Sort of OT: X Box

Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it was Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500 bundle with three games and an accessory. But it turns out they only had three of the four games I wanted, and I needed an extra controller anyway, so it all worked out well. I think the bundle actually ended up being a bit more than the separate pieces, but not enough to care about. I bought Halo, Dead or Alive 3, and NASCAR Heat 2002. I also wanted to get Project Gotham Racing, but they didn't have it in stock. Anyway I guess the only thing people here are going to care about is Heat. I really liked it! I never really got into the PC version, but the X Box version is really nice. I doubt that there are any serious differences, its just the overall presentation is better, and there's something about being able to play it on my TV while sitting on my couch that just makes it more fun. Also it was nice to have the 2002 updates, including the Dodge cars, since I work for DaimlerChrysler and we weren't represented in the PC version of Heat. The biggest surprise was that the controllers worked far better than I thought they would. The two triggers are analog, and by default are mapped to throttle (right) and brake (left). That means simultaneous brake and throttle are possible, which really helps on turn entry (left finger braking!). Having to steer with the thumbstick is definitely taking some practice, but I think I will get it eventually. All in all the X Box is a very impressive system. There are a lot of really nice features that I haven't bothered to mention. Kicks the PS2's ass!

I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processor with 64MB RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where to clamp near my couch <g> "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ej0J7.32046$[email hidden]... > Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it was > Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500 bundle with > three games and an accessory.

Hmmmm....don't know, but I'll hazard a guess. No WINDOWS! ;-) SB "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Qv0J7.35757$[email hidden]... > I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processor with 64MB > RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where to clamp near my > couch <g>

nope, it's the OS in those things are actually based on Windows 2000 ... I can't wait for mine to get here ... Phillip "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1M0J7.46520$[email hidden]... > Hmmmm....don't know, but I'll hazard a guess. No WINDOWS! ;-) > > SB > > "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:Qv0J7.35757$[email hidden]... > > I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processor with64MB > > RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where to clampnear my > > couch <g> > >

Is the XBOX wheel out yet?

Comparing it to a PC misses the point. Sure there is PC hardware in there, but it should not be thought of as an anemic PC, it should be thought of as a console on steroids. It's not intended to compete with PC's, it's intended to blow all the other consoles out of the water, and it succeeds at that quite well. Of course, if you don't like consoles then yes, you will be much happier with a good PC. And for serious racing of course a PC and a good wheel is still better. But OTOH for some simple, relaxed fun, a good driving game in split screen mode on a console can also be very nice. To each his/her own. ;o) "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Qv0J7.35757$[email hidden]... > I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processor with64MB > RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where to clampnear my > couch <g> > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Ej0J7.32046$[email hidden]... > > Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it was > > Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500 bundlewith > > three games and an accessory. > > >

the Sound system is the XBOX is far better than in a PC, it's equivalent to 2 Sblive + 1 more DSP. "David L. Cook" wrote:

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> I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processor with 64MB > RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where to clamp near my > couch <g> > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Ej0J7.32046$[email hidden]... > > Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it was > > Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500 bundle with > > three games and an accessory.

-- Sebastien TIXIER - Game Developer Dynamics and Car Physics http://www.eden-studios.fr GPLRank Normal:-44.24 Monster:-124.44

My boys are all for the console games. They have a Nintendo 64 and I can see where the split screen thing is a perk. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:892J7.32328$[email hidden]...

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> Comparing it to a PC misses the point. Sure there is PC hardware in > there, but it should not be thought of as an anemic PC, it should be > thought of as a console on steroids. It's not intended to compete with > PC's, it's intended to blow all the other consoles out of the water, and > it succeeds at that quite well. Of course, if you don't like consoles > then yes, you will be much happier with a good PC. And for serious > racing of course a PC and a good wheel is still better. But OTOH for > some simple, relaxed fun, a good driving game in split screen mode on a > console can also be very nice. To each his/her own. ;o) > > "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Qv0J7.35757$[email hidden]... > > I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processor with > 64MB > > RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where to clamp > near my > > couch <g> > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Ej0J7.32046$[email hidden]... > > > Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it was > > > Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500 bundle > with > > > three games and an accessory. > > > > > > >

Bet my Audigy + 5.1 Speakers would compete pretty well :) "Sebastien Tixier" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > the Sound system is the XBOX is far better than in a PC, it's equivalentto 2 > Sblive + 1 more DSP. > > "David L. Cook" wrote: > > > I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processor with64MB > > RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where to clampnear my > > couch <g> > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Ej0J7.32046$[email hidden]... > > > Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it was > > > Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500 bundlewith

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> > > three games and an accessory. > > -- > Sebastien TIXIER - Game Developer > Dynamics and Car Physics > http://www.eden-studios.fr > GPLRank Normal:-44.24 Monster:-124.44 > >

"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Qv0J7.35757$[email hidden]... > I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processor with64MB > RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where to clamp nearmy > couch <g> Yes, but the subsystem is more efficiently designed than the PC. That's true of all console systems and is why they can run games smoother on less beefy equipment.

But your PC doesn't have all it resources dedicated to one game. Thats what makes all the difference in my opinion. It is a dedicated gaming system. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Qv0J7.35757$[email hidden]... > I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processor with 64MB > RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where to clamp near my > couch <g> > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Ej0J7.32046$[email hidden]... > > Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it was > > Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500 bundle with > > three games and an accessory. > > >

Is there an gameport to hook up a wheel. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ej0J7.32046$[email hidden]... > Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it was > Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500 bundle with > three games and an accessory. But it turns out they only had three of > the four games I wanted, and I needed an extra controller anyway, so it > all worked out well. I think the bundle actually ended up being a bit > more than the separate pieces, but not enough to care about. I bought > Halo, Dead or Alive 3, and NASCAR Heat 2002. I also wanted to get > Project Gotham Racing, but they didn't have it in stock. Anyway I guess > the only thing people here are going to care about is Heat. I really > liked it! I never really got into the PC version, but the X Box version > is really nice. I doubt that there are any serious differences, its > just the overall presentation is better, and there's something about > being able to play it on my TV while sitting on my couch that just makes > it more fun. Also it was nice to have the 2002 updates, including the > Dodge cars, since I work for DaimlerChrysler and we weren't represented > in the PC version of Heat. The biggest surprise was that the > controllers worked far better than I thought they would. The two > triggers are analog, and by default are mapped to throttle (right) and > brake (left). That means simultaneous brake and throttle are possible, > which really helps on turn entry (left finger braking!). Having to > steer with the thumbstick is definitely taking some practice, but I > think I will get it eventually. All in all the X Box is a very > impressive system. There are a lot of really nice features that I > haven't bothered to mention. Kicks the PS2's ass! >

Not to start a console war ... >I also wanted to get >Project Gotham Racing, but they didn't have it in stock. It looks beautiful from the shots I've seen. However... It is apparently similar (though no doubt advanced and superior to) Metropolis Street Racer which I have on my Dreamcast. Some love this title, but it did nothing for me. Trust me, real sim-types will find it very very arcadish. Far moreso than NFS:PU (which I do like). Basically, you street race various cars on short circuits in Tokyo, SF, London and (for this new release) NYC. MSR's physics was extremely arcadish. You "power slide" and handbrake your way around the course against AI that smashes into things and magically accelerates when behind. It is challenging, but that's because of super-fast AI, not because of real-world physics or intelligent AI. >All in all the X Box is a very >impressive system. There are a lot of really nice features that I >haven't bothered to mention. Kicks the PS2's ass! Here's the war part :-) Its hardware appears to be a lot more powerful than the PS2's, which bodes well for the potential of future releases. But is it really apparent in the actual releases? Maybe Gotham Racing has graphics to match GT3, but for now GT3 is the most amazing console racer (the graphics, not AI or racing). I do agree that a quick turn-it-on, play on your TV, split-screen with friends has a lot of appeal.

i heard about a XBoxPlug<->USB converter. Mike Grandy wrote:

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> Is there an gameport to hook up a wheel. > > -- > Mike Grandy > www.precision-racing.com > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Ej0J7.32046$[email hidden]... > > Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it was > > Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500 bundle with > > three games and an accessory. But it turns out they only had three of > > the four games I wanted, and I needed an extra controller anyway, so it > > all worked out well. I think the bundle actually ended up being a bit > > more than the separate pieces, but not enough to care about. I bought > > Halo, Dead or Alive 3, and NASCAR Heat 2002. I also wanted to get > > Project Gotham Racing, but they didn't have it in stock. Anyway I guess > > the only thing people here are going to care about is Heat. I really > > liked it! I never really got into the PC version, but the X Box version > > is really nice. I doubt that there are any serious differences, its > > just the overall presentation is better, and there's something about > > being able to play it on my TV while sitting on my couch that just makes > > it more fun. Also it was nice to have the 2002 updates, including the > > Dodge cars, since I work for DaimlerChrysler and we weren't represented > > in the PC version of Heat. The biggest surprise was that the > > controllers worked far better than I thought they would. The two > > triggers are analog, and by default are mapped to throttle (right) and > > brake (left). That means simultaneous brake and throttle are possible, > > which really helps on turn entry (left finger braking!). Having to > > steer with the thumbstick is definitely taking some practice, but I > > think I will get it eventually. All in all the X Box is a very > > impressive system. There are a lot of really nice features that I > > haven't bothered to mention. Kicks the PS2's ass! > >

-- Sebastien TIXIER - Game Developer Dynamics and Car Physics http://www.eden-studios.fr GPLRank Normal:-44.24 Monster:-124.44

That might be the case, bu that would be bad for gameport users. There are no good gameport to USB adapters on the market. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Sebastien Tixier" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > i heard about a XBoxPlug<->USB converter. > > Mike Grandy wrote: > > > Is there an gameport to hook up a wheel. > > > > -- > > Mike Grandy > > www.precision-racing.com > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Ej0J7.32046$[email hidden]... > > > Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it was > > > Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500 bundle with > > > three games and an accessory. But it turns out they only had three of > > > the four games I wanted, and I needed an extra controller anyway, so it > > > all worked out well. I think the bundle actually ended up being a bit > > > more than the separate pieces, but not enough to care about. I bought > > > Halo, Dead or Alive 3, and NASCAR Heat 2002. I also wanted to get > > > Project Gotham Racing, but they didn't have it in stock. Anyway I guess > > > the only thing people here are going to care about is Heat. I really > > > liked it! I never really got into the PC version, but the X Box version > > > is really nice. I doubt that there are any serious differences, its > > > just the overall presentation is better, and there's something about > > > being able to play it on my TV while sitting on my couch that just makes > > > it more fun. Also it was nice to have the 2002 updates, including the > > > Dodge cars, since I work for DaimlerChrysler and we weren't represented > > > in the PC version of Heat. The biggest surprise was that the > > > controllers worked far better than I thought they would. The two > > > triggers are analog, and by default are mapped to throttle (right) and > > > brake (left). That means simultaneous brake and throttle are possible, > > > which really helps on turn entry (left finger braking!). Having to > > > steer with the thumbstick is definitely taking some practice, but I > > > think I will get it eventually. All in all the X Box is a very > > > impressive system. There are a lot of really nice features that I > > > haven't bothered to mention. Kicks the PS2's ass! > > > > > -- > Sebastien TIXIER - Game Developer > Dynamics and Car Physics > http://www.eden-studios.fr > GPLRank Normal:-44.24 Monster:-124.44 > >

On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 04:49:53 GMT, "Phillip Malphrus, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote: >nope, it's the OS in those things are actually based on Windows 2000 ... I >can't wait for mine to get here ... The OS MS won't provide decent support for it's own FF wheel on? chuckle. -Scott Johnson "There is nothing, I think, more unfortunate than to have soft, chubby, fat-looking children who go to watch their school play basketball every Saturday and regard that as their week's exercise." - John F. Kennedy, 1962

There is no standard gameport or USB ports, it only has the proprietary X Box game controller ports. I believe wheels are being developed to use with it, and I would think that Act Labs users will eventually get an adapter. There is also a really neat looking wheel being developed by Gamester that, due to its free-standing design, makes a lot more sense for a console box. But to answer what I think you are asking, I doubt that you will ever be able to use an existing gameport wheel with the X Box. "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:yQ8J7.62730$[email hidden]...

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> Is there an gameport to hook up a wheel. > > > -- > Mike Grandy > www.precision-racing.com > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Ej0J7.32046$[email hidden]... > > Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it was > > Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500 bundle

with > > three games and an accessory. But it turns out they only had threeof > > the four games I wanted, and I needed an extra controller anyway, soit > > all worked out well. I think the bundle actually ended up being abit > > more than the separate pieces, but not enough to care about. Ibought > > Halo, Dead or Alive 3, and NASCAR Heat 2002. I also wanted to get > > Project Gotham Racing, but they didn't have it in stock. Anyway Iguess > > the only thing people here are going to care about is Heat. Ireally > > liked it! I never really got into the PC version, but the X Boxversion > > is really nice. I doubt that there are any serious differences, its > > just the overall presentation is better, and there's something about > > being able to play it on my TV while sitting on my couch that justmakes > > it more fun. Also it was nice to have the 2002 updates, includingthe > > Dodge cars, since I work for DaimlerChrysler and we weren'trepresented > > in the PC version of Heat. The biggest surprise was that the > > controllers worked far better than I thought they would. The two > > triggers are analog, and by default are mapped to throttle (right)and > > brake (left). That means simultaneous brake and throttle arepossible,

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> > which really helps on turn entry (left finger braking!). Having to > > steer with the thumbstick is definitely taking some practice, but I > > think I will get it eventually. All in all the X Box is a very > > impressive system. There are a lot of really nice features that I > > haven't bothered to mention. Kicks the PS2's ass! > > > >

On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:31:14 -0500, "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processor with 64MB >RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where to clamp near my >couch <g> Well, to be fair, it's estimate that the EFFECTIVE performance of a console is at least twice that of a similarly equiped PC. That's solely from the benefit of being able to highly optimize the software for specific hardware (especially the graphics card). Then there are further hardware benefits, where the memory and I/O buses and so on tend to be a lot more tightly integrated on a console. So in practice, the XBOX probably has the equivalent performance of about a 1.5 - 2Ghz PC with a GeForce 3.

Can you play an X-Box game in a PC with the 'same' basic hardware? Andi. "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JP8J7.62721$[email hidden]... > But your PC doesn't have all it resources dedicated to one game. Thatswhat

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> makes all the difference in my opinion. It is a dedicated gaming system. > > > -- > Mike Grandy > www.precision-racing.com > "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:Qv0J7.35757$[email hidden]... > > I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processor with > 64MB > > RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where to clamp

near

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> my > > couch <g> > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Ej0J7.32046$[email hidden]... > > > Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it was > > > Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500 bundle

with > > > three games and an accessory. > > > > > > > >

> The OS MS won't provide decent support for it's own FF wheel on? What's the problem with the Sidewinder FF Wheel? Jone.

I doubt it, but it does appear like an X Box game can be ported to the PC with minimal effort, and that a lot of them eventually will be. In fact this could be a real boon to PC gamers, because the X Box is a stable development platform, unlike the PC. So developers could get their game up and running and thoroughly tested on an X Box first, and then port it to a PC and "only" have to worry about compatibility issues. ;o) "Andi Cole" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9t3oe3$asu$[email hidden]...

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> Can you play an X-Box game in a PC with the 'same' basic hardware? > > Andi. > > "Mike Grandy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:JP8J7.62721$[email hidden]... > > But your PC doesn't have all it resources dedicated to one game.

Thats > what > > makes all the difference in my opinion. It is a dedicated gamingsystem.

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> > > > > > -- > > Mike Grandy > > www.precision-racing.com > > "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:Qv0J7.35757$[email hidden]... > > > I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processor

with > > 64MB > > > RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where toclamp

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> near > > my > > > couch <g> > > > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:Ej0J7.32046$[email hidden]... > > > > Well I ran out and got one. The only place that I could find it

was > > > > Electronics Boutique, and they would only sell it in a $500bundle

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> with > > > > three games and an accessory. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

The other cool thing is that since all X Boxes are identical, the developers know exactly what hardware you have and can optimize it accordingly. So you have some assurance that any X Box game will perform well. And since the graphics chip is essentially a GF3 Ti, all the visual bells and whistles are there too. "Joe62" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:31:14 -0500, "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >I don't get it. A box with an NVidia chip and a 733Mhz processorwith 64MB > >RAM. My PC is better than that - and my wheel has no where to clampnear my

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> >couch <g> > > Well, to be fair, it's estimate that the EFFECTIVE performance of a > console is at least twice that of a similarly equiped PC. That's > solely from the benefit of being able to highly optimize the software > for specific hardware (especially the graphics card). Then there are > further hardware benefits, where the memory and I/O buses and so on > tend to be a lot more tightly integrated on a console. > > So in practice, the XBOX probably has the equivalent performance of > about a 1.5 - 2Ghz PC with a GeForce 3.

>"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote > There is no standard gameport or USB ports, it only has the proprietary > X Box game controller ports. That's logical, no way Microsoft would had released the X box with a standard gameport or USB port. Anybody could plug in their own wheel, and that doesn't make money <G>. They can now sell licenses for manufacturers to create their own material for that console. Btw, why do they sell Memory cards for the X-box when it has a 10GB harddisk in it? Am I misled? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:55:15 GMT, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote: >The other cool thing is that since all X Boxes are identical, the >developers know exactly what hardware you have and can optimize it >accordingly. I thought someone said that already ... ;-)

The memory cards insert into the controllers, and the purpose of them is to allow you to save your game on your X Box and then take it with you when you want to play on someone else's. They are not necessary for normal game saves as there is plenty of room on the hard drive for that. Since none of the games I have tried so far actually install themselves on the hard drive, it appears that you have the entire 10 gig to use for saved games and ripped music. "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:D6gJ7.41986$[email hidden]... > >"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Btw, why do they sell Memory cards for the X-box when it has a 10GBharddisk > in it? Am I misled? >

Hehe, sorry, I guess I'm just getting too excited about this thing. ;o) "Joe62" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 20:55:15 GMT, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >The other cool thing is that since all X Boxes are identical, the > >developers know exactly what hardware you have and can optimize it > >accordingly. > > I thought someone said that already ... ;-)

lol, it's called "he doesn't know what he is talking about" syndrome ... "Jone Tytlandsvik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9t3r9i$7afn$[email hidden]...

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> > > The OS MS won't provide decent support for it's own FF wheel on? > > What's the problem with the Sidewinder FF Wheel? > > Jone. > >

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>Comparing it to a PC misses the point. Sure there is PC hardware in >there, but it should not be thought of as an anemic PC, it should be >thought of as a console on steroids. It's not intended to compete with >PC's, it's intended to blow all the other consoles out of the water, and >it succeeds at that quite well. Of course, if you don't like consoles >then yes, you will be much happier with a good PC. And for serious >racing of course a PC and a good wheel is still better. But OTOH for >some simple, relaxed fun, a good driving game in split screen mode on a >console can also be very nice. To each his/her own. ;o)

Playing split screen Super Mario Kart on a 80" projection TV all night was a blast :0) Todd Wasson --- Performance Simulations Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction Software http://PerformanceSimulations.Com

MS doesn't support their controller hardware users, that's the problem... -Larry "Jone Tytlandsvik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9t3r9i$7afn$[email hidden]...

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> > > The OS MS won't provide decent support for it's own FF wheel on? > > What's the problem with the Sidewinder FF Wheel? > > Jone. > >

Sure he does. Anyone who uses SideWinder devices and have graduated beyond Win9x knows exactly what he's referring to. -Larry "Phillip Malphrus, Jr." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bwmJ7.47895$[email hidden]...

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> lol, it's called "he doesn't know what he is talking about" syndrome ... > > "Jone Tytlandsvik" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9t3r9i$7afn$[email hidden]... > > > > > The OS MS won't provide decent support for it's own FF wheel on? > > > > What's the problem with the Sidewinder FF Wheel? > > > > Jone. > > > > > >

> Anyone who uses SideWinder devices and have graduated beyond Win9x knows > exactly what he's referring to. Well I don't. Probably because I have managed to not go near a Win9x systems in the last couple of years. So tell us what it is about. Do you have more stuff you kan adjust in W98? Jone.

LOL! Now that's a good driving game! ;o) And the mere thought of playing games on an 80 inch screen makes me drool. "J. Todd Wasson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Playing split screen Super Mario Kart on a 80" projection TV allnight was a > blast :0) >