Prove it or SHUT IT

Two people have claimed that some top line GPL drivers cheat. I talk, of course, of Mark Beckman and Tom Pabst. The people they accuse of cheating are people I respect and look up to as drivers far better than I will ever be - and people from whom many can learn. They are drivers of supreme talent, excellent race craft and it's an honour to be in the same field of play as they are. So - to Tom and Mark and Anyone else who believes that the top line people in GPL are cheating. PROVE IT. I look forward to seing your responses. Doug

I can understand your anger Doug. Some points I would like to make. On the + side: Some of the very high scoring GPL rankers have posted there replays and therefore have proven their ability and I admire their skill over a lap. but... On the - side: GPLRank is far too trusting with their rankings. Anyone can cheat with their player.ini file. I do remember that there was a website where you had to send your replays to qualify for listing. You also had to do the lap without all four wheels leaving the grey stuff. Much fairer IMO. There are many out there who are fast, but are they quick? I've seen many who frequently do a fantastic qualifying lap only to crash out early in the race. So at the end of the day I'm not bothered about GPLRank and all the fast ones. I'll stick to consistency and continue winning races against the speed freaks :) Oh my GPLRank is a lowly -24.98 but who cares! Alan "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s4b7t$11iabm$[email hidden]...

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> Two people have claimed that some top line GPL drivers cheat. > > I talk, of course, of Mark Beckman and Tom Pabst. > > The people they accuse of cheating are people I respect and look up to as > drivers far better than I will ever be - and people from whom many can > learn. They are drivers of supreme talent, excellent race craft and it's

an

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> honour to be in the same field of play as they are. > > So - to Tom and Mark and Anyone else who believes that the top line people > in GPL are cheating. PROVE IT. > > I look forward to seing your responses. > > Doug > > >

Doug... I'm not sure where Mark Beckman made this claim, I haven't seen it. I assume you are referring to my post on 11/01/01? I thought it was an obvious tongue-in-cheek joke following the news about the RT timing bug. Apparently, many took it seriously...although I don't see how I could have been more blatantly joking. It did give rise to an opportunity to discuss the issues of hotlapping and whether it breeds clean racing among the new drivers.......which you can read so I won't reiterate. However, as I was reading your post I was struck by a strange sense of de'ja vue. About four years ago, online racing on TEN was just hitting its stride and there were nights when as many as 5,000 online drivers were racing in one of the many TEN-NASCAR race arenas. The most popular track for pickup races was then was Talladega. It was the easiest track to learn (put your foot on the floor and keep the car down on the yellow line) and with minimal knowledge of setups or driving a Winston Cup car you could get up to competitive speeds very quickly. This was before all the crash-fests started.....Talladega was a fun place to race and everyone's qualifying times became a wide source of discussion and speculation in the chat rooms of TEN. There was clearly a relatively small group of drivers at the top of the charts (about 30 or so) that were fast. A couple of months into this, a group of drivers who were initially faster than everyone else....but not by seconds.....by 1/10ths of a second....suddenly shot upwards and started running qualifying runs several miles per hour faster than anyone else (we used mph for our qual run timing) could manage! Claims were made of a better setup (there wasn't much to set up on a fast Talladega car - you dropped the shocks to minimum in the rear, the spoiler to minimum, pumped the tires to max and let it rip....for two laps) and a better racing line (the bottom of the track is the bottom of the track)......and soon suspicions began to appear about "cheating." There was controversy everywhere. There were lots of posts like yours (and that's the reason for the de'ja vue when I read yours)......and lots of disclaimers and perfectly good logical discussions about how it would be impossible to cheat the physics code and no way would these top drivers be cheating anyway.......honor and sportsmanship being sited as proof and so forth. There was mysteriously nothing from Papyrus about all of this. Suddenly, on a Friday afternoon if I recall, an announcement was made on r.a.s. that Papyrus had released a "patch" - "The Talladega Pit Road Speed Bug" patch as I recall it quickly got nicknamed. It seems a bug existed in the N3 code that would allow you to make a qualifying run at Talladega that included going down pit road instead of staying up on the track and going through the tri-oval....and the pit road speed limit "penalty" would not be implemented during a qualifying run. It was discovered quickly by all of us that if we finished our second qualifying lap by cutting down pit road....we could up our qual speeds by 3 to 6 mph...depending on how good we got at doing this. That...was exactly how much this "elite group" had managed to raise their qual speeds over everyone else! As I recall, only one person was kicked off TEN for doing this....and frankly, I don't recall exactly if it was for this violation or another...but that doesn't matter. Most of the "elite" ....since their qual times came plummeting back to the level of everyone else's after installation of the patch (which was mandatory or you couldn't sign on to TEN to race).....either dropped out of online racing or changed their account names and raced under other alias names. I have no clue if any of those guys are still involved in online racing....I kind of doubt it, though. Why am I saying this now? Well, "history" is worth reviewing from time to time. And, your post has to be put into a context of the following statement: "If the capacity to cheat exists....then somebody will cheat." That is a fact in real world racing....and its a fact in online sim racing as well. Am I saying that Greggor and Wolfgang and all the other "elite" fast guys in GPL are cheating? Absolutely not. For several reasons, I don't think they are cheating and if I did.......I think I've made it perfectly clear to everyone that I would have no bones about saying so....right here! What I am saying to you Dave, is this: When posts like yours that challenge for proof of cheating....go unanswered, that fact does **not** prove that cheating is not going on. Sometimes, the "proof" just hasn't been revealed yet. This is not my opinion....this is a fact proven already in the history of racing. Since some of you have problems with knowing when I'm being serious or when I'm kidding around, I would go into the specific reasons why I think the top GPL drivers are NOT cheating....I even consider these reasons as quasi' proof that they are not....but this post is already to characteristically long for me. Perhaps in another post if anyone cares? I'm sure the fast guys don't. Regards, Tom Pabst "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s4b7t$11iabm$[email hidden]...

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> Two people have claimed that some top line GPL drivers cheat. > > I talk, of course, of Mark Beckman and Tom Pabst. > > The people they accuse of cheating are people I respect and look up to as > drivers far better than I will ever be - and people from whom many can > learn. They are drivers of supreme talent, excellent race craft and it's

an

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> honour to be in the same field of play as they are. > > So - to Tom and Mark and Anyone else who believes that the top line people > in GPL are cheating. PROVE IT. > > I look forward to seing your responses. > > Doug > > >

"Alan Coates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xAjF7.12154$[email hidden]...

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> I can understand your anger Doug. > Some points I would like to make. > > On the + side: > Some of the very high scoring GPL rankers have posted there replays and > therefore have proven their ability and I admire their skill over a lap. > > but... > > On the - side: > GPLRank is far too trusting with their rankings. Anyone can cheat with

their > player.ini file. Not talking about GPLRank. Who cares who cheats and who doesnt in GPL Rank I'm talking about RACING - wheel to wheel with the best doing 30 1:27's at Monza in a row. As for Pabst - if your post WAS a joke (and I am not alone in thinking that it wasnt and you're just trying to back down without losing face - it's WAY too late for that) then frankly - why bother? All you've done is embarass yourself - harm your potential BRD buisness - and highlight your total lack of motorsport knowledge Doug

>What I am saying to you Dave, is this: When posts like yours that challenge >for proof of cheating....go unanswered, that fact does **not** prove that >cheating is not going on. Sometimes, the "proof" just hasn't been revealed >yet. This is not my opinion....this is a fact proven already in the history >of racing. I think a better challenge for you Tom is to find the "silent majority" who secretly agree with your views on hotlapping. They can all post here in support. Rafe Mc

>"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote > About four years ago, online racing on TEN was just hitting its stride and > there were nights when as many as 5,000 online drivers were racing in oneof > the many TEN-NASCAR race arenas. That is completely untrue. The NROS never had more then 8 arenas which could support at maximum 125 people (they were at 100 for almost the totality of the NROS's history). They were never full, in fact on the biggest night, Saturday night, the attendance was approximately 900 people. The whole rest of your story isn't really true also, it's much, MUCH different. I won't go into it because it's ancient history. I mean we're talking about bloody N2 here! Nascar friggin two! > either dropped out of online racing or changed > their account names and raced under other alias names. I have no clue if > any of those guys are still involved in online racing....I kind of doubtit, > though. Please tell us who those people were, I really would be interested Tom <G> I don't know of the top 100 simracers on the NROS who dropped out. Only a few I know have, and it's either for personal or medical reasons. You just trolled, it was bad trolling and you pissed off everybody here. It's better sometimes to shut up, istead of writing "but.. but.. but... but...." and try to back track the situation. You wrote that the fast GPLers cheat, which in fact is not true. They do not, but you still insist they do simply because "well it's been proved before that some cheated back like 4 years ago". -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

You weren't on TEN long enough to learn how to drive a sim car. You weren't any good at it Last thing we heard from you was that you were leaving TEN to " pave the way" in simracing for us. LMFAO. You couldn't drive. Period. All those freaking longwinded lectures to us about how they did it this way and that in the SCCA and when it came down to it, you couldn't back it up on a sim track. So you bailed on TEN soon after getting there. I was there. You were a backmarker like most of us. But boy did you talk yourself up. If there weren't any drivers around who raced on Hawaii and you thought you could get away with it you'd probably claim that you wrote the code. And we all know how well you do that.;) But for the real history: most of the folks running up front at Tally on TEN are still running up front elsewhere. You wouldn't remember their names because you most likely wrecked out of their races in the first few laps and were too embarrassed to save the results. LOL. As long as you continue to post your imaginations, I'll be there to set em straight. Gavel Your most ardent fan.

No idea about the facts here but WOW makes great reading and hey lads..ever thought of writing something for TV..and i'm serious..!! Pabst seems a VERY typical TV character and ymenard...LOL..nice one. Nice to see you have lost none of your <<BITE>> Douglas..!! Morgan(of Leicester)

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PWjF7.21847$[email hidden]...

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> Doug... > > I'm not sure where Mark Beckman made this claim, I haven't seen it. > > I assume you are referring to my post on 11/01/01? I thought it was an > obvious tongue-in-cheek joke following the news about the RT timing bug. > Apparently, many took it seriously...although I don't see how I could have > been more blatantly joking. It did give rise to an opportunity to discuss > the issues of hotlapping and whether it breeds clean racing among the new > drivers.......which you can read so I won't reiterate.

Well in that case - you're a common or garden TROLL. You should take a trip into VROC and see how much people love you there. You are the new Bin Laden in VROC. (You know VROC, where talented drivers race online and dont cheat. You should try it some time. But make sure you're not quite so shit first.) Amazingly you've managed to unite the whole of VROC. Without exception you've become hated, loathed, and laughed at. You've also offended a lot of people and your way of getting out of it all is "Oh, sorry, didnt you know I was trolling". Many believe that you were not infact 'trolling' and were genuine in your post (after all - why would a troll bother writing something so structured and in depth purely for the point of starting an argument). Whatever you're actual intent - you have infact damaged BRD sales (many VROC'ers have emailed BRD HQ to voice their disgust that a US importer of BRD gear could be so outspokenly offensive and wrong). You've tarnished yourself and shattered any respect most people had for you for a LONG time. Frankly - you're a complete Joke. It may be Funny, it's also very very tragic. Doug - but no apology has been forthcoming.

BRD are less than pleased with the situation, they have had a barrage of complaints about Tom, and yes I'm sorry but after his reply to my reaction I firmly believe that he is trying to worm his way out of a bad situation. Marc "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s4kub$11kk3g$[email hidden]...

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> > "Alan Coates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:xAjF7.12154$[email hidden]... > > I can understand your anger Doug. > > Some points I would like to make. > > > > On the + side: > > Some of the very high scoring GPL rankers have posted there replays and > > therefore have proven their ability and I admire their skill over a lap. > > > > but... > > > > On the - side: > > GPLRank is far too trusting with their rankings. Anyone can cheat with > their > > player.ini file. > > Not talking about GPLRank. Who cares who cheats and who doesnt in GPL

Rank > > I'm talking about RACING - wheel to wheel with the best doing 30 1:27's at > Monza in a row. > > As for Pabst - if your post WAS a joke (and I am not alone in thinkingthat > it wasnt and you're just trying to back down without losing face - it'sWAY > too late for that) then frankly - why bother? All you've done is embarass > yourself - harm your potential BRD buisness - and highlight your totallack > of motorsport knowledge > > Doug > > >

Geez. Can you be any more dramatic? Get some perspective on life. These are games. GAMES. As for Tom, it was extremely obvious that he was being sarcastic with his "GPL timing bug" comments. He was joking about his 1:33 times at Monza (he proved that). All he said was that obsessed hotlappers screw up a lot of online races. He's right. They ALWAYS have. Not EVERY hotlapper, but MANY of them wreck races due to their approach to a race. I say this after racing online for four and a half years now. It's an accepted fact for most people who have any online experience. As for the GPL hotlappers/racers. Well, when you play any racing game for as many hours as some of you have over a three year time span, you better be able to do searing laps while blindfolded. Some may be very talented (no doubt), but your not proving anything with a driving game you've played that much. David G Fisher "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<9s64j9$11oabq$[email hidden]>...

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> Well in that case - you're a common or garden TROLL. You should take a trip > into VROC and see how much people love you there. You are the new Bin Laden > in VROC. (You know VROC, where talented drivers race online and dont cheat. > You should try it some time. But make sure you're not quite so shit first.) > > Amazingly you've managed to unite the whole of VROC. Without exception > you've become hated, loathed, and laughed at. You've also offended a lot of > people and your way of getting out of it all is "Oh, sorry, didnt you know I > was trolling". > > Many believe that you were not infact 'trolling' and were genuine in your > post (after all - why would a troll bother writing something so structured > and in depth purely for the point of starting an argument). > > Whatever you're actual intent - you have infact damaged BRD sales (many > VROC'ers have emailed BRD HQ to voice their disgust that a US importer of > BRD gear could be so outspokenly offensive and wrong). You've tarnished > yourself and shattered any respect most people had for you for a LONG time. > > Frankly - you're a complete Joke. It may be Funny, it's also very very > tragic. > > Doug > > > > > > - but no apology has been forthcoming.

Gavel wrote: > Hiya Gavel, long time no see....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Geez. Can you be any more dramatic? Get some perspective on life. > These are games. > > GAMES. > > As for Tom, it was extremely obvious that he was being sarcastic with > his "GPL timing bug" comments. He was joking about his 1:33 times at > Monza (he proved that). > > All he said was that obsessed hotlappers screw up a lot of online > races. He's right. They ALWAYS have. Not EVERY hotlapper, but MANY of > them wreck races due to their approach to a race. I say this after > racing online for four and a half years now. It's an accepted fact for > most people who have any online experience.

There's hot lappers - and theres people who try and hot lap but are shit. Shit people will crash - hot lappers will not. Those who are shit are incaperble of hot lapping - because they are slow and thus incaperble of a lap that is 'hot'. Regardless of the rest of his post - comments about hot lappers are offensive to a great number of people. I was suprised to hear back from BRD that they have been (and I quote) "inundated with complaints, we are taking this most seriously and we will make a statement on this as soon as possible" Tom unfortuantely went beyond a joke and offended a lot of people. Thats the facts here. Doug

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > Geez. Can you be any more dramatic? Get some perspective on life. > These are games. No, you are stuck in your old world. This is the new reality. This is a community. This is real. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World... .

No, plenty of hot-lappers are sh*t: like the 1000 monkeys at 1000 typewriters who sooner or later by chance or Brownian movement type all the great works of Western man, sooner or later they cut a mistake-free lap and post it. Even if they can turn 100 laps of the Ring within a few tenths, that doesn't make them racers. I had one Alien outqualify me @ Nurburg by 15 seconds, but he couldn't make a decent start, and couldn't pass me for a whole lap, not even on those Elysian straights. I finally went off the road at Pflanzgarten trying to LET him by. Hot-lapping is kind of a specialty item, like body-piercing. "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9s73f1$11k54f$[email hidden]...

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> > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Geez. Can you be any more dramatic? Get some perspective on life. > > These are games. > > > > GAMES. > > > > As for Tom, it was extremely obvious that he was being sarcastic with > > his "GPL timing bug" comments. He was joking about his 1:33 times at > > Monza (he proved that). > > > > All he said was that obsessed hotlappers screw up a lot of online > > races. He's right. They ALWAYS have. Not EVERY hotlapper, but MANY of > > them wreck races due to their approach to a race. I say this after > > racing online for four and a half years now. It's an accepted fact for > > most people who have any online experience. > > There's hot lappers - and theres people who try and hot lap but are shit. > Shit people will crash - hot lappers will not. Those who are shit are > incaperble of hot lapping - because they are slow and thus incaperble of a > lap that is 'hot'. > > Regardless of the rest of his post - comments about hot lappers are > offensive to a great number of people. I was suprised to hear back from

BRD > that they have been (and I quote) "inundated with complaints, we aretaking > this most seriously and we will make a statement on this as soon as > possible" > > Tom unfortuantely went beyond a joke and offended a lot of people. Thatsthe > facts here. > > Doug > >

In article <xAjF7.12154$[email hidden]>, "Alan Coates" <[email hidden]> writes: >I've seen many who frequently do a fantastic qualifying lap only to crash >out early in the race. So at the end of the day I'm not bothered about >GPLRank and all the fast ones. I'll stick to consistency and continue >winning races against the speed freaks :) > >Oh my GPLRank is a lowly -24.98 That's "lowly"??? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

<snip> > No, you are stuck in your old world. This is the new reality. This is a > community. This is real. So I can walk around the car, touch it,smell the burning fuel,feel the wind in my face??? Real my ass... It's a freakin' game....pixels and polygon's.... thats it! You show me real and I will sit up and listen. For once and I hate to say it, I agree with DGF... get some perspective indeed...life's to short to waste away in front of a CRT playing games that are meant for kids.. "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dMIF7.11724$[email hidden]...

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> >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Geez. Can you be any more dramatic? Get some perspective on life. > > These are games. > > > No, you are stuck in your old world. This is the new reality. This is a > community. This is real. > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- May the Downforce be with you... > -- http://www.ymenard.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > . > >

Thats damn low...ly, I wish mine was that low...ly -- ChrisC F1 GPLRank +65.21 F2 GPLRank +157.28 EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <xAjF7.12154$[email hidden]>, "Alan Coates" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I've seen many who frequently do a fantastic qualifying lap only to crash > >out early in the race. So at the end of the day I'm not bothered about > >GPLRank and all the fast ones. I'll stick to consistency and continue > >winning races against the speed freaks :) > > > >Oh my GPLRank is a lowly -24.98 > > That's "lowly"??? > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>"Tierod" <[email hidden]> wrote > > No, you are stuck in your old world. This is the new reality. This isa > > community. This is real. > So I can walk around the car, touch it,smell the burning fuel,feel thewind > in my face??? I'm talking about this community. Did you actually read what I posted? > get some perspective indeed...life's to short to waste away in front of a > CRT playing games that are meant for kids.. LOL I love those "get a life" posts, they are always a riot. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

What Elysian straights are you talking about? The 'ring aint exactly abundent with straights, you can easily be stuck behind a quick driver for a fair while. Rafe Mc >whole lap, not even on those Elysian straights.

The 2-mi. straight before the Antonius bridge near the end of a lap, and the pit straight at the beginning of one. Race there much? "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > What Elysian straights are you talking about? The 'ring aint exactly > abundent with straights, you can easily be stuck behind a quick driver > for a fair while. > > Rafe Mc > > >whole lap, not even on those Elysian straights.

On 5 Nov 2001 12:30:34 -0800, [email hidden] (David G Fisher) wrote: >Geez. Can you be any more dramatic? Get some perspective on life. >These are games. > >GAMES. Isn't life a game aswell? >As for Tom, it was extremely obvious that he was being sarcastic with >his "GPL timing bug" comments. He was joking about his 1:33 times at >Monza (he proved that). >All he said was that obsessed hotlappers screw up a lot of online >races. He's right. Tom said more then that. He accused people being cheaters. If I said you're a criminal, and explained a day after it was a 'joke', then the harm is already done, some people will still label you as a criminal. >As for the GPL hotlappers/racers. Well, when you play any racing game >for as many hours as some of you have over a three year time span, you >better be able to do searing laps while blindfolded. Some may be very >talented (no doubt), but your not proving anything with a driving game >you've played that much. It took Michael Schumacher 20 years to become World Champion. Guess you're not impressed with his prestation.... Remco

Good to see you, as well Goy! :) Gavel "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Gavel wrote: > > > > Hiya Gavel, long time no see....:-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" > --Groucho Marx--

In article <q4RF7.17368$[email hidden]>, "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> writes: >The 2-mi. straight before the Antonius bridge near the end of a lap, and the >pit straight at the beginning of one. Race there much? Yeah, but you only get there about every 9 minutes...<g> You still have the rest of the lap. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <crKF7.5201$[email hidden]>, "Tierod" <[email hidden]> writes: >For once and I hate to say it, I agree with DGF... >get some perspective indeed...life's to short to waste away in front of a >CRT playing games that are meant for kids.. > Based on this statement, logically you don't play computer games(it would waste your time). If you don't play games, why are you here? Serious question. Besides, baseball players get paid MILLIONS of dollars to play a kids game... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Gavel wrote: > > Good to see you, as well Goy! :) I see you haven't lost any of your "diplomatic skills".....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

Hi Remco. Are you sure that we are not "a game" on something's computer too? If you say no, can you prove it? Not trying to be a wise guy. I actually have been "thinking"(?) along these lines for almost 15 years now. Just take the realism of a GPL sim after only 55 years of computers and try to imagine a "GPL" sim in 5500 years. Maybe those something's had millions of "years" to create sims! This "sim" would not be rated "G" I am quite sure. I wonder what res we are are their monitors? Why post this here? I am hoping that they are still playing GPL too, after all these eons, and they might reply! arcman Remco Moedt wrote:

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> > On 5 Nov 2001 12:30:34 -0800, [email hidden] (David G Fisher) wrote: > > >Geez. Can you be any more dramatic? Get some perspective on life. > >These are games. > > > >GAMES. > > Isn't life a game aswell? >

<snip> Remco

I'm thinking............ see a doctor, QUICK !! ;) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> Christopher G Rossie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hi Remco. Are you sure that we are not "a game" on something's computer > too? > If you say no, can you prove it? Not trying to be a wise guy. I actually > have > been "thinking"(?) along these lines for almost 15 years now. Just take > the realism > of a GPL sim after only 55 years of computers and try to imagine a "GPL" > sim in 5500 years. > Maybe those something's had millions of "years" to create sims! This > "sim" would not > be rated "G" I am quite sure. I wonder what res we are are their > monitors? > Why post this here? I am hoping that they are still playing GPL too, > after all these eons, > and they might reply! > > arcman

On 06 Nov 2001 20:12:38 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <q4RF7.17368$[email hidden]>, "Stephen Smith" ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>The 2-mi. straight before the Antonius bridge near the end of a lap, and the >>pit straight at the beginning of one. Race there much? > >Yeah, but you only get there about every 9 minutes...<g> You still have the >rest of the lap. > >Eldred

My point exactly. Rafe Mc

In article <[email hidden]>, Christopher G Rossie <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Hi Remco. Are you sure that we are not "a game" on something's computer >too? >If you say no, can you prove it? Not trying to be a wise guy. I actually >have >been "thinking"(?) along these lines for almost 15 years now. Just take >the realism >of a GPL sim after only 55 years of computers and try to imagine a "GPL" >sim in 5500 years. >Maybe those something's had millions of "years" to create sims! This >"sim" would not >be rated "G" I am quite sure. I wonder what res we are are their >monitors? >Why post this here? I am hoping that they are still playing GPL too, >after all these eons, >and they might reply!

Welcome to...The MATRIX.... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (EldredP) writes:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, Christopher G Rossie > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Hi Remco. Are you sure that we are not "a game" on something's computer > >too? > >If you say no, can you prove it? Not trying to be a wise guy. I actually > >have > >been "thinking"(?) along these lines for almost 15 years now. Just take > >the realism > >of a GPL sim after only 55 years of computers and try to imagine a "GPL" > >sim in 5500 years. > >Maybe those something's had millions of "years" to create sims! This > >"sim" would not > >be rated "G" I am quite sure. I wonder what res we are are their > >monitors? > >Why post this here? I am hoping that they are still playing GPL too, > >after all these eons, > >and they might reply! > > Welcome to...The MATRIX....

Or to go back to the original: Ren� Descartes was a drunken fart, "I drink, therefore I am." -- -asbjxrn

Hi EldredP. I got it from Levy's "Hackers" in 1984. Ed Fredkin, former MIT wiz had the original idea. Took 3 years to explode into my stranger "theory." The MATRIX got to the silver screen ahead of my screenplay -- I only got 117 of 120 scenes to go ;-) I can see it on the marquee: The MATRIX 23. EldredP wrote: <snip>

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> Welcome to...The MATRIX.... > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:56:43 -0500, Christopher G Rossie <[email hidden]> wrote: >Hi Remco. Are you sure that we are not "a game" on something's computer >too? >If you say no, can you prove it? Uh...if I say no, then I'm not sure.....that's kinda hard to prove....<g> Anyway, in the end it doesn't matter, since the World is what you see of it. Not that I want to start a theological discussion... My comment was just directed to David, since calling something a game is quite meaningless... Remco

No way, i have to disagree, hotlappers (as they seem to be defined here bt there gplrank) are better race drivers ... the coment about the 1000 monkeys relates more to the slow drivers producing good race as the fast ones. In SRM and MoG and in UKGPL the better more consistent racing comes from the top divisions, not the lower ones. And all these league have the top division full of drivers that here would be called hotlappers or insects. dan "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:E5JF7.7082$[email hidden]... > No, plenty of hot-lappers are sh*t: like the 1000 monkeys at 1000 > typewriters who sooner or later by chance or Brownian movement type allthe > great works of Western man, sooner or later they cut a mistake-free lapand > post it. Even if they can turn 100 laps of the Ring within a few tenths, > that doesn't make them racers. I had one Alien outqualify me @ Nurburg by > 15 seconds, but he couldn't make a decent start, and couldn't pass me fora > whole lap, not even on those Elysian straights. I finally went off theroad

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> at Pflanzgarten trying to LET him by. Hot-lapping is kind of a specialty > item, like body-piercing. > > "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9s73f1$11k54f$[email hidden]... > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Geez. Can you be any more dramatic? Get some perspective on life. > > > These are games. > > > > > > GAMES. > > > > > > As for Tom, it was extremely obvious that he was being sarcastic with > > > his "GPL timing bug" comments. He was joking about his 1:33 times at > > > Monza (he proved that). > > > > > > All he said was that obsessed hotlappers screw up a lot of online > > > races. He's right. They ALWAYS have. Not EVERY hotlapper, but MANY of > > > them wreck races due to their approach to a race. I say this after > > > racing online for four and a half years now. It's an accepted fact for > > > most people who have any online experience. > > > > There's hot lappers - and theres people who try and hot lap but are

shit. > > Shit people will crash - hot lappers will not. Those who are shit are > > incaperble of hot lapping - because they are slow and thus incaperble ofa

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> > lap that is 'hot'. > > > > Regardless of the rest of his post - comments about hot lappers are > > offensive to a great number of people. I was suprised to hear back from > BRD > > that they have been (and I quote) "inundated with complaints, we are > taking > > this most seriously and we will make a statement on this as soon as > > possible" > > > > Tom unfortuantely went beyond a joke and offended a lot of people. Thats > the > > facts here. > > > > Doug > > > > > >

I agree. Also not fair to ask someone to "prove a negative" -- maybe I can get a few more scenes out of the discussion though -- I need all the help I can get in that regard... arcman Remco Moedt wrote:

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> > On Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:56:43 -0500, Christopher G Rossie > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Hi Remco. Are you sure that we are not "a game" on something's computer > >too? > >If you say no, can you prove it? > > Uh...if I say no, then I'm not sure.....that's kinda hard to > prove....<g> Anyway, in the end it doesn't matter, since > the World is what you see of it. Not that I want to start a > theological discussion... > > My comment was just directed to David, since calling > something a game is quite meaningless... > > Remco