A post kind of like prove it or shut it...

I was in a N4 race the other day. Good clean field. Turned out to be a fun race. My point...it was a fixed set up race. The difference in lap times were kind of strange. Pole and the first few guys were almost two seconds per lap better than the rest of the field. If everyone is using the same set up why does it often happen like this? Guys were talking about how talented some of the guys were. OK..but from pit row they just blow on by. Is it they have better hardware thus making the cars quicker. where is the advantage then if there is any at all? This race turned out to be clean and fun but they are mysterious(fixed set ups) at times. DC

Dave, As you know, there are ways and ways to cheat (I have a marvellous replay of a 30,000-hp F1 car @ Le Mans; terminal velocity ca. 530 mph...just before the kink). And there are hugely divergent talents behind the wheel. I am prepared to believe there are honest guys who can maintain 190 mph thru the Masta kink. I just don't want to race with them. A couple of hints. Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live physically near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major trouble-spot in the century just past). And most seem to have spent a lot more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits. So they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers. Think abt. it. --Steve "David Ciemny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:s0uF7.3125$[email hidden]... > I was in a N4 race the other day. Good clean field. Turned out to be a fun > race. > > My point...it was a fixed set up race. The difference in lap times were > kind of strange. Pole and the first few guys were almost two seconds perlap > better than the rest of the field. If everyone is using the same set upwhy > does it often happen like this? Guys were talking about how talented someof > the guys were. OK..but from pit row they just blow on by. Is it they have > better hardware thus making the cars quicker. where is the advantage thenif > there is any at all? This race turned out to be clean and fun but they are > mysterious(fixed set ups) at times. > > DC > >

''Most of the cheaters I know'' whos this then? do tell "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WtvF7.3464$[email hidden]... > Dave, > > As you know, there are ways and ways to cheat (I have a marvellous replayof > a 30,000-hp F1 car @ Le Mans; terminal velocity ca. 530 mph...just before > the kink). And there are hugely divergent talents behind the wheel. I am > prepared to believe there are honest guys who can maintain 190 mph thruthe > Masta kink. I just don't want to race with them. > > A couple of hints. Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to livephysically

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> near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major > trouble-spot in the century just past). And most seem to have spent a lot > more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits. So > they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers. Think > abt. it. > > --Steve > > "David Ciemny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:s0uF7.3125$[email hidden]... > > I was in a N4 race the other day. Good clean field. Turned out to be a

fun

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> > race. > > > > My point...it was a fixed set up race. The difference in lap times were > > kind of strange. Pole and the first few guys were almost two seconds per > lap > > better than the rest of the field. If everyone is using the same set up > why > > does it often happen like this? Guys were talking about how talented

some > of > > the guys were. OK..but from pit row they just blow on by. Is it theyhave > > better hardware thus making the cars quicker. where is the advantagethen > if > > there is any at all? This race turned out to be clean and fun but theyare

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> > mysterious(fixed set ups) at times. > > > > DC > > > > > >

There are a few "tricks" to tuning fixed setups a little more to your liking. The one I use which I feel is 100% legal is playing with the liner setting in the controller setup. I found it pretty amazing just how much that could change my lap times , tighten or loosing up a setup. This just goes to show that there are so many variables involved that can cause differences in lap times. Controllers and hardware are two of the big ones. I'm not that familiar with the workings of N4, so I'll use DTR as an example because I know a little more on how it works. For example in DTR the physics updates are tied to the frames per second. So if you have a higher frame rate you'll get a better physic update rate. then there is the whole quality of connection thing. I have followed right on someone's bumper and had lap times reported 0.25-0.5 slower lap times. As for controllers one thing that I feel is a big plus is larger diameter steering wheel. I think this is one of the big pluses of the TSW over the more popular store bought wheels with those small 9-10" dia wheels. A TSW has a 13" dia wheel standard. Now if you have the same steering range say 270 degrees the large wheel will allow you more precise adjustment. For example a 10 " dia wheel has 30% less liner travel than a 13" dia wheel. MadDAWG

Not so easily in N4. Unless the "cheaters" game files match the servers _exactly_ , he's sol. I know people who can run faster in fixed setups and blow anybody off any track at any time, even if they're using open setups, and can guarantee they're not cheating(I'm one of those getting blown away fwiw :) Hardware can make a small difference, especially a big monitor, but just as in actual racing, some are better than others. -John Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WtvF7.3464$[email hidden]... > Dave, > > As you know, there are ways and ways to cheat (I have a marvellous replayof > a 30,000-hp F1 car @ Le Mans; terminal velocity ca. 530 mph...just before > the kink). And there are hugely divergent talents behind the wheel. I am > prepared to believe there are honest guys who can maintain 190 mph thruthe > Masta kink. I just don't want to race with them. > > A couple of hints. Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to livephysically

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> near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major > trouble-spot in the century just past). And most seem to have spent a lot > more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits. So > they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers. Think > abt. it. > > --Steve > > "David Ciemny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:s0uF7.3125$[email hidden]... > > I was in a N4 race the other day. Good clean field. Turned out to be a

fun

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> > race. > > > > My point...it was a fixed set up race. The difference in lap times were > > kind of strange. Pole and the first few guys were almost two seconds per > lap > > better than the rest of the field. If everyone is using the same set up > why > > does it often happen like this? Guys were talking about how talented

some > of > > the guys were. OK..but from pit row they just blow on by. Is it theyhave > > better hardware thus making the cars quicker. where is the advantagethen > if > > there is any at all? This race turned out to be clean and fun but theyare

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> > mysterious(fixed set ups) at times. > > > > DC > > > > > >

On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:20:06 GMT, "Stephen Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>A couple of hints. Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live physically >near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major >trouble-spot in the century just past). And most seem to have spent a lot >more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits. So >they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers. Think >abt. it. > >--Steve

Argh, stop the mysterious ramblings and give some details Steve! Who, how and when? Someone from a major trouble spot.. is Hussein cheating in N4 so he can at least win something?? Andre

Could it be somebody who doesn't get a chance to get out much anymore? someone whose holed up for the winter without very much else to do? Somebody with lots of cash to spend on hardware upgrades? dave henrie "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:20:06 GMT, "Stephen Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >A couple of hints. Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to livephysically > >near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major > >trouble-spot in the century just past). And most seem to have spent alot > >more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits.So > >they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers.Think

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> >abt. it. > > > >--Steve > > Argh, stop the mysterious ramblings and give some details Steve! Who, > how and when? Someone from a major trouble spot.. is Hussein cheating > in N4 so he can at least win something?? > > Andre

I think people are used to 2 or 3 day learning curves with driving sims. N4 is the first truly mainstream driving simulator. GPL is a simulator but it didn't reach as many as N4 has. My point is that the more difficult something is the bigger the gap between the best and the beginners. Whenever I lose something my gut tells me that someone stole it. I'm wrong 99% of the time though :) "David Ciemny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:s0uF7.3125$[email hidden]... > I was in a N4 race the other day. Good clean field. Turned out to be a fun > race. > > My point...it was a fixed set up race. The difference in lap times were > kind of strange. Pole and the first few guys were almost two seconds perlap > better than the rest of the field. If everyone is using the same set upwhy > does it often happen like this? Guys were talking about how talented someof > the guys were. OK..but from pit row they just blow on by. Is it they have > better hardware thus making the cars quicker. where is the advantage thenif > there is any at all? This race turned out to be clean and fun but they are > mysterious(fixed set ups) at times. > > DC > >

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]... > On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:20:06 GMT, "Stephen Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >A couple of hints. Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to livephysically > >near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major > >trouble-spot in the century just past). And most seem to have spent alot > >more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits.So > >they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers.Think

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> >abt. it. > > > >--Steve > > Argh, stop the mysterious ramblings and give some details Steve! Who, > how and when? Someone from a major trouble spot.. is Hussein cheating > in N4 so he can at least win something?? > > Andre

I was thinking more along the lines of Germany and perhaps the Oakland Colliseum? Perhaps this is a test to see how far back we think? ;-) Cheers, Jens

Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WtvF7.3464$[email hidden]... > Dave, > > As you know, there are ways and ways to cheat (I have a marvellous replay of > a 30,000-hp F1 car @ Le Mans; terminal velocity ca. 530 mph...just before I sincerely hope that's a wings-n-slicks modern F1... though I have a nasty feeling you may be talking about GPL :-O Please tell more! (GP2 used to be fun with 1760 bhp IIRC...) Jonny

Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote on 05 Nov 2001: <snip> > A couple of hints. Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live > physically near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think > of another major trouble-spot in the century just past).<snip> Er... by one calculation there were 165 wars or tyrannies in the 20th century: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/war-1900.htm "Major", though. Germany? The Balkans (twice)? Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? Ah, I know - it must have been the Falklands! -- Sceptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense -- Carl Sagan The GPL Scrapyard returns (slowly): http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

"David Buttery" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]... > Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote on 05 Nov 2001: > <snip> > "Major", though. Germany? The Balkans (twice)? Korea? Vietnam? Iraq? > Ah, I know - it must have been the Falklands! >All those bloody cheating sheep. Baaah!

What happened at the Oakland Coliseum? -- "Racing! - Science for the action minded." mark "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QHAF7.5287$[email hidden]... > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse > news:[email hidden]... > > On Mon, 05 Nov 2001 12:20:06 GMT, "Stephen Smith" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >A couple of hints. Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live > physically > > >near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major > > >trouble-spot in the century just past). And most seem to have spent a > lot > > >more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits. > So > > >they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers. > Think > > >abt. it. > > > > > >--Steve > > > > Argh, stop the mysterious ramblings and give some details Steve! Who, > > how and when? Someone from a major trouble spot.. is Hussein cheating > > in N4 so he can at least win something?? > > > > Andre > > I was thinking more along the lines of Germany and perhaps the Oakland > Colliseum? > Perhaps this is a test to see how far back we think? ;-) > > Cheers, > Jens > >

mark jeangerard <[email hidden]> wrote on 06 Nov 2001: > What happened at the Oakland Coliseum? It got given a bloody sponsored name - Network Associates Coliseum :-( -- Sceptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense -- Carl Sagan The GPL Scrapyard returns (slowly): http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

In article <3be6b84c$[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> writes: > Hardware can make a small difference, especially a big monitor, but just >as in actual racing, some are better than others. I've heard others say that the size of the monitor doesn't matter. <insert your own joke here> I wish I could afford a larger monitor so I could see for myself if it helps your driving. I think it *should*, because you can see the objects(cars/brake markers, etc.) larger and in a higher resolution... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Yep, I know of some great online racers using small monitors. I've also been told by some that when they went to a larger one, it really helped. For myself, I only have a "15 and would love a larger one if for no other reason that my aging eyes start to feel the effects after a bit on a small screen <G> Maybe one of these days. -John EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <3be6b84c$[email hidden]>, "John Pancoast" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > Hardware can make a small difference, especially a big monitor, butjust > >as in actual racing, some are better than others. > > I've heard others say that the size of the monitor doesn't matter. > <insert your own joke here> > I wish I could afford a larger monitor so I could see for myself if ithelps > your driving. I think it *should*, because you can see theobjects(cars/brake

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> markers, etc.) larger and in a higher resolution... > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Actually you can cheat in N4 using fixed setups. I've seen it. It made the car like an F1 car on the track. He could blow by me like I was sitting still, let off and let me pass him, and blow by me any time he wanted. I could be going into turn four at Michigan while he was exiting turn two and he could beat me to the s/f line. Supposedly Papy fixed it with the latest patch, but who knows. Having said all that I have joined races where I was two miles per hour faster than the whole field and I don't cheat. They just didn't have as much experience as I have. Anyway, I never worry about it. Do the best you can and if others cheat don't sweat it. You know you're not and that's all that really matters. It's all but impossible for Papy to make the code totally and completely cheat proof, and quite frankly I'd rather they spend the time on the other issues. Tom "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3be6b84c$[email hidden]... > Not so easily in N4. Unless the "cheaters" game files match the servers > _exactly_ , he's sol. I know people who can run faster in fixed setupsand

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> blow anybody off any track at any time, even if they're using open setups, > and can guarantee they're not cheating(I'm one of those getting blown away > fwiw :) > > Hardware can make a small difference, especially a big monitor, but just > as in actual racing, some are better than others. > > -John > > > Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:WtvF7.3464$[email hidden]... > > Dave, > > > > As you know, there are ways and ways to cheat (I have a marvellous

replay > of > > a 30,000-hp F1 car @ Le Mans; terminal velocity ca. 530 mph...justbefore > > the kink). And there are hugely divergent talents behind the wheel. Iam

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> > prepared to believe there are honest guys who can maintain 190 mph thru > the > > Masta kink. I just don't want to race with them. > > > > A couple of hints. Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live > physically > > near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of another major > > trouble-spot in the century just past). And most seem to have spent a

lot > > more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits.So > > they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers.Think

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> > abt. it. > > > > --Steve > > > > "David Ciemny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:s0uF7.3125$[email hidden]... > > > I was in a N4 race the other day. Good clean field. Turned out to be a > fun > > > race. > > > > > > My point...it was a fixed set up race. The difference in lap times

were > > > kind of strange. Pole and the first few guys were almost two secondsper > > lap > > > better than the rest of the field. If everyone is using the same setup

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> > why > > > does it often happen like this? Guys were talking about how talented > some > > of > > > the guys were. OK..but from pit row they just blow on by. Is it they > have > > > better hardware thus making the cars quicker. where is the advantage > then > > if > > > there is any at all? This race turned out to be clean and fun but they > are > > > mysterious(fixed set ups) at times. > > > > > > DC > > > > > > > > > > > >

That's true; I just meant open setups. -John Tom Oliver <tomol(removethis)@oz.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Actually you can cheat in N4 using fixed setups. I've seen it. It made the > car like an F1 car on the track. He could blow by me like I was sitting > still, let off and let me pass him, and blow by me any time he wanted. I > could be going into turn four at Michigan while he was exiting turn twoand > he could beat me to the s/f line. Supposedly Papy fixed it with the latest > patch, but who knows. > > Having said all that I have joined races where I was two miles per hour > faster than the whole field and I don't cheat. They just didn't have asmuch > experience as I have. > > Anyway, I never worry about it. Do the best you can and if others cheat > don't sweat it. You know you're not and that's all that really matters.It's > all but impossible for Papy to make the code totally and completely cheat > proof, and quite frankly I'd rather they spend the time on the otherissues. > > Tom > > "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3be6b84c$[email hidden]... > > Not so easily in N4. Unless the "cheaters" game files match theservers > > _exactly_ , he's sol. I know people who can run faster in fixed setups > and > > blow anybody off any track at any time, even if they're using opensetups, > > and can guarantee they're not cheating(I'm one of those getting blownaway > > fwiw :) > > > > Hardware can make a small difference, especially a big monitor, butjust

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> > as in actual racing, some are better than others. > > > > -John > > > > > > Stephen Smith <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:WtvF7.3464$[email hidden]... > > > Dave, > > > > > > As you know, there are ways and ways to cheat (I have a marvellous > replay > > of > > > a 30,000-hp F1 car @ Le Mans; terminal velocity ca. 530 mph...just > before > > > the kink). And there are hugely divergent talents behind the wheel.

I > am > > > prepared to believe there are honest guys who can maintain 190 mphthru > > the > > > Masta kink. I just don't want to race with them. > > > > > > A couple of hints. Most of the cheaters I know abt. seem to live > > physically > > > near each other (and not in caves in Afghanistan; think of anothermajor

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> > > trouble-spot in the century just past). And most seem to have spent a > lot > > > more time hacking code than practicing their chops on racing circuits. > So > > > they make great hot-lap 'artistes,' but not very consistent racers. > Think > > > abt. it. > > > > > > --Steve > > > > > > "David Ciemny" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:s0uF7.3125$[email hidden]... > > > > I was in a N4 race the other day. Good clean field. Turned out to be

a

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> > fun > > > > race. > > > > > > > > My point...it was a fixed set up race. The difference in lap times > were > > > > kind of strange. Pole and the first few guys were almost two seconds > per > > > lap > > > > better than the rest of the field. If everyone is using the same set > up > > > why > > > > does it often happen like this? Guys were talking about how talented > > some > > > of > > > > the guys were. OK..but from pit row they just blow on by. Is it they > > have > > > > better hardware thus making the cars quicker. where is the advantage > > then > > > if > > > > there is any at all? This race turned out to be clean and fun but

they

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> > are > > > > mysterious(fixed set ups) at times. > > > > > > > > DC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >