F1 2001 Momo settings?

Anybody allready messed with F1 2001 and the Momo settings? The logitec FF settings from Pat work quite good, but it feels there's even more in it, especially after reading some of the enthousiastic reviews about the ff. Wonderfull patch, good ff makes racing so much more involving!! And its called a beta patch.. can I asume they released it because they promised us a mid-nov release date, and we can still expect an even better patch? Hell if they would have called this the final patch I would just be as happy, all of the gfx problems are gone, the backfire sound is supah, and the ff is just bloody fantastic with 30.000 (ok, but less but it seems that much) variables to manually tweak it.. Ubi, take note how it should be done, then walk away in shame! Andre

Hi Andre I have arrived at these (only showing the important ones): FFB_Steer_Force_Exponent=(0.700000) // Recommended: 0.5 to 2.0, 0.0 disables steering force. FFB_Steer_Force_Input_Max=(-6500.000000) // Recommended: 7000 (-7000 if controller pulls in the wrong direction). FFB_Steer_Force_Output_Max=(0.700000) // -1.0 to 1.20 Recommended: 0.85 to 1.10 Maximum force output of steering force. FFB_Steer_Force_Grip_Weight=(0.300000) // Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0 How much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force. FFB_Steer_Damper_Coefficient=(0.400000) // -1.0 to 1.0, recommended: 0.0 to 0.5, 0.0 disables steering damper. FFB_Steer_Damper_Saturation=(1.000000) // 0.0 to 1.0, recommended: leave it at 1.0 and change only the coefficient. Must say I don't like very strong FF, if you do up the FFB_Steer_Force_Output_Max The idea of the beta patch is that you can still provide feedback here: http://f12001.phosworks.se/dynpage.asp?page_id=769 Bart "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Anybody allready messed with F1 2001 and the Momo settings? > The logitec FF settings from Pat work quite good, but it feels there's > even more in it, especially after reading some of the enthousiastic > reviews about the ff. > Wonderfull patch, good ff makes racing so much more involving!! > > And its called a beta patch.. can I asume they released it because > they promised us a mid-nov release date, and we can still expect an > even better patch? Hell if they would have called this the final patch > I would just be as happy, all of the gfx problems are gone, the > backfire sound is supah, and the ff is just bloody fantastic with > 30.000 (ok, but less but it seems that much) variables to manually > tweak it.. > > Ubi, take note how it should be done, then walk away in shame! > > Andre

Andre Warringa wrote: > > Anybody allready messed with F1 2001 and the Momo settings? > The logitec FF settings from Pat work quite good, but it feels there's > even more in it, especially after reading some of the enthousiastic > reviews about the ff. What do you mean by "more in it"? Do you want stronger effects? If so, I suggest bumping FFB steer force input max up to 8500 (the ACT Labs value). I think the Momo version has stronger effects, so it should be able to handle it. The effects in the profiles I posted only make use of the forces actually calculated by the physics model of F12K (except for a bit of canned rumble strip effect). I think these profiles are about as realistic as it will get (though I'd like to be proven wrong). The other effects available are more of a canned nature that I think detracts from the important steering forces. One thing about these profiles is that you won't feel very strong cornering forces unless you are driving close to the limit. If you are just cruising around, there won't be as much feel. While you are learning, you might want to lower the FFB force exponent to 0.6 or 0.5 (lower is stronger). This will increase the response to lower cornering forces. As you get better, 0.7 seems to give a better feel for where the limit actually is. -- Pat Dotson

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:58:27 +0100, "Bart Westra" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Hi Andre Hi Bart, thanks for the settings. They work nice, allthough I still think they can be improved (I hope :) Some questions: >FFB_Steer_Force_Exponent=(0.700000) // Recommended: 0.5 to 2.0, 0.0 >disables steering force.I set this one higher indeed, I have the momo on 100% strength in windows and then this setting is a tad low >FFB_Steer_Force_Input_Max=(-6500.000000) // Recommended: 7000 (-7000 if >controller pulls in the wrong direction).Why not -7000 here? >FFB_Steer_Force_Output_Max=(0.700000) // -1.0 to 1.20 Recommended: 0.85 >to 1.10 Maximum force output of steering force.I don't get the difference between this settings and the steer-force-exp setting, both are for the amount of force? Anyway I set this one higher too. >FFB_Steer_Force_Grip_Weight=(0.300000) // Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0 How >much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force.Ok, this one seems very important to me. I think the most important part of ff is to be able to feel if the car is coming loose. That's what this setting is for I assume? You set it below the recommended value - shouldn't this one be set to the maximum? And what settings do you use in windows? Thanks for your input :) Andre

On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:18:40 -0500, Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Andre Warringa wrote: >> >> Anybody allready messed with F1 2001 and the Momo settings? >> The logitec FF settings from Pat work quite good, but it feels there's >> even more in it, especially after reading some of the enthousiastic >> reviews about the ff. > >What do you mean by "more in it"? Do you want stronger >effects? If so, I suggest bumping FFB steer force >input max up to 8500 (the ACT Labs value). I think >the Momo version has stronger effects, so it should be >able to handle it.

Hi Pat, with "more in it" I mean the ff is allready quite good, but some effects are off (I don't really feel the car getting lighter, I do in GPL and that's what makes me drive more consistent. Also when driving straight the wheel is pulling to the left and right which is not good. I have a Momo and I guess I need slightly different settings than your LWFF settings?

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>One thing about these profiles is that you won't feel >very strong cornering forces unless you are driving >close to the limit. If you are just cruising around, >there won't be as much feel. While you are learning, >you might want to lower the FFB force exponent to 0.6 >or 0.5 (lower is stronger). This will increase the >response to lower cornering forces. As you get better, >0.7 seems to give a better feel for where the limit >actually is.

Lower is stronger? Ah, I thought otherwise :-/ Time for some more experimenting then! Andre >-- >Pat Dotson

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:58:27 +0100, "Bart Westra" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Hi Andre > > Hi Bart, thanks for the settings. They work nice, allthough I still > think they can be improved (I hope :) > Some questions: > > >FFB_Steer_Force_Exponent=(0.700000) // Recommended: 0.5 to 2.0, 0.0 > >disables steering force. > I set this one higher indeed, I have the momo on 100% strength in > windows and then this setting is a tad low

I have yet to try different values for this one. > >FFB_Steer_Force_Input_Max=(-6500.000000) // Recommended: 7000 (-7000if > >controller pulls in the wrong direction). > Why not -7000 here? I followed Pat here :) Except I found the Momo needs the minus sign here (should cure your complaint in another message about the wheel is pulling to the left and right on straights). > >FFB_Steer_Force_Output_Max=(0.700000) // -1.0 to 1.20 Recommended:0.85 > >to 1.10 Maximum force output of steering force. > I don't get the difference between this settings and the > steer-force-exp setting, both are for the amount of force? > Anyway I set this one higher too. This is the one I used to get lighter FF. > >FFB_Steer_Force_Grip_Weight=(0.300000) // Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0How > >much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force. > Ok, this one seems very important to me. I think the most important > part of ff is to be able to feel if the car is coming loose. That's > what this setting is for I assume? You set it below the recommended > value - shouldn't this one be set to the maximum? Again I followed Pat here. If you set it higher, like the 0.9 default, grip changes have too great an effect on the forces felt. > And what settings do you use in windows? At the moment, I have overall FF level=90% Spring effect level=40% and Damper effect level=40% > Thanks for your input :) You're welcome :) Bart

Andre Warringa wrote: > > >FFB_Steer_Force_Input_Max=(-6500.000000) // Recommended: 7000 (-7000 if > >controller pulls in the wrong direction). > Why not -7000 here? Because I arrived at a value of -6500 through a highly developed test method :) > >FFB_Steer_Force_Output_Max=(0.700000) // -1.0 to 1.20 Recommended: 0.85 > >to 1.10 Maximum force output of steering force. > I don't get the difference between this settings and the > steer-force-exp setting, both are for the amount of force? > Anyway I set this one higher too. The exponent number increases or decreases response to smaller cornering forces. Lower numbers increase the feedback generated by small forces. In my experience, numbers lower than 0.5 tend to create wheel oscillations. Higher steering sensitivity settings will "focus" the forces at the center of steering travel, and do the same thing. Output Max raises or lowers the wheels response to maximum in-game forces. > >FFB_Steer_Force_Grip_Weight=(0.300000) // Recommended: 0.5 to 1.0 How > >much weight is given to tire grip when calculating steering force. > Ok, this one seems very important to me. I think the most important > part of ff is to be able to feel if the car is coming loose. That's > what this setting is for I assume? You set it below the recommended > value - shouldn't this one be set to the maximum? FF in F1 2001 is based only on what the front wheels are doing. Raising grip weight gives you an exaggerated response to tires losing grip. I find that with high grip weights, as you pass maximum tire grip, the opposing force on the wheel drops off so quickly that it interferes with controlling the car. A setting of 0.3 may be a little subtle while you are getting a feel for things. You might try bumping it up a bit, though I personally wouldn't go over 0.5. -- Pat Dotson

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > Hi Pat, with "more in it" I mean the ff is allready quite good, but > some effects are off (I don't really feel the car getting lighter, I > do in GPL and that's what makes me drive more consistent. > Also when driving straight the wheel is pulling to the left and right > which is not good. > > I have a Momo and I guess I need slightly different settings than your > LWFF settings?

I suggest you try the settings for the ACT Labs wheel with the Momo. If you'll notice, the settings are the same for all three wheels, except for the FFB steering force output max. That number is tailored to the specific wheels (at least the individual wheel that I have). Like I said in the other post to this thread, try lowering the FFB steering force exponent to 0.6 or 0.5. That will give you more feedback at lower speeds. Setting it too low will cause wheel oscillations. -- Pat Dotson

On Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:35:34 -0500, Pat Dotson <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Andre Warringa wrote: >> >> >FFB_Steer_Force_Input_Max=(-6500.000000) // Recommended: 7000 (-7000 if >> >controller pulls in the wrong direction). >> Why not -7000 here? > >Because I arrived at a value of -6500 through a >highly developed test method :)

Ok, I trust you on your word :) But could you tell me what exactly happened while changing the value? Why is -6500 better than -7000? >A setting of 0.3 may be a little subtle while you >are getting a feel for things. You might try bumping >it up a bit, though I personally wouldn't go over 0.5. Right, thanks for the info. But yesterday I learned I made a mistake while experimenting with the parameters, I went into the calib menu after making some tweaks and apparently that resets the values.. I'm in the middle of reinstalling windows now, for some reason F1 2001 refused to start yesterday, it kept crashing after I started it. Hope everything works again tonight so I can finally experiment with the ff with this new knowledge.. Thanks :) Andre >Pat Dotson

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > >> >FFB_Steer_Force_Input_Max=(-6500.000000) // Recommended: 7000 (-7000 if > >> >controller pulls in the wrong direction). > >> Why not -7000 here? > > > >Because I arrived at a value of -6500 through a > >highly developed test method :) > > Ok, I trust you on your word :) But could you tell me what exactly > happened while changing the value? Why is -6500 better than -7000?

I'll try to put in plain language what I think happens with different FFB Input Max settings. FFB Steer Force Input Max "compresses" or "expands" the strength of the in-game forces in relation to the maximum force the wheel can generate. This is at least the way I think of it. I think that this setting more than any other will determine how well the forces generated by the FF wheel meshes with in-game events. The way I experimentally set this value for each wheel was to: 1) set force exponent, and FFB steer force output max to 1. This should translate in-game forces directly into FF forces without any further enhancement. 2) set grip weight to zero, so that effect wasn't interfering with what I think is the raw output of in-game forces. 3) Adjust FFB steer force input max up or down until the wheel is generating its maximum force as the car reaches it's maximum lateral force at the front wheels that the car is capable of producing. Lowering this value will reduce the force the wheel generates at max lateral force. Raising this value will cause the wheel to generate its max force before the car hits its max lateral force (you can't feel the limit). 4) Raise the grip weight enough so that steering force drops once the tire passes its peak slip angle. Raising grip weight up to around 1.0 means that steering forces drop off completely as you pass peak slip angle. I don't need it to drop to zero, I only need enough of a drop that I know I've passed peak slip angle. I honestly can't think of a better way to implement FF in a driving simulation. The grip weight setting gives you an enhanced way to feel that you are over- driving the car. In real life, the steering force/ lateral force wouldn't drop off like that. The only thing I'd like to try differently is, instead of calculating the lateral force at the front wheels, calculate the lateral force at the exact center of the drivers rectum. This should give more of a "seat of the pants" feel! :) I'm not sure this would be better, but I think this combined with the grip weight parameter might give a better feel for what's happening when the rear of the car gets loose. -- Pat Dotson