Logo Momo Wheel Spiking - Possible solution?

I have JUST stumbled across a way to remove the spiky oscillations I was getting around the centre of the wheel in GPL. In the core.ini I set - force_feedback_latency = 0.000000 And all the spiking around the centre disappeared. Now to see if/when increasing the value causes them to return. I hope this helps Gerry and anyone else that was having this problem, but I only just found this, and don't even know if the spiking around the centre I was getting is the same as yours. And I havent turned off the PC yet, so maybe they'll return tomorrow eh? Lol SpeedFreek.

Have you tried the new patch from the Wingman site? It goes a long way towards decreasing the spiking in GPL. -- don ------------------------------------------------------- BAPOM Alternative Program Covers for GPL http://www.trilon.com/bapom/ "SpeedFreek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9scj17$12fdbp$[email hidden]... > I have JUST stumbled across a way to remove the spiky oscillations I was > getting around the centre of the wheel in GPL. In the core.ini I set - > > force_feedback_latency = 0.000000 > > And all the spiking around the centre disappeared. Now to see if/when > increasing the value causes them to return. > > I hope this helps Gerry and anyone else that was having this problem, but I > only just found this, and don't even know if the spiking around the centre I > was getting is the same as yours. And I havent turned off the PC yet, so > maybe they'll return tomorrow eh? > > Lol SpeedFreek. > >

My prop with my Momo is that wheel not center right turning right all the time. -Jani- "don hodgdon" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9sclii$qvu$[email hidden]...

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> Have you tried the new patch from the Wingman site? It goes a long way > towards decreasing the spiking in GPL. > > > -- > don > ------------------------------------------------------- > BAPOM > Alternative Program Covers for GPL > http://www.trilon.com/bapom/ > > > "SpeedFreek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9scj17$12fdbp$[email hidden]... > > I have JUST stumbled across a way to remove the spiky oscillations I was > > getting around the centre of the wheel in GPL. In the core.ini I set - > > > > force_feedback_latency = 0.000000 > > > > And all the spiking around the centre disappeared. Now to see if/when > > increasing the value causes them to return. > > > > I hope this helps Gerry and anyone else that was having this problem,

but > I > > only just found this, and don't even know if the spiking around thecentre

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> I > > was getting is the same as yours. And I havent turned off the PC yet, so > > maybe they'll return tomorrow eh? > > > > Lol SpeedFreek. > > > > > >

Jep, tryed it, but my wheel is not centered even Windows, when wheel normally retuns to centre position my returns a little right position ; - ( -Jani- "-Ger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:30:17 +0200, "Kankkis" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >My prop with my Momo is that wheel not center right turning right all the > >time. > > > >-Jani- > > In the Wingman profiler, try setting the steering deadzone to "1" > instead of "0". Do this for all the games that are pulling to the > right. I found this bit of info at www.wingmanteam.com and it solved > the problem of my wheel pulling to the right. It happens in games > that rely on windows calibration (Rally Trophy, Rally Masters, Viper > Racing etc.). > > -Ger

I cannot locate in the Wingman profiler V4.11 beta patch installed where to change the deadzone. I am obviously missing some screen somewhere. Help Thanks Brad "-Ger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:30:17 +0200, "Kankkis" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >My prop with my Momo is that wheel not center right turning right all the > >time. > > > >-Jani- > > In the Wingman profiler, try setting the steering deadzone to "1" > instead of "0". Do this for all the games that are pulling to the > right. I found this bit of info at www.wingmanteam.com and it solved > the problem of my wheel pulling to the right. It happens in games > that rely on windows calibration (Rally Trophy, Rally Masters, Viper > Racing etc.). > > -Ger

That works for all wheels. Really loose explaination: "Sometimes when GPL is pre-calculating the forces it may be wrong and the new calculation causes the spike." SpeedFreek wrote:

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> > I have JUST stumbled across a way to remove the spiky oscillations I was > getting around the centre of the wheel in GPL. In the core.ini I set - > > force_feedback_latency = 0.000000 > > And all the spiking around the centre disappeared. Now to see if/when > increasing the value causes them to return. > > I hope this helps Gerry and anyone else that was having this problem, but I > only just found this, and don't even know if the spiking around the centre I > was getting is the same as yours. And I havent turned off the PC yet, so > maybe they'll return tomorrow eh? > > Lol SpeedFreek.

-- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run Sims) (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

"Kankkis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9sdjik$9rf$[email hidden]... > Jep, tryed it, but my wheel is not centered even Windows, when wheel > normally retuns to centre position my returns a little right position ; -( > > -Jani- Did you try the clrcalib utitility from www.wingmanteam.com? Bart Westra

It works but unfortunately with latency set to 0 you will never be feeling the forces at the correct time. This not only makes it nearly impossible to use the wheel to tell when you are on the edge of the traction circle, it also makes it more difficult to recover from a spin since the forces can get 180 degrees out of phase with your corrections. "Jason Monds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> That works for all wheels. Really loose explaination: "Sometimes when > GPL is pre-calculating the forces it may be wrong and the new > calculation causes the spike." > > SpeedFreek wrote: > > > > I have JUST stumbled across a way to remove the spiky oscillations I

was > > getting around the centre of the wheel in GPL. In the core.ini Iset - > > > > force_feedback_latency = 0.000000 > > > > And all the spiking around the centre disappeared. Now to seeif/when > > increasing the value causes them to return. > > > > I hope this helps Gerry and anyone else that was having thisproblem, but I > > only just found this, and don't even know if the spiking around thecentre I > > was getting is the same as yours. And I havent turned off the PCyet, so

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> > maybe they'll return tomorrow eh? > > > > Lol SpeedFreek. > > -- > Jason Monds > http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) > http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run

Sims) > (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> writes: > It works but unfortunately with latency set to 0 you will never be > feeling the forces at the correct time. This not only makes it nearly > impossible to use the wheel to tell when you are on the edge of the > traction circle, it also makes it more difficult to recover from a spin > since the forces can get 180 degrees out of phase with your corrections. This very much depends on how big the delay is to begin with. And even when the delay is known (it would be _very_ interresting to see some hard figures on this), the game can only predict forces from known state, so the prediction is never able to compute exactly the correct forces anyway. I have always used very small delay values (less than 50 ms) since a to large value will be just as bad as a small one regarding getting the forces 'on time' and on top of that it will add those artifacts resulting from the prediction being wrong. About the MOMO wheel and GPL, I have noted three kinds bad forces: 1/ the good old 'bad predictions': nothing to do with the MOMO, fixed by reducing delay in core.ini (don't bother tweaking it into the microseconds, we are talking about delay compensation in a simulation with a ~3 millisecond time step here, I doubt any value less than that is ever possible to distinguish from a plain 0.0 value) 2/ severe spiking when moving the wheel: fixed by the beta drivers 2/ constant weak spiking/oscillations: fixed by reducing damping to 50% or less in the game controller setups (the damping force seems to be sensitive for noise in the potentiometer readings) _ Mats Lofkvist GPLrank -10 and proud of it, Tom ;-) [email hidden]

Well my wheel may have been a bad example. As I have posted elsewhere, I'm getting rid of it. But the thing I think is critical for setting latency is by how the car handles, not by running over curbs as some people recommend. If a person bought an FF wheel for GPL I would think they most likely bought it for the purpose of being able to feel the aligning torque of the front tires. That's what gives you useful feedback on the handling of the car. As such you should set the latency so that you are feeling the aligning torque timed correctly. Aligning torque has nothing to do with hitting bumps. As it says in the GPL readme file, the correct way to set the latency is to weave back and forth going down a straight, and increase the latency until the torque on the wheel is in phase with the wheel motions. That's why they ended up with 85 ms as the default, based on the MSFF wheel. I had to use 100 ms with my POS LWFFGP. I have seen LWFF users set it as high as 125 ms using a similar method. And yes that much correction does cause other problems, that's an unfortunate weakness of the way Papy does it. You can make that same behavior happen in N4 by using similar FF settings and driving one of the road courses with the "<fast>" setup. MGI figured out a way around this in NASCAR Heat. They use a centering spring at zero steering angle, and use the aligning torque model at non-zero angles, with the two blended together linearly in between. Unfortunately that just means more variables to tweak, but it's not bad if you get it set up right. "Mats Lofkvist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > It works but unfortunately with latency set to 0 you will never be > > feeling the forces at the correct time. This not only makes itnearly > > impossible to use the wheel to tell when you are on the edge of the > > traction circle, it also makes it more difficult to recover from aspin > > since the forces can get 180 degrees out of phase with yourcorrections.

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> > This very much depends on how big the delay is to begin with. > And even when the delay is known (it would be _very_ interresting > to see some hard figures on this), the game can only predict > forces from known state, so the prediction is never able to > compute exactly the correct forces anyway. > > I have always used very small delay values (less than 50 ms) since > a to large value will be just as bad as a small one regarding > getting the forces 'on time' and on top of that it will add > those artifacts resulting from the prediction being wrong. > > About the MOMO wheel and GPL, I have noted three kinds bad forces: > > 1/ the good old 'bad predictions': nothing to do with the MOMO, > fixed by reducing delay in core.ini (don't bother tweaking it > into the microseconds, we are talking about delay compensation > in a simulation with a ~3 millisecond time step here, I doubt > any value less than that is ever possible to distinguish from > a plain 0.0 value) > > 2/ severe spiking when moving the wheel: fixed by the beta drivers > > 2/ constant weak spiking/oscillations: fixed by reducing damping > to 50% or less in the game controller setups (the damping force > seems to be sensitive for noise in the potentiometer readings) > > _ > Mats Lofkvist GPLrank -10 and proud of it, Tom ;-) > [email hidden]

Yes, I know that a latency setting of 0 causes other problems but I was just pointing out that the spiking around the centre of the MOMO wheel goes away when you set it to 0. So its the latency value that is causing the spikes. I have increased my latency setting to 0.001 and the spikes have NOT returned. :o) My current settings are In Game controllers.. Overall 100% Spring 0% Damper 20% And in core.ini.. force_feedback_damping = 5.00000 force_feedback_latency = 0.001 max_steering_torque = 225.000000 Still some tweaking to do, as the wheel is a little hard to turn lock to lock when correcting a spin, but its feeling great!! Maybe I need to reduce the damping further in Game Controllers? Lol SpeedFreek.

I didn't read your previous posts, but anyway, latency on that settings is too small. Try 0.02. "SpeedFreek" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9sgk62$13b8ka$[email hidden]... > Yes, I know that a latency setting of 0 causes other problems but I wasjust > pointing out that the spiking around the centre of the MOMO wheel goesaway > when you set it to 0. So its the latency value that is causing the spikes.I > have increased my latency setting to 0.001 and the spikes have NOTreturned.

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> :o) > > My current settings are > > In Game controllers.. > Overall 100% > Spring 0% > Damper 20% > > And in core.ini.. > force_feedback_damping = 5.00000 > force_feedback_latency = 0.001 > max_steering_torque = 225.000000 > > Still some tweaking to do, as the wheel is a little hard to turn lock to > lock when correcting a spin, but its feeling great!! Maybe I need to

reduce > the damping further in Game Controllers? > > Lol SpeedFreek. > >

You need to install the beta patch. It's not perfect, but they are getting closer. Should get better as they tweak the patch more... -Larry "Kankkis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9sdjik$9rf$[email hidden]... > Jep, tryed it, but my wheel is not centered even Windows, when wheel > normally retuns to centre position my returns a little right position ; -(

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> > -Jani- > > "-Ger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:30:17 +0200, "Kankkis" <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >My prop with my Momo is that wheel not center right turning right all

the

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> > >time. > > > > > >-Jani- > > > > In the Wingman profiler, try setting the steering deadzone to "1" > > instead of "0". Do this for all the games that are pulling to the > > right. I found this bit of info at www.wingmanteam.com and it solved > > the problem of my wheel pulling to the right. It happens in games > > that rely on windows calibration (Rally Trophy, Rally Masters, Viper > > Racing etc.). > > > > -Ger > >