Anyone here running Radeon 8500?

I'm looking at upgrading my GF2 to either a Geforce3 Ti 200 or an ATI R8500 this week (maybe). I'm interested in the 8500 because it has more features and better image quality (although both are nice) than the GF3 cards. It also looks like that when you turn on features like FSAA and such the R8500 is a better performer than the GD3. At least that's how it looks to me from the review at DigitLife. But, how stable is this card in your racing sims and any other games you might have? My GF2 using the 12.90 drivers has no issues with any games I own and has been rock solid for me. Can I expect the same from an 8500 or am I asking for trouble if I buy this card? -- Steve

I'd like to know, too...

"STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Zt8I7.2184$[email hidden]... > I'm looking at upgrading my GF2 to either a Geforce3 Ti 200 or an ATIR8500 > this week (maybe). I'm interested in the 8500 because it has more features > and better image quality (although both are nice) than the GF3 cards. It > also looks like that when you turn on features like FSAA and such theR8500 > is a better performer than the GD3. At least that's how it looks to mefrom > the review at DigitLife. But, how stable is this card in your racing sims > and any other games you might have? My GF2 using the 12.90 drivers has no > issues with any games I own and has been rock solid for me. Can I expectthe > same from an 8500 or am I asking for trouble if I buy this card? > > -- > Steve > I have had the 8500 for about 3 weeks now. All my racing sims run great f1 2001, GPL, Nascar 4, CMR 2. The drivers for the 8500 are not all the way up to speed yet but they are getting there. I posted a thread http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~hg/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25940 when I first picked up the card. So far I am very happy with the card, the only games I have had problems with are: NHL 2002 (shadows don't appear correct) Need for speed porshe unleashed (menus don't show up) All other games I have played work with no problems. There are new drivers due out some time this month that should solve those problems and also increase performance.

to Murchman: thanks! Are you running Win98, XP, both? "Murchman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9srdng$14rf3l$[email hidden]... > "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Zt8I7.2184$[email hidden]... > > I'm looking at upgrading my GF2 to either a Geforce3 Ti 200 or an ATI > R8500 > > this week (maybe). I'm interested in the 8500 because it has morefeatures > > and better image quality (although both are nice) than the GF3 cards. It > > also looks like that when you turn on features like FSAA and such the > R8500 > > is a better performer than the GD3. At least that's how it looks to me > from > > the review at DigitLife. But, how stable is this card in your racingsims > > and any other games you might have? My GF2 using the 12.90 drivers hasno

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> > issues with any games I own and has been rock solid for me. Can I expect > the > > same from an 8500 or am I asking for trouble if I buy this card? > > > > -- > > Steve > > > > I have had the 8500 for about 3 weeks now. All my racing sims run great f1 > 2001, GPL, Nascar 4, CMR 2. The drivers for the 8500 are not all the way

up

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> to speed yet but they are getting there. I posted a thread > http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~hg/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25940 > when I first picked up the card. > > So far I am very happy with the card, the only games I have had problems > with are: > > NHL 2002 (shadows don't appear correct) > Need for speed porshe unleashed (menus don't show up) > > All other games I have played work with no problems. There are new drivers > due out some time this month that should solve those problems and also > increase performance. > >

Hi Ger, thanks for that info!! Achim

I ran it on Windows ME for 2 weeks then made the switch to XP pro after that. the ME drivers were a little faster, hopefully they will fix that in the new drivers. "Iju" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9srhdk$k4e$[email hidden]...

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> to Murchman: thanks! Are you running Win98, XP, both? > > > "Murchman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9srdng$14rf3l$[email hidden]... > > "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Zt8I7.2184$[email hidden]... > > > I'm looking at upgrading my GF2 to either a Geforce3 Ti 200 or an ATI > > R8500 > > > this week (maybe). I'm interested in the 8500 because it has more > features > > > and better image quality (although both are nice) than the GF3 cards.

It

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> > > also looks like that when you turn on features like FSAA and such the > > R8500 > > > is a better performer than the GD3. At least that's how it looks to me > > from > > > the review at DigitLife. But, how stable is this card in your racing > sims > > > and any other games you might have? My GF2 using the 12.90 drivers has > no > > > issues with any games I own and has been rock solid for me. Can I

expect

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> > the > > > same from an 8500 or am I asking for trouble if I buy this card? > > > > > > -- > > > Steve > > > > > > > I have had the 8500 for about 3 weeks now. All my racing sims run great

f1

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> > 2001, GPL, Nascar 4, CMR 2. The drivers for the 8500 are not all the way > up > > to speed yet but they are getting there. I posted a thread > > http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~hg/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25940 > > when I first picked up the card. > > > > So far I am very happy with the card, the only games I have had problems > > with are: > > > > NHL 2002 (shadows don't appear correct) > > Need for speed porshe unleashed (menus don't show up) > > > > All other games I have played work with no problems. There are new

drivers > > due out some time this month that should solve those problems and also > > increase performance. > > > > > >

The only problem is, nVidia will be on the GeForce 4 Ti900 before ATI gets the drivers right for the Radeon 8500 :( -Larry "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Zt8I7.2184$[email hidden]... > I'm looking at upgrading my GF2 to either a Geforce3 Ti 200 or an ATIR8500 > this week (maybe). I'm interested in the 8500 because it has more features > and better image quality (although both are nice) than the GF3 cards. It > also looks like that when you turn on features like FSAA and such theR8500 > is a better performer than the GD3. At least that's how it looks to mefrom > the review at DigitLife. But, how stable is this card in your racing sims > and any other games you might have? My GF2 using the 12.90 drivers has no > issues with any games I own and has been rock solid for me. Can I expectthe > same from an 8500 or am I asking for trouble if I buy this card? > > -- > Steve > >

Yeah and it will still cost $350 vs the $250 for the ATI cards "Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:i2eI7.64860$[email hidden]...

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> The only problem is, nVidia will be on the GeForce 4 Ti900 before ATI gets > the drivers right for the Radeon 8500 :( > > -Larry > > "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Zt8I7.2184$[email hidden]... > > I'm looking at upgrading my GF2 to either a Geforce3 Ti 200 or an ATI > R8500 > > this week (maybe). I'm interested in the 8500 because it has more

features > > and better image quality (although both are nice) than the GF3 cards. It > > also looks like that when you turn on features like FSAA and such the > R8500 > > is a better performer than the GD3. At least that's how it looks to me > from > > the review at DigitLife. But, how stable is this card in your racingsims > > and any other games you might have? My GF2 using the 12.90 drivers hasno

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> > issues with any games I own and has been rock solid for me. Can I expect > the > > same from an 8500 or am I asking for trouble if I buy this card? > > > > -- > > Steve > > > > > >

I just got an oem 8500 (328 $CDN). Installed it Monday as replacemnt for a Radeon LE. Also installed Dx8.1 at same time just to confuse the issue. So far pretty good results, useing the latest official drivers from the ATI site. Read on http://www.rage3d.com/ that the new smoothvision drivers are due for release tomorrow (wednesday). Graphics are significantly improved over the LE (which means that even I can spot the difference). I did a quick run through of most of the games on my hard drive but did not attempt any tweaking of them for the moment. No problems with: GPL : just gets better with every upgrade :) N4 NH R2CH Rally trophy Demo B-17-II XTension Warbirds3 Aces High 1.08 WW2OL 1.31 Some oddities with MSFS2002: Flyable OK but sometimes the building or terrain tiles will momentarily flash sky blue. Will fiddle a bit here since FS2K has *lots* of graphics adjustments and perhaps settings that were OK for the LE aren't so good for the 8500 NFS:PU; unplayable at the moment with screwed up fonts and all sorts of artefacts and lines in it. I seem to recall a site that had some hints on what to adjust for this but can't remember where it is at the moment David "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Zt8I7.2184$[email hidden]... > I'm looking at upgrading my GF2 to either a Geforce3 Ti 200 or an ATIR8500 > this week (maybe). I'm interested in the 8500 because it has more features > and better image quality (although both are nice) than the GF3 cards. It > also looks like that when you turn on features like FSAA and such theR8500 > is a better performer than the GD3. At least that's how it looks to mefrom > the review at DigitLife. But, how stable is this card in your racing sims > and any other games you might have? My GF2 using the 12.90 drivers has no > issues with any games I own and has been rock solid for me. Can I expectthe > same from an 8500 or am I asking for trouble if I buy this card? > > -- > Steve > >

"Murchman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9srdng$14rf3l$[email hidden]... > I have had the 8500 for about 3 weeks now. All my racing sims run great f1 > 2001, GPL, Nascar 4, CMR 2. The drivers for the 8500 are not all the wayup

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> to speed yet but they are getting there. I posted a thread > http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~hg/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25940 > when I first picked up the card. > > So far I am very happy with the card, the only games I have had problems > with are: > > NHL 2002 (shadows don't appear correct) > Need for speed porshe unleashed (menus don't show up) > > All other games I have played work with no problems. There are new drivers > due out some time this month that should solve those problems and also > increase performance.

Yea, it's the driver issue that has made my decision for me. Having experience with Nvidia cards and knowing the drivers are good I have bought the GF3 Ti 200 instead. I play lot's of various types of games so to ensure compatibility I figured this was the smartest way for me to go at this point in time. Maybe things will change for the R8500 driver issues down the road and I will consider again getting one. Thx.

"Murchman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9srpud$157hm8$[email hidden]... > I ran it on Windows ME for 2 weeks then made the switch to XP pro after > that. the ME drivers were a little faster, hopefully they will fix that in > the new drivers. Yes, hopefully for you. I see the 8500 drivers don't perform so great under XP for some reason. I'm running XP too.

"-Ger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 07:37:08 -0500, "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote: >ATI has yet to release drivers that implement > Smoothvision, There are beta drivers available that enable Smoothvision. Get them here. http://www.rage3d.com/files/drivers/radeonbeta.shtml#7199

"-Ger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > UT I read that the 8500 only gets 40fps in UT compared to 70fps on a GF3 on the same machine. Not good.

"Larry" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:i2eI7.64860$[email hidden]... > The only problem is, nVidia will be on the GeForce 4 Ti900 before ATI gets > the drivers right for the Radeon 8500 :( > > -Larry Yes, probably. That's why I have gone with the GF3 Ti 200 until the GF4 is available.

"David Erb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QZjI7.51094$[email hidden]... > I just got an oem 8500 (328 $CDN). Installed it Monday as replacemnt for a > Radeon LE. Also installed Dx8.1 at same time just to confuse the issue. So > far pretty good results, useing the latest official drivers from the ATI > site. Read on http://www.rage3d.com/ that the new smoothvision drivers are > due for release tomorrow (wednesday). Graphics are significantly improved > over the LE (which means that even I can spot the difference). I did aquick

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> run through of most of the games on my hard drive but did not attempt any > tweaking of them for the moment. > No problems with: > GPL : just gets better with every upgrade :) > N4 > NH > R2CH > Rally trophy Demo > B-17-II > XTension > Warbirds3 > Aces High 1.08 > WW2OL 1.31 > > Some oddities with > MSFS2002: Flyable OK but sometimes the building or terrain tiles will > momentarily flash sky blue. Will fiddle a bit here since FS2K has *lots*

of > graphics adjustments and perhaps settings that were OK for the LE aren'tso > good for the 8500 > NFS:PU; unplayable at the moment with screwed up fonts and all sorts of > artefacts and lines in it. I seem to recall a site that had some hints on > what to adjust for this but can't remember where it is at the moment > > David OK, thx for the input. I've decided to stick with the tried and true GF3. :-) It all came down to drivers, otherwise it would have been the R8500.

"STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:N2wI7.2321$[email hidden]... > > "David Erb" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:QZjI7.51094$[email hidden]... > > I just got an oem 8500 (328 $CDN). Installed it Monday as replacemnt fora > > Radeon LE. Also installed Dx8.1 at same time just to confuse the issue.So > > far pretty good results, useing the latest official drivers from the ATI > > site. Read on http://www.rage3d.com/ that the new smoothvision driversare > > due for release tomorrow (wednesday). Graphics are significantlyimproved > > over the LE (which means that even I can spot the difference). I did a > quick > > run through of most of the games on my hard drive but did not attemptany

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> > tweaking of them for the moment. > > No problems with: > > GPL : just gets better with every upgrade :) > > N4 > > NH > > R2CH > > Rally trophy Demo > > B-17-II > > XTension > > Warbirds3 > > Aces High 1.08 > > WW2OL 1.31 > > > > Some oddities with > > MSFS2002: Flyable OK but sometimes the building or terrain tiles will > > momentarily flash sky blue. Will fiddle a bit here since FS2K has *lots* > of > > graphics adjustments and perhaps settings that were OK for the LE aren't > so > > good for the 8500 > > NFS:PU; unplayable at the moment with screwed up fonts and all sorts of > > artefacts and lines in it. I seem to recall a site that had some hints

on

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> > what to adjust for this but can't remember where it is at the moment > > > > David > > OK, thx for the input. I've decided to stick with the tried and true GF3. > :-) > It all came down to drivers, otherwise it would have been the R8500. >

Well for me it was also about the drivers too. Right now F1 2001 has me playing it for a couple of hours a night. The GF3 can not run this title right, and if it can you have to be a driver wizard to figure out which ones work best. The 8500 on the other hand runs the game perfect with no problems at all. So I chose the card that worked best for the game I play the most. Murchman

"Murchman" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> > Well for me it was also about the drivers too. Right now F1 2001 has me > playing it for a couple of hours a night. The GF3 can not run this title > right, and if it can you have to be a driver wizard to figure out which ones > work best. > > The 8500 on the other hand runs the game perfect with no problems at all. So > I chose the card that worked best for the game I play the most.

Have you tried the new Smoothvision drivers released today ? How's the performance (and looks) in GPL, F1 2001 and N4 now ? -- Olav K. Malmin, relly considering a R8500 to releave the V5 remove .spam when replying

"Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Murchman" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > Well for me it was also about the drivers too. Right now F1 2001 has me > > playing it for a couple of hours a night. The GF3 can not run this title > > right, and if it can you have to be a driver wizard to figure out which

ones > > work best. > > > > The 8500 on the other hand runs the game perfect with no problems atall. So

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> > I chose the card that worked best for the game I play the most. > > Have you tried the new Smoothvision drivers released today ? How's the > performance (and looks) in GPL, F1 2001 and N4 now ? > > -- > Olav K. Malmin, relly considering a R8500 to releave the V5 > remove .spam when replying

Ran some test with it last night it does works now, it's not as good as the V5 FSAA but it is better then any other one out there. It doesn't completely remove those damn jaggies but it does a decent job without adding blurring or taking a big performance hit. As a matter of fact I only lost 1 fps in F1 2001 with 4xfsaa at 1280x1024 16bit and everything on full.

"STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bTvI7.2316$[email hidden]... > > "Murchman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9srdng$14rf3l$[email hidden]... > > I have had the 8500 for about 3 weeks now. All my racing sims run greatf1

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> > 2001, GPL, Nascar 4, CMR 2. The drivers for the 8500 are not all the way > up > > to speed yet but they are getting there. I posted a thread > > http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~hg/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=25940 > > when I first picked up the card. > > > > So far I am very happy with the card, the only games I have had problems > > with are: > > > > NHL 2002 (shadows don't appear correct) > > Need for speed porshe unleashed (menus don't show up) > > > > All other games I have played work with no problems. There are new

drivers > > due out some time this month that should solve those problems and also > > increase performance. > > Yea, it's the driver issue that has made my decision for me. Having > experience with Nvidia cards and knowing the drivers are good(???) I have bought > the GF3 Ti 200 instead. > I play lot's of various types of games so to ensure compatibility Ifigured > this was the smartest way for me to go at this point in time. Maybe things > will change for the R8500 driver issues down the road and I will consider > again getting one. Thx. > >

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CGyI7.26349$[email hidden]... > (???) Do you currently own a Nvidia card? If you did then you wouldn't post the above.

so which ones are the working good stable drivers? I mean which ones can I install, and forget...having compatiblity with F12001 AND older sims AND current shooters? And you are very right...I currently don't have a Nvidia product...although there is one in the house.... dave henrie "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VIFI7.2350$[email hidden]...

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> > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:CGyI7.26349$[email hidden]... > > (???) > > Do you currently own a Nvidia card? If you did then you wouldn't post the > above. > >

Dave Henrie wrote: > > so which ones are the working good stable drivers? 1.04.00 ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:A3KI7.31150$[email hidden]... > so which ones are the working good stable drivers? I mean which onescan > I install, and forget...having compatiblity with F12001 AND older sims AND > current shooters? And you are very right...I currently don't have a > Nvidia product...although there is one in the house.... > dave henrie There are many versions that are perfectly stable. Read any review on current GF3 cards and/or Radeon 8500. Everyone mentions the poor state of the Radeon drivers and many mention the good quality of the Nvidia drivers. If you want the problem with no cars in F12001 and then use 12.90 drivers. I had no problems in any other games either. Anyway, the problem is the game and not the drivers. I'm using a GF3 Ti 200 now and can't use the 12.90 drivers anymore because those drivers don't recognize GF3 Ti 200 because they were released before that card was availalable. So I'm back to the problem with no car in the mirriors in F12001, but I expect EA to fix it and not Nvidia. If the R8500 had good drivers I would have bought one instead of the GF3 Ti 200, I didn't base my purchase on brand loyalty, but rather which card was going to work the best.

If it was the games fault how come all other video cards run it just fine and going back driver releases on Nvidia products fixes the problem? murchman "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%SQI7.2415$[email hidden]... > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:A3KI7.31150$[email hidden]... > > so which ones are the working good stable drivers? I mean which ones > can > > I install, and forget...having compatiblity with F12001 AND older simsAND

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> > current shooters? And you are very right...I currently don't have a > > Nvidia product...although there is one in the house.... > > dave henrie > > There are many versions that are perfectly stable. Read any review on > current GF3 cards and/or Radeon 8500. Everyone mentions the poor state of > the Radeon drivers and many mention the good quality of the Nvidia

drivers. > If you want the problem with no cars in F12001 and then use 12.90drivers. > I had no problems in any other games either. Anyway, the problem is thegame > and not the drivers. I'm using a GF3 Ti 200 now and can't use the 12.90 > drivers anymore because those drivers don't recognize GF3 Ti 200 because > they were released before that card was availalable. So I'm back to the > problem with no car in the mirriors in F12001, but I expect EA to fix itand > not Nvidia. If the R8500 had good drivers I would have bought one insteadof > the GF3 Ti 200, I didn't base my purchase on brand loyalty, but ratherwhich > card was going to work the best. > >

> and going back driver releases on Nvidia products fixes the problem? Actually it didn't for me. I tried 6.31,7.52,12.40,12.90,21.83,21.88,21.50 all to no improvment. I even tried different O/S as well. Win2000 with 21.83 worked the best but inWin2000 I couldn't get split axis where i could in ME. And yes all traces of the old drivers were removed via a reg edit or a full blown format c and fresh O/S. Also before you ask yes it was a long weekend. :) MadDAWG

Wow that's a lot of driver releases! I wish you could find a set that worked for you because your missing out on a really good sim. "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > and going back driver releases on Nvidia products fixes the problem? > > > Actually it didn't for me. I tried 6.31,7.52,12.40,12.90,21.83,21.88,21.50 > all to no improvment. I even tried different O/S as well. Win2000 with > 21.83 worked the best but inWin2000 I couldn't get split axis where icould > in ME. And yes all traces of the old drivers were removed via a reg editor

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> a full blown format c and fresh O/S. Also before you ask yes it was a long > weekend. :) > > MadDAWG > > >

Murchman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9t13su$16lv3m$[email hidden]... > Wow that's a lot of driver releases! I wish you could find a set thatworked > for you because your missing out on a really good sim. > Yes and no. I am missing out on F12001 true, but in the process I found my GPL cd rom that I put away right after buying it because of no D3D support. I actually bought it the week it came out, but when I installed it and found no D3D support for my new TNT card it was quickly uninstalled and thrown in a drawer. I had pulled it out a few times since then, but for what ever reason I never got into it. This time around however is different. I have been staying up late every night, downloading anything I find for it (thank goodness for cable!) and talking all my friends into firing it up. So I'm missing out on one sim, but I 'found' another. :) MadDAWG

"Murchman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9t10cg$15s629$[email hidden]... > If it was the games fault how come all other video cards run it just fine > and going back driver releases on Nvidia products fixes the problem? > > murchman Well, how come every other game I have works fine and only F12001 has this problem? Because ISI/EA didn't test the game properly. If you want to look at shoddy drivers just try playing Porsche Unleashed on an R8500. Or, why do so many games perform poorly on the R8500 when the hardware is actually superior to Nvidia's?

F1 2001 supposedly worked fine with the nVIDIA drivers that were available when it went gold. The drivers that were released after it went gold were not compatible. Hence it was a bad driver release. I am not currently using an nVIDIA card, and the reason is because that used to be a constant problem with them. New drivers to support a new card or new game almost always broke one of the games I already had. Haven't had that problem with the Radeon (crossing fingers). "Murchman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9t10cg$15s629$[email hidden]... > If it was the games fault how come all other video cards run it justfine

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> and going back driver releases on Nvidia products fixes the problem? > > murchman > > "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:%SQI7.2415$[email hidden]... > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:A3KI7.31150$[email hidden]... > > > so which ones are the working good stable drivers? I mean which

ones > > can > > > I install, and forget...having compatiblity with F12001 AND oldersims > AND > > > current shooters? And you are very right...I currently don'thave a > > > Nvidia product...although there is one in the house.... > > > dave henrie > > > > There are many versions that are perfectly stable. Read any reviewon > > current GF3 cards and/or Radeon 8500. Everyone mentions the poorstate of > > the Radeon drivers and many mention the good quality of the Nvidia > drivers. > > If you want the problem with no cars in F12001 and then use 12.90 > drivers. > > I had no problems in any other games either. Anyway, the problem isthe > game > > and not the drivers. I'm using a GF3 Ti 200 now and can't use the12.90 > > drivers anymore because those drivers don't recognize GF3 Ti 200because > > they were released before that card was availalable. So I'm back tothe > > problem with no car in the mirriors in F12001, but I expect EA tofix it > and > > not Nvidia. If the R8500 had good drivers I would have bought oneinstead > of > > the GF3 Ti 200, I didn't base my purchase on brand loyalty, butrather > which > > card was going to work the best. > > > > > >

I just remember that that papyrus couldn't get the nvidia mirrors to work in GPL with the opengl patch...well they worked, but they really impacted the framerate. papyrus kept saying it was due to Nvidia's lousy drivers....to this day I don't think there is a driver set that allows fast framerates with opengl in GPL. The D3d patch was a godsend for non-3dfxers. (and YES Goy I caught your meaning) :> So to see similar issues still floating around 3 years later, doesn't give me much hope that Nvidia can write drivers any better than ATI. dave henrie "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%SQI7.2415$[email hidden]... > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:A3KI7.31150$[email hidden]... > > so which ones are the working good stable drivers? I mean which ones > can > > I install, and forget...having compatiblity with F12001 AND older simsAND

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> > current shooters? And you are very right...I currently don't have a > > Nvidia product...although there is one in the house.... > > dave henrie > > There are many versions that are perfectly stable. Read any review on > current GF3 cards and/or Radeon 8500. Everyone mentions the poor state of > the Radeon drivers and many mention the good quality of the Nvidia

drivers. > If you want the problem with no cars in F12001 and then use 12.90drivers. > I had no problems in any other games either. Anyway, the problem is thegame > and not the drivers. I'm using a GF3 Ti 200 now and can't use the 12.90 > drivers anymore because those drivers don't recognize GF3 Ti 200 because > they were released before that card was availalable. So I'm back to the > problem with no car in the mirriors in F12001, but I expect EA to fix itand > not Nvidia. If the R8500 had good drivers I would have bought one insteadof > the GF3 Ti 200, I didn't base my purchase on brand loyalty, but ratherwhich > card was going to work the best. > >

Dave Henrie wrote:

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> > I just remember that that papyrus couldn't get the nvidia mirrors to > work in GPL with the opengl patch...well they worked, but they really > impacted the framerate. papyrus kept saying it was due to Nvidia's lousy > drivers....to this day I don't think there is a driver set that allows fast > framerates with opengl in GPL. The D3d patch was a godsend for non-3dfxers. > (and YES Goy I caught your meaning) :> > So to see similar issues still floating around 3 years later, doesn't give > me much hope that Nvidia can write drivers any better than ATI. > dave henrie

ROFL, kinda thought you would Dave :-) Gonna install XP on my gaming PC this weekend, a customer of mine told me he had no problems running games on his V5 under XP, we'll see I guess Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:f21J7.34434$[email hidden]... > I just remember that that papyrus couldn't get the nvidia mirrors to > work in GPL with the opengl patch...well they worked, but they really > impacted the framerate. papyrus kept saying it was due to Nvidia's lousy > drivers....to this day I don't think there is a driver set that allowsfast > framerates with opengl in GPL. The D3d patch was a godsend fornon-3dfxers. > (and YES Goy I caught your meaning) :> > So to see similar issues still floating around 3 years later, doesn'tgive > me much hope that Nvidia can write drivers any better than ATI. > dave henrie That was then. I took back my first GF2 because the drivers sucked and put in a V5. After 3DFX went down the tubes I got another GF2 and the drivers were much better by that time. As for OpenGL, Nvidia has the best OpenGL drivers on the consumer market. Just ask John Carmack or Oleg Maddox (IL-2 Sturmovik) if you don't believe me.N4 runs pretty good in OpenGL on a Nvidia card. It's 3DFX who put out crappy OpenGL support.

In article <Zt8I7.2184$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > >I'm looking at upgrading my GF2 to either a Geforce3 Ti 200 or an ATI R8500 >this week (maybe). I'm interested in the 8500 because it has more features >and better image quality (although both are nice) than the GF3 cards. It >also looks like that when you turn on features like FSAA and such the R8500 >is a better performer than the GD3. At least that's how it looks to me from >the review at DigitLife. But, how stable is this card in your racing sims >and any other games you might have? My GF2 using the 12.90 drivers has no >issues with any games I own and has been rock solid for me. Can I expect the >same from an 8500 or am I asking for trouble if I buy this card?

Wow. This troll got a lot of response, didn't he? Go away, fanboy. -Tim

"STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Db7J7.2482$[email hidden]... > > "Murchman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9t10cg$15s629$[email hidden]... > > If it was the games fault how come all other video cards run it justfine

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> > and going back driver releases on Nvidia products fixes the problem? > > > > murchman > > Well, how come every other game I have works fine and only F12001 has this > problem? Because ISI/EA didn't test the game properly. If you want to look > at shoddy drivers just try playing Porsche Unleashed on an R8500. Or, why > do so many games perform poorly on the R8500 when the hardware is actually > superior to Nvidia's? >

That still doesn't explain why every other card runs the game just fine except Nvidia.....

STP, looking at the article at www.Anandtech.com you may have made the wrong choice. The new drivers apparently work very well and the image quality is quite extraordinary. Smoothvision 2x looks a LOT nicer than even 4x AA on the GF3. Rafe Mc On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 07:37:08 -0500, "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I'm looking at upgrading my GF2 to either a Geforce3 Ti 200 or an ATI R8500 >this week (maybe). I'm interested in the 8500 because it has more features >and better image quality (although both are nice) than the GF3 cards. It >also looks like that when you turn on features like FSAA and such the R8500 >is a better performer than the GD3. At least that's how it looks to me from >the review at DigitLife. But, how stable is this card in your racing sims >and any other games you might have? My GF2 using the 12.90 drivers has no >issues with any games I own and has been rock solid for me. Can I expect the >same from an 8500 or am I asking for trouble if I buy this card?

"murchman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xteJ7.18194$[email hidden]... > That still doesn't explain why every other card runs the game just fine > except Nvidia..... If you can't make your game run properly on the most popular video card on the market then you better figure out a way or get out of the business. :-)

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > STP, looking at the article at www.Anandtech.com you may have made the > wrong choice. The new drivers apparently work very well and the image > quality is quite extraordinary. Smoothvision 2x looks a LOT nicer than > even 4x AA on the GF3. > > Rafe Mc Thx, but I already read it, and a few other articles on the new drivers. Smoothvision looks better, but performs worse. I don't use FSAA on games unless they are old games that can't do high res. Quincunx/Smoothvision are not big selling features that really mean all that much to me. Compatibility and performance is.Cards need to be lot more powerful than they are today to make FSAA really viable. FSAA kills the fill rate, so does 32bit. Games are still pushing the envelope of performance so using those features on new games are still questionable. I don't think I made the wrong choice. I can still take it back if I really want to go R8500. I'll think about it some more.

Why is he a troll by asking a question about a new video card? If anyone is the troll around here, it is you. Vintook "The Enigmatic One" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%edJ7.1863$[email hidden]... > In article <Zt8I7.2184$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > > > > >I'm looking at upgrading my GF2 to either a Geforce3 Ti 200 or an ATIR8500 > >this week (maybe). I'm interested in the 8500 because it has morefeatures > >and better image quality (although both are nice) than the GF3 cards. It > >also looks like that when you turn on features like FSAA and such theR8500 > >is a better performer than the GD3. At least that's how it looks to mefrom > >the review at DigitLife. But, how stable is this card in your racing sims > >and any other games you might have? My GF2 using the 12.90 drivers has no > >issues with any games I own and has been rock solid for me. Can I expectthe

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> >same from an 8500 or am I asking for trouble if I buy this card? > > Wow. This troll got a lot of response, didn't he? > > Go away, fanboy. > > > -Tim >

True, frame rate does kill it a lot with FSAA enabled. But without any AA, the image quality is a LOT nicer. I'm amazed, kind of wondering whether I should have gotten my GF3 as well. Oh well. ATI may be picking up their game enough to snatch a lot of sales from nVidia. Rafe Mc On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:16:25 -0500, "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> STP, looking at the article at www.Anandtech.com you may have made the >> wrong choice. The new drivers apparently work very well and the image >> quality is quite extraordinary. Smoothvision 2x looks a LOT nicer than >> even 4x AA on the GF3. >> >> Rafe Mc > >Thx, but I already read it, and a few other articles on the new drivers. >Smoothvision looks better, but performs worse. I don't use FSAA on games >unless they are old games that can't do high res. Quincunx/Smoothvision are >not big selling features that really mean all that much to me. Compatibility >and performance is.Cards need to be lot more powerful than they are today to >make FSAA really viable. FSAA kills the fill rate, so does 32bit. Games are >still pushing the envelope of performance so using those features on new >games are still questionable. I don't think I made the wrong choice. I can >still take it back if I really want to go R8500. I'll think about it some >more. >

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > True, frame rate does kill it a lot with FSAA enabled. But without any > AA, the image quality is a LOT nicer. I'm amazed, kind of wondering > whether I should have gotten my GF3 as well. Oh well. ATI may be > picking up their game enough to snatch a lot of sales from nVidia. > > Rafe Mc I was about to take the Ti 200 back today and get the R8500 because there is a nasty bug in the Nvidia XP drivers that in some games causes a BSOD with the message that nv4-disp.dll has caused an infinite loop. Appeaently it doesn't happen if you use the drivers that ship with XP, but they are slow in games so I won't use them. But, just read a post form a fellow who tested both the R8500 and the GF3 Ti 200 and he preffered the GF3 Ti 200. So I think I will just put up with the XP problem until Nvidia fixes it. Or I could go back to Win98.

"Vintook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xgjJ7.483660$[email hidden]... > Why is he a troll by asking a question about a new video card? If anyoneis > the troll around here, it is you. > > Vintook Heh...I missed that post, thx for quoting it. Tim, you're an idiot. My post was sincere and not a troll of any kind.

In article <xgjJ7.483660$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > >Why is he a troll by asking a question about a new video card? If anyone is >the troll around here, it is you. Don't read much, do you. His question was merely an excuse to knock one side in a current choice of vid cards. He asked the question and almost hid his bias, then proceeded to, with every response he got, respond himself with an anti-Radeon post. Read the whole thread. As is, I don't give a shit about the Radeon vs. NVidia thing, but I recognize a fanboy troll when I see one. -Tim

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>I was about to take the Ti 200 back today and get the R8500 because there is >a nasty bug in the Nvidia XP drivers that in some games causes a BSOD with >the message that nv4-disp.dll has caused an infinite loop. Appeaently it >doesn't happen if you use the drivers that ship with XP, but they are slow >in games so I won't use them. But, just read a post form a fellow who tested >both the R8500 and the GF3 Ti 200 and he preffered the GF3 Ti 200. So I >think I will just put up with the XP problem until Nvidia fixes it. Or I >could go back to Win98. >

That's a bit rough, I'm using win98se myself, so I haven't had those problems. The bonus with the ti 200 of course, is that it is a hell of an overclocker. I've already boosted mine from the stock 175 mhz core, 400 mem up to 230 core, 517 mem. That's even faster than the ti 500 at almost twice the price :) Rafe Mc

On Sun, 18 Nov 2001 02:09:41 GMT, [email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote:

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> >>I was about to take the Ti 200 back today and get the R8500 because there is >>a nasty bug in the Nvidia XP drivers that in some games causes a BSOD with >>the message that nv4-disp.dll has caused an infinite loop. Appeaently it >>doesn't happen if you use the drivers that ship with XP, but they are slow >>in games so I won't use them. But, just read a post form a fellow who tested >>both the R8500 and the GF3 Ti 200 and he preffered the GF3 Ti 200. So I >>think I will just put up with the XP problem until Nvidia fixes it. Or I >>could go back to Win98. >> >That's a bit rough, I'm using win98se myself, so I haven't had those >problems. > >The bonus with the ti 200 of course, is that it is a hell of an >overclocker. I've already boosted mine from the stock 175 mhz core, >400 mem up to 230 core, 517 mem. That's even faster than the ti 500 at >almost twice the price :) > >Rafe Mc

Actually, further testing has revealed that I can run at 540mhz mem. Not too bad. :) Rafe Mc

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Actually, further testing has revealed that I can run at 540mhz mem. > Not too bad. :) > > Rafe Mc > Yea, that's pretty good. I overclocked mine and then I had the settings load at startup because all seemed well in games, but my PC froze as soon as I entered Windows. Never mind because I returned the GF3 Ti 200 today and am now running an R8500, which is already clocked at 275/550. :-) F12001 runs great now, Flight sim 2002 has a problem with textures flashing on/off, but hey, you win some - you lose some.

"The Enigmatic One" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2FCJ7.1876$[email hidden]... > Don't read much, do you. His question was merely an excuse to knock > one side in a current choice of vid cards. He asked the question andalmost > hid his bias, then proceeded to, with every response he got, respondhimself

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> with an anti-Radeon post. Read the whole thread. > > As is, I don't give a shit about the Radeon vs. NVidia thing, but I > recognize a fanboy troll when I see one. > > > -Tim >

Hey moron, I'm typing this to you on a PC equiped with an ATI 8500. I was just looking at it from all angles, but just yesterday took back the GF3 Ti 200 and got the R8500 instead. Both are good cards. The jury is still out on which is the real winner until ATI gets out better drivers. But looking at it from a hardware only perspective the 8500 is better. From a driver standpoint the GF3 is better and the people that were complaining about shitty Nvidia drivers don't know what the hell they are talking about so I was setting them straight. Nvidia doens't have perfect drivers, but they are very good at this point in time if you are running a Win98 system. If you have XP then they are not so good. I now have in my possesion a Geforce2, an ATI 8500 and a Voodoo3. I don't favour anyone so cut the shit.

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>Yea, that's pretty good. I overclocked mine and then I had the settings load >at startup because all seemed well in games, but my PC froze as soon as I >entered Windows. Never mind because I returned the GF3 Ti 200 today and am >now running an R8500, which is already clocked at 275/550. :-) F12001 runs >great now, Flight sim 2002 has a problem with textures flashing on/off, but >hey, you win some - you lose some. >

I wish comp. vendors here in Australia were as flexible as they seem in the USA, here you have to fight with 90% of them to accept FAULTY products, let alone ones that you weren't happy with. Have you noticed much difference in texture quality in sims? More than fast enough I guess, but any problems at all? Comparisom between the two cards? Rafe Mc

On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:12:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote:

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>I wish comp. vendors here in Australia were as flexible as they seem >in the USA, here you have to fight with 90% of them to accept FAULTY >products, let alone ones that you weren't happy with. > >Have you noticed much difference in texture quality in sims? More than >fast enough I guess, but any problems at all? Comparisom between the >two cards? > >Rafe Mc

Not only that, but they seem perfectly happy to accept a card that's been OCed. I almost feel sympathy for the box-pushers, except I don't. <g> -- Spadge Fromley ''collect your rubbsih and in my belly it will go ...''

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I wish comp. vendors here in Australia were as flexible as they seem > in the USA, here you have to fight with 90% of them to accept FAULTY > products, let alone ones that you weren't happy with. That was at EB I returned it and even they have changed their return policy. One time exchange only now. But, the Nvidia cards using the 2x.xx drivers on XP have a major bug so I just showed them the error report I got from watchdog and the MS Knowledge Base article on the problem. Hard to argue with that when the card is supposed to be compatible with XP. > Have you noticed much difference in texture quality in sims? More than > fast enough I guess, but any problems at all? Comparisom between the > two cards? Texture quality looks the same to me. But I didn't use a magnifying glass to check. :-) Smoothvision works fine in some games and in others it completely screw things up. I tried it in F12002 and never saw it turned on. As I said there is a major problem with FS2002. I would say it depends on what OS you are running. If you have Win9x then I think a GF3 is a better choice all around. But if you are running XP then the R8500 is better because of the Nvidia driver bug problem, nopt everyone gets this problem. But, if you play FS2002 do not buy an R8500 until the driver problem is fixed. The fiinal call on the R8500 is out until ATI release better drivers. The fact remains that the R8500 is superior hardware running on inferior drivers.

"Spadge Fromley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 01:12:27 GMT, [email hidden] (Rafe > McAuliffe) wrote: > Not only that, but they seem perfectly happy to accept a card that's > been OCed. I almost feel sympathy for the box-pushers, except I > don't. > > <g>

How are they to know if it's been overclcoked or not? There is no way to tell.

On 20/11/2001 18:49, in article JGwK7.128$[email hidden], "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote: > How are they to know if it's been overclcoked or not? There is no way to > tell. The melted core and the scorched RAM does it, usually. :-) -- Jared Earle - Nightfall Games - http://nightfall.co.uk "There is no SPORK"

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>Texture quality looks the same to me. But I didn't use a magnifying glass to >check. :-) >Smoothvision works fine in some games and in others it completely screw >things up. >I tried it in F12002 and never saw it turned on. As I said there is a major >problem with FS2002. I would say it depends on what OS you are running. If >you have Win9x then I think a GF3 is a better choice all around. But if you >are running XP then the R8500 is better because of the Nvidia driver bug >problem, nopt everyone gets this problem. But, if you play FS2002 do not buy >an R8500 until the driver problem is fixed. The fiinal call on the R8500 is >out until ATI release better drivers. The fact remains that the R8500 is >superior hardware running on inferior drivers.

So good and bad huh? Do you drive GPL at all? Any difference in D3D or openGL? At least your drivers will only get better, plenty of performance potential :) Rafe Mc

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > So good and bad huh? Do you drive GPL at all? Any difference in D3D or > openGL? I have GPL, but I haven't installed it since I got WinXP. Will install soon and let you know how it is. > At least your drivers will only get better, plenty of performance > potential :) I hope, the potential is certainly there.

"Jared ''Danger'' Earle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:B8205C35.D67%[email hidden]... > On 20/11/2001 18:49, in article JGwK7.128$[email hidden], "STP" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > The melted core and the scorched RAM does it, usually. :-) Must have been a faulty card. I swear I never overclcocked it.

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > So good and bad huh? Do you drive GPL at all? Any difference in D3D or > openGL? Ok, finally got around to installing GPL tonight, I get the GPL splash screen and then it quites to the desktop. I thought I read here that GPL runs fine on WindowsXP. I'm using NTFS and not FAT32 so wonder if that's the problem. Oh well, can't tell you how it runs on the R8500 because it just ain't running period. :-(

"-Ger" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> With the latest XP drivers, I can't run GPL with any type of > FSAA/SmoothVision or it results in the image smearing and shifting to > the left constantly. It's a weird effect I've never seen before. > Otherwise, it looks great and runs smoothly @ 1600x1200 D3D with no > FSAA/SmoothVision. The previous drivers didn't have any of these > problems. I tried the beta OpenGL driver for GPL, but the result was > just plain unplayable (fuzzy image and a slideshow).

Yea, I've seen that problem in a few games with Smoothvision on.I downloaded the Omega drivers last night and they fix a problem where the textures would drop out in FS2002. Get them here if you want to try them out. These are unified drivers and are supposed to be optimized for speed and quality. No problems with them here so far. http://209.145.56.247/ati.htm > BTW, I'm using FAT32. I don't know if that should really matter > though. Well, I can't get it run at all and I'm not going to go back to FAT32 to get it running either. I have lots of other games I can play.

>> BTW, I'm using FAT32. I don't know if that should really matter >> though. > >Well, I can't get it run at all and I'm not going to go back to FAT32 to get >it running either. I have lots of other games I can play. >Tis a shame, but I've heard of problems with GPL and NTFS but then others have had no problem. I don't think NTFS is the problem, more likely to be XP. You tried installing from the CD, not just copying a backup? Software mode? Don't have any other ideas, I guess it depends on how much you want GPL running. Rafe Mc

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Tis a shame, but I've heard of problems with GPL and NTFS but then > others have had no problem. I don't think NTFS is the problem, more > likely to be XP. You tried installing from the CD, not just copying a > backup? Software mode? Yes, fresh install. This the first game I have come across that I can't get to run on XP. > Don't have any other ideas, I guess it depends on how much you want > GPL running. Thx for trying anyway, GPL is not a big deal to me.