N4 Graphics, What does it take? I give up

I give up on getting a 30+fps in this game, I have had it since the day it came out and play it every day and night and love it. I have spent a ton of $$$ trying to achive 30+fps at the highest detail all the time. Sure bymyself its 35-40. I have just upgraded my 1.5ghz, Geforce 3 to a 1.9ghz, Hercules Geforce 3 Ti500 and I am just amazed that I can only achive 25-30fps @ 1280x960, OPENGL , sure I could turn off the AA and get some better but then it looks horrible to me. Yes, I could turn down some detail but why should I have to with this kind of machine. I have tried all kinds different drivers, none seem to make any difference at all. I use rivatuner to overclock the card just a little, and turn on the other advanced settings. My goal with the last upgrade was to be able to run full detail @ 1600x1200 with AA on, I can barely get 22fps if I do this. System Specs. P4 1.9ghz 348meg of PC800 RDRAM Soundblaster Audigy Platinum EX Hercules Ti500 Geforce 3 , tried Herc, 21.81 and NVIDIA 21.83 no difference.

Hi Morris, I thought that AA doesn't work at 1600X1200. Not the supersampling method anyway, there just isn't enough ram to handle it. What size is your screen if you need AA at this res.? Ian www.SimBin.com For all your sim needs. "Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I give up on getting a 30+fps in this game, > I have had it since the day it came out and play it every day and nightand > love it. I have spent a ton of $$$ trying to achive 30+fps at the highest > detail all the time. Sure bymyself its 35-40. > I have just upgraded my 1.5ghz, Geforce 3 to a 1.9ghz, Hercules Geforce 3 > Ti500 and I am just amazed that I can only achive 25-30fps @ 1280x960, > OPENGL , > sure I could turn off the AA and get some better but then it lookshorrible > to me. Yes, I could turn down some detail but why should I have to withthis > kind of machine. I have tried all kinds different drivers, none seem tomake > any difference at all. I use rivatuner to overclock the card just alittle, > and turn on the other advanced settings. > > My goal with the last upgrade was to be able to run full detail @1600x1200

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> with AA on, I can barely get 22fps if I do this. > > System Specs. > > P4 1.9ghz > 348meg of PC800 RDRAM > Soundblaster Audigy Platinum EX > Hercules Ti500 Geforce 3 , tried Herc, 21.81 and NVIDIA 21.83 no

difference. > > > > >

Well, unfortunately, the AA is your fps killer, especially at those high resolutions. Is kind of strange though; I don't run offline much at all, but back of the pack at night Bristol, 43 car field, maxed out, I get 50-60 fps with a P4 1.4 rig and an MX 2, 32 meg card. However, that's at 1280/768 with no AA. -John Morris Jones <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I give up on getting a 30+fps in this game, > I have had it since the day it came out and play it every day and nightand > love it. I have spent a ton of $$$ trying to achive 30+fps at the highest > detail all the time. Sure bymyself its 35-40. > I have just upgraded my 1.5ghz, Geforce 3 to a 1.9ghz, Hercules Geforce 3 > Ti500 and I am just amazed that I can only achive 25-30fps @ 1280x960, > OPENGL , > sure I could turn off the AA and get some better but then it lookshorrible > to me. Yes, I could turn down some detail but why should I have to withthis > kind of machine. I have tried all kinds different drivers, none seem tomake > any difference at all. I use rivatuner to overclock the card just alittle, > and turn on the other advanced settings. > > My goal with the last upgrade was to be able to run full detail @1600x1200

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> with AA on, I can barely get 22fps if I do this. > > System Specs. > > P4 1.9ghz > 348meg of PC800 RDRAM > Soundblaster Audigy Platinum EX > Hercules Ti500 Geforce 3 , tried Herc, 21.81 and NVIDIA 21.83 no

difference. > > > > >

Did you try D3D ? "Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I give up on getting a 30+fps in this game, > I have had it since the day it came out and play it every day and nightand > love it. I have spent a ton of $$$ trying to achive 30+fps at the highest > detail all the time. Sure bymyself its 35-40. > I have just upgraded my 1.5ghz, Geforce 3 to a 1.9ghz, Hercules Geforce 3 > Ti500 and I am just amazed that I can only achive 25-30fps @ 1280x960, > OPENGL , > sure I could turn off the AA and get some better but then it lookshorrible > to me. Yes, I could turn down some detail but why should I have to withthis > kind of machine. I have tried all kinds different drivers, none seem tomake > any difference at all. I use rivatuner to overclock the card just alittle, > and turn on the other advanced settings. > > My goal with the last upgrade was to be able to run full detail @1600x1200

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> with AA on, I can barely get 22fps if I do this. > > System Specs. > > P4 1.9ghz > 348meg of PC800 RDRAM > Soundblaster Audigy Platinum EX > Hercules Ti500 Geforce 3 , tried Herc, 21.81 and NVIDIA 21.83 no

difference. > > > > >

Hi Morris, have you switched Vsync off? I'd also switch Dynamic Highlighting off - an option whose effect on overall image quality is questionable. Maybe set Drawing Distance in mirror to 50%. I'd use 16 bit colour, as N4's graphics are all 16 bit anyway I think, so going to 32bit will only slow the machine down without getting any better graphics quality. I can only speak from the Athlon side, but you should get fps between 50 and 90 with that both online and offline, with an average fps of around 60 I'd say, with 3D sound and EAX enabled. If not, maybe use only 2xFSAA, as that looks pretty good already at 1280x960. You might also disable 3d sound, but the Audigy is pretty quick (I have one as well) and you shouldn't have to do that. If you're really into image quality, have a look at the 23.10 or 23.11 drivers. On my system, they improved the image quality noticeably under OpenGL. Achim

You shouldn't look it like that. Some Effects are put in just because they are possible, not to fit into todeys hardware strenght. In lot of games thay put specular lightning. It brings little, and it is hog for every system (I have GF2, don't know about GF3 though). But who wants it, can have it. On the expense of few FPS, of course. If I remember correctly, when I built a system that could run all that GPL had to offer, GPL was allredy out of production. Lol "Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Yes, I could turn down some detail but why should I have to with this > kind of machine.

"Incubus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4XqQ7.60138$[email hidden]... > Did you try D3D ? D3D is slower in N4 than OpenGL. He just has to suck it up and turn off FSAA and ansiotropic(sp?) filtering if he has it on. Also make sure the draw ahead and behind is not at 100%. At Daytona on the track by myself I get over 90fps on an AMD 1.33ghz with a Radeon 8500, but in the race it varies from about 28fps to 60fps.And I don't use FSAA either, but at least my settings make for a playable game.

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9utfjn$att92$[email hidden]... > Hi Morris, > > have you switched Vsync off? If you are using a refresh rate of 85hz on your monitor do you really need over 85fps in any game? Vsync off causes tearing so I prefer to leave it on myself. I'd also switch Dynamic Highlighting off - an > option whose effect on overall image quality is questionable. Maybe set > Drawing Distance in mirror to 50%. I'd use 16 bit colour, as N4's graphics > are all 16 bit anyway I think, so going to 32bit will only slow themachine > down without getting any better graphics quality. > > I can only speak from the Athlon side, but you should get fps between 50and > 90 with that both online and offline, with an average fps of around 60 I'd > say, with 3D sound and EAX enabled. > > If not, maybe use only 2xFSAA, as that looks pretty good already at > 1280x960. You might also disable 3d sound, but the Audigy is pretty quick(I

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> have one as well) and you shouldn't have to do that. > > If you're really into image quality, have a look at the 23.10 or 23.11 > drivers. On my system, they improved the image quality noticeably under > OpenGL. > > Achim > >

Hi STP, I wouldn't recommend anything that doesn't work well for me. Vsync OFF doesn't cause tearing on my setup. The purpose of disabling Vsync for me isn't to get more than 85fps BTW. For all I know (and tests on my systems seem to have confirmed this), Vsync ON can reduce fps even when you're aiming at an fps lower than the vertical screen frequency. As I understand it, Vsync ON means whenever a new image has been drawn into the graphics card's RAM and is ready for being displayed, the card waits until the monitor has finished its current scan run before displaying the image. If this happens often, I'd guess fps may drop quite a bit due to these waits. Maybe modern graphics cards handle this differently, so I won't insist that the above still holds true, but theories aside, I've found that turning Vsync OFF always and reliably increases the fps for me, even if it was lower than the screen refresh rate anyway. Even on this GF3. Achim "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:egHQ7.8613$[email hidden]...

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> > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9utfjn$att92$[email hidden]... > > Hi Morris, > > > > have you switched Vsync off? > > If you are using a refresh rate of 85hz on your monitor do you really need > over 85fps in any game? Vsync off causes tearing so I prefer to leave it

on > myself. > I'd also switch Dynamic Highlighting off - an > > option whose effect on overall image quality is questionable. Maybe set > > Drawing Distance in mirror to 50%. I'd use 16 bit colour, as N4'sgraphics

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> > are all 16 bit anyway I think, so going to 32bit will only slow the > machine > > down without getting any better graphics quality. > > > > I can only speak from the Athlon side, but you should get fps between 50 > and > > 90 with that both online and offline, with an average fps of around 60

I'd > > say, with 3D sound and EAX enabled. > > > > If not, maybe use only 2xFSAA, as that looks pretty good already at > > 1280x960. You might also disable 3d sound, but the Audigy is prettyquick

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> (I > > have one as well) and you shouldn't have to do that. > > > > If you're really into image quality, have a look at the 23.10 or 23.11 > > drivers. On my system, they improved the image quality noticeably under > > OpenGL. > > > > Achim > > > > > >

Took me a long time to realize that all I had to do was hit the f key to turn off frame rate on the screen. Hey if it looks OK to your eyes, don't worry about numbers.

"sure I could turn off the AA" Alright, this has to be one of the most stupid posts in the history of this board. Morris whines and complains and moans and gripes because he can't get more that 30 fps at the highest resolution with AA ON. Gimme a break. Turn off the AA and run it at 1600 res. It should look fine and you would be very amazed at what FPS you would get. I swear, some people are just silly. Vintook

Can't fight AA... Not sure why you don't think the quality is good. I run at 1280X1024 (AA off, sync off) and push close to 100fps sometimes. Average is around 70fps. And it looks very, very good to me. Similar system. GeForce 3 Ti500/AthlonXP 1800+. -Larry "Morris Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I give up on getting a 30+fps in this game, > I have had it since the day it came out and play it every day and nightand > love it. I have spent a ton of $$$ trying to achive 30+fps at the highest > detail all the time. Sure bymyself its 35-40. > I have just upgraded my 1.5ghz, Geforce 3 to a 1.9ghz, Hercules Geforce 3 > Ti500 and I am just amazed that I can only achive 25-30fps @ 1280x960, > OPENGL , > sure I could turn off the AA and get some better but then it lookshorrible > to me. Yes, I could turn down some detail but why should I have to withthis > kind of machine. I have tried all kinds different drivers, none seem tomake > any difference at all. I use rivatuner to overclock the card just alittle, > and turn on the other advanced settings. > > My goal with the last upgrade was to be able to run full detail @1600x1200

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> with AA on, I can barely get 22fps if I do this. > > System Specs. > > P4 1.9ghz > 348meg of PC800 RDRAM > Soundblaster Audigy Platinum EX > Hercules Ti500 Geforce 3 , tried Herc, 21.81 and NVIDIA 21.83 no

difference. > > > > >

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9uvk1h$bnb1e$[email hidden]... > Hi STP, > > I wouldn't recommend anything that doesn't work well for me. Vsync OFF > doesn't cause tearing on my setup. Well, I'll try it on and off to check, but I do see tearing on the R8500 with it off.

Hi STP, I used to see tearing on the V3-3000 in Flight Unlimited for example, and also in GPL. But with the Geforce, luckily so far it has never appeared. I am convinced, though, that tearing is a driver issue to a large extent. Achim "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:4O5R7.8748$[email hidden]...

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> > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9uvk1h$bnb1e$[email hidden]... > > Hi STP, > > > > I wouldn't recommend anything that doesn't work well for me. Vsync OFF > > doesn't cause tearing on my setup. > > Well, I'll try it on and off to check, but I do see tearing on the R8500 > with it off. > >

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9v36s0$cj0qh$[email hidden]...

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> Hi STP, > > I used to see tearing on the V3-3000 in Flight Unlimited for example, and > also in GPL. But with the Geforce, luckily so far it has never appeared. > > I am convinced, though, that tearing is a driver issue to a large extent. > > Achim

You are probably right because I never noticed tearing on a GF2 or GF3 with Vsync off. Maybe it depends on the game too.

The only game I've ever seen tearing on is SCGT, and that's only on the 'curbs' on some of the tracks. However, I have always suspected it may be mip-mapping that causes that in SCGT. -Larry "STP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TwjR7.8826$[email hidden]... > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9v36s0$cj0qh$[email hidden]... > > Hi STP, > > > > I used to see tearing on the V3-3000 in Flight Unlimited for example,and > > also in GPL. But with the Geforce, luckily so far it has never appeared. > > > > I am convinced, though, that tearing is a driver issue to a largeextent. > > > > Achim > > You are probably right because I never noticed tearing on a GF2 or GF3with > Vsync off. Maybe it depends on the game too. > >

Strange, u must be doing something wrong, on my AthlonXP 1466/GF3 (220/500) i get on average 50-80fps on most tracks in 1280x920 Quincux AA on (16bit color Opengl). And no,i dont notice that much of a difference between 16/32bits color. I do like to have AA on tho, thats something u get hooked on for sure, i get the chills when i see jaggies :-( Think u have some tweaking to do, instead of spending millions on faster hardware. Rem. Vintook wrote:

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> "sure I could turn off the AA" > > Alright, this has to be one of the most stupid posts in the history of this > board. Morris whines and complains and moans and gripes because he can't get > more that 30 fps at the highest resolution with AA ON. Gimme a break. Turn > off the AA and run it at 1600 res. It should look fine and you would be very > amazed at what FPS you would get. > > I swear, some people are just silly. > > Vintook > > > >