Good point, I only know the basics of how the cars work, and learned > >how the car reacts by practice, not by technical insight. > >Maybe it's time for me to study those Caroll Smith books I ordered > >from the States but never read.. :) > > Indeed! They're probably good books (I hear a lot about them). 'Tune > to win', right? :) > > May make a difference. Or at least help you understand why your setup > gives you the responses that they do. > > > Ruud van Gaal > Free car sim : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/racer/ > Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

"Maxx" wrote...

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> ><snip> > Well said Alex, > > <snip> > I'm not mentally able to race at 95%, hence the nickname. > If I could I'd probaly acheive this more often. I therefore > accept the fact that I stand more chance of having an > incident in a race.

Which is still sickeningly rare... your 100% is a lot more solid than my 8/10ths, Malcolm. I learned that the fast guys really were fast a long time ago... back in the GP2 days in fact. We used to do hotseat races via E-mail in semi-real time (i.e. receive savegame, do one's stint and send it off again). Even without unlimited time/laps they went 5sec/lap quicker than me. Meanwhile, I've improved, but, unfortunately, so have they!! ;-) Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

Its confirmed and you are so right. BUT NO WAY should you compare a 2.28 2.29 with a 2.23. Thats very very wrong. And so you will discover when final gets released. Same dudes ahead, u want to bet?. I happen to know one of the fastest and he will be on top of any ranking in any racing game he use. Now its time for RT! U will see... Dont close that window or throw away the rope for your hanging! To give u a hint. Forget about driving. Start looking at surroundings, anything really. What disturbs the clean line from A to B?. And how to avoid it? Anything goes! Thats what a mean hotlapper do and what makes him do alien times. The time bug does NOT explain for the total amount of seconds separating you from alien-status, trust me. If u dont want to leave the road for a handy shortcut cause u get a better angle at the next turn (again giving u much higher entrance speed to a long straight) then u are no alien and u will be stuck at 2.28-2.30. If u practice some more u can do 2.26 - I stayed on road all the way of course :) May be 2.25 low is possible, any faster u will need alternative routing. Cant be sure but at some point u will need it! That has nothing to do with time bug what so ever but about playing a game better than others. Give the hotlappers some respect. Computer-racing IS about times, exploiting a GAME all u can. Some lovely driving schools skills are great too but who drink the champagne and get kisses at finish? GPL, N4 races with many cars might get screwed up due to some fast clowns that do their tricks at the wrong place - not releated to doing a single offline time trial in a rally game. "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]...

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> **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into the > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just been > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already hung > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who have done > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage

time > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any time turnedin > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is, ifyou > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29 rangeor > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times from a > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to2:29's

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> you get! > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which is > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13

days). > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind theircode

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> and work with the sim community to make their product better as time goes > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank > you." > > > **Related Story** > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in GPL > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many of the > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by the > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit

for > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread distributionto > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout theInternet. > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all thisemphasis > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen currentlyon > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funny how > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practice makingit

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> do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9 out > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin (usually > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field). > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When they respond > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their

hairy > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we use for > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits them somuch

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> better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insects do > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopic mush), > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of a driver

they > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their current > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race they won > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything abouttheir > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy! You > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with you and > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........spray himwith > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He willkill

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> you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN" to > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today. It > makes me want to cry. > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > Pabst-Racing > >

[email hidden] (David G Fisher) wrote in <k4vE7.171763$[email hidden]>:

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> >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 04:24:55 GMT, "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> And I think most of us who had online races with the aliens know most >> of them are very good and consistent drivers. To be able to drive such >> fast laptimes requires you to understand the car and its limits to the >> fullest. > >How could you not understand the car and it's limits to the fullest if you >have 2,000 hours behind the wheel of the same sim and driven a few thousand >laps around the same track? > >I think that's the point Tom is trying to make. > >-- >David G Fisher

You think so David? Tom claims to have driven GPL since it's been out and still can't break 33s at Monza. I've introduced people to GPL that have done better in a single day. Either Toms a total bullshitter or a complete wanker behind the wheel, and judging from his claim to never having lost a Monza race I'd lean towards the former. -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C. GPLRank -15.04 MonsterRank 91.57 Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

Sorry Eldred, I wasn't aiming my comments at the people who aren't exceptionally fast. The thing I was annoyed by is more the way Tom comes here and states that the "alien" hotlappers are not good racers, well he's wrong. Of all the hotlappers I know over 90% of them can run lap after lap within a fraction of a second of their best times. I was reasonably fast in GPL (GPL rank -44 and 2nd place in UKGPL championship season 1) for a while but I moved onto other sims, but the "aliens" would constantly blow me away in a race. At the end of the day, IMO, it all comes down to two things, practice and raw talent. The aliens eg. Greger Huttu seem to have plenty of the raw talent so don't need much practice. Others, can set a reasonably quick time quite soon after having a sim but need a lot of practice to become good and may never reach the level of the Huttus of this world, the reason is lack of the raw talent. So once again, sorry if I caused any offence, it wasn't meant that way. -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <9rspmu$nfi$[email hidden]>, "Ian P" <[email hidden]> > writes: > > >It seems many of the people who have to luck into a good finishing position > >by others dropping out are trying to demean those of us who are faster than > >they :) > > Hey - I *resent* that! Yeah, that's how I move up in the standings, but I've > never demeaned those faster than me. The list is too long...<g> > > Eldred

Tom Pabst wrote:

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> It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in GPL > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many of the > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by the > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit for > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread distribution to > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the Internet.

Todd Bollox, everyone knows it's all done with the secret grip patch. Here's how it works. 1. Start GPL. 2. Hold down both ctrl keys while it loads. 3. Type 'more grip' while still holding the left ctrl key at the front screen. And there you go! A guy at papy told me that one, he said to keep it a secret though, so don't tell anyone. Gerry

Lol....perfect Gerry......maybe you are the only one who truly understands "what and why" I made that post. ROFLMAO.....such a perfect post/reply. Thanks, Tom "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Tom Pabst wrote: > > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists inGPL > > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many ofthe > > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" bythe > > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking creditfor > > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespreaddistribution to > > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout theInternet.

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> > Todd > > Bollox, everyone knows it's all done with the secret grip patch. Here's > how it works. > > 1. Start GPL. > > 2. Hold down both ctrl keys while it loads. > > 3. Type 'more grip' while still holding the left ctrl key at the front > screen. > > And there you go! > > A guy at papy told me that one, he said to keep it a secret though, so > don't tell anyone. > > Gerry

"Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below....... Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain that the RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real. The GPL "bug" was a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects." Some of you might call this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups. Who cares. You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as "insects" exist in online racing. The vast majority of drivers in the sim community support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping" because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form of motor racing. This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom never even come to this newsgroup. They are the "silent majority" in this online racing community. **To the "Insects" who posted below: 1. The rest of this post I will be talking down to you. I am stating that fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive your sim car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post your feat! I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect me or the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in a realistic manner. If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline, then you will never hear another word from me about this topic. Can you all do that, please? 2. Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule. 3. The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to learn, vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive a race car, any race car ....very fast. Every driver in real-world racing at any level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing) and they also know that the difference between successful winners and the rest of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers contain unique driving skills not possessed by every other driver. That simply does not exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this rule! 4. There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above. 5. I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least the one millionth time in the last five years): When you run lap after lap at 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anyway you want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind's hand-eye coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that same level. Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time, none...not one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are therefore training your self to crash! Is that clear? I can't think of how much clearer I can make it. When you (the Insects) are allowed so much prominence and public exposure within this sim community, without somebody speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" if you hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin to follow false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality of online sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines. 6. A question for the Insects: If we could somehow introduce the ultimate reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability for hotlapping crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to have in this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim? This is easy to do. We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time you crash your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it will automatically shut down your computer. Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run some more hot laps! How does that sound? Not very good, you say? Well....real-world racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called the same thing, you know? 7. In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, if an "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for everyone who knew him to call him an idiot! "Running up thousands and thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monza by a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational behavior for any human being. So....let me ask all the "insects" this question: "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing is sane and rational?" I just want to make sure I understand your position on this. Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you practice crashing all the time, guess what: You are going to crash all the time! Duh! WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER! Please get offline, go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming activity"....PLEASE! **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects............. 1. Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim drivers if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race puts us into at one time or another? Can you imagine how hard they might be to beat at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicing driving completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)? Can you imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice? Wow! Isn't it a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would be great, wouldn't it? 2. Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL online racing community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked him about how he practices in GPL. His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know him. Here is his response...... My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are all the same to me....both equally important): 1. Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs. 2. Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without going off track). 3. Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above. 3. If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly! I know you don't like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away from public limelight. But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only hurting yourself in the end. I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak up about this issue when ever you have the chance. Regards, (except to the Insects) Tom Pabst "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]...

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> **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into the > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just been > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already hung > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who have done > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage

time > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any time turnedin > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is, ifyou > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29 rangeor > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times from a > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to2:29's

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> you get! > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which is > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13

days). > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind theircode

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> and work with the sim community to make their product better as time goes > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank > you." > > > **Related Story** > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in GPL > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many of the > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by the > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit

for > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread distributionto > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout theInternet. > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all thisemphasis > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen currentlyon > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funny how > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practice makingit

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> do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9 out > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin (usually > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field). > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When they respond > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their

hairy > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we use for > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits them somuch

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> better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insects do > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopic mush), > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of a driver

they > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their current > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race they won > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything abouttheir > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy! You > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with you and > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........spray himwith > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He willkill

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> you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN" to > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today. It > makes me want to cry. > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > Pabst-Racing > >

Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... Tom, What about this insects that can do those unreal feats lap after lap day after day. Having raced against a couple in GPL, N4 and other games I can say there are some hotlappers who are just flat out fast lap after lap. Go insect hunting if you like Tom, but from the last time we raced online you need a bit bigger gun to take on some of these insects you talk about. Dave

DAVID J ROBINSON wrote:

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> > Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... > > Tom, > > What about this insects that can do those unreal feats lap after lap day > after day. Having raced against a couple in GPL, N4 and other games I can > say there are some hotlappers who are just flat out fast lap after lap. > > Go insect hunting if you like Tom, but from the last time we raced online > you need a bit bigger gun to take on some of these insects you talk about. > > Dave

Hi Dave I wonder if, in the future then sim racing technology has evolved to near reality, the top teams will make their drivers do marathon simulated hotlap sessions? Bloody right they will! :) Gerry Gerry

From what I've read from and about you on r.a.s I thought you were a little strange. Now I'm convinced you need some psychiatric help, maybe you and DGF could get together for a group session. "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... <snip>

Tom Pabst wrote: > Lol....perfect Gerry......maybe you are the only one who truly understands > "what and why" I made that post. ROFLMAO.....such a perfect post/reply. What an incredibly low humour threshold you have. Gerry

What an amazing post ... ive never heard from anyone with less idea about racing ever. You seem to be jumping up and down and ranting at the world about your own lack of talent. Maybe you should try hotlapping, you might enjoy it :) Also, can you please explain why the fastest hotlappers are also, invariably, the best drivers (anyone who doesnt believe me download and SRM or MOG league race). dan "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... > "Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below....... > > Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain thatthe > RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real. The GPL "bug"was > a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects." Some of you mightcall > this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups. Who > cares. You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the > quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as"insects" > exist in online racing. The vast majority of drivers in the sim community > support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping" > because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form ofmotor

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> racing. This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom > never even come to this newsgroup. They are the "silent majority" in this > online racing community. > > **To the "Insects" who posted below: > > 1. The rest of this post I will be talking down to you. I am stating

that > fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not > respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive yoursim > car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in > which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post > your feat! I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim > racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join > online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect meor

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> the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in a realistic > manner. If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline, then > you will never hear another word from me about this topic. Can you all do > that, please? > > 2. Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule. > > 3. The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to

learn, > vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye > coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive a race > car, any race car ....very fast. Every driver in real-world racing at any > level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing)and

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> they also know that the difference between successful winners and the rest > of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers contain unique > driving skills not possessed by every other driver. That simply does not > exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this > rule! > > 4. There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of > racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above. > > 5. I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least the > one millionth time in the last five years): When you run lap after lap at > 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anyway

you > want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind's hand-eye > coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that > same level. Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time, none...not > one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more > than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are > therefore training your self to crash! Is that clear? I can't think ofhow > much clearer I can make it. When you (the Insects) are allowed so much > prominence and public exposure within this sim community, without somebody > speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" ifyou > hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin tofollow > false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality of online > sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines. > > 6. A question for the Insects: If we could somehow introduce theultimate > reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability forhotlapping > crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of > repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to have in > this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim? This is easy todo. > We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time youcrash > your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it willautomatically > shut down your computer. Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a > credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then > your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run somemore > hot laps! How does that sound? Not very good, you say?Well....real-world > racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called the same > thing, you know? > > 7. In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, ifan > "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for > everyone who knew him to call him an idiot! "Running up thousands and > thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monzaby > a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational > behavior for any human being. So....let me ask all the "insects" this > question: "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your > crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing issane > and rational?" I just want to make sure I understand your position onthis. > Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all > your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race > because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you > practice crashing all the time, guess what: You are going to crash allthe > time! Duh! WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER! Please getoffline,

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> go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming > activity"....PLEASE! > > > **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects............. > > 1. Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim

drivers > if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on > learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid > sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think > their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car > stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race putsus > into at one time or another? Can you imagine how hard they might be tobeat > at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicingdriving > completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find > ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)? Can you > imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice? Wow! Isn'tit > a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would begreat, > wouldn't it? > > 2. Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL onlineracing > community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked him about > how he practices in GPL. His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know > him. Here is his response...... > > My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are allthe

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> same to me....both equally important): > > 1. Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs. > 2. Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without going > off track). > 3. Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium > without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above. > > 3. If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in > private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this > prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly! I know you

don't > like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away frompublic

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> limelight. But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only hurting > yourself in the end. I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak up > about this issue when ever you have the chance. > > Regards, (except to the Insects) > > Tom Pabst > > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]... > > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally > > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into

the > > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've justbeen > > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have alreadyhung > > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who havedone

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> > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage > time > > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any time turned > in > > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is, if > you > > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29

range > or > > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at > > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's > > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times froma

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> > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to > 2:29's > > you get! > > > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which is > > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug > > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13 > days). > > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final > > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good > > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their > code > > and work with the sim community to make their product better as time

goes

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> > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank > > you." > > > > > > **Related Story** > > > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in

GPL > > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many ofthe > > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" bythe > > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit > for > > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespreaddistribution

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> to > > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the > Internet. > > > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all this > emphasis > > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge > > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen

currently > on > > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funnyhow > > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practicemaking > it > > do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9out > > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin(usually

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> > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field). > > > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When they respond > > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their > hairy > > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we use

for > > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits them so > much > > better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insectsdo

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> > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopic mush), > > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of a driver > they > > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their

current > > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race they won > > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything about > their > > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy! You > > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with youand

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> > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........spray him > with > > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He will > kill > > you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN"

to > > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today.It

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> > makes me want to cry. > > > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > > Pabst-Racing > > > > > >

Ok now let me see, so I as a BRD owner, who paid about �750 for my Pro Classic and BRD Game Frame Pro plus had my old wheel brought up to spec so I had a backup to fall back on just incase, and am in the top20 in the World for GPL am a cheater?? GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU STUPID ARROGANT LITTLE SHIT!!!! I am far from fucking impressed and am actually utterly livid that you should have the front (as BRD supplier for USA AFAIK) to imply what you are implying, you are a fuckwit of the highest order and I hope your gentials rot a hole through to your arsehole so you can disappear firmly up it forever you total and utter cock of a man. Thank you for your time. "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... > "Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below....... > > Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain thatthe > RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real. The GPL "bug"was > a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects." Some of you mightcall > this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups. Who > cares. You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the > quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as"insects" > exist in online racing. The vast majority of drivers in the sim community > support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping" > because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form ofmotor

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> racing. This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom > never even come to this newsgroup. They are the "silent majority" in this > online racing community. > > **To the "Insects" who posted below: > > 1. The rest of this post I will be talking down to you. I am stating

that > fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not > respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive yoursim > car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in > which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post > your feat! I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim > racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join > online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect meor

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> the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in a realistic > manner. If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline, then > you will never hear another word from me about this topic. Can you all do > that, please? > > 2. Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule. > > 3. The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to

learn, > vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye > coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive a race > car, any race car ....very fast. Every driver in real-world racing at any > level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing)and

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> they also know that the difference between successful winners and the rest > of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers contain unique > driving skills not possessed by every other driver. That simply does not > exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this > rule! > > 4. There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of > racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above. > > 5. I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least the > one millionth time in the last five years): When you run lap after lap at > 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anyway

you > want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind's hand-eye > coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that > same level. Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time, none...not > one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more > than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are > therefore training your self to crash! Is that clear? I can't think ofhow > much clearer I can make it. When you (the Insects) are allowed so much > prominence and public exposure within this sim community, without somebody > speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" ifyou > hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin tofollow > false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality of online > sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines. > > 6. A question for the Insects: If we could somehow introduce theultimate > reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability forhotlapping > crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of > repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to have in > this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim? This is easy todo. > We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time youcrash > your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it willautomatically > shut down your computer. Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a > credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then > your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run somemore > hot laps! How does that sound? Not very good, you say?Well....real-world > racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called the same > thing, you know? > > 7. In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, ifan > "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for > everyone who knew him to call him an idiot! "Running up thousands and > thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monzaby > a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational > behavior for any human being. So....let me ask all the "insects" this > question: "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your > crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing issane > and rational?" I just want to make sure I understand your position onthis. > Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all > your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race > because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you > practice crashing all the time, guess what: You are going to crash allthe > time! Duh! WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER! Please getoffline,

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> go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming > activity"....PLEASE! > > > **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects............. > > 1. Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim

drivers > if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on > learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid > sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think > their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car > stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race putsus > into at one time or another? Can you imagine how hard they might be tobeat > at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicingdriving > completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find > ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)? Can you > imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice? Wow! Isn'tit > a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would begreat, > wouldn't it? > > 2. Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL onlineracing > community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked him about > how he practices in GPL. His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know > him. Here is his response...... > > My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are allthe

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> same to me....both equally important): > > 1. Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs. > 2. Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without going > off track). > 3. Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium > without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above. > > 3. If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in > private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this > prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly! I know you

don't > like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away frompublic

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> limelight. But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only hurting > yourself in the end. I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak up > about this issue when ever you have the chance. > > Regards, (except to the Insects) > > Tom Pabst > > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]... > > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally > > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into

the > > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've justbeen > > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have alreadyhung > > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who havedone

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> > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage > time > > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any time turned > in > > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is, if > you > > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29

range > or > > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at > > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's > > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times froma

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> > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to > 2:29's > > you get! > > > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which is > > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug > > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13 > days). > > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final > > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good > > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their > code > > and work with the sim community to make their product better as time

goes

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> > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank > > you." > > > > > > **Related Story** > > > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in

GPL > > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many ofthe > > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" bythe > > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit > for > > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespreaddistribution

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> to > > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the > Internet. > > > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all this > emphasis > > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge > > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen

currently > on > > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funnyhow > > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practicemaking > it > > do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9out > > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin(usually

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> > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field). > > > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When they respond > > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their > hairy > > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we use

for > > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits them so > much > > better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insectsdo

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> > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopic mush), > > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of a driver > they > > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their

current > > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race they won > > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything about > their > > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy! You > > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with youand

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> > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........spray him > with > > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He will > kill > > you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN"

to > > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today.It

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> > makes me want to cry. > > > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > > Pabst-Racing > > > > > >

"Marc Kasai-Royal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s1s31$bbf$[email hidden]... > Ok now let me see, so I as a BRD owner, who paid about �750 for my Pro > Classic and BRD Game Frame Pro plus had my old wheel brought up to spec soI > had a backup to fall back on just incase, and am in the top20 in the World > for GPL am a cheater?? GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU STUPID ARROGANT LITTLESHIT!!!! > I am far from fucking impressed and am actually utterly livid that you > should have the front (as BRD supplier for USA AFAIK) to imply what youare > implying, you are a fuckwit of the highest order and I hope your gentials > rot a hole through to your arsehole so you can disappear firmly up it > forever you total and utter cock of a man. > > Thank you for your time. I with Marc on this one. I was intending to spend a fair chunk of my first 3D Freelance Contract on the new BRD gear when it comes out ( seveal hundred pounds) ... - but until I hear a retraction/appology from Tom, or that he has been sacked by BRD - then I will not be spending my money with a company that employees someone this incompetant and unknowledgeable about Simming, Racing and, frankly - life. Doug

In my opinion you Sir are one screw short of a set. I was planning on purchasing a BRD system from you, but from these posts I have changed my mind. I think you need to concentrate on doing what you want to do and letting other people do what they want.

Ive been involved with VROC and GPL since just about the beginning of the online community. In this time I have raced with Huttu, Weber, Greg Stewart, Firlein, Royal, Wilke, Davies, Grandis, Prydden, and every other "alien hotlapper" GPLer listed in the top50 at GPL rank. My current handicap places me 20th or so. For idoits like you Tom that like to think you know what your on about when clearly you dont. I have watched each one of these drivers come to VROC doing 30's at monza, crashing like everyother newbie that can't do 3 laps without crashing (sound familar to your dispostion?). They progress slowly with time, some at faster rates than others (usually takes a year or more to reach a -65rank even for the gifted), some are more talented than others, some to be frank couldnt drive a nail into a piece of wood.. There are drivers that can drive GPL easily and naturally, and those that work to be fast through effort and commitment. Andreas Wilke is a commitment driver, works at being fast. Where others like Weber, Huttu are more naturally gifted if you like. Ive raced and driven with each of the name drivers at the top for 2.5years in CL1, CL2, GPLWS 2.3.4, MOG, SRMelite, all the Top Pinacles of GPL racing.....blah blah. These insects as you quote them, hotlappers, arent at all hotlappers. They are just hot. I can race at 99% of my abilty for lap after lap, as can most of the top50 aliens. They can lap 100laps of monaco at qual speed taking fuel into account. These drivers are the special ones. They dont just do 3 laps and crash as you say, Its fully possible to do more than 3laps at 80-100%, as you say, only back in the darkages of 1.0 in October 99 could I only dream of 3 laps in a row without a spin. Since I along with alot of others can do full GP races in realistic damage at monaco and finish easily. This came with practice and time, you arent put on this earth with the ability to drive a car flat out and everyone has worded at it, top guys (aliens) included. Top guys are just that, Top. Whatever ways you have to justify your own lack of speed and talent they dont apply when talking of aliens. These guys have dedicated 2 years of there lives to this game. Most nights spend in VROC, racing, hotlapping chatting, all accounting to add to a professional status if you like. Took me 2.5years to reach the point i am at now and im still improving daily. Thing is the guys that are 0.5faster than me in qual have just learnt that bit quicker and had a faster ability to learn. Not everyone was cut out to be a top flight sim racer. But theres a large number of guys out there with the right ablilties and they have been focused via GPL allowing competitive people fo the highest order to project there desires for success throught a sim. The racing with the so called hotlappers is infact of highest standards obtainable online as they are the original top50 racers that infest all the top leagues as quoted above. The fastest league drivers are the fastest and cleanest racers in the Sim World. Ive met a number of the Top 20 in Holland at a LAN event. They are human, they are all competitive, and they are just as fast as they are online. Noone cheats, noone needs to. I have grown up with these guys on VROC, unlike you clearly, you have no idea what your talking about, your just dribbling like an incoherant old grannie. The faster the driver the more incontrol he is, and the more adept or talented he is, therefor he has more capacity of driving and racing at the same time. Take a normal race at monza, Its the twats that cant do a -32 like you that cause the trouble, as you arent incontrol, anyone above 1:29 in lotus isnt cut out to race cars. Those below 27.5 are cut out to race wheel to wheel. Every Monza race is ruined by the the 32+ crowd, where as the guys at the front the insect hotlappers are racing sub 27.5 and racing wheel to wheel and overtaking 2 times a lap. This is clean and perfectly mannered, racing of the highest possible standards. But then a car appears on the horizon, Its Mr.32+ weaving and running off line, lacking in abilty to look folward and backwards at the same time, as his limited mind powered is focused ahead. Suddenly the guy spins, or runs offline coming back on taking them out, not realising there are two cars not one but GPL only shows one at a time. Where the -27.5's are moving over on outlaps, using there mirrors, aware of who and what is infront and behind, experienced in the art of online racing taking into account warp. Races are all ruined by the slow and inexperienced talentless drivers, the real action takes place with the top50 GPL crowd, the aliens, the guys you cant catch. These guys drive at all the time 99% as Micheal Schumacher, Senna, Prost etc they are simply better at everything than you, hard pill to sallow as i can see your having troubles.. Theres a limited number and not many get to be aliens. GPL lets anyone have a stab at being Schumacher on a game. People all have the same chance. Thats why the aliens in GPL are so filtered. There as fast as the amount of time they spend playing. If Huttu where Hakkinen and Wilke, Schumacher, Id say there Virtual Racing talents are up there with reallife counterparts, these aliens are simply the cream of hotlaps, racing, racecraft, qualifying, line, stratergy, track learning ability, aggression control, mental stamina, concentration and everything required. You make lose generalisations about a group of people you clearly know nothing about. I for one as with most of my closest online GPL friends are part of this group. As part of this group I can tell you that what you say and think about GPL online is misguided poop. Ask the men that run the top leagues, Micheal Carver, Christophe Schrimer, Eric Cote who are the best GPLers in the world, they will all give the same answer, the guys at the front of grid, the aliens you refer to. I suppose being a person that made such flawed statements you woudn't be aware of these guys? If you were then you would have heard the names, experienced the racing and shut up by now. You have the wrong end of the stick, the further down the grid you go the worse the racing and drivers get. The aliens are the guys that made GPL what it is, without racers of this talent and speed there would be nothing to play GPL for. GPL as with real life has good and bad drivers, its funny that the only accusations of cheating and general dissaproval only come from people that cant get near or werent cut out to play hand eye co-ordination games, the ones better suited to knitting or something. On that note. I cant believe you say the bullshit you do. Maybe you can never be part of the elite. Maybe you dont race seriously and are annoyed by fast drivers. Well there are three options to help your angst, practice more, except there are guys far more talented than you or piss off. Ive heard also you are the US distributor for BRD...Who do you think you are gonna sell these wheels to. I have advised BRD products to the general % of VROC'ers. After your comments maybe ill start suggesting a different brand. These are the people who will be future customers. Id seriously suggest you do some research on the topics you bravely care to comment on. Saving yourself the unpleasant experience making yourself look like a complete twat. The society that contains the top50 aliens is a nice to place to be, there all great guys, they meet up, they love GPL. But theres always some slow and talentless mutt like you who starts waffling crap and making accusations about people and subjects you have no experience of. I arrived in VROC with one intention to become a master, I kinda got there I think, but its been hard slog as for most, your comments make people like me deeply angry as our efforts in raising GPL to new heights and containing a community online are swept under the carpet in a sea of unfounded bolox. Piss off fool! Regards David Powell (alien sim racer scum) "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... > "Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below....... > > Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain thatthe > RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real. The GPL "bug"was > a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects." Some of you mightcall > this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups. Who > cares. You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the > quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as"insects" > exist in online racing. The vast majority of drivers in the sim community > support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping" > because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form ofmotor

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> racing. This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom > never even come to this newsgroup. They are the "silent majority" in this > online racing community. > > **To the "Insects" who posted below: > > 1. The rest of this post I will be talking down to you. I am stating

that > fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not > respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive yoursim > car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in > which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post > your feat! I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim > racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join > online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect meor

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> the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in a realistic > manner. If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline, then > you will never hear another word from me about this topic. Can you all do > that, please? > > 2. Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule. > > 3. The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to

learn, > vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye > coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive a race > car, any race car ....very fast. Every driver in real-world racing at any > level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing)and

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> they also know that the difference between successful winners and the rest > of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers contain unique > driving skills not possessed by every other driver. That simply does not > exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this > rule! > > 4. There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of > racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above. > > 5. I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least the > one millionth time in the last five years): When you run lap after lap at > 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anyway

you > want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind's hand-eye > coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that > same level. Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time, none...not > one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more > than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are > therefore training your self to crash! Is that clear? I can't think ofhow > much clearer I can make it. When you (the Insects) are allowed so much > prominence and public exposure within this sim community, without somebody > speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" ifyou > hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin tofollow > false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality of online > sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines. > > 6. A question for the Insects: If we could somehow introduce theultimate > reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability forhotlapping > crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of > repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to have in > this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim? This is easy todo. > We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time youcrash > your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it willautomatically > shut down your computer. Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a > credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then > your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run somemore > hot laps! How does that sound? Not very good, you say?Well....real-world > racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called the same > thing, you know? > > 7. In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, ifan > "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for > everyone who knew him to call him an idiot! "Running up thousands and > thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monzaby > a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational > behavior for any human being. So....let me ask all the "insects" this > question: "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your > crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing issane > and rational?" I just want to make sure I understand your position onthis. > Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all > your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race > because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you > practice crashing all the time, guess what: You are going to crash allthe > time! Duh! WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER! Please getoffline,

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> go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming > activity"....PLEASE! > > > **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects............. > > 1. Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim

drivers > if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on > learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid > sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think > their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car > stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race putsus > into at one time or another? Can you imagine how hard they might be tobeat > at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicingdriving > completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find > ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)? Can you > imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice? Wow! Isn'tit > a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would begreat, > wouldn't it? > > 2. Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL onlineracing > community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked him about > how he practices in GPL. His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know > him. Here is his response...... > > My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are allthe

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> same to me....both equally important): > > 1. Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs. > 2. Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without going > off track). > 3. Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium > without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above. > > 3. If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in > private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this > prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly! I know you

don't > like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away frompublic

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> limelight. But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only hurting > yourself in the end. I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak up > about this issue when ever you have the chance. > > Regards, (except to the Insects) > > Tom Pabst > > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]... > > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally > > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into

the > > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've justbeen > > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have alreadyhung > > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who havedone

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> > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage > time > > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any time turned > in > > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is, if > you > > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29

range > or > > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at > > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's > > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times froma

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> > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to > 2:29's > > you get! > > > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which is > > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug > > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13 > days). > > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final > > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good > > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their > code > > and work with the sim community to make their product better as time

goes

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> > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank > > you." > > > > > > **Related Story** > > > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in

GPL > > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many ofthe > > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" bythe > > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit > for > > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespreaddistribution

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> to > > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the > Internet. > > > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all this > emphasis > > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge > > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen

currently > on > > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funnyhow > > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practicemaking > it > > do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9out > > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin(usually

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> > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field). > > > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When they respond > > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their > hairy > > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we use

for > > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits them so > much > > better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insectsdo

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> > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopic mush), > > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of a driver > they > > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their

current > > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race they won > > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything about > their > > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy! You > > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with youand

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> > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........spray him > with > > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He will > kill > > you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN"

to > > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today.It

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> > makes me want to cry. > > > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > > Pabst-Racing > > > > > >

Sorry if i interrupted a GPL debate in a RT subject :) Will repeat myself and correct what TP have said several times here in this group. The guys doing 2.23-24 are the greatest and u will never beat them, not in that game u wont. Probably not in any, ever. Claiming that ur own "real" 2.28-2.30 is about the same is definitely not true and u will not find anyone at BugBear who will accept that claim. I have seen that kind of logic before, even in games with no confirmed bugs - and it allways make me sad. Have lots of different faces like "waaaah my cpu is 200mhz slower than yours" etc. but same crap. Your desire to be faster than you really are is a bit too obvious but good work in finding the bug if it was u. Could be in other games too! But not in RT final version, also confirmed. So i suggest you start practicing real hard. And start preparing posts saying that those using shortcuts are killing the game and should not be allowed to participate in any online activity regarding RT. If you get addicted to RT and start comparing your times with the fastest (oh yes u will!) I have the feeling GPL will be switched with RT in a simular future post. JS "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... > "Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below....... > > Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain thatthe > RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real. The GPL "bug"was > a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects." Some of you mightcall > this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups. Who > cares. You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the > quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as"insects" > exist in online racing. The vast majority of drivers in the sim community > support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping" > because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form ofmotor

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> racing. This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom > never even come to this newsgroup. They are the "silent majority" in this > online racing community. > > **To the "Insects" who posted below: > > 1. The rest of this post I will be talking down to you. I am stating

that > fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not > respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive yoursim > car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in > which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post > your feat! I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim > racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join > online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect meor

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> the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in a realistic > manner. If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline, then > you will never hear another word from me about this topic. Can you all do > that, please? > > 2. Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule. > > 3. The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to

learn, > vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye > coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive a race > car, any race car ....very fast. Every driver in real-world racing at any > level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing)and

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> they also know that the difference between successful winners and the rest > of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers contain unique > driving skills not possessed by every other driver. That simply does not > exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this > rule! > > 4. There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of > racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above. > > 5. I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least the > one millionth time in the last five years): When you run lap after lap at > 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anyway

you > want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind's hand-eye > coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that > same level. Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time, none...not > one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more > than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are > therefore training your self to crash! Is that clear? I can't think ofhow > much clearer I can make it. When you (the Insects) are allowed so much > prominence and public exposure within this sim community, without somebody > speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" ifyou > hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin tofollow > false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality of online > sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines. > > 6. A question for the Insects: If we could somehow introduce theultimate > reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability forhotlapping > crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of > repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to have in > this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim? This is easy todo. > We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time youcrash > your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it willautomatically > shut down your computer. Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a > credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then > your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run somemore > hot laps! How does that sound? Not very good, you say?Well....real-world > racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called the same > thing, you know? > > 7. In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, ifan > "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for > everyone who knew him to call him an idiot! "Running up thousands and > thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monzaby > a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational > behavior for any human being. So....let me ask all the "insects" this > question: "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your > crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing issane > and rational?" I just want to make sure I understand your position onthis. > Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all > your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race > because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you > practice crashing all the time, guess what: You are going to crash allthe > time! Duh! WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER! Please getoffline,

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> go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming > activity"....PLEASE! > > > **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects............. > > 1. Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim

drivers > if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on > learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid > sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think > their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car > stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race putsus > into at one time or another? Can you imagine how hard they might be tobeat > at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicingdriving > completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find > ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)? Can you > imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice? Wow! Isn'tit > a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would begreat, > wouldn't it? > > 2. Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL onlineracing > community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked him about > how he practices in GPL. His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know > him. Here is his response...... > > My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are allthe

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> same to me....both equally important): > > 1. Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs. > 2. Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without going > off track). > 3. Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium > without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above. > > 3. If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in > private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this > prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly! I know you

don't > like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away frompublic

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> limelight. But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only hurting > yourself in the end. I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak up > about this issue when ever you have the chance. > > Regards, (except to the Insects) > > Tom Pabst > > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]... > > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally > > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into

the > > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've justbeen > > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have alreadyhung > > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who havedone

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> > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage > time > > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any time turned > in > > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is, if > you > > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29

range > or > > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at > > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's > > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times froma

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> > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to > 2:29's > > you get! > > > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which is > > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug > > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13 > days). > > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final > > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good > > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their > code > > and work with the sim community to make their product better as time

goes

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> > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank > > you." > > > > > > **Related Story** > > > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in

GPL > > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many ofthe > > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" bythe > > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit > for > > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespreaddistribution

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> to > > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the > Internet. > > > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all this > emphasis > > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge > > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen

currently > on > > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funnyhow > > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practicemaking > it > > do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9out > > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin(usually

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> > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field). > > > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When they respond > > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their > hairy > > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we use

for > > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits them so > much > > better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insectsdo

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> > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopic mush), > > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of a driver > they > > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their

current > > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race they won > > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything about > their > > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy! You > > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with youand

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> > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........spray him > with > > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He will > kill > > you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN"

to > > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today.It

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> > makes me want to cry. > > > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > > Pabst-Racing > > > > > >

Elitist windbag. Oh, and you're slow too. Marty Tom Pabst wrote:

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> "Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below....... > > Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain that the > RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real. The GPL "bug" was > a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects." Some of you might call > this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups. Who > cares. You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the > quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as "insects" > exist in online racing. The vast majority of drivers in the sim community > support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping" > because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form of motor > racing. This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom > never even come to this newsgroup. They are the "silent majority" in this > online racing community. > > **To the "Insects" who posted below: > > 1. The rest of this post I will be talking down to you. I am stating that > fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not > respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive your sim > car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in > which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post > your feat! I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim > racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join > online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect me or > the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in a realistic > manner. If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline, then > you will never hear another word from me about this topic. Can you all do > that, please? > > 2. Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule. > > 3. The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to learn, > vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye > coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive a race > car, any race car ....very fast. Every driver in real-world racing at any > level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing) and > they also know that the difference between successful winners and the rest > of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers contain unique > driving skills not possessed by every other driver. That simply does not > exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this > rule! > > 4. There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of > racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above. > > 5. I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least the > one millionth time in the last five years): When you run lap after lap at > 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anyway you > want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind's hand-eye > coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that > same level. Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time, none...not > one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more > than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are > therefore training your self to crash! Is that clear? I can't think of how > much clearer I can make it. When you (the Insects) are allowed so much > prominence and public exposure within this sim community, without somebody > speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" if you > hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin to follow > false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality of online > sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines. > > 6. A question for the Insects: If we could somehow introduce the ultimate > reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability for hotlapping > crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of > repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to have in > this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim? This is easy to do. > We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time you crash > your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it will automatically > shut down your computer. Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a > credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then > your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run some more > hot laps! How does that sound? Not very good, you say? Well....real-world > racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called the same > thing, you know? > > 7. In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, if an > "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for > everyone who knew him to call him an idiot! "Running up thousands and > thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monza by > a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational > behavior for any human being. So....let me ask all the "insects" this > question: "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your > crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing is sane > and rational?" I just want to make sure I understand your position on this. > Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all > your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race > because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you > practice crashing all the time, guess what: You are going to crash all the > time! Duh! WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER! Please get offline, > go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming > activity"....PLEASE! > > **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects............. > > 1. Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim drivers > if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on > learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid > sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think > their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car > stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race puts us > into at one time or another? Can you imagine how hard they might be to beat > at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicing driving > completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find > ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)? Can you > imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice? Wow! Isn't it > a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would be great, > wouldn't it? > > 2. Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL online racing > community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked him about > how he practices in GPL. His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know > him. Here is his response...... > > My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are all the > same to me....both equally important): > > 1. Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs. > 2. Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without going > off track). > 3. Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium > without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above. > > 3. If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in > private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this > prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly! I know you don't > like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away from public > limelight. But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only hurting > yourself in the end. I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak up > about this issue when ever you have the chance. > > Regards, (except to the Insects) > > Tom Pabst > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]... > > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally > > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into the > > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just been > > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already hung > > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who have done > > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage > time > > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any time turned > in > > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is, if > you > > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29 range > or > > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at > > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's > > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times from a > > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to > 2:29's > > you get! > > > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which is > > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug > > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13 > days). > > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final > > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good > > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their > code > > and work with the sim community to make their product better as time goes > > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank > > you." > > > > > > **Related Story** > > > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in GPL > > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many of the > > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by the > > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit > for > > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread distribution > to > > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the > Internet. > > > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all this > emphasis > > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge > > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen currently > on > > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funny how > > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practice making > it > > do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9 out > > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin (usually > > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field). > > > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When they respond > > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their > hairy > > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we use for > > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits them so > much > > better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insects do > > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopic mush), > > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of a driver > they > > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their current > > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race they won > > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything about > their > > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy! You > > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with you and > > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........spray him > with > > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He will > kill > > you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN" to > > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today. It > > makes me want to cry. > > > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > > Pabst-Racing > > > >

Wow and I thought I was being mean. Dave Marty U'Ren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Elitist windbag. > > Oh, and you're slow too. > > Marty > > Tom Pabst wrote: > > > "Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below....... > > > > Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain that

the > > RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real. The GPL "bug"was > > a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects." Some of you mightcall > > this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups. Who > > cares. You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the > > quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as"insects" > > exist in online racing. The vast majority of drivers in the simcommunity > > support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping" > > because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form ofmotor > > racing. This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom > > never even come to this newsgroup. They are the "silent majority" inthis > > online racing community. > > > > **To the "Insects" who posted below: > > > > 1. The rest of this post I will be talking down to you. I am statingthat > > fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not > > respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive yoursim > > car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in > > which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post > > your feat! I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim > > racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join > > online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect meor > > the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in arealistic > > manner. If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline,then > > you will never hear another word from me about this topic. Can you alldo > > that, please? > > > > 2. Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule. > > > > 3. The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard tolearn, > > vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye > > coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive arace > > car, any race car ....very fast. Every driver in real-world racing atany > > level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing)and > > they also know that the difference between successful winners and therest > > of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers containunique > > driving skills not possessed by every other driver. That simply doesnot

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> > exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this > > rule! > > > > 4. There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of > > racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above. > > > > 5. I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least

the > > one millionth time in the last five years): When you run lap after lapat > > 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anywayyou > > want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind'shand-eye > > coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that > > same level. Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time,none...not > > one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more > > than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are > > therefore training your self to crash! Is that clear? I can't think ofhow > > much clearer I can make it. When you (the Insects) are allowed so much > > prominence and public exposure within this sim community, withoutsomebody > > speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" ifyou > > hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin tofollow > > false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality ofonline > > sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines. > > > > 6. A question for the Insects: If we could somehow introduce theultimate > > reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability forhotlapping > > crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of > > repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to havein > > this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim? This is easy todo. > > We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time youcrash > > your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it willautomatically > > shut down your computer. Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a > > credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then > > your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run somemore > > hot laps! How does that sound? Not very good, you say?Well....real-world > > racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called thesame > > thing, you know? > > > > 7. In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, ifan > > "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for > > everyone who knew him to call him an idiot! "Running up thousands and > > thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monzaby > > a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational > > behavior for any human being. So....let me ask all the "insects" this > > question: "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your > > crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing issane > > and rational?" I just want to make sure I understand your position onthis. > > Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all > > your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race > > because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you > > practice crashing all the time, guess what: You are going to crash allthe > > time! Duh! WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER! Please getoffline, > > go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming > > activity"....PLEASE! > > > > **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects............. > > > > 1. Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as simdrivers > > if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on > > learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid > > sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think > > their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car > > stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every raceputs us > > into at one time or another? Can you imagine how hard they might be tobeat > > at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicingdriving > > completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find > > ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)? Can you > > imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice? Wow!Isn't it > > a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would begreat, > > wouldn't it? > > > > 2. Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL onlineracing > > community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked himabout > > how he practices in GPL. His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know > > him. Here is his response...... > > > > My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are allthe > > same to me....both equally important): > > > > 1. Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs. > > 2. Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish withoutgoing

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> > off track). > > 3. Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium > > without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above. > > > > 3. If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in > > private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this > > prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly! I know you

don't > > like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away frompublic > > limelight. But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are onlyhurting > > yourself in the end. I'm challenging you to end your silence and speakup

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> > about this issue when ever you have the chance. > > > > Regards, (except to the Insects) > > > > Tom Pabst > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]... > > > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > > > > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and

rally > > > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down intothe > > > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've justbeen > > > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have alreadyhung > > > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > > > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who havedone > > > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > > > > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > > > > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates anystage > > time > > > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any timeturned > > in > > > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is,if > > you > > > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29range > > or > > > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver(at > > > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and2:23's > > > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those timesfrom a

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> > > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to > > 2:29's > > > you get! > > > > > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > > > > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which

is > > > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and thisbug > > > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13 > > days). > > > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for thefinal > > > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have agood > > > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their > > code > > > and work with the sim community to make their product better as timegoes > > > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say,"thank > > > you." > > > > > > > > > **Related Story** > > > > > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists inGPL > > > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many ofthe > > > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" bythe > > > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak.A > > > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and takingcredit > > for > > > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespreaddistribution

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> > to > > > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the > > Internet. > > > > > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all this > > emphasis > > > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a

huge > > > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seencurrently > > on > > > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > > > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funnyhow > > > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practicemaking > > it > > > do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9out > > > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin(usually > > > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of thefield). > > > > > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > > > > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When theyrespond > > > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > > > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their > > hairy > > > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we usefor > > > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits themso > > much > > > better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > > > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insectsdo > > > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopicmush), > > > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > > > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > > > > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of adriver > > they > > > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in theircurrent > > > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race theywon > > > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything about > > their > > > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy!You > > > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with youand > > > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........sprayhim > > with > > > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He will > > kill > > > you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > > > > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN"to > > > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today.It

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> > > makes me want to cry. > > > > > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > > > Pabst-Racing > > > > > > >

Which one of the top GPL drivers are cheaters? Surely, if there is any truth in what you are saying, you must be able to give us names? Which one of the fast GPL drivers crash out 9 out of 10 laps? Give us names. I bet you can't. Jon Andersen > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in GPL > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many of the > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by the > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking creditfor > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread distributionto > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout theInternet. > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all thisemphasis > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen currentlyon > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funny how > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practice makingit > do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9 out > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin (usually > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field).

LMAO!!!!!! I have to chime in on this one...... Tom you made my day... hell you made my month buddy, I haven't had a laugh like that in a long time, I actually fell out of my chair reading Marc's reply.... WHAT A HOOT!!!! Chris

Neat-O! So when Smiley lapped me twice at Goodwood.... I was really kicking *his* ass? -- "Racing! - Science for the action minded." mark "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]... > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into the > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just been > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already hung > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who have done > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage time > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any time turned in > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is, if you > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29 range or > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times from a > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to 2:29's > you get! > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which is > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13 days). > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their code > and work with the sim community to make their product better as time goes > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank > you." > > > **Related Story** > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in GPL > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many of the > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by the > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit for > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread distribution to > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the Internet. > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all this emphasis > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen currently on > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funny how > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practice making it > do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9 out > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin (usually > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field). > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When they respond > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their hairy > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we use for > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits them so much > better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insects do > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopic mush), > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of a driver they > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their current > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race they won > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything about their > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy! You > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with you and > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........spray him with > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He will kill > you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN" to > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today. It > makes me want to cry. > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > Pabst-Racing > >

Who in the FARK is this tom or whoever he is. I mean what kind of pin dick would come on and write some dribble out of his arse saying how crap and inconsistant the fast guys are when he cant even break a 1.32 at monza HA!! It sounds like this guy is just bloody jealous or trying to justify his crappiness by downing the guys like Huttu, Wilke who make this sim fucking great. Theres always a bunch of tossers hiding in the corner bagging the fuck out of guys who are better than them. You remind me of 2 guys who have done the same things as you. Mark Beckman : Tosser who cant make tracks for shit, fugly pieces of undrivable crap which look like some fuckin retard put together, yet he thinks they are works of art?. Smart ass who thinks he's king fucking shit. When someone disagrees he will argue his balls of at em till they just give up in disgust. SHUT UP FOO Blade: I dunno this guys real name, but whoever the cunt is, he's king toss pot. He goes around telling everyone that most of the people are ahead of him are cheaters. Tom , you have ranked up there with the greatest fuckwits to ever grace the sims, and i feel sorry for ya, no the hotlappers arent the insects, its arrogant cockroaches like you to do their best to put down the guys that work hard for their success. I mean you know your probably gonna be fired now for talking your shit, i suppose its justice, because i dunno how anyone could employ such a dimwitted cockhead like yourself into a business thats main target is dedicated sim racers. Until your fired, i dont think your company will sell anything. So i hope BRD read all of this and bloody fire you and make sure you never work in the industry again. Regards Luke

On Sat, 03 Nov 2001 18:20:54 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: Don't really know why I'm spending my time replying to this load of drivel but what the heck.. > >The GPL "bug" was >a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects." Having read and responded to many of Tom's posts I know that he makes a habit of posting authorative looking posts which contain numerous innacuracies which, when dicussed or corrected by more knowledgable r.a.s. contributors he quitely slips out the back door. >The vast majority of drivers in the sim community >support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping" So, youv'e spoken to the vast majority of drivers in the sim community have you. Surprised you have time to post here and run a business as well. >because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form of motor >racing. This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom >never even come to this newsgroup. They are the "silent majority" in this >online racing community. Most of the people that frequent this newsgroup are serious sim drivers. Thats not to say that all serious sim drivers come here, we all know this is a very limited audience and yes, there is a huge silent majority. Because they are silent we don't know their views, neither you, nor I. If you feel so strongly about your views then why not contribute to the forums with a wider audience, GPLEA or High Gear, I'd put your nomex on first though. Hotlapping, I hate this term, it does not exist in real life. It's called Testing or Qualifying. To me, and I suspect most in the GPL community it simply means training ones self or tweaking ones setup to be able to drive faster. The ONLY way to drive faster, above a certain level, is to drive better. Better lines, better track usage, better "feel", higher concentration. Of course, as GPL is a game, and striving to go quicker and quicker inevitably leads to learning to exploit deficiencies in the physics model. But thats fine, it a game. I'm sure the fastest guys in GPL realise this and that their talent in GPL in no way makes them any better or even potentially better in real life Motor Racing. At best it will give them a 2-3 days start at a race driving school. The fact that they have learnt to concentrate very hard for x minutes/hours and have learnt to look ahead and anticipate in a (albeit virtual) race situation will help them when it come to racing in real-life. I know you are fairly active in the real motor racing field (not sure you've competed, but I know you have many contacts) and perhaps you are not aware that this distinction exists. You CAN compare people like Gregor Huttu to Schumacher as they are amongst the very best at what they do. But that would also be true for Gregor and whoever the World Tiddlywinks Champion is or the top Quake Players. Unfortunately, "driving" is such a big thing to the vast majority of the male population and take it as deeply offensive if you critisize their driving, almost above anything else. I think this does leak into GPL where it would not in Quake for instance as we don't have the same ego about how good we are at killing people. >**To the "Insects" who posted below: You obviously mean this as a derogatory term and is again designed to ellicit a heated response which only goes to prove that your intent is not to make a serious point, but just to stir up trouble. I'm not sure who first came up with Alien as a term for an exceptionally quick GPL player but it was purely meant as a fun term. I don't think anyone look upon being called an Alien as a badge of honour or some such. >1. The rest of this post I will be talking down to you. So, whats new. >I am stating that >fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not >respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive your sim >car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in >which you do not crash Lucky laps come when your still bad at driving GPL. I too get frustrated with those who drive round and around just trying to go quicker and not trying to LEARN how to drive better but I'm not about to tell them how to behave. I also accept that there may be a very few drivers who do attempt to drive at 101%+ and crash more often than not in search of those extra few 10ths. If thats how they get their kicks then fine, I do agree this is no attitude to bring into a race however and that there may be a few that do but I agree with an earlier poster. It's not the "fast" guys that tend to do this, or should I say JUST the fast guys. All speed levels of driver are capable of trying to drive behiond their ability, it's just that the "slower" guy will likley not be able to "save" the mistake, whereas the faster guy, by virtue of his obvious better car control will have more liklyhood of saving it. Also more likelyhood of being able to race closely and in control. I cannot conceive of any driver driving at less than 95%, to me I'd rather be asleep or watching TV, there is no fun in that. I link driving at 90% to concentrating at 90% and that driver is a danger to himself and all around him.

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>then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post >your feat! I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim >racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join >online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect me or >the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in a realistic >manner. If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline, then >you will never hear another word from me about this topic. Can you all do >that, please?

Don't presume to tell others what to do with the game that they have purchased. If you want to avoid these "people" then join a league, there are plenty of formal and informal ones, but if your not going to drive above 90% then I'd appreciate it if you'd steer clear of those that I'm involved in please, but, the choice is yours. >2. Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule. Fine, but seems to me you are talking about the exceptions being the rule, but I'm sure if you wish to persue this argument you can provide some testimony form the 1,000s of GPL drivers who agree with you.

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>3. The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to learn, >vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye >coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive a race >car, any race car ....very fast. Every driver in real-world racing at any >level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing) and >they also know that the difference between successful winners and the rest >of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers contain unique >driving skills not possessed by every other driver. That simply does not >exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this >rule!

You and I obviously differ in our interpretaion of very fast. I've worke as an instructor for 3 years and been involved with the Jim Russell School for more than that. ALL the people that turned up there to learn their trade thought they were good drivers and they could do what they saw on TV. 1 in 30 could be considered fast and have potential, of those about 1 in 10 will progress further than school/club races. Of those (which is now 1 in 300) will likely get into Professional MotorSport and maybe 1 in 10 of those will go on to have any major success (i.e. win an International Championship). Now, of course others who drop out may have eventually learnt to go quick and achieve success but you need to make your mark early or have lots of money to allow you to pay for your extra learning time. As an instructor though I do feel any driver can drive quickly and safely given training and dedication and be able to compete and have fun at club level. >4. There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of >racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above. > >5. I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least the >one millionth time in the last five years): Talk about wild exxagerations. I remember only one previous one, but accept there could be 3 or 4.

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> When you run lap after lap at >90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anyway you >want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind's hand-eye >coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that >same level. Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time, none...not >one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more >than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are >therefore training your self to crash! Is that clear?

Maybe to you but I've never read such drivel. I've never raced at less than 98% in real-life and know of no other even half decent driver who would drive at less than 95% unless perhaps with a huge lead. I know we are talking percentage here, so it's hard to quantify, but in fact, this percentage rule is often use in MotorRacing. All the professional drivers I've spoken to drive at 95%+ adn often at 99%. 100% is reserved for last laps or qualifying and would be very difficult for all but the fittest driver to perform at for more than a few laps. There are cases, like endurance races, where you are given a target lap time and/or have to be cautious with tires or a hot engine, fading brakes etc. but driving at 2 secs below your PB is not driving at 90% you are still driving IMO at 95%+ just that your priorities change.

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>I can't think of how >much clearer I can make it. When you (the Insects) are allowed so much >prominence and public exposure within this sim community, without somebody >speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" if you >hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin to follow >false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality of online >sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines.

IMO you have the wrong idea, yes, many of us have great respect for Greger, Greg Stewart, Chris Moses, Marc Kasai-Royal, Dave Powell and many others because they are good at what they do. I also have respect for John Rippert, who has never raced the AI or anyone else in GPL online or off, he is a good, competent driver. I could also name dozens of others who's GPLRanks I have no idea of, except that they are still +ve, as I can see they drive and race well and are improving. In fact I respect every driver I've ever raced with until they prove to be a total arsehole. None come to mind.

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>6. A question for the Insects: If we could somehow introduce the ultimate >reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability for hotlapping >crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of >repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to have in >this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim? This is easy to do. >We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time you crash >your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it will automatically >shut down your computer. Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a >credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then >your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run some more >hot laps! How does that sound? Not very good, you say? Well....real-world >racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called the same >thing, you know?

It's a game Tom, accept it. There are places to go to avoid your so-called insects, go there and be happy or get out in a real race car.

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>7. In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, if an >"insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for >everyone who knew him to call him an idiot! "Running up thousands and >thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monza by >a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational >behavior for any human being. So....let me ask all the "insects" this >question: "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your >crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing is sane >and rational?" I just want to make sure I understand your position on this. >Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all >your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race >because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you >practice crashing all the time, guess what: You are going to crash all the >time! Duh! WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER! Please get offline, >go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming >activity"....PLEASE!

It's a game, they don't have to pay in monetary terms for their crashes, I agree they are stupid if they are contunually crashing looking for that lucky PB to move up in GPLRank but it's their life. It's also up to them if they log into VROC and join an OPEN pickup race. I've never raced in a pickup race but I've heard that most are populated by perfectly sane people who try not to crash. The odd ones who do drive stupidly soon get known and avoided by the rest of the community. There are dozens of leagues and clubs for formal and informal racing, they are the places to go or rather than opt for the Monza pickup races which do seem to attract the hooligan element pick a less popular track or check the drivers list first. > >**To all the rest of us....the non-Insects............. I'm not an insect or an Alient, so I guess that includes me.

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> >1. Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim drivers >if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on >learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid >sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think >their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car >stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race puts us >into at one time or another? Can you imagine how hard they might be to beat >at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicing driving >completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find >ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)?

Speak for yourself. I only go offline to pass or avoid, period. >Can you >imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice? Wow! Isn't it >a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would be great, >wouldn't it? We have these people. I'm one and most of the drivers who belong to any of the formal/informal clubs/leagues are. I practice driving offline, running on cold tires. I try and think were to pass and try and drive intelligently and my first priority is always to avoid taking another driver out and spoiling his race. I know dozens of drivers like me and am sure there are 100s more. As I said previously though, I also wish to drive at close to 100% for the entire race, even if I'm winning by a big margin. If I can't then I won't race, theres no point for me. I also did this in my real- life racing career and was fortunate enough to never crash, never hit another car and only once go off track (where my priority was to not lose speed, so I kept my foot firmly planted). I do think it's a slight flaw in my driving in GPL as GPL is so much more difficult than real-life racingin many respects as you have so much less feedback and visual aids. Quit preaching and join a league/club. The racing you are looking for is already there, every night and has been all the time you have been whinging about the behaviour of the few loonies that exist in driving game. All the clubs/leagues I'm involved in will look at incidents in a race and issue any appropriate advice/warning or penalty. I'm often asked personally by drivers for my opinion on an incident they have been involved in, often to which they made the biggest contribution. Because they wish to learn and there is no book on racing strategy. There are some web sites that give general advice on do's and don't's in online GPL racing but they can't address every situation.

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>2. Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL online racing >community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked him about >how he practices in GPL. His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know >him. Here is his response...... > > My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are all the >same to me....both equally important): > > 1. Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs. > 2. Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without going >off track). > 3. Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium >without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above.

Exactly the same as mine and I suspect 90%+ of the drivers with whom I race approx 5 times a week in 4 different clubs/leagues. >3. If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in >private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this >prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly! I know you don't Really, how come? There is currently a post on a similar subject (although much more rationally argued) on the GPL GPLEA forum. At least this guy makes no sweeping generalisation and puts it down to what it really is BAD DRIVERS (or more specifically drivers with a bad attitude). >like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away from public >limelight. But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only hurting >yourself in the end. I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak up >about this issue when ever you have the chance. Well, I'm more than happy to hear from these people so I support your request. Just as I am more than happy to hear from people who have something contructive to say about this issue rather than make sweeping generalisations and hurl insults. People who actually race in clubs and leagues and have some semblance of credibility. >Regards, (except to the Insects) AFAIK insects do not have the ability to read, nor operate a computer so no need form the exclusion. If your referring to any driver with a negative GPLRank or sub 1:33 at Monza (3,150 incidentally) then I'm sure we could all care less. Maxx >Tom Pabst

Wow, he claims that? Tell ya what Tom, I challenge you to a Monza race when I recieve my wheel(tomorrow or Tuesday). And keep in mind that I haven't raced any sim at all in over a year so you should have the advantage...theoretically that is. Fact is I just booted up GPL and ran a few Monza laps with the keys for the hell of it. Guess what...33.25 first lap, 32.67 second lap...guess I'm an insect huh. You can say what you want about me, that I'm arrogant or overconfident, those who've known me over the past couple years in GPL would know that both can be true of me at times. But don't call me a cheat. Don't tell me I'm exploiting a bug because I held the Watkins Glen Eagle WR for a few months or because I ran 26s at Monza. And don't tell me I can't complete a race. I'll race anyone, anywhere. If I lose, fine I'll try harder next time. If I win, don't try and weasel your way out of it by saying I don't have any place in online racing. I was considering BRD for a long time, weighing the price againt the value..I had almost decided to buy one, even though I'd already paid for an MSFF. But I can guarantee you I won't be buying one from you. You were helpful to me when I inquired about getting a BRD shipped to me here in the states, and for that I've tried not to be too insulting, but you were way off the mark this time Mr. Pabst. "Don Scurlock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:914D74496dscurlock@news...

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> [email hidden] (David G Fisher) wrote in > <k4vE7.171763$[email hidden]>: > > > > >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 04:24:55 GMT, "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> > >> And I think most of us who had online races with the aliens know most > >> of them are very good and consistent drivers. To be able to drive such > >> fast laptimes requires you to understand the car and its limits to the > >> fullest. > > > >How could you not understand the car and it's limits to the fullest if

you > >have 2,000 hours behind the wheel of the same sim and driven a fewthousand

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> >laps around the same track? > > > >I think that's the point Tom is trying to make. > > > >-- > >David G Fisher > > > You think so David? Tom claims to have driven GPL since it's been out and

still > can't break 33s at Monza. I've introduced people to GPL that have donebetter > in a single day. Either Toms a total bullshitter or a complete wankerbehind > the wheel, and judging from his claim to never having lost a Monza raceI'd

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> lean towards the former. > > -- > Don Scurlock > Vancouver,B.C. > > GPLRank -15.04 > MonsterRank 91.57 > > Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site > http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

That truly has to be the biggest load of crap I've ever read. The "Silent majority" thing is a cop-out used for many topics, certainly not applicable here. A poll in RAS (or anywhere) will prove you are full of it. Where are the supporting posts, Tom? If you've ever loaded an "alien" replay into the replay analyser, you will find that it also includes the lap times of the other 100 odd laps they did, all within a second of the "ultimate lucky lap" as you put it. I was in awe of this talent when I saw it, you are obviously just jealous. Rafe Mc On Sat, 03 Nov 2001 18:20:54 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below....... > >Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain that the >RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real. The GPL "bug" was >a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects." Some of you might call >this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups. Who >cares. You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the >quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as "insects" >exist in online racing. The vast majority of drivers in the sim community >support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping" >because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form of motor >racing. This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom >never even come to this newsgroup. They are the "silent majority" in this >online racing community.

"David Powell" wrote > Ive been involved with VROC and GPL since just about the beginning of the > online community. In this time I have raced with Huttu, Weber, GregStewart, > Firlein, Royal, Wilke, Davies, Grandis, Prydden, and every other "alien > hotlapper" GPLer listed in the top50 at GPL rank. My current handicapplaces > me 20th or so.<snip> Totally agree Dave. As an average GPL'er albeit a consistent one, I can lap after lap in the mid 1:05s to low 1:6s at the Glen, what has always staggered me is that the fast guys are even more consistent than me running within a 10th or two lap after lap, and of course a couple of seconds quicker. Another poster suggested struggling to come to terms with others being faster at GPL and other driving sims is, well a driving thing. I admit I am crap at on-line Quake, UT. Even worse when my son thrashes me at Fifa. Yet suggest I am a poor driver that is another thing. Well I guess it is true, I am Mr average at driving sims. I am a reasonable racer and if only the other guys would slow down a bit I could prove it to them! No they are not going to slow down, cos they are in their own race and they are simply in a differnt league to me and the vast majority of racers. Watching these racers can be simply awesome, pumping in lap after lap at speeds the rest of us cannot manage on a clear track, whilst *racing* at close quarters. Damn the internet. Without it we could have (or even be) our local heroes (just like we had in rally & race clubs around the world). Yet here we having to compare ourselves with the best in the World. So it is hardly surprising even competent racers are outclassed. A bit like comparing your local race club hero with the Schumachers & Montoyas of the real racing scene. The lesser mortals just need to be realistic & philosophical about it rather than look for solace in classing the quick guys as aliens, insects or hotlappers. Tony

"Luke Mclean" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3be53bfc$0$3444$[email hidden]... > Who in the FARK is this tom or whoever he is. Try doing a search for the name "Tim McArther"+ "Pabst" at google groups to find out what ths Pabst charicter is realy like. http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=rec.autos.simulators > I mean what kind of pin dick would come on and write some dribble out ofhis

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> arse saying how crap and inconsistant the fast guys are when he cant even > break a 1.32 at monza HA!! > > It sounds like this guy is just bloody jealous or trying to justify his > crappiness by downing the guys like Huttu, Wilke who make this sim fucking > great. > > Theres always a bunch of tossers hiding in the corner bagging the fuck out > of guys who are better than them. You remind me of 2 guys who have done

the > same things as you. > > Mark Beckman : Tosser who cant make tracks for shit, fugly pieces of > undrivable crap which look like some fuckin retard put together, yet he > thinks they are works of art?. Smart ass who thinks he's king fuckingshit. > When someone disagrees he will argue his balls of at em till they justgive > up in disgust. > SHUT UP FOO > > Blade: I dunno this guys real name, but whoever the cunt is, he's kingtoss > pot. He goes around telling everyone that most of the people are ahead of > him are cheaters. He's a real nice guy too, ever heard the spitting image song "I've never met a nice South African" http://www.80snostalgia.com/classictv/spittingimage/sounds.html ;-) he's a racist apartheid supporting sack of shit. > > Tom , you have ranked up there with the greatest fuckwits to ever gracethe

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> sims, and i feel sorry for ya, no the hotlappers arent the insects, its > arrogant cockroaches like you to do their best to put down the guys that > work hard for their success. > > I mean you know your probably gonna be fired now for talking your shit, i > suppose its justice, because i dunno how anyone could employ such a > dimwitted cockhead like yourself into a business thats main target is > dedicated sim racers. Until your fired, i dont think your company will

sell > anything. So i hope BRD read all of this and bloody fire you and make sure > you never work in the industry again. > > Regards > > Luke Well said, Alex

I did a 28 after about 2hrs on the demo....I could see a 22-23 is possible maybe more once people have learnt the stage to its outer limits.. My 28 had errors, and I was still learning to carry more speed through sections and finding 0.5 here and there. No sync bug making these laps its just the same top GPLers I talk of in my last post. Tom you dribble crap like a lactose overdrive. David Powell (insect GPL Top20 scum) "mark jeangerard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nS5F7.2311$[email hidden]... > Neat-O! So when Smiley lapped me twice at Goodwood.... I was reallykicking

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> *his* ass? > > -- > > "Racing! - Science for the action minded." > > mark > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]... > > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and rally > > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into

the > > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've justbeen > > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have alreadyhung > > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who havedone

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> > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any stage > time > > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any time turned > in > > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is, if > you > > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29

range > or > > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver (at > > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and 2:23's > > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those times froma

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> > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to > 2:29's > > you get! > > > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which is > > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and this bug > > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13 > days). > > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for the final > > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have a good > > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their > code > > and work with the sim community to make their product better as time

goes

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> > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say, "thank > > you." > > > > > > **Related Story** > > > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in

GPL > > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many ofthe > > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" bythe > > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit > for > > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespreaddistribution

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> to > > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the > Internet. > > > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all this > emphasis > > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a huge > > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen

currently > on > > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funnyhow > > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practicemaking > it > > do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9out > > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin(usually

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> > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the field). > > > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When they respond > > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their > hairy > > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we use

for > > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits them so > much > > better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insectsdo

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> > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopic mush), > > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of a driver > they > > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their

current > > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race they won > > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything about > their > > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy! You > > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with youand

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> > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........spray him > with > > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He will > kill > > you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN"

to > > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today.It

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> > makes me want to cry. > > > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > > Pabst-Racing > > > > > > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... > "Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below....... Aliens/Insects of GPL that I'm aware of, in N4: Huttu: leading 3 N4 series (Escors, Finnish N4 league, FFRL) Ehnstr�m: leading ERL Wilke: Second in ERL, Second in Escors. W�ger: Sixth in Escors, Race winner in FFRL Moses: Third in ERL, 3 wins. So, there are 4 'big' N4 leagues in Europe, and A/I lead all of them. There are others, they're the first that spring to mind. One would suggest that, far from being hotlappers, they are just great drivers.

"Colin Harris" > > So, there are 4 'big' N4 leagues in Europe, and A/I lead all of them. > > There are others, they're the first that spring to mind. One would suggest > that, far from being hotlappers, they are just great drivers. agreed, yup. dave henrie

Guess we found another insect? Tom "Marc Kasai-Royal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s1s31$bbf$[email hidden]... > Ok now let me see, so I as a BRD owner, who paid about �750 for my Pro > Classic and BRD Game Frame Pro plus had my old wheel brought up to spec soI > had a backup to fall back on just incase, and am in the top20 in the World > for GPL am a cheater?? GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU STUPID ARROGANT LITTLESHIT!!!! > I am far from fucking impressed and am actually utterly livid that you > should have the front (as BRD supplier for USA AFAIK) to imply what youare

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> implying, you are a fuckwit of the highest order and I hope your gentials > rot a hole through to your arsehole so you can disappear firmly up it > forever you total and utter cock of a man. > > Thank you for your time. > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... > > "Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below....... > > > > Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain that > the > > RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real. The GPL "bug" > was > > a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects." Some of you might > call > > this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups. Who > > cares. You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the > > quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as > "insects" > > exist in online racing. The vast majority of drivers in the sim

community > > support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping" > > because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form of > motor > > racing. This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom > > never even come to this newsgroup. They are the "silent majority" inthis

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> > online racing community. > > > > **To the "Insects" who posted below: > > > > 1. The rest of this post I will be talking down to you. I am stating > that > > fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not > > respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive your > sim > > car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in > > which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post > > your feat! I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim > > racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join > > online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect me > or > > the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in a

realistic > > manner. If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline,then > > you will never hear another word from me about this topic. Can you alldo

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> > that, please? > > > > 2. Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule. > > > > 3. The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to > learn, > > vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye > > coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive a

race > > car, any race car ....very fast. Every driver in real-world racing atany > > level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing) > and > > they also know that the difference between successful winners and therest > > of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers containunique > > driving skills not possessed by every other driver. That simply doesnot

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> > exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this > > rule! > > > > 4. There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of > > racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above. > > > > 5. I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least

the > > one millionth time in the last five years): When you run lap after lapat > > 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anyway > you > > want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind'shand-eye > > coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that > > same level. Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time,none...not > > one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more > > than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are > > therefore training your self to crash! Is that clear? I can't think of > how > > much clearer I can make it. When you (the Insects) are allowed so much > > prominence and public exposure within this sim community, withoutsomebody > > speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" if > you > > hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin to > follow > > false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality ofonline

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> > sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines. > > > > 6. A question for the Insects: If we could somehow introduce the > ultimate > > reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability for > hotlapping > > crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of > > repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to have

in

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> > this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim? This is easy to > do. > > We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time you > crash > > your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it will > automatically > > shut down your computer. Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a > > credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then > > your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run some > more > > hot laps! How does that sound? Not very good, you say? > Well....real-world > > racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called the

same

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> > thing, you know? > > > > 7. In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, if > an > > "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for > > everyone who knew him to call him an idiot! "Running up thousands and > > thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monza > by > > a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational > > behavior for any human being. So....let me ask all the "insects" this > > question: "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your > > crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing is > sane > > and rational?" I just want to make sure I understand your position on > this. > > Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all > > your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race > > because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you > > practice crashing all the time, guess what: You are going to crash all > the > > time! Duh! WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER! Please get > offline, > > go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming > > activity"....PLEASE! > > > > > > **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects............. > > > > 1. Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim > drivers > > if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on > > learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid > > sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think > > their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car > > stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race

puts

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> us > > into at one time or another? Can you imagine how hard they might be to > beat > > at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicing > driving > > completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find > > ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)? Can you > > imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice? Wow!

Isn't

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> it > > a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would be > great, > > wouldn't it? > > > > 2. Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL online > racing > > community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked him

about

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> > how he practices in GPL. His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know > > him. Here is his response...... > > > > My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are all > the > > same to me....both equally important): > > > > 1. Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs. > > 2. Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without

going

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> > off track). > > 3. Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium > > without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above. > > > > 3. If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in > > private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this > > prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly! I know you > don't > > like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away from > public > > limelight. But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only

hurting > > yourself in the end. I'm challenging you to end your silence and speakup

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> > about this issue when ever you have the chance. > > > > Regards, (except to the Insects) > > > > Tom Pabst > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]... > > > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > > > > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and

rally

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> > > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down into > the > > > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've just > been > > > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have already > hung > > > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > > > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who have > done > > > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > > > > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > > > > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates any

stage > > time > > > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any timeturned > > in > > > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is,if > > you > > > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29 > range > > or > > > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver(at > > > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and2:23's > > > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those timesfrom

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> a > > > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to > > 2:29's > > > you get! > > > > > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > > > > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which

is > > > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and thisbug > > > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13 > > days). > > > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for thefinal > > > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have agood > > > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their > > code > > > and work with the sim community to make their product better as time > goes > > > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say,"thank

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> > > you." > > > > > > > > > **Related Story** > > > > > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in > GPL > > > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many of > the > > > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by > the > > > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak.

A > > > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and takingcredit

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> > for > > > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread > distribution > > to > > > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the > > Internet. > > > > > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all this > > emphasis > > > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a

huge

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> > > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seen > currently > > on > > > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > > > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funny > how > > > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practice > making > > it > > > do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9 > out > > > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin > (usually > > > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of the

field). > > > > > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > > > > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When theyrespond > > > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > > > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their > > hairy > > > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we use > for > > > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits themso > > much > > > better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > > > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insects > do > > > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopicmush), > > > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > > > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > > > > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of adriver > > they > > > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in their > current > > > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race theywon > > > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything about > > their > > > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy!You > > > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with you > and > > > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........sprayhim

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> > with > > > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He will > > kill > > > you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > > > > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN" > to > > > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today. > It > > > makes me want to cry. > > > > > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > > > Pabst-Racing > > > > > > > > > > > >

And, another one. Tom "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s1u8g$10onv5$[email hidden]... > > "Marc Kasai-Royal" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9s1s31$bbf$[email hidden]... > > Ok now let me see, so I as a BRD owner, who paid about �750 for my Pro > > Classic and BRD Game Frame Pro plus had my old wheel brought up to specso > I > > had a backup to fall back on just incase, and am in the top20 in theWorld > > for GPL am a cheater?? GO FUCK YOURSELF YOU STUPID ARROGANT LITTLE > SHIT!!!! > > I am far from fucking impressed and am actually utterly livid that you > > should have the front (as BRD supplier for USA AFAIK) to imply what you > are > > implying, you are a fuckwit of the highest order and I hope yourgentials

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> > rot a hole through to your arsehole so you can disappear firmly up it > > forever you total and utter cock of a man. > > > > Thank you for your time. > > I with Marc on this one. I was intending to spend a fair chunk of my first > 3D Freelance Contract on the new BRD gear when it comes out ( seveal

hundred > pounds) ... > > - but until I hear a retraction/appology from Tom, or that he has been > sacked by BRD - then I will not be spending my money with a company that > employees someone this incompetant and unknowledgeable about Simming,Racing > and, frankly - life. > > Doug > > >

Jasper.....there's far more sim racers dropping out of sim racing because they are tired of being wrecked by "hotlappers"....those are lost customers to us, as well. I'm sorry that you'd make a racing equipment buying decision based on whether you think I'm right or not. Is this reasonable? Certainly it is not. If the "hotlappers" would stay out of online races, then I could do what I (and the majority of sim drivers ) want to do, and they could do what they want to do. That is my point....isn't it? Tom "Jasper" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9J%E7.8490$[email hidden]... > In my opinion you Sir are one screw short of a set. I was planning on > purchasing a BRD system from you, but from these posts I have changed my > mind. I think you need to concentrate on doing what you want to do and > letting other people do what they want. > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:SifF7.20802$[email hidden]... <Snip!> > > If the "hotlappers" would stay out of online races, then I could do what I > (and the majority of sim drivers ) want to do, and they could do what they > want to do. That is my point....isn't it? >Tom, Well, they want to race online, don't they? Perhaps a different word would be more descriptive of the breed of drivers you are after. I was thinking more along the lines of "Hotcrashers". A few special servers could be set up to run 3 lap Monza races with only 10 mins of practice. Sort of an enduro race for these types. Lotus only, naturally. Cheers, Jens

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:E7fF7.20772$[email hidden]... > Guess we found another insect? > > Tom grow up and get a grip. 1:33s? no f***ing way. Are you handicapped? (I'm serious) Tom wrote: --------------- I have been racing GPL for 3 years, ever since the day it came out. I have never run faster at Monza than a 1:33....not ever, not in a race, not in practice! However, you don't win trophies for the fast lap, so who and the hell cares? You win trophies for winning races.......period. While I've never run a lap faster than 1:33 at Monza, I've also NEVER been beaten at Monza in any online race I've ever run there! So, there....that proves my point I think? Tom Pabst ----------

Lol....Marty.... One thing I can always count on, is that you'll jump on any "anti-Tom Pabst bandwagon" you can manage to find. After trading posts, VROC chats and so forth, for what Marty???.....more than 3 years with you now, I think?......I at least know what to expect from you. But that doesn't matter, I still like you because you are a clean driver and I can count on you rarely crashing anyone in a GPL online race....and you generally finish in the top 5 or better. That make you an asset to online racing as far as I'm concerned. Its been about 18 months or so since I raced GPL with any serious preparation and regularity. Even then, it was rare for me to beat you.....you are a good driver. Tom "Marty U'Ren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Elitist windbag. > > Oh, and you're slow too. > > Marty > > Tom Pabst wrote: > > > "Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below....... > > > > Before addressing some specific issues raised below, let me explain that

the > > RT Demo real-time clock, physics-clock "bug" was/is real. The GPL "bug"was > > a "bug light" - turned on to attract the "insects." Some of you mightcall > > this a "troll"....I have learned that's a bad word in newsgroups. Who > > cares. You can place any labels you want on my efforts to improve the > > quality of online racing....I will not stop this effort as long as"insects" > > exist in online racing. The vast majority of drivers in the simcommunity > > support my effort to eliminate or completely de-emphasize "hotlapping" > > because it ruins online racing as an enjoyable and competitive form ofmotor > > racing. This "majority" simply don't make posts on r.a.s, many of whom > > never even come to this newsgroup. They are the "silent majority" inthis > > online racing community. > > > > **To the "Insects" who posted below: > > > > 1. The rest of this post I will be talking down to you. I am statingthat > > fact up front so there's no misunderstanding on your part that I do not > > respect you as a sim driver, nor do I respect your ability to drive yoursim > > car at 90-100% max performance and occasionally, pull off a lucky lap in > > which you do not crash - then rush to various "Insect Websites" and post > > your feat! I wouldn't care what you did with your computer and the sim > > racing software you purchased....if you did it offline and did not join > > online races....therefore your actions and stupidity would not effect meor > > the majority of sim drivers who simply want to race online in arealistic > > manner. If all of you would agree to do your "gaming" stuff offline,then > > you will never hear another word from me about this topic. Can you alldo > > that, please? > > > > 2. Exceptions to a rule always exist and do not negate the rule. > > > > 3. The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard tolearn, > > vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable hand-eye > > coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to drive arace > > car, any race car ....very fast. Every driver in real-world racing atany > > level understands this fact (certainly at the top pro levels of racing)and > > they also know that the difference between successful winners and therest > > of the pack....is NOT the fact that the successful drivers containunique > > driving skills not possessed by every other driver. That simply doesnot

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> > exist in racing....anywhere .....and sim racing is no exception to this > > rule! > > > > 4. There is a very small number of real-world drivers in the annals of > > racing history in which I direct you to refer to number #2 above. > > > > 5. I will explain what you are doing to hurt sim racing (for at least

the > > one millionth time in the last five years): When you run lap after lapat > > 90-100% max, in search of that illusive fastest ever lap (defined anywayyou > > want to define it), what you do is train your subconscious mind'shand-eye > > coordination and micro-second decision making ability, to "race" at that > > same level. Since there is no driver ever (anywhere, any time,none...not > > one)......who can maintain 90-100% max performance race driving for more > > than a few laps without crashing or breaking their race car.....your are > > therefore training your self to crash! Is that clear? I can't think ofhow > > much clearer I can make it. When you (the Insects) are allowed so much > > prominence and public exposure within this sim community, withoutsomebody > > speaking up and reminding everyone that you are nothing but a "gamer" ifyou > > hotlap all the time, then new drivers to this sim community begin tofollow > > false leaders.....the entire community suffers since the quality ofonline > > sim "racing" (notice I said "racing" not online sim "driving") declines. > > > > 6. A question for the Insects: If we could somehow introduce theultimate > > reality into sim racing......defined as creating culpability forhotlapping > > crashes (or any crash).......defined as physical injury and/or cost of > > repair to your race car....how much interest would you continue to havein > > this "gaming activity" you engage in with a racing sim? This is easy todo. > > We could put a program on your boot drive that kicks in every time youcrash > > your GPL race car (or any other sim car you drive)....it willautomatically > > shut down your computer. Upon reboot, you will be required to enter a > > credit card number, and $200 will be charged to your credit card....then > > your computer will boot up back to the desktop and you can go run somemore > > hot laps! How does that sound? Not very good, you say?Well....real-world > > racing has a similar "boot/crash" program.....its just not called thesame > > thing, you know? > > > > 7. In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, ifan > > "insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for > > everyone who knew him to call him an idiot! "Running up thousands and > > thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monzaby > > a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational > > behavior for any human being. So....let me ask all the "insects" this > > question: "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your > > crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing issane > > and rational?" I just want to make sure I understand your position onthis. > > Because I want to remind you that although you don't have to pay for all > > your crashes......"but we do" when you crash us out of an online race > > because that's the only way you have practiced to race online.....you > > practice crashing all the time, guess what: You are going to crash allthe > > time! Duh! WE ARE NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANY LONGER! Please getoffline, > > go away, stop doing what you are doing....or find another "gaming > > activity"....PLEASE! > > > > **To all the rest of us....the non-Insects............. > > > > 1. Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as simdrivers > > if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on > > learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid > > sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think > > their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car > > stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every raceputs us > > into at one time or another? Can you imagine how hard they might be tobeat > > at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicingdriving > > completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find > > ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)? Can you > > imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice? Wow!Isn't it > > a shame we don't have these people to race against......that would begreat, > > wouldn't it? > > > > 2. Two days ago, a very prominent member of VROC and the GPL onlineracing > > community wrote an email to me in response to a question I asked himabout > > how he practices in GPL. His name is "Mac"....I'm sure many of you know > > him. Here is his response...... > > > > My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are allthe > > same to me....both equally important): > > > > 1. Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs. > > 2. Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish withoutgoing

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> > off track). > > 3. Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium > > without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above. > > > > 3. If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in > > private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this > > prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly! I know you

don't > > like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away frompublic > > limelight. But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are onlyhurting > > yourself in the end. I'm challenging you to end your silence and speakup

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> > about this issue when ever you have the chance. > > > > Regards, (except to the Insects) > > > > Tom Pabst > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:idjE7.9555$[email hidden]... > > > **Rally Trophy Demo Bug Found** > > > > > > For all of you who have become distrustful of your manly-hood and

rally > > > driving skills......trying to get from a 2:28-to-2:29 range down intothe > > > 2:22-to-2:23 range where the "aliens" are running.........you've justbeen > > > vindicated! It is unfortunate however, that many of you have alreadyhung > > > yourself or jumped out of 5th story window of your office building or > > > apartment complex....in total frustration. May those of you who havedone > > > that already..........."rest in peace!" > > > > > > To those of us who are left on this planet with us.......... > > > > > > **Take note: A bug was found in the RT demo that invalidates anystage > > time > > > much below 2:28 or so.......maybe even hire. Certainly, any timeturned > > in > > > well below that is completely bogus! Essentially what this means is,if > > you > > > were running your well-driven stage runs at around the 2:28 to 2:29range > > or > > > so.......that's your real time and you are a very good rally driver(at > > > least in RT you are). Those times are the same as the 2:22's and2:23's > > > others were getting, but their computers were reporting those timesfrom a

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> > > bogus coding bug.....their times really are the same as the 2:28's to > > 2:29's > > > you get! > > > > > > """""WATCH THE ALIENS SCATTER"""""" > > > > > > This is very important****** This applies only to the RT Demo which

is > > > confirmed by Bugbear codeheads - THE DEMO IS NOT FINAL CODE and thisbug > > > does not exist in the Rally Trophy Final Release code (due out in 13 > > days). > > > We can all rest assured, and wait in high-anticipation....for thefinal > > > release of RT....it will be awesome and we now know that we have agood > > > group of people at Bugbear (the developer) who will stand behind their > > code > > > and work with the sim community to make their product better as timegoes > > > on. BRAVO! Bugbear! I'm buying three copies of RT just to say,"thank > > > you." > > > > > > > > > **Related Story** > > > > > > It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists inGPL > > > and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many ofthe > > > historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" bythe > > > rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak.A > > > list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and takingcredit > > for > > > being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespreaddistribution

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> > to > > > all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout the > > Internet. > > > > > > The RT story, and so forth......just goes to show you why all this > > emphasis > > > on "hot lapping" in GPL and to a lesser extent, in N4....is such a

huge > > > waste of time and effort. It also leads to the phenomenon seencurrently > > on > > > VROC as follows: The new "hotlapper breed" that has been termed, > > > "aliens"...... races the same way as they "practice" hotlapping (funnyhow > > > your mind, and hand-eye coordination tends to do what you practicemaking > > it > > > do). They crash and burn themselves and anyone around them..........9out > > > of 10 races they enter. They win one of them with a 5 lap margin(usually > > > because another "hotlapper-alien" has taken out the rest of thefield). > > > > > > Fortunately.......These people are very easy to spot and avoid. > > > > > > Just ask them, "How good of a driver they are in GPL? When theyrespond > > > with telling you their PB times at every track....avoid them like the > > > plague......these people are like insects with anthrax spores on their > > hairy > > > arms and legs! Stay away from them! I vote we change the term we usefor > > > these "hotlappers" from **Aliens** to **Insects** .....it fits themso > > much > > > better! Aliens at least have an intelligence factor associated with > > > them....that is completely lacking from these "hotlappers".....insectsdo > > > not have any brains at all (or maybe just some green microscopicmush), > > > "insects" is a much better fit of a term, I think..... for these > > > "hotlappers!" Don't you think? > > > > > > From now on, when you ask someone on VROC or in N4 how good of adriver > > they > > > are, and they respond with telling you how they are doing in theircurrent > > > "Friday Nite" league, or they tell you about a good online race theywon > > > last night, or last weekend......and they never mention anything about > > their > > > fastest lap anywhere at any track. Then.......that is a good guy!You > > > should embrace him, get his email address, invite him to race with youand > > > your group.......nurture him! If you find an "insect"........sprayhim > > with > > > RAID! .....RUN FROM HIM! HE HAS ANTHRAX SPORES ALL OVER HIM! He will > > kill > > > you......(and this sport of sim racing). > > > > > > We've come all this way from the days of "Dega" pick-up races on "TEN"to > > > come to this? What a sad commentary that is..... on sim racing today.It

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> > > makes me want to cry. > > > > > > Tom Pabst - Insect Hunter > > > Pabst-Racing > > > > > > >

Chris... You know, when I was writing the original post, I was trying to write it in such a way as to come across as the biggest asshole I could possibly manage to write like........so as to "stir the shit" and get some dialogue going again on this important issue. I knew that people that knew me well would see through the words and know what I was doing. I was even pissing me off.....lol.....as I was writing some of that stuff! But, even though I was trying to be an asshole, I didn't even come close to some of the posts/replies that were written. Wow....!! At least we know we still have some passionate people left in online racing and they all haven't just gotten fed up and quit. Tom "Chris Moses" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> LMAO!!!!!! I have to chime in on this one...... Tom you made my day... > hell you made my month buddy, I haven't had a laugh like that in a long > time, I actually fell out of my chair reading Marc's reply.... WHAT A > HOOT!!!! > > Chris > >

Lol...Geesh, Andre....how could I have been more "blatant" about this post being what you call a "troll." Of course it is....you've been reading my posts and trading chat with me long enough to have recognized it right off. I didn't fool you too did I? Can't be. Tom "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 01 Nov 2001 21:34:06 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > > >It is thought by many code-savvy techies that a similar bug exists in GPL > >and has never been fixed. It is being, however, exploited by many of the > >historical "fast-guys" on VROC which have now been termed "aliens" by the > >rest of us. This "bug" is being confirmed and validated as we speak. A > >list of people known to have been exploiting this bug and taking credit

for > >being good sim drivers, is now in preparation for widespread distributionto > >all known league officials and sim racing websites throughout theInternet.

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> > What a poor excuse for your 1:33 laptimes at Monza :) > But seriously, this is very interesting. First thing that strikes me > is you say 'it is THOUGHT..that a similar bug exists' and then you > continue with 'it is BEING .. exploited'. Hmm.. > > And how can one exploit a timing bug on purpose, and even more, how > can the techies you mention detect -who- exploits this on purpose? > Very weird post Tom, more details please.. > > Anyway, you say it's being confirmed and validated. Please keep us > informed with any concrete results. > > Andre > > PS Somehow I think this is the troll of all troll posts, but I > consider you too professional for a cheap prank like this. >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RcgF7.20897$[email hidden]... > Chris... > > You know, when I was writing the original post, I was trying to write itin > such a way as to come across as the biggest asshole I could possiblymanage > to write like........so as to "stir the shit" and get some dialogue going > again on this important issue. I knew that people that knew me well would > see through the words and know what I was doing. I was even pissing me > off.....lol.....as I was writing some of that stuff! But, even though Iwas > trying to be an asshole, I didn't even come close to some of the > posts/replies that were written. Wow....!! At least we know we stillhave > some passionate people left in online racing and they all haven't just > gotten fed up and quit. > > Tom I dont know which is worst. A Tom Pabst who's an out and out twat... or a Tom Pabst who's taken to childish trolling. Either way - I'm still going to await a formal apology in VROC and on RAS for frankly disgusting comments before spending money with BRD. Doug

Tom, Don't suddenly realise your wrong and use the double bluff. Just admit you meant it, everyone hates you, your a fool, you probably have no friends as they all left you as your such a self centred pompous self interested whining old nonce. Everyone uses your choice of words when backing out of a bad situation caused by ones lack of tack or ability to muzzle ones misguided views. This is one of the most deranged pieces of self involved gamesmenship ive seen for some time! I suggest a therapy session to realign the parts of your mind that are clearly at conflict with each other, at the moment insanity has a firm grip over reality. David Powell """""""Chris... You know, when I was writing the original post, I was trying to write it in such a way as to come across as the biggest asshole I could possibly manage to write like........so as to "stir the shit" and get some dialogue going again on this important issue. I knew that people that knew me well would see through the words and know what I was doing. I was even pissing me off.....lol.....as I was writing some of that stuff! But, even though I was trying to be an asshole, I didn't even come close to some of the posts/replies that were written. Wow....!! At least we know we still have some passionate people left in online racing and they all haven't just gotten fed up and quit. Tom"""""""""

Oh BTW Tom...Chris was being sarcastic saying he was laughing at the absolute drivel you chose to write, no doubt he feels just as everyone bar you does here about your comments. Being as your not even involved in online GPL, and appear from your hole every month or so and come to VROC. Why would you give a rats arse about online racing, or trying "to "stir the shit" and get some dialogue going on on this important issue". You dont even involve yourself with our world, so kindly close the door and dont come back. You arent part of the VROC thing and the people there are far more aware of any issues, or problems relating to online racing in this format than you are. Your just a sad old git thats got nothing better to do than sit about on forums wallowing in your own pity. We are GPL, we are VROC, we are fine, we control what we do. You are a nonce with a big mouth who sticks his little claws and nose into other peoples business making lose and unfounded comments with little or no evidence or weight behind them im some bizarre personal game. Tom, put the Cocaine down step away from the Whiskey! David Powell > again on this important issue "David Powell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:... > Tom, > > Don't suddenly realise your wrong and use the double bluff. Just admit you > meant it, everyone hates you, your a fool, you probably have no friends as > they all left you as your such a self centred pompous self interested > whining old nonce. Everyone uses your choice of words when backing out ofa > bad situation caused by ones lack of tack or ability to muzzle ones > misguided views. > > This is one of the most deranged pieces of self involved gamesmenship ive > seen for some time! I suggest a therapy session to realign the parts ofyour

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> mind that are clearly at conflict with each other, at the moment insanity > has a firm grip over reality. > > David Powell > > > """""""Chris... > > You know, when I was writing the original post, I was trying to write it

in > such a way as to come across as the biggest asshole I could possiblymanage > to write like........so as to "stir the shit" and get some dialogue going > again on this important issue. I knew that people that knew me well would > see through the words and know what I was doing. I was even pissing me > off.....lol.....as I was writing some of that stuff! But, even though Iwas > trying to be an asshole, I didn't even come close to some of the > posts/replies that were written. Wow....!! At least we know we stillhave

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> some passionate people left in online racing and they all haven't just > gotten fed up and quit. > > Tom""""""""" > > >

Alright! Are you guys abusing your "Google Search Engine" privileges again? Did you run a name search or topic search, pull up the results and then take all statements as grouped in the same context? Huh? Where do I make reference anywhere in this string about racing at Monza? I do recall a post I made....as a joke.....to somebody about 9 or 10 days ago about their lap time at Monza. Let me go find it and put the whole post below.............be right back. Okay, here it is: "I have been racing GPL for 3 years, ever since the day it came out. I have never run faster at Monza than a 1:33....not ever, not in a race, not in practice! However, you don't win trophies for the fast lap, so who and the hell cares? You win trophies for winning races.......period. While I've never run a lap faster than 1:33 at Monza, I've also NEVER been beaten at Monza in any online race I've ever run there! So, there....that proves my point I think?" -10/25 on r.a.s. This post is in reference to a discussion about how long it took people to get under 1:30's at Monza...or something along those lines. This post was in direct response to Andre and Eldred.....where I'm clearly kidding them. I'm always give these guys hard times about the issue "podiums verses PB's" regarding a true measure of racing skills. "....I've never been beaten at Monza"....though I can't run better than a 1:33! My God people.....how much more absurd would that sentence have to be for you to consider it being a joke? Give me a break! For a few days later, Andre used this to give me a hard time back (rightfully so...it was a good one)....by saying things in reference to something I would say, or a point I would make........Andre's response would be something like, "Well, what do you know about "racing...or the topic".....a person who can't go faster than 1:33 at Monza!" That was a good one Andre, you got me on it every time! Do you guys really think I was being serious...or that Andre was making a serious statement? Wow..... Tom PS: Ok Andre....now you can really "get me." ....lol... You can chime in here and say that you really were seriously thinking I couldn't run a better lap at Monza than a 1:33...!!! And, if you do....I shall kill you. No...I will challenge you to a head-to-head competition at Monza. You write down your best time at Monza and I'll write down mine....we'll both post them simultaneously on this newsgroup....and we'll just see who is really the fastest. lol....... "Don Scurlock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:914D74496dscurlock@news...

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> [email hidden] (David G Fisher) wrote in > <k4vE7.171763$[email hidden]>: > > > > >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:[email hidden]... > >> On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 04:24:55 GMT, "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> > >> And I think most of us who had online races with the aliens know most > >> of them are very good and consistent drivers. To be able to drive such > >> fast laptimes requires you to understand the car and its limits to the > >> fullest. > > > >How could you not understand the car and it's limits to the fullest if

you > >have 2,000 hours behind the wheel of the same sim and driven a fewthousand

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> >laps around the same track? > > > >I think that's the point Tom is trying to make. > > > >-- > >David G Fisher > > > You think so David? Tom claims to have driven GPL since it's been out and

still > can't break 33s at Monza. I've introduced people to GPL that have donebetter > in a single day. Either Toms a total bullshitter or a complete wankerbehind > the wheel, and judging from his claim to never having lost a Monza raceI'd

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> lean towards the former. > > -- > Don Scurlock > Vancouver,B.C. > > GPLRank -15.04 > MonsterRank 91.57 > > Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site > http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

I have the right to base my purchasing descision on anything I like. And to me its perfectly reasonable to not want to buy something of someone quite as rude and arrogant as you sir. I feel there is no place in this world for idiots who want to inflict their ideas on others. I had wondered about further dealings with you, but these posts I find unnacceptable. I will be expressing my feelings to the people at BRD on this as well, as you are not doing them any favours in the pr department. "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SifF7.20802$[email hidden]... > Jasper.....there's far more sim racers dropping out of sim racing because > they are tired of being wrecked by "hotlappers"....those are lostcustomers

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> to us, as well. I'm sorry that you'd make a racing equipment buying > decision based on whether you think I'm right or not. Is this reasonable? > Certainly it is not. > > If the "hotlappers" would stay out of online races, then I could do what I > (and the majority of sim drivers ) want to do, and they could do what they > want to do. That is my point....isn't it? > > Tom > > > > "Jasper" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9J%E7.8490$[email hidden]... > > In my opinion you Sir are one screw short of a set. I was planning on > > purchasing a BRD system from you, but from these posts I have changed my > > mind. I think you need to concentrate on doing what you want to do and > > letting other people do what they want. > > > > > >

On Sun, 04 Nov 2001 18:57:53 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Chris... > >You know, when I was writing the original post, I was trying to write it in >such a way as to come across as the biggest asshole I could possibly manage >to write like. Tom, Congratulations, you did a fine job, I'm convinced. Now, if you want any serious comment from me or anyone else in r.a.s. or the rest of the GPL community then please prove to us otherwise. Do you really think this is a way to stir up constructive comment? damn I'm glad I'm not involved in any Pabst Racing Board Meetings guess you guys have a real hoot though. And, if you feel so strongly about this, why post here, to a very limited audience, most of whom you seemed to have rubbed up the wrong way before. If you see theres a problem what are YOU doing about it? Sorry, I've had enough of this, it's taking up too much of my time - guess if this was purely aimed at getting some response it worked, it's not often I post here these days and would much rather it would have been against a constructive, well argued thread. Maxx

Tom Pabst wrote:

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> PS: Ok Andre....now you can really "get me." ....lol... You can chime in > here and say that you really were seriously thinking I couldn't run a better > lap at Monza than a 1:33...!!! And, if you do....I shall kill you. No...I > will challenge you to a head-to-head competition at Monza. You write down > your best time at Monza and I'll write down mine....we'll both post them > simultaneously on this newsgroup....and we'll just see who is really the > fastest. lol.......

F*ck that girlie posting HOTLAP shite! Ask the gentleman out, Tom! Race the bugger, have at him on the track! You've never lost, after all! I'll tell you what, you can use my server, no one else will be allowed to connect. It will be just you two, head to head! When do you want to do it then? Gerry

"DGF"...?? TP "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:frYE7.983$[email hidden]... > From what I've read from and about you on r.a.s I thought you were alittle > strange. Now I'm convinced you need some psychiatric help, maybe you andDGF

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> could get together for a group session. > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... > > <snip> > >

Ah....a sensible "solution" is put forth.....from all this angry gibberish. Thanks, Jen. Tom "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UJfF7.7231$[email hidden]... > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse > news:SifF7.20802$[email hidden]... > <Snip!> > > > > If the "hotlappers" would stay out of online races, then I could do whatI > > (and the majority of sim drivers ) want to do, and they could do whatthey

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> > want to do. That is my point....isn't it? > > > Tom, > > Well, they want to race online, don't they? Perhaps a different word would > be more descriptive of the breed of drivers you are after. I was thinking > more along the lines of "Hotcrashers". A few special servers could be set

up

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> to run 3 lap Monza races with only 10 mins of practice. Sort of an enduro > race for these types. Lotus only, naturally. > > Cheers, > Jens > >

Luke... You should try to be more specific and direct......when you don't like something that a person says or posts. Man, I had a hard time figuring out if you were "for me, or against me" dude! Which is it? Tom "Luke Mclean" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3be53bfc$0$3444$[email hidden]... > Who in the FARK is this tom or whoever he is. > I mean what kind of pin dick would come on and write some dribble out ofhis

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> arse saying how crap and inconsistant the fast guys are when he cant even > break a 1.32 at monza HA!! > > It sounds like this guy is just bloody jealous or trying to justify his > crappiness by downing the guys like Huttu, Wilke who make this sim fucking > great. > > Theres always a bunch of tossers hiding in the corner bagging the fuck out > of guys who are better than them. You remind me of 2 guys who have done

the > same things as you. > > Mark Beckman : Tosser who cant make tracks for shit, fugly pieces of > undrivable crap which look like some fuckin retard put together, yet he > thinks they are works of art?. Smart ass who thinks he's king fuckingshit. > When someone disagrees he will argue his balls of at em till they justgive > up in disgust. > SHUT UP FOO > > Blade: I dunno this guys real name, but whoever the cunt is, he's kingtoss > pot. He goes around telling everyone that most of the people are ahead of > him are cheaters. > > Tom , you have ranked up there with the greatest fuckwits to ever gracethe

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> sims, and i feel sorry for ya, no the hotlappers arent the insects, its > arrogant cockroaches like you to do their best to put down the guys that > work hard for their success. > > I mean you know your probably gonna be fired now for talking your shit, i > suppose its justice, because i dunno how anyone could employ such a > dimwitted cockhead like yourself into a business thats main target is > dedicated sim racers. Until your fired, i dont think your company will

sell

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> anything. So i hope BRD read all of this and bloody fire you and make sure > you never work in the industry again. > > Regards > > Luke > > > >

Tom Pabst wrote: > > "DGF"...?? Stuff all this other stuff, you are duelling Andre at Monza. I shall be your second, so you get hotlapping, son! You need to be up to speed ASAP. We'll...er sorry...YOU'LL show this young upstart! Gerry

Colin... I was aware of those stats already. And, I could include at least another 20 or 30 GPL drivers I would include with those you listed. Please see my post/response of 11/03/01 at 10:20am......item #2 on the first list applies to these drivers and was included specifically because of them. Tom "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qmeF7.37017$[email hidden]...

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> > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... > > "Thank you" to everyone who posted comments below....... > > Aliens/Insects of GPL that I'm aware of, in N4: > Huttu: leading 3 N4 series (Escors, Finnish N4 league, FFRL) > Ehnstr�m: leading ERL > Wilke: Second in ERL, Second in Escors. > W�ger: Sixth in Escors, Race winner in FFRL > Moses: Third in ERL, 3 wins. > > So, there are 4 'big' N4 leagues in Europe, and A/I lead all of them. > > There are others, they're the first that spring to mind. One would suggest > that, far from being hotlappers, they are just great drivers. > >

>"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote > Lol...Geesh, Andre....how could I have been more "blatant" about this post > being what you call a "troll." Of course it is....you've been reading my > posts and trading chat with me long enough to have recognized it rightoff. > I didn't fool you too did I? Can't be. The only answer is : Don't troll. This thread served no purpose to our community, in retrospect. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Maxx.... In all due respect to you, but we've tried having "serious posts - constructive and well argued" discussions about this problem for more than 4 years now......and what happens is that recently, the online racing veterans, like you....don't participate (there are a few exceptions). And, the problem grows.....then subsides, then grows...then subsides. I remember a time that VROC was where all the serious drivers from N3 TEN were going to escape all the "gamers, hotlappers and crashers" that migrated from the online Dega races on TEN......which expanded into the rest of the pick up races on TEN. I remember racing on VROC for many months before I stopped running GPL......without have been crashed out of a single race...except for errors I made. I come back to GPL two months ago and what do I find? Its worse than it ever was on TEN......geeeesh! Jump over to N4 for some escape and you find its so bad over there that Papyrus is now banning drivers on their servers for crashing people! The gamers have gotten so blatant, they do it openly now? Its been my observation that in the last four years I've been actively racing online, the quality of driving in open, public pickup races.....is at an all-time low. Where are all the top drivers that used to run pickup races many nights a week? Where are the guys that would spend time with a newbie and help answer their questions, or take them into a track and show them the racing line? These guys were fast....but they also provided sound leadership to the newbie drivers to online racing. That seems to be gone....and I believe it is partly responsible for the sad state of affairs of online racing we now have. Where have they gone? Well, when I ask that question in a serious way to those who should know, the answer is always something like, "Well, they are tired of the wreckers too....so they've withdrawn to their own small little groups and leagues and they don't run open pick up races any more....nor do they help newbies any more." What happens then when a new driver shows up on VROC, or on Sierra.com? They don't have the benefit of contact with the top level drivers. They don't read their posts about how many hours they practice to be smooth and fast too, without crashing......or how many hours then spend working on a stable race set up. All of that stuff leads to new drivers becoming good drivers. What do they see? They see all this emphasis on "PB's and hotlapping" and the only thing they see that other drivers (who these new guys think are the veteran drivers) seem to value is..."what's your lowest lap at a given track!" So...these new drivers who want to be "recognized" too......go out on the net and download a whole bunch of setups, throw them on their cars, in search of that perfect setup that will give them a PB at a track that will be "like the fast guys"......and run lap after lap....crashing in 9 out of 10 of them (or so).....trying to set a good PB! That is doing nothing but practicing how to crash! That...is at the core of what this whole string is about........and while its not the only reason for online racing reaching this low point.....its one of them. If you don't agree with that, Maxx....then let me hear your reasoning for it. So, if I brought you out of your shell.....just for a short time.....thank you. I hope you weren't too inconvenienced by your contributing a little bit back to this sport. Regards, Tom "Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 04 Nov 2001 18:57:53 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Chris... > > > >You know, when I was writing the original post, I was trying to write itin > >such a way as to come across as the biggest asshole I could possiblymanage

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> >to write like. > > Tom, > > Congratulations, you did a fine job, I'm convinced. > Now, if you want any serious comment from me or anyone > else in r.a.s. or the rest of the GPL community then please > prove to us otherwise. > > Do you really think this is a way to stir up constructive > comment? damn I'm glad I'm not involved in any Pabst > Racing Board Meetings guess you guys have a real hoot > though. > > And, if you feel so strongly about this, why post here, > to a very limited audience, most of whom you seemed > to have rubbed up the wrong way before. > > If you see theres a problem what are YOU doing about > it? > > Sorry, I've had enough of this, it's taking up too much > of my time - guess if this was purely aimed at getting > some response it worked, it's not often I post here > these days and would much rather it would have been > against a constructive, well argued thread. > > Maxx >

Ouch! Tom "David Powell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s48tv$ons$[email hidden]...

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> Oh BTW Tom...Chris was being sarcastic saying he was laughing at the > absolute drivel you chose to write, no doubt he feels just as everyone bar > you does here about your comments. > > Being as your not even involved in online GPL, and appear from your hole > every month or so and come to VROC. Why would you give a rats arse about > online racing, or trying "to "stir the shit" and get some dialogue going

on > on this important issue". You dont even involve yourself with our world,so > kindly close the door and dont come back. You arent part of the VROC thing > and the people there are far more aware of any issues, or problemsrelating > to online racing in this format than you are. > > Your just a sad old git thats got nothing better to do than sit about on > forums wallowing in your own pity. We are GPL, we are VROC, we are fine,we

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> control what we do. You are a nonce with a big mouth who sticks his little > claws and nose into other peoples business making lose and unfounded > comments with little or no evidence or weight behind them im some bizarre > personal game. > > Tom, put the Cocaine down step away from the Whiskey! > > David Powell > > > again on this important issue > "David Powell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:... > > Tom, > > > > Don't suddenly realise your wrong and use the double bluff. Just admit

you > > meant it, everyone hates you, your a fool, you probably have no friendsas > > they all left you as your such a self centred pompous self interested > > whining old nonce. Everyone uses your choice of words when backing outof > a > > bad situation caused by ones lack of tack or ability to muzzle ones > > misguided views. > > > > This is one of the most deranged pieces of self involved gamesmenshipive > > seen for some time! I suggest a therapy session to realign the parts of > your > > mind that are clearly at conflict with each other, at the momentinsanity

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> > has a firm grip over reality. > > > > David Powell > > > > > > """""""Chris... > > > > You know, when I was writing the original post, I was trying to write it > in > > such a way as to come across as the biggest asshole I could possibly > manage > > to write like........so as to "stir the shit" and get some dialogue

going > > again on this important issue. I knew that people that knew me wellwould

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> > see through the words and know what I was doing. I was even pissing me > > off.....lol.....as I was writing some of that stuff! But, even though I > was > > trying to be an asshole, I didn't even come close to some of the > > posts/replies that were written. Wow....!! At least we know we still > have > > some passionate people left in online racing and they all haven't just > > gotten fed up and quit. > > > > Tom""""""""" > > > > > > > >

There are NO hotlappers anymore fool....! Which part of the Top50 hotlappers as you call them at GPLrank are not also the Top50 racers. Answer : they are both and everyone there and here bar youself can see that! "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SifF7.20802$[email hidden]... > Jasper.....there's far more sim racers dropping out of sim racing because > they are tired of being wrecked by "hotlappers"....those are lostcustomers

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> to us, as well. I'm sorry that you'd make a racing equipment buying > decision based on whether you think I'm right or not. Is this reasonable? > Certainly it is not. > > If the "hotlappers" would stay out of online races, then I could do what I > (and the majority of sim drivers ) want to do, and they could do what they > want to do. That is my point....isn't it? > > Tom > > > > "Jasper" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9J%E7.8490$[email hidden]... > > In my opinion you Sir are one screw short of a set. I was planning on > > purchasing a BRD system from you, but from these posts I have changed my > > mind. I think you need to concentrate on doing what you want to do and > > letting other people do what they want. > > > > > >

>Where are all the top drivers that used to run pickup > races many nights a week? Where are the guys that would spend time with a > newbie and help answer their questions, or take them into a track and show >them the racing line? grrrr!!! how many times have u been on vroc recently ???... the help (in running races and general driving help) is better than it was 1 1/2 yrs ago when i started online. When i first started, only the help of Bowt nettertodo stopped me from giving it up because i didnt know what to do and no-one would help me. Now 10 ppl would jump in with a chance to help (recently lots of non-english speakers have needed more help and vroc isnt really ready to recieve them, ive had to sit there a few times when someone said 'please help' in a language i dont understand and i just cant help them) From all the ppl who are here to help, (and yes...im that sad, sometimes i log onto vroc just to help out or goto a server with a newbie to help em with some stuff) i think u have no clue. Basically the world of gpl has got a lot faster in the last 2 yrs, i think this is your prob, nothing else. The level of help and support is much higher than it was. And the level of driving is MUCH higher, in terms of laptimes and racecraft .. if u think the faster racers have lost racecraft to get speed u are sorely and obviously mistaken. please get better at gpl before we all suffer dan leach "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GRiF7.21548$[email hidden]... > Maxx.... > > In all due respect to you, but we've tried having "serious posts - > constructive and well argued" discussions about this problem for more than4 > years now......and what happens is that recently, the online racing > veterans, like you....don't participate (there are a few exceptions).And, > the problem grows.....then subsides, then grows...then subsides. Iremember > a time that VROC was where all the serious drivers from N3 TEN were goingto > escape all the "gamers, hotlappers and crashers" that migrated from the > online Dega races on TEN......which expanded into the rest of the pick up > races on TEN. I remember racing on VROC for many months before I stopped > running GPL......without have been crashed out of a single race...exceptfor > errors I made. I come back to GPL two months ago and what do I find? Its > worse than it ever was on TEN......geeeesh! Jump over to N4 for someescape > and you find its so bad over there that Papyrus is now banning drivers on > their servers for crashing people! The gamers have gotten so blatant,they > do it openly now? > > Its been my observation that in the last four years I've been actively > racing online, the quality of driving in open, public pickup races.....isat > an all-time low. Where are all the top drivers that used to run pickup > races many nights a week? Where are the guys that would spend time with a > newbie and help answer their questions, or take them into a track and show > them the racing line? These guys were fast....but they also providedsound > leadership to the newbie drivers to online racing. That seems to be > gone....and I believe it is partly responsible for the sad state ofaffairs > of online racing we now have. Where have they gone? Well, when I askthat

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> question in a serious way to those who should know, the answer is always > something like, "Well, they are tired of the wreckers too....so they've > withdrawn to their own small little groups and leagues and they don't run > open pick up races any more....nor do they help newbies any more." > > What happens then when a new driver shows up on VROC, or on Sierra.com? > They don't have the benefit of contact with the top level drivers. They > don't read their posts about how many hours they practice to be smooth and > fast too, without crashing......or how many hours then spend working on a > stable race set up. All of that stuff leads to new drivers becoming good > drivers. What do they see? They see all this emphasis on "PB's and > hotlapping" and the only thing they see that other drivers (who these new > guys think are the veteran drivers) seem to value is..."what's your lowest > lap at a given track!" So...these new drivers who want to be "recognized" > too......go out on the net and download a whole bunch of setups, throw

them > on their cars, in search of that perfect setup that will give them a PB ata > track that will be "like the fast guys"......and run lap after > lap....crashing in 9 out of 10 of them (or so).....trying to set a goodPB!

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> That is doing nothing but practicing how to crash! > > That...is at the core of what this whole string is about........and while > its not the only reason for online racing reaching this low point.....its > one of them. If you don't agree with that, Maxx....then let me hear your > reasoning for it. > > So, if I brought you out of your shell.....just for a short time.....thank > you. I hope you weren't too inconvenienced by your contributing a little > bit back to this sport. > > Regards, > > Tom > > > > > > > > "Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sun, 04 Nov 2001 18:57:53 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >Chris... > > > > > >You know, when I was writing the original post, I was trying to write

it

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> in > > >such a way as to come across as the biggest asshole I could possibly > manage > > >to write like. > > > > Tom, > > > > Congratulations, you did a fine job, I'm convinced. > > Now, if you want any serious comment from me or anyone > > else in r.a.s. or the rest of the GPL community then please > > prove to us otherwise. > > > > Do you really think this is a way to stir up constructive > > comment? damn I'm glad I'm not involved in any Pabst > > Racing Board Meetings guess you guys have a real hoot > > though. > > > > And, if you feel so strongly about this, why post here, > > to a very limited audience, most of whom you seemed > > to have rubbed up the wrong way before. > > > > If you see theres a problem what are YOU doing about > > it? > > > > Sorry, I've had enough of this, it's taking up too much > > of my time - guess if this was purely aimed at getting > > some response it worked, it's not often I post here > > these days and would much rather it would have been > > against a constructive, well argued thread. > > > > Maxx > > > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:GRiF7.21548$[email hidden]... > Maxx.... ><Snip!>

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> That...is at the core of what this whole string is about........and while > its not the only reason for online racing reaching this low point.....its > one of them. If you don't agree with that, Maxx....then let me hear your > reasoning for it. > > So, if I brought you out of your shell.....just for a short time.....thank > you. I hope you weren't too inconvenienced by your contributing a little > bit back to this sport. >

Tom, For obvious reasons you don't see what's going on in the various "private" chat rooms. If you take for instance the Danish league (4 divisions, 16 drivers in each - some inactive halfway through the season), we usually meet in our own room and chat away. On non-league nights we usually have at least one passworded server running pretty much all the time with 6+ guys. We also join in open races, and complain about the level of racing there afterwards. :-) Helping new Danish drivers? No problem. I've done my bit of one-on-one training (and regretted it since when they blow past me 3 months later). Very valuable training to have a coach in the car with you for an hour or so. My point? I can see on the racelist (when it is up!) that other national leagues also use passworded servers for practice, and presumably they also chit-chat in private rooms. So even if the open forum/races are bad, VROC is far from the disaster area you make it sound like. The action is just not very visible. Cheers, Jens (not Jen! ;-) )

He's referring to David G Fisher, surely you should know the initials by now Tom? Rafe Mc On Sun, 04 Nov 2001 20:53:40 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"DGF"...?? > >TP > > >"Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:frYE7.983$[email hidden]... >> From what I've read from and about you on r.a.s I thought you were a >little >> strange. Now I'm convinced you need some psychiatric help, maybe you and >DGF >> could get together for a group session. >> >> "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... >> >> <snip> >> >> >

I agree David, it's a cover up to make him look like he doesn't REALLY believe all that stuff. What crap. Is Tom trying to say that he actually enjoys hotlapping and is fully in support of it? I don't think so... Rafe Mc On Sun, 4 Nov 2001 20:22:13 -0000, "David Powell" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Tom, > >Don't suddenly realise your wrong and use the double bluff. Just admit you >meant it, everyone hates you, your a fool, you probably have no friends as >they all left you as your such a self centred pompous self interested >whining old nonce. Everyone uses your choice of words when backing out of a >bad situation caused by ones lack of tack or ability to muzzle ones >misguided views. > >This is one of the most deranged pieces of self involved gamesmenship ive >seen for some time! I suggest a therapy session to realign the parts of your >mind that are clearly at conflict with each other, at the moment insanity >has a firm grip over reality. > >David Powell > > >"""""""Chris... > >You know, when I was writing the original post, I was trying to write it in >such a way as to come across as the biggest asshole I could possibly manage >to write like........so as to "stir the shit" and get some dialogue going >again on this important issue. I knew that people that knew me well would >see through the words and know what I was doing. I was even pissing me >off.....lol.....as I was writing some of that stuff! But, even though I was >trying to be an asshole, I didn't even come close to some of the >posts/replies that were written. Wow....!! At least we know we still have >some passionate people left in online racing and they all haven't just >gotten fed up and quit. > >Tom""""""""" > >

In article <SifF7.20802$[email hidden]>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes: >If the "hotlappers" would stay out of online races, then I could do what I >(and the majority of sim drivers ) want to do, and they could do what they >want to do. That is my point....isn't it? Names, Tom - names. Tell us which one of the hotlappers can't keep it on the track in a race, and keeps crashing into you. If we know who they are, then we can avoid them. If you're hosting a race, and one of them joins, do you eject him? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <qmeF7.37017$[email hidden]>, "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Aliens/Insects of GPL that I'm aware of, in N4: >Huttu: leading 3 N4 series (Escors, Finnish N4 league, FFRL) >Ehnstr�m: leading ERL >Wilke: Second in ERL, Second in Escors. >W�ger: Sixth in Escors, Race winner in FFRL >Moses: Third in ERL, 3 wins. > >So, there are 4 'big' N4 leagues in Europe, and A/I lead all of them.

Good grief - these guys are fast no matter WHAT they drive... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> My goals in a GPL race (league race or pick up race....they are all the >same to me....both equally important): > > 1. Avoid car contact with another competitor at all costs. > 2. Finish the race (or in a no-damage race = finish without going >off track). > 3. Practice hard between races so I can make it to the podium >without violating the goals in #1 and #2 above. > >3. If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in >private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this >prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly! I know you don't >like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away from public >limelight. But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only hurting >yourself in the end. I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak up >about this issue when ever you have the chance. > >Regards, (except to the Insects)

Come on, Tom. Do you really know ANYONE who *only* does hotlapping to the exclusion of any other activity? I'd say that all the people I've raced against(with the exception of the backward drivers) would follow the same goals as "Mac" listed above. I know I follow the same goals, and I'm not even that fast... Again, I don't know ANYONE(nobody at all) who ONLY runs in hotlap mode. Maybe that's why you can win at Monza without breaking 1:33. Like I said before, we must be in different races... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <My1F7.1594$[email hidden]>, "Jon Andersen" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Which one of the top GPL drivers are cheaters? Surely, if there is any truth >in what you are saying, you must be able to give us names? > >Which one of the fast GPL drivers crash out 9 out of 10 laps? > >Give us names. I bet you can't. > >Jon Andersen

Besides, who of us CAN'T turn it down a notch to run consistent in a race? We each have our limits - some higher than others. ALL of us have the capability to tone down the driving to survive a long race. To Tom - I have a certain 'threshold of effort' at every track I run. Below this threshold, I could run laps all day and THEN some without problems. When I try to CROSS that threshold, that's when I may have problems. But, how do you get better? By playing it safe, and staying within your limits? NO, by pushing back at those limits to expand them! Is it Huttu's fault that his limits are higher than yours and mine put together? I *guarantee* he could run a full race at Monza, be a second faster than either of us per lap, and probably be bored doing it. Why? He'd probably have to drop to 70% effort to be as slow as we are. Can *you* run laps at 70% effort? I certainly can... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote > Names, Tom - names. He can't tell names, because they don't exist. It's not the first time he does it, in the past he pointed fingers on other people. It's basically just "that group", or "those people", or "those insects". I've never seen him give examples, or fact, or replays, or anything! He's like a politician. But it's not like it's the first time Tom creates problems, the whole history of the community is filled with them. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Give it a rest you fool, your a noone on the track, your a slow, talentless waste of tarmac....you can justify your lack of talent to yourself anyway you wish but noone here is listening! They all think your an idoit everyone on VROC thinks that, go away! "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IJhF7.21499$[email hidden]... > Alright! Are you guys abusing your "Google Search Engine" privilegesagain? > Did you run a name search or topic search, pull up the results and thentake > all statements as grouped in the same context? Huh? > > Where do I make reference anywhere in this string about racing at Monza?I > do recall a post I made....as a joke.....to somebody about 9 or 10 daysago > about their lap time at Monza. Let me go find it and put the whole post > below.............be right back. > > Okay, here it is: > > "I have been racing GPL for 3 years, ever since the day it came out. Ihave > never run faster at Monza than a 1:33....not ever, not in a race, not in > practice! However, you don't win trophies for the fast lap, so who andthe

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> hell cares? > > You win trophies for winning races.......period. > > While I've never run a lap faster than 1:33 at Monza, I've also NEVER been > beaten at Monza in any online race I've ever run there! > So, there....that proves my point I think?" -10/25 on r.a.s. > > This post is in reference to a discussion about how long it took people to > get under 1:30's at Monza...or something along those lines. This post was > in direct response to Andre and Eldred.....where I'm clearly kidding them. > I'm always give these guys hard times about the issue "podiums verses

PB's" > regarding a true measure of racing skills. "....I've never been beaten at > Monza"....though I can't run better than a 1:33! My God people.....howmuch

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> more absurd would that sentence have to be for you to consider it being a > joke? > > Give me a break! > > For a few days later, Andre used this to give me a hard time back > (rightfully so...it was a good one)....by saying things in reference to > something I would say, or a point I would make........Andre's response

would

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> be something like, "Well, what do you know about "racing...or the > topic".....a person who can't go faster than 1:33 at Monza!" That was a > good one Andre, you got me on it every time! > > Do you guys really think I was being serious...or that Andre was making a > serious statement? > > Wow..... > > Tom > > PS: Ok Andre....now you can really "get me." ....lol... You can chime in > here and say that you really were seriously thinking I couldn't run a

better > lap at Monza than a 1:33...!!! And, if you do....I shall kill you.No...I

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> will challenge you to a head-to-head competition at Monza. You write down > your best time at Monza and I'll write down mine....we'll both post them > simultaneously on this newsgroup....and we'll just see who is really the > fastest. lol....... > > > > > > > > "Don Scurlock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:914D74496dscurlock@news... > > [email hidden] (David G Fisher) wrote in > > <k4vE7.171763$[email hidden]>: > > > > > > > >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:[email hidden]... > > >> On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 04:24:55 GMT, "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >> > > >> And I think most of us who had online races with the aliens know most > > >> of them are very good and consistent drivers. To be able to drive

such > > >> fast laptimes requires you to understand the car and its limits tothe

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> > >> fullest. > > > > > >How could you not understand the car and it's limits to the fullest if > you > > >have 2,000 hours behind the wheel of the same sim and driven a few > thousand > > >laps around the same track? > > > > > >I think that's the point Tom is trying to make. > > > > > >-- > > >David G Fisher > > > > > > You think so David? Tom claims to have driven GPL since it's been out

and

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> still > > can't break 33s at Monza. I've introduced people to GPL that have done > better > > in a single day. Either Toms a total bullshitter or a complete wanker > behind > > the wheel, and judging from his claim to never having lost a Monza race > I'd > > lean towards the former. > > > > -- > > Don Scurlock > > Vancouver,B.C. > > > > GPLRank -15.04 > > MonsterRank 91.57 > > > > Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site > > http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/ > >

At last some Tom! Through a sea of shit you cough up a couple of relevant points....if only you had used some tact in the first place... David Powell I still think your a self involved muppet though.... "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GRiF7.21548$[email hidden]... > Maxx.... > > In all due respect to you, but we've tried having "serious posts - > constructive and well argued" discussions about this problem for more than4 > years now......and what happens is that recently, the online racing > veterans, like you....don't participate (there are a few exceptions).And, > the problem grows.....then subsides, then grows...then subsides. Iremember > a time that VROC was where all the serious drivers from N3 TEN were goingto > escape all the "gamers, hotlappers and crashers" that migrated from the > online Dega races on TEN......which expanded into the rest of the pick up > races on TEN. I remember racing on VROC for many months before I stopped > running GPL......without have been crashed out of a single race...exceptfor > errors I made. I come back to GPL two months ago and what do I find? Its > worse than it ever was on TEN......geeeesh! Jump over to N4 for someescape > and you find its so bad over there that Papyrus is now banning drivers on > their servers for crashing people! The gamers have gotten so blatant,they > do it openly now? > > Its been my observation that in the last four years I've been actively > racing online, the quality of driving in open, public pickup races.....isat > an all-time low. Where are all the top drivers that used to run pickup > races many nights a week? Where are the guys that would spend time with a > newbie and help answer their questions, or take them into a track and show > them the racing line? These guys were fast....but they also providedsound > leadership to the newbie drivers to online racing. That seems to be > gone....and I believe it is partly responsible for the sad state ofaffairs > of online racing we now have. Where have they gone? Well, when I askthat

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> question in a serious way to those who should know, the answer is always > something like, "Well, they are tired of the wreckers too....so they've > withdrawn to their own small little groups and leagues and they don't run > open pick up races any more....nor do they help newbies any more." > > What happens then when a new driver shows up on VROC, or on Sierra.com? > They don't have the benefit of contact with the top level drivers. They > don't read their posts about how many hours they practice to be smooth and > fast too, without crashing......or how many hours then spend working on a > stable race set up. All of that stuff leads to new drivers becoming good > drivers. What do they see? They see all this emphasis on "PB's and > hotlapping" and the only thing they see that other drivers (who these new > guys think are the veteran drivers) seem to value is..."what's your lowest > lap at a given track!" So...these new drivers who want to be "recognized" > too......go out on the net and download a whole bunch of setups, throw

them > on their cars, in search of that perfect setup that will give them a PB ata > track that will be "like the fast guys"......and run lap after > lap....crashing in 9 out of 10 of them (or so).....trying to set a goodPB!

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> That is doing nothing but practicing how to crash! > > That...is at the core of what this whole string is about........and while > its not the only reason for online racing reaching this low point.....its > one of them. If you don't agree with that, Maxx....then let me hear your > reasoning for it. > > So, if I brought you out of your shell.....just for a short time.....thank > you. I hope you weren't too inconvenienced by your contributing a little > bit back to this sport. > > Regards, > > Tom > > > > > > > > "Maxx" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sun, 04 Nov 2001 18:57:53 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >Chris... > > > > > >You know, when I was writing the original post, I was trying to write

it

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> in > > >such a way as to come across as the biggest asshole I could possibly > manage > > >to write like. > > > > Tom, > > > > Congratulations, you did a fine job, I'm convinced. > > Now, if you want any serious comment from me or anyone > > else in r.a.s. or the rest of the GPL community then please > > prove to us otherwise. > > > > Do you really think this is a way to stir up constructive > > comment? damn I'm glad I'm not involved in any Pabst > > Racing Board Meetings guess you guys have a real hoot > > though. > > > > And, if you feel so strongly about this, why post here, > > to a very limited audience, most of whom you seemed > > to have rubbed up the wrong way before. > > > > If you see theres a problem what are YOU doing about > > it? > > > > Sorry, I've had enough of this, it's taking up too much > > of my time - guess if this was purely aimed at getting > > some response it worked, it's not often I post here > > these days and would much rather it would have been > > against a constructive, well argued thread. > > > > Maxx > > > >

>"David Powell" <[email hidden]> wrote > At last some Tom! Through a sea of shit you cough up a couple of relevant > points....if only you had used some tact in the first place... Except the fact that the current VROC drivers are worse then before. I personally don't think so :) It's just a progression. You start with pickups, then you start in leagues. Everybody does that. On the NROS we had that, with N3 also, N4 even more. In GPL, that also exist. Especially since there is still many offline racing going on, those people jump right into online leagues instead of pickup racing. Pickup racing in GPL isn't a "must", it's merely an after-side of the experience. It's just for fun. Look at the number of FD, F3 and F2 leagues! There's many dozens of them! Most of the "old pickup guys" don't run pickups anymore not because of the level of racing, but because we want something more out of our multiplayer experience. Pickup racing is dead, oh wait it's not dead because it never existed! -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <qmeF7.37017$[email hidden]>, "Colin Harris" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Aliens/Insects of GPL that I'm aware of, in N4: > >Huttu: leading 3 N4 series (Escors, Finnish N4 league, FFRL) > >Ehnstr�m: leading ERL > >Wilke: Second in ERL, Second in Escors. > >W�ger: Sixth in Escors, Race winner in FFRL > >Moses: Third in ERL, 3 wins. > > > >So, there are 4 'big' N4 leagues in Europe, and A/I lead all of them. > > Good grief - these guys are fast no matter WHAT they drive... > > Eldred

I have to apologise - there are FIVE 'big' leagues in Europe, I neglected to mention Sweden's league. And who's winning that, and won last season? Ehnstr�m.

Of course it served a purpose. It was entertaining, and it smoked out some real shit heads. When I am trying to decide whether or not to plunk down hard earned cash on the next 'GPL', I'm happy to know if the guy advising is just the typical Usenet asshole. Movie posts tell about someone's sense of reality... real racing accounts tell about someone's abilities to drive... All good information. When I read a thread about anything, whether it be hardware or software, I pretty much know who to listen to. All six of them. -- "Racing! - Science for the action minded." mark "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Y5iF7.4293$[email hidden]... > >"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Lol...Geesh, Andre....how could I have been more "blatant" about this post > > being what you call a "troll." Of course it is....you've been reading my > > posts and trading chat with me long enough to have recognized it right > off. > > I didn't fool you too did I? Can't be. > > > The only answer is : Don't troll. > > > This thread served no purpose to our community, in retrospect. > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

Ive raced an 11 lap race at monza, doing all low 27's and high 26's, im dont just pull of some wonderous lap all of a sudden offline, and neither do any of the top lets say 200 on GPLrank. So if you really think you can come in vroc and win a race doing 33's, mate your very much mistaken :) Luke "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IJhF7.21499$[email hidden]... > Alright! Are you guys abusing your "Google Search Engine" privilegesagain? > Did you run a name search or topic search, pull up the results and thentake > all statements as grouped in the same context? Huh? > > Where do I make reference anywhere in this string about racing at Monza?I > do recall a post I made....as a joke.....to somebody about 9 or 10 daysago > about their lap time at Monza. Let me go find it and put the whole post > below.............be right back. > > Okay, here it is: > > "I have been racing GPL for 3 years, ever since the day it came out. Ihave > never run faster at Monza than a 1:33....not ever, not in a race, not in > practice! However, you don't win trophies for the fast lap, so who andthe

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> hell cares? > > You win trophies for winning races.......period. > > While I've never run a lap faster than 1:33 at Monza, I've also NEVER been > beaten at Monza in any online race I've ever run there! > So, there....that proves my point I think?" -10/25 on r.a.s. > > This post is in reference to a discussion about how long it took people to > get under 1:30's at Monza...or something along those lines. This post was > in direct response to Andre and Eldred.....where I'm clearly kidding them. > I'm always give these guys hard times about the issue "podiums verses

PB's" > regarding a true measure of racing skills. "....I've never been beaten at > Monza"....though I can't run better than a 1:33! My God people.....howmuch

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> more absurd would that sentence have to be for you to consider it being a > joke? > > Give me a break! > > For a few days later, Andre used this to give me a hard time back > (rightfully so...it was a good one)....by saying things in reference to > something I would say, or a point I would make........Andre's response

would

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> be something like, "Well, what do you know about "racing...or the > topic".....a person who can't go faster than 1:33 at Monza!" That was a > good one Andre, you got me on it every time! > > Do you guys really think I was being serious...or that Andre was making a > serious statement? > > Wow..... > > Tom > > PS: Ok Andre....now you can really "get me." ....lol... You can chime in > here and say that you really were seriously thinking I couldn't run a

better > lap at Monza than a 1:33...!!! And, if you do....I shall kill you.No...I

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> will challenge you to a head-to-head competition at Monza. You write down > your best time at Monza and I'll write down mine....we'll both post them > simultaneously on this newsgroup....and we'll just see who is really the > fastest. lol....... > > > > > > > > "Don Scurlock" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:914D74496dscurlock@news... > > [email hidden] (David G Fisher) wrote in > > <k4vE7.171763$[email hidden]>: > > > > > > > >"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > >news:[email hidden]... > > >> On Fri, 02 Nov 2001 04:24:55 GMT, "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >> > > >> And I think most of us who had online races with the aliens know most > > >> of them are very good and consistent drivers. To be able to drive

such > > >> fast laptimes requires you to understand the car and its limits tothe

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> > >> fullest. > > > > > >How could you not understand the car and it's limits to the fullest if > you > > >have 2,000 hours behind the wheel of the same sim and driven a few > thousand > > >laps around the same track? > > > > > >I think that's the point Tom is trying to make. > > > > > >-- > > >David G Fisher > > > > > > You think so David? Tom claims to have driven GPL since it's been out

and

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> still > > can't break 33s at Monza. I've introduced people to GPL that have done > better > > in a single day. Either Toms a total bullshitter or a complete wanker > behind > > the wheel, and judging from his claim to never having lost a Monza race > I'd > > lean towards the former. > > > > -- > > Don Scurlock > > Vancouver,B.C. > > > > GPLRank -15.04 > > MonsterRank 91.57 > > > > Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site > > http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/ > >

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>PS: Ok Andre....now you can really "get me." ....lol... You can chime in >here and say that you really were seriously thinking I couldn't run a better >lap at Monza than a 1:33...!!! And, if you do....I shall kill you. No...I >will challenge you to a head-to-head competition at Monza. You write down >your best time at Monza and I'll write down mine....we'll both post them >simultaneously on this newsgroup....and we'll just see who is really the >fastest. lol.......

First, I'm the wrong guy to challenge, I'm not an alien. And it's the aliens that can't run 2 laps in a row without crashing right? You can't prove your ridiculous points with one race against one person where you can still win with sheer luck. The only way to prove your point is to join MOG, in the same division as Wilke, Huttu and the other aliens, and see how well you do there. If you are right, you should win MOG easily right? Full distance races on pro damage against the aliens, should be easy for you since all the aliens will crash on the first lap. But lol, I'll go along with your crap :) More than a year ago you asked me to race you and some Sears instructors online on the Sears track in GPL. I accepted immediately, looked forward to race against a couple of guys with the same passion for racing as I have, but unfortunately you never got back on it allthough I mailed you a couple of times about it. Let's make it a fun race instead of a wussie Monza race. Full distance race on the Ring, full damage. And let's invite some aliens too! If you agree, I'll ask Huttu, Wilke and the rest of those Verstappen-wannabe's if they will join us. Dave Powell, Marc Royal, how about it guys? With all these corners surely no alien will be able to finish a single lap, right! PS I will tell you a small secret: The aliens drive 7:50 laps on the Ring, so that can take it -really- easy, while you and I have to drive our ass off to avoid finishing 5 laps down. That's the whole point of this ridiculous discussion.. and you know damn good you're wrong. Cheers, Andre

On 05 Nov 2001 01:04:21 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <qmeF7.37017$[email hidden]>, "Colin Harris" ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>Aliens/Insects of GPL that I'm aware of, in N4: >>Huttu: leading 3 N4 series (Escors, Finnish N4 league, FFRL) >>Ehnstr�m: leading ERL >>Wilke: Second in ERL, Second in Escors. >>W�ger: Sixth in Escors, Race winner in FFRL >>Moses: Third in ERL, 3 wins. >> >>So, there are 4 'big' N4 leagues in Europe, and A/I lead all of them. > >Good grief - these guys are fast no matter WHAT they drive...

That's the point Eldred - these guys are not only good at GPL because they only practiced so much - give them any racing sim and they will kick your ass :) Andre

On Sun, 04 Nov 2001 20:09:08 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Lol...Geesh, Andre....how could I have been more "blatant" about this post >being what you call a "troll." Of course it is....you've been reading my >posts and trading chat with me long enough to have recognized it right off. >I didn't fool you too did I? Can't be. > >Tom As I said.. 'I consider you too professional for a cheap prank like this'.. Well, I was wrong I guess. :) Andre >> PS Somehow I think this is the troll of all troll posts, but I >> consider you too professional for a cheap prank like this.

On Sun, 04 Nov 2001 21:08:58 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Colin... > >I was aware of those stats already. And, I could include at least another >20 or 30 GPL drivers I would include with those you listed. Please see my >post/response of 11/03/01 at 10:20am......item #2 on the first list applies >to these drivers and was included specifically because of them. > >Tom

So, you can give us at least 36 drivers who are good hot-lappers and good racers yet not one insect. If these 36 are the exception then I'd expect you to be able to name at least 100 insects. Maxx

Ah. Please don't lower yourself to his level. Saying he's an apartheid supporting racist makes you just as bad as him when he says hotlappers have got anthrax at their arms. At the Legends Central-Forum someone has a signature that goes like this;'An idiot will drag you down to his level and beat you on experience'. (or something equal to that). So.. don't go there:) My 2 cents, Svend "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:P4dF7.10230$[email hidden]... > > "Luke Mclean" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3be53bfc$0$3444$[email hidden]... > > Who in the FARK is this tom or whoever he is. > > Try doing a search for the name "Tim McArther"+ "Pabst" at google groupsto

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> find out what ths Pabst charicter is realy like. > > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=rec.autos.simulators > > > I mean what kind of pin dick would come on and write some dribble out of > his > > arse saying how crap and inconsistant the fast guys are when he cant

even > > break a 1.32 at monza HA!! > > > > It sounds like this guy is just bloody jealous or trying to justify his > > crappiness by downing the guys like Huttu, Wilke who make this simfucking > > great. > > > > Theres always a bunch of tossers hiding in the corner bagging the fuckout

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> > of guys who are better than them. You remind me of 2 guys who have done > the > > same things as you. > > > > Mark Beckman : Tosser who cant make tracks for shit, fugly pieces of > > undrivable crap which look like some fuckin retard put together, yet he > > thinks they are works of art?. Smart ass who thinks he's king fucking > shit. > > When someone disagrees he will argue his balls of at em till they just > give > > up in disgust. > > SHUT UP FOO > > > > Blade: I dunno this guys real name, but whoever the cunt is, he's king > toss > > pot. He goes around telling everyone that most of the people are ahead

of > > him are cheaters. > > He's a real nice guy too, ever heard the spitting image song "I've nevermet

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> a nice South African" > > http://www.80snostalgia.com/classictv/spittingimage/sounds.html > > ;-) he's a racist apartheid supporting sack of shit. > > > > > Tom , you have ranked up there with the greatest fuckwits to ever grace > the > > sims, and i feel sorry for ya, no the hotlappers arent the insects, its > > arrogant cockroaches like you to do their best to put down the guys that > > work hard for their success. > > > > I mean you know your probably gonna be fired now for talking your shit,

i > > suppose its justice, because i dunno how anyone could employ such a > > dimwitted cockhead like yourself into a business thats main target is > > dedicated sim racers. Until your fired, i dont think your company will > sell > > anything. So i hope BRD read all of this and bloody fire you and makesure

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> > you never work in the industry again. > > > > Regards > > > > Luke > > Well said, > Alex > >

Ah. Please don't lower yourself to his level. Saying he's an apartheid supporting racist makes you just as bad as him when he says hotlappers have got anthrax at their arms. At the Legends Central-Forum someone has a signature that goes like this;'An idiot will drag you down to his level and beat you on experience'. (or something equal to that). So.. don't go there:) My 2 cents, Svend > > Who in the FARK is this tom or whoever he is. > Try doing a search for the name "Tim McArther"+ "Pabst" at google groups to

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> find out what ths Pabst charicter is realy like. > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=rec.autos.simulators > > I mean what kind of pin*** would come on and write some dribble out of > his > > arse saying how ***and inconsistant the fast guys are when he cant

even > > break a 1.32 at monza HA!! > > It sounds like this guy is just ***y jealous or trying to justify his > > crappiness by downing the guys like Huttu, Wilke who make this sim ***ing > > great. > > Theres always a bunch of tossers hiding in the corner bagging the *** out

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> > of guys who are better than them. You remind me of 2 guys who have done > the > > same things as you. > > Mark Beckman : Tosser who cant make tracks for shit, fugly pieces of > > undrivable ***which look like some ***in retard put together, yet he > > thinks they are works of art?. Smart ass who thinks he's king ***ing > shit. > > When someone disagrees he will argue his balls of at em till they just > give > > up in disgust. > > SHUT UP FOO > > Blade: I dunno this guys real name, but whoever the***is, he's king > toss > > pot. He goes around telling everyone that most of the people are ahead

of > > him are cheaters. > He's a real nice guy too, ever heard the spitting image song "I've never met

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> a nice South African" > http://www.80snostalgia.com/classictv/spittingimage/sounds.html > ;-) he's a racist apartheid supporting sack of shit. > > Tom , you have ranked up there with the greatest ***wits to ever grace > the > > sims, and i feel sorry for ya, no the hotlappers arent the insects, its > > arrogant***roaches like you to do their best to put down the guys that > > work hard for their success. > > I mean you know your probably gonna be fired now for talking your shit,

i > > suppose its justice, because i dunno how anyone could employ such a > > dimwitted***head like yourself into a business thats main target is > > dedicated sim racers. Until your fired, i dont think your company will > sell > > anything. So i hope BRD read all of this and ***y fire you and make sure

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> > you never work in the industry again. > > Regards > > Luke > Well said, > Alex

On Sun, 04 Nov 2001 21:57:58 GMT, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Maxx.... > >In all due respect to you, but we've tried having "serious posts - >constructive and well argued" discussions about this problem for more than 4 >years now......and what happens is that recently, the online racing >veterans, like you....don't participate (there are a few exceptions). Tom, I agree with Dave P, a much more readable and constructive post. I'm no online racing veteran, it's just over 12 months since my first online race ever (apart from a few with Rallymasters). I've only had GPL for 17months and only been active on r.a.s. for 18months (this is where I found out about GPL). So maybe my comments aren't as informed as others who have been into online racing for many years. I will say that I perhaps came into this as a realist and as a person who respects everyones right to do as they wish with the product they have bought. Because I respect their rights doesn't mean I waive the right to complain about them on an individual basis but I don't feel I can tell them what to do, I instead would try adn avoid them. I am I suppose very insulated from some of what you describe as I've never done a pickup race. I don't even drive the F1 cars these days as the leagues I am in are F2/FD and that all I have time for. I'm not saying there isn't a problem but I think you are attacking the wrong people, in the wrong way and in the wrong place. I do still check r.a.s. daily and do occasionally contribute where I feel I have something valid to say or if I see something which I strongly object to. I only recal one previous post by you on this subject in the last 18months but accept I may have missed a couple or not felt motivated to get involved. The reason I got involved this time was purely the tone of the original post and what I thought were total inacuracies of the highest order. It was the tone adn innacuracies I responded to, not what you perceived as the problem. It doesn't effect me, nor the dozens of GPL buddies I have. I think it will always be there but that there are enough methods available to avoid it if you wish. If I was motivated to try adn dela with the subkect I would not (solely) post here but to the main GPL forums at GPLEA and HG and I wouldn't even begin unless I had a well reasoned argument with some positive ideas on how we can address the problem for those who don't know it exists or how to avoid it Calling most hot-lappers insects and telling them to keep out of VROC is just not an option and I can't see howe you ever intended to create a useful discussion with that approach (although you have maybe reached a wider audience). The problem is a combination of bad driving mixed in with a bit of bad attitude, fast or slow. I do my bit for the former having helped 100s (maybe even 1000s) with the GPLEGS package drive "better" and many of those personally via email and replays etc. which I still do a number of times each week. I perhaps am more inclined to respond to the wider audience in the GPLEA forum than here although if I ever see a post from a driver who wants to improve I'll invariable chip in.

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>the problem grows.....then subsides, then grows...then subsides. I remember >a time that VROC was where all the serious drivers from N3 TEN were going to >escape all the "gamers, hotlappers and crashers" that migrated from the >online Dega races on TEN......which expanded into the rest of the pick up >races on TEN. I remember racing on VROC for many months before I stopped >running GPL......without have been crashed out of a single race...except for >errors I made. I come back to GPL two months ago and what do I find? Its >worse than it ever was on TEN......geeeesh! Jump over to N4 for some escape >and you find its so bad over there that Papyrus is now banning drivers on >their servers for crashing people! The gamers have gotten so blatant, they >do it openly now? >Its been my observation that in the last four years I've been actively >racing online, the quality of driving in open, public pickup races.....is at >an all-time low. Where are all the top drivers that used to run pickup >races many nights a week? Where are the guys that would spend time with a >newbie and help answer their questions, or take them into a track and show >them the racing line? These guys were fast....but they also provided sound >leadership to the newbie drivers to online racing. That seems to be >gone....and I believe it is partly responsible for the sad state of affairs >of online racing we now have. Where have they gone? Well, when I ask that >question in a serious way to those who should know, the answer is always >something like, "Well, they are tired of the wreckers too....so they've >withdrawn to their own small little groups and leagues and they don't run >open pick up races any more....nor do they help newbies any more."

Thats not my experience, I don't hang around in VROC chat but in reading r.a.s./GPLEA/HG forums and being involved in 4 or 5 GPL related mailing lists I see totally the opposite. I also see web sites by many of these so-called hot-lappers giving help and advice on technique and setups to others. If we have a problem it is that many newer, perhaps slower drivers don't feel able to join clubs or leagues as they fear they are not "up to it", instead they try and mingle into online pickup races and may be unlucky enough to have the same sort of experiences as you seem to have which MAY put them off or mould them into a less carefull/respectfull driver. I/We do try to get these people involved in league/club racing and try and steer them away from the most likely trouble-spots, say Monza pickup races. The very best training ground for all drivers of any speed level or experience is the vroc-f2 club. I've seen dozens of drivers start in that club (which is not a league and runs informal F2 races) to find their feet and go on to other leages, F1/F2/FD/FV/FG/F3 with the right attitude and with good racing skills honed in this friendly and nurturing environment. This is where you'll also find the very fastest F2/FD drivers still competing, taking the slowest cars, waiting for the guy who had slid off while chasing you so you can resume the chase, having the utmost respect for fellow drivers and spending much time offering advice/setups/sample replays etc. to help everyone on. This is why my view of online GPL is so vastly different from yours.

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> >What happens then when a new driver shows up on VROC, or on Sierra.com? >They don't have the benefit of contact with the top level drivers. They >don't read their posts about how many hours they practice to be smooth and >fast too, without crashing......or how many hours then spend working on a >stable race set up. All of that stuff leads to new drivers becoming good >drivers. What do they see? They see all this emphasis on "PB's and >hotlapping" and the only thing they see that other drivers (who these new >guys think are the veteran drivers) seem to value is..."what's your lowest >lap at a given track!" So...these new drivers who want to be "recognized" >too......go out on the net and download a whole bunch of setups, throw them >on their cars, in search of that perfect setup that will give them a PB at a >track that will be "like the fast guys"......and run lap after >lap....crashing in 9 out of 10 of them (or so).....trying to set a good PB! >That is doing nothing but practicing how to crash!

I agree 100% with much of what you say there Tom. I have long campaigned against the setup shopping mentallity and will ALWAYS post against any thread that relates to this. Unless there is an alternative method of gauging a drivers performance we are stuck with the stop-watch. I do look closely at GPLRA exports for good consistency and will always praise a driver who has done particularly well in that regard. I have also long advocated points for this in the same way as you get for Fastest Laps. But I do gauge my own performance by the stop-watch and invariably if it's a quicker lap, it's a better driven lap. Yes, maybe I've had a few lucky ones early on and if GPL kept an average lap time for my best 5 laps ever I'd pay m,uch more attention to that. If your driving around crashing more than 1 lap in 5 whilst PRACTICING TECHNIQUE then it's a bit too much but GPL allows crash without penalty so it allows you to be more adventurous in your testing approach. If your just driving round and round hoping for a quick one, crashing 1 in 5 or more then your just behaving stupidly but hey, it's your call. I thnk what this teaches you is that to go fast you need to be on the knife edge all the time which is bad for you and for the others that race with you. If your crashing in races all by yourself then your either driving above your ability or are not concentrating. I think the former is again a result of thinking that you need to be on the edge all the time. My 100% driving is not driving on a knife edge for lap after lap, it's just 100% concentration on driving up to 100% of what I feel is relavant in the circumstance. It just so happens that that is about the same pace as I drive all the time, and often a little quicker as I pull on all my reserves of concentration in a race situation. >That...is at the core of what this whole string is about........and while >its not the only reason for online racing reaching this low point.....its >one of them. If you don't agree with that, Maxx....then let me hear your >reasoning for it. As I said, I don't see it. I don't see it happening or discussed widely. Even if I never saw it or never read it I'd expect it to be happening to some degree. The problem would be if it was widespread and there was little of no means to avoid it. If we need to do anything at all it's to try and direct newer drivers to safe and helpful palces to start their online racing. I and many others are doing that already, all the time. I have no time to waste whining about what (I percieve as) the small minority are doing. It's not that I'm attcking your right to mouth off, just that there was absolutel.y nothing constructive or well argued or demonstrated about it and it was clearly intended to insight an angry exchange, not a debate on (what you perceive) is a serious issue. >So, if I brought you out of your shell.....just for a short time.....thank >you. I hope you weren't too inconvenienced by your contributing a little >bit back to this sport. I could take exception to that, as I perhaps spend 4-5 hours each week (and sometime much more) contributing back to the GPL community, not perhaps to the very limited audience (mostly very knowledgable and GPL savvy anyway) here as there are only so many hours I can spare. I'm thankful that a little sanity seems to have returned to your posts but I think you are still looking at a diamond and seeing a lump of coal. If you do have suggestions for providing a better environment for newer drivers other than banning people who have just as much right to be on vroc as anyone else then I'll continue to contribute to this discussion. Maxx

In article <9s5t8i$605$[email hidden]>, "Svend" <[email hidden]> writes: >At the Legends Central-Forum someone has a signature that goes like this;'An >idiot will drag you down to his level and beat you on experience'. (or >something equal to that). So.. don't go there:) Legends Central, huh? :-) Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

This is from Legends Central forum: Mick Brown: Sorry to drag this topic back to a more serious note but I've got to ask Blade this: Reading your posts I get the impression that you had no reservations about the apartheid system your government ran. Am I correct? I'm speaking as a liberal, an environmentalist AND a realist. Mick Blade: None whatsoever. I rest my case, I would never call eveyone of South Africa nationality racist I've met some South Africans and they were very nice, the song is just a joke. But this bloke by his own admision does support apartheid, so in my oppinion he is a racist sack of shit. I know it's got nothing to do with smirching but I've got no time for anybody with oppinions like that anywhere. Alex "Svend" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s5t8i$605$[email hidden]... > Ah. > > Please don't lower yourself to his level. Saying he's an apartheid > supporting racist makes you just as bad as him when he says hotlappershave > got anthrax at their arms. > > At the Legends Central-Forum someone has a signature that goes likethis;'An

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> idiot will drag you down to his level and beat you on experience'. (or > something equal to that). So.. don't go there:) > > > My 2 cents, > Svend > > > > "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:P4dF7.10230$[email hidden]... > > > > "Luke Mclean" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:3be53bfc$0$3444$[email hidden]... > > > Who in the FARK is this tom or whoever he is. > > > > Try doing a search for the name "Tim McArther"+ "Pabst" at google groups > to > > find out what ths Pabst charicter is realy like. > > > > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=rec.autos.simulators > > > > > I mean what kind of pin dick would come on and write some dribble out

of > > his > > > arse saying how crap and inconsistant the fast guys are when he cant > even > > > break a 1.32 at monza HA!! > > > > > > It sounds like this guy is just bloody jealous or trying to justifyhis

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> > > crappiness by downing the guys like Huttu, Wilke who make this sim > fucking > > > great. > > > > > > Theres always a bunch of tossers hiding in the corner bagging the fuck > out > > > of guys who are better than them. You remind me of 2 guys who have

done > > the > > > same things as you. > > > > > > Mark Beckman : Tosser who cant make tracks for shit, fugly pieces of > > > undrivable crap which look like some fuckin retard put together, yethe

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> > > thinks they are works of art?. Smart ass who thinks he's king fucking > > shit. > > > When someone disagrees he will argue his balls of at em till they just > > give > > > up in disgust. > > > SHUT UP FOO > > > > > > Blade: I dunno this guys real name, but whoever the cunt is, he's king > > toss > > > pot. He goes around telling everyone that most of the people are ahead > of > > > him are cheaters. > > > > He's a real nice guy too, ever heard the spitting image song "I've never > met > > a nice South African" > > > > http://www.80snostalgia.com/classictv/spittingimage/sounds.html > > > > ;-) he's a racist apartheid supporting sack of shit. > > > > > > > > Tom , you have ranked up there with the greatest fuckwits to ever

grace > > the > > > sims, and i feel sorry for ya, no the hotlappers arent the insects,its > > > arrogant cockroaches like you to do their best to put down the guysthat > > > work hard for their success. > > > > > > I mean you know your probably gonna be fired now for talking yourshit,

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> i > > > suppose its justice, because i dunno how anyone could employ such a > > > dimwitted cockhead like yourself into a business thats main target is > > > dedicated sim racers. Until your fired, i dont think your company will > > sell > > > anything. So i hope BRD read all of this and bloody fire you and make > sure > > > you never work in the industry again. > > > > > > Regards > > > > > > Luke > > > > Well said, > > Alex > > > > > >

As a side note, just for my curiosity, what is the purpose behind so many full stops, surely one will do, if not a colon. I know its not important, but just curious.

On 05 Nov 2001 14:12:44 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <9s5t8i$605$[email hidden]>, "Svend" <[email hidden]> >writes: > >>At the Legends Central-Forum someone has a signature that goes like this;'An >>idiot will drag you down to his level and beat you on experience'. (or >>something equal to that). So.. don't go there:) > >Legends Central, huh? :-)

Yeah, you stole it from the guy at Central Legends :)) Andre

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> >Eldred >-- >Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 >Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett >GPLRank - under construction... > >Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you >with experience... >Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

They aren't "aliens". Just guys who play the same driving game for thousands of hours over three years. We need another word for them (cough...you). How about........ addicted......obsessive.......compulsives.......... who need to get out in the sun once in awhile? David G Fisher (hoping he's poking Andre in the ribs with this post) "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> First, I'm the wrong guy to challenge, I'm not an alien. And it's the > aliens that can't run 2 laps in a row without crashing right? You > can't prove your ridiculous points with one race against one person > where you can still win with sheer luck. The only way to prove your > point is to join MOG, in the same division as Wilke, Huttu and the > other aliens, and see how well you do there. If you are right, you > should win MOG easily right? Full distance races on pro damage against > the aliens, should be easy for you since all the aliens will crash on > the first lap. > > But lol, I'll go along with your crap :) More than a year ago you > asked me to race you and some Sears instructors online on the Sears > track in GPL. I accepted immediately, looked forward to race against a > couple of guys with the same passion for racing as I have, but > unfortunately you never got back on it allthough I mailed you a couple > of times about it. > > Let's make it a fun race instead of a wussie Monza race. > Full distance race on the Ring, full damage. > And let's invite some aliens too! If you agree, I'll ask Huttu, Wilke > and the rest of those Verstappen-wannabe's if they will join us. > Dave Powell, Marc Royal, how about it guys? > With all these corners surely no alien will be able to finish a single > lap, right! > > PS I will tell you a small secret: The aliens drive 7:50 laps on the > Ring, so that can take it -really- easy, while you and I have to drive > our ass off to avoid finishing 5 laps down. That's the whole point of > this ridiculous discussion.. and you know damn good you're wrong. > > Cheers, > Andre

DGF would be me! I think any adult who plays the same game for as long as Alex and then thinks he's actually accomplished something needs to be studied by a team of psychiatrists at a major European clinic. Maybe he and the other GPL backslappers could get a group "home" and "play" with each other all day, every day. David G Fisher "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oVhF7.21503$[email hidden]...

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> "DGF"...?? > > TP > > > "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:frYE7.983$[email hidden]... > > From what I've read from and about you on r.a.s I thought you were a > little > > strange. Now I'm convinced you need some psychiatric help, maybe you and > DGF > > could get together for a group session. > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... > > > > <snip> > > > > > >

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > >PS: Ok Andre....now you can really "get me." ....lol... You can chime in > >here and say that you really were seriously thinking I couldn't run a better > >lap at Monza than a 1:33...!!! And, if you do....I shall kill you. No...I > >will challenge you to a head-to-head competition at Monza. You write down > >your best time at Monza and I'll write down mine....we'll both post them > >simultaneously on this newsgroup....and we'll just see who is really the > >fastest. lol....... > > First, I'm the wrong guy to challenge, I'm not an alien. And it's the > aliens that can't run 2 laps in a row without crashing right? You > can't prove your ridiculous points with one race against one person > where you can still win with sheer luck. The only way to prove your > point is to join MOG, in the same division as Wilke, Huttu and the > other aliens, and see how well you do there. If you are right, you > should win MOG easily right? Full distance races on pro damage against > the aliens, should be easy for you since all the aliens will crash on > the first lap. > > But lol, I'll go along with your crap :) More than a year ago you > asked me to race you and some Sears instructors online on the Sears > track in GPL. I accepted immediately, looked forward to race against a > couple of guys with the same passion for racing as I have, but > unfortunately you never got back on it allthough I mailed you a couple > of times about it. > > Let's make it a fun race instead of a wussie Monza race. > Full distance race on the Ring, full damage. > And let's invite some aliens too! If you agree, I'll ask Huttu, Wilke > and the rest of those Verstappen-wannabe's if they will join us. > Dave Powell, Marc Royal, how about it guys? > With all these corners surely no alien will be able to finish a single > lap, right! > > PS I will tell you a small secret: The aliens drive 7:50 laps on the > Ring, so that can take it -really- easy, while you and I have to drive > our ass off to avoid finishing 5 laps down. That's the whole point of > this ridiculous discussion.. and you know damn good you're wrong.

I know you meant to include me in your invitation there Andre, but I'm sorry, I don't have time......got to wash my hair, or something, ok, well, maybe it was something else then, but I know I'm busy that day... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

No, Goy, he did not say The Ring in NASCAR 4... ;] Cheers! Jan Kohl The Pits - http://www.theuspits.com "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Andre Warringa wrote: > > > > >PS: Ok Andre....now you can really "get me." ....lol... You can chimein > > >here and say that you really were seriously thinking I couldn't run abetter > > >lap at Monza than a 1:33...!!! And, if you do....I shall kill you.No...I > > >will challenge you to a head-to-head competition at Monza. You writedown > > >your best time at Monza and I'll write down mine....we'll both postthem > > >simultaneously on this newsgroup....and we'll just see who is reallythe

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> > >fastest. lol....... > > > > First, I'm the wrong guy to challenge, I'm not an alien. And it's the > > aliens that can't run 2 laps in a row without crashing right? You > > can't prove your ridiculous points with one race against one person > > where you can still win with sheer luck. The only way to prove your > > point is to join MOG, in the same division as Wilke, Huttu and the > > other aliens, and see how well you do there. If you are right, you > > should win MOG easily right? Full distance races on pro damage against > > the aliens, should be easy for you since all the aliens will crash on > > the first lap. > > > > But lol, I'll go along with your crap :) More than a year ago you > > asked me to race you and some Sears instructors online on the Sears > > track in GPL. I accepted immediately, looked forward to race against a > > couple of guys with the same passion for racing as I have, but > > unfortunately you never got back on it allthough I mailed you a couple > > of times about it. > > > > Let's make it a fun race instead of a wussie Monza race. > > Full distance race on the Ring, full damage. > > And let's invite some aliens too! If you agree, I'll ask Huttu, Wilke > > and the rest of those Verstappen-wannabe's if they will join us. > > Dave Powell, Marc Royal, how about it guys? > > With all these corners surely no alien will be able to finish a single > > lap, right! > > > > PS I will tell you a small secret: The aliens drive 7:50 laps on the > > Ring, so that can take it -really- easy, while you and I have to drive > > our ass off to avoid finishing 5 laps down. That's the whole point of > > this ridiculous discussion.. and you know damn good you're wrong. > > I know you meant to include me in your invitation there Andre, but I'm > sorry, I don't have time......got to wash my hair, or something, ok, > well, maybe it was something else then, but I know I'm busy that day... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" > --Groucho Marx--

Jan Kohl wrote: > > No, Goy, he did not say The Ring in NASCAR 4... ;] Whoooops, my bad..... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

Did you just mention the words "Ring" and "full distance" in the same sentence?? <g> Jan.(I want in on this!! ;-)) =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Andre Warringa" wrote... > ><snip> > Let's make it a fun race instead of a wussie Monza race. > Full distance race on the Ring, full damage.<snip>

In article <oWCF7.182132$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >I think any adult who plays the same game for as long as Alex and then >thinks he's actually accomplished something needs to be studied by a team of >psychiatrists at a major European clinic. Why, David? Do you use the same reasoning for sports? I don't remember if I've asked you this before. If someone has been bowling for 10 years, and finally rolls a 300, does that make his accomplishment any less worthy? Why does it matter the time frame it took? And, if you expect success at *anything* to come easy, then why even bother? If you do something good in your chosen field/sport/hobby quickly then it isn't much of a challenge. If you can't do it quickly, would you classify yourself as a failure? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:48:58 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: >I know you meant to include me in your invitation there Andre, but I'm >sorry, I don't have time......got to wash my hair, or something, ok, >well, maybe it was something else then, but I know I'm busy that day... Oh great, now we're DOOMED! :) Andre

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> >Beers and cheers >(uncle) Goy > >http://www.theuspits.com >http://www.teammirage.com > >"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" >--Groucho Marx--

On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 00:57:58 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: >Jan Kohl wrote: >> >> No, Goy, he did not say The Ring in NASCAR 4... ;] > >Whoooops, my bad..... Uhm.. was this a hint at a nice Christmas surprise? Andre

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> >Beers and cheers >(uncle) Goy > >http://www.theuspits.com >http://www.teammirage.com > >"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" >--Groucho Marx--

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 00:57:58 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Jan Kohl wrote: > >> > >> No, Goy, he did not say The Ring in NASCAR 4... ;] > > > >Whoooops, my bad..... > > Uhm.. was this a hint at a nice Christmas surprise?

Only Jan and Dave knows that for sure, but no, I don't think the "Ring" was what Jan had in mind when he wrote that Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

On 06 Nov 2001 04:15:54 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <oWCF7.182132$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>I think any adult who plays the same game for as long as Alex and then >>thinks he's actually accomplished something needs to be studied by a team of >>psychiatrists at a major European clinic. > >Why, David? Do you use the same reasoning for sports? I don't remember if >I've asked you this before. If someone has been bowling for 10 years, and >finally rolls a 300, does that make his accomplishment any less worthy? Why >does it matter the time frame it took? And, if you expect success at >*anything* to come easy, then why even bother? If you do something good in >your chosen field/sport/hobby quickly then it isn't much of a challenge. If >you can't do it quickly, would you classify yourself as a failure? > >Eldred

I agree Eldred, why is it less of an accomplishment if you have practised long and hard to become good at something? Do you try something for a week, think "that's easy, I *could* become a champion if I spent three years at it" and then not bother? Practising doesn't demean the achievement. Rafe Mc

In article <aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes: ...

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>7. In the face of crashing culpability as stated in number #6 above, if an >"insect" continued this hotlapping activity, how long would it take for >everyone who knew him to call him an idiot! "Running up thousands and >thousands of dollars on his credit card so he could lower is PB at Monza by >a 10th of a second".......that would not be considered sane and rational >behavior for any human being. So....let me ask all the "insects" this >question: "Is it the fact that you don't have to pay for all your >crashes.....is that your argument for saying that what you are doing is sane >and rational?"

Hmm.. that is exactly the point. In real life we cannot do such things, as it hurts/costs a lot of money or is technically impossible. In simulations we can do it! We can push our limits! We can do better/faster whatever without costs/risks.. If you want to have risks, do it in real life. If you want to have fun, do it in a simulation. BTW.. I dont think that hotlapping is about practicing crashes. It is about avoiding them while driving at the limit. Non of the real fast laps have crashs in it ;) ... being able to drive consistent laps is a prerequisite to do fast hotlaps, IMHO. Only wannabees will crash lap after lap waiting for the magic super lap. They will soon learn that this is the wrong approach. Of course, it takes more to win sim-races. It needs luck when you have to avoid wrecks, it needs more time, it needs a stable internet connection. I would say, a hotlapper needs: Track knowledge, hand-eye coordination, setup/car knowledge. For being on top in sim races you need additionally: knowledge about the opposition, knowledge about how to deal with traffic, luck, money, time. (note, that the hoplapper needs are *prerequisite* for performing well in sim races, too!) I for myself prefer hotlapping since usually I dont have knowledge about the opposition and want to avoid getting my efforts ruined by lack of luck in pickup races.. (for more realistic racing I recommend to race in one of the many leagues :)

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>1. Can you guys imagine how good these guys would really be as sim drivers >if they spent all that time they now spend learning to crash......on >learning race strategy, how to drive their cars in control and avoid >sticking their nose in the wrong place at the wrong time, how to "think >their way" to the podium and how to work on their setups to achieve car >stability in even the most "out of shape" situations that every race puts us >into at one time or another? Can you imagine how hard they might be to beat >at Monza (for example) if they spent several hundred laps practicing driving >completely out of the racing line there (which is where we all find >ourselves for about 30% of every race we run....at any track)?

Easy to beat. All you need is to practice fast driving :) Once you are able to drive really fast laps, you can do anything at monza :) Once you know the perfect way around the track, you will have no problems to overtake on the long straight, there is no need to practice driving out of the racing line.. you simply shouldnt be there. I am not there for 99.99% of a race distance. Why should I use a line slower than the racing line? Only to overtake, and that is easy at monza. (I agree, practicing *some* turns off the perfect line can help in dealing with traffic on the more twistier tracks.) If you mean you cannot keep your car on the racing line for 30% of a race distance, then you better practice offline a bit ;) >Can you >imagine how good these guys would be with all that practice? Wow! Yeah. Practicing driving off the racing line will make them driving there (according to your own theory), being much slower and more unpredictable compared to any hotlapper I know. I wouldn't like to be in a race together with such driving chicanes - would be a nightmare..

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>3. If you want to improve online sim racing, stop bitching about it in >private chat rooms and email, and start speaking up against all this >prominence on hotlapping in this community.......publicly! I know you don't >like doing that, most of you are conservative guys that shy away from public >limelight. But, heck.....if you don't speak up......you are only hurting >yourself in the end. I'm challenging you to end your silence and speak up >about this issue when ever you have the chance.

Ok. You asked for it. Here is my opinion: Practicing hotlaps should be a must for everyone trying to participate in online races. You need to know the limits of your car, you need to know the limits of the track and you need to know where the racing line is. Doing hours and hours of hotlapping (= learning to drive your car on the edge without crashing) is the best way to learn that, IMHO. When you are done with this, *then* start worrying about strategy and dealing with traffic. Once you know how to do - let's say - 1:28-ish hotlaps at monza, you can easily do 1:29 without creating any troubles to others, in the middle of heavy traffic. (Tom is right in one point: you should not try to reproduce these 1:28 during a race, simply drive along without losing control should be the main goal during a race - should be easy once you learned how your car behaves when it reaches 'the edge' - you will recognize all the 'early warnings' before it starts to get out of control after spending some hours with hotlapping in the same car/setup/track combination) Calis GPLrank at -25, current Euro-IICC champion. Way more proud of the -25, since winning several league races involved luck, absence of faster guys, .. in other words: Winning a race, or even winning a league season doesnt compare to anything, while GPLrank at -25 means an absolute level of pure driving skill, no luck involved.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:

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>On 05 Nov 2001 14:12:44 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote: > >>In article <9s5t8i$605$[email hidden]>, "Svend" ><[email hidden]> >>writes: >> >>>At the Legends Central-Forum someone has a signature that goes like >this;'An >>>idiot will drag you down to his level and beat you on experience'. (or >>>something equal to that). So.. don't go there:) >> >>Legends Central, huh? :-) > >Yeah, you stole it from the guy at Central Legends :))

Hehe...I've never even POSTED to Legends...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Lol, I don't actually spend 'that' much time practicing GPL and other sims, no more than an hour a week. I usually have at least two league races a week so that's another 3 to 4 hours, I hardly ever go on vroc nowadays, so I'd say I spend about 4 to 5 hours a week simracing that doesn't sound excessive to me. How much time do you spend 'beta testing' every week? ;-) Alex. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oWCF7.182132$[email hidden]... > DGF would be me! > > I think any adult who plays the same game for as long as Alex and then > thinks he's actually accomplished something needs to be studied by a teamof > psychiatrists at a major European clinic. > > Maybe he and the other GPL backslappers could get a group "home" and"play"

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> with each other all day, every day. > > David G Fisher > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:oVhF7.21503$[email hidden]... > > "DGF"...?? > > > > TP > > > > > > "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:frYE7.983$[email hidden]... > > > From what I've read from and about you on r.a.s I thought you were a > > little > > > strange. Now I'm convinced you need some psychiatric help, maybe you

and

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> > DGF > > > could get together for a group session. > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > >

On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 14:36:37 GMT, "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote: Speaking as a South African, my observation is that for most white South Africans, living in the *new* South Africa certainly has no more priviliges for them. I guess it probably seems like the *good old days* when they speak of pre 1994 South Africa. I'm glad they have happy memories of those days and hope that they have new ones for the future. My life growing up in the same society was definately not as rosy and since 1994 more doors and opportunities have been opened to me. I am glad that we've undergone a relatively peaceful revolution and especially thankful that my kids get to grow up in a more tolerant society. I hope others who think fondly of apartheid will take time to think of their fellow citizens who have *no* fond recollections of that time. I don't blame them for their misguided thoughts. I just hope that they wake up and realize that to wish for the apartheid years means to wish suffering and injustice on their fellow South Africans. Peace people, its time to move on. :) Sorry for the rant.

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>This is from Legends Central forum: > >Mick Brown: >Sorry to drag this topic back to a more serious note but I've got to ask >Blade this: >Reading your posts I get the impression that you had no reservations about >the apartheid system your government ran. Am I correct? > >I'm speaking as a liberal, an environmentalist AND a realist. > >Mick > >Blade: > >None whatsoever. > > > >I rest my case, I would never call eveyone of South Africa nationality >racist I've met some South Africans and they were very nice, the song is >just a joke. But this bloke by his own admision does support apartheid, so >in my oppinion he is a racist sack of shit. I know it's got nothing to do >with smirching but I've got no time for anybody with oppinions like that >anywhere. > >Alex > >"Svend" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:9s5t8i$605$[email hidden]... >> Ah. >> >> Please don't lower yourself to his level. Saying he's an apartheid >> supporting racist makes you just as bad as him when he says hotlappers >have >> got anthrax at their arms. >> >> At the Legends Central-Forum someone has a signature that goes like >this;'An >> idiot will drag you down to his level and beat you on experience'. (or >> something equal to that). So.. don't go there:) >> >> >> My 2 cents, >> Svend >> >> >> >> "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:P4dF7.10230$[email hidden]... >> > >> > "Luke Mclean" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> > news:3be53bfc$0$3444$[email hidden]... >> > > Who in the FARK is this tom or whoever he is. >> > >> > Try doing a search for the name "Tim McArther"+ "Pabst" at google groups >> to >> > find out what ths Pabst charicter is realy like. >> > >> > http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&group=rec.autos.simulators >> > >> > > I mean what kind of pin dick would come on and write some dribble out >of >> > his >> > > arse saying how crap and inconsistant the fast guys are when he cant >> even >> > > break a 1.32 at monza HA!! >> > > >> > > It sounds like this guy is just bloody jealous or trying to justify >his >> > > crappiness by downing the guys like Huttu, Wilke who make this sim >> fucking >> > > great. >> > > >> > > Theres always a bunch of tossers hiding in the corner bagging the fuck >> out >> > > of guys who are better than them. You remind me of 2 guys who have >done >> > the >> > > same things as you. >> > > >> > > Mark Beckman : Tosser who cant make tracks for shit, fugly pieces of >> > > undrivable crap which look like some fuckin retard put together, yet >he >> > > thinks they are works of art?. Smart ass who thinks he's king fucking >> > shit. >> > > When someone disagrees he will argue his balls of at em till they just >> > give >> > > up in disgust. >> > > SHUT UP FOO >> > > >> > > Blade: I dunno this guys real name, but whoever the cunt is, he's king >> > toss >> > > pot. He goes around telling everyone that most of the people are ahead >> of >> > > him are cheaters. >> > >> > He's a real nice guy too, ever heard the spitting image song "I've never >> met >> > a nice South African" >> > >> > http://www.80snostalgia.com/classictv/spittingimage/sounds.html >> > >> > ;-) he's a racist apartheid supporting sack of shit. >> > >> > > >> > > Tom , you have ranked up there with the greatest fuckwits to ever >grace >> > the >> > > sims, and i feel sorry for ya, no the hotlappers arent the insects, >its >> > > arrogant cockroaches like you to do their best to put down the guys >that >> > > work hard for their success. >> > > >> > > I mean you know your probably gonna be fired now for talking your >shit, >> i >> > > suppose its justice, because i dunno how anyone could employ such a >> > > dimwitted cockhead like yourself into a business thats main target is >> > > dedicated sim racers. Until your fired, i dont think your company will >> > sell >> > > anything. So i hope BRD read all of this and bloody fire you and make >> sure >> > > you never work in the industry again. >> > > >> > > Regards >> > > >> > > Luke >> > >> > Well said, >> > Alex >> > >> > >> >> >

Regards all, istoff

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >Did you just mention the words "Ring" and "full distance" in the same >sentence?? <g> > >Jan.(I want in on this!! ;-)) Jan, didn't we already DO this one...? :-) Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Did you just mention the words "Ring" and "full distance" in the same > >sentence?? <g> > > > >Jan.(I want in on this!! ;-)) > > > Jan, didn't we already DO this one...? :-) > > Eldred > --

Boxing day. Eldred's server. Zandvoort. 80 Laps. I'll be there ... again. With Jan eating my exhaust fumes.

On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 21:38:52 +0100, "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Boxing day. Eldred's server. Zandvoort. 80 Laps. I'll be there ... again. >With Jan eating my exhaust fumes. When is boxing day? And who's fighting who? Andre

you mean beta testing "Bass Trophy Fishing 2002"..? :)~ "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DhUF7.26492$[email hidden]... | Lol, I don't actually spend 'that' much time practicing GPL and othersims, | no more than an hour a week. I usually have at least two league races aweek | so that's another 3 to 4 hours, I hardly ever go on vroc nowadays, so I'd | say I spend about 4 to 5 hours a week simracing that doesn't soundexcessive

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| to me. | | How much time do you spend 'beta testing' every week? ;-) | | Alex. | | "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | news:oWCF7.182132$[email hidden]... | > DGF would be me! | > | > I think any adult who plays the same game for as long as Alex and then | > thinks he's actually accomplished something needs to be studied by a

team

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| of | > psychiatrists at a major European clinic. | > | > Maybe he and the other GPL backslappers could get a group "home" and | "play" | > with each other all day, every day. | > | > David G Fisher | > | > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > news:oVhF7.21503$[email hidden]... | > > "DGF"...?? | > > | > > TP | > > | > > | > > "Alex Cameron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > > news:frYE7.983$[email hidden]... | > > > From what I've read from and about you on r.a.s I thought you were a | > > little | > > > strange. Now I'm convinced you need some psychiatric help, maybe you | and | > > DGF | > > > could get together for a group session. | > > > | > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message | > > > news:aAWE7.17000$[email hidden]... | > > > | > > > <snip> | > > > | > > > | > > | > > | > | |

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 6 Nov 2001 21:38:52 +0100, "Jens H. Kruuse" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Boxing day. Eldred's server. Zandvoort. 80 Laps. I'll be there ... again. > >With Jan eating my exhaust fumes. > > When is boxing day? And who's fighting who? > > Andre >

"Boxing Day The day after Christmas, the Feast of St. Stephen, the first Christian martyr, is better known as Boxing Day. The term may come from the opening of church poor boxes that day; maybe from the earthenware boxes with which boy apprentices collected money at the doors of their masters' clients. Nowadays, we often see, in certain families, gifts (boxes) given to those who provide services throughout the year. "Boxing Day" is listed in the Canada Labour Code as a holiday." Track: Zandvort Tue Dec 26 20:57:46 2000 RACE RESULTS (After 90 laps) Pos No Driver Team Nat Laps Race Time Diff 1 9 Jens Kruuse Ferrari DEN 90 137m55.256s 2 12 Jan Verschueren Cooper BEL 90 137m55.997s 00.741s 3 19 Eldred Pickett Ferrari USA 71 110m07.502s 19 lap(s) 4 17 Don McCorkle Ferrari USA 55 84m47.417s 35 lap(s) 5 20 Stian Svendsen Cooper FRA 51 77m19.981s 39 lap(s) 6 5 Bruno Zipprich Lotus USA 36 55m22.615s 54 lap(s) 7 10 Topi Paavola Ferrari FIN 33 49m54.753s 57 lap(s) 8 15 Sam Hook Lotus GER 32 48m10.094s 58 lap(s) 9 18 furtzo bernie Brabham ITA 31 46m36.770s 59 lap(s) 10 2 John Ferrari Simmons Ferrari USA 30 46m11.356s 60 lap(s) 11 16 Roger Squires Ferrari USA 30 46m14.199s 60 lap(s) 12 3 Piotr Tysowski Ferrari CAN 20 33m24.638s 70 lap(s) 13 6 David Ewing Brabham USA 19 29m28.427s 71 lap(s) 14 13 Mike Sullivan1 Ferrari USA 17 27m46.490s 73 lap(s) 15 14 Herko ter Horst Ferrari HOL 10 16m40.102s 80 lap(s) 16 8 Andre Warringa Cooper HOL 7 11m00.730s 83 lap(s) 17 11 Graeme Nash Ferrari GBR 2 3m01.491s 88 lap(s) 18 1 Joe Murphy Brabham IRE 2 3m41.901s 88 lap(s) 19 7 Neil Wood Brabham GBR 0 DidNotStart 90 lap(s) 20 4 Eldred Pickett Brabham USA 0 DidNotStart 90 lap(s)

Boxing day is what we call "2de kerstdag", December 26th. The day when, last year, Jens Kruuse (Ferrari) beat me (Cooper) by 0.72 secs in Eldreds first online GP. Jens had a made a couple of mistakes allowing me to catch up. I proceeded to try and pressure him in the twisty bits, but had nothing for him on the straights. He didn't crack and, deservedly, won the race. Coming 2nd in that race (even if through attrition) is one of my proudest simracing acchievements to date. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Andre Warringa" wrote... > <snip> > When is boxing day? And who's fighting who?

*We* did, but that is not to say I cannot enter *another*, right? I never got that grudge match against DGF in the end, so I wouldn't like to miss out on an opportunity to let my driving do the talking with reference to mr. Pabst. We've locked horns in a similar thread in the past. I took exemption to myself and other simracers I respect *a lot* being included in a generalisation thought to be detrimental to the sport/community and I'm still angry about that. I haven't commented in this thread as all of what I wrote back then is still valid and unriposted by the gentleman in question (so nothing new to add). How's about a Le Mans Sarthe GP, BTW? Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "EldredP" wrote... > <snip> > Jan, didn't we already DO this one...? :-)

> 3. The skills required to drive a race car very fast are not hard to > learn, vast numbers of the general population contain reasonable > hand-eye coordination and with a little instruction they can learn to > drive a race car, any race car ....very fast. Every driver in I think you would find most "real" race car drivers will disagree with you on this very point. What it sounds like to me is that you're saying there is no such thing as a "natural born race car driver" and to that I would say bull. I see it almost every weekend I go to the kart track and see a 15 year old kid drive the wheels off his kart and blow the doors off the 20+ Lil Al wannabees. Just because I can drive my kart fast doesn't mean I could jump into a CART racecar "with a little instruction" and drive it fast. Of course, "fast" would be open to interpretation. I can go out to CART 101 here in Vegas and drive a CART car 180+ mph which, most definitely is fast. Until of course, Michael Andretti blows by me at 220+ mph. And all the instruction in the world isn't going to get me up on his rear wing and keep me there. -- Dave Casey Casey#9 (NASCAR Racing 4) www.teamcasey.net www.lvkc.com www.buycoolcrap.com

"Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iF_F7.5721$[email hidden]... > RACE RESULTS (After 90 laps) > > Pos No Driver Team Nat Laps Race Time > 16 8 Andre Warringa Cooper HOL 7 11m00.730s 83 > lap(s) Another good result for you, 'Dre... :-))))

In article <MTXF7.8623$[email hidden]>, "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> writes: >Boxing day. Eldred's server. Zandvoort. 80 Laps. I'll be there ... again. >With Jan eating my exhaust fumes. > OOh, that sounds like a CHALLENGE...<G> Boxing Day - that's the fake holiday on the day after Xmas, right? :-) Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 00:48:23 GMT, "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:iF_F7.5721$[email hidden]... > > > >> RACE RESULTS (After 90 laps) >> >> Pos No Driver Team Nat Laps Race Time > >> 16 8 Andre Warringa Cooper HOL 7 11m00.730s 83 >> lap(s) > >Another good result for you, 'Dre... :-))))

Ermm.. err.. it was a.. ehh.. yeah, it was a disco! Jens, quickly, post those Silverstone results! Andre

[email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:

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> On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 00:48:23 GMT, "Colin Harris" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >"Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:iF_F7.5721$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > >> RACE RESULTS (After 90 laps) > >> > >> Pos No Driver Team Nat Laps Race Time > > > >> 16 8 Andre Warringa Cooper HOL 7 11m00.730s 83 > >> lap(s) > > > >Another good result for you, 'Dre... :-)))) > > Ermm.. err.. it was a.. ehh.. yeah, it was a disco! > Jens, quickly, post those Silverstone results!

Monza! -- -asbjxrn

"Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes: > > > > > Ermm.. err.. it was a.. ehh.. yeah, it was a disco! > > Jens, quickly, post those Silverstone results! > > Monza!

Sorry guys. Can't connect to Eldred's ftp-server. :-( Eldred's GPs: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~epickett/gprace.html /Jens

"Maxx" wrote...

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> > <snip> > Don't really know why I'm spending my time replying to > this load of drivel but what the heck.. > > > <snip> > I cannot conceive of any driver driving at less than 95%, > to me I'd rather be asleep or watching TV, there is no > fun in that. I link driving at 90% to concentrating at > 90% and that driver is a danger to himself and all around > him. > > > <snip> > Maybe to you but I've never read such drivel. I've never > raced at less than 98% in real-life and know of no other > even half decent driver who would drive at less than 95% > unless perhaps with a huge lead. > > I know we are talking percentage here, so it's hard to > quantify, but in fact, this percentage rule is often use > in MotorRacing. All the professional drivers I've spoken > to drive at 95%+ adn often at 99%. 100% is reserved for > last laps or qualifying and would be very difficult for > all but the fittest driver to perform at for more than a > few laps. > > > <snip> > As I said previously though, I also wish to drive at close > to 100% for the entire race, even if I'm winning by a big > margin. If I can't then I won't race, theres no point for > me. I also did this in my real-life racing career and was > fortunate enough to never crash, never hit another car and > only once go off track (where my priority was to not lose > speed, so I kept my foot firmly planted). I do think it's a > slight flaw in my driving in GPL as GPL is so much more > difficult than real-life racingin many respects as you have > so much less feedback and visual aids.

Malcolm, sorry for this late reply, but you raise an interesting point/duality about "sustainable level of effort" there. I have always interpreted 8/10ths, or 98%, or 100% concentration or whatever one wishes to call it as the level where one's not exactly cruising or comfortable, but fairly sure one won't make mistakes. I.e. it should take an outside influence (like a battle for position with another car) to require one to step up the level of driving and possibly having to "gather things up". Reading between the lines of your posts, however, I get the impression you interpret it as being a level where one might make a mistake, but one's fairly certain to catch it. A subtle, yet important distinction as I've recently become aware "my" approach leaves one open to concentration errors, whereas that's less of a danger with "yours" I would imagine. This raises the question: in your opinion, would driving at the slighty higher level (but at the same time freeing up attention otherwise spent on trying to be faultless) be more productive in the long run? Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

On 07 Nov 2001 09:51:30 +0100, [email hidden] (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) wrote:

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>> >Another good result for you, 'Dre... :-)))) >> >> Ermm.. err.. it was a.. ehh.. yeah, it was a disco! >> Jens, quickly, post those Silverstone results! > >Monza! >-- > -asbjxrn

Below the belt :) I felt asleep during the Monza race.. Andre

On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:21:18 +0100, "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Sorry guys. Can't connect to Eldred's ftp-server. :-( > >Eldred's GPs: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~epickett/gprace.html > >/Jens Luckily I can :D Race Length: 2:04:05.52 - 80L 1 2 A. Warringa LOT 113.2 mph 2 12 J. Verschuere COV -1L 3 19 M. Tate FD FER -1L 4 6 D. McCorkle FER -17L 5 9 H. ter Horst FER -31L 6 14 R. Squires FER Accident 7 3 E. Pickett FER -36L 8 1 M. Hellblade FER -47L 9 8 J. Andersen LOT -52L 10 17 R. Adams LOT Camshaft 11 7 B. Cammack FD COV -65L 12 5 P. Leblanc LOT -67L 13 16 J. Simmons FER Accident 14 18 R. Rohde FER -72L 15 20 M. Winkler LOT -72L 16 13 P. Malphrus J FER -72L 17 10 J. Herbert LOT Retired 18 11 K. Chalk LOT -76L 19 15 S. Willis LOT -80L I can still feel the pain in my back I had after this race :) Andre

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:21:18 +0100, "Jens H. Kruuse" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Sorry guys. Can't connect to Eldred's ftp-server. :-( > > > >Eldred's GPs: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~epickett/gprace.html > > > >/Jens > > Luckily I can :D > > Race Length: 2:04:05.52 - 80L > > 1 2 A. Warringa LOT 113.2 mph > 2 12 J. Verschuere COV -1L

<Snip!> > I can still feel the pain in my back I had after this race :) >Only your back? I remember hurting somewhere else after 2+ hours of racing. ;-) /Jens

[email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:

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> On 07 Nov 2001 09:51:30 +0100, [email hidden] (Asbj�rn > Bj�rnstad) wrote: > > >> >Another good result for you, 'Dre... :-)))) > >> > >> Ermm.. err.. it was a.. ehh.. yeah, it was a disco! > >> Jens, quickly, post those Silverstone results! > > > >Monza! > > Below the belt :) > I felt asleep during the Monza race..

That's my (And Toms Pabsts? (Oh, no he didn't start that thread again, did he?)) strategy.. Stay so far behind that the guy in front get so bored out of his mind by parading around on his own that he starts to find the wallpaper interesting. Managing to get him to fall asleep is an outstanding successs. :-) GPL is a RTS game, isn't it? -- -asbjxrn

On Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:22:29 +0100, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote: Jan,

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>I have always interpreted 8/10ths, or 98%, or 100% concentration or whatever >one wishes to call it as the level where one's not exactly cruising or >comfortable, but fairly sure one won't make mistakes. I.e. it should take an >outside influence (like a battle for position with another car) to require >one to step up the level of driving and possibly having to "gather things >up". Reading between the lines of your posts, however, I get the impression >you interpret it as being a level where one might make a mistake, but one's >fairly certain to catch it. A subtle, yet important distinction as I've >recently become aware "my" approach leaves one open to concentration errors, >whereas that's less of a danger with "yours" I would imagine.

Well, theres a couple of thing going on at the same time in order for me really to feel I am driving at 100%. They are 2 aspects but It's only sensible to talk about them as one as they are to a defree, mutually exclusive. Generally when I'm testing I have a number of things on my mind, maybe I'm playing with a braking point or trying a slightly different gearing. Mostly it's about the approach to the the corner as a whole. This is almost always to do with the throttle states throughout the corner, when to trail it, balance it or boot it. Anyway, concentration wise thats pretty much 100% and, more often than not (but not always), testing is aimed at going quicker so I'm pushing the car to 100% as I currently see 100% to be. But it's a sort of methodical concentration, I'm doing what I refer to as "joining the dots". Because I'm pushing the car to 100% AND thinking in this fashion I am more likely to crash. Sometimes it's because I've moved my brake marker to far, or the particular technique I've tried hasn't worked but I beleive it's as much to do with my "join the dots" mentality as these factors. Now, I (and everyone) has to do this type of testing in order to learn a new track, improve ones laptimes, improve consistency but it's not an approach I like to have to race with. OK, so testing is 100%, now onto racing. By the time I come to race I no longer want to feel the need to join the dots, in a way I hope to engage some sort of mental auto-pilot to get me aorund the track in good speed. I feel I NEED to do this for 2 reasons. 1) I need some processing power for race situations, passing, definding, just the stuff that goes through you mind in a race. 2) If I can get my co-pilot (which is the sub-concsious) to do the driving for me I know it can re-act much quicker than my conscious mind to any driving related error, so fast that reaction blurs into anticipation. However, I don't have a switch to switch between sub-conscious and conscious, the only things I can to make that switch is to keep my conscious mind so busy with other things (easy on lap 1/in a chase etc.) and just try and avoid going through my join the dots scripts. I of course have to pay attention to braking points etc., the subconcsious isn't that good, but it's more of a glance than the fixed stare you often get into whilst testing. It's virtually impossible to do this for a whole race but I know I have more accidenrts when in join the dots mode (unless that is also couple with a toning down of pace). My fault that I refer to is I often try and maintain the same pace whilst lapsing into join the dots or just not having my sub-conscious on song. To me driving in any way safe is not really possible without getting into a position where I'm joining the dots, or more specifically, my conscious mind is dealing with the mechanics of driving. So, in answer to your question then yes, I do always try and avoid safe driving :) but "safe" being a mental state rather than an actual measure of the likelyhood of crashing. Funny you should ask this, I have just realised why I hate Spa and am very poor at racing there. It's impossible for me to get in that state there unless I'm on someones tail. When the next requirement to do anything is over 30secs away and you can see your next braking point looking up for 10-15 secs or so there is no way to busy yourself enough to let the sub-conscious deal with it. >This raises the question: in your opinion, would driving at the slighty >higher level (but at the same time freeing up attention otherwise spent on >trying to be faultless) be more productive in the long run? Yes, put like that, absolutely, but I can appreciate it's difficult to let go. AI races are good for this if you get them at about your speed and have plenty of em. I often race 19 AI which are usually a bit slower than me (I'll use GEM or Markenpol to arrange this). The idea is I should be able to pass most of them in a few laps so I'm always doing something. This should be much easier to arrrange once the new GPLAIM program is released at the end of this week. Hope I've answered your question, if not or you have more questions, fire away. Maxx

Jan Verschueren <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> *We* did, but that is not to say I cannot enter *another*, right? > > I never got that grudge match against DGF in the end, so I wouldn't like to > miss out on an opportunity to let my driving do the talking with reference > to mr. Pabst. We've locked horns in a similar thread in the past. I took > exemption to myself and other simracers I respect *a lot* being included in > a generalisation thought to be detrimental to the sport/community and I'm > still angry about that. I haven't commented in this thread as all of what I > wrote back then is still valid and unriposted by the gentleman in question > (so nothing new to add). > > How's about a Le Mans Sarthe GP, BTW?

Will GPL refuel the car if you pit? Jonny not started running races that long yet...

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1ZhF7.21506$[email hidden]... > Ah....a sensible "solution" is put forth.....from all this angrygibberish. Talking of which, read any of your own posts recently? Doug

"Jonny Hodgson" wrote...

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> > <snip> > > How's about a Le Mans Sarthe GP, BTW? > > Will GPL refuel the car if you pit? > > Jonny > not started running races that long yet...

No, it won't do any work on the car, why the option to pit other than for penalties is even there, I don't know (Nx compatibility is my best guess). Using GPL it would have to be a Grand Prix race (i.e. about 300km), the 24hr event is out of the question. The cars in GPL were never meant for use in that race anyway. I merely suggested it as, IMO, it's a suitable choice for a GP event. Apart from possibly the s/f area at the start of the race it would be a pretty safe track to race at, I think. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > *We* did, but that is not to say I cannot enter *another*, right? > > I never got that grudge match against DGF in the end, ??????? DGF

Slight exaggeration on my part. IIRC you were going to join Eldreds Rouen GP, in reponse to a challenge by Thom (was it?). As I was intending to run this race anyway, I thought I'd play the "talent vs practise" angle to try and unsettle you and hence increase my chances of coming out on top. In the end I guess you couldn't make the event and I perhaps psyched myself up too much, as, in a rare bout of lap 1 aggression, I tangled with Roger Squires which seriously compromised my consistency for the rest of the race. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "David G Fisher" wrote...

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> > "Jan Verschueren" wrote... > > I never got that grudge match against DGF in the end, > > ??????? > > DGF

Thanks for this gem of a reply Malcolm. More than I bargained for and it does open up a whole can of worms/questions for me, but I need to organize my thoughts before I can present them as something you might be able to work with. I'll get back to you. This is the 2nd time in my simracing "career" I've been blindsided by the comments of a better/more complete simracer from whom I sought advice. Last time I had to re-assess my motivation and priorities to be able to continue, this time I'm forced to question the way I "drive" (and I don't mean the techniques I use, but really fundamentally). Anyone smart/humble enough to re-evaluate his/her driving in the face of what you posted will benefit greatly, IMO. Thanks again, Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Maxx" wrote... > Jan, > > <some really profound stuff snipped>

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Slight exaggeration on my part. > > IIRC you were going to join Eldreds Rouen GP, in reponse to a challenge by > Thom (was it?). No, I just thought I'd be a little sarcastic that day. >As I was intending to run this race anyway, I thought I'd > play the "talent vs practise" angle to try and unsettle you and hence > increase my chances of coming out on top. You'd destroy me. No need to try and unsettle me. I have about 40 hours of total time in GPL (almost every bit of it was with the demo and in the first year after it was released). > In the end I guess you couldn't make the event and I perhaps psychedmyself > up too much, as, in a rare bout of lap 1 aggression, I tangled with Roger > Squires which seriously compromised my consistency for the rest of therace. You crashed because your nothing but a stinkin' hotlapper. :-p David G Fisher

I don't think a comparison with something else is really necessary but if I have to come up with one.... Sim racing = music. Practicing GPL for three years = practicing the same song for three years. You can improve in sim racing and in music over many years, but to practice the same song or the same sim for that long, and then judge your talent or progress on the results seems ridiculous to me. David G Fisher "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <oWCF7.182132$[email hidden]>, "David GFisher" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I think any adult who plays the same game for as long as Alex and then > >thinks he's actually accomplished something needs to be studied by a teamof > >psychiatrists at a major European clinic. > > Why, David? Do you use the same reasoning for sports? I don't rememberif > I've asked you this before. If someone has been bowling for 10 years, and > finally rolls a 300, does that make his accomplishment any less worthy?Why > does it matter the time frame it took? And, if you expect success at > *anything* to come easy, then why even bother? If you do something goodin > your chosen field/sport/hobby quickly then it isn't much of a challenge.If

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> you can't do it quickly, would you classify yourself as a failure? > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <DM%G7.195669$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >I don't think a comparison with something else is really necessary but if I >have to come up with one.... >I asked you for a comparison because I didn't agree with the way you stated it. I was trying to find your reasoning for your comments.

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>Sim racing = music. > >Practicing GPL for three years = practicing the same song for three years. > >You can improve in sim racing and in music over many years, but to practice >the same song or the same sim for that long, and then judge your talent or >progress on the results seems ridiculous to me.

Songs have a finite amount of notes, chords, and words. There's only a certain 'level' to get to, and no one can go higher. You CAN get a song perfect, and there's nowhere else to go. With any sim, there's always someone better, always more to improve. Well, I still don't agree with you, but it's a free country... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Considering that GPL has 11 tracks (originally) that would mean at least a full album in musical terms (to use your comparison, David) so, what you maybe should have said is that practicing GPL for three years is the same as practising the same ALBUM for three years, not one song, but eleven - a little less ridiculous maybe? However, given the fact that there are around 130+ tracks available for GPL, that would translate into hmmmmm, let's see... at least 11 albums?. Now then, how many groups have produced 11 cd's worth of music in the last 3 years? I would say that any band who churned out music on that scale was an exception talent indeed, especially if said music was of top quality and people appreciated and enjoyed it in the same way that most sim racers do with GPL. What do you do with music: listen to it in your spare time as a means of relaxation? What do most sim-racers do with GPL: play the game in their spare time as a means of relaxation maybe? Yeah, simply ridiculous... rotf Gary "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DM%G7.195669$[email hidden]... > I don't think a comparison with something else is really necessary but ifI

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> have to come up with one.... > > Sim racing = music. > > Practicing GPL for three years = practicing the same song for three years. > > You can improve in sim racing and in music over many years, but to

practice > the same song or the same sim for that long, and then judge your talent or > progress on the results seems ridiculous to me. > > David G Fisher >

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > I don't think a comparison with something else is really necessary but ifI > have to come up with one.... Comparison is the tool of the naive. You can put about everything to compare and find a vague relation to the compared. > Sim racing = music. > > Practicing GPL for three years = practicing the same song for three years. > > You can improve in sim racing and in music over many years, but topractice > the same song or the same sim for that long, and then judge your talent or > progress on the results seems ridiculous to me. It's just bares no relation, music is art, racing is a sport. Especially since most classical musicians DO practice the same pieces for years, and become closer to perfection each time. Some people race in real-life on the same track on Friday nights for decades. Are they inferior to "Thou DGF worshipped self-God" ? I don't think so. Can they judge their talents? You sure bet, they are racing for Christ's sake. Yet in GPL people can race new tracks each week or so, there's hundreds of them on the web. Each gives the passionate racer the chance to master the tracks, and have the pleasure of racing, pushing the car to it's limit. (I now lower myself to your standards and give you an invented comparison that makes as much non-sense as yours) : Sim racing = DGF's trolling Practicing GPL for 3 years = DGF practicing the same trolling routines for three years. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

I think sim racing is closer to Eldred's analogy then David's one of music. It is more like a sport albeit not one that requires physical attributes per se. So suggesting someone is crazy to play snooker for 20 years would be pretty close. When I was younger I played snooker in a local league. One of my team members wasn't very good even at our low level. He was in his fifties and had played for most of his life. When he got a reasonable break (similar to breaking 1:30 at Monza!) we all cheered and he was overjoyed. It was a personal achievement that had taking him close to a lifetime. His achievement was way short of what I had done, which in turn was woefully short of an up & coming 8 year old. So should we be sending this fifty year old off to a psychiatrist ward for thinking he had achieved something, or congratulating him on his moment of triumph? Tony "David G Fisher" wrote > I don't think a comparison with something else is really necessary but ifI

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> have to come up with one.... > > Sim racing = music. > > Practicing GPL for three years = practicing the same song for three years. > > You can improve in sim racing and in music over many years, but to

practice

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> the same song or the same sim for that long, and then judge your talent or > progress on the results seems ridiculous to me. > > David G Fisher > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <oWCF7.182132$[email hidden]>, "David G > Fisher" > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >I think any adult who plays the same game for as long as Alex and then > > >thinks he's actually accomplished something needs to be studied by a

team > of > > >psychiatrists at a major European clinic. > > > > Why, David? Do you use the same reasoning for sports? I don't remember > if > > I've asked you this before. If someone has been bowling for 10 years,and

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> > finally rolls a 300, does that make his accomplishment any less worthy? > Why > > does it matter the time frame it took? And, if you expect success at > > *anything* to come easy, then why even bother? If you do something good > in > > your chosen field/sport/hobby quickly then it isn't much of a challenge. > If > > you can't do it quickly, would you classify yourself as a failure? > > > > Eldred

> You crashed because your nothing but a stinkin' hotlapper. :-p > > David G Fisher LOL :)

Do you know why I made the "psychiatrist" comment? David G Fisher "Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I think sim racing is closer to Eldred's analogy then David's one ofmusic. > > It is more like a sport albeit not one that requires physical attributesper > se. > > So suggesting someone is crazy to play snooker for 20 years would bepretty > close. > > When I was younger I played snooker in a local league. One of my team > members wasn't very good even at our low level. He was in his fifties and > had played for most of his life. When he got a reasonable break (similarto

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> breaking 1:30 at Monza!) we all cheered and he was overjoyed. It was a > personal achievement that had taking him close to a lifetime. His > achievement was way short of what I had done, which in turn was woefully > short of an up & coming 8 year old. > > So should we be sending this fifty year old off to a psychiatrist ward for > thinking he had achieved something, or congratulating him on his moment of > triumph? > > Tony > > "David G Fisher" wrote > > > I don't think a comparison with something else is really necessary but

if > I > > have to come up with one.... > > > > Sim racing = music. > > > > Practicing GPL for three years = practicing the same song for threeyears. > > > > You can improve in sim racing and in music over many years, but to > practice > > the same song or the same sim for that long, and then judge your talentor

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> > progress on the results seems ridiculous to me. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <oWCF7.182132$[email hidden]>, "David

G > > Fisher" > > > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > >I think any adult who plays the same game for as long as Alex andthen > > > >thinks he's actually accomplished something needs to be studied by a > team > > of > > > >psychiatrists at a major European clinic. > > > > > > Why, David? Do you use the same reasoning for sports? I don'tremember > > if > > > I've asked you this before. If someone has been bowling for 10 years, > and > > > finally rolls a 300, does that make his accomplishment any lessworthy? > > Why > > > does it matter the time frame it took? And, if you expect success at > > > *anything* to come easy, then why even bother? If you do somethinggood > > in > > > your chosen field/sport/hobby quickly then it isn't much of achallenge.

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> > If > > > you can't do it quickly, would you classify yourself as a failure? > > > > > > Eldred > > >

"David G Fisher" wrote > Do you know why I made the "psychiatrist" comment? > > David G Fisher No David, I read your comment: > I think any adult who plays the same game for as long as Alex and > then thinks he's actually accomplished something needs to be studied > by a team of psychiatrists at a major European clinic. To which my snooker analogy stands Now I don't know if there was more to this thread and I have plucked out this section out of context in true journalistic style, or there was some other discussion I have missed. So to be quite honest no I don't know. I guess it could be: Too obsure for me Too clever for me Some friendly anti-GPL banter A personal (not so friendly) attack Part of the Pabst/DGF "off their heads" theory subscribed to elsewhere in this thread - not by me of course :-) Or it could be known of the above! Cheers Tony

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:vG%G7.195648$[email hidden]... ><Snip!> > > You crashed because your nothing but a stinkin' hotlapper. :-p >Hehe, nice one. I wouldn't call him that, though! More of a lukewarmlapper. :-) /Jens

On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 00:44:19 +0100, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Thanks for this gem of a reply Malcolm. More than I bargained for and it >does open up a whole can of worms/questions for me, but I need to organize >my thoughts before I can present them as something you might be able to work >with. I'll get back to you. > >This is the 2nd time in my simracing "career" I've been blindsided by the >comments of a better/more complete simracer from whom I sought advice. Last >time I had to re-assess my motivation and priorities to be able to continue, >this time I'm forced to question the way I "drive" (and I don't mean the >techniques I use, but really fundamentally). Anyone smart/humble enough to >re-evaluate his/her driving in the face of what you posted will benefit >greatly, IMO.

Jan, Very nice of you to say so, it's not just the premise of the "less complete" [in your words] sim-driver who needs to step back occasionally and re-asses. I certainly do it from time to time, and many of the top real-world drivers that I know or have read about do this also. It actually fits in with the other sub-thread going on here about practice. MUSIC When you practice a song, you will be be following a script in your mind, while you are playing one chord you are thinking about the next, or a tricky change-over up ahead. Whilst you are singing the words you are visualising the line in your mind and already "thinking" about the next word and so on. Yes, you can still do this on stage and perform a fair rendition of the song, but it will probably lack feeling and IMO you won't enjoy the experience as much. SPORT Lets take football and tennis, how often do you suspect, not just the great footballers but also the Sunday afernoon club footballers run through technique related issue in the course of a game, or any tennis player. If you are recieving a service do you "think", ah ok, this ones going wide and long, I need to move to here and perform this shot. I need to place it straight back on the diagonal as I can see out of the corner of my eye that my opponent is moving across court to block a straight return. That process does happen and dozens of other scanarios as well but in the sub-conscious. In order to perform those moves the player needs lots of (technique) practice, in order to decide (subconsciously) the best move in those circumstances requires that he has had lots of prior experience and has put thought into matcgplay tactics (conscious thought which is stored in his sub-conscious for lightning fast retrieval). Motor Racing is no different apart from perhaps its breadth. Learn F.Ford well and have some degree of talent and you should do well, then you have to relearn a lot of driving and race technique for the aero cars like F3, F3000 is a different challenge as the cars behave very differently, then maybe F1, different again although you have more to call on at this stage. Then there are Saloons, Stock Cars, Hot-Rods, Grass Track cars, Hillclimbs, Trials, Rallying, Truck Racing etc. etc. etc. Going back to music briefly, I have often compared a GPL race to a musical performance, or a real race for that matter. I was for many years in my youth a performing musician so I have experience of both sides. I particularly remember the difference in mindset between a practice session and a performance. For some reason it comes very natural to think this way with music and other sports but from what Jan has said and others I have spoken to, it seems we don't make the same connection with GPL racing and often approach racing in the same mindset as offline practising. It still works but IMO not as well and is not so rewarding. Another thing strikes me and I wondeer if any of the rally sim drivers have a similar experience. I find I drive a rally sim in 2 different ways, the actually thing I'm doing is the same, either a single stage or full rally and my motivation is exactly the same (to go as fast as possible). I never have a mindset of practicing technique. Sometimes I will be looking ahead at each corner, the apex, the outside verge and listening to the co-driver calls intently. I am gripping the wheel qute tight and I can feel tension in my shoulders. I can put up a decent time BUT other times I'll sit, very relaxed, almost zombie like. I won't make any real attempt to interpret the co-driver calls (i.e if he says 200, 3 left I won't THINK I need to this, then that. It will simply register and I'll do what's required when it's required. I won't consciously look at any apex of any verge. instead I am sort of leaving my eyes wide open to take in the scene and (I know this sounds kooky) just let this go straight through to my sub-conscious without passing through and being evaluated by my conscious. I particularly like stages with lots going on (France etc. in CMR2, Corsica/Monte Carlo in CMR1) as these just force that process to happen for me. If you've ever watched in-car action from the WRC you will know what mean. The drivers seem incredibly relaxed and have a fixed gaze rather than darty eyes. There is no way that any of them are THINKING at all about what they are physically doing, or about what technique to use for the next bend, or even registering what the next bend is. It's why Makkinen had so much trouble getting to grips with a new co-driver in Australia. Anyway, more food for thought and probably kooky enough to put anyone off replying :) Cheers Maxx

LOL... touche! Jan./December 26th, wiseguy! ;-) =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Jens H. Kruuse" wrote...

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> "David G Fisher" skrev... > > <Snip!> > > > > You crashed because your nothing but a stinkin' > > hotlapper. :-p > > Hehe, nice one. I wouldn't call him that, though! More of > a lukewarmlapper. :-) > > /Jens > >

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > Do you know why I made the "psychiatrist" comment? It must be a bore to live in your world where you can't have a passion, or any desire to achieve goals. For you, it's a mental problem to the social life of that person, while failing to realise that each and every soul on the planet must be mentally ill because they all have a passion (except you, it seems). You have absolutely no enthusiasm. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

He seems pretty enthusiastic about giving GPLers a hard time. Pretty sad really. -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> ymenard wrote > It must be a bore to live in your world where you can't have a passion, or > any desire to achieve goals. For you, it's a mental problem to the social > life of that person, while failing to realise that each and every soul on > the planet must be mentally ill because they all have a passion (except you, > it seems). You have absolutely no enthusiasm. > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World...

You know me so well. I guess I have an online girlfriend now. David G Fisher "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jXhH7.23358$[email hidden]...

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> >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Do you know why I made the "psychiatrist" comment? > > > It must be a bore to live in your world where you can't have a passion, or > any desire to achieve goals. For you, it's a mental problem to the social > life of that person, while failing to realise that each and every soul on > the planet must be mentally ill because they all have a passion (except

you,

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> it seems). You have absolutely no enthusiasm. > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

Pretty sad that some people can't follow a progression of events and understand why it was done. "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9skbhr$hj6$[email hidden]...

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> He seems pretty enthusiastic about giving GPLers a hard time. Pretty sad > really. > > -- > > Ian P > <email invalid due to spam> > > > ymenard wrote > > It must be a bore to live in your world where you can't have a passion,

or > > any desire to achieve goals. For you, it's a mental problem to thesocial > > life of that person, while failing to realise that each and every soulon

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> > the planet must be mentally ill because they all have a passion (except > you, > > it seems). You have absolutely no enthusiasm. > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- May the Downforce be with you... > > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > >

As hilarious as this thread has been with it's ups and downs, this post is a reminder of why I'm still following it, painful as it may be. The pure comedy! (this one, and that really long wordy funny one for the otherside are my two favs so far) Curtis "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:X%hF7.21507$[email hidden]... > Luke... > > You should try to be more specific and direct......when you don't like > something that a person says or posts. Man, I had a hard time figuringout

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> if you were "for me, or against me" dude! Which is it? > > Tom > > > "Luke Mclean" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3be53bfc$0$3444$[email hidden]... > > Who in the FARK is this tom or whoever he is. > > I mean what kind of pin dick would come on and write some dribble out of > his > > arse saying how crap and inconsistant the fast guys are when he cant

even > > break a 1.32 at monza HA!! > > > > It sounds like this guy is just bloody jealous or trying to justify his > > crappiness by downing the guys like Huttu, Wilke who make this simfucking > > great. > > > > Theres always a bunch of tossers hiding in the corner bagging the fuckout

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> > of guys who are better than them. You remind me of 2 guys who have done > the > > same things as you. > > > > Mark Beckman : Tosser who cant make tracks for shit, fugly pieces of > > undrivable crap which look like some fuckin retard put together, yet he > > thinks they are works of art?. Smart ass who thinks he's king fucking > shit. > > When someone disagrees he will argue his balls of at em till they just > give > > up in disgust. > > SHUT UP FOO > > > > Blade: I dunno this guys real name, but whoever the cunt is, he's king > toss > > pot. He goes around telling everyone that most of the people are ahead

of

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> > him are cheaters. > > > > Tom , you have ranked up there with the greatest fuckwits to ever grace > the > > sims, and i feel sorry for ya, no the hotlappers arent the insects, its > > arrogant cockroaches like you to do their best to put down the guys that > > work hard for their success. > > > > I mean you know your probably gonna be fired now for talking your shit,

i > > suppose its justice, because i dunno how anyone could employ such a > > dimwitted cockhead like yourself into a business thats main target is > > dedicated sim racers. Until your fired, i dont think your company will > sell > > anything. So i hope BRD read all of this and bloody fire you and makesure

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> > you never work in the industry again. > > > > Regards > > > > Luke > > > > > > > > > >

You say sim racing = music and practicing GPL for 3 years is like practicing the same song for three years.... Well, there's 7 cars in GPL which all handle very differently, and 11 original tracks and 130+ add on tracks (I havent counted). So thats like learning 7 different different musical instruments and practicing at least 11 orchestral pieces. That's going some!! So, if the Lotus is the Piccolo and the Honda is the Tuba, then the Nurburgring is the 1812 overture!! Pointless drivel I know. Lol SpeedFreek.

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > You know me so well. I guess I have an online girlfriend now. <smirks> -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Maxx wrote... <snip> > > It's why Makkinen had so much trouble getting to grips > with a new co-driver in Australia. > > Anyway, more food for thought and probably kooky > enough to put anyone off replying :) So your saying it's not just practice - but familiarity as well? I've driven several cars in the last 12 months. For each, I knew what to do but it needed a bit of time to become comfortable (so I didn't run over old ladies and school kids). Pedal feel - where the gear shift, indicators, clutch etc. Currently driving an auto V8 with loads of torque so the hire car last weekend with 1.6l, 4 cyls and 5 speed was a re-awakening. Messy first 100m but became lots of fun from then on. Back home to the 5.7l and a new learning curve with even more fun. That was pretty fluffy - how do you recommend getting a new look at GPL? I'm struggling to get below 2:08 at bathurst compared to the aliens 2:00x. Maybe, I just need to go back to your tutorial... Tony