Re: Cockpit (in-car) View?! Why?

Um, you would have no peripheral vision at all if the view was moved up to the windshield. You would lose all side views out of the driver window, you would lose the rear-view mirror. But hey, I supposed they could add that option for those that wanted to use it. "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:F3yX7.7853$[email hidden]... > Hey all- > > I noticed 90% of you simulation people swear by the CockPit (in-car) view.I > just have a few questions as to why... > > If you are sitting at your desk, you have your steering wheel already > infront of you. You also have a window that you look out of (yourmonitor), > right? > > In cockpit view, there's a rendered steering wheel that moves when you do.I > don't understand at all! There's already a REAL wheel right infront ofyou, > in the proper spot, and it moves when you do. In cockpit view, you look > through the car's winshield, and are obstructed by the car's dash. But, > you're already looking through a winshield (your monitor) and you'realready > obstructed by the size of that monitor. > > I just don't understand it. You can see your own wheel, and you lookthrough

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> a glass monitor only to see an emulated wheel and glass winshield. Seems > sort of redundant to me. > > WHY isn't there a view from about where the winshield is? What I mean is, > the viewpoint should be placed 2 feet infront of where your head would be > (about where the winshield is). > > Think about it, my face is 2 feet from my monitor, so shouldn't the

monitor

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> be displaying from the point of view 2 feet infront of where the driver's > head is (about where the winshield is). > > I understand the cockpit view, if I was WEARING my monitor on my head... > > I've tried to drive lots of games on the Cockpit view, and couldn't stand > doing it at all. The best view I find is the view that is fullscreen

without > anything infront of it. This is usually the "Bumper" or "Bonnet" typeview. > But, I'm sure as you know there are a few problems with that. With a > "Bumper" view, your POV is a lot lower to the ground than it would be ifyou

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> were actually in the car. > > > -- > Mike Beauchamp > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > >

In article <F3yX7.7853$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > I've tried to drive lots of games on the Cockpit view, and couldn't stand > doing it at all. The best view I find is the view that is fullscreen without > anything infront of it. This is usually the "Bumper" or "Bonnet" type view. > But, I'm sure as you know there are a few problems with that. With a > "Bumper" view, your POV is a lot lower to the ground than it would be if you > were actually in the car. That's the main reason why I prefer cockpit view. It gives the correct eye level and perspective of the track, I find it easier to deal with other cars on the track as well as pick the turn in point and apex of the track from a cockpit view. The only game that I've played that has given me a decent perspective whilst not having a cockpit view would be GT3 but if it had a cockpit view, I'd use it. Cheers, Rod.

Hey all- I noticed 90% of you simulation people swear by the CockPit (in-car) view. I just have a few questions as to why... If you are sitting at your desk, you have your steering wheel already infront of you. You also have a window that you look out of (your monitor), right? In cockpit view, there's a rendered steering wheel that moves when you do. I don't understand at all! There's already a REAL wheel right infront of you, in the proper spot, and it moves when you do. In cockpit view, you look through the car's winshield, and are obstructed by the car's dash. But, you're already looking through a winshield (your monitor) and you're already obstructed by the size of that monitor. I just don't understand it. You can see your own wheel, and you look through a glass monitor only to see an emulated wheel and glass winshield. Seems sort of redundant to me. WHY isn't there a view from about where the winshield is? What I mean is, the viewpoint should be placed 2 feet infront of where your head would be (about where the winshield is). Think about it, my face is 2 feet from my monitor, so shouldn't the monitor be displaying from the point of view 2 feet infront of where the driver's head is (about where the winshield is). I understand the cockpit view, if I was WEARING my monitor on my head... I've tried to drive lots of games on the Cockpit view, and couldn't stand doing it at all. The best view I find is the view that is fullscreen without anything infront of it. This is usually the "Bumper" or "Bonnet" type view. But, I'm sure as you know there are a few problems with that. With a "Bumper" view, your POV is a lot lower to the ground than it would be if you were actually in the car. -- Mike Beauchamp http://mikebeauchamp.com

Nothing is stopping anyone from making the rear-view a little box at the top, like it is in a lot of games. But, I see what you mean. I hope you understood what I was trying to say though about the view thing... About the peripheral vision... If you say that you would lose all side views because the POV is moved 2 feet forward, then how does the "bumper camera" work? I mean, that's like 6-7 feet forward isn't it? I can drive perfectly find from the bumper views in all games... -- Mike Beauchamp http://mikebeauchamp.com "Aaron" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:K9yX7.217031$[email hidden]... > Um, you would have no peripheral vision at all if the view was moved up to > the windshield. You would lose all side views out of the driver window, you > would lose the rear-view mirror. But hey, I supposed they could add that > option for those that wanted to use it. > > > > "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:F3yX7.7853$[email hidden]... > > Hey all- > > > > I noticed 90% of you simulation people swear by the CockPit (in-car) view. > I > > just have a few questions as to why... > > > > If you are sitting at your desk, you have your steering wheel already > > infront of you. You also have a window that you look out of (your > monitor), > > right? > > > > In cockpit view, there's a rendered steering wheel that moves when you do. > I > > don't understand at all! There's already a REAL wheel right infront of > you, > > in the proper spot, and it moves when you do. In cockpit view, you look > > through the car's winshield, and are obstructed by the car's dash. But, > > you're already looking through a winshield (your monitor) and you're > already > > obstructed by the size of that monitor. > > > > I just don't understand it. You can see your own wheel, and you look > through > > a glass monitor only to see an emulated wheel and glass winshield. Seems > > sort of redundant to me. > > > > WHY isn't there a view from about where the winshield is? What I mean is, > > the viewpoint should be placed 2 feet infront of where your head would be > > (about where the winshield is). > > > > Think about it, my face is 2 feet from my monitor, so shouldn't the > monitor > > be displaying from the point of view 2 feet infront of where the driver's > > head is (about where the winshield is). > > > > I understand the cockpit view, if I was WEARING my monitor on my head... > > > > I've tried to drive lots of games on the Cockpit view, and couldn't stand > > doing it at all. The best view I find is the view that is fullscreen > without > > anything infront of it. This is usually the "Bumper" or "Bonnet" type > view. > > But, I'm sure as you know there are a few problems with that. With a > > "Bumper" view, your POV is a lot lower to the ground than it would be if > you > > were actually in the car. > > > > > > -- > > Mike Beauchamp > > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <vHyX7.7874$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > So, if there was a view that wasn't in the cockpit, but it was at the right > eye-level, you would use it instead right?? Depends on how it's been implemented. I find it a touch disorienting seeing the track extending to the bottom of the monitor. It's hard to determine the attitude of the car without the reference of a bonnet, nose cone or cockpit. Like I said, GT3 seems to convey this well enough, but it's the only game/sim that I play where it does. Same applies to flight-sims where a no-cockpit view actually markedly improves your visibility but doesn't sufficiently reflect the attitude of the plane. Cheers, Rod.

So, if there was a view that wasn't in the cockpit, but it was at the right eye-level, you would use it instead right?? Any game developers listening? :) -- Mike Beauchamp http://mikebeauchamp.com "Rod Prince" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <F3yX7.7853$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > > I've tried to drive lots of games on the Cockpit view, and couldn't stand > > doing it at all. The best view I find is the view that is fullscreen without > > anything infront of it. This is usually the "Bumper" or "Bonnet" type view. > > But, I'm sure as you know there are a few problems with that. With a > > "Bumper" view, your POV is a lot lower to the ground than it would be if you > > were actually in the car. > > That's the main reason why I prefer cockpit view. It gives the correct > eye level and perspective of the track, I find it easier to deal with > other cars on the track as well as pick the turn in point and apex of > the track from a cockpit view. > > The only game that I've played that has given me a decent perspective > whilst not having a cockpit view would be GT3 but if it had a cockpit > view, I'd use it. > > Cheers, > Rod.

"Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vHyX7.7874$[email hidden]... > So, if there was a view that wasn't in the cockpit, but it was at theright > eye-level, you would use it instead right?? > > Any game developers listening? :) No. You'll find I am one of the most virulent cockpit Nazi's. If I'm simulating driving then I want to simulate where my butt should be. I know many people have problems with two wheels, but that has never been a problem for me. I just look out the window, not at the wheel. A Winston cup driver does not sit in a seat like a regular car, the seat is lower, much lower, down on the floorpan. your view is barely level with the top of the dash. So a real driver can't see the pretty paint job on the bonnet, he can't see the tire left by the pit crew just in front of him. I'm sure we can argue for the rest of the year about how accurate a paticular viewpoint is...but I don't drive my personal car perched up on the nose, I don't fly behind my car on a hanglider swooping behind the vehicle. I drive from inside the car. So when I use a simulator, I use the view that seems most accurate to what a real race driver would see. That...is the cockpit view. Dave Henrie

Dave, I'm not arguing saying that the Bumper view, or that a behind the car view is better.. AT ALL. What I'm saying is that since the monitor is 2 feet away from my face, then the viewpoint should be 2 feet infront of where the drivers head would be in the car. The way cockpit views are now, I'd have to have the monitor strapped to my face for it to be accurate. Do you see what I'm saying? And as for winston cup drivers not sitting at the same height, that will still totally be reflected if the view was moved 2 feet foward to the winshield. I didn't say 2 feet downward or anything... -- Mike Beauchamp http://mikebeauchamp.com "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jjzX7.19378$[email hidden]... > > "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:vHyX7.7874$[email hidden]... > > So, if there was a view that wasn't in the cockpit, but it was at the > right > > eye-level, you would use it instead right?? > > > > Any game developers listening? :) > No. > You'll find I am one of the most virulent cockpit Nazi's. If I'm > simulating driving then I want to simulate where my butt should be. I know > many people have problems with two wheels, but that has never been a problem > for me. I just look out the window, not at the wheel. > A Winston cup driver does not sit in a seat like a regular car, the seat > is lower, much lower, down on the floorpan. your view is barely level with > the top of the dash. So a real driver can't see the pretty paint job on the > bonnet, he can't see the tire left by the pit crew just in front of him. > I'm sure we can argue for the rest of the year about how accurate a > paticular viewpoint is...but I don't drive my personal car perched up on the > nose, I don't fly behind my car on a hanglider swooping behind the vehicle. > I drive from inside the car. So when I use a simulator, I use the view > that seems most accurate to what a real race driver would see. That...is > the cockpit view. > Dave Henrie > > >

"Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:F3yX7.7853$[email hidden]... > I noticed 90% of you simulation people swear by the CockPit (in-car)view. I > just have a few questions as to why... The cockpit view gives you a sense of how wide the car itself is. You don't get that from the bumper view. On games with wide tracks it doesn't matter, but on sims where precise track or racing line does matter (rally, NASCAR, Indy Car/F1) the bumper view is too far forward. The bumper view also doesn't "shift slightly" to account for your eyes anticipating the turn, where as most incockpit views do shift slightly in a turn. --KC

I think all you want is the ability to zoom in and out, just like you can with your own eyes by focussing on a certain distance. Compare to the cockpit view of IL2 Sturmovik (flight sim). One can zoom in so as to only have the look through the window, or zoom out to see all instruments and the flightstick. Zooming out and looking down, one can even see the bottom of the seat :) (Pilot body is transparent). For me the wheel I hold is not visible when I drive. I limit my view to what is on the monitor, the rest of the world vanishes... So the wheel on the screen is only natural to me. In GPL I even have the driver's arms on. The motions of the wheel and the arms provide for some extra feedback. Bart Westra "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:F3yX7.7853$[email hidden]... > Hey all- > > I noticed 90% of you simulation people swear by the CockPit (in-car) view.I > just have a few questions as to why... > > If you are sitting at your desk, you have your steering wheel already > infront of you. You also have a window that you look out of (yourmonitor), > right? > > In cockpit view, there's a rendered steering wheel that moves when you do.I > don't understand at all! There's already a REAL wheel right infront ofyou, > in the proper spot, and it moves when you do. In cockpit view, you look > through the car's winshield, and are obstructed by the car's dash. But, > you're already looking through a winshield (your monitor) and you'realready > obstructed by the size of that monitor. > > I just don't understand it. You can see your own wheel, and you lookthrough

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> a glass monitor only to see an emulated wheel and glass winshield. Seems > sort of redundant to me. > > WHY isn't there a view from about where the winshield is? What I mean is, > the viewpoint should be placed 2 feet infront of where your head would be > (about where the winshield is). > > Think about it, my face is 2 feet from my monitor, so shouldn't the

monitor

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> be displaying from the point of view 2 feet infront of where the driver's > head is (about where the winshield is). > > I understand the cockpit view, if I was WEARING my monitor on my head... > > I've tried to drive lots of games on the Cockpit view, and couldn't stand > doing it at all. The best view I find is the view that is fullscreen

without > anything infront of it. This is usually the "Bumper" or "Bonnet" typeview. > But, I'm sure as you know there are a few problems with that. With a > "Bumper" view, your POV is a lot lower to the ground than it would be ifyou

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> were actually in the car. > > > -- > Mike Beauchamp > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > >

"Mike Beauchamp" wrote...

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> Hey all- > > I noticed 90% of you simulation people swear by the CockPit > (in-car) view. I just have a few questions as to why... > > If you are sitting at your desk, you have your steering wheel > already infront of you. You also have a window that you look > out of (your monitor), right?

Not necessarily, I have my monitor to the left, angled towards me. I look straight past my MOMO at the virtual wheel.

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> In cockpit view, there's a rendered steering wheel that moves > when you do. I don't understand at all! There's already a REAL > wheel right infront of you, in the proper spot, and it moves > when you do. In cockpit view, you look through the car's > winshield, and are obstructed by the car's dash. But, you're > already looking through a winshield (your monitor) and you're > already obstructed by the size of that monitor. > > I just don't understand it. You can see your own wheel, and > you look through a glass monitor only to see an emulated wheel > and glass winshield. Seems sort of redundant to me.

It's not, it would be if one was sitting in a full motion simulator, but it's not in PC racing sims. To convey the illusion of motion, cornerning forces, etc.. the cockpit viewpoint moves around a little to trick one's brain into "feeling" the car. Your PC steering wheel is not attached to the virtual car, so, should you use it as part of your particular viewpoint, the dash of the car doesn't stay put with reference to your wheel. I personally find that very off-putting, but any racing sim worth it's salt allows you to turn the wheel/hands off so you can have things your way and see for yourself whether you like it or not.

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> WHY isn't there a view from about where the winshield is? What > I mean is, the viewpoint should be placed 2 feet infront of > where your head would be (about where the winshield is). > > Think about it, my face is 2 feet from my monitor, so shouldn't > the monitor be displaying from the point of view 2 feet infront > of where the driver's head is (about where the winshield is). > > I understand the cockpit view, if I was WEARING my monitor on > my head...

Again, true, but only if one's operating in an environment where totally immersive, as in a full motion simulator with wraparound screen or virtual reality. For the PC I agree with Bart. My home office looks nothing like a race car on a track, so the monitor must provide me with a virtual world to concentrate on so as to lock out everything else.

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> I've tried to drive lots of games on the Cockpit view, and couldn't > stand doing it at all. The best view I find is the view that is > fullscreen without anything infront of it. This is usually the > "Bumper" or "Bonnet" type view. > But, I'm sure as you know there are a few problems with that. With > a "Bumper" view, your POV is a lot lower to the ground than it would > be if you were actually in the car.

Yes, your situational awareness is bound to suffer. However, as a driver your priority is still extract the maximum from your car and the conditions, how you do that is up to you. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

"Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:F3yX7.7853$[email hidden]... > Hey all- > > I noticed 90% of you simulation people swear by the CockPit (in-car) view.I > just have a few questions as to why... > > If you are sitting at your desk, you have your steering wheel already > infront of you. You also have a window that you look out of (yourmonitor), > right? > > In cockpit view, there's a rendered steering wheel that moves when you do.I > don't understand at all! There's already a REAL wheel right infront ofyou, > in the proper spot, and it moves when you do. In cockpit view, you look > through the car's winshield, and are obstructed by the car's dash. But, > you're already looking through a winshield (your monitor) and you'realready > obstructed by the size of that monitor. The moving wheels now-a-days are eye candy for sure but they do help a bit in seeing that the computer is seeing yuor movments exactly... your wheel on yuor desk's movment does not represent the amount of movement exactly of the "virtual wheel" always. > I just don't understand it. You can see your own wheel, and you lookthrough > a glass monitor only to see an emulated wheel and glass winshield. Seems > sort of redundant to me. You don't use a cockpit view for that. You use it since its the best palce to get a feeling of the car, the feel it move around you liek you would in real life. You also have most of your guages and a sense of speed. Out of car views are playstation views, very few people learn to go fast with that view and a wheel, which is wy a Playstation game have never emulated a sim. > WHY isn't there a view from about where the winshield is? What I mean is, > the viewpoint should be placed 2 feet infront of where your head would be > (about where the winshield is). Eh, most do have that feature now. A lot of rally cars have the top of the bonnet which is haveing the camera just at the windshield and F1 type games have it somehwer on teh nose whre there is no longer any obstructions. Problem is, both are too fqr forward to aain allow you feel the car rotating around you, it rotate from the backbefore yuo can detect it. >

Mike Beauchamp <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MtzX7.7936$[email hidden]... > Dave, I'm not arguing saying that the Bumper view, or that a behind thecar > view is better.. AT ALL. > > What I'm saying is that since the monitor is 2 feet away from my face,then > the viewpoint should be 2 feet infront of where the drivers head would bein > the car. The way cockpit views are now, I'd have to have the monitor > strapped to my face for it to be accurate. Do you see what I'm saying? > Well, if nothing else, we should be able to adjust the seating position in the cockpit view for that. I sit somewhat close to my monitor when i'm racing, but my room mate sits a lot farther away. I'm the one with the larger monitor also, 19" while his is 17". So, i see what you're saying. There should be more options, but don't take my cockpit view away. =) -- - Will DeRivera - GPL Rank 105.63 - http://www.numic.net - http://www.luxt.com - Hi, I'm a sig virus. - Please add me to the end of your sig and help me take over the world.

"Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> writes: > In cockpit view, there's a rendered steering wheel that moves when > you do. yes, and that SUCKS. Papyrus seem to be just about the only company that knows I don't have four arms. > I just don't understand it. You can see your own wheel, and you look through > a glass monitor only to see an emulated wheel and glass winshield. Seems > sort of redundant to me. the window frame is a good reference for a lot of stuff. if a sim implements head movements (not left-right, but a head thats bumping around), cockpit view greatly adds to the driving feeling, and provides a lot of feedback. > WHY isn't there a view from about where the winshield is? you mean you've found a game that features a cockpit camera, but no hood camera?

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> What I mean is, > the viewpoint should be placed 2 feet infront of where your head would be > (about where the winshield is). > > Think about it, my face is 2 feet from my monitor, so shouldn't the monitor > be displaying from the point of view 2 feet infront of where the driver's > head is (about where the winshield is).

that argument isn't very good. or, rather, it is, but it carries with it another thing that wouldn't be very beneficial. the field of view would be about 20-25 degrees, and if you ignore that, the whole argument falls on its face. :) > I've tried to drive lots of games on the Cockpit view, and couldn't stand > doing it at all. well, then don't. it's not like you need our permission or anything. :) -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 to err is human -- to forgive is bovine.

"Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> writes: > What I'm saying is that since the monitor is 2 feet away from my face, then > the viewpoint should be 2 feet infront of where the drivers head would be in > the car. I don't think that's what you're saying. :) I think what you're saying is that the user should be allowed to specify the POV and FOV for himself. as a former unix programmer, I whole-heartedly agree with this line of thinking. :) -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 myk, trygg og god.

> > > > Well, if nothing else, we should be able to adjust the seating position in > the cockpit view for that. >>Ah, SODA, a sim ahead of it's time.

In article <[email hidden]>, "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> writes: >Not necessarily, I have my monitor to the left, angled towards me. I look >straight past my MOMO at the virtual wheel. If your monitor is at an angle, it seems like that would give you a tired neck... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <F3yX7.7853$[email hidden]>, "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> >In cockpit view, there's a rendered steering wheel that moves when you do. I >don't understand at all! There's already a REAL wheel right infront of you, >in the proper spot, and it moves when you do. In cockpit view, you look >through the car's winshield, and are obstructed by the car's dash. But, >you're already looking through a winshield (your monitor) and you're already >obstructed by the size of that monitor. > >I just don't understand it. You can see your own wheel, and you look through >a glass monitor only to see an emulated wheel and glass winshield. Seems >sort of redundant to me.

Most people disable the on-screen wheel. If the game doesn't have a facility for that, people usually complain, for the reasons you stated...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Thats why there is an option to turn off the wheel. lol. "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:F3yX7.7853$[email hidden]... > Hey all- > > I noticed 90% of you simulation people swear by the CockPit (in-car) view.I > just have a few questions as to why... > > If you are sitting at your desk, you have your steering wheel already > infront of you. You also have a window that you look out of (yourmonitor), > right? > > In cockpit view, there's a rendered steering wheel that moves when you do.I > don't understand at all! There's already a REAL wheel right infront ofyou, > in the proper spot, and it moves when you do. In cockpit view, you look > through the car's winshield, and are obstructed by the car's dash. But, > you're already looking through a winshield (your monitor) and you'realready > obstructed by the size of that monitor. > > I just don't understand it. You can see your own wheel, and you lookthrough

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> a glass monitor only to see an emulated wheel and glass winshield. Seems > sort of redundant to me. > > WHY isn't there a view from about where the winshield is? What I mean is, > the viewpoint should be placed 2 feet infront of where your head would be > (about where the winshield is). > > Think about it, my face is 2 feet from my monitor, so shouldn't the

monitor

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> be displaying from the point of view 2 feet infront of where the driver's > head is (about where the winshield is). > > I understand the cockpit view, if I was WEARING my monitor on my head... > > I've tried to drive lots of games on the Cockpit view, and couldn't stand > doing it at all. The best view I find is the view that is fullscreen

without > anything infront of it. This is usually the "Bumper" or "Bonnet" typeview. > But, I'm sure as you know there are a few problems with that. With a > "Bumper" view, your POV is a lot lower to the ground than it would be ifyou

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> were actually in the car. > > > -- > Mike Beauchamp > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > >

yeaah, now THAT's what i'm saying :) -- Mike Beauchamp http://mikebeauchamp.com "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > What I'm saying is that since the monitor is 2 feet away from my face, then > > the viewpoint should be 2 feet infront of where the drivers head would be in > > the car. > > I don't think that's what you're saying. :) > > I think what you're saying is that the user should be allowed to > specify the POV and FOV for himself. as a former unix programmer, I > whole-heartedly agree with this line of thinking. :) > > > -- > Gunnar > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 > myk, trygg og god.

"Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> writes: SNIPPED... > > What I mean is, > > the viewpoint should be placed 2 feet infront of where your head wouldbe > > (about where the winshield is). > > > > Think about it, my face is 2 feet from my monitor, so shouldn't themonitor > > be displaying from the point of view 2 feet infront of where thedriver's

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> > head is (about where the winshield is). > > that argument isn't very good. or, rather, it is, but it carries with > it another thing that wouldn't be very beneficial. the field of view > would be about 20-25 degrees, and if you ignore that, the whole > argument falls on its face. :) >

I don't think he is talking about changing the Field of View (FOV), rather just MOVING the camera (POV) forward within the 3d space in the game. This has no effect on FOV and would provide the correct viewing height without the obstruction of the dashboard, pillars, etc. I agree with Mike B. - it would be my an excellent point of view.

"EldredP" wrote... > If your monitor is at an angle, it seems like that would give > you a tired neck... No kidding... I just went 15 laps at the Ring (2nd to Joe Sembach at 6m45s and last active runner <g>) and near the end my neck hurted like hell. But I need this computer to work on (i.e. don't want to mess with the arrangement for simming) and don't have room for a dedicated installation.... one gets used to it and aspirin is cheap. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

I'm not posting this for "permission" or anything, you got me wrong. I'm asking you guys, because you guys are hardcore sim guys/girls, and I respect that. It's just an idea, and was hoping it would start a good discussion... -- Mike Beauchamp http://mikebeauchamp.com "Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > In cockpit view, there's a rendered steering wheel that moves when > > you do. > > yes, and that SUCKS. Papyrus seem to be just about the only company > that knows I don't have four arms. > > > I just don't understand it. You can see your own wheel, and you look through > > a glass monitor only to see an emulated wheel and glass winshield. Seems > > sort of redundant to me. > > the window frame is a good reference for a lot of stuff. if a sim > implements head movements (not left-right, but a head thats bumping > around), cockpit view greatly adds to the driving feeling, and > provides a lot of feedback. > > > > WHY isn't there a view from about where the winshield is? > > you mean you've found a game that features a cockpit camera, but no > hood camera? > > > > What I mean is, > > the viewpoint should be placed 2 feet infront of where your head would be > > (about where the winshield is). > > > > Think about it, my face is 2 feet from my monitor, so shouldn't the monitor > > be displaying from the point of view 2 feet infront of where the driver's > > head is (about where the winshield is). > > that argument isn't very good. or, rather, it is, but it carries with > it another thing that wouldn't be very beneficial. the field of view > would be about 20-25 degrees, and if you ignore that, the whole > argument falls on its face. :) > > > > I've tried to drive lots of games on the Cockpit view, and couldn't stand > > doing it at all. > > well, then don't. it's not like you need our permission or anything. :) > > > -- > Gunnar > #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 > to err is human -- to forgive is bovine.

> Thats why there is an option to turn off the wheel. lol. There was a lot more to my message than "Why is there a wheeeel?? I don't like it". But anyways, I do appreciate the turning off the wheel option in certain games, and yes I've noticed it was there. -- Mike Beauchamp http://mikebeauchamp.com "Charlie Buscher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FcLX7.8758$[email hidden]... > Thats why there is an option to turn off the wheel. lol. > > "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:F3yX7.7853$[email hidden]... > > Hey all- > > > > I noticed 90% of you simulation people swear by the CockPit (in-car) view. > I > > just have a few questions as to why... > > > > If you are sitting at your desk, you have your steering wheel already > > infront of you. You also have a window that you look out of (your > monitor), > > right? > > > > In cockpit view, there's a rendered steering wheel that moves when you do. > I > > don't understand at all! There's already a REAL wheel right infront of > you, > > in the proper spot, and it moves when you do. In cockpit view, you look > > through the car's winshield, and are obstructed by the car's dash. But, > > you're already looking through a winshield (your monitor) and you're > already > > obstructed by the size of that monitor. > > > > I just don't understand it. You can see your own wheel, and you look > through > > a glass monitor only to see an emulated wheel and glass winshield. Seems > > sort of redundant to me. > > > > WHY isn't there a view from about where the winshield is? What I mean is, > > the viewpoint should be placed 2 feet infront of where your head would be > > (about where the winshield is). > > > > Think about it, my face is 2 feet from my monitor, so shouldn't the > monitor > > be displaying from the point of view 2 feet infront of where the driver's > > head is (about where the winshield is). > > > > I understand the cockpit view, if I was WEARING my monitor on my head... > > > > I've tried to drive lots of games on the Cockpit view, and couldn't stand > > doing it at all. The best view I find is the view that is fullscreen > without > > anything infront of it. This is usually the "Bumper" or "Bonnet" type > view. > > But, I'm sure as you know there are a few problems with that. With a > > "Bumper" view, your POV is a lot lower to the ground than it would be if > you > > were actually in the car. > > > > > > -- > > Mike Beauchamp > > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > > > > > > > > >

Gary Wampler <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:0PJX7.188$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > Well, if nothing else, we should be able to adjust the seating positionin > > the cockpit view for that. > >> > Ah, SODA, a sim ahead of it's time. > I still say they need a SODA 2...or at least make a D3D or OpenGL patch for the first one. =) -- - Will DeRivera - GPL Rank 103.93, don't laugh, i suck. - http://www.numic.net - http://www.luxt.com - Hi, I'm a sig virus. - Please add me to the end of your sig and help me take over the world.

There is a POV editor for GPL maybe somthing will bounce around after NR2002 is out for a bit. Charlie "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iXTX7.8807$[email hidden]...

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> > Thats why there is an option to turn off the wheel. lol. > > There was a lot more to my message than "Why is there a wheeeel?? I don't > like it". > > But anyways, I do appreciate the turning off the wheel option in certain > games, and yes I've noticed it was there. > > -- > Mike Beauchamp > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > "Charlie Buscher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:FcLX7.8758$[email hidden]... > > Thats why there is an option to turn off the wheel. lol. > > > > "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:F3yX7.7853$[email hidden]... > > > Hey all- > > > > > > I noticed 90% of you simulation people swear by the CockPit (in-car) > view. > > I > > > just have a few questions as to why... > > > > > > If you are sitting at your desk, you have your steering wheel already > > > infront of you. You also have a window that you look out of (your > > monitor), > > > right? > > > > > > In cockpit view, there's a rendered steering wheel that moves when you > do. > > I > > > don't understand at all! There's already a REAL wheel right infront of > > you, > > > in the proper spot, and it moves when you do. In cockpit view, you

look > > > through the car's winshield, and are obstructed by the car's dash.But,

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> > > you're already looking through a winshield (your monitor) and you're > > already > > > obstructed by the size of that monitor. > > > > > > I just don't understand it. You can see your own wheel, and you look > > through > > > a glass monitor only to see an emulated wheel and glass winshield.

Seems

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> > > sort of redundant to me. > > > > > > WHY isn't there a view from about where the winshield is? What I mean > is, > > > the viewpoint should be placed 2 feet infront of where your head would > be > > > (about where the winshield is). > > > > > > Think about it, my face is 2 feet from my monitor, so shouldn't the > > monitor > > > be displaying from the point of view 2 feet infront of where the > driver's > > > head is (about where the winshield is). > > > > > > I understand the cockpit view, if I was WEARING my monitor on my

head...

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> > > > > > I've tried to drive lots of games on the Cockpit view, and couldn't > stand > > > doing it at all. The best view I find is the view that is fullscreen > > without > > > anything infront of it. This is usually the "Bumper" or "Bonnet" type > > view. > > > But, I'm sure as you know there are a few problems with that. With a > > > "Bumper" view, your POV is a lot lower to the ground than it would be

if

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> > you > > > were actually in the car. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Mike Beauchamp > > > http://mikebeauchamp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

In article <MtzX7.7936$[email hidden]>, "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote: >The way cockpit views are now, I'd have to have the monitor >strapped to my face for it to be accurate. Do you see what I'm saying? I actually prefer to race with my monitor strapped to my head. But the duct tape really hurts when I'm finished. The thing I really hate, is when I use a joystick instead of the wheel, I see another joystick on the screen, where the wheel used to be. I find that very annoying. I haven't tried using the keyboard yet....... Happy New Year to all. Enjoy your racing, no matter which view you use, or game you play.

<[email hidden]> (snip) > The thing I really hate, is when I use a joystick instead of the wheel, > I see another joystick on the screen, where the wheel used to be. > I find that very annoying. > I haven't tried using the keyboard yet....... Don't bother with trying to steer with a keyboard. I tried it....I picked up the keyboard and turned it left...nothing happened. I turned it right...nothing happened. I shook the keyboard...nothing happened. I just don't get how folks steer with one of those things... :) dave henrie > > Happy New Year to all. > Enjoy your racing, no matter which view you use, or game you play.

You forgot to strap it to your steering wheel ;) It's the only way ANYONE could use one to drive GPL !! :) -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> "Dave Henrie" wrote > > Don't bother with trying to steer with a keyboard. I tried it....I > picked up the keyboard and turned it left...nothing happened. I turned it > right...nothing happened. I shook the keyboard...nothing happened. I just > don't get how folks steer with one of those things... > :) > dave henrie > > > > Happy New Year to all. > > Enjoy your racing, no matter which view you use, or game you play. > >

Hmmmm.... LOL! -Larry "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a0tcnj$6cj$[email hidden]...

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> You forgot to strap it to your steering wheel ;) > It's the only way ANYONE could use one to drive GPL !! :) > > -- > > Ian P > <email invalid due to spam> > > > "Dave Henrie" wrote > > > > Don't bother with trying to steer with a keyboard. I tried it....I > > picked up the keyboard and turned it left...nothing happened. I turned

it

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> > right...nothing happened. I shook the keyboard...nothing happened. I > just > > don't get how folks steer with one of those things... > > :) > > dave henrie > > > > > > Happy New Year to all. > > > Enjoy your racing, no matter which view you use, or game you play. > > > > > >

Harharharhar :) happy new years to you too! Mike http://mikebeauchamp.com <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a0sni6$jdn$[email hidden]...

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> In article <MtzX7.7936$[email hidden]>, > "Mike Beauchamp" <[email hidden]> wrote: > >The way cockpit views are now, I'd have to have the monitor > >strapped to my face for it to be accurate. Do you see what I'm saying? > > > I actually prefer to race with my monitor strapped to my head. > But the duct tape really hurts when I'm finished. > The thing I really hate, is when I use a joystick instead of the wheel, > I see another joystick on the screen, where the wheel used to be. > I find that very annoying. > I haven't tried using the keyboard yet....... > > Happy New Year to all. > Enjoy your racing, no matter which view you use, or game you play.