Left-foot braking

Do you do left-foot braking?

> Do you do left-foot braking? Yup,.. mostly beacuse breaking with a set of pedals that arent actually attachd to a car is a pain in the ass... I tried right foot breaking for a while when playing online, your reaction time is to slow, and you have a tendency to "push" the whole pedal mounts around on the floor. If they were bolted to the floor somehow, it might be better,... If i had pedals with a clutch, Im sure i would start right foot braking again though,...

On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:51:05 GMT, [email hidden] (John Hilsman) wrote:

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>On 27 Nov 2001 04:53:47 GMT, [email hidden] (..) wrote: >>Do you do left-foot braking? > >I always do, it really doesn't matter for some turns but I raced a >Bristol race tonight and really noticed how much I was doing it. I >keep both feet up on the pedals at places Bristol and Dover and start >to get a little brake as I come out of the throttle, about 75%. It >makes a much smoother weight transfer as the car hunkers down on the >front spring going into the turns. Split-axis pedals made a world of >difference for me - anyone without should speak to Santa quick! >

I always brake with my left foot, only because I find that moving my foot from gas to brake and back starts sliding the whole pedal assemblage around on the floor (hardwood), whereas using two feet keeps it in place. I also race in socks, in case you were going to ask.

Heres a little suggestion. I also have hardwood Rimu T+G floor and even with the rubber feet my pedals slide around all over the place. Since I leave my pedals under the desk when I'm not racing I've hammered in a couple of 1" panel pins (small nails) into the grooves between boards and these fit perfectly into the sculptured back of my TM Modena pedal base. The pedals no longer slide backwards out of reach and since they are in the joints when I remove them they won't leave too much of a hole. Caveat: I wouldn't let the wife/gf see you doing, she may not see the benefit as you do. PrimaryMan "meettonysoprano" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:51:05 GMT, [email hidden] (John > Hilsman) wrote: > > >On 27 Nov 2001 04:53:47 GMT, [email hidden] (..) wrote: > >>Do you do left-foot braking? > > > >I always do, it really doesn't matter for some turns but I raced a > >Bristol race tonight and really noticed how much I was doing it. I > >keep both feet up on the pedals at places Bristol and Dover and start > >to get a little brake as I come out of the throttle, about 75%. It > >makes a much smoother weight transfer as the car hunkers down on the > >front spring going into the turns. Split-axis pedals made a world of > >difference for me - anyone without should speak to Santa quick! > > > > I always brake with my left foot, only because I find that moving my > foot from gas to brake and back starts sliding the whole pedal > assemblage around on the floor (hardwood), whereas using two feet > keeps it in place. > > I also race in socks, in case you were going to ask. > >

No, not at all. I might consider it if sim brake pedals were pressure sensitive instead of travel sensitive, but not at the moment. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. ".." wrote... > Do you do left-foot braking?

.. <[email hidden]> wrote on 27 Nov 2001: > Do you do left-foot braking? Yes, always. Of course, I don't drive in real life, so I haven't been conditioed to a standard three-pedal-and-clutch setup. So for me, left foot on the brake and right on the accelerator is the only natural way. (if the MSFF didn't have split axis things might be different.) -- Sceptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense -- Carl Sagan The GPL Scrapyard returns (slowly): http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

yep ".." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Do you do left-foot braking?

On 27 Nov 2001 04:53:47 GMT, [email hidden] (..) wrote: >Do you do left-foot braking? I do left hand braking :-) Ian -- Ian Riches GPL Rank +2.36 Monsters of GPL +296.53

".." wrote: > > Do you do left-foot braking? Nope. Right footer here. -- Fester

".." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Do you do left-foot braking? I do in both my real car and my Eagle.... Of course I have an automatic gearbox in my car, but still use my left when braking in a "normal" car, if I don+t have to change gear. Joakim

"Joakim Lauridsen" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> ".." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Do you do left-foot braking? > > I do in both my real car and my Eagle.... Of course I have an automatic > gearbox in my car, but still use my left when braking in a "normal" car, if > I don+t have to change gear.

wehey! I've tried it a few times, but it's difficult, very difficult. Tried to left-foot brake when I drove Route 1 in a Mustang automatic last year. Combined with having the gear lever on 2 it worked pretty well to take those corners close to speed limit. :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

I used to be a right foot only braker in GPL/N4, I thought switching to left would make me faster and it did but only by a little bit. ~10 seconds in GPLrank. A funny thing happened while driving my real car, I found myself braking with my left foot, and now I sometimes switch feet while braking :) I think N4 short tracks get the most benefit from left foot braking, if you've ever seen the incar footage of the drivers' feet they do it too. ".." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Do you do left-foot braking?

Auto brake mechanics can almost always tell if a driver of an automatic is left foot braking. (most other drivers can too! The brake lights are always on!!) Left foot brakers tend to leave their foot on the brake pedal, which in many cars will ever-so-slightly bring the brake pads/pucks in contact with the disc or drum resulting in excessive brake wear. Fuel mileage tends to suffer, performance is slightly degraded...My mother-in-law was a prime example. dave henrie "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Joakim Lauridsen" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > ".." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Do you do left-foot braking? > > > > I do in both my real car and my Eagle.... Of course I have an automatic > > gearbox in my car, but still use my left when braking in a "normal" car,

if

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> > I don+t have to change gear. > > wehey! I've tried it a few times, but it's difficult, very > difficult. Tried to left-foot brake when I drove Route 1 in a Mustang > automatic last year. Combined with having the gear lever on 2 it > worked pretty well to take those corners close to speed limit. :) > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove .spam when replying

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Auto brake mechanics can almost always tell if a driver of an automatic is > left foot braking. (most other drivers can too! The brake lights are > always on!!) Left foot brakers tend to leave their foot on the brake pedal, > which in many cars will ever-so-slightly bring the brake pads/pucks in > contact with the disc or drum resulting in excessive brake wear. Fuel > mileage tends to suffer, performance is slightly degraded...My mother-in-law > was a prime example.

Good point! For cars in Europe it's the clutch that gets it. Many people not good at driving just use the pedal as a left foot resting plate. While still on the topic, I take myself in double clutching and heel and toe almost every time i shift down now. Too bad the silly Golf has such boring engine, so pedestrians doesn't get to hear the throttle burp :) But I don't think the next step which is shifting without the clutch is something I want to do :)

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> dave henrie > "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Joakim Lauridsen" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > ".." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Do you do left-foot braking? > > > > > > I do in both my real car and my Eagle.... Of course I have an automatic > > > gearbox in my car, but still use my left when braking in a "normal" car, > if > > > I don+t have to change gear. > > > > wehey! I've tried it a few times, but it's difficult, very > > difficult. Tried to left-foot brake when I drove Route 1 in a Mustang > > automatic last year. Combined with having the gear lever on 2 it > > worked pretty well to take those corners close to speed limit. :) > > > > -- > > Olav K. Malmin > > remove .spam when replying > >

-- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

.. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Do you do left-foot braking? Road car: no. Tried it occasionally but would rather heel'n'toe to allow rapid downshifts when I need. Sims: yes. Much quicker changeover, avoids sliding the pedals all over the place, allows smoother transition (using single-axis pedals). Karts: yes. Not much choice ;-) R/C race car: left *thumb* braking, as again there's not much choice (can't get my head round pushing a trigger to brake :-) Jonny

real car no. sims yes. started from day one when i was a kid playing arcade games (ever since they had those clutchless "manual" boxes) ".." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Do you do left-foot braking?

Hi All, For racing sims I left foot exclusively cause I don't like moving my feet around much. IRL driving an automatic transmission I do as well, but don't rest the left foot on the brake. With my own manual transmission car, I very rarely brake with the left foot. I do quite often shift without the clutch. Sometimes it's because my right leg is busy steering, at others to minimize over zealous driving. Having to get the revs right forces a slower and smoothe shift. Jeff H. Olav K. Malmin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > Auto brake mechanics can almost always tell if a driver of anautomatic is > > left foot braking. (most other drivers can too! The brake lights are > > always on!!) Left foot brakers tend to leave their foot on the brakepedal, > > which in many cars will ever-so-slightly bring the brake pads/pucks in > > contact with the disc or drum resulting in excessive brake wear. Fuel > > mileage tends to suffer, performance is slightly degraded...Mymother-in-law > > was a prime example. >-snipped-

Left foot for sims and the road. And no, I don't rest my foot on the brake pedal :P Rafe Mc On Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:30:04 GMT, "Jeff Hails" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hi All, >For racing sims I left foot exclusively cause I don't like moving my feet >around much. IRL driving an automatic transmission I do as well, but don't >rest the left foot on the brake. With my own manual transmission car, I >very rarely brake with the left foot. I do quite often shift without the >clutch. Sometimes it's because my right leg is busy steering, at others to >minimize over zealous driving. Having to get the revs right forces a slower >and smoothe shift. > >Jeff H. > >Olav K. Malmin <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes: >> >> > Auto brake mechanics can almost always tell if a driver of an >automatic is >> > left foot braking. (most other drivers can too! The brake lights are >> > always on!!) Left foot brakers tend to leave their foot on the brake >pedal, >> > which in many cars will ever-so-slightly bring the brake pads/pucks in >> > contact with the disc or drum resulting in excessive brake wear. Fuel >> > mileage tends to suffer, performance is slightly degraded...My >mother-in-law >> > was a prime example. >> >-snipped- >

[email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes: > While still on the topic, I take myself in double clutching and heel > and toe almost every time i shift down now. Too bad the silly Golf > has such boring engine, so pedestrians doesn't get to hear the > throttle burp :) But I don't think the next step which is shifting > without the clutch is something I want to do :) I tried to both shift without a clutch and left foot brake in my road car this summer. Braking and turning in went ok, then came the shift, and my left leg automatically pushed the pedal to the floor. Well, as far as it could, at least. Pretty good brakes on that car. About now the car had slowed so much that I figured no point in trying to shift without the clutch anymore so I pushed in the "clutch" and the brakes were still pretty good. I had to counsciously (sp?) lift my left foot off the pedal, and move it all the way over to the left before I managed to get going. Changing instincts is a pain in the butt. -- -asbjxrn

>Caveat: I wouldn't let the wife/gf see you doing, she may not see the >benefit as you do. >PrimaryMan Oh Yea? But who paid for that "hardwood Rimu T+G floor"? I just got a set of cheap Logitech WingMan GP wheel and pedals. I just used a couple of long drywall screws, and threaded them right through the plastic base - carpet - into wood floor. The landlord won't even know the differance. Ya gotta keep the pedals from moving. I would've used a wooden base if the floor was tile or concrete, just "Liquid Nail" the base to the floor. Heh I like "Liquid Nails" LOL, but then again my girlfriend is 1,200 miles away, he he. Oh an' by the way, I race wif a very old pair of trailer worn Reeboks. Real fellas don't race in socks! Ya reckon?

[email hidden] (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) writes:

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> [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes: > > > While still on the topic, I take myself in double clutching and heel > > and toe almost every time i shift down now. Too bad the silly Golf > > has such boring engine, so pedestrians doesn't get to hear the > > throttle burp :) But I don't think the next step which is shifting > > without the clutch is something I want to do :) > > I tried to both shift without a clutch and left foot brake in my road > car this summer. Braking and turning in went ok, then came the shift, > and my left leg automatically pushed the pedal to the floor. Well, as > far as it could, at least. Pretty good brakes on that car. About now > the car had slowed so much that I figured no point in trying to shift > without the clutch anymore so I pushed in the "clutch" and the brakes > were still pretty good. I had to counsciously (sp?) lift my left foot > off the pedal, and move it all the way over to the left before I > managed to get going.

The opposite of stopping an automatic. Left foot hammering down on the "clutch" :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

[email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes: > While still on the topic, I take myself in double clutching and heel > and toe almost every time i shift down now. hm. double clutching... what's that? -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gitaren er en sjingke

Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> writes: > [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes: > > > While still on the topic, I take myself in double clutching and heel > > and toe almost every time i shift down now. > > hm. double clutching... what's that? Putting the car in neutral and let go of the clutch pedal so the internal parts on the engine side of the gearbox can be matched with the axle side (or something, I'm not too much into this). It makes downshifting a lot easier for those of us who can't afford a car that isn't over 10 years old. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

[email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes:

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> Gunnar Horrigmo <[email hidden]> writes: > > > [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes: > > > > > While still on the topic, I take myself in double clutching and heel > > > and toe almost every time i shift down now. > > > > hm. double clutching... what's that? > > Putting the car in neutral and let go of the clutch pedal so the > internal parts on the engine side of the gearbox can be matched with > the axle side (or something, I'm not too much into this). It makes > downshifting a lot easier for those of us who can't afford a car that > isn't over 10 years old.

You need to blip the gas as well when you have released the clutch. It is a bit of a pain if you have a car with a hard clutch pedal with long travel. Like my 18 year old car. Never managed to get into good clutching habits. Too lazy, I guess. -- -asbjxrn

I do it all the time in my 70 El Camino - talk about a stiff clutch! My left leg is bigger than my right now because I drive it around all the time. Ryan

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>While still on the topic, I take myself in double clutching and heel >and toe almost every time i shift down now. Too bad the silly Golf >has such boring engine, so pedestrians doesn't get to hear the >throttle burp :) But I don't think the next step which is shifting >without the clutch is something I want to do :) >-- >Olav K. Malmin >remove .spam when replying

LOL, Double Clutching and Left Foot Braking on a passenger car. If you do either you are a mechanic's dream or nightmare. First off, passenger cars are not "Race Cars". Double Clutching on a passenger car will do nothing but shorten the life of your transmission sycro's. Remember those? they were designed to make manual transmissions shift easier. Ya know what they really are? Little brakes that slow the spinning gears so that the dogs that engage the gears will slide into each other effortlessly. Double clutching just make these little (Brass) brakes work twice, thus shortening the life of your transmission in half, IMO. Take it for me I know. My brother's first car was a Triumph TR250 and he learned how to drive a manual transmission from reading about the GP drivers of the 60's era in Road & Track. Heh I think I replaced 3 transmission before he smartened up. Thank God the backwards English allowed the transmission to be replaced from the interior compartment, didn't ruin this 16 year olds back at the time. :-) Left foot braking is for Senior Citizens, he he. Race Cars have very hard rotors and racing metallic linings that need to be very hot to work properly. I know that squatting the car down on the suspension is a great driving tactic, but you will just shorten the mileage of your brakes and rotors. DON'T COMPLAIN TO YOUR MECHANIC ! Hell I remember Mustang 5.0's of the early 80's, they had crap for brakes. Couldn't even lock them up above 70mph. But that was back in the 55mph days. I think they had 10 inch disks up front and 9 inch drums in the rear, with 15 inch wheels. Sheeeeez. I use to setup those cars with Rancho "Track" sway bars, the only way to drive was to "Grab A Handful Of Stick" and scrub off your speed sliding sideways into corners. If anyone in the Massachusetts Route 128 area ever saw a 5.0 sliding sideways at 80 mph on exit ramp at that time, it was probably me. LOL

REDLINE426 wrote:

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> > >While still on the topic, I take myself in double clutching and heel > >and toe almost every time i shift down now. Too bad the silly Golf > >has such boring engine, so pedestrians doesn't get to hear the > >throttle burp :) But I don't think the next step which is shifting > >without the clutch is something I want to do :) > > >-- > >Olav K. Malmin > >remove .spam when replying > > LOL, Double Clutching and Left Foot Braking on a passenger car. > > If you do either you are a mechanic's dream or nightmare. > > First off, passenger cars are not "Race Cars". Double Clutching on a > passenger car will do nothing but shorten the life of your transmission > sycro's. Remember those? they were designed to make manual transmissions > shift easier. > Ya know what they really are? Little brakes that slow the spinning gears so > that the dogs that engage the gears will slide into each other effortlessly. > Double clutching just make these little (Brass) brakes work twice, thus > shortening the life of your transmission in half, IMO.

Ok, then explain this to me, if Olav perfects his double declutching technique and manages to perfectly match the engine revs to the revs of the gearbox at the time, how can this *increase* the wear on the syncros when this means that the syncros won't have to do any work at all, Olav has already done the work for them ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Your mother-in-law is, perhaps, an example of how not to left foot brake. Otherwise I'm sure she's a perfectly wonderful person. Right? :) I left foot brake in sims to be able to use the brake and throttle together to trail brake and to effect the balance in a turn. In real cars I instinctively use left foot braking with an automatic trans and right foot with a manual. Marty Dave Henrie wrote:

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> Auto brake mechanics can almost always tell if a driver of an automatic is > left foot braking. (most other drivers can too! The brake lights are > always on!!) Left foot brakers tend to leave their foot on the brake pedal, > which in many cars will ever-so-slightly bring the brake pads/pucks in > contact with the disc or drum resulting in excessive brake wear. Fuel > mileage tends to suffer, performance is slightly degraded...My mother-in-law > was a prime example. > dave henrie > "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "Joakim Lauridsen" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > ".." <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Do you do left-foot braking? > > > > > > I do in both my real car and my Eagle.... Of course I have an automatic > > > gearbox in my car, but still use my left when braking in a "normal" car, > if > > > I don+t have to change gear. > > > > wehey! I've tried it a few times, but it's difficult, very > > difficult. Tried to left-foot brake when I drove Route 1 in a Mustang > > automatic last year. Combined with having the gear lever on 2 it > > worked pretty well to take those corners close to speed limit. :) > > > > -- > > Olav K. Malmin > > remove .spam when replying

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > REDLINE426 wrote: > > First off, passenger cars are not "Race Cars". Double Clutching on a > > passenger car will do nothing but shorten the life of your transmission > > sycro's. Remember those? they were designed to make manual transmissions > > shift easier. > > Ya know what they really are? Little brakes that slow the spinning gears so > > that the dogs that engage the gears will slide into each other effortlessly. > > Double clutching just make these little (Brass) brakes work twice, thus > > shortening the life of your transmission in half, IMO. > > Ok, then explain this to me, if Olav perfects his double declutching > technique and manages to perfectly match the engine revs to the revs of > the gearbox at the time, how can this *increase* the wear on the syncros > when this means that the syncros won't have to do any work at all, Olav > has already done the work for them ?

You know how the gears go in *really* *easily* when you get a double-declutched downshift just right? Big hint: less force on the shift mechanism mean less wear in the gearbox... Mr 426 is talking rubbish, I'm afraid. Either that, or he's got no clue at all about the rev-matching part of double-declutching :-) Jonny

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> writes:

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> REDLINE426 wrote: > > > > >While still on the topic, I take myself in double clutching and heel > > >and toe almost every time i shift down now. Too bad the silly Golf > > >has such boring engine, so pedestrians doesn't get to hear the > > >throttle burp :) But I don't think the next step which is shifting > > >without the clutch is something I want to do :) > > > > >-- > > >Olav K. Malmin > > >remove .spam when replying > > > > LOL, Double Clutching and Left Foot Braking on a passenger car. > > > > If you do either you are a mechanic's dream or nightmare. > > > > First off, passenger cars are not "Race Cars". Double Clutching on a > > passenger car will do nothing but shorten the life of your transmission > > sycro's. Remember those? they were designed to make manual transmissions > > shift easier. > > Ya know what they really are? Little brakes that slow the spinning gears so > > that the dogs that engage the gears will slide into each other effortlessly. > > Double clutching just make these little (Brass) brakes work twice, thus > > shortening the life of your transmission in half, IMO. > > Ok, then explain this to me, if Olav perfects his double declutching > technique and manages to perfectly match the engine revs to the revs of > the gearbox at the time, how can this *increase* the wear on the syncros > when this means that the syncros won't have to do any work at all, Olav > has already done the work for them ?

What Goy said. :) It actually extends the life of the gearbox, and gives a smoother ride. With a real wheel driven car it is also essensial on snowy and icy roads, so the rears doesn't lock up. As for left foot braking, that's not a habit, just something I do for fun when driving automatic. When driving manual the left foot in needed for the clutch to gear down in tight turns :) And I promise you, the roads on the western parts of Norway makes Route 1 look like a highway. My american relative wouldn't believe me when I told him it was only one lane, "in each direction he asked", "No, one lane" I said :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

[email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes: > It actually extends the life of the gearbox, and gives a smoother > ride. With a real wheel driven car it is also essensial on snowy and > icy roads, so the rears doesn't lock up. As opposed to a virtual wheel driven car? -- -asbjxrn

[email hidden] (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) writes:

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> [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes: > > > It actually extends the life of the gearbox, and gives a smoother > > ride. With a real wheel driven car it is also essensial on snowy and > > icy roads, so the rears doesn't lock up. > > As opposed to a virtual wheel driven car?

Bonks head againt keyboard. t6vf g (there) I'm still having some problem adjusting to the new Logitech Desktop Pro split type keyboard. Nice concept though, virtual wheel driven car, but probably no GPL -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

[email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes:

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> [email hidden] (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) writes: > > > [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes: > > > > > It actually extends the life of the gearbox, and gives a smoother > > > ride. With a real wheel driven car it is also essensial on snowy and > > > icy roads, so the rears doesn't lock up. > > > > As opposed to a virtual wheel driven car? > > Bonks head againt keyboard. t6vf g (there) I'm still having some > problem adjusting to the new Logitech Desktop Pro split type > keyboard.

I can understand that it is hard to adjust to if it has l and r close together... :-) > Nice concept though, virtual wheel driven car, but probably no GPL :-) -- -asbjxrn

Jonny Hodgson wrote:

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> > Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > REDLINE426 wrote: > > > > First off, passenger cars are not "Race Cars". Double Clutching on a > > > passenger car will do nothing but shorten the life of your transmission > > > sycro's. Remember those? they were designed to make manual transmissions > > > shift easier. > > > Ya know what they really are? Little brakes that slow the spinning gears so > > > that the dogs that engage the gears will slide into each other effortlessly. > > > Double clutching just make these little (Brass) brakes work twice, thus > > > shortening the life of your transmission in half, IMO. > > > > Ok, then explain this to me, if Olav perfects his double declutching > > technique and manages to perfectly match the engine revs to the revs of > > the gearbox at the time, how can this *increase* the wear on the syncros > > when this means that the syncros won't have to do any work at all, Olav > > has already done the work for them ? > > You know how the gears go in *really* *easily* when you > get a double-declutched downshift just right? Big hint: > less force on the shift mechanism mean less wear in the > gearbox... > > Mr 426 is talking rubbish, I'm afraid. Either that, or > he's got no clue at all about the rev-matching part of > double-declutching :-)

I hate when people who knows what they are talking about ruins my cleverly disguised traps.....:-), I used to own a 1942 Willys MB with broken syncro rings, double-declutching soon became second nature...:-), fun car though, wish I still had it, 140 cui of raw power and a 3 speed gearbox...... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

"Olav K. Malmin" wrote:

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> > [email hidden] (Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad) writes: > > > [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes: > > > > > It actually extends the life of the gearbox, and gives a smoother > > > ride. With a real wheel driven car it is also essensial on snowy and > > > icy roads, so the rears doesn't lock up. > > > > As opposed to a virtual wheel driven car? > > Bonks head againt keyboard. t6vf g (there) I'm still having some > problem adjusting to the new Logitech Desktop Pro split type > keyboard. > > Nice concept though, virtual wheel driven car, but probably no GPL

Bring back "freewheeling" I say, my dad used to drive 2-stroke SAAB's, not much engine braking with those though Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Ok, then explain this to me, if Olav perfects his double declutching > > > technique and manages to perfectly match the engine revs to the revs of > > > the gearbox at the time, how can this *increase* the wear on the syncros > > > when this means that the syncros won't have to do any work at all, Olav > > > has already done the work for them ? > > > > You know how the gears go in *really* *easily* when you > > get a double-declutched downshift just right? Big hint: > > less force on the shift mechanism mean less wear in the > > gearbox... > I hate when people who knows what they are talking about ruins my > cleverly disguised traps.....:-), I used to own a 1942 Willys MB with > broken syncro rings, double-declutching soon became second nature...:-), > fun car though, wish I still had it, 140 cui of raw power and a 3 speed > gearbox......

Saaaa - reeeeee... :-) Jonny

Jonny Hodgson wrote:

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> > Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > > > Ok, then explain this to me, if Olav perfects his double declutching > > > > technique and manages to perfectly match the engine revs to the revs of > > > > the gearbox at the time, how can this *increase* the wear on the syncros > > > > when this means that the syncros won't have to do any work at all, Olav > > > > has already done the work for them ? > > > > > > You know how the gears go in *really* *easily* when you > > > get a double-declutched downshift just right? Big hint: > > > less force on the shift mechanism mean less wear in the > > > gearbox... > > > I hate when people who knows what they are talking about ruins my > > cleverly disguised traps.....:-), I used to own a 1942 Willys MB with > > broken syncro rings, double-declutching soon became second nature...:-), > > fun car though, wish I still had it, 140 cui of raw power and a 3 speed > > gearbox...... > > Saaaa - reeeeee... :-)

Well, you'll have to make amends, 3 hours of playing Bill Elliot's Nascar challenge awaits you..... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > I hate when people who knows what they are talking about ruins my > > > cleverly disguised traps.....:-), I used to own a 1942 Willys MB with > > > broken syncro rings, double-declutching soon became second nature...:-), > > > fun car though, wish I still had it, 140 cui of raw power and a 3 speed > > > gearbox...... > > > > Saaaa - reeeeee... :-) > > Well, you'll have to make amends, 3 hours of playing Bill Elliot's > Nascar challenge awaits you.....

Aargh, no, must turn right! :-p Jonny

Jonny Hodgson wrote:

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> > Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > > > I hate when people who knows what they are talking about ruins my > > > > cleverly disguised traps.....:-), I used to own a 1942 Willys MB with > > > > broken syncro rings, double-declutching soon became second nature...:-), > > > > fun car though, wish I still had it, 140 cui of raw power and a 3 speed > > > > gearbox...... > > > > > > Saaaa - reeeeee... :-) > > > > Well, you'll have to make amends, 3 hours of playing Bill Elliot's > > Nascar challenge awaits you..... > > Aargh, no, must turn right! :-p

In that case, you can chose to spend the same time with DJV8 Racing instead.....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

This is cheating ;-) Yup BTW JensSchumi On 27 Nov 2001 04:53:47 GMT, [email hidden] (..) wrote: >Do you do left-foot braking? --------------------------------------------- LWFF Ball Bearing conversion at: http://jensschumi.tripod.com/ GPLRank: -14.82 Monsters of GPL: sub 95

Ah Yes, The subject of double clutching always seems to bring out the idiots on the net. http://forums.caranddriver.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000297.html Some even have the insane opinion of double clutching on the up shift, and shifting for motorcycles, LOL >Too bad the silly Golf has such boring engine, so pedestrians doesn't getto hear the throttle burp :) Olav your answer can be found here; http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/1996/December/11.html For all the other knuckleheads that think I'm talking rubbish, I won't even try to explain technically the reason why not to double clutch synchromesh transmissions, as I'm sure you have no understanding of modern mechanical transmissions at all. I'll just refer the opinion of the Chief Instructor at the Porsche Driving Experience and 10 time Endurance race winner Hurley Haywood. "My assigned professional driver was Hurley Haywood, a long-time Porsche team driver and winner of both LeMans and Daytona" "The manual gear shifter was easy to shift but felt a bit floppy. Double-clutching or heel-and-toeing are not needed to shift down into a lower gear - "double-clutching is for truck drivers" said Hurley - the six-speed's syncromesh operation is smooth enough to handle quick shifts and sudden engine loads." Found in an article here; http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/gw/911.htm Hurley Haywood Reference Instructor at the Porsche Driving Experience http://www.porschedriving.com/indexa.html Hurley Haywood - The Master of Endurance Racing Five victories in the 24 Hours of Daytona. Three more at the Mecca of sports car racing, Le Mans, and two wins in the 12 Hours of Sebring http://www.limerock.com/LRP-News/articles/news84.html Hurley Haywood, The Glen's Winningest Driver http://www.grand-am.com/news/nr_08-15-00_1.html Three-time 24 Hours of Le Mans winner Hurley Haywood driving the Porsche 962C that won that race in 1987. ... http://www.scheuern.com/mbhist98/p962a.htm Daytona 24 Hour Multiple winners: Hurley Haywood (5) http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0201513.html 12 Hours Of Sebring Records Most Top 10 Finishes http://www.sebringraceway.com/records.html The 24 Hours of Le Mans Multiple winners http://www.infoplease.com/ipsa/A0201512.html Motorsport.com An interview with Hurley Haywood http://www.motorsport.com/magazine/feature.asp?C=Special&D=2000-08-15 -- Daytona Beach - Winter Speed Carnival 1903 - 1935 1919 - Ralph DePalma Driving Champion and winner of hundreds of races, sets new 1 mile record driving 905 cubic inch V-12 Packard on beach at 149.875 mph. DePalma also sets World Records for distances of 2 to 20 miles and standing mile. His standing mile record of 92.713 mph is unbroken for 36 years.

Clutch-in shift to neutral clutch-out blip the gas clutch-in select next lower gear clutch-out The point of this is to match internal shaft speeds of the transmission. Synchros on street cars do this automatically, but race engines often do not have the feature as they are more complex maintain. Practicing this on the street has the added benefit of extending the life of your synchros. John "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes: > > > While still on the topic, I take myself in double clutching and heel > > and toe almost every time i shift down now. > > hm. double clutching... what's that? > > > -- > Gunnar > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 > gitaren er en sjingke

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The links referenced mention the potential for increased clutch wear, but nothing about: "Double Clutching on a passenger car will do nothing but shorten the life of your transmission sycro's" ______________________________________________________________________ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored News Source

Thanx I always wondered why it was called 'double-clutching' ever since I was too young to drive. Once I was driving, I understood that double-clutching and heel-toe were somewhat synonymous, but I never understood why it was call double-clutching.. you're only clutching once. Blipping the throttle, maybe, or two footing, or heel-toeing (or side-foot, side-footing as I do it), but anything but double-clutching. Now I get it. thank-you! BTW, why do you have to unclutch to blip the throttle? (I guess it's a synchro thing? - the only synchro-less vehicle I've ever driven was my old austin cambridge but that was only first gear) curtis "John Mullins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Clutch-in > shift to neutral > clutch-out > blip the gas > clutch-in > select next lower gear > clutch-out > > The point of this is to match internal shaft speeds of the transmission. > Synchros on street cars do this automatically, but race engines often do

not > have the feature as they are more complex maintain. Practicing this onthe

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> street has the added benefit of extending the life of your synchros. > > John > > "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) writes: > > > > > While still on the topic, I take myself in double clutching and heel > > > and toe almost every time i shift down now. > > > > hm. double clutching... what's that? > > > > > > -- > > Gunnar > > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�:

2 > > gitaren er en sjingke > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 -http://www.uncensored-news.com > With NINE Servers In California And Texas - The Worlds Uncensored NewsSource >

"imaswinger" <[email hidden]> writes: > BTW, why do you have to unclutch to blip the throttle? (I guess it's a > synchro thing? - the only synchro-less vehicle I've ever driven was my old > austin cambridge but that was only first gear) To "rev up" the engine side of the gearbox. If you don't unclutch you only rev up the engine not the actual gears. -- -asbjxrn

"REDLINE426" wrote... > Ah Yes, The subject of double clutching always seems to bring > out the idiots on the net. Indeed. > http://forums.caranddriver.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000297.html > > Some even have the insane opinion of double clutching on the up > shift, and shifting for motorcycles, LOL Ok, so some people unconnected to this thread are ill-informed as to what, how and which vehicle... your point being? > > Too bad the silly Golf has such boring engine, so pedestrians > > doesn't get to hear the throttle burp :) > Olav your answer can be found here; > http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/1996/December/11.html Oh dear... anyhow, Tom and Ray seem to be of the opinion, like myself, that there's not enough to the technique, however badly performed, to geopardise the reliability of modern passenger car transmissions. > For all the other knuckleheads that think I'm talking rubbish, > I won't even try to explain technically the reason why not to > double clutch synchromesh transmissions, as I'm sure you have no > understanding of modern mechanical transmissions at all. Careful, some of us might decide to expand on our basic understanding and really take you to the cleaners.

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> I'll just refer the opinion of the Chief Instructor at the Porsche > Driving Experience and 10 time Endurance race winner Hurley Haywood. > > "My assigned professional driver was Hurley Haywood, a long-time > Porsche team driver and winner of both LeMans and Daytona" > > "The manual gear shifter was easy to shift but felt a bit floppy. > Double-clutching or heel-and-toeing are not needed to shift down > into a lower gear - "double-clutching is for truck drivers" said > Hurley - the six-speed's syncromesh operation is smooth enough to > handle quick shifts and sudden engine loads." > <Haywoods resume snipped>

Two things: 1) Porsches use "cone type" synchromesh, which cannot be shifted without using the clutch, does not benifit from the driver attempting to match the revs and is a pretty rare at the moment. As for the clutch... I dare you to show any passenger car clutch suffers less from dragging the engine (which is being starved of mixture) and flywheel up to road speed than it does from two applications which are virtually unloaded (the shift into neutral and then back into gear with matched revs). Clutch cable assemby and return spring aside, of course. 2) It's more than a little unfair to compare a race tuned Porsche to your average runabout. I have driven a race tuned Porsche and I can attest it was a joy to drive/very easy to shift. On the other hand, in my everyday car, I take pot luck whether or not letting out the clutch will be smooth or produce a nasty/embarrassing jolt. Therefore I double clutch and blip every non-braking downshift for smoothness sake... I know I don't have to: I can also blip the throttle as I move the gear level through neutral on a single clutch application. I just find it easier to time it using double clutch. My car, my gearbox, my clutch, my perogative. Clear? Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: > 1) Porsches use "cone type" synchromesh, which cannot be shifted without > using the clutch, does not benifit from the driver attempting to match the > revs and is a pretty rare at the moment. Cannot? I've done it on mine. (Never mind the previous story.) -- -asbjxrn

Could be Asbjorn, as yours is front engined. Too big a generalisation on my part there. I don't know if current models still use cone type either. Let me rephrase that to "The Porsches mr. Haywood was most likely talking about..." Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. "Asbj�rn Bj�rnstad" wrote... > <snip> > Cannot? I've done it on mine. (Never mind the previous story.) > > -- > -asbjxrn

REDLINE426 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RAtO7.57708$[email hidden]...

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> I'll just refer the opinion of the Chief Instructor at the Porsche Driving > Experience and 10 time Endurance race winner Hurley Haywood. > "The manual gear shifter was easy to shift but felt a bit floppy. > Double-clutching or heel-and-toeing are not needed to shift down into a > lower gear - "double-clutching is for truck drivers" said Hurley - the > six-speed's syncromesh operation is smooth enough to handle quick shifts and > sudden engine loads."

I presume he was talking about a nice, new, expensive German car. My daily driver is a 10-year-old Pug 405. 405 gearboxes weren't the nicest in the world when they were new, so 120 000 miles later they're pretty ropey. My gearbox will *not* give me a downshift into second at any decent road speed unless I double-declutch it (usually heel'n'toe, since I tend to be braking at the time). DDC also makes for a more pleasant shift on (let me see...) Ford Transit (40 000 - 100 000+ miles); Vauxhall Cavalier (100 000+ miles); LDV Convoy (~40 000 miles); Peugeot 406 (0 - 80 000 miles) - in fact, I've yet to drive a vehicle where a well-executed DDC *doesn't* make the shift smoother. Jonny

REDLINE426 wrote: > <sigh> Not once did we mention that modern cars would benefit from double (de)clutching, we just didn't believe your statement about the same technique ruining the transmission of said means of transportation --- "The manual gear shifter was easy to shift but felt a bit floppy. Double-clutching or heel-and-toeing are not needed to shift down into a lower gear - "double-clutching is for truck drivers" said Hurley - the six-speed's syncromesh operation is smooth enough to handle quick shifts and sudden engine loads." http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/gw/911.htm --- Nothing in there that supports your claim --- http://forums.caranddriver.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000297.html --- Err.....ok, still nothing really, cept to prove there are all kinds of people out there --- http://cartalk.cars.com/Columns/Archive/1996/December/11.html --- Says nothing about abusing syncros, just that it isn't really needed, but we all knew that before So basically you've told us that it's not needed to do so, that modern cars don't benefit from it, we knew that already, what we didn't believe was your claim that that people who are double (de)clutching are ruining their transmissions, so I guess I'm one of those knuckleheads that would benefit from your vastly superior knowledge about modern mechanical transmissions Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com