Re: OT... What is 3DMark 2001???

It's a benchmarking program that looks simply amazing. There is a Matrix-like scene that can be played with full sound and music. Very impressive. Easy to use. Get it here: www.madonion.com -- Joe Marques "Warlock!" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > And how do I measure my system? Is it a program that you run and it > checks your machine's performance? > > If so, where do I get it? > > > Warlock! >

"Warlock!" wrote: > > And how do I measure my system? Is it a program that you run and it > checks your machine's performance? > > If so, where do I get it? http://www.madonion.com/ I have a feeling it might be a bit biased towards nVIDIA cards, but at least you can use it to test different settings on your PC against each other and such... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

I will never ever understand people who own a computer but can't do the simple things like typing 3D Mark 2001 into a search engine. Oh well.... Morgan

And how do I measure my system? Is it a program that you run and it checks your machine's performance? If so, where do I get it? Warlock!

This coming from a guy who is MORE than slightly biased AGAINST nVIDIA cards. ;-P LOL Scott PA-Scott "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > "Warlock!" wrote: > > > > And how do I measure my system? Is it a program that you run and it > > checks your machine's performance? > > > > If so, where do I get it? > > http://www.madonion.com/ > > I have a feeling it might be a bit biased towards nVIDIA cards, but at > least you can use it to test different settings on your PC against each > other and such... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Yeah, it unfairly takes advantage of all those damn new fangled features. Give me 2D sprites I tell ya! ;0) -- Joe Marques "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I have a feeling it might be a bit biased towards nVIDIA cards, but at > least you can use it to test different settings on your PC against each > other and such... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy

I tried the Raedon 8500 and the NVidia Ti500 and 3DMark 2001 gave the Raedon 8500 a better score... "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I have a feeling it might be a bit biased towards nVIDIA cards, but at > least you can use it to test different settings on your PC against each > other and such...

www.madonion.com Andi. "Warlock!" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> And how do I measure my system? Is it a program that you run and it > checks your machine's performance? > > If so, where do I get it? > > > Warlock! >

Thanks for taking the time and replying to my post though! Don't know if I coulda found it without you, Morgan! :) I guess I just don't understand why people whine about such trivial things. Wait! I'll type it into a search engine. Ok... lessee... A-n-a-l (space) R-e-t-e-n-t-i-v-e Hey, whaddya know? It works! j/k, Morgan... Warlock! Morgan Boof wrote: > I will never ever understand people who own a computer but can't do the > simple things like typing 3D Mark 2001 into a search engine. > > Oh well.... > > Morgan

"David L. Cook" wrote: > > I tried the Raedon 8500 and the NVidia Ti500 and 3DMark 2001 gave the Raedon > 8500 a better score... Oki, I just noticed when I did a bit of bench marking a good while that even though a card scored worse than another in 3DMark, it might still run NHeat and MBTR, which I used to have some actual sims to compare with, just as well as the card which scored better in 3DMark, which more often than not was an nVidia based card, and I talked to another hardware enthusiast about it, and he was of the same opinion.... Guess all card manufacturers now writes drivers to score well in 3DMark and Quake 3, hopefully they'll soon write drivers which will give us better performance in games as well....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

Joe Marques wrote: > > Yeah, it unfairly takes advantage of all those damn new fangled features. > Give me 2D sprites I tell ya! ;0) Pffffft, give me DOS 3.0 Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

"Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > This coming from a guy who is MORE than slightly biased AGAINST nVIDIA > cards. ;-P Actually, I'm not against their CARDS, I'm against their way of doing business Not sure what to compare it with, but probably something like this I build and sell computers for a living, and if the customer insists he can have an nVidia card installed :-), so to outsell everyone else in town, I would choose good parts for my computers but slap them together somewhat haphazardly and sort of install Win 3.11 on them, and as time goes by I'll tell them to bring them back so I can install Win95 on them, then Win95 B, then Win95 C, Win98, Win98SE and then finally WinME and put in the rest of the retaining screws for the lid or something, and since we all know that WinME doesn't work all that well on all systems, I'll tell my customers to go back to Win98SE if their system doesn't run stable with WinME.....but first I tell everyone that has bought my computers over the last 5 years or so, sure, go ahead and install WinME to see if it helps their problem And because when they are working, which is every leap year or something, my customers will brag about having the fastest PC in town, and because I cut some corners installing the software I can produce my PC's at fairly low price.....and because I had some financial backing I can do this until I drive the others out of business And THEN, when another company starts up here in town, I wait around until they're just about ready to start selling a possibly better product, I tell all my customers to install the free Win2000 upgrade, which I've been sitting on for quite some time, as this will boost both performance and reliability to kingdom come.....which is only true if your PC is fairly recent and well put together to begin with.....and then SP1 and SP2 etc etc Doesn't mean my customers got the best possible product, doesn't even mean they got the best product in town, and before anyone asks, yes, 99% of the "gaming" PC's we build come with nVidia cards these days, because for a long while that was the only serious option For some strange reason people attack Intel and Microsoft for being monopolistic and putting out "less than perfect" products, but because nVidia gives them another 200 points or something extra in 3DMark or another 5fps in Q3, then it's ok for them to use the same tactics, get the product on the market, we'll fix the bugs later Anyways.....you were saying ? :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

Morgan Boof wrote: > > I will never ever understand people who own a computer but can't do the > simple things like typing 3D Mark 2001 into a search engine. > > Oh well.... And I'll never understand why people who find the time to tell people to use a search engine, but doesn't bother to help people out with a simple URL, it would have looked a lot less harsh if you had posted the URL and then posted the URL to a couple of good search engines with a brief explanation on how to use them properly Just because someone has a computer, races sims on it and has found this NG doesn't mean they *have* to be experienced in the use of internet help tools you know :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

I was saying for someone who builds computers for the public you don't know much! =P LOLOL I've owned 3 nVidia cards since I last owned a 3dfx or other brand and I have not had a single issue using them on Win98SE or Win2K Pro. There are numerous drivers from which to choose... some approved, some not.. but they are there if you so choose. All have worked flawlessly. -- Scott B. Husted ICQ# 4395450 http://www.Husted.cc "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > > > This coming from a guy who is MORE than slightly biased AGAINST nVIDIA > > cards. ;-P > > Actually, I'm not against their CARDS, I'm against their way of doing > business > > Not sure what to compare it with, but probably something like this > > I build and sell computers for a living, and if the customer insists he > can have an nVidia card installed :-), so to outsell everyone else in > town, I would choose good parts for my computers but slap them together > somewhat haphazardly and sort of install Win 3.11 on them, and as time > goes by I'll tell them to bring them back so I can install Win95 on > them, then Win95 B, then Win95 C, Win98, Win98SE and then finally WinME > and put in the rest of the retaining screws for the lid or something, > and since we all know that WinME doesn't work all that well on all > systems, I'll tell my customers to go back to Win98SE if their system > doesn't run stable with WinME.....but first I tell everyone that has > bought my computers over the last 5 years or so, sure, go ahead and > install WinME to see if it helps their problem > > And because when they are working, which is every leap year or > something, my customers will brag about having the fastest PC in town, > and because I cut some corners installing the software I can produce my > PC's at fairly low price.....and because I had some financial backing I > can do this until I drive the others out of business > > And THEN, when another company starts up here in town, I wait around > until they're just about ready to start selling a possibly better > product, I tell all my customers to install the free Win2000 upgrade, > which I've been sitting on for quite some time, as this will boost both > performance and reliability to kingdom come.....which is only true if > your PC is fairly recent and well put together to begin with.....and > then SP1 and SP2 etc etc > > Doesn't mean my customers got the best possible product, doesn't even > mean they got the best product in town, and before anyone asks, yes, 99% > of the "gaming" PC's we build come with nVidia cards these days, because > for a long while that was the only serious option > > For some strange reason people attack Intel and Microsoft for being > monopolistic and putting out "less than perfect" products, but because > nVidia gives them another 200 points or something extra in 3DMark or > another 5fps in Q3, then it's ok for them to use the same tactics, get > the product on the market, we'll fix the bugs later > > Anyways.....you were saying ? :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" > --Groucho Marx--

Yeah, thank god ATI released a perfect example of what vid cards should be. That Radeon 8500 was shipped only after they enabled all the onboard features and final drivers for it. P.S. Those with sarcasm detectors, i apologize. Please send copies of the repair bills to my e-mail addy for full compensation. Sorry Goy, but unless ive indulged in too many beers and cheers, i seem to remember this same type of discussion with every vid card and most software ever invented. I wont even bother comparing flawed product release with the automotive industry. If ya really want to own something trouble free and unchanged in basic design, invest in Pez dispensers ! As usual, thanks fer listening :)

GMpartsguy wrote:

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> > Yeah, thank god ATI released a perfect example of what vid cards should be. > That Radeon 8500 was shipped only after they enabled all the onboard > features and final drivers for it. > P.S. Those with sarcasm detectors, i apologize. Please send copies of the > repair bills to my e-mail addy for full compensation. > Sorry Goy, but unless ive indulged in too many beers and cheers, i seem to > remember this same type of discussion with every vid card and most software > ever invented. > I wont even bother comparing flawed product release with the automotive > industry. If ya really want to own something trouble free and unchanged in > basic design, invest in Pez dispensers ! As usual, thanks fer listening :)

Actually, I didn't even mention ATI's latest release as I think it's just another example of letting paying customers do your beta testing, but there you go, I'm just happy that nVidia has gotten some serious competition, maybe that'll get them both to improve on their tradition when it comes to drivers.... Yeah, I know, some day I'll win the lottery Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

"Scott B. Husted" wrote:

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> > I was saying for someone who builds computers for the public you don't know > much! =P LOLOL > > I've owned 3 nVidia cards since I last owned a 3dfx or other brand and I > have not had a single issue using them on Win98SE or Win2K Pro. There are > numerous drivers from which to choose... some approved, some not.. but they > are there if you so choose. All have worked flawlessly.

Well, aren't you the lucky one, we build a couple of hundred systems every year and I'm the one who does most of the tech support..... "Hello, how may I help you" "Hey, we bought this computer just two weeks ago and "so and so" games won't run" "Ok, there's a new driver out from nVidia, have you tried installing that one" "What's a driver......" <sigh> "Ok, what you need to do is <insert appropriate explanation here>, see if that helps" "Ok thx" --- one hour later --- "Hi it's me again" "Sorry, who is this again" "Me with the PC problems" <sigh> "Ok, please remind me again, what problems were you having" "so and so games won't work and you told me to DL and install the latest driver and it didn't help" "Ok, what we're gonna do now is to try an install an older driver and see if that helps, if you come down to the shop I'll have them on a CD for you or you can DL them from this web site" etc etc, but with a bit of luck we'll soon find a driver which works for their PC, then they DL and run 3DMark or some other BM tool, and we get another phone call "Hey, that driver you told me to install slowed my PC by almost 10% in Q3, I can now only get 85 fps ......." <big sigh> I miss DOS, all we had to worry about then was Config.sys, Autoexec.bat, XMS, EMS, Smartdrive, Memmaker, conventional memory, mousedrivers and drivers for your soundcard and you were all set, unless you wanted to play "Aces over Europe" of course, in which case you needed at least 605k of conventional memory.........oh never mind Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I have a feeling it might be a bit biased towards nVIDIA cards, but at > least you can use it to test different settings on your PC against each > other and such... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy

No....the R8500 gets better benchmarks than the GF3 Ti 500 on 3D Mark 2001. It's the games where the 8500 usually falls behind. All 3D Mark is really good for is benchmarking your own system as you try various tweaks, new drivers etc. That way you can easily tell if the new drivers and tweaks improve performance or not.

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well, aren't you the lucky one, we build a couple of hundred systems > every year and I'm the one who does most of the tech support..... > > "Hello, how may I help you" > > "Hey, we bought this computer just two weeks ago and "so and so" games > won't run" > > "Ok, there's a new driver out from nVidia, have you tried installing > that one"

Well, that's better than a customer who has an ATI card and calls up with the same problem. "Sorry, you are shit out of luck because there are no new drivers".

Quite true, 3D Mark is purely a synthetic benchmark and has no direct relation to how well games will run. Manufacturers do optimise their drivers toward it because high scores sell well. We need them to take more notice of GPL and N4 frame rates for comparison. Maybe a timedemo of these would be a good tool for this. And yes, it is biased towards the GF3, mainly because it takes full advantage of all the DX8 features of it. Rafe Mc On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:35:35 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"David L. Cook" wrote: >> >> I tried the Raedon 8500 and the NVidia Ti500 and 3DMark 2001 gave the Raedon >> 8500 a better score... > >Oki, I just noticed when I did a bit of bench marking a good while that >even though a card scored worse than another in 3DMark, it might still >run NHeat and MBTR, which I used to have some actual sims to compare >with, just as well as the card which scored better in 3DMark, which more >often than not was an nVidia based card, and I talked to another >hardware enthusiast about it, and he was of the same opinion.... > >Guess all card manufacturers now writes drivers to score well in 3DMark >and Quake 3, hopefully they'll soon write drivers which will give us >better performance in games as well....:-) > > >Beers and cheers >(uncle) Goy > >http://www.theuspits.com >http://www.teammirage.com > >"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" >--Groucho Marx--

After testing those two cards I actually ended up buying the Ti200. Most bang for the buck IMHO. Funny thing is in Rally Trophy this card performs better at higher resolutions running 32-bit color. I get a better framerate at 1280x1024x32 (40-50fps) than I do at 1024x768x16 (30-40fps) go figure... I'm not complaining though! David Cook "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Quite true, 3D Mark is purely a synthetic benchmark and has no direct > relation to how well games will run. Manufacturers do optimise their > drivers toward it because high scores sell well. We need them to take > more notice of GPL and N4 frame rates for comparison. Maybe a timedemo > of these would be a good tool for this. > > And yes, it is biased towards the GF3, mainly because it takes full > advantage of all the DX8 features of it. > > Rafe Mc > > > On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 22:35:35 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >"David L. Cook" wrote: > >> > >> I tried the Raedon 8500 and the NVidia Ti500 and 3DMark 2001 gave the

Raedon

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> >> 8500 a better score... > > > >Oki, I just noticed when I did a bit of bench marking a good while that > >even though a card scored worse than another in 3DMark, it might still > >run NHeat and MBTR, which I used to have some actual sims to compare > >with, just as well as the card which scored better in 3DMark, which more > >often than not was an nVidia based card, and I talked to another > >hardware enthusiast about it, and he was of the same opinion.... > > > >Guess all card manufacturers now writes drivers to score well in 3DMark > >and Quake 3, hopefully they'll soon write drivers which will give us > >better performance in games as well....:-) > > > > > >Beers and cheers > >(uncle) Goy > > > >http://www.theuspits.com > >http://www.teammirage.com > > > >"A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" > >--Groucho Marx-- >

STP wrote:

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> > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Well, aren't you the lucky one, we build a couple of hundred systems > > every year and I'm the one who does most of the tech support..... > > > > "Hello, how may I help you" > > > > "Hey, we bought this computer just two weeks ago and "so and so" games > > won't run" > > > > "Ok, there's a new driver out from nVidia, have you tried installing > > that one" > > Well, that's better than a customer who has an ATI card and calls up with > the same problem. "Sorry, you are shit out of luck because there are no new > drivers".

Maybe.....but is it "good" ? Just because you do something a little better than someone else doesn't automatically make it a good product, seems to me like ATI is playing nVidia's own game, which is a shame really, but as long as there's some real competition out there.... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Rafe McAuliffe wrote: > > Quite true, 3D Mark is purely a synthetic benchmark and has no direct > relation to how well games will run. Manufacturers do optimise their > drivers toward it because high scores sell well. We need them to take > more notice of GPL and N4 frame rates for comparison. Maybe a timedemo > of these would be a good tool for this. Knew you were a smart guy Rafe.....:-), which is why I chose NHeat and MBTR, because the demos of both these games had that feature > And yes, it is biased towards the GF3, mainly because it takes full > advantage of all the DX8 features of it. Well, I guess I should have said that 3DMark is biased towards the same line of thinking that nVidia has, so rather than test for something useful, like how it will run my current crop of games, it tells me how some of my future games might run on one card vs another....:-), also, I do get a bit skeptical when one brand of computers has advertising on a benchmark....... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:06:22 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: >Actually, I'm not against their CARDS, I'm against their way of doing >business [snip] Aren't analogies supposed to be *simpler* than the actual situation? ;-) Tim

Tim O wrote:

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> > On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:06:22 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Actually, I'm not against their CARDS, I'm against their way of doing > >business > > [snip] > > Aren't analogies supposed to be *simpler* than the actual situation? > ;-)

Yes....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

3dmark2001 is aimed at DX8. That is why, if you are more concerned about current sims, the better benchmark would be 3dmark2000. The problem still with benchmarks, is, I can tweek my system and almost double my scores...but I don't use it at those settings. So If I want to trumpet how well my sytem works, I can choose a bunch of options in my vid card properties that will definately speed things up...but the visual cost means as soon as the test is over, I go back to my cleaner, better looking and slower-benchmarking settings. Which kinda defeats the purpose of a benchmark...... dave henrie "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> >> Well, I guess I should have said that 3DMark is biased towards the same > line of thinking that nVidia has, so rather than test for something > useful, like how it will run my current crop of games, it tells me how > some of my future games might run on one card vs another....:-), also, I > do get a bit skeptical when one brand of computers has advertising on a > benchmark....... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy

I have always benchmarked my system (3DMark or ?) using the real settings and apps. Eg. Virus scanner & firewall on. Seems silly to me to tweak for unrealistic speed. /Jens "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:cguJ7.39368$[email hidden]... > 3dmark2001 is aimed at DX8. That is why, if you are more concernedabout

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> current sims, the better benchmark would be 3dmark2000. > The problem still with benchmarks, is, I can tweek my system and almost > double my scores...but I don't use it at those settings. So If I want to > trumpet how well my sytem works, I can choose a bunch of options in my vid > card properties that will definately speed things up...but the visual cost > means as soon as the test is over, I go back to my cleaner, better looking > and slower-benchmarking settings. Which kinda defeats the purpose of a > benchmark...... > dave henrie

"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jDkJ7.45662$[email hidden]... > After testing those two cards I actually ended up buying the Ti200. Most > bang for the buck IMHO. Funny thing is in Rally Trophy this card performs > better at higher resolutions running 32-bit color. I get a betterframerate > at 1280x1024x32 (40-50fps) than I do at 1024x768x16 (30-40fps) gofigure... > I'm not complaining though! > > David Cook I had the same thing happen to me on MS Train sim on a GF2. Not 32bit, but at 1280x1024 it ran faster than at 1024x768. Goes against logic, but it really was faster.

"Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UVvJ7.875$[email hidden]... > I have always benchmarked my system (3DMark or ?) using the real settings > and apps. Eg. Virus scanner & firewall on. Seems silly to me to tweak for > unrealistic speed. > > /Jens You run your games with virus scanner and firewall on? You shouldn't, waste of resources. Get Enditall 2.0 and shut down all that stuff when running games. www.pcmag.com

LOL.. 605k?? Sheesh.. That would require some magic loading of devices in config.sys :) -Jacob PS. The most trouble I had was playing Strike Commander in dos, think I had to free up around 585 or 590k.. That was damn tricky.. Ahh the good ole days of having specific boot disk for specific games.. LOL "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Scott B. Husted" wrote: > > > > I was saying for someone who builds computers for the public you don'tknow > > much! =P LOLOL > > > > I've owned 3 nVidia cards since I last owned a 3dfx or other brand and I > > have not had a single issue using them on Win98SE or Win2K Pro. Thereare > > numerous drivers from which to choose... some approved, some not.. butthey

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> > are there if you so choose. All have worked flawlessly. > > Well, aren't you the lucky one, we build a couple of hundred systems > every year and I'm the one who does most of the tech support..... > > "Hello, how may I help you" > > "Hey, we bought this computer just two weeks ago and "so and so" games > won't run" > > "Ok, there's a new driver out from nVidia, have you tried installing > that one" > > "What's a driver......" > > <sigh> > > "Ok, what you need to do is <insert appropriate explanation here>, see > if that helps" > > "Ok thx" > --- > one hour later > --- > > "Hi it's me again" > > "Sorry, who is this again" > > "Me with the PC problems" > > <sigh> > > "Ok, please remind me again, what problems were you having" > > "so and so games won't work and you told me to DL and install the latest > driver and it didn't help" > > "Ok, what we're gonna do now is to try an install an older driver and > see if that helps, if you come down to the shop I'll have them on a CD > for you or you can DL them from this web site" > > etc etc, but with a bit of luck we'll soon find a driver which works for > their PC, then they DL and run 3DMark or some other BM tool, and we get > another phone call > > "Hey, that driver you told me to install slowed my PC by almost 10% in > Q3, I can now only get 85 fps ......." > > <big sigh> > > I miss DOS, all we had to worry about then was Config.sys, Autoexec.bat, > XMS, EMS, Smartdrive, Memmaker, conventional memory, mousedrivers and > drivers for your soundcard and you were all set, unless you wanted to > play "Aces over Europe" of course, in which case you needed at least > 605k of conventional memory.........oh never mind > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" > --Groucho Marx--

Jacob Butner wrote:

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> > LOL.. 605k?? Sheesh.. That would require some magic loading of devices in > config.sys :) > > -Jacob > > PS. The most trouble I had was playing Strike Commander in dos, think I had > to free up around 585 or 590k.. That was damn tricky.. Ahh the good ole > days of having specific boot disk for specific games.. LOL

Hiya Jake, don't you have a NG to nurse or something ? :-) Yeah, Aces over Europe was tricky, I was lucky I didn't have a Soundblaster card back then, had some MediaForte card or something, very small drivers, but with some serious settings in memmaker you could *just* make it, and boy was I happy when I got 4 extra 30 pin memory modules, bringing me up from 4 to 8 MB of RAM....... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Jacob Butner <jbutner@*REMOVE-MEsimracing.org> wrote in message news:9t66u3$7ql4$[email hidden]...

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> LOL.. 605k?? Sheesh.. That would require some magic loading of devices in > config.sys :) > > -Jacob > > PS. The most trouble I had was playing Strike Commander in dos, think I had > to free up around 585 or 590k.. That was damn tricky.. Ahh the good ole > days of having specific boot disk for specific games.. LOL

590k? Pah! F1GP needed 600000 bytes (586k), and my hand-written config files easily achieved something like 618k IIRC. Now, the ultimate evolution was my batch file system which, when you requested Descent for example (through 'games launcher' - "gl desc"): - swapped the config files to a totally stripped set (wasn't DOS/4GW wonderful? Conventional memory... what's that?) - rebooted - ran Descent (having first loaded a mouse driver) - on exit, asked for confirmation then swapped the config files back to the default - returned to the front-end menu, consisting of Windows (press W), DOS (press D) or reboot (R) I think I ended up with about six or seven different configs, for a variety of games plus a general one and a Windows one! Jonny

"Jacob Butner" <jbutner@*REMOVE-MEsimracing.org> wrote in message news:9t66u3$7ql4$[email hidden]... > LOL.. 605k?? Sheesh.. That would require some magic loading of devices in > config.sys :) > > -Jacob I think AOE was actually 612k. Not sure, but I do know it had the highest requirement for just about any dos game I ever owned.

STP wrote:

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> > "Jacob Butner" <jbutner@*REMOVE-MEsimracing.org> wrote in message > news:9t66u3$7ql4$[email hidden]... > > LOL.. 605k?? Sheesh.. That would require some magic loading of devices in > > config.sys :) > > > > -Jacob > > I think AOE was actually 612k. Not sure, but I do know it had the highest > requirement for just about any dos game I ever owned.

605...612, either way it forced me to look into boot menus....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

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> >No....the R8500 gets better benchmarks than the GF3 Ti 500 on 3D Mark 2001. >It's the games where the 8500 usually falls behind. All 3D Mark is really >good for is benchmarking your own system as you try various tweaks, new >drivers etc. That way you can easily tell if the new drivers and tweaks >improve performance or not. >

Very true, about the best use for it. Also good for stability testing when set to loop endlessly. Rafe Mc

>You run your games with virus scanner and firewall on? You shouldn't, waste >of resources. Get Enditall 2.0 and shut down all that stuff when running >games. > >www.pcmag.com >I agree with shutting down the virus scanner, but not the firewall. If you're on cable you shouldn't drop your security just because you're in a game. Rafe Mc

Amatuers....F15SE III needed about 605 to run, but if you wanted speech then you had to get up to 618.....I beleive the best I got was 619, but my modem bud somehow got 621 freed up... I had a double nested startup menu with custom configs for about 10 or 12 games...some with cdrom support, others without... dave henrie "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > STP wrote: > > > > "Jacob Butner" <jbutner@*REMOVE-MEsimracing.org> wrote in message > > news:9t66u3$7ql4$[email hidden]... > > > LOL.. 605k?? Sheesh.. That would require some magic loading of

devices in > > > config.sys :) > > > > > > -Jacob > > > > I think AOE was actually 612k. Not sure, but I do know it had thehighest

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> > requirement for just about any dos game I ever owned. > > 605...612, either way it forced me to look into boot menus....:-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

"STP" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:q0xJ7.66$[email hidden]... > > "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:UVvJ7.875$[email hidden]... > > I have always benchmarked my system (3DMark or ?) using the realsettings > > and apps. Eg. Virus scanner & firewall on. Seems silly to me to tweakfor > > unrealistic speed. > > > > /Jens > > You run your games with virus scanner and firewall on? You shouldn't,waste > of resources. Get Enditall 2.0 and shut down all that stuff when running > games. >Sorry, I consider security to be far more important than gaming. Turning off the firewall is plain silly,- especially if you are using a fullscreen game which hinders your ability to see what is going on in your pc. (Not that you always can see attacks - far from it). A good virus scanner will not hamper your performance,- at least not on my system. Most games are graphics card limited (fillrate etc.). Thus you do have cpu power to spare. And even if you didn't, how many files are opened when you are in the game? And will adding 1% to the disk access time really make a difference? In my opinion, there is a negligible performance hit - if any! The very human worst case scenario is returning to VROC after a race and checking your mail w/o turning on your AV scanner first. If you are using Outlook Express the preview window can be abused to run viral scripts, unless you have disabled active scripting in OE. Too bad, so sad, bye-bye. In conclusion, if you can't run your games without shutting down your AV and FW, you should consider reducing the graphics (or other) settings. Otherwise you're playing with fire and deserve what you get! YOU were the one who wanted +1 fps instead of security. But the choice is your to make,- I've made mine. Finally, this pc is actually rather secure as all external network connections are routed to another pc, but occasionally I switch IPs and I'd rather not risk forgetting to turn my security back on. Cheers, Jens

Right! In my day you had to free up 639k of ram - if you were lucky! And we had to write all the drivers ourselves in assembler starting without a monitor or even diskdrive, so we hacked it straight into memory. And when I say memory, I really mean the CPU cache. Our system didn't have any ram access at first, you see. /Jens "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:mfHJ7.42242$[email hidden]... > Amatuers....F15SE III needed about 605 to run, but if you wanted speech > then you had to get up to 618.....I beleive the best I got was 619, but my > modem bud somehow got 621 freed up... > I had a double nested startup menu with custom configs for about 10 or12

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> games...some with cdrom support, others without... > dave henrie > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > STP wrote: > > > > > > "Jacob Butner" <jbutner@*REMOVE-MEsimracing.org> wrote in message > > > news:9t66u3$7ql4$[email hidden]... > > > > LOL.. 605k?? Sheesh.. That would require some magic loading of > devices in > > > > config.sys :) > > > > > > > > -Jacob > > > > > > I think AOE was actually 612k. Not sure, but I do know it had the > highest > > > requirement for just about any dos game I ever owned. > > > > 605...612, either way it forced me to look into boot menus....:-) > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > > > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * > > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com > >

Dave Henrie wrote:

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> > Amatuers....F15SE III needed about 605 to run, but if you wanted speech > then you had to get up to 618.....I beleive the best I got was 619, but my > modem bud somehow got 621 freed up... > I had a double nested startup menu with custom configs for about 10 or 12 > games...some with cdrom support, others without... > dave henrie

Nice, I actually got to 621 at one point, but that was without loading essential stuff you needed to play games, like Mouse and Sound, so I count 617 as my best effort, and yes, those boot menus was "wonderful" :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > 605...612, either way it forced me to look into boot menus....:-) Hate to brag, but I could get it running without even using memmaker? :-) Read a book once that dealt with nothing other than configuring memory under Dos. Kind of boring, but it showed me the tricks of the trade. Unfortunately or not, I've forgotten most of it now.

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I agree with shutting down the virus scanner, but not the firewall. If > you're on cable you shouldn't drop your security just because you're > in a game. > > Rafe Mc >Maybe for online games, but when offline just disconnect the cable from the wall. Can't get anymore secure. :-)

"Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dJMJ7.1300$[email hidden]... > Sorry, I consider security to be far more important than gaming. Turningoff > the firewall is plain silly,- especially if you are using a fullscreengame > which hinders your ability to see what is going on in your pc. (Not thatyou > always can see attacks - far from it). You said during games, not online games. Read my post above where I said just unplug the cable from the wall if you are paranoid about getting attacked. I had DSL and it came with an access manager that worked just like a modem dialup. no one could get in if that wasn't loaded. It was never on all the time like some high speed access ISP's do it. > A good virus scanner will not hamper your performance,- at least not on my > system. Really? I've seen many posts to the contrary. I never keep virus scanners memory resident. It's just not needed if you configure your internet software correctly plus they can screw up the installation of software. I just use F-Prot for dos and scan when I think I have a reason to. I've never had a virus infection yet. > Finally, this pc is actually rather secure as all external network > connections are routed to another pc, but occasionally I switch IPs andI'd > rather not risk forgetting to turn my security back on. > > Cheers, > Jens OK Jens, sorry I rubbed you the wrong way. Each to their own.

On Sun, 18 Nov 2001 17:50:56 -0500, "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> I agree with shutting down the virus scanner, but not the firewall. If >> you're on cable you shouldn't drop your security just because you're >> in a game. >> >> Rafe Mc >> >Maybe for online games, but when offline just disconnect the cable from the >wall. Can't get anymore secure. :-) >

Unfortunately, that could never work for me. On a 3PC LAN, the others wouldn't appreciate my intrusion :) :D Rafe Mc

"STP" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:x0XJ7.210$[email hidden]... ><Snip!> > OK Jens, sorry I rubbed you the wrong way. Each to their own. >You didn't. :-) This is a very valid discussion. You and I have different views on the "eternal" performance vs. security issue. Though you make some good points, I just feel differently about it. It's the way I've been tought to think professionally. The no. 1 priority in the financial sector is security w/o compromise. If anybody in your bank tells you differently, move your money right away. :-) One way of looking at it could be, that I don't consider my pc properly configured unless the various security programs and Internet settings are up and running. Sort of a part of the operating system. Btw, your comment about configuring Internetsoftware correctly? You are a trusty fellow, aren't you? Fortunately for you, Microsoft never, ever leaves security holes in their browsers or mail clients. :-) Cheers, Jens P.S. If I remember to do so (lots of little tasks at hand) I'll try to benchmark my system with and without the "stuff" in place.

"Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:A_XJ7.2068$[email hidden]...

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> "STP" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse > news:x0XJ7.210$[email hidden]... > > > <Snip!> > > OK Jens, sorry I rubbed you the wrong way. Each to their own. > > > You didn't. :-) This is a very valid discussion. You and I have different > views on the "eternal" performance vs. security issue. Though you make

some > good points, I just feel differently about it. It's the way I've beentought > to think professionally. The no. 1 priority in the financial sector is > security w/o compromise. If anybody in your bank tells you differently,move > your money right away. :-) One way of looking at it could be, that I don't > consider my pc properly configured unless the various security programsand > Internet settings are up and running. Sort of a part of the operating > system. > > Btw, your comment about configuring Internetsoftware correctly? You are a > trusty fellow, aren't you? Fortunately for you, Microsoft never, everleaves > security holes in their browsers or mail clients. :-) > > Cheers, > Jens Oh, I'm aware of that. Actually there was a new security patch just released a day or two ago for IE6. Somehting to do with cookies. I read aobut it and got the patch manually. But, when I went to the MS update page it didn't show any such patch. Anyway, I use a Firewall and have for quite a while now. But, I load it manually when I'm going online and when I'm gaming offline I unload it. No security risk there. > P.S. If I remember to do so (lots of little tasks at hand) I'll try to > benchmark my system with and without the "stuff" in place. It won't affect the FPS, but it can affect the stability and maybe even cause some stuttering in games. Maybe.

ROFLMAO! Tricky stuff, did you blindfold yourself as well to make it tougher??? Rafe Mc On Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:25:27 +0100, "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Right! >In my day you had to free up 639k of ram - if you were lucky! And we had to >write all the drivers ourselves in assembler starting without a monitor or >even diskdrive, so we hacked it straight into memory. And when I say memory, >I really mean the CPU cache. Our system didn't have any ram access at first, >you see. > >/Jens > >"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse >news:mfHJ7.42242$[email hidden]... >> Amatuers....F15SE III needed about 605 to run, but if you wanted speech >> then you had to get up to 618.....I beleive the best I got was 619, but my >> modem bud somehow got 621 freed up... >> I had a double nested startup menu with custom configs for about 10 or >12 >> games...some with cdrom support, others without... >> dave henrie >> "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:[email hidden]... >> > >> > >> > STP wrote: >> > > >> > > "Jacob Butner" <jbutner@*REMOVE-MEsimracing.org> wrote in message >> > > news:9t66u3$7ql4$[email hidden]... >> > > > LOL.. 605k?? Sheesh.. That would require some magic loading of >> devices in >> > > > config.sys :) >> > > > >> > > > -Jacob >> > > >> > > I think AOE was actually 612k. Not sure, but I do know it had the >> highest >> > > requirement for just about any dos game I ever owned. >> > >> > 605...612, either way it forced me to look into boot menus....:-) >> > >> > >> > Beers and cheers >> > (uncle) Goy >> > >> > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ >> > >> > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * >> > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com >> >> >

If I could step in with a total newbie question. I'm adding a second computer at home, will network them for file and print sharing, so it's router/firewall time. How will a this affect my ability to host gpl via VROC? Don -- Don Scurlock Vancouver,B.C. GPLRank -15.27 MonsterRank 91.34 Come see how you rank, at the GPLRank site http://newgplrank.schuerkamp.de/

"Don Scurlock" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:915E7712Bdscurlock@news... > If I could step in with a total newbie question. I'm adding a secondcomputer > at home, will network them for file and print sharing, so it'srouter/firewall > time. How will a this affect my ability to host gpl via VROC? Don >One thing you should do is to use not only TCP/IP but also NetBEUI. Having installed both protocols you can change your network settings so that File- and Printersharing is only availabe over NetBEUI. NetBEUI is not routable, thus your sharing is unavailable from the Internet. The router will send communication to one or the other pc by default. If you wish to use both for hosting, you have to use non-standard GPL TCP/IP ports for one of the machines. Alison has an explanation for doing that on her Eaglewoman pages. It is not rocket science but may sound a bit confusing. Running as a client is unaffected, but it may take a bit longer to get connected to VROC. It does work, though, and once connected there is no delay. Cheers, Jens

On 19/11/2001 20:42, in article 915E7712Bdscurlock@news, "Don Scurlock" <[email hidden]> wrote: > If I could step in with a total newbie question. I'm adding a second computer > at home, will network them for file and print sharing, so it's router/firewall > time. How will a this affect my ability to host gpl via VROC? Don I use an SMC Barricade with port forwarding to my PC. No problems at all. If you need exact details, reply with the type of Router you're using and I'll try to get you a how-to done. -- Jared Earle - Nightfall Games - http://nightfall.co.uk "There is no SPORK"

Jared, I just picked up the SMC to fill in for a Linksys that has gone tits up too many times. You say your forwarding ports to your PC but are you running a second PC as a server? I am able to run races on VROC without port forwading, but my old machine (that I would like to run as a server) has the host & join options greyed out even if I forwarded the ports or run the second machine in DMZ. The VROC FAQ's only suggest uninstalling Winvroc and removing registry entries for Winvroc then reinstalling. So far this hasn't helped. Some had suggested disabling DHCP server for the router and setting the machines with a fixed IP. Is that needed? Is there any better idiot-proof routine for setting up a server that covers the normal situations one would encounter? Jeff H Jared ''Danger'' Earle <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:B81F74D9.C7C%[email hidden]... > On 19/11/2001 20:42, in article 915E7712Bdscurlock@news, "Don Scurlock" > <[email hidden]> wrote:-snipped-

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> I use an SMC Barricade with port forwarding to my PC. No problems at all. > > If you need exact details, reply with the type of Router you're using and > I'll try to get you a how-to done. > > -- > Jared Earle - Nightfall Games - http://nightfall.co.uk > "There is no SPORK" >

On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 03:46:52 GMT, "Jeff Hails" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Jared, >I just picked up the SMC to fill in for a Linksys that has gone tits up too >many times. You say your forwarding ports to your PC but are you running a >second PC as a server? I am able to run races on VROC without port >forwading, but my old machine (that I would like to run as a server) has the >host & join options greyed out even if I forwarded the ports or run the >second machine in DMZ. The VROC FAQ's only suggest uninstalling Winvroc and >removing registry entries for Winvroc then reinstalling. So far this hasn't >helped. Some had suggested disabling DHCP server for the router and setting >the machines with a fixed IP. Is that needed? Is there any better >idiot-proof routine for setting up a server that covers the normal >situations one would encounter?

Have you tried the 'special ap' section on the Barricade? Insert directplay ports and trigger here. -- Spadge Fromley ''collect your rubbsih and in my belly it will go ...''

Haven't tried that but I will Jeff Spadge Fromley <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 03:46:52 GMT, "Jeff Hails" > <[email hidden]> wrote:-snipped-

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> Have you tried the 'special ap' section on the Barricade? Insert > directplay ports and trigger here. > > -- > Spadge Fromley > ''collect your rubbsih > and in my belly it will go ...''

On 20/11/2001 4:46, in article MmkK7.269$[email hidden], "Jeff Hails" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> I just picked up the SMC to fill in for a Linksys that has gone tits up too > many times. You say your forwarding ports to your PC but are you running a > second PC as a server? I am able to run races on VROC without port > forwading, but my old machine (that I would like to run as a server) has the > host & join options greyed out even if I forwarded the ports or run the > second machine in DMZ. The VROC FAQ's only suggest uninstalling Winvroc and > removing registry entries for Winvroc then reinstalling. So far this hasn't > helped. Some had suggested disabling DHCP server for the router and setting > the machines with a fixed IP. Is that needed? Is there any better > idiot-proof routine for setting up a server that covers the normal > situations one would encounter?

To set up a server that people in the outside world can connect to requires port-forwarding. Yes, you will need a specific IP address on your internal subnet to forward to, but this can be DHCP using the SMC Barricade as the DHCP server that is built-in can 'remember' a computer (using the ethernet card's MAC address) and always assign the same IP address to it whenever it asks for one. I don't host VROC games on my setup, but I do have a server that can be connected to directly and it works fine. I have used this setup to host VROC games in the past, but I can't remember with what success that was. -- Jared Earle - Nightfall Games - http://nightfall.co.uk "There is no SPORK"

"Jens H. Kruuse" wrote: > Right! > In my day you had to free up 639k of ram - if you were lucky! And we had to > write all the drivers ourselves in assembler starting without a monitor or > even diskdrive, so we hacked it straight into memory. You had assembler? Luxury! In my day we programmed everything in binary ... on punch cards. Dave Ewing > -- > ***************************************************** > David A. Ewing > Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] > *****************************************************

David Ewing wrote:

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> > "Jens H. Kruuse" wrote: > > > Right! > > In my day you had to free up 639k of ram - if you were lucky! And we had to > > write all the drivers ourselves in assembler starting without a monitor or > > even diskdrive, so we hacked it straight into memory. > > You had assembler? Luxury! In my day we programmed everything in binary ... on > punch cards.

...and for the Monty Python impaired, here's the transcript of the skit to make this thread a bit easier to follow over the next couple of days.... Eric Idle: Very fussable, isn't it? Very fussable. All: Right, all right. Graham Chapman: Good glass of Chateau de Chasselas, ain't just that, sire? Terry Jones: Oh, you're right there, Obadiah. Graham Chapman: Right. Eric Idle: Who would have thought, thirty years ago, we'd all be sitting here drinking Chateau de Chaselet, eh? All: Aye, aye. Michael Palin: Them days we were glad to have the price of a cup of tea. Graham Chapman: Right! A cup of cold tea! Michael Palin: Right! Eric Idle: Without milk or sugar! Terry Jones: Or tea! Michael Palin: In a cracked cup and all. Eric Idle: Oh, we never used to have a cup! We used to have to drink out of a rolled-up newspaper! Graham Chapman: The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth. Terry Jones: But you know, we were happy in those days, although we were poor. Michael Palin: Because we were poor! Terry Jones: Right! Michael Palin: My old dad used to say to me: "Money doesn't bring you happiness, son!" Eric Idle: He was right! Michael Palin: Right! Eric Idle: I was happier then and I had nothing! We used to live in this tiny old tumbled-down house with great big holes in the roof. Graham Chapman: House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twentysix of us, no furniture, half the floor was missing, we were all huddled together in one corner for fear of falling. Terry Jones: You were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in the corridor! Michael Palin: Oh, we used to dream of living in a corridor! Would have been a palace to us! We used to live in an old watertank on a rubbish tip. We'd all woke up every morning by having a load of rotten fish dumped all over us! House, huh! Eric Idle: Well, when I say a house, it was just a hole in the ground, covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us! Graham Chapman: We were evicted from our hole in the ground. We had to go and live in a lake! Terry Jones: You were lucky to have a lake! There were 150 of us living in a shoebox in the middle of the road! Michael Palin: A cardboard box? Terry Jones: Aye! Michael Palin: You were lucky! We lived for three months in a rolled-up newspaper in a septic tank! We used to have to go up every morning, at six o'clock and clean the newspaper, go to work down the mill, fourteen hours a day, week in, week out, for six pence a week, and when we got home, our dad would slash us to sleep with his belt! Graham Chapman: Luxury! We used to have to get up out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot grubble, work twenty hours a day at mill, for two pence a month, come home, and dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were lucky! Terry Jones: Well, of course, we had it tough! We used to have to get up out of the shoebox in the middle of the night, and lick the road clean with our tongues! We had to eat half a handful of freezing cold grubble, work twenty-four hours a day at mill for four pence every six years, and when we got home, our dad would slice us in two with a breadknife! Eric Idle: Right! I had to get up in the morning, at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill and pay millowner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our dad would kill us and dance about on our graves, singing Hallelujah! Michael Palin: Aah. Are you trying to tell the young people of today that, and they won't believe you! All: No, no they won't! Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

>...and for the Monty Python impaired, here's the transcript of the skit >to make this thread a bit easier to follow over the next couple of >days.... > Hehehe, legendary stuff. Classic :) Rafe Mc

Rafe McAuliffe wrote:

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> > >...and for the Monty Python impaired, here's the transcript of the skit > >to make this thread a bit easier to follow over the next couple of > >days.... > > > > Hehehe, legendary stuff. Classic :) > > Rafe Mc

Right up there with the dead bird skit. :-)) -- Fester

Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Rafe McAuliffe wrote: > > > > >...and for the Monty Python impaired, here's the transcript of the skit > > >to make this thread a bit easier to follow over the next couple of > > >days.... > > > > Hehehe, legendary stuff. Classic :) > > Right up there with the dead bird skit. :-))

Careful, or I'll be forced to post the entire script to "Holy Grail..." ;-) Jonny

Uncle Fester wrote: > > > Right up there with the dead bird skit. :-)) You mean this one then ? --- A customer enters a pet shop. Customer: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint. (The owner does not respond.) C: 'Ello, Miss? Owner: What do you mean "miss"? C: <pause> I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint! O: We're closin' for lunch. C: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot what I purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique. O: Oh yes, the, uh, the Norwegian Blue...What's,uh...What's wrong with it? C: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it! O: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting. C: Look, matey, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now. O: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage! C: The plumage don't enter into it. It's stone dead. O: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting! C: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up! (shouting at the cage) 'Ello, Mister Polly Parrot! I've got a lovely fresh cuttle fish for you if you show...(owner hits the cage) O: There, he moved! C: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the cage! O: I never!! C: Yes, you did! O: I never, never did anything... C: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) 'ELLO POLLY!!!!! Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call! (Takes parrot out of the cage and thumps its head on the counter. Throws it up in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.) C: Now that's what I call a dead parrot. O: No, no.....No, 'e's stunned! C: STUNNED?!? O: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! Norwegian Blues stun easily, major. C: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this. That parrot is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not 'alf an hour ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein' tired and shagged out following a prolonged squawk. O: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the fjords. C: PININ' for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why did he fall flat on his back the moment I got 'im home? O: The Norwegian Blue prefers keepin' on it's back! Remarkable bird, id'nit, squire? Lovely plumage! C: Look, I took the liberty of examining that parrot when I got it home, and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch in the first place was that it had been NAILED there. (pause) O: Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that bird down, it would have nuzzled up to those bars, bent 'em apart with its beak, and VOOM! Feeweeweewee! C: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised! O: No no! 'E's pining! C: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!! (pause) O: Well, I'd better replace it, then. (he takes a quick peek behind the counter) O: Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh, we're right out of parrots. C: I see. I see, I get the picture. O: <pause> I got a slug. (pause) C: Pray, does it talk? O: Nnnnot really. C: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!? O: Well! I never wanted to do this in the first place. I wanted to be... A LUMBERJACK! Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

Jonny Hodgson wrote:

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> > Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Rafe McAuliffe wrote: > > > > > > >...and for the Monty Python impaired, here's the transcript of the skit > > > >to make this thread a bit easier to follow over the next couple of > > > >days.... > > > > > > Hehehe, legendary stuff. Classic :) > > > > Right up there with the dead bird skit. :-)) > > Careful, or I'll be forced to post the entire script > to "Holy Grail..." ;-) > > Jonny

Good choice, but..... I'll see your "Holy Grail" and raise you a "Life of Brian"..... In the mean time, here's one for our Australian cousins, gotta give something back to people who have the good taste to run such an exciting series as the Super V8 series or what they call it these days --- Bruce I: Good evening, ladies and bruces! Bruce II: Hello, Bruce. Bruce I: Hello, Bruce. Bruce III: Hello, Bruce. Bruce I: Hey, Bruce. Bruce II: What's all this lot, Bruce? Bruce I: It's very nice to be here at the Hollywood Bowl this evening! We're all philosophy professors from the University of Woolamaloa, Australia! All Bruces: Hey, Australia, Australia, Australia! God love ya! Bruce I: I teach Hegelian philosophy, Bruce here teaches Aristotolean philosophy, and Bruce here is in charge of the sheep dip. Bruce II: [Cough] Bloody difficult work, I tell ya! Bruce I: I'll tell you what is thirsty work watching this garn of human. Bruce, why don't you just stick out a few of these little free examples from your ----. Bruce I: All right! Now, the reason we do this, ladies and bruces, is frankly over here we find your American beer is a little like making love in a canoe! Bruce III: Making love in a canoe? Bruce I: It's fucking close to water! Well now, we're going to try and raise the tone a little here by singing a nice intellectual song for for those two or three of you in the audience... Bruce II: Right! Bruce I: ...who understand these things. So, here we go! All Bruces : Immanuel Kant was a real pissant Who was very rarely stable Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar Who could think you under the table David Hume could out-consume Schopenhauer and Hegel And Wittgenstein was a beery swine Who was just as sloshed as Schlegel There's nothing Nietszche couldn't teach ya 'Bout the raising of the wrist Socrates himself was permanently pissed Bruce II: How do you like that? All right! Bruce I: Let's hold it a second. I can see some of these bruces are in a bit of a playful mood tonight. Ain't that, Bruce? Bruce II: Yeah, Bruce. Bruce I: Some of the ones that don't have straws up their nose. Anyway, why don't we do something rather... Why don't we get some of these guys to sing along with us? ----. Bruce II: Ok, I've got the words somewhere. Bruce I: Right! Ready! Bruce II: Right! Ready! All Bruces & Audience : Immanuel Kant was a real pissant Who was very rarely stable Bruce II: Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy... Bruce I: They're a typical Hollywood audience! All the kids are on drugs, and all the adults are on roller skates! Have we got any...have we got anything bigger to put the words up for these rather shortsighted people? Bruce II: This is Bruce from the Biology Department. Bruce I: All right. Okay, here we go. All Bruces & Audience : Immanuel Kant was a real pissant Who was very rarely stable Bruce II: Come on! All Bruces & Audience : Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar Who could take you under the table David Hume could out-consume Schopenhauer and Hegel And Wittgenstein was a beery swine Who was just as sloshed as Schlegel There's nothing Nietszche couldn't teach ya 'Bout the raising of the wrist Socrates himself was permanently pissed John Stuart Mill of his own free will On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill Plato they say could stick it away Half a crate of whiskey every day Aristotle, Aristotle was a buggar for the bottle Hobbes was fond of his Dram And Rene Descartes was a drunken fart "I drink, therefore I am !" Yes Socrates himself is particularly missed A lovely little thinker But a bugger when he's pissed --- Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]... ><Snip!> > In the mean time, here's one for our Australian cousins, gotta give > something back to people who have the good taste to run such an exciting > series as the Super V8 series or what they call it these days > --- ><Snip!> Sniff, sniff... There's nothing like high-brow poetry to get that emotional response. ;-) /Jens

"Jens H. Kruuse" wrote:

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> > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse > news:[email hidden]... > > > <Snip!> > > In the mean time, here's one for our Australian cousins, gotta give > > something back to people who have the good taste to run such an exciting > > series as the Super V8 series or what they call it these days > > --- > > > <Snip!> > Sniff, sniff... There's nothing like high-brow poetry to get that emotional > response. ;-)

So true......I wonder what the Bruce's would have had to say about Danish beer ? Tuborg, Carlsberg.........brb, need a drink Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

"David Ewing" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]... > "Jens H. Kruuse" wrote: > > > Right! > > In my day you had to free up 639k of ram - if you were lucky! And we hadto > > write all the drivers ourselves in assembler starting without a monitoror > > even diskdrive, so we hacked it straight into memory. > > You had assembler? Luxury! In my day we programmed everything in binary... on > punch cards. >Now what I called a cpu cache was really just a soggy piece of soiled cardboard from a reused crate of unwrapped pig intestines! We may have thought of it as memory, when we scratched out code with a piece of rock covered with lichen. And every day when we turned our code in for review the project manager would kick us down 3 flights of stairs dumping us straight in a cesspool. If we were lucky! /Jens

Well, *I* spent the first year of my career developing for the Mac. It don't get any worse than that! "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8qUK7.319$[email hidden]... > "David Ewing" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse > news:[email hidden]... > > "Jens H. Kruuse" wrote: > > > > > Right! > > > In my day you had to free up 639k of ram - if you were lucky! And wehad > to > > > write all the drivers ourselves in assembler starting without amonitor

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> or > > > even diskdrive, so we hacked it straight into memory. > > > > You had assembler? Luxury! In my day we programmed everything in binary > ... on > > punch cards. > > > Now what I called a cpu cache was really just a soggy piece of soiled > cardboard from a reused crate of unwrapped pig intestines! We may have > thought of it as memory, when we scratched out code with a piece of rock > covered with lichen. And every day when we turned our code in for review

the > project manager would kick us down 3 flights of stairs dumping us straight > in a cesspool. If we were lucky! > > /Jens > >

Rob Adams wrote: > > Well, *I* spent the first year of my career developing for the Mac. It don't > get any worse than that! Aah. And you trying to tell the young people of today that, and they won't believe you! Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:32:33 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Uncle Fester wrote: >> >> >> Right up there with the dead bird skit. :-)) > >You mean this one then ? > > >--- >A customer enters a pet shop. > > > >Customer: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.

Now THAT is a classic skit :) Rafe Mc

Goy Larsen wrote:

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> C: Look, I took the liberty of examining that parrot when I got it home, > and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch > in the first place was that it had been NAILED there. > > > > (pause) > > > > O: Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that bird > down, it would have nuzzled up to those bars, bent 'em apart with its > beak, and VOOM! Feeweeweewee! > > C: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million > volts through it! 'E's bleedin' demised! > > O: No no! 'E's pining! > > C: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has > ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! > Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch > 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now > 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off > 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir > invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

ROTFLAMO!! Yep that's it, & this is the part that just *killed* me. Thanks for the laugh, it's a true classic. -- Fester

Uncle Fester wrote: > > Goy Larsen wrote: > > ROTFLAMO!! Yep that's it, & this is the part that just *killed* me. > Thanks for the laugh, it's a true classic. You are quite welcome, when it comes to Monty Python, I'm only too happy to help out a fellow enthusiast....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Rafe McAuliffe wrote:

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> > On Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:32:33 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Uncle Fester wrote: > >> > >> > >> Right up there with the dead bird skit. :-)) > > > >You mean this one then ? > > > > > >--- > >A customer enters a pet shop. > > > > > > > >Customer: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint. > > Now THAT is a classic skit :) > > Rafe Mc

Aren't all Monty Python skits classics ? :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> writes: > Aren't all Monty Python skits classics ? :-) No. -- -asbjxrn

In article <dJMJ7.1300$[email hidden]>, "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> writes: >In conclusion, if you can't run your games without shutting down your AV and >FW, you should consider reducing the graphics (or other) settings. Otherwise >you're playing with fire and deserve what you get! YOU were the one who >wanted +1 fps instead of security. But the choice is your to make,- I've >made mine. So what's your firewall? As I said in another message, it isn't the framerate I'm worried about - it's the lockup. eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Rafe McAuliffe) writes:

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>>You run your games with virus scanner and firewall on? You shouldn't, waste >>of resources. Get Enditall 2.0 and shut down all that stuff when running >>games. >> >>www.pcmag.com >> >I agree with shutting down the virus scanner, but not the firewall. If >you're on cable you shouldn't drop your security just because you're >in a game.

I've never been able to run GPL while my ZoneAlarm is running. It might lock up at any point, and it's kicked me out of a league race before... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]... > In article <dJMJ7.1300$[email hidden]>, "Jens H. Kruuse" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >In conclusion, if you can't run your games without shutting down your AVand > >FW, you should consider reducing the graphics (or other) settings.Otherwise > >you're playing with fire and deserve what you get! YOU were the one who > >wanted +1 fps instead of security. But the choice is your to make,- I've > >made mine. > > So what's your firewall? As I said in another message, it isn't theframerate > I'm worried about - it's the lockup. >I use Tiny Personal Firewall. Free but fairly sofisticated & a bit technical. http://www.tinysoftware.com http://www.tpffaq.com/cgi-bin/faqmanager.cgi (Excellent FAQ with lots of information. Really, lots!) Cheers, Jens

"Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kBeL7.698$[email hidden]... > I use Tiny Personal Firewall. Free but fairly sofisticated & a bit > technical. > > http://www.tinysoftware.com ZoneAlarm is free too.