Slightly OT: CPU/Mobo Upgrade Question

I'm thinking of upgrading my system's motherboard and CPU. I really like my Voodoo5 videocard and would prefer to continue using it. I've read in the past that it scales well with faster processors, but there has to be a point where it becomes a bottleneck. So, I'd be interested in hearing what processors those of you with Voodoo 5's are using. FYI, I'm presently running a Celeron 566@850. I want to continue using Windows 98SE and my 384 Megs of RAM after upgrading. My main priority in racing sims is GPL, but I also run some N4, NH, CMR2 and F12K1. Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated. TIA -- Bert

I've just upgraded to a GF3 ti 200, it runs damn well. GPL in 1920x1440 :D That's with a Tbird 1.4ghz Rafe Mc On Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:57:35 -0500, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I'm thinking of upgrading my system's motherboard and CPU. I really >like my Voodoo5 videocard and would prefer to continue using it. I've >read in the past that it scales well with faster processors, but there >has to be a point where it becomes a bottleneck. > >So, I'd be interested in hearing what processors those of you with >Voodoo 5's are using. > >FYI, I'm presently running a Celeron 566@850. I want to continue using >Windows 98SE and my 384 Megs of RAM after upgrading. My main priority >in racing sims is GPL, but I also run some N4, NH, CMR2 and F12K1. > >Any thoughts/suggestions would be appreciated. > >TIA

Well here is my theroy on upgrading. Figure out how much you have to spend and buy the best you can with that amount. If you want to stay with your V5 thats fine, but why limit your cpu to match your video card? The cpu does other things besides graphics like AI calculations, networking functions, etc. Reusing your ram may be you biggest problem since you didn't post what speed it is. If its anything less than pc133 you will limit your choices when it comes to current setups. If its PC133 then you you should be ok. Also if you want Intel then your ram is a real problem due to most of the Intel setups are for RAMBUS. If you were to go AMD you can pick up 256 meg of PC2100 (266mhz DDR) for $40 USD, so its not really worth limiting your choices to save some old ram IMO. AS far as brands go I have had really good luck with ASUS mother boards myself and won't use anything, but execpt for an ABIT maybe. As far as Intel vs. AMD you can make your own choice there, but a AMD system will usally run you less money and give you better performance and simular systems. For example on 3dmark2001 my AMD 1.4 T-bird with a geforce2 card outruns a P4 1.7 with the same Geforce2 card. Here is my typical frame rates for the games I run with my GF2 1.4-tbird 512 ddr ram GF2 combo. GPL with track and car graphical impovements. 35-36 with a short dip to 30 at start. [1280 res 2xFSAA, D3D] N4 30 at start, 45 -60 in traffic, up to 100 alone [1280 ers, 2xFSAA, OpenGL] NH 58.4 in benchark [1280 res no FSAA} MadDAWG

Thanks for that detailed reply MadDAWG. You make a good point about RAM prices. I have PC100 now, but I agree that perhaps I should just ditch it. I'm not locked into Intel, but could you be more specific on your point about RAMBUS. (By "Intel" do you mean Intel mobos, or CPU's?) The reason I want to keep using the Voodoo5 is twofold (and I don't say this to start a flame war....) 1. I like using the Glide wrapper in GPL. Lots more visibility in the mirrors -- and I need it when I'm being lapped. LOL. 2. My impression from various posts is that the Nvidia drivers are constantly being tweaked to run various sims -- F12K1 in particular. I've found that the V5 works with almost anything right from the get-go. Thanks again for your thoughts. Bert MadDAWG wrote:

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> Well here is my theroy on upgrading. Figure out how much you have to spend > and buy the best you can with that amount. If you want to stay with your V5 > thats fine, but why limit your cpu to match your video card? The cpu does > other things besides graphics like AI calculations, networking functions, > etc. Reusing your ram may be you biggest problem since you didn't post what > speed it is. If its anything less than pc133 you will limit your choices > when it comes to current setups. If its PC133 then you you should be ok. > Also if you want Intel then your ram is a real problem due to most of the > Intel setups are for RAMBUS. If you were to go AMD you can pick up 256 meg > of PC2100 (266mhz DDR) for $40 USD, so its not really worth limiting your > choices to save some old ram IMO. AS far as brands go I have had really good > luck with ASUS mother boards myself and won't use anything, but execpt for > an ABIT maybe. As far as Intel vs. AMD you can make your own choice there, > but a AMD system will usally run you less money and give you better > performance and simular systems. For example on 3dmark2001 my AMD 1.4 T-bird > with a geforce2 card outruns a P4 1.7 with the same Geforce2 card. > > Here is my typical frame rates for the games I run with my GF2 1.4-tbird 512 > ddr ram GF2 combo. > > GPL with track and car graphical impovements. 35-36 with a short dip to 30 > at start. [1280 res 2xFSAA, D3D] > N4 30 at start, 45 -60 in traffic, up to 100 alone [1280 ers, 2xFSAA, > OpenGL] > NH 58.4 in benchark [1280 res no FSAA} > > MadDAWG

-- Bert

I had the same thing with the old V3 3000, no changing drivers, they worked with everything. But those days are gone now. I'd suggest keeping your V5 (you seem pretty happy with it) and getting an Athlon/DDR RAM combo. In 6mths or more, GF3 prices will have dropped a lot and you'll pick up a bargain. I'd suggest you get a tbird/athlon XP (or a P4 if you prefer Intel) over the cheaper versions (Duron and Celeron). Sim racing uses the L2 cache very heavily, and this is a big advantage with these chips. Oh, and Rambus (Or usually RDRAM) is the ram made specifically for P4's. You won't see any real difference in sims or other 3D stuff ATM, but if you believe Intel hype then you're "investing in the future". I'd suggest save your dollars, it costs 4 times as much. Rafe Mc On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:14:59 -0500, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Thanks for that detailed reply MadDAWG. > >You make a good point about RAM prices. I have PC100 now, but I agree that >perhaps I should just ditch it. I'm not locked into Intel, but could you be >more specific on your point about RAMBUS. (By "Intel" do you mean Intel mobos, >or CPU's?) > >The reason I want to keep using the Voodoo5 is twofold (and I don't say this to >start a flame war....) > >1. I like using the Glide wrapper in GPL. Lots more visibility in the mirrors >-- and I need it when I'm being lapped. LOL. > >2. My impression from various posts is that the Nvidia drivers are constantly >being tweaked to run various sims -- F12K1 in particular. I've found that the >V5 works with almost anything right from the get-go. > >Thanks again for your thoughts. > >Bert > > > > >MadDAWG wrote: > >> Well here is my theroy on upgrading. Figure out how much you have to spend >> and buy the best you can with that amount. If you want to stay with your V5 >> thats fine, but why limit your cpu to match your video card? The cpu does >> other things besides graphics like AI calculations, networking functions, >> etc. Reusing your ram may be you biggest problem since you didn't post what >> speed it is. If its anything less than pc133 you will limit your choices >> when it comes to current setups. If its PC133 then you you should be ok. >> Also if you want Intel then your ram is a real problem due to most of the >> Intel setups are for RAMBUS. If you were to go AMD you can pick up 256 meg >> of PC2100 (266mhz DDR) for $40 USD, so its not really worth limiting your >> choices to save some old ram IMO. AS far as brands go I have had really good >> luck with ASUS mother boards myself and won't use anything, but execpt for >> an ABIT maybe. As far as Intel vs. AMD you can make your own choice there, >> but a AMD system will usally run you less money and give you better >> performance and simular systems. For example on 3dmark2001 my AMD 1.4 T-bird >> with a geforce2 card outruns a P4 1.7 with the same Geforce2 card. >> >> Here is my typical frame rates for the games I run with my GF2 1.4-tbird 512 >> ddr ram GF2 combo. >> >> GPL with track and car graphical impovements. 35-36 with a short dip to 30 >> at start. [1280 res 2xFSAA, D3D] >> N4 30 at start, 45 -60 in traffic, up to 100 alone [1280 ers, 2xFSAA, >> OpenGL] >> NH 58.4 in benchark [1280 res no FSAA} >> >> MadDAWG

>I'm not locked into Intel, but could you be > more specific on your point about RAMBUS. (By "Intel" do you mean Intelmobos, > or CPU's?) When I say Intel that is the chipset. I'm not a big Intel person myself, but not because I dislike Intel products. I just like the pricing and performance of AMD better. Rambus or RDRAM is Intel's memory system of choice since the P3. Its suppose to be faster than DDR but you can't really compare the two heads up based on their speed ratings. Rambus has to speeds a 600 and 800 (I'm not to fresh on Rambus so things may have changed since). Now if you look at it quickly you would think even the 600 would blow away the top 266DDR ram. This is not the case how ever. The Rambus is faster but not twice or three time faster, but more like 5-10%. I belive Intel has a stake in Rambus somehow so they refuse to let it die. Its not that Rambus is bad its just that it is much more expensive than DDR. Last I knew it was three to four times more in price. > The reason I want to keep using the Voodoo5 is twofold (and I don't saythis to > start a flame war....) I'm not about to flame you for it. You have something you like for reasons that makes you happy so what's wrong with that? I may or not agree with you but no need for a flame suit from me. One good thing about keeping your V5 is that the money that you would have spent on a new card can go to a better cpu, more ram, better sound card, etc. > > 1. I like using the Glide wrapper in GPL. Lots more visibility in themirrors > -- and I need it when I'm being lapped. LOL. I can relate to that last part ! > > 2. My impression from various posts is that the Nvidia drivers areconstantly > being tweaked to run various sims -- F12K1 in particular. I've found thatthe > V5 works with almost anything right from the get-go. You can look at this too ways. The first, which I think is were you fall, is that Nvidia's constant driver upgrades are a pain to keep up with when all I really wan t to do is play. The second way, which is more my opinion, is that is a good thing because the card you buy today will not be forgotten in 3 mounths. A good example of this is with my GF2. In N4 openGL I had been getting about 40 fps in mild traffic and down to high teens in heavy traffic. The other day I tried the 21.88 beta drivers and i went to 60 fps in mild and 30 in heavy traffic, as well as hitting 100 out buy myself. Now in most case to see that kind of frame rate jumps I would have to buy a new card, and here I got it for free. Now there is a lot of beta drivers floating around, but as far as offical drivers go they don't change all that often. As far as needing a specific driver for for a certain game goes F12001 is really the first time I have ever really had a problem with a game not running correctly because of a driver version. Sure some titles like a given version better than another, but until F12001 they have all still been playable and the differance in driver versions have really been a few fps or a little differance in image quaality, in all nothing major. > Thanks again for your thoughts. Anytime MadDAWG

"BRH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Thanks for that detailed reply MadDAWG. > > You make a good point about RAM prices. I have PC100 now, but I agreethat > perhaps I should just ditch it. I'm not locked into Intel, but could yoube > more specific on your point about RAMBUS. (By "Intel" do you mean Intelmobos, > or CPU's?) > > The reason I want to keep using the Voodoo5 is twofold (and I don't saythis to > start a flame war....) > > 1. I like using the Glide wrapper in GPL. Lots more visibility in themirrors > -- and I need it when I'm being lapped. LOL. Mirrors have higher res using the D3D patch. > 2. My impression from various posts is that the Nvidia drivers areconstantly > being tweaked to run various sims -- F12K1 in particular. I've found thatthe > V5 works with almost anything right from the get-go. F12001 is the only game that has a problem on the 21.x.x series of Nvidia drivers that I have come across. As a an ex-hardore 3DFX fan who switched to GF3 said the other day in the flight-sim newsgroup, the Nvidia drivers are just as stable if not more so than any drivers 3DFX ever put out. You people complaining about the state of Nvidia drivers are basing it on old news and not the current state of their drivers. Anyway, the F12001 problem is an EA problem and not Nvidia's. F12001 was released before it was ready. Anyone can clearly see that.

Yeah, I was leaning towards Athlon. I had an AMD CPU way back when, and had a good experience with it, and from what I read the Athlon probably gives the most bang for the buck. But now, I need to get into specifics: I need a mobo that still has one ISA slot because I have a SCSI CD-burner which I don't want to retire yet. (Of course, if there is such a thing as a PCI based SCSI adapter, I won't worry about the mobo having an ISA slot.) -- Any suggestions? Rafe McAuliffe wrote:

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> I had the same thing with the old V3 3000, no changing drivers, they > worked with everything. But those days are gone now. > > I'd suggest keeping your V5 (you seem pretty happy with it) and > getting an Athlon/DDR RAM combo. In 6mths or more, GF3 prices will > have dropped a lot and you'll pick up a bargain. > > I'd suggest you get a tbird/athlon XP (or a P4 if you prefer Intel) > over the cheaper versions (Duron and Celeron). Sim racing uses the L2 > cache very heavily, and this is a big advantage with these chips. > > Oh, and Rambus (Or usually RDRAM) is the ram made specifically for > P4's. You won't see any real difference in sims or other 3D stuff ATM, > but if you believe Intel hype then you're "investing in the future". > I'd suggest save your dollars, it costs 4 times as much. > > Rafe Mc > > On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:14:59 -0500, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Thanks for that detailed reply MadDAWG. > > > >You make a good point about RAM prices. I have PC100 now, but I agree that > >perhaps I should just ditch it. I'm not locked into Intel, but could you be > >more specific on your point about RAMBUS. (By "Intel" do you mean Intel mobos, > >or CPU's?) > > > >The reason I want to keep using the Voodoo5 is twofold (and I don't say this to > >start a flame war....) > > > >1. I like using the Glide wrapper in GPL. Lots more visibility in the mirrors > >-- and I need it when I'm being lapped. LOL. > > > >2. My impression from various posts is that the Nvidia drivers are constantly > >being tweaked to run various sims -- F12K1 in particular. I've found that the > >V5 works with almost anything right from the get-go. > > > >Thanks again for your thoughts. > > > >Bert > > > > > > > > > >MadDAWG wrote: > > > >> Well here is my theroy on upgrading. Figure out how much you have to spend > >> and buy the best you can with that amount. If you want to stay with your V5 > >> thats fine, but why limit your cpu to match your video card? The cpu does > >> other things besides graphics like AI calculations, networking functions, > >> etc. Reusing your ram may be you biggest problem since you didn't post what > >> speed it is. If its anything less than pc133 you will limit your choices > >> when it comes to current setups. If its PC133 then you you should be ok. > >> Also if you want Intel then your ram is a real problem due to most of the > >> Intel setups are for RAMBUS. If you were to go AMD you can pick up 256 meg > >> of PC2100 (266mhz DDR) for $40 USD, so its not really worth limiting your > >> choices to save some old ram IMO. AS far as brands go I have had really good > >> luck with ASUS mother boards myself and won't use anything, but execpt for > >> an ABIT maybe. As far as Intel vs. AMD you can make your own choice there, > >> but a AMD system will usally run you less money and give you better > >> performance and simular systems. For example on 3dmark2001 my AMD 1.4 T-bird > >> with a geforce2 card outruns a P4 1.7 with the same Geforce2 card. > >> > >> Here is my typical frame rates for the games I run with my GF2 1.4-tbird 512 > >> ddr ram GF2 combo. > >> > >> GPL with track and car graphical impovements. 35-36 with a short dip to 30 > >> at start. [1280 res 2xFSAA, D3D] > >> N4 30 at start, 45 -60 in traffic, up to 100 alone [1280 ers, 2xFSAA, > >> OpenGL] > >> NH 58.4 in benchark [1280 res no FSAA} > >> > >> MadDAWG

-- Bert

There certainly is a pci scsi adapter, I have one myself. Only $20 Aust (or $10US). I'd suggest getting the Epox EP8kha+, loads of features for a cheap price. The mobo of choice even for Anandtech.com. Coupled with an AthlonXP CPU and you'll be laughing. The 1800+ is already faster than the 2.0ghz P4, the 1900+ is even faster. A review is here: http://www.socketa.com/reviews/epox/8kha+/ Only downside for you is the lack of an ISA slot. But if you grab a pci scsi card you'll be right. Rafe Mc On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:16:40 -0500, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Yeah, I was leaning towards Athlon. I had an AMD CPU way back when, and had a good >experience with it, and from what I read the Athlon probably gives the most bang for >the buck. But now, I need to get into specifics: > >I need a mobo that still has one ISA slot because I have a SCSI CD-burner which I >don't want to retire yet. (Of course, if there is such a thing as a PCI based SCSI >adapter, I won't worry about the mobo having an ISA slot.) -- Any suggestions? > > > > >Rafe McAuliffe wrote: > >> I had the same thing with the old V3 3000, no changing drivers, they >> worked with everything. But those days are gone now. >> >> I'd suggest keeping your V5 (you seem pretty happy with it) and >> getting an Athlon/DDR RAM combo. In 6mths or more, GF3 prices will >> have dropped a lot and you'll pick up a bargain. >> >> I'd suggest you get a tbird/athlon XP (or a P4 if you prefer Intel) >> over the cheaper versions (Duron and Celeron). Sim racing uses the L2 >> cache very heavily, and this is a big advantage with these chips. >> >> Oh, and Rambus (Or usually RDRAM) is the ram made specifically for >> P4's. You won't see any real difference in sims or other 3D stuff ATM, >> but if you believe Intel hype then you're "investing in the future". >> I'd suggest save your dollars, it costs 4 times as much. >> >> Rafe Mc >> >> On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:14:59 -0500, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >Thanks for that detailed reply MadDAWG. >> > >> >You make a good point about RAM prices. I have PC100 now, but I agree that >> >perhaps I should just ditch it. I'm not locked into Intel, but could you be >> >more specific on your point about RAMBUS. (By "Intel" do you mean Intel mobos, >> >or CPU's?) >> > >> >The reason I want to keep using the Voodoo5 is twofold (and I don't say this to >> >start a flame war....) >> > >> >1. I like using the Glide wrapper in GPL. Lots more visibility in the mirrors >> >-- and I need it when I'm being lapped. LOL. >> > >> >2. My impression from various posts is that the Nvidia drivers are constantly >> >being tweaked to run various sims -- F12K1 in particular. I've found that the >> >V5 works with almost anything right from the get-go. >> > >> >Thanks again for your thoughts. >> > >> >Bert >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >MadDAWG wrote: >> > >> >> Well here is my theroy on upgrading. Figure out how much you have to spend >> >> and buy the best you can with that amount. If you want to stay with your V5 >> >> thats fine, but why limit your cpu to match your video card? The cpu does >> >> other things besides graphics like AI calculations, networking functions, >> >> etc. Reusing your ram may be you biggest problem since you didn't post what >> >> speed it is. If its anything less than pc133 you will limit your choices >> >> when it comes to current setups. If its PC133 then you you should be ok. >> >> Also if you want Intel then your ram is a real problem due to most of the >> >> Intel setups are for RAMBUS. If you were to go AMD you can pick up 256 meg >> >> of PC2100 (266mhz DDR) for $40 USD, so its not really worth limiting your >> >> choices to save some old ram IMO. AS far as brands go I have had really good >> >> luck with ASUS mother boards myself and won't use anything, but execpt for >> >> an ABIT maybe. As far as Intel vs. AMD you can make your own choice there, >> >> but a AMD system will usally run you less money and give you better >> >> performance and simular systems. For example on 3dmark2001 my AMD 1.4 T-bird >> >> with a geforce2 card outruns a P4 1.7 with the same Geforce2 card. >> >> >> >> Here is my typical frame rates for the games I run with my GF2 1.4-tbird 512 >> >> ddr ram GF2 combo. >> >> >> >> GPL with track and car graphical impovements. 35-36 with a short dip to 30 >> >> at start. [1280 res 2xFSAA, D3D] >> >> N4 30 at start, 45 -60 in traffic, up to 100 alone [1280 ers, 2xFSAA, >> >> OpenGL] >> >> NH 58.4 in benchark [1280 res no FSAA} >> >> >> >> MadDAWG

Thanks Rafe, Now one last (probably dumb) question. Regarding the AthlonXP CPU's -- Does the XP mean that I have to use Windows XP? (I'd prefer sticking with Windows 98SE as I've got a lot of other "stuff" connected to this rig that already have drivers that work.) Thanks! Rafe McAuliffe wrote:

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> There certainly is a pci scsi adapter, I have one myself. Only $20 > Aust (or $10US). I'd suggest getting the Epox EP8kha+, loads of > features for a cheap price. The mobo of choice even for Anandtech.com. > Coupled with an AthlonXP CPU and you'll be laughing. The 1800+ is > already faster than the 2.0ghz P4, the 1900+ is even faster. > > A review is here: http://www.socketa.com/reviews/epox/8kha+/ Only > downside for you is the lack of an ISA slot. But if you grab a pci > scsi card you'll be right. > > Rafe Mc > > On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:16:40 -0500, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Yeah, I was leaning towards Athlon. I had an AMD CPU way back when, and had a good > >experience with it, and from what I read the Athlon probably gives the most bang for > >the buck. But now, I need to get into specifics: > > > >I need a mobo that still has one ISA slot because I have a SCSI CD-burner which I > >don't want to retire yet. (Of course, if there is such a thing as a PCI based SCSI > >adapter, I won't worry about the mobo having an ISA slot.) -- Any suggestions? > > > > > > > > > >Rafe McAuliffe wrote: > > > >> I had the same thing with the old V3 3000, no changing drivers, they > >> worked with everything. But those days are gone now. > >> > >> I'd suggest keeping your V5 (you seem pretty happy with it) and > >> getting an Athlon/DDR RAM combo. In 6mths or more, GF3 prices will > >> have dropped a lot and you'll pick up a bargain. > >> > >> I'd suggest you get a tbird/athlon XP (or a P4 if you prefer Intel) > >> over the cheaper versions (Duron and Celeron). Sim racing uses the L2 > >> cache very heavily, and this is a big advantage with these chips. > >> > >> Oh, and Rambus (Or usually RDRAM) is the ram made specifically for > >> P4's. You won't see any real difference in sims or other 3D stuff ATM, > >> but if you believe Intel hype then you're "investing in the future". > >> I'd suggest save your dollars, it costs 4 times as much. > >> > >> Rafe Mc > >> > >> On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:14:59 -0500, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> > >> >Thanks for that detailed reply MadDAWG. > >> > > >> >You make a good point about RAM prices. I have PC100 now, but I agree that > >> >perhaps I should just ditch it. I'm not locked into Intel, but could you be > >> >more specific on your point about RAMBUS. (By "Intel" do you mean Intel mobos, > >> >or CPU's?) > >> > > >> >The reason I want to keep using the Voodoo5 is twofold (and I don't say this to > >> >start a flame war....) > >> > > >> >1. I like using the Glide wrapper in GPL. Lots more visibility in the mirrors > >> >-- and I need it when I'm being lapped. LOL. > >> > > >> >2. My impression from various posts is that the Nvidia drivers are constantly > >> >being tweaked to run various sims -- F12K1 in particular. I've found that the > >> >V5 works with almost anything right from the get-go. > >> > > >> >Thanks again for your thoughts. > >> > > >> >Bert > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >MadDAWG wrote: > >> > > >> >> Well here is my theroy on upgrading. Figure out how much you have to spend > >> >> and buy the best you can with that amount. If you want to stay with your V5 > >> >> thats fine, but why limit your cpu to match your video card? The cpu does > >> >> other things besides graphics like AI calculations, networking functions, > >> >> etc. Reusing your ram may be you biggest problem since you didn't post what > >> >> speed it is. If its anything less than pc133 you will limit your choices > >> >> when it comes to current setups. If its PC133 then you you should be ok. > >> >> Also if you want Intel then your ram is a real problem due to most of the > >> >> Intel setups are for RAMBUS. If you were to go AMD you can pick up 256 meg > >> >> of PC2100 (266mhz DDR) for $40 USD, so its not really worth limiting your > >> >> choices to save some old ram IMO. AS far as brands go I have had really good > >> >> luck with ASUS mother boards myself and won't use anything, but execpt for > >> >> an ABIT maybe. As far as Intel vs. AMD you can make your own choice there, > >> >> but a AMD system will usally run you less money and give you better > >> >> performance and simular systems. For example on 3dmark2001 my AMD 1.4 T-bird > >> >> with a geforce2 card outruns a P4 1.7 with the same Geforce2 card. > >> >> > >> >> Here is my typical frame rates for the games I run with my GF2 1.4-tbird 512 > >> >> ddr ram GF2 combo. > >> >> > >> >> GPL with track and car graphical impovements. 35-36 with a short dip to 30 > >> >> at start. [1280 res 2xFSAA, D3D] > >> >> N4 30 at start, 45 -60 in traffic, up to 100 alone [1280 ers, 2xFSAA, > >> >> OpenGL] > >> >> NH 58.4 in benchark [1280 res no FSAA} > >> >> > >> >> MadDAWG

-- Bert

Nope, that's just AMD's marketing label. They'll work with Windows 3.1 if you wanted to use it :) I wouldn't want Windows XP either, that whole "authorisation code" thing stinks. I change my hardware too often for that stuff. Rafe Mc On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 21:29:43 -0500, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Thanks Rafe, > >Now one last (probably dumb) question. Regarding the AthlonXP CPU's -- Does the XP mean >that I have to use Windows XP? (I'd prefer sticking with Windows 98SE as I've got a lot >of other "stuff" connected to this rig that already have drivers that work.) > >Thanks! > > > > >Rafe McAuliffe wrote: > >> There certainly is a pci scsi adapter, I have one myself. Only $20 >> Aust (or $10US). I'd suggest getting the Epox EP8kha+, loads of >> features for a cheap price. The mobo of choice even for Anandtech.com. >> Coupled with an AthlonXP CPU and you'll be laughing. The 1800+ is >> already faster than the 2.0ghz P4, the 1900+ is even faster. >> >> A review is here: http://www.socketa.com/reviews/epox/8kha+/ Only >> downside for you is the lack of an ISA slot. But if you grab a pci >> scsi card you'll be right. >> >> Rafe Mc >> >> On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 20:16:40 -0500, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >Yeah, I was leaning towards Athlon. I had an AMD CPU way back when, and had a good >> >experience with it, and from what I read the Athlon probably gives the most bang for >> >the buck. But now, I need to get into specifics: >> > >> >I need a mobo that still has one ISA slot because I have a SCSI CD-burner which I >> >don't want to retire yet. (Of course, if there is such a thing as a PCI based SCSI >> >adapter, I won't worry about the mobo having an ISA slot.) -- Any suggestions? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >Rafe McAuliffe wrote: >> > >> >> I had the same thing with the old V3 3000, no changing drivers, they >> >> worked with everything. But those days are gone now. >> >> >> >> I'd suggest keeping your V5 (you seem pretty happy with it) and >> >> getting an Athlon/DDR RAM combo. In 6mths or more, GF3 prices will >> >> have dropped a lot and you'll pick up a bargain. >> >> >> >> I'd suggest you get a tbird/athlon XP (or a P4 if you prefer Intel) >> >> over the cheaper versions (Duron and Celeron). Sim racing uses the L2 >> >> cache very heavily, and this is a big advantage with these chips. >> >> >> >> Oh, and Rambus (Or usually RDRAM) is the ram made specifically for >> >> P4's. You won't see any real difference in sims or other 3D stuff ATM, >> >> but if you believe Intel hype then you're "investing in the future". >> >> I'd suggest save your dollars, it costs 4 times as much. >> >> >> >> Rafe Mc >> >> >> >> On Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:14:59 -0500, BRH <[email hidden]> wrote: >> >> >> >> >Thanks for that detailed reply MadDAWG. >> >> > >> >> >You make a good point about RAM prices. I have PC100 now, but I agree that >> >> >perhaps I should just ditch it. I'm not locked into Intel, but could you be >> >> >more specific on your point about RAMBUS. (By "Intel" do you mean Intel mobos, >> >> >or CPU's?) >> >> > >> >> >The reason I want to keep using the Voodoo5 is twofold (and I don't say this to >> >> >start a flame war....) >> >> > >> >> >1. I like using the Glide wrapper in GPL. Lots more visibility in the mirrors >> >> >-- and I need it when I'm being lapped. LOL. >> >> > >> >> >2. My impression from various posts is that the Nvidia drivers are constantly >> >> >being tweaked to run various sims -- F12K1 in particular. I've found that the >> >> >V5 works with almost anything right from the get-go. >> >> > >> >> >Thanks again for your thoughts. >> >> > >> >> >Bert >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >MadDAWG wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> Well here is my theroy on upgrading. Figure out how much you have to spend >> >> >> and buy the best you can with that amount. If you want to stay with your V5 >> >> >> thats fine, but why limit your cpu to match your video card? The cpu does >> >> >> other things besides graphics like AI calculations, networking functions, >> >> >> etc. Reusing your ram may be you biggest problem since you didn't post what >> >> >> speed it is. If its anything less than pc133 you will limit your choices >> >> >> when it comes to current setups. If its PC133 then you you should be ok. >> >> >> Also if you want Intel then your ram is a real problem due to most of the >> >> >> Intel setups are for RAMBUS. If you were to go AMD you can pick up 256 meg >> >> >> of PC2100 (266mhz DDR) for $40 USD, so its not really worth limiting your >> >> >> choices to save some old ram IMO. AS far as brands go I have had really good >> >> >> luck with ASUS mother boards myself and won't use anything, but execpt for >> >> >> an ABIT maybe. As far as Intel vs. AMD you can make your own choice there, >> >> >> but a AMD system will usally run you less money and give you better >> >> >> performance and simular systems. For example on 3dmark2001 my AMD 1.4 T-bird >> >> >> with a geforce2 card outruns a P4 1.7 with the same Geforce2 card. >> >> >> >> >> >> Here is my typical frame rates for the games I run with my GF2 1.4-tbird 512 >> >> >> ddr ram GF2 combo. >> >> >> >> >> >> GPL with track and car graphical impovements. 35-36 with a short dip to 30 >> >> >> at start. [1280 res 2xFSAA, D3D] >> >> >> N4 30 at start, 45 -60 in traffic, up to 100 alone [1280 ers, 2xFSAA, >> >> >> OpenGL] >> >> >> NH 58.4 in benchark [1280 res no FSAA} >> >> >> >> >> >> MadDAWG

Rafe McAuliffe wrote: > > Nope, that's just AMD's marketing label. They'll work with Windows 3.1 > if you wanted to use it :) > > I wouldn't want Windows XP either, that whole "authorisation code" > thing stinks. I change my hardware too often for that stuff. That got cracked like the day after XP was released. ;-) -- Fester

[email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote in <[email hidden]>: >There certainly is a pci scsi adapter, I have one myself. Only $20 >Aust (or $10US). I'd suggest getting the Epox EP8kha+, loads of >features for a cheap price. The mobo of choice even for Anandtech.com. >Coupled with an AthlonXP CPU and you'll be laughing. The 1800+ is >already faster than the 2.0ghz P4, the 1900+ is even faster. Hey Raif. I've just about completed a box with the EP8kha+/Athlon 1700, just waiting for the GF3 card to arrive. Don't know why I'd want to cheap out on a sound card after the money I've spent so far, but I was thinking of trying the onboard sound and game port before I bought one. Have you tried it? -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C. GPLRank -15.27 MonsterRank 91.34 Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

On Sun, 18 Nov 2001 16:15:41 GMT, [email hidden] (Don Scurlock) wrote:

Quoted text (13 lines)

>[email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) wrote in ><[email hidden]>: > >>There certainly is a pci scsi adapter, I have one myself. Only $20 >>Aust (or $10US). I'd suggest getting the Epox EP8kha+, loads of >>features for a cheap price. The mobo of choice even for Anandtech.com. >>Coupled with an AthlonXP CPU and you'll be laughing. The 1800+ is >>already faster than the 2.0ghz P4, the 1900+ is even faster. > >Hey Raif. I've just about completed a box with the EP8kha+/Athlon 1700, just >waiting for the GF3 card to arrive. Don't know why I'd want to cheap out on a >sound card after the money I've spent so far, but I was thinking of trying the >onboard sound and game port before I bought one. Have you tried it?

I haven't actually built that PC yet, just basing my opinions on reviews I've read. I've tried the onboard sound on my Iwill board, it's not too bad for cheap sound. Does most of the basic things, even supports 3d effects, EAX, etc. But if you want to listen to CDs or MP3s, get a normal soundcard. You get buzzing, interference and other stuff, I didn't use it for very long before my SBLive was back in action. Rafe Mc