iracing news

http://www.iracing.com/index.html Check the news :)

"Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > http://www.iracing.com/index.html > > Check the news :) > iRacing. never heard of them.... is Apple or iPod involved in it in any way? steve

I just noticed the Red Sox are suing the player that made the last out of the 04' World Series. He kept the ball. I mean really, if John Henry will sue over a ball then imagine what he would do if it was something that actually had a value of more the $2? I'm reasonable. When iRacing went into attack mode against Tim I gave them the benefit of the doubt but I'm seeing a trend that I despise.... When in doubt hire a stinking POS lawyer and sue everyone.... Not real sure what to think of this iRacing announcement (Anyone can hire a lawyer and a marketing team). With the bad taste in my mouth I'm not nearly as exited as I should be. Thank god for rFactor... Mitch "Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > http://www.iracing.com/index.html > > Check the news :) > > >

Well, when you finally do exit all the way, please let us all know. BK "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:KMOjf.29122$[email hidden]... > > With the bad taste in my mouth I'm not nearly as exited as I should be. >

Don't worry Bruce I won't misspell "ANAL"... "Bruce Kennewell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well, when you finally do exit all the way, please let us all know. > > BK > > "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:KMOjf.29122$[email hidden]... >> >> With the bad taste in my mouth I'm not nearly as exited as I should be. >> > >

Don't worry Bruce I won't misspell "ANAL"...

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> Well, when you finally do exit all the way, please let us all know. > BK >> With the bad taste in my mouth I'm not nearly as exited as I should be.

The question is, when do we get to race on all these millimeter perfect, realistic tracks with these super realistic simulators? "Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > http://www.iracing.com/index.html > > Check the news :) > > >

On Fri, 2 Dec 2005 16:12:46 +1100, Bruce Kennewell wrote:

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> Well, when you finally do exit all the way, please let us all know. > > BK > > "Mitch_A" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:KMOjf.29122$[email hidden]... >> >> With the bad taste in my mouth I'm not nearly as exited as I should be. >> > >

LOL! Submitted to a.h.b-o-u a second ago. Another reason to watch your speling in here 8-P All the best, uwe -- GPG Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:43900ab0$0$13315$[email hidden]... > The question is, when do we get to race on all these millimeter > perfect, realistic tracks with these super realistic simulators? /Insert stock answer: "When they're *%$# ready!" ;-) Fun stuff actually; first mention I've seen in our little corner of the world of "point clouds". Really cool imaging/surface recreation technology. Noticed any of those super-accurate 3-D recreations of the insides of human bodies circulating the news media lately? SB

"Steve Blankenship"

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>> The question is, when do we get to race on all these millimeter >> perfect, realistic tracks with these super realistic simulators? > > /Insert stock answer: "When they're *%$# ready!" ;-) > > Fun stuff actually; first mention I've seen in our little corner of > the world of "point clouds". Really cool imaging/surface recreation > technology. Noticed any of those super-accurate 3-D recreations of the > insides of human bodies circulating the news media lately? > > SB >

I can't wait. I can't wait for all the arguments this will start. i.e. "No way this track is that bumpy...why I drove it on my Bicycle 10 years ago and it was as smooth as a baby's butt..." or "This track is just not right..the angle of this turn and the camber of the banking is all wrong." Remember the problems with realism we had when N4 actually forced drivers to maintain some wheel pressure to keep the car moving straight on the ovals. This is almost BEGGING for riots. The closer we get to real, the less some of us like it. dave henrie

The problem is compounded by the fact that the closer we get to "real" in a 2-D world, the LESS real it becomes in some aspects. Gravity, centrifugal forces, inertia, the "seat of the pants" sensations....all either impossible or terribly expensive to replicate, no matter how ultra-accurate the surface of the track may be served up. I couldn't abide the "steer to the right" requirement in N4 and with a joystick it was doubly annoying. BK "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Remember the problems with realism we had when N4 actually forceddrivers > to maintain some wheel pressure to keep the car moving straight on the > ovals. This is almost BEGGING for riots. The closer we get to real, the > less some of us like it. > > dave henrie

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Steve Blankenship" >>> The question is, when do we get to race on all these millimeter >>> perfect, realistic tracks with these super realistic simulators? >> >> /Insert stock answer: "When they're *%$# ready!" ;-) >> >> Fun stuff actually; first mention I've seen in our little corner of >> the world of "point clouds". Really cool imaging/surface recreation >> technology. Noticed any of those super-accurate 3-D recreations of the >> insides of human bodies circulating the news media lately? >> >> SB > > I can't wait. I can't wait for all the arguments this will start. > > i.e. "No way this track is that bumpy...why I drove it on my Bicycle 10 > years ago and it was as smooth as a baby's butt..." or > "This track is just not right..the angle of this turn and the camber of > the banking is all wrong." > > Remember the problems with realism we had when N4 actually forced drivers > to maintain some wheel pressure to keep the car moving straight on the > ovals. This is almost BEGGING for riots. The closer we get to real, the > less some of us like it. >

Maybe, but then I think the problem with "reality" as we've experienced it in sims is not so much the reality that got in, but rather the bit that didn't. A number of devs, from the Wests to Stefano Casillo, appear to agree that the closer you get to "true" real behavior from a sim, the less accommodations you have to make for the missing bits of reality and the more natural driving becomes. Sure, the steering geometry "pull" in later Papy Nascar sims was odd at first, just because 99.9% of us hadn't driven a real car with such asymmetry before. But once you came to expect it, it became second nature and you learned to use it while driving - just like you would in real oval-bound cars, which certainly do pull. Except for Bruce. ;-) As for tracks, I'd think having laser-scanned, point-cloud-derived surfaces would pretty much do away with grounds for argument about correct track geometry. At least for real... wait for it... Licensed, Scanned tracks. That's the thing about the technology after all; the whole point(cloud!) is being able to virtually recreate something that's already existent. No imagination required; rapid, accurate prototyping guaranteed. Scan, dump the results file into the software and Shazaam! Not quite so simple really, but that's the gist of it. And of course it applies to cars and parts, too. No more arguments about car shapes, etc. Heck, you have to wonder if F1 teams are sneaking around with scanners zapping each others cars to model them in their virtual wind tunnels. Great industrial espionage potential there! Anyway, it gives anyone using it a leg up in the reality stakes over a competitor not using it. Another point of product differentiation, you know. SB PS - nice you remembered my bicycle argument against GTR. Nothing like no suspension and 20mm tires at 125psi to familiarize you with a road surface... ;-)

It's no GPL.

Nice, I'm eager to see how it looks. Sims by David K. (Papyrus) are the only ones that I feel really confortable with/have fun with. I've tried rFactor (demo), several rally games, Live For Speed, F1 by EA, Sports Car Racing, etc, but never liked the feel and/controller setup. I used to upgrade my PC for games on are regulare basis, but haven't done so since N2003. I hope that this new sim renew my interest... Chad Rogers wrote: > http://www.iracing.com/index.html > > Check the news :) > > >

> Nice, I'm eager to see how it looks. Sims by David K. (Papyrus) are the > only ones that I feel really confortable with/have fun with. I've tried > rFactor (demo), several rally games, Live For Speed, F1 by EA, Sports Car > Racing, etc, but never liked the feel and/controller setup. I used to > upgrade my PC for games on are regulare basis, but haven't done so since > N2003. I hope that this new sim renew my interest... So you're an American who only plays American made sims? At least you're not alone... :) I'd recommend you persist with some of the other sims - they really are a lot more realistic than the Papy stuff which is really showing its age now. In particular, check out the GT Legends demo. There's a Corvette in it... ;)

Actually, I'm Canadian (french Canadian actually) ;) I thought my syntax was a dead give away lol. BTW, we are not Americans... yet! Here are a few of the other sims I've tried: - Live of Speed: nice, but I found that the framerate was pretty low considering the number of cars and the resolution set. Also had a hard time configuring my TSW wheel to my liking. - GT Legends: video look nice but there's Starforce, and that copy protection software gets me nervous (even the demo has it!!!) - RBR: never was able to get my TSW to work with it. Pretty much pointless to race with the keyboard. - F1 by EA: not a big fan of F1 in any case. - GTR: tried the demo. While it was nice, I didn't like the feel. Plus the way the tires locked under braking was weird... I'm no expert, but I doubt that you need to completly release the brake and give some gas to recover from a locked wheel as it did in the demo. - Sports Car GT: nice, but I found repetitive. - Dirt Racing, Sprint car racing (games by Ratbag): all I can say, brown color. Again, controller issues. - GP4: physics? What physics? I'm missing some of the older one. I haven't tried netkar or other privateer software, maybe I should... To my knowledge/experience, the only sims that I had great fun with/ease of set up are sims by Papyrus/Sierra. Controller config is a snap, never had any install issue, graphic look nice, online racing is ok and I still play them. Of course, they are not perfect. So, yes, I'm very much looking forward to whatever comes from iRacing. If another company can produce a sim that provide me with the same experience, I'm not going to look the other way. Sorry if I sounded like a Papy fan boy. I don't see myself as such. Do you have any recommandations? Steve Simpson wrote:

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>>Nice, I'm eager to see how it looks. Sims by David K. (Papyrus) are the >>only ones that I feel really confortable with/have fun with. I've tried >>rFactor (demo), several rally games, Live For Speed, F1 by EA, Sports Car >>Racing, etc, but never liked the feel and/controller setup. I used to >>upgrade my PC for games on are regulare basis, but haven't done so since >>N2003. I hope that this new sim renew my interest... > > > So you're an American who only plays American made sims? At least you're > not alone... :) > > I'd recommend you persist with some of the other sims - they really are a > lot more realistic than the Papy stuff which is really showing its age now. > In particular, check out the GT Legends demo. There's a Corvette in it... > ;) > >

Again, it sounds like you've dismissed everything else wayyyy too quickly. The brakes in GTR is a good example. The brake pressure and bias settings are much more in depth than Papy's simplistic braking model and requires careful setup. It sounds like your wheel is severely holding you back too. Most other TSW owners have found solutions for game incompatibilities. Actually, I think TSW have listed a 100% fix on their web site for sims like RBR. I'd agree that GP4 is totally lacking in physics and the Ratbag games aren't that flash either. SCGT is getting far too old now as well. The other sims you listed though are all top notch if you know what you're doing. Judging by your fear of Starforce, I'm guessing you're not prepared to step outside of your comfort zone. I'd highly recommend it though...

"Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... <snip> The brake pressure and bias settings are much more in depth than Papy's simplistic braking model <snip> Elaborate please. Not talking about the setup choices. Thx - SB

On 2005-12-01 20:15:59 -0500, "Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> said: > http://www.iracing.com/index.html > > Check the news :) Virginia International Raceway? I'd bet the speedway barely sees any action besides oval races. What's with American's love affair with the "I" word? The IROC barely has any international starts: only drivers from NASCAR, IRL, and other oval series in the states. Yet the ROC that just took place in Paris was heavily european and had drivers from various disciplines and countries, and included Gordon and Pastrana (who incidentaly seems to crash a whole lot -- between Rally America and the Porsche Super Cup this summer at Indy). Yet no "International" prefix in the name. No 'nations cup' angle. Just a rant that simmered up in my head this past weekend...

<darek> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On 2005-12-01 20:15:59 -0500, "Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> said: > >> http://www.iracing.com/index.html >> >> Check the news :) > > Virginia International Raceway? I'd bet the speedway barely sees any > action besides oval races. What's with American's love affair with the > "I" word? > > The IROC barely has any international starts: only drivers from NASCAR, > IRL, and other oval series in the states. > > Yet the ROC that just took place in Paris was heavily european and had > drivers from various disciplines and countries, and included Gordon and > Pastrana (who incidentaly seems to crash a whole lot -- between Rally > America and the Porsche Super Cup this summer at Indy). Yet no > "International" prefix in the name. No 'nations cup' angle. > > Just a rant that simmered up in my head this past weekend... >

Don't worry about. :) Its like the baseball. World Series isn't it. Austrailia had the something similar, World Series Cricket. fine except only a few countries play it. its all just marketing. cheers steve

darek wrote: > On 2005-12-01 20:15:59 -0500, "Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> said: > > > Virginia International Raceway? I'd bet the speedway barely sees any > action besides oval races. What's with American's love affair with the > "I" word? http://www.virclub.com/vir/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=23&Itemid=106 Yeah, what with VIR being just another cookie-cutter 1.5 mile speedway and all. ;-) -jde

> Don't worry about. :) Its like the baseball. World Series isn't it. > Austrailia had the something similar, World Series Cricket. fine except > only a few countries play it. its all just marketing. World Series Cricket is far different. It has lots of countries competing against each other...Australia, England, New Zealand, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, West Indies, South Africa etc.

> <snip> > The brake pressure and bias settings are much more in depth than Papy's > simplistic braking model > <snip> > > Elaborate please. Not talking about the setup choices. It's all to do with the way grip and momentum is taken into account during braking. The suspension loading has a marked effect on grip and hence braking effect. Aside from that, most people have no problems braking in either sims so anyone who does is doing something wrong - again a sign that our friend has dismissed anything non-papy prematurely.

You're right regarding my wheel. I went on the TSW site and there's a new pdf user guide online that details how to calibrate the wheel for RBR. I will re-load the game and try it again. Steve Simpson wrote:

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> Again, it sounds like you've dismissed everything else wayyyy too quickly. > The brakes in GTR is a good example. The brake pressure and bias settings > are much more in depth than Papy's simplistic braking model and requires > careful setup. It sounds like your wheel is severely holding you back too. > Most other TSW owners have found solutions for game incompatibilities. > Actually, I think TSW have listed a 100% fix on their web site for sims like > RBR. > > I'd agree that GP4 is totally lacking in physics and the Ratbag games aren't > that flash either. SCGT is getting far too old now as well. The other sims > you listed though are all top notch if you know what you're doing. > > Judging by your fear of Starforce, I'm guessing you're not prepared to step > outside of your comfort zone. I'd highly recommend it though... > >

><darek> wrote > Virginia International Raceway? I'd bet the speedway barely sees any > action besides oval races. More the opposite. VIR is an historical track in the US that was redone completely half a decade ago. It's an incredible club-style track, with elevation changes and all. It's a perfectly fitted track for cars like the Skip Barber ones. I would love to race those type of cars, say a 30-driver multiplayer race, with the latest papy version of their game engine. 'Cause in a way I'm still calling it the Papy game engine, there's 10+ years of coding in that from them. > What's with American's love affair with the "I" word? "Internets" ? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimago-Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>> <snip> >> The brake pressure and bias settings are much more in depth than Papy's >> simplistic braking model >> <snip> >> >> Elaborate please. Not talking about the setup choices. > > It's all to do with the way grip and momentum is taken into account during > braking. The suspension loading has a marked effect on grip and hence > braking effect. > > Aside from that, most people have no problems braking in either sims so > anyone who does is doing something wrong - again a sign that our friend > has dismissed anything non-papy prematurely. >

Hmmm... Was really looking for some insight into the differences in physics modeling methods, not so much from a "feel" perspective, and it sounded like you might have some. I'm always fascinated to learn about different approaches. As far as feel goes, I don't have any complaints about the braking in GTR either, but plenty of folks have had issues with GTR's low-speed grip. That may be what's being interpreted as a braking issue. All pre-rFactor ISI-based sims have had it to some degree, but it was especially the case with GTR and it's washboard-like chattering suspension. Simbin have sorted the low-speed grip issues with GTL, which behaves much better in low speed situations. With regard to suspension loading and braking grip, it could just be the car type, as that's behavior which is highly dependent on the ratio of downforce to vehicle weight. A lighter GT car with more downforce will brake much harder, with a lot more bite than a heavy, relatively under-tired Cup car. And it will be less weight shift sensitive at moderate to high speeds, since the aero effect on tire loading is still dominant. But as speed scrubs, the downforce goes away and so does the grip, which can catch you out if you're not expecting it. Anyone not used to braking in an aero car has to adjust to the mash it, then ease off style of braking, which is sort of backwards from the way you would do it in a more softly sprung, non aero car. SB

darek wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> On 2005-12-01 20:15:59 -0500, "Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> said: > >> http://www.iracing.com/index.html >> >> Check the news :) > > Virginia International Raceway? I'd bet the speedway barely sees any > action besides oval races. What's with American's love affair with the > "I" word? > > The IROC barely has any international starts: only drivers from NASCAR, > IRL, and other oval series in the states. > > Yet the ROC that just took place in Paris was heavily european and had > drivers from various disciplines and countries, and included Gordon and > Pastrana (who incidentaly seems to crash a whole lot -- between Rally > America and the Porsche Super Cup this summer at Indy). Yet no > "International" prefix in the name. No 'nations cup' angle. > > Just a rant that simmered up in my head this past weekend... >

We ignore most of the world, most of the time. World Series has already been given as an example. Speed World Challenge, has only two countries for tracks...but does include at least one or two Euro marques in the GT class and several countries represented in the Touring Car class. But...back to my first point...we IGNORE most of the world, and get criticized for it. So we GENEROUSLY add International to remind us there actually are folks out there beyond the borders...and what do we get? More grief! lol. Racetracks and Airports seem to be the place most likely to bear the International monicker. Sometimes bridges. Never Grocery stores which often truly ARE international. dave henrie

It's called the World Series because one of the first championships was sponsored by a newspaper called SomeCity World (I think it was New York World). Amazing what bits of useless trivia stick in your head especially as I can't stand baseball. "Steve Whitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kI1lf.12061$[email hidden]...

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> > <darek> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... >> On 2005-12-01 20:15:59 -0500, "Chad Rogers" <[email hidden]> said: >> >>> http://www.iracing.com/index.html >>> >>> Check the news :) >> >> Virginia International Raceway? I'd bet the speedway barely sees any >> action besides oval races. What's with American's love affair with the >> "I" word? >> >> The IROC barely has any international starts: only drivers from NASCAR, >> IRL, and other oval series in the states. >> >> Yet the ROC that just took place in Paris was heavily european and had >> drivers from various disciplines and countries, and included Gordon and >> Pastrana (who incidentaly seems to crash a whole lot -- between Rally >> America and the Porsche Super Cup this summer at Indy). Yet no >> "International" prefix in the name. No 'nations cup' angle. >> >> Just a rant that simmered up in my head this past weekend... >> > > Don't worry about. :) Its like the baseball. World Series isn't it. > Austrailia had the something similar, World Series Cricket. fine except > only a few countries play it. its all just marketing. > > cheers > > steve >

Michael Horton wrote in news:fIulf.155744$yS6.26498@clgrps12: > It's called the World Series because one of the first > championships was sponsored by a newspaper called SomeCity World > (I think it was New York World). Amazing what bits of useless > trivia stick in your head especially as I can't stand baseball. > I believe that if you investigate this, you will find it is another Urban Myth. The World Series was *not*, in fact, sponsered by a "XXX World" newspaper. -- Darryl

You will... -Larry "Steve Whitty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rQNjf.8699$[email hidden]... > iRacing. never heard of them.... > > is Apple or iPod involved in it in any way? > > steve >

Simple media hype even then.... http://baseball-almanac.com/ws/wsmenu.shtml

>Again, it sounds like you've dismissed everything else wayyyy too quickly. Actually he's given them more of a shot then this canuck, with the exception of LFS S2 most of the other tittles go like this for me: Step 1) Ng or RSC posts: Just wait until Brand X is out, Brand X will solve all the problems and fix every issue you've ever had about Simracing, throw away everything else Brand X is it! The guys who developed Brand X are the only programmers to have ever seen a race car. long period of screen shots and demos, interjected with equal parts of uninformed pro-Brand X hype and anti-Brand X fatwas. Brand X is released. Ng or RSC posts: Brand X is great, I've thrown away all my other sims, the way the rear diff is modeled is a breaktrough. NO! Brand X has fatal flaws, you have to rub your head and pat your stomach to install it, and no way a 1971 GTO would react like that when it hit an orange cone because my granddad hit one once and I've got photos to prove the developers copied the code from a Commadore 64. Brand X 1.1 patches come out, meanwhile rumours of Brand Y version 2 and Brand Z mod surfacing. Ng or RSC posts: OK Brand X wasn't great but they've fixed it all with 1.1 and now it's even better then great. You still have to pat your head to install it and I won't do that. Forget Brand X, Brand Z is what you should be running. Visit to brand X website, maybe download a demo, see that it's minimum requirements are beyond my current PC, I start planning my upgrades. Ask regular internet racing buddies: Yes I've installed it, it's certainly interesting but either there's no tracks, or no online play or no damage model, or something's odd when you rev between 4-6k. Brand Z demo released..... Return to step 1 and repeat. Meanwhile I play the waiting game and play what works today with the machine I've got and the guys I race with, they just happen to both be Papy tittles. Neither are perfect but neither has been definatively replaced either.

"mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >Again, it sounds like you've dismissed everything else wayyyy too > >quickly. >Snippo > > Brand X 1.1 patches come out, meanwhile rumours of Brand Y version 2 > and Brand Z mod surfacing. >snip again See? Now there's your problem. You're working off the wrong end of the alphabet. Brand "A", now that is *the* one Dave the helpful

> Meanwhile I play the waiting game and play what works today with the > machine I've got and the guys I race with, they just happen to both > be Papy tittles. Neither are perfect but neither has been > definatively replaced either. Well, if iracing come up with decent tire & suspension modelling and proper physics that actually react to the polygons in front of me instead of some hiiden mathematics then I'll be kicking Brand X, Y & Z to the kerb too.

Okay when I go back to my 25 year High School reunion in a couple of years I'll hunt down my Social teacher, if he's still alive, and kick his ass. Here I finally thought something I learned in school was useful. "mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Simple media hype even then.... > > http://baseball-almanac.com/ws/wsmenu.shtml >

"Steve Simpson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4397a77e$[email hidden]...

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>> Meanwhile I play the waiting game and play what works today with the >> machine I've got and the guys I race with, they just happen to both >> be Papy tittles. Neither are perfect but neither has been >> definatively replaced either. > > Well, if iracing come up with decent tire & suspension modelling and > proper physics that actually react to the polygons in front of me instead > of some hiiden mathematics then I'll be kicking Brand X, Y & Z to the kerb > too. >

Pardon me if I sound like a broken record here, Steve, but could you elaborate on what you find mathematically wrong with the tire and suspension models in NR2003? Thanks. SB-off to find some polygons on the drive to work!

>Well, if iracing come up with decent tire & suspension modelling and proper >physics that actually react to the polygons in front of me instead of some >hiiden mathematics Don't hold your breath. The polygons are the visual representation of the results of the tire & suspension movement that is the results of the physics model. They are the tail and the physics model is the dog.

Hmmmm... An NSR affectionado :) -Larry "mcewena" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Actually he's given them more of a shot then this canuck, with the > exception of LFS S2 most of the other tittles go like this for me: > > Step 1) Ng or RSC posts: Just wait until Brand X is out, Brand X will > solve all the problems and fix every issue you've ever had about > Simracing, throw away everything else Brand X is it! The guys who > developed Brand X are the only programmers to have ever seen a race > car. > > long period of screen shots and demos, interjected with equal parts of > uninformed pro-Brand X hype and anti-Brand X fatwas. > > Brand X is released. > > Ng or RSC posts: Brand X is great, I've thrown away all my other > sims, the way the rear diff is modeled is a breaktrough. NO! Brand X > has fatal flaws, you have to rub your head and pat your stomach to > install it, and no way a 1971 GTO would react like that when it hit an > orange cone because my granddad hit one once and I've got photos to > prove the developers copied the code from a Commadore 64. > > Brand X 1.1 patches come out, meanwhile rumours of Brand Y version 2 > and Brand Z mod surfacing. > > Ng or RSC posts: OK Brand X wasn't great but they've fixed it all > with 1.1 and now it's even better then great. You still have to pat > your head to install it and I won't do that. Forget Brand X, Brand > Z is what you should be running. > > Visit to brand X website, maybe download a demo, see that it's > minimum requirements are beyond my current PC, I start planning my > upgrades. > > Ask regular internet racing buddies: Yes I've installed it, it's > certainly interesting but either there's no tracks, or no online play > or no damage model, or something's odd when you rev between 4-6k. > > Brand Z demo released..... > > Return to step 1 and repeat. > > Meanwhile I play the waiting game and play what works today with the > machine I've got and the guys I race with, they just happen to both > be Papy tittles. Neither are perfect but neither has been > definatively replaced either. >