clutches and sims, how well implamented?

How well are clutches implemented in sims like GPL and N4? If you use a pedal, is it analog where you can slip the clutch? Can you stall the engine? In other words, is the implementation good enough now a days to warrant getting a clutch pedal to enhance the simulation experience? How are the hardware options for clutch pedals? I've seen some expensive ones, but only the Act Labs hardware seams to be in the affordable range. Recommendations? Experiences? Thanks, Russell

R Keating wrote: > > How well are clutches implemented in sims like GPL and N4? If you use a > pedal, is it analog where you can slip the clutch? Yes, it's analog, but most sims have a really short clutch. The clutch engagement should be completely configurable I think. > Can you stall the > engine? In other words, is the implementation good enough now a days to > warrant getting a clutch pedal to enhance the simulation experience? F1 2001 is the only one I know of where you will stall the motor. You can't restart it on the track, you have to exit to the garage. It's kind of a neat penalty for spinning. It's second nature for me to stomp on the clutch pedal when I spin to keep the engine running. N4 and GPL let you cheat on this. In N4, you ought to at least have to re-start the car. I don't know if '67 cars had on board starters. > How are the hardware options for clutch pedals? I've seen some expensive > ones, but only the Act Labs hardware seams to be in the affordable range. > Recommendations? Experiences? Go ACT Labs. You won't regret it. -- Pat Dotson

Pat Dotson wrote: > > R Keating wrote:<snip> > don't know if '67 cars had on board starters. I actually push started Rindt's car at the Glen, in, I think '67. Maybe we would have pushed the car anyway, but I don't think the mechanic cranked it first with a starter. Anyway I have been waiting almost 3 years to tell this story here! ;-) This happened when the mechanic came around after the end of practice. He got in the seat and about four of us took up positions around the back of the car. What a sound and feeling when that engine roared to life and the exhaust seemed to be blasting right through me -- I guess something else was about to do just that too, and someone who knows about engines -- standing and pushing on the right rear wheel almost flew up to tap the mechanic on the head and tell him to shut it down as he gesticulated that he saw a big hole in the motor! Checking Autocourse 1967-68 pg.134 "...(Rindt had taken over Ickx's car after the new lightweight Cooper put a rod through the sump.) If this was during the Friday afternoon practice session. Rindt had stopped the car on the right side of track around Wedgewood (east) just past the esses. He got out and jogged back down the hill towards the pits. As you can imagine I hope this was Rindt in '67 because of GPL. He had a breakdown another year too, but that was on a Saturday and I don't think I would have been standing there with just 4 other guys on a Saturday at the Glen! Imagine doing anything like this in Bernie's F1 of today. So sad what has been lost to the fans... arcman <snip> > Pat Dotson

You can stall the engine in F1RC too. David G Fisher "Pat Dotson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> R Keating wrote: > > > > How well are clutches implemented in sims like GPL and N4? If you use a > > pedal, is it analog where you can slip the clutch? > > Yes, it's analog, but most sims have a really short > clutch. The clutch engagement should be completely > configurable I think. > > > Can you stall the > > engine? In other words, is the implementation good enough now a days to > > warrant getting a clutch pedal to enhance the simulation experience? > > F1 2001 is the only one I know of where you will > stall the motor. You can't restart it on the > track, you have to exit to the garage. It's > kind of a neat penalty for spinning. It's > second nature for me to stomp on the clutch > pedal when I spin to keep the engine running. > > N4 and GPL let you cheat on this. In N4, you > ought to at least have to re-start the car. I > don't know if '67 cars had on board starters. > > > How are the hardware options for clutch pedals? I've seen some

expensive > > ones, but only the Act Labs hardware seams to be in the affordablerange. > > Recommendations? Experiences? > > Go ACT Labs. You won't regret it. > > -- > Pat Dotson

>"Christopher G Rossie" <[email hidden]> wrote > I actually push started Rindt's car at the Glen, in, I think '67. > Maybe we would have pushed the car anyway, but I don't think the > mechanic cranked it first with a starter. <drool>. Thanks for the story, we envy your memories! IIRC it's the reason for the false grid back then, they pushed the cars no? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- May the Downforce be with you... -- http://www.ymenard.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Nascar Heat and all its mods have an analog clutch option also, allowing you the pleasures of: stalling the engine if you stop in gear without declutching; losing the rear end by downshifting without blipping the throttle to match revs; and overrevving the engine if you don't lift when upshifting. I suppose the same applies to Viper, too. Cheers, SB "R Keating" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9v93lq$71h$[email hidden]...

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> How well are clutches implemented in sims like GPL and N4? If you use a > pedal, is it analog where you can slip the clutch? Can you stall the > engine? In other words, is the implementation good enough now a days to > warrant getting a clutch pedal to enhance the simulation experience? > > How are the hardware options for clutch pedals? I've seen some expensive > ones, but only the Act Labs hardware seams to be in the affordable range. > Recommendations? Experiences?

As much as I hate to admit it, Nascar Heat does a much better job of clutch implementation that N4, IMO. In heat it seems that you can actually slip the clutch, while N4 seems like a switch. "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:G65S7.62599$[email hidden]... > Nascar Heat and all its mods have an analog clutch option also, allowingyou the pleasures of: stalling the engine if you stop in > gear without declutching; losing the rear end by downshifting withoutblipping the throttle to match revs; and overrevving the > engine if you don't lift when upshifting. I suppose the same applies toViper, too. > > Cheers, > > SB > > "R Keating" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:9v93lq$71h$[email hidden]... > > How well are clutches implemented in sims like GPL and N4? If you use a > > pedal, is it analog where you can slip the clutch? Can you stall the > > engine? In other words, is the implementation good enough now a days to > > warrant getting a clutch pedal to enhance the simulation experience? > > > > How are the hardware options for clutch pedals? I've seen someexpensive > > ones, but only the Act Labs hardware seams to be in the affordablerange. > > Recommendations? Experiences? > >

Glen Pittman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > As much as I hate to admit it, Nascar Heat does a much better job ofclutch > implementation that N4, IMO. In heat it seems that you can actually slip > the clutch, while N4 seems like a switch. > > The real cars are more like the N4 clutch, however. There isn't much throw to go from disengaged to engaged. -- - Will DeRivera - GPL Rank 105.63, damn the 'ring! - http://www.numic.net - http://www.luxt.com

You can the engine in Viper Racing as well. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rOXR7.301240$[email hidden]...

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> You can stall the engine in F1RC too. > > David G Fisher > > "Pat Dotson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > R Keating wrote: > > > > > > How well are clutches implemented in sims like GPL and N4? If you use

a

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> > > pedal, is it analog where you can slip the clutch? > > > > Yes, it's analog, but most sims have a really short > > clutch. The clutch engagement should be completely > > configurable I think. > > > > > Can you stall the > > > engine? In other words, is the implementation good enough now a days

to

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> > > warrant getting a clutch pedal to enhance the simulation experience? > > > > F1 2001 is the only one I know of where you will > > stall the motor. You can't restart it on the > > track, you have to exit to the garage. It's > > kind of a neat penalty for spinning. It's > > second nature for me to stomp on the clutch > > pedal when I spin to keep the engine running. > > > > N4 and GPL let you cheat on this. In N4, you > > ought to at least have to re-start the car. I > > don't know if '67 cars had on board starters. > > > > > How are the hardware options for clutch pedals? I've seen some > expensive > > > ones, but only the Act Labs hardware seams to be in the affordable > range. > > > Recommendations? Experiences? > > > > Go ACT Labs. You won't regret it. > > > > -- > > Pat Dotson > >

Absolutely Wicked Richard....do you have a clutch pedal or have it assigned to a button on your wheel? dave henrie "Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9vcgpv$[email hidden]... x-no-archive: yes I'm excited!!! Get this - last night I span out in F12001, and ended up going backwards fast in about 4th gear. The engine stalled and I was leaving a huge trail of rubber. Recovering my wits, I pressed the clutch in, selected reverse, and let the clutch out again. To my amazement, the engine bump started!!! I quickly put the clutch back in, stopped, selected 1st, did a spin turn, and continued my race with a huge grin!! :-D R.

Wonder if it would do like my old motocrosser; accidentally bump start it rolling backwards and the engine would fire up *rotating the wrong way!*. You don't wanna know what happened next! ;-) SB "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nMnS7.48829$ER5.613408@rwcrnsc52...

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> Absolutely Wicked Richard....do you have a clutch pedal or have it > assigned to a button on your wheel? > dave henrie > "Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]> wrote in > message news:9vcgpv$[email hidden]... > x-no-archive: yes > > I'm excited!!! > > Get this - last night I span out in F12001, and ended up going backwards > fast in about 4th gear. The engine stalled and I was leaving a huge trail of > rubber. Recovering my wits, I pressed the clutch in, selected reverse, and > let the clutch out again. > > To my amazement, the engine bump started!!! > > I quickly put the clutch back in, stopped, selected 1st, did a spin turn, > and continued my race with a huge grin!! :-D > > R. > > >

This has happened to me with 1/8 scale Gas Racers :) A pop, then going the wrong way! -Larry "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LHpS7.65632$[email hidden]... > Wonder if it would do like my old motocrosser; accidentally bump start itrolling backwards and the engine would fire up *rotating > the wrong way!*. You don't wanna know what happened next! ;-) > > SB > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:nMnS7.48829$ER5.613408@rwcrnsc52... > > Absolutely Wicked Richard....do you have a clutch pedal or have it > > assigned to a button on your wheel? > > dave henrie > > "Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]>wrote in

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> > message news:9vcgpv$[email hidden]... > > x-no-archive: yes > > > > I'm excited!!! > > > > Get this - last night I span out in F12001, and ended up going backwards > > fast in about 4th gear. The engine stalled and I was leaving a huge

trail of > > rubber. Recovering my wits, I pressed the clutch in, selected reverse,and > > let the clutch out again. > > > > To my amazement, the engine bump started!!! > > > > I quickly put the clutch back in, stopped, selected 1st, did a spinturn,

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> > and continued my race with a huge grin!! :-D > > > > R. > > > > > > > >

That's what you get for messing with two-strokes :) -- Pat Dotson "Larry (The Other Larry)" wrote: > > This has happened to me with 1/8 scale Gas Racers :) A pop, then going the > wrong way! > > -Larry > > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:LHpS7.65632$[email hidden]... > > Wonder if it would do like my old motocrosser; accidentally bump start it > rolling backwards and the engine would fire up *rotating > > the wrong way!*. You don't wanna know what happened next! ;-) > > > > SB > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:nMnS7.48829$ER5.613408@rwcrnsc52... > > > Absolutely Wicked Richard....do you have a clutch pedal or have it > > > assigned to a button on your wheel? > > > dave henrie > > > "Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]> > wrote in > > > message news:9vcgpv$[email hidden]... > > > x-no-archive: yes > > > > > > I'm excited!!! > > > > > > Get this - last night I span out in F12001, and ended up going backwards > > > fast in about 4th gear. The engine stalled and I was leaving a huge > trail of > > > rubber. Recovering my wits, I pressed the clutch in, selected reverse, > and > > > let the clutch out again. > > > > > > To my amazement, the engine bump started!!! > > > > > > I quickly put the clutch back in, stopped, selected 1st, did a spin > turn, > > > and continued my race with a huge grin!! :-D > > > > > > R. > > > > > > > > > > > > >

>I actually push started Rindt's car at the Glen, in, I think '67. >Maybe we would have pushed the car anyway, but I don't think the >mechanic cranked it first with a starter. > >Anyway I have been waiting almost 3 years to tell this story here! ;-) > Wow!! :0) That was a really cool story, why didn't you tell earlier?? Thanks for sharing! Todd Wasson --- Performance Simulations Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction Software http://PerformanceSimulations.Com

In article <LHpS7.65632$[email hidden]>, "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes: >Wonder if it would do like my old motocrosser; accidentally bump start it >rolling backwards and the engine would fire up *rotating >the wrong way!*. You don't wanna know what happened next! ;-) > That couldn't happen with a four stroke. Don McCorkle

Hehe. At least the 1/8 gassers didn't throw props at me! -Larry "Pat Dotson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> That's what you get for messing with two-strokes :) > > -- > Pat Dotson > > "Larry (The Other Larry)" wrote: > > > > This has happened to me with 1/8 scale Gas Racers :) A pop, then going

the

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> > wrong way! > > > > -Larry > > > > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:LHpS7.65632$[email hidden]... > > > Wonder if it would do like my old motocrosser; accidentally bump start

it

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> > rolling backwards and the engine would fire up *rotating > > > the wrong way!*. You don't wanna know what happened next! ;-) > > > > > > SB > > > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:nMnS7.48829$ER5.613408@rwcrnsc52... > > > > Absolutely Wicked Richard....do you have a clutch pedal or have it > > > > assigned to a button on your wheel? > > > > dave henrie > > > > "Richard S Beckett" <[email hidden]> > > wrote in > > > > message news:9vcgpv$[email hidden]... > > > > x-no-archive: yes > > > > > > > > I'm excited!!! > > > > > > > > Get this - last night I span out in F12001, and ended up going

backwards > > > > fast in about 4th gear. The engine stalled and I was leaving a huge > > trail of > > > > rubber. Recovering my wits, I pressed the clutch in, selectedreverse,

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> > and > > > > let the clutch out again. > > > > > > > > To my amazement, the engine bump started!!! > > > > > > > > I quickly put the clutch back in, stopped, selected 1st, did a spin > > turn, > > > > and continued my race with a huge grin!! :-D > > > > > > > > R. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards. In fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-over backwards and throw the props at you. Two strokes will do it too, but the 4-strokers are notorious about it. Bad enough that locking prop-nuts have been produced. I had one kick me in the ass from 30 feet once :) -Larry "Woodie 83" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <LHpS7.65632$[email hidden]>, > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Wonder if it would do like my old motocrosser; accidentally bump start it > >rolling backwards and the engine would fire up *rotating > >the wrong way!*. You don't wanna know what happened next! ;-) > > > > That couldn't happen with a four stroke. > > > Don McCorkle >

Lol, yeah they sure will. Interestingly enough, I used to fly pattern competition years ago, I was heavy into it for several years. Ended up burning myself out on it. Anyways, back then the popular pattern machines used 2 strokes, and I would always start my engine by simply bumping the spinner backwards with my thumb and forefinger, rascal would fire right up running in the right direction almost every time. Bump it in the direction of rotation though, and half the time it would fire up running backwards. Don Burnette "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YwWS7.42180$[email hidden]... > Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards. In > fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-over backwards > and throw the props at you. > > Two strokes will do it too, but the 4-strokers are notorious about it.Bad

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> enough that locking prop-nuts have been produced. > > I had one kick me in the ass from 30 feet once :) > > -Larry > > "Woodie 83" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <LHpS7.65632$[email hidden]>, > > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Wonder if it would do like my old motocrosser; accidentally bump start

it

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> > >rolling backwards and the engine would fire up *rotating > > >the wrong way!*. You don't wanna know what happened next! ;-) > > > > > > > That couldn't happen with a four stroke. > > > > > > Don McCorkle > > > >

In article <YwWS7.42180$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > >Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards. In >fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-over backwards >and throw the props at you. > How can this be? Is there an actual valve, or are they using a cylinder-wall port similar to the two strokes? Seems to me that a 4 stroke running backwards will breathe in throught the muffler and breathe out through the carburator. Does it consume carbon monoxide and create oxygen and fuel as it does this? :-) Don McCorkle

Those model ariplanes IMHO are so wasteful, about how much fuel is introduced vs how much fuel is burned, probably due to the fuel being lubricant as well, that it was not uncomon that the muffler would be full of fuel enough to run until you discovered it was runing the wrong way! of course it was not prefered so you'd shut it off right away... i dont know how long a 4 stroke airplane ould run backwards, but then again why would you let it keep on running? so hope this helps your question about 4 strokes running backwards, ONLY in these small engines. On another note, I had found a Chevy with a good motor (supposedly) at a friends house (farmhouse). I asked 1st thing, DOES it run? to prove it, he runs out to start it, without opening the hood or anything... it starts, and ran very high idle, (guessing up near 3500 rpms, with no control. My friend decided that the throttle linkage fell off so he shuts it off, and opens the hood... To our amasement, the Carberator is gone (stolen at some undetermined point of time)! the fuel line is spraying only "close" to the opening, and hitting one of the carb studs, and off the hood, providing fuel in a rebounding spray... man were we shocked, and lucky nothing caught on fire... "Woodie 83" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <YwWS7.42180$[email hidden]>, > "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards. In > >fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-over backwards > >and throw the props at you. > > > > How can this be? Is there an actual valve, or are they using a

cylinder-wall > port similar to the two strokes? Seems to me that a 4 stroke runningbackwards > will breathe in throught the muffler and breathe out through thecarburator. > Does it consume carbon monoxide and create oxygen and fuel as it doesthis? > :-) > > > Don McCorkle >

I can understand the burn-out part :) I flew R/C Gas Helicopters for about 4 years. 10 Helo's and about $10,000 later, I had had enough. Most challanging thing I've ever done in my life. Dangerous, too... -Larry "Don Burnette" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MjXS7.70435$[email hidden]... > Lol, yeah they sure will. > Interestingly enough, I used to fly pattern competition years ago, I was > heavy into it for several years. Ended up burning myself out on it. > Anyways, back then the popular pattern machines used 2 strokes, and Iwould > always start my engine by simply bumping the spinner backwards with mythumb > and forefinger, rascal would fire right up running in the right direction > almost every time. Bump it in the direction of rotation though, and halfthe

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> time it would fire up running backwards. > > Don Burnette > > "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:YwWS7.42180$[email hidden]... > > Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards. In > > fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-over

backwards

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> > and throw the props at you. > > > > Two strokes will do it too, but the 4-strokers are notorious about it. > Bad > > enough that locking prop-nuts have been produced. > > > > I had one kick me in the ass from 30 feet once :) > > > > -Larry > > > > "Woodie 83" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <LHpS7.65632$[email hidden]>, > > > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > >Wonder if it would do like my old motocrosser; accidentally bump

start

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> it > > > >rolling backwards and the engine would fire up *rotating > > > >the wrong way!*. You don't wanna know what happened next! ;-) > > > > > > > > > > That couldn't happen with a four stroke. > > > > > > > > > Don McCorkle > > > > > > > > >

I assure you that 4-stroke plane engines run backwards and throw props. Like I said, it's bad enough of a problem that there are locking prop nuts on the market to keep folks from getting chewed up. -Larry "Woodie 83" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <YwWS7.42180$[email hidden]>, > "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards. In > >fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-over backwards > >and throw the props at you. > > > > How can this be? Is there an actual valve, or are they using a

cylinder-wall > port similar to the two strokes? Seems to me that a 4 stroke runningbackwards > will breathe in throught the muffler and breathe out through thecarburator. > Does it consume carbon monoxide and create oxygen and fuel as it doesthis? > :-) > > > Don McCorkle >

That's not fuel, it's lubricant. Either Castor or Synthetic. Yes, it's a real mess. -Larry "Sting32" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WH5T7.53429$[email hidden]... > Those model ariplanes IMHO are so wasteful, about how much fuel is > introduced vs how much fuel is burned, probably due to the fuel being > lubricant as well, that it was not uncomon that the muffler would be fullof

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> fuel enough to run until you discovered it was runing the wrong way! of > course it was not prefered so you'd shut it off right away... i dont know > how long a 4 stroke airplane ould run backwards, but then again why would > you let it keep on running? so hope this helps your question about 4 > strokes running backwards, ONLY in these small engines. > > On another note, I had found a Chevy with a good motor (supposedly) at a > friends house (farmhouse). I asked 1st thing, DOES it run? to prove it,

he > runs out to start it, without opening the hood or anything... it starts, > and ran very high idle, (guessing up near 3500 rpms, with no control. My > friend decided that the throttle linkage fell off so he shuts it off, and > opens the hood... To our amasement, the Carberator is gone (stolen atsome > undetermined point of time)! the fuel line is spraying only "close" tothe > opening, and hitting one of the carb studs, and off the hood, providingfuel

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> in a rebounding spray... man were we shocked, and lucky nothing caught on > fire... > > > "Woodie 83" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <YwWS7.42180$[email hidden]>, > > "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > > >Well, I know that 4-stroke model airplane engines can run backwards.

In > > >fact, the most annoying thing about them is when they kick-overbackwards

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> > >and throw the props at you. > > > > > > > How can this be? Is there an actual valve, or are they using a > cylinder-wall > > port similar to the two strokes? Seems to me that a 4 stroke running > backwards > > will breathe in throught the muffler and breathe out through the > carburator. > > Does it consume carbon monoxide and create oxygen and fuel as it does > this? > > :-) > > > > > > Don McCorkle > > > >

In article <6tcT7.44591$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>I can understand the burn-out part :) > >I flew R/C Gas Helicopters for about 4 years. 10 Helo's and about $10,000 >later, I had had enough. > >Most challanging thing I've ever done in my life. Dangerous, too... > >-Larry

Those things cost a GRAND each??? Damn... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Grand? LOL! A BASIC chopper with kit, engine, radio gear etc.. can cost a grand! I probably way under-estimated how much I spent when I said $10,000 :) I hand-built one Bell 222 (full retracts, lighting, etc...) that I had over $2500 and 500 man-hours in. I was afraid to fly it so I sold it. Made quite a profit on it too :) BTW... My next hobby after the Helo's was 1/4 Scale Nascar Racing. In fact, I raced in the first-ever ROAR 1/4 scale nationals in San Diego CA about, oh, 15 years ago. Came in around 4th in the field if I remember right. It's a damned shame (or maybe a blessing) that they don't have 1/4 scale tracks in my area now :( If you haven't seen them, these are true racing machines. Approximately 30 inches long, 14 inches wide or so. I think about 32 pounds was the rule minimum on weight. Run weed-whacker motors and various types of transmissions. Racing slicks about 6 inches tall and 3 inches wide. Full suspension adjustability. One company, WSC, builds their frames out of 100% tubing, just like the real one's. I preferred the other one's as they were tougher and cheaper to fix (Raaco or something like that. It's been a LONG time). They also had a 1/4 scaler called the Jac-Rabit that was a blast. The track in San Diego was awesome. It was on old kids midget track they converted. It was on the grounds of the Full-Size race track in San Diego. It's funny, we weren't allowed to have races on Saturday because too many people came to our side instead of the full-size side and the track started losing money! You think Sim-Racing is fun? 1/4 scale stockers are a REAL blast :) A decent starter car with all equipment, back then, ran around $1000 if I remember correctly. -Larry "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <6tcT7.44591$[email hidden]>, "Larry\(The > Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I can understand the burn-out part :) > > > >I flew R/C Gas Helicopters for about 4 years. 10 Helo's and about$10,000

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> >later, I had had enough. > > > >Most challanging thing I've ever done in my life. Dangerous, too... > > > >-Larry > > Those things cost a GRAND each??? Damn... > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Interesting. Raco was once an American company, based out of CA. Now they are in Austria? http://www.raco.co.at/ Check out the goodies :) -Larry "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rKsT7.742$[email hidden]...

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> Grand? > > LOL! > > A BASIC chopper with kit, engine, radio gear etc.. can cost a grand! > > I probably way under-estimated how much I spent when I said $10,000 :) > > I hand-built one Bell 222 (full retracts, lighting, etc...) that I had

over > $2500 and 500 man-hours in. > > I was afraid to fly it so I sold it. Made quite a profit on it too :) > > BTW... My next hobby after the Helo's was 1/4 Scale Nascar Racing. Infact,

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> I raced in the first-ever ROAR 1/4 scale nationals in San Diego CA about, > oh, 15 years ago. Came in around 4th in the field if I remember right. > > It's a damned shame (or maybe a blessing) that they don't have 1/4 scale > tracks in my area now :( > > If you haven't seen them, these are true racing machines. Approximately

30 > inches long, 14 inches wide or so. I think about 32 pounds was the rule > minimum on weight. Run weed-whacker motors and various types of > transmissions. Racing slicks about 6 inches tall and 3 inches wide. Full > suspension adjustability. > > One company, WSC, builds their frames out of 100% tubing, just like thereal > one's. I preferred the other one's as they were tougher and cheaper tofix > (Raaco or something like that. It's been a LONG time). They also had a1/4 > scaler called the Jac-Rabit that was a blast. > > The track in San Diego was awesome. It was on old kids midget track they > converted. > > It was on the grounds of the Full-Size race track in San Diego. It'sfunny, > we weren't allowed to have races on Saturday because too many people cameto

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> our side instead of the full-size side and the track started losing money! > > You think Sim-Racing is fun? 1/4 scale stockers are a REAL blast :) > > A decent starter car with all equipment, back then, ran around $1000 if I > remember correctly. > > -Larry > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <6tcT7.44591$[email hidden]>, "Larry > \(The > > Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >I can understand the burn-out part :) > > > > > >I flew R/C Gas Helicopters for about 4 years. 10 Helo's and about > $10,000 > > >later, I had had enough. > > > > > >Most challanging thing I've ever done in my life. Dangerous, too... > > > > > >-Larry > > > > Those things cost a GRAND each??? Damn... > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > GPLRank - under construction... > > > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats > you > > with experience... > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > >

Here's a nice page that shows some 'innards'. -Larry "Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rKsT7.742$[email hidden]...

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> Grand? > > LOL! > > A BASIC chopper with kit, engine, radio gear etc.. can cost a grand! > > I probably way under-estimated how much I spent when I said $10,000 :) > > I hand-built one Bell 222 (full retracts, lighting, etc...) that I had

over > $2500 and 500 man-hours in. > > I was afraid to fly it so I sold it. Made quite a profit on it too :) > > BTW... My next hobby after the Helo's was 1/4 Scale Nascar Racing. Infact,

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> I raced in the first-ever ROAR 1/4 scale nationals in San Diego CA about, > oh, 15 years ago. Came in around 4th in the field if I remember right. > > It's a damned shame (or maybe a blessing) that they don't have 1/4 scale > tracks in my area now :( > > If you haven't seen them, these are true racing machines. Approximately

30 > inches long, 14 inches wide or so. I think about 32 pounds was the rule > minimum on weight. Run weed-whacker motors and various types of > transmissions. Racing slicks about 6 inches tall and 3 inches wide. Full > suspension adjustability. > > One company, WSC, builds their frames out of 100% tubing, just like thereal > one's. I preferred the other one's as they were tougher and cheaper tofix > (Raaco or something like that. It's been a LONG time). They also had a1/4 > scaler called the Jac-Rabit that was a blast. > > The track in San Diego was awesome. It was on old kids midget track they > converted. > > It was on the grounds of the Full-Size race track in San Diego. It'sfunny, > we weren't allowed to have races on Saturday because too many people cameto

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> our side instead of the full-size side and the track started losing money! > > You think Sim-Racing is fun? 1/4 scale stockers are a REAL blast :) > > A decent starter car with all equipment, back then, ran around $1000 if I > remember correctly. > > -Larry > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <6tcT7.44591$[email hidden]>, "Larry > \(The > > Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >I can understand the burn-out part :) > > > > > >I flew R/C Gas Helicopters for about 4 years. 10 Helo's and about > $10,000 > > >later, I had had enough. > > > > > >Most challanging thing I've ever done in my life. Dangerous, too... > > > > > >-Larry > > > > Those things cost a GRAND each??? Damn... > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > GPLRank - under construction... > > > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats > you > > with experience... > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > >

"Larry (The Other Larry)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:rKsT7.742 > I hand-built one Bell 222 (full retracts, lighting, etc...) that I hadover > $2500 and 500 man-hours in. > > I was afraid to fly it so I sold it. Made quite a profit on it too :) I don't want to start a flame war or anything but I couldn't resist commenting here. How much did you sell it for that you made a profit after sinking $2500 and 500 hours into it? Assuming a dirt-cheap $10/hr, that 500 hours added an additional $5000 to the initial purchase cost. So unless you sold it for over $7500 you too a *loss* ;) On most serious hobbies, you spend WAY more time than money on them...

In article <TSsT7.855$[email hidden]>, "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> >Interesting. Raco was once an American company, based out of CA. > >Now they are in Austria? > >http://www.raco.co.at/ > >Check out the goodies :) >

So what are the prices? I know...if you have to ask...<g> I just hate sites that don't tell you how much the stuff is unless you fill out the whole order form... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.