F1 2001: what I don't get...

There are many great games out there, and I'm often amazed at how it's possible to 'make' stuff like that. It's just unbelievable to me, maybe you've had this feeling as well. It's like the mystery of the lightbulb, multiplied by one hundred. And I don't necessarily *want* to know how it's all done, I'm quite happy being in the dark about this. I grew up with videogames, and I've basically seen it all: from Pong to Porsche Unleashed (so to speak), and I take my hat of to all the creative geniuses that made it all happen. But here's what I don't get: if you're so damn' smart that you can create a racing game like eeeeuhm... well F1 2001 for instance (why not), how come you screw up the controller settings big time! In my mind, fixing such a problem ought to be infinitely more simple to create the game itself. And if they are aware of the problem - and I'm sure they are - why don't they bloody fix it then!!! In my opinion, there's no excuse for this. People pay good money for their stuff, they'd better make sure it works properly. Had to get that of my chest... Happy racing, Ice D

Hi Ice, A good and considered point well made (rather than the moany rubbish I have heard from other people). In their defence they were probably pushed to the last second to get everything done, I for one didnt have anyu controller problems with either the MSFF or the LWFF. They probably had a limited number of controller / GFX card / Sound card / motherboard combination. It would be hard to test every single combination of these without a major public beta test, which also comes with its problems, eg. Arranging distribution, both online and mail, piracy and dealing with all the replies from probably testers that dont know the information the developer needs to fix the problem. I guess I can see it from the other side of the fence as I am trying to write my own sim at the minute, and as you say it is incredibly hard. I reckon F1 2001 is an awesome attempt at a modern F1 and should be applauded. There are problems of course, but I think on the whole they have made good decisions on what to implement and what to leave out because of time. All the best, Ash - who will not feed the inevitable trolls :) Ice D wrote:

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> There are many great games out there, and I'm often amazed at how it's > possible to 'make' stuff like that. It's just unbelievable to me, maybe > you've had this feeling as well. It's like the mystery of the lightbulb, > multiplied by one hundred. And I don't necessarily *want* to know how it's > all done, I'm quite happy being in the dark about this. I grew up with > videogames, and I've basically seen it all: from Pong to Porsche Unleashed > (so to speak), and I take my hat of to all the creative geniuses that made > it all happen. But here's what I don't get: if you're so damn' smart that > you can create a racing game like eeeeuhm... well F1 2001 for instance (why > not), how come you screw up the controller settings big time! In my mind, > fixing such a problem ought to be infinitely more simple to create the game > itself. And if they are aware of the problem - and I'm sure they are - why > don't they bloody fix it then!!! In my opinion, there's no excuse for this. > People pay good money for their stuff, they'd better make sure it works > properly. > > Had to get that of my chest... > > Happy racing, > > Ice D > > >

well, what can I say....I AGREE !!! "Ice D" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: EaET7.42$[email hidden]...

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> There are many great games out there, and I'm often amazed at how it's > possible to 'make' stuff like that. It's just unbelievable to me, maybe > you've had this feeling as well. It's like the mystery of the lightbulb, > multiplied by one hundred. And I don't necessarily *want* to know how it's > all done, I'm quite happy being in the dark about this. I grew up with > videogames, and I've basically seen it all: from Pong to Porsche Unleashed > (so to speak), and I take my hat of to all the creative geniuses that made > it all happen. But here's what I don't get: if you're so damn' smart that > you can create a racing game like eeeeuhm... well F1 2001 for instance

(why > not), how come you screw up the controller settings big time! In my mind, > fixing such a problem ought to be infinitely more simple to create thegame > itself. And if they are aware of the problem - and I'm sure they are - why > don't they bloody fix it then!!! In my opinion, there's no excuse forthis.

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> People pay good money for their stuff, they'd better make sure it works > properly. > > Had to get that of my chest... > > Happy racing, > > Ice D > >

I have one theory: no usability testing. I worked for an online firm with a very expensive usability lab. We were supposed to bring in customers and observe them using our system. Problem is we never did. Perhaps it's overconfidence or arrogance but our tech group never properly utilized customer feedback to improve our system from a usability standpoint. Sure it worked, but it was not the easiest to use, best organized, most feature rich, etc. I suspect the same thing happens here. Forget using a usability lab, they probably don't even have one. The only testing is beta. Beta testers are typically advanced users and their primary role is bug hunting. They are probably the wrong group to also analyze the usability of the program by the typical buyer since they are atypical. There should be separate usability test by anal bastards like me who will quickly find the flaws (menu system, controller set-up screen, etc.) that make the game unnecessarily cumbersome or annoying. BTW, I'm sure they are aware of this, it is probably just not in the budget. -- Joe Marques "Ice D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:EaET7.42$[email hidden]... > There are many great games out there, and I'm often amazed at how it's > possible to 'make' stuff like that. It's just unbelievable to me, maybe > you've had this feeling as well. It's like the mystery of the lightbulb, > multiplied by one hundred. And I don't necessarily *want* to know how it's > all done, I'm quite happy being in the dark about this. I grew up with > videogames, and I've basically seen it all: from Pong to Porsche Unleashed > (so to speak), and I take my hat of to all the creative geniuses that made > it all happen. But here's what I don't get: if you're so damn' smart that > you can create a racing game like eeeeuhm... well F1 2001 for instance (why > not), how come you screw up the controller settings big time! In my mind, > fixing such a problem ought to be infinitely more simple to create the game > itself. And if they are aware of the problem - and I'm sure they are - why > don't they bloody fix it then!!! In my opinion, there's no excuse for this. > People pay good money for their stuff, they'd better make sure it works > properly. > > Had to get that of my chest... > > Happy racing, > > Ice D > >

It might help a little if people would say what problems they are having instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still not sure what some people are complaining about. I have tried it with a Sidewinder Precision 2 joystick, a Logitech Rumblepad, and two different Logitech FF GP wheels and have not had any problems. None. The only thing I can think of is that the menu setup for the controllers is confusing, and that is preventing a lot of people from finding settings that they like. Exactly what problem are you having anyway? "Ice D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:EaET7.42$[email hidden]... > There are many great games out there, and I'm often amazed at how it's > possible to 'make' stuff like that. It's just unbelievable to me,maybe > you've had this feeling as well. It's like the mystery of thelightbulb, > multiplied by one hundred. And I don't necessarily *want* to know howit's > all done, I'm quite happy being in the dark about this. I grew up with > videogames, and I've basically seen it all: from Pong to PorscheUnleashed > (so to speak), and I take my hat of to all the creative geniuses thatmade > it all happen. But here's what I don't get: if you're so damn' smartthat > you can create a racing game like eeeeuhm... well F1 2001 forinstance (why > not), how come you screw up the controller settings big time! In mymind, > fixing such a problem ought to be infinitely more simple to create thegame > itself. And if they are aware of the problem - and I'm sure they are -why > don't they bloody fix it then!!! In my opinion, there's no excuse forthis. > People pay good money for their stuff, they'd better make sure itworks

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> properly. > > Had to get that of my chest... > > Happy racing, > > Ice D > >

it's impossible to keep the car going straight to start with "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: CSPT7.12313$[email hidden]...

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> It might help a little if people would say what problems they are having > instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still not sure what > some people are complaining about. I have tried it with a Sidewinder > Precision 2 joystick, a Logitech Rumblepad, and two different Logitech > FF GP wheels and have not had any problems. None. The only thing I can > think of is that the menu setup for the controllers is confusing, and > that is preventing a lot of people from finding settings that they like. > Exactly what problem are you having anyway? > > > "Ice D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:EaET7.42$[email hidden]... > > There are many great games out there, and I'm often amazed at how it's > > possible to 'make' stuff like that. It's just unbelievable to me, > maybe > > you've had this feeling as well. It's like the mystery of the > lightbulb, > > multiplied by one hundred. And I don't necessarily *want* to know how > it's > > all done, I'm quite happy being in the dark about this. I grew up with > > videogames, and I've basically seen it all: from Pong to Porsche > Unleashed > > (so to speak), and I take my hat of to all the creative geniuses that > made > > it all happen. But here's what I don't get: if you're so damn' smart > that > > you can create a racing game like eeeeuhm... well F1 2001 for > instance (why > > not), how come you screw up the controller settings big time! In my > mind, > > fixing such a problem ought to be infinitely more simple to create the > game > > itself. And if they are aware of the problem - and I'm sure they are - > why > > don't they bloody fix it then!!! In my opinion, there's no excuse for > this. > > People pay good money for their stuff, they'd better make sure it > works > > properly. > > > > Had to get that of my chest... > > > > Happy racing, > > > > Ice D > > > > >

FWIW, On the main controllers screen, leave the entries at 50% and 50%. Goto the advanced setup and set the X-axis (steering axis) to 40% or less. This reduced the deadzone in the middle of the wheel for me enough so I could steer quite reliably. I didn't use DXTweak so a slight deadzone is apparent, but not a major problem. Jason. (Ferrari FF) Txl wrote:

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> > it's impossible to keep the car going straight to start with > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: > CSPT7.12313$[email hidden]... > > It might help a little if people would say what problems they are having > > instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still not sure what > > some people are complaining about. I have tried it with a Sidewinder

-- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run Sims) (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CSPT7.12313$[email hidden]...

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> It might help a little if people would say what problems they are having > instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still not sure what > some people are complaining about. I have tried it with a Sidewinder > Precision 2 joystick, a Logitech Rumblepad, and two different Logitech > FF GP wheels and have not had any problems. None. The only thing I can > think of is that the menu setup for the controllers is confusing, and > that is preventing a lot of people from finding settings that they like. > Exactly what problem are you having anyway?

My problem is: the menu setup for the controllers is confusing, and that is preventing a lot of people from finding settings that they like. ;-) Sorry, but what more do you want? Sensitivity sliders that aren't *really* sensitivity but instead are some kind of magic linearity settings that only a few gurus have figured out, poor documentation of what settings to use for various categories of controllers (joystick, wheel, gamepad, etc.). Those are the problems that I'm having. I have driven dozens of games using my LWFF and F1 2001 is the ONLY game where I can't keep the car straight on the straightaways. If I turn the deadzone down to 0 it wanders, if I turn the deadzone up to where it doesn't wander it's not sensitive enough. Not a problem in GPL, N4, RT, SCGT, CMR2, MBTR, RC2000, NFS:PU and others which slip my mind. In those games I just turned the deadzones to 0, fiddled with the (usually sole) sensitivity slider and the wheel just worked. Don't get me wrong, I love this game and it's by far the best modern F1 sim I've played, but the controller code sucks relative to other driving games, both old and new. Rob

Look, you guys have got some sort of problem here. This is not normal F1 2001 behaviour. I had the exact same problem with my Ferrari FF wheel when I was using the latest drivers - not able to keep a straight line, vibrating, jerking, etc. etc. Whenever I switched back to the older ones, the problem just went away. The FF and control is absolutely superb! You can resolve it. Believe me it's worth it! Iain "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8lQT7.469$Lx1.3043@shaw-ty1...

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> > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:CSPT7.12313$[email hidden]... > > It might help a little if people would say what problems they are having > > instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still not sure what > > some people are complaining about. I have tried it with a Sidewinder > > Precision 2 joystick, a Logitech Rumblepad, and two different Logitech > > FF GP wheels and have not had any problems. None. The only thing I can > > think of is that the menu setup for the controllers is confusing, and > > that is preventing a lot of people from finding settings that they like. > > Exactly what problem are you having anyway? > > My problem is: > the menu setup for the controllers is confusing, and > that is preventing a lot of people from finding settings that they like. > > ;-) > > Sorry, but what more do you want? Sensitivity sliders that aren't *really* > sensitivity but instead are some kind of magic linearity settings that

only > a few gurus have figured out, poor documentation of what settings to usefor > various categories of controllers (joystick, wheel, gamepad, etc.). Those > are the problems that I'm having. > > I have driven dozens of games using my LWFF and F1 2001 is the ONLY game > where I can't keep the car straight on the straightaways. If I turn the > deadzone down to 0 it wanders, if I turn the deadzone up to where itdoesn't > wander it's not sensitive enough. Not a problem in GPL, N4, RT, SCGT,CMR2, > MBTR, RC2000, NFS:PU and others which slip my mind. In those games I just > turned the deadzones to 0, fiddled with the (usually sole) sensitivity > slider and the wheel just worked. > > Don't get me wrong, I love this game and it's by far the best modern F1sim > I've played, but the controller code sucks relative to other drivinggames, > both old and new. > > Rob > >

I am running a stock TSW2 with no issues, handles very well. Don Burnette "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CSPT7.12313$[email hidden]...

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> It might help a little if people would say what problems they are having > instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still not sure what > some people are complaining about. I have tried it with a Sidewinder > Precision 2 joystick, a Logitech Rumblepad, and two different Logitech > FF GP wheels and have not had any problems. None. The only thing I can > think of is that the menu setup for the controllers is confusing, and > that is preventing a lot of people from finding settings that they like. > Exactly what problem are you having anyway? > > > "Ice D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:EaET7.42$[email hidden]... > > There are many great games out there, and I'm often amazed at how it's > > possible to 'make' stuff like that. It's just unbelievable to me, > maybe > > you've had this feeling as well. It's like the mystery of the > lightbulb, > > multiplied by one hundred. And I don't necessarily *want* to know how > it's > > all done, I'm quite happy being in the dark about this. I grew up with > > videogames, and I've basically seen it all: from Pong to Porsche > Unleashed > > (so to speak), and I take my hat of to all the creative geniuses that > made > > it all happen. But here's what I don't get: if you're so damn' smart > that > > you can create a racing game like eeeeuhm... well F1 2001 for > instance (why > > not), how come you screw up the controller settings big time! In my > mind, > > fixing such a problem ought to be infinitely more simple to create the > game > > itself. And if they are aware of the problem - and I'm sure they are - > why > > don't they bloody fix it then!!! In my opinion, there's no excuse for > this. > > People pay good money for their stuff, they'd better make sure it > works > > properly. > > > > Had to get that of my chest... > > > > Happy racing, > > > > Ice D > > > > >

That is not uncommon but also completely avoidable. It has to do with the rather non-logical way that ISI does their controller settings, and also the very inconvenient arrangement of the menus. I think most people are setting "Speed Sensitivity" thinking that it is "Steering Sensitivity", but it's not. Speed Sensitivity is like the steering hack in Papyrus games, if you want full linear steering you should turn it off. Except in Papyrus games the steering hack affects the low speed steering ratio, leaving the high speed ratio unchanged, whereas in ISI games the Speed Sensitivity setting affects the high speed steering ratio and leaves the low speed ratio unchanged. The higher the number, the more it reduces the steering response at high speeds. It has been this way with all ISI games going all the way back to SCGT. Unfortunately it's just not logical to most people, and again the menus are not well arranged. With my wheel I am using an X Axis Sensitivity of 20%, X Axis Deadzone of 0, Speed Sensitivity of 10%, and in the garage menu I usually set the car to around 20 degrees of steering lock. Normally I would use fully linear sensitivity, but in F1 2001 I keep a little speed sensitivity on because it helps settle the steering down at high speed. Any more than 10% though and I find myself constantly missing turns. To set Steering Sensitivity you have to click through to the advanced screen for your controller (controller 1, 2, etc.) and set the Axis Sensitivity (normally X) for that controller. Generally the more Speed Sensitivity you use the more X axis (steering) sensitivity you will have to use in order to maintain some sensitivity at speed. HTH, Hal "Txl" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3c1fce04$0$3182$[email hidden]...

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> it's impossible to keep the car going straight to start with > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: > CSPT7.12313$[email hidden]... > > It might help a little if people would say what problems they are

having > > instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still not surewhat > > some people are complaining about. I have tried it with aSidewinder > > Precision 2 joystick, a Logitech Rumblepad, and two differentLogitech > > FF GP wheels and have not had any problems. None. The only thing Ican > > think of is that the menu setup for the controllers is confusing,and > > that is preventing a lot of people from finding settings that theylike. > > Exactly what problem are you having anyway? > > > > > > "Ice D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:EaET7.42$[email hidden]... > > > There are many great games out there, and I'm often amazed at howit's > > > possible to 'make' stuff like that. It's just unbelievable to me, > > maybe > > > you've had this feeling as well. It's like the mystery of the > > lightbulb, > > > multiplied by one hundred. And I don't necessarily *want* to knowhow > > it's > > > all done, I'm quite happy being in the dark about this. I grew upwith > > > videogames, and I've basically seen it all: from Pong to Porsche > > Unleashed > > > (so to speak), and I take my hat of to all the creative geniusesthat > > made > > > it all happen. But here's what I don't get: if you're so damn'smart > > that > > > you can create a racing game like eeeeuhm... well F1 2001 for > > instance (why > > > not), how come you screw up the controller settings big time! Inmy > > mind, > > > fixing such a problem ought to be infinitely more simple to createthe > > game > > > itself. And if they are aware of the problem - and I'm sure theyare - > > why > > > don't they bloody fix it then!!! In my opinion, there's no excusefor

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> > this. > > > People pay good money for their stuff, they'd better make sure it > > works > > > properly. > > > > > > Had to get that of my chest... > > > > > > Happy racing, > > > > > > Ice D > > > > > > > > > >

Well Iain may be right about drivers but I do agree with you about the menus being, in polite terms, rather non-intuitive. Please see my reply to Txl in this same thread, try the settings I suggest, and see if that helps. Believe me, the game is a blast once you get it working right. :-D Regards, Hal "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8lQT7.469$Lx1.3043@shaw-ty1... > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:CSPT7.12313$[email hidden]... > > It might help a little if people would say what problems they arehaving > > instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still not surewhat > > some people are complaining about. I have tried it with aSidewinder > > Precision 2 joystick, a Logitech Rumblepad, and two differentLogitech > > FF GP wheels and have not had any problems. None. The only thing Ican > > think of is that the menu setup for the controllers is confusing,and > > that is preventing a lot of people from finding settings that theylike. > > Exactly what problem are you having anyway? > > My problem is: > the menu setup for the controllers is confusing, and > that is preventing a lot of people from finding settings that theylike. > > ;-) > > Sorry, but what more do you want? Sensitivity sliders that aren't*really* > sensitivity but instead are some kind of magic linearity settings thatonly > a few gurus have figured out, poor documentation of what settings touse for > various categories of controllers (joystick, wheel, gamepad, etc.).Those > are the problems that I'm having. > > I have driven dozens of games using my LWFF and F1 2001 is the ONLYgame > where I can't keep the car straight on the straightaways. If I turnthe > deadzone down to 0 it wanders, if I turn the deadzone up to where itdoesn't > wander it's not sensitive enough. Not a problem in GPL, N4, RT, SCGT,CMR2, > MBTR, RC2000, NFS:PU and others which slip my mind. In those games Ijust > turned the deadzones to 0, fiddled with the (usually sole) sensitivity > slider and the wheel just worked. > > Don't get me wrong, I love this game and it's by far the best modernF1 sim > I've played, but the controller code sucks relative to other drivinggames, > both old and new. > > Rob > >

I have the same opinion of that solution as I have of the "just go back to the 2-year old nVidea drivers" idea: every other game works fine with my LWFF and up to date drivers. It ain't the machine that's broke, it's the game. I have managed to fiddle it so it works pretty well but it isn't working as well as it did for games that just worked right out of the box. I don't mind spending an hour or so tweaking and tuning, if it works in the end. But it has to work, and in F1 2001 it hasn't worked yet. Almost, but not quite. "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ORQT7.30337$[email hidden]... > Look, you guys have got some sort of problem here. This is not normal F1 > 2001 behaviour. I had the exact same problem with my Ferrari FF wheelwhen > I was using the latest drivers - not able to keep a straight line, > vibrating, jerking, etc. etc. Whenever I switched back to the older ones, > the problem just went away. The FF and control is absolutely superb! > You can resolve it. Believe me it's worth it! > Iain

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:r2ST7.12717$[email hidden]... >The higher the number, > the more it reduces the steering response at high speeds. It has been > this way with all ISI games going all the way back to SCGT. > Unfortunately it's just not logical to most people, and again the menus > are not well arranged. Seems fine to me. CPR was the same way. David G Fisher

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Believe me, the game is a blast once you get it working right. > :-D I've read and appreciated all the responds to my post, but I haven't got time to respond to everyone. The point I tried to make has to do with the statement above: I'm sure the game is a blast, once you get it working right. But that's all the more reason to be appalled at some stupid controller issue, which seems to make the game inaccessible for a lot of people. For example: I've had a game called Rollcage 2, a nice arcade racer, but nothing spectacular. Anyway, I never got my pedals to work, and I could't find a solution for this problem. So I cast the game aside, no big deal. But that's exactly what I don't want to do with F1 2001, because it's a good game. EAsports should take responsibility for issues like this, and solve them (I really don't care how they do it). Setting up the controller for any race game should not be some 'enormous hurdle' to take, and definitely shouldn't require 'hardcore tweaking' of DirectX settings (possibly screwing up other things in my PC). I feel it's *their* (EAsports) problem, not *my* problem. But since I've bought the game, it *is* my problem. I'll give F1 2001 a try tonight, I'll have my new system then. Cheers, Ice D

Wow! Those settings worked brilliantly on my LWFF. Thanks a LOT. I had actually assumed that the speed sensitivity only related to the keyboard. I can now play this game competitively with all assists turned off. (For some reason I could never play GPL or GP3 very well with throttle control disabled)

Don't you think the real F1 teams spend time figuring out the optimum controller settings? Foot pedal placement, finger paddles, buttons, clutch engagement points, foot clutches, hand clutches. If I recall right, Alex Zanardi spent a good deal of time trying to turn his F1 Williams into a car that felt like his CART car. He changed pedals, brake materials, all sorts of items trying to get consistant with the car. I suspect there are ergonomic teams within each racing team that spend huge dollars getting the controllers setup properly. Since this is a sim that models F1, shouldn't EVERYTHING about it be difficult???? :) dave henrie "Ice D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_f0U7.45$[email hidden]...

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> > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > Believe me, the game is a blast once you get it working right. > > :-D > > I've read and appreciated all the responds to my post, but I haven't got > time to respond to everyone. The point I tried to make has to do with the > statement above: I'm sure the game is a blast, once you get it working > right. But that's all the more reason to be appalled at some stupid > controller issue, which seems to make the game inaccessible for a lot of > people. For example: I've had a game called Rollcage 2, a nice arcade

racer, > but nothing spectacular. Anyway, I never got my pedals to work, and I > could't find a solution for this problem. So I cast the game aside, no big > deal. But that's exactly what I don't want to do with F1 2001, becauseit's > a good game. > > EAsports should take responsibility for issues like this, and solve them(I > really don't care how they do it). Setting up the controller for any race > game should not be some 'enormous hurdle' to take, and definitelyshouldn't > require 'hardcore tweaking' of DirectX settings (possibly screwing upother

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> things in my PC). > > I feel it's *their* (EAsports) problem, not *my* problem. But since I've > bought the game, it *is* my problem. > > I'll give F1 2001 a try tonight, I'll have my new system then. > > Cheers, > > Ice D > >

The way I see it there are two main problems: First, getting the FF slider going the correct direction (negative or positive). That one is pretty easy to figure out from testing - if it don't feel right, it's the other way. :). The second problem is that when using full linear steering (50% on all sensitivity sliders) and no speed sensitive steering (0%), it is very hard to control down the straights - too sensitive. In most games to date, you could get away with this. We therefore have 3 options: turning down the main sensitivity slider (bad because you lose linearity), turning up the speed sensitive steering (bad because steering changes with speed, it takes longer to learn) or a combination of the two. I don't know what is the best choice here - it'll probably be different for everyone. My $0.01 (adjusted for Canadian exchange rate) -Phasor "Ice D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:EaET7.42$[email hidden]...

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> There are many great games out there, and I'm often amazed at how it's > possible to 'make' stuff like that. It's just unbelievable to me, maybe > you've had this feeling as well. It's like the mystery of the lightbulb, > multiplied by one hundred. And I don't necessarily *want* to know how it's > all done, I'm quite happy being in the dark about this. I grew up with > videogames, and I've basically seen it all: from Pong to Porsche Unleashed > (so to speak), and I take my hat of to all the creative geniuses that made > it all happen. But here's what I don't get: if you're so damn' smart that > you can create a racing game like eeeeuhm... well F1 2001 for instance

(why > not), how come you screw up the controller settings big time! In my mind, > fixing such a problem ought to be infinitely more simple to create thegame > itself. And if they are aware of the problem - and I'm sure they are - why > don't they bloody fix it then!!! In my opinion, there's no excuse forthis.

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> People pay good money for their stuff, they'd better make sure it works > properly. > > Had to get that of my chest... > > Happy racing, > > Ice D > >

I do not think the sensitivity sliders in the controller screen affect axis linearity, I believe they only change the ratio of input to output. Use X axis sensitivity to change effective steering ratio, and then use the steering lock setting in the vehicle setup to affect the steering range. I am using 20% sensitivity on the X axis along with 10% speed sensitivity (just enough to calm it down at speed, because I like this better than using a deadspot) and it feels quite linear and controllable. Even if you are certain that I'm totally freaking wrong, just try it and see what you think. It feels pretty good to me. "Phasor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3c211f09$[email hidden]... > The way I see it there are two main problems: First, getting the FFslider > going the correct direction (negative or positive). That one ispretty easy > to figure out from testing - if it don't feel right, it's the otherway. :). > The second problem is that when using full linear steering (50% on all > sensitivity sliders) and no speed sensitive steering (0%), it is veryhard > to control down the straights - too sensitive. In most games to date,you > could get away with this. We therefore have 3 options: turning downthe > main sensitivity slider (bad because you lose linearity), turning upthe > speed sensitive steering (bad because steering changes with speed, ittakes > longer to learn) or a combination of the two. I don't know what isthe best

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> choice here - it'll probably be different for everyone. > > My $0.01 (adjusted for Canadian exchange rate) > -Phasor > > "Ice D" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:EaET7.42$[email hidden]... > > There are many great games out there, and I'm often amazed at how

it's > > possible to 'make' stuff like that. It's just unbelievable to me,maybe > > you've had this feeling as well. It's like the mystery of thelightbulb, > > multiplied by one hundred. And I don't necessarily *want* to knowhow it's > > all done, I'm quite happy being in the dark about this. I grew upwith > > videogames, and I've basically seen it all: from Pong to PorscheUnleashed > > (so to speak), and I take my hat of to all the creative geniusesthat made > > it all happen. But here's what I don't get: if you're so damn' smartthat > > you can create a racing game like eeeeuhm... well F1 2001 forinstance > (why > > not), how come you screw up the controller settings big time! In mymind, > > fixing such a problem ought to be infinitely more simple to createthe > game > > itself. And if they are aware of the problem - and I'm sure theyare - why > > don't they bloody fix it then!!! In my opinion, there's no excusefor > this. > > People pay good money for their stuff, they'd better make sure itworks

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> > properly. > > > > Had to get that of my chest... > > > > Happy racing, > > > > Ice D > > > > > >

Where is the advanced setup? I have keyboard, 2 stick/wheel and a FFB settings icons. I don't see any advanced set-up, but I need to fix the problem with inability to steer straight at high speeds with the Ferrari wheel. Thanks, Marc "Jason Monds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> FWIW, On the main controllers screen, leave the entries at 50% and 50%. > Goto the advanced setup and set the X-axis (steering axis) to 40% or > less. > > This reduced the deadzone in the middle of the wheel for me enough so I > could steer quite reliably. I didn't use DXTweak so a slight deadzone > is apparent, but not a major problem. > > Jason. > (Ferrari FF) > > Txl wrote: > > > > it's impossible to keep the car going straight to start with > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: > > CSPT7.12313$[email hidden]... > > > It might help a little if people would say what problems they are

having

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> > > instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still not sure what > > > some people are complaining about. I have tried it with a Sidewinder > -- > Jason Monds > http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) > http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run Sims) > (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

I have the Ferrari ff wheel too. X axis is at 20%. Y is 20%. Z is 80%. Speed sensitive set to 60% or higher. High speed handling is fine. David G Fisher "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JPdU7.29744$[email hidden]...

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> Where is the advanced setup? I have keyboard, 2 stick/wheel and a FFB > settings icons. I don't see any advanced set-up, but I need to fix the > problem with inability to steer straight at high speeds with the Ferrari > wheel. > > Thanks, > > Marc > > "Jason Monds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > FWIW, On the main controllers screen, leave the entries at 50% and 50%. > > Goto the advanced setup and set the X-axis (steering axis) to 40% or > > less. > > > > This reduced the deadzone in the middle of the wheel for me enough so I > > could steer quite reliably. I didn't use DXTweak so a slight deadzone > > is apparent, but not a major problem. > > > > Jason. > > (Ferrari FF) > > > > Txl wrote: > > > > > > it's impossible to keep the car going straight to start with > > > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: > > > CSPT7.12313$[email hidden]... > > > > It might help a little if people would say what problems they are > having > > > > instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still not sure

what > > > > some people are complaining about. I have tried it with aSidewinder

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> > -- > > Jason Monds > > http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) > > http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run Sims) > > (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying) > >

> I have the Ferrari ff wheel too. X axis is at 20%. Y is 20%. Z is 80%.Speed > sensitive set to 60% or higher. High speed handling is fine. Have you tried speed sensitivity set to about 10%? Feels much better I reckon (at least with my LWFF)

On the Controller page where you map the button and axis, you'll see joysticks at the bottom of the screen. Choose joystick #1 or #2 as appropriate and you'll see the "advanced" settings. I moved my X-axis to 40%, some use 20% to reduce the deadzone and provide better control of the car. (Man, wish I had F1-2001 at work... This information would be much more accurate :) Jason. Marc Collins wrote:

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> > Where is the advanced setup? I have keyboard, 2 stick/wheel and a FFB > settings icons. I don't see any advanced set-up, but I need to fix the > problem with inability to steer straight at high speeds with the Ferrari > wheel. > > Thanks, > > Marc

-- Jason Monds http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run Sims) (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying)

Thanks David. Can you explain exactly what is happening when I move away from 50%? I am stickler for full linear steering with no speed aids, etc. I hate software adjusting the wheel ratios or anything else for me on the fly. Just as I would hate it in a real car. The GPL only at low speed steering thing was driving me up the wall--thank goodness they allowed us to turn it off. I will try your settings, but I would love to know how it affects the linearity. I will try to leave the speed sensitivity alone for now--at least I think I understand that it is dulling the steering sensitivity at high speeds, which I don't want. Thanks, Marc "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:SmeU7.319985$[email hidden]... > I have the Ferrari ff wheel too. X axis is at 20%. Y is 20%. Z is 80%.Speed

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> sensitive set to 60% or higher. High speed handling is fine. > > David G Fisher > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:JPdU7.29744$[email hidden]... > > Where is the advanced setup? I have keyboard, 2 stick/wheel and a FFB > > settings icons. I don't see any advanced set-up, but I need to fix the > > problem with inability to steer straight at high speeds with the Ferrari > > wheel. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Marc > > > > "Jason Monds" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > FWIW, On the main controllers screen, leave the entries at 50% and

50%. > > > Goto the advanced setup and set the X-axis (steering axis) to 40% or > > > less. > > > > > > This reduced the deadzone in the middle of the wheel for me enough soI

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> > > could steer quite reliably. I didn't use DXTweak so a slight deadzone > > > is apparent, but not a major problem. > > > > > > Jason. > > > (Ferrari FF) > > > > > > Txl wrote: > > > > > > > > it's impossible to keep the car going straight to start with > > > > > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: > > > > CSPT7.12313$[email hidden]... > > > > > It might help a little if people would say what problems they are > > having > > > > > instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still not sure > what > > > > > some people are complaining about. I have tried it with a > Sidewinder > > > -- > > > Jason Monds > > > http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) > > > http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run

Sims) > > > (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying) > > > > > >

"Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1xSU7.29797$J%[email hidden]... > Thanks David. Can you explain exactly what is happening when I move away > from 50%? No. :-) I really don't know. I've never heard a detailed explanation from one of the developers, and they are the only ones who really know what's going on. The settings (their names and numbers) don't really matter until I get that explanation. I just set up the wheel/game until it feels right to me. I would guess the short and simple reason they'd give for all those individual settings along with the speed sensivity option is because the various wheels on the market are so different in feel and construction. David G Fisher > I am stickler for full linear steering with no speed aids, etc. > I hate software adjusting the wheel ratios or anything else for me on the > fly. Just as I would hate it in a real car. The GPL only at low speed > steering thing was driving me up the wall--thank goodness they allowed usto

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> turn it off. > > I will try your settings, but I would love to know how it affects the > linearity. I will try to leave the speed sensitivity alone for now--at > least I think I understand that it is dulling the steering sensitivity at > high speeds, which I don't want. > > Thanks, > > Marc > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:SmeU7.319985$[email hidden]... > > I have the Ferrari ff wheel too. X axis is at 20%. Y is 20%. Z is 80%. > Speed > > sensitive set to 60% or higher. High speed handling is fine. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:JPdU7.29744$[email hidden]... > > > Where is the advanced setup? I have keyboard, 2 stick/wheel and a FFB > > > settings icons. I don't see any advanced set-up, but I need to fix

the > > > problem with inability to steer straight at high speeds with theFerrari

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> > > wheel. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > "Jason Monds" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message

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> > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > FWIW, On the main controllers screen, leave the entries at 50% and > 50%. > > > > Goto the advanced setup and set the X-axis (steering axis) to 40% or > > > > less. > > > > > > > > This reduced the deadzone in the middle of the wheel for me enough

so > I > > > > could steer quite reliably. I didn't use DXTweak so a slightdeadzone

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> > > > is apparent, but not a major problem. > > > > > > > > Jason. > > > > (Ferrari FF) > > > > > > > > Txl wrote: > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to keep the car going straight to start with > > > > > > > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: > > > > > CSPT7.12313$[email hidden]... > > > > > > It might help a little if people would say what problems they

are

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> > > having > > > > > > instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still not sure > > what > > > > > > some people are complaining about. I have tried it with a > > Sidewinder > > > > -- > > > > Jason Monds > > > > http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) > > > > http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun Run > Sims) > > > > (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying) > > > > > > > > > > > >

I believe setting speed sensitivity to 0 gives you a constant steering ratio at all speeds. You can test this by setting it to 0, then adjusting the x axis ratio to something comfortable (probably around 10% to 20%) and driving around the track at something less than full speed (i.e. so you don't get any appreciable drift in the corners). Setting it to 0 feels most like a real car to me, however it also makes the wheel a bit too busy at speed, so I usually use about 10% speed sensitivity. This still feels very natural, but gives you more stable high speed steering. BTW speed sensitivity is not the same as steering linearity. Steering linearity is a feature in some sims which changes the ratio depending on wheel position, kind of like a more progressive version of a dead spot. F1 2001 does not allow you to adjust linearity, although you can add a dead spot. Some people have found that they like using 0% speed sensitivity and a 1% dead spot better than using any amount of speed sensitivity. So basically the settings that you have are first X axis sensitivity, which along with the Steering Lock setting in the vehicle setup determines the base steering ratio, Speed Sensitivity, which determines how much the steering ratio is reduced at high speeds, and the X axis dead spot, which puts a flat spot in the middle of the steering response curve. Some months ago (before F1 2001 was released) I heard from ISI that their research has shown that most of their players use gamepads and joysticks, so I believe the default settings of 50% speed sensitivity and 50% x axis sensitivity were designed with that in mind. Unfortunately a lot of people on the net are convinced that 50% is the linear setting for both, but if you drive the car around carefully with different settings I believe you will find that is not true. 50% is for joystick users, for wheels the settings above make a lot more sense. "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:1xSU7.29797$J%[email hidden]... > Thanks David. Can you explain exactly what is happening when I moveaway > from 50%? I am stickler for full linear steering with no speed aids,etc. > I hate software adjusting the wheel ratios or anything else for me onthe > fly. Just as I would hate it in a real car. The GPL only at lowspeed > steering thing was driving me up the wall--thank goodness they allowedus to > turn it off. > > I will try your settings, but I would love to know how it affects the > linearity. I will try to leave the speed sensitivity alone fornow--at > least I think I understand that it is dulling the steering sensitivityat

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> high speeds, which I don't want. > > Thanks, > > Marc > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:SmeU7.319985$[email hidden]... > > I have the Ferrari ff wheel too. X axis is at 20%. Y is 20%. Z is

80%.

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> Speed > > sensitive set to 60% or higher. High speed handling is fine. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:JPdU7.29744$[email hidden]... > > > Where is the advanced setup? I have keyboard, 2 stick/wheel and a

FFB > > > settings icons. I don't see any advanced set-up, but I need tofix the > > > problem with inability to steer straight at high speeds with theFerrari

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> > > wheel. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > "Jason Monds" <[email hidden]> wrote in

message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > FWIW, On the main controllers screen, leave the entries at 50%and > 50%. > > > > Goto the advanced setup and set the X-axis (steering axis) to40% or > > > > less. > > > > > > > > This reduced the deadzone in the middle of the wheel for meenough so > I > > > > could steer quite reliably. I didn't use DXTweak so a slightdeadzone

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> > > > is apparent, but not a major problem. > > > > > > > > Jason. > > > > (Ferrari FF) > > > > > > > > Txl wrote: > > > > > > > > > > it's impossible to keep the car going straight to start with > > > > > > > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de

news: > > > > > CSPT7.12313$[email hidden]... > > > > > > It might help a little if people would say what problemsthey are > > > having > > > > > > instead of just coming in here and bitching. I'm still notsure

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> > what > > > > > > some people are complaining about. I have tried it with a > > Sidewinder > > > > -- > > > > Jason Monds > > > > http://www.proracingclub.com - Pro Racing Club! (GPL) > > > > http://www.scprc.com - Stock Car Division of the PRC. (N4, Fun

Run

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> Sims) > > > > (Please remove 'no extra spork' when replying) > > > > > > > > > > > >