Logi MOMO Wheel Comparison....please!

Hi, I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel looks and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to dislike. Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly the same as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB? The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari, anyway), though the pedal platform looks great. No shifter....... :( All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more than the Ferrari. But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two sims so far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on the wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution on the pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonder what the MOMO is? Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good) Logi will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences. It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS shifter, too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but now that I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seems to have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zillion times better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turning radius. Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have been classier. The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information or comparisons for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here. Thanks, Marc. -- **************************************************************************** Marc Collins [email hidden] Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change to take effect. Reboot now? ****************************************************************************

I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation Wingman FF and a new MOMO. In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original Wingman FF. I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to eliminate slop. It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO. It would be a deal for about $120 US. Tim On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:04:40 -0500, "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hi, > >I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel looks >and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are >articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to >dislike. > >Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly the same >as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the >difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB? > >The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari, anyway), >though the pedal platform looks great. > >No shifter....... :( > >All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more than the >Ferrari. > >But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two sims so >far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on the >wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution on the >pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonder what >the MOMO is? > >Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am >hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good) Logi >will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences. > >It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS shifter, >too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but now that >I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seems to >have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zillion times >better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the >resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turning radius. > >Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have been >classier. > >The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information or comparisons >for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here. > >Thanks, > >Marc.

Hi Marc, How much did it cost at Costco? I'll go check the Costco's around Ottawa. I've seen it online for about $270 CDN. Thanks, Brian "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4pGE7.33228$[email hidden]...

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> Hi, > > I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel looks > and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are > articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to > dislike. > > Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly the same > as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the > difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB? > > The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari, anyway), > though the pedal platform looks great. > > No shifter....... :( > > All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more than the > Ferrari. > > But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two sims

so > far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on the > wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution on the > pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonderwhat > the MOMO is? > > Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am > hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good)Logi > will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences. > > It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS shifter, > too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but nowthat > I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seems to > have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zilliontimes

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> better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the > resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turning radius. > > Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have been > classier. > > The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information or

comparisons

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> for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here. > > Thanks, > > Marc. > > -- >

**************************************************************************** > Marc Collins > [email hidden] > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change > to take effect. Reboot now? >**************************************************************************** > > >

Tim O <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation > Wingman FF and a new MOMO. > In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original > Wingman FF. Oh noooo... I've got an older LWFF and I love it, but I realize its in its death throws right now. > I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to > an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it > had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the > conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive Double oh nooooo! Gear Driven!!?? What was Logitech thinking with this!? That's the biggest selling point of the older LWFF over the GP, IMO. > unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to > eliminate slop. > It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO. > It would be a deal for about $120 US. I won't be pounding the pavement for one of these any time soon in that case. I picked up a Force GP on E-Bay for $50 just to use with my PS2, and it has told me a lot about gear driven force feedback :-( Yeah, if they get down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you could put enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force feedback! John

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> > Tim > > On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:04:40 -0500, "Marc Collins" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel

looks > >and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are > >articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to > >dislike. > > > >Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly thesame > >as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the > >difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB? > > > >The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari,anyway), > >though the pedal platform looks great. > > > >No shifter....... :( > > > >All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more thanthe > >Ferrari. > > > >But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two simsso > >far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on the > >wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution onthe > >pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonderwhat > >the MOMO is? > > > >Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am > >hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good)Logi > >will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences. > > > >It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS shifter, > >too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but nowthat > >I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seemsto > >have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zilliontimes > >better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the > >resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turningradius. > > > >Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have been > >classier. > > > >The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information orcomparisons > >for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Marc. >

That seemed to be my impression, too. Can you return yours? Costco would allow a return, but I somehow managed to resist the temptation this time! Marc. "Tim O" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation > Wingman FF and a new MOMO. > In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original > Wingman FF. I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to > an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it > had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the > conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive > unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to > eliminate slop. > It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO. > It would be a deal for about $120 US. > > Tim > > On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:04:40 -0500, "Marc Collins" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Hi, > > > >I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel

looks > >and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are > >articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to > >dislike. > > > >Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly thesame > >as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the > >difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB? > > > >The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari,anyway), > >though the pedal platform looks great. > > > >No shifter....... :( > > > >All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more thanthe > >Ferrari. > > > >But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two simsso > >far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on the > >wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution onthe > >pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonderwhat > >the MOMO is? > > > >Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am > >hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good)Logi > >will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences. > > > >It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS shifter, > >too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but nowthat > >I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seemsto > >have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zilliontimes > >better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the > >resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turningradius. > > > >Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have been > >classier. > > > >The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information orcomparisons > >for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here. > > > >Thanks, > > > >Marc. >

$260. Mice and controllers and many software titles aren't much of a bargain at Costco...unlike most other items. Marc. "BrianMW" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:x7SE7.425177$[email hidden]...

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> Hi Marc, > How much did it cost at Costco? I'll go check the Costco's around Ottawa. > I've seen it online for about $270 CDN. > > Thanks, Brian > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:4pGE7.33228$[email hidden]... > > Hi, > > > > I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel

looks > > and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are > > articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to > > dislike. > > > > Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly thesame > > as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the > > difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB? > > > > The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari,anyway), > > though the pedal platform looks great. > > > > No shifter....... :( > > > > All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more thanthe > > Ferrari. > > > > But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two sims > so > > far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on the > > wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution onthe

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> > pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonder > what > > the MOMO is? > > > > Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am > > hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good) > Logi > > will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences. > > > > It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS

shifter, > > too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but now > that > > I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seemsto > > have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zillion > times > > better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the > > resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turningradius. > > > > Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would havebeen

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> > classier. > > > > The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information or > comparisons > > for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Marc. > > > > -- > > >

****************************************************************************

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> > Marc Collins > > [email hidden] > > > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change > > to take effect. Reboot now? > > >

**************************************************************************** > > > > > > > >

"John Cauthen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s0tnv$dv3t$[email hidden]...

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> > Tim O <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation > > Wingman FF and a new MOMO. > > In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original > > Wingman FF. > > Oh noooo... I've got an older LWFF and I love it, but I realize its in its > death throws right now. > > > I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to > > an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it > > had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the > > conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive > > Double oh nooooo! Gear Driven!!?? What was Logitech thinking with this!? > That's the biggest selling point of the older LWFF over the GP, IMO. > > > unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to > > eliminate slop. > > It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO. > > It would be a deal for about $120 US. > > I won't be pounding the pavement for one of these any time soon in that > case. I picked up a Force GP on E-Bay for $50 just to use with my PS2,

and > it has told me a lot about gear driven force feedback :-( Yeah, if theyget > down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you could put > enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force > feedback! > > John You are not in a position to comment if you dont own one or know one. Bart Westra

"BrianMW" <[email hidden]> wrote > Hi Marc, > How much did it cost at Costco? I'll go check the Costco's around Ottawa. > I've seen it online for about $270 CDN. > > Thanks, Brian Check http://www.dealdirect.ca . They have it for CDN $248.85 as a 'special order' - I think that means they don't carry it in stock, but will bring one in for you. They have an Ottawa store just east of Beacon Heights at 5370 Canotek Road. ...Klinn

"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4pGE7.33228$[email hidden]... > Hi, > > I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel looks > and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are > articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to > dislike. I am not aware of that. They are about equal to the MSFF pedals in my experience which are regarded as good pedals by most. > Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly the same > as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the > difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB? The feel while driving is quite different from what you feel when no game is running; also the gears need to be "rubbed in". I own a MSFF as well and that took about two weeks to rub in. Premium FFB, I don't know who says so, Logitech? Anyway the wheel movement is very precise and so is the FFB. Not hard to imagine that the ball bearings help to transmit the FF to the players hand. Then the FF is quite powerfull and capable of both smooth and violent actions. > The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari, anyway), > though the pedal platform looks great. See above. > No shifter....... :( Two levers with a very nice feel that you can reach in any position :) > All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more than the > Ferrari. Definitely worth the investment. > But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two simsso > far with accurate FFB) You must have missed out on GP3. --how does it feel? It feels great :) What is the resolution on the > wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution on the > pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonderwhat > the MOMO is? Wheel 1024, pedals 255 each. > Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am > hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good)Logi > will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences. I run it now with the Papy defaults for the msff (lat 0.035, damping 30, max force 450). Perhaps because that is what I am used to. In the settings overall force at 100% and damping at 80%. > It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS shifter, > too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but nowthat > I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seems to > have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zilliontimes > better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the > resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turning radius. If you like it so much, why look at other options? Bart Westra

On Sat, 3 Nov 2001 09:55:14 -0500, "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote: >That seemed to be my impression, too. Can you return yours? Costco would >allow a return, but I somehow managed to resist the temptation this time! I'll keep the MOMO because it's not a horrible thing... The forces are good and strong and I like the shape of the wheel grip itself, it just doesn't have the great feel of the cable drive IMO. My original Wingman FF is about 2 years old now, and it's going to be a sad day when it finally craps out. Tim

Bart Westra <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s1oor$733$[email hidden]...

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> > "John Cauthen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9s0tnv$dv3t$[email hidden]... > > > > Tim O <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation > > > Wingman FF and a new MOMO. > > > In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original > > > Wingman FF. > > > > Oh noooo... I've got an older LWFF and I love it, but I realize its in

its

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> > death throws right now. > > > > > I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to > > > an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it > > > had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the > > > conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive > > > > Double oh nooooo! Gear Driven!!?? What was Logitech thinking with

this!?

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> > That's the biggest selling point of the older LWFF over the GP, IMO. > > > > > unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to > > > eliminate slop. > > > It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO. > > > It would be a deal for about $120 US. > > > > I won't be pounding the pavement for one of these any time soon in that > > case. I picked up a Force GP on E-Bay for $50 just to use with my PS2, > and > > it has told me a lot about gear driven force feedback :-( Yeah, if they > get > > down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you could

put > > enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force > > feedback! > > > > John > > You are not in a position to comment if you dont own one or know one. Bart, What you are saying is true up to a point, but I have now heard from a MOMO owner who tells me that he still feels this gritty meshing of the gear drive, although it's not as obvious as the GP. I guess I'll have to put my hands on one to make a call one way or the other. When I do I'll come back and make a more informed comment ;-) Thanks for weighing in!

>> down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you could put >> enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force >> feedback! Yes you can, the Momo proves it. The LWGP was a crappy low budget wheel, you can't compare it to a gear driven wheel with ball bearings. Andre >> John

Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >> down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you couldput

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> >> enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force > >> feedback! > > Yes you can, the Momo proves it. The LWGP was a crappy low budget > wheel, you can't compare it to a gear driven wheel with ball bearings. > > Andre

Thanks for your take on this Andre... that's the kind of news I'm hoping to hear! I just hope I get to test drive one soon. John

"John Cauthen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s2378$1ab7$[email hidden]...

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> > Bart Westra <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9s1oor$733$[email hidden]... >> > > You are not in a position to comment if you dont own one or know one. > > Bart, > > What you are saying is true up to a point, but I have now heard from a

MOMO > owner who tells me that he still feels this gritty meshing of the gear > drive, although it's not as obvious as the GP. I guess I'll have to putmy > hands on one to make a call one way or the other. When I do I'll comeback > and make a more informed comment ;-) > > > Thanks for weighing in! Hi John, The best way is to wait a couple of weeks for your friend to "exercise" the wheel and then try his :) Besides smoothing the gears there will also be the effect of getting used to it, and not noticing every detail after a while. For example the MSFF has quite a bit of play (you can wiggle the wheel) that worried me for some time, but now I don't notice it at all. Bart

Agreed, the MOMO is infinitely better than the GP. Just because they are both gear driven, and for the GP this made it inferior, doesn't automatically mean the MOMO is also inferior. It's far more precise and solid feeling than the cable driven LWFF. I'm very pleased. -- Joe Marques "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >> down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you could put > >> enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force > >> feedback! > > Yes you can, the Momo proves it. The LWGP was a crappy low budget > wheel, you can't compare it to a gear driven wheel with ball bearings. > > Andre > > > >> John >

Thanks, I'll give them a call. Brian "Klinn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sWZE7.208$[email hidden]... > > "BrianMW" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Hi Marc, > > How much did it cost at Costco? I'll go check the Costco's aroundOttawa. > > I've seen it online for about $270 CDN. > > > > Thanks, Brian > > Check http://www.dealdirect.ca . They have it for CDN $248.85 as a'special > order' - I think that means they don't carry it in stock, but will bringone

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> in for you. They have an Ottawa store just east of Beacon Heights at 5370 > Canotek Road. > > ...Klinn > > >

The wheel is anything but cheap. It is NOTHING like the Force GP. I can tell that after only using it for 1/2 hour. You can feel the difference the bearings make. The FF is smooth as glass. The pedals, well, they will take getting used to... -Larry "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4pGE7.33228$[email hidden]...

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> Hi, > > I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel looks > and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals are > articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to > dislike. > > Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly the same > as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the > difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB? > > The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari, anyway), > though the pedal platform looks great. > > No shifter....... :( > > All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more than the > Ferrari. > > But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two sims

so > far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution on the > wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution on the > pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonderwhat > the MOMO is? > > Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am > hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good)Logi > will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences. > > It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS shifter, > too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but nowthat > I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seems to > have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zilliontimes

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> better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the > resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turning radius. > > Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have been > classier. > > The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information or

comparisons

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> for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here. > > Thanks, > > Marc. > > -- >

**************************************************************************** > Marc Collins > [email hidden] > > Your mouse has moved. Windows must be restarted for the change > to take effect. Reboot now? >**************************************************************************** > > >

The Gear Drive in the Momo is no problem at all. It feels quite smooth to me so far, and they tend to get better as they wear in. This is NOT a Force GP wheel. Not in the least. -Larry "John Cauthen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s2378$1ab7$[email hidden]...

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> > Bart Westra <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9s1oor$733$[email hidden]... > > > > "John Cauthen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:9s0tnv$dv3t$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Tim O <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation > > > > Wingman FF and a new MOMO. > > > > In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original > > > > Wingman FF. > > > > > > Oh noooo... I've got an older LWFF and I love it, but I realize its in > its > > > death throws right now. > > > > > > > I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to > > > > an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it > > > > had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the > > > > conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive > > > > > > Double oh nooooo! Gear Driven!!?? What was Logitech thinking with > this!? > > > That's the biggest selling point of the older LWFF over the GP, IMO. > > > > > > > unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to > > > > eliminate slop. > > > > It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO. > > > > It would be a deal for about $120 US. > > > > > > I won't be pounding the pavement for one of these any time soon in

that > > > case. I picked up a Force GP on E-Bay for $50 just to use with myPS2, > > and > > > it has told me a lot about gear driven force feedback :-( Yeah, ifthey

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> > get > > > down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you could > put > > > enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force > > > feedback! > > > > > > John > > > > You are not in a position to comment if you dont own one or know one. > > Bart, > > What you are saying is true up to a point, but I have now heard from a

MOMO > owner who tells me that he still feels this gritty meshing of the gear > drive, although it's not as obvious as the GP. I guess I'll have to putmy > hands on one to make a call one way or the other. When I do I'll comeback

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> and make a more informed comment ;-) > > > Thanks for weighing in! > > >

On Wed, 07 Nov 2001 01:29:15 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >The Gear Drive in the Momo is no problem at all. It feels quite smooth to >me so far, and they tend to get better as they wear in. > >This is NOT a Force GP wheel. Not in the least. I asked Tom from Logitech why they ever produced such a 'low quality' wheel like the LWGP. His answer was that they wanted a low-budget wheel for the mass-market who don't want to spend 150 pound on a force feedback wheel. The downside of this is that I think it hurt the image Logitech had, a producer of high quality force feedback wheels. Same as when Ferarri would start to produce Trabant-like cars for the mass-market.. good for some extra money, bad for the image :) As you said Larry, you can't compare the Momo and LWGP. Totally different market, totally different wheels. Andre >-Larry

As has been stated again and again, the Force GP and Momo wheels do NOT use the same gear-drive assembly. The Momo has NONE of the cheap feel of the Force GP. It is firm and solid. This is the first wheel I've ever owned that has had ZERO 'wobble' on the steering shaft. None. Nada. I'm sure this has to be due to the fully bearing shaft. I think the Wheel itself is pretty much perfect. However, the 'system' could be better in the following two area's: 1. The pedals. Moving from the MSFFW, the Momo pedals are too small, have too little travel, and are too uncomfortable. I'll adapt, but my braking skills are all screwed up right now. 2. The cable that goes to the wheel is too short. You know, these are the two things that are done wrong, again and again, time after time, by most of the controller makers. Why the hell can't they get it right? -Larry "John Cauthen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s0tnv$dv3t$[email hidden]...

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> > Tim O <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > I've never used the Ferrari wheel, but I own both a first generation > > Wingman FF and a new MOMO. > > In my opinion, the MOMO doesn't have as good a feel as the original > > Wingman FF. > > Oh noooo... I've got an older LWFF and I love it, but I realize its in its > death throws right now. > > > I kind of bought mine on impulse, which was mostly due to > > an error in logic... When I saw the MOMO on the shelf, I saw that it > > had the larger old style Wingman FF housing, and jumped to the > > conclusion that it was cable driven. It is not. It is a gear drive > > Double oh nooooo! Gear Driven!!?? What was Logitech thinking with this!? > That's the biggest selling point of the older LWFF over the GP, IMO. > > > unit like the new cheapie wheels, but has bearings on the shafts to > > eliminate slop. > > It's a good wheel, but not worth the premium, IMO. > > It would be a deal for about $120 US. > > I won't be pounding the pavement for one of these any time soon in that > case. I picked up a Force GP on E-Bay for $50 just to use with my PS2,

and > it has told me a lot about gear driven force feedback :-( Yeah, if theyget

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> down to the $120 range I might reconsider, but I'm not sure you could put > enough bearings around the shaft to mask that gritty gear driven force > feedback! > > John > > > > > Tim > > > > On Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:04:40 -0500, "Marc Collins" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Hi, > > > > > >I saw the MOMO at my local Costco today!! The leather wrapped wheel > looks > > >and feels nice and the metal paddles are also very nice. The pedals

are

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> > >articulated (like the Ferrari's), which I prefer, but many here seem to > > >dislike. > > > > > >Sitting on the shelf, off, the wheel movement itself felt exactly the > same > > >as the el-cheapo Formula Force right beside it. What exactly is the > > >difference internally between the two? What exactly is "premium" FFB? > > > > > >The pedal travel looks incredibly short (compared to the Ferrari, > anyway), > > >though the pedal platform looks great. > > > > > >No shifter....... :( > > > > > >All in all, it doesn't look like it is worth almost $100 Cdn more than > the > > >Ferrari. > > > > > >But for those who are experts (and who use GPL and N4--the only two

sims > so > > >far with accurate FFB)--how does it feel? What is the resolution onthe

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> > >wheel and on each pedal? The Ferrari has fantastic high resolution on > the > > >pedals, but half the resolution on the wheel of the MS wheel. I wonder > what > > >the MOMO is? > > > > > >Of course, it will take some tweaking to get it set-up in GPL, so I am > > >hoping people who have switched from the MS, Ferrari, or the old (good) > Logi > > >will give us a very detailed blow-by-blow of the differences. > > > > > >It is not only $100 extra, but you would have to buy the ActLABS

shifter,

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> > >too, to replace the Ferrari. I disliked the Ferrari at first, but now > that > > >I have finally got it set properly (not an intuitive process), it seems > to > > >have the same amazing accuracy of the old Logi, with pedals a zillion > times > > >better and a shifter. The only thing I would really change is the > > >resolution of the wheel...and maybe a few extra degrees of turning > radius. > > > > > >Oh...the red plastic looks a bit chintzy....I think black would have

been

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> > >classier. > > > > > >The Gamespot review was remarkably free of useful information or > comparisons > > >for sim-heads, so I hope we can do our own here. > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > >Marc. > > > >

Larry, although I don't know for sure (yet), the guts of the Momo and the GP could be the same. The difference by a slop-and-slack free ball bearing design is tremendous, even for the old cable driven units. Cya JensSchumi On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 07:10:58 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >As has been stated again and again, the Force GP and Momo wheels do NOT use >the same gear-drive assembly. ><snip> --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ GPLRank: -14.82 Monsters of GPL: sub 95

The Force GP and the Momo do NOT use the same internals. They are completely different wheels. It's not just ball bearings... Logitech really should have used a differnet outer case to prevent this mis-conception... -Larry "JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Larry, > although I don't know for sure (yet), > the guts of the Momo and the GP could be the same. > The difference by a slop-and-slack free ball bearing design is tremendous,even

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> for the old cable driven units. > > Cya > > JensSchumi > > > > On Sat, 10 Nov 2001 07:10:58 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >As has been stated again and again, the Force GP and Momo wheels do NOT

use

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> >the same gear-drive assembly. > > > <snip> > --------------------------------------------- > LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: > http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ > > GPLRank: -14.82 > Monsters of GPL: sub 95

Are you sure? JensSchumi BTW: The casing is an old LWFF look-alike, so no confusion with the GP possible. On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:34:46 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>The Force GP and the Momo do NOT use the same internals. They are >completely different wheels. > >It's not just ball bearings... > >Logitech really should have used a differnet outer case to prevent this >mis-conception... > >-Larry

--------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ GPLRank: -14.82 Monsters of GPL: sub 95

On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 02:01:51 GMT, [email hidden] (JS) wrote: >Are you sure? Indeed.. I wondered the same. I do think they use the same internals, only the momo is (majorly) improved with the ball bearings. Tom, if you read this, any info about this? Andre

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>JensSchumi > >BTW: The casing is an old LWFF look-alike, so no confusion with the GP possible. > >On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:34:46 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>The Force GP and the Momo do NOT use the same internals. They are >>completely different wheels. >> >>It's not just ball bearings... >> >>Logitech really should have used a differnet outer case to prevent this >>mis-conception... >> >>-Larry > >--------------------------------------------- >LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: >http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ > >GPLRank: -14.82 >Monsters of GPL: sub 95

That the Momo is different from the GP? Well, yes. I own (or owned) both. -Larry "JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Are you sure? > > JensSchumi > > BTW: The casing is an old LWFF look-alike, so no confusion with the GPpossible.

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> > On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:34:46 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >The Force GP and the Momo do NOT use the same internals. They are > >completely different wheels. > > > >It's not just ball bearings... > > > >Logitech really should have used a differnet outer case to prevent this > >mis-conception... > > > >-Larry > > --------------------------------------------- > LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: > http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ > > GPLRank: -14.82 > Monsters of GPL: sub 95

It's my understanding that the gear system and FF drive motors are also quite different. -Larry "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 02:01:51 GMT, [email hidden] (JS) wrote: > > >Are you sure? > > Indeed.. I wondered the same. I do think they use the same internals, > only the momo is (majorly) improved with the ball bearings. > Tom, if you read this, any info about this? > > Andre > > >JensSchumi > > > >BTW: The casing is an old LWFF look-alike, so no confusion with the GP

possible.

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> > > >On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 19:34:46 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >>The Force GP and the Momo do NOT use the same internals. They are > >>completely different wheels. > >> > >>It's not just ball bearings... > >> > >>Logitech really should have used a differnet outer case to prevent this > >>mis-conception... > >> > >>-Larry > > > >--------------------------------------------- > >LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: > >http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ > > > >GPLRank: -14.82 > >Monsters of GPL: sub 95 >

You opened the wheel already? Or know somebody who did? Larry, I know from my own experience what difference is between a wheel (old LWFF) with slacky plastic bushings and the same wheel with ball bearings. The difference is so incredible that you really think you have a another wheel. I didn't look into the GP or the MOMO yet, so I can only suspect that Logitech used the existing core for the Momo. For me this makes sense. Cya Jens On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:08:27 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >It's my understanding that the gear system and FF drive motors are also >quite different. > >-Larry > --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ GPLRank: -14.82 Monsters of GPL: sub 95

You really should visit www.wingmanteam.com and their discussion server... -Larry "JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > You opened the wheel already? > Or know somebody who did? > > Larry, I know from my own experience what difference is between a wheel(old > LWFF) with slacky plastic bushings and the same wheel with ball bearings.The > difference is so incredible that you really think you have a anotherwheel. > > I didn't look into the GP or the MOMO yet, so I can only suspect thatLogitech

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> used the existing core for the Momo. For me this makes sense. > > Cya > Jens > > > On Sat, 17 Nov 2001 08:08:27 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >It's my understanding that the gear system and FF drive motors are also > >quite different. > > > >-Larry > > > > --------------------------------------------- > LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: > http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ > > GPLRank: -14.82 > Monsters of GPL: sub 95

Probably I'm too stupid, but I'm not aware and could not find any wingman discussion forum. Can you enlighten me? Jens On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 20:52:06 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: >You really should visit www.wingmanteam.com and their discussion server... > >-Larry > --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ GPLRank: -14.82 Monsters of GPL: sub 95

http://www.wingmanteam.com/discus/messages/board-topics.html "JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Probably I'm too stupid, but I'm not aware and could not find any wingman > discussion forum. Can you enlighten me? > > Jens > > On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 20:52:06 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >You really should visit www.wingmanteam.com and their discussion

server...

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> > > >-Larry > > > > --------------------------------------------- > LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: > http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ > > GPLRank: -14.82 > Monsters of GPL: sub 95

www.wingmanteam.com. Click on the button that says "DISCUSSION FORUM" or something like that on the left. -Larry "JS" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Probably I'm too stupid, but I'm not aware and could not find any wingman > discussion forum. Can you enlighten me? > > Jens > > On Fri, 23 Nov 2001 20:52:06 GMT, "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >You really should visit www.wingmanteam.com and their discussion

server...

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> > > >-Larry > > > > --------------------------------------------- > LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: > http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ > > GPLRank: -14.82 > Monsters of GPL: sub 95