GF2 Framerates.

Hi there, I am currently running a 4x AGP GF2 card on a board that only supports 2x AGP, am I correct in assuming that I would only get 1/2 the possible frame rates in NR2002? Please Advise. -- " Give Me Two Right Sides Only."

No Tirespin,that is not quite correct ;-) As you know AGP was only designed to offer the necessary bandwidth and latency to perform texture mapping directly from your system memory. The multiples (x1,x2,x4) influence both bandwidth and data transfer rate. So for example if you have a bus frequency of 100Mhz,your AGP x2 bandwidth will be 200mhz and AGP x4 will be 400Mhz but of course this isn't the only factor towards frame rate. AGP doubled the data transfer rate of PCI and subsequently AGP x2 doubled that and so on. So although it has an influence it will certainly not be half as much due to just that factor being half. Morgan Boof

Thank you for the explanation. It's just that I am considering doing a MB & Chip upgrade and I know that the board I have currently only has 2x AGP support. My card is capable of 4x and I wanted to know if I would see a good deal of difference between them. I was trying out the new Nascar 2002 demo and I noticed I was only getting 25-30 FPS and was not sure if my video card alone made the difference. The system I have is a P-2 400 MHZ with 512 Meg Ram, and a 32 Meg G-Force-2 4 x AGP video card. I am contemplating going to a P-4 1.9 Gig 4X AGP system. I should expect to see a great improvement over what I am currently running. Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated. -- " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." "Morgan Boof" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a11smd$f9n$[email hidden]... > No Tirespin,that is not quite correct ;-) > > As you know AGP was only designed to offer the necessary bandwidth and > latency to perform texture mapping directly from your system memory. > > The multiples (x1,x2,x4) influence both bandwidth and data transfer rate. > > So for example if you have a bus frequency of 100Mhz,your AGP x2 bandwidth > will be 200mhz and AGP x4 will be 400Mhz but of course this isn't the only > factor towards frame rate. > > AGP doubled the data transfer rate of PCI and subsequently AGP x2 doubled > that and so on. > > So although it has an influence it will certainly not be half as much due to > just that factor being half. > > > Morgan Boof > > > >

My recommendation would be to do your upgraqde, and see. Currently I don't beleive your video card is the performance bottleneck in your system, it may well be after the upgrade. I don't know whether you are referring to an MX200 card or some other GF2 card you have not made that clear. -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash TireSpin43 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vI4Z7.24334$[email hidden]... > Thank you for the explanation. It's just that I am considering doing a MB & > Chip upgrade and I know that the board I have currently only has 2x AGP > support. My card is capable of 4x and I wanted to know if I would see a good > deal of difference between them. I was trying out the new Nascar 2002 demo > and I noticed I was only getting 25-30 FPS and was not sure if my video card > alone made the difference. The system I have is a P-2 400 MHZ with 512 Meg > Ram, and a 32 Meg G-Force-2 4 x AGP video card. I am contemplating going to > a P-4 1.9 Gig 4X AGP system. I should expect to see a great improvement over > what I am currently running. Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated. > > -- > " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." > "Morgan Boof" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a11smd$f9n$[email hidden]... > > No Tirespin,that is not quite correct ;-) > > > > As you know AGP was only designed to offer the necessary bandwidth and > > latency to perform texture mapping directly from your system memory. > > > > The multiples (x1,x2,x4) influence both bandwidth and data transfer rate. > > > > So for example if you have a bus frequency of 100Mhz,your AGP x2 bandwidth > > will be 200mhz and AGP x4 will be 400Mhz but of course this isn't the only > > factor towards frame rate. > > > > AGP doubled the data transfer rate of PCI and subsequently AGP x2 doubled > > that and so on. > > > > So although it has an influence it will certainly not be half as much due > to > > just that factor being half. > > > > > > Morgan Boof > > > > > > > > > >

TireSpin43 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vI4Z7.24334$[email hidden]... > Thank you for the explanation. It's just that I am considering doing a MB& > Chip upgrade and I know that the board I have currently only has 2x AGP > support. My card is capable of 4x and I wanted to know if I would see agood > deal of difference between them. I was trying out the new Nascar 2002 demo > and I noticed I was only getting 25-30 FPS and was not sure if my videocard > alone made the difference. The system I have is a P-2 400 MHZ with 512 Meg > Ram, and a 32 Meg G-Force-2 4 x AGP video card. I am contemplating goingto > a P-4 1.9 Gig 4X AGP system. I should expect to see a great improvementover > what I am currently running. Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated. > In your current system, no, 2xAGP won't be the limiting factor. -- - Will DeRivera - GPL Rank 103.93 - http://www.numic.net - http://www.luxt.com - Hi, I'm a sig virus. - Please add me to the end of your sig and help me take over the world.

You are correct I was not very clear on that matter. Here is the card I have it's an Asus AGP-V7700 Deluxe Geforce2 GTS with 32 megs of Ram. The card seems to perform well considering the age and speed of the computer. I want to ensure that I can handle most of the upcoming racing release's. Thanks for your comments on this. -- " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OW4Z7.323061$[email hidden]... > My recommendation would be to do your upgraqde, and see. Currently I don't beleive your video card > is the performance bottleneck in your system, it may well be after the upgrade. I don't know > whether you are referring to an MX200 card or some other GF2 card you have not made that clear. > > -- > Biz > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and > the....." - Ash > > > TireSpin43 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vI4Z7.24334$[email hidden]... > > Thank you for the explanation. It's just that I am considering doing a MB & > > Chip upgrade and I know that the board I have currently only has 2x AGP > > support. My card is capable of 4x and I wanted to know if I would see a good > > deal of difference between them. I was trying out the new Nascar 2002 demo > > and I noticed I was only getting 25-30 FPS and was not sure if my video card > > alone made the difference. The system I have is a P-2 400 MHZ with 512 Meg > > Ram, and a 32 Meg G-Force-2 4 x AGP video card. I am contemplating going to > > a P-4 1.9 Gig 4X AGP system. I should expect to see a great improvement over > > what I am currently running. Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated. > > > > -- > > " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." > > "Morgan Boof" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:a11smd$f9n$[email hidden]... > > > No Tirespin,that is not quite correct ;-) > > > > > > As you know AGP was only designed to offer the necessary bandwidth and > > > latency to perform texture mapping directly from your system memory. > > > > > > The multiples (x1,x2,x4) influence both bandwidth and data transfer rate. > > > > > > So for example if you have a bus frequency of 100Mhz,your AGP x2 bandwidth > > > will be 200mhz and AGP x4 will be 400Mhz but of course this isn't the only > > > factor towards frame rate. > > > > > > AGP doubled the data transfer rate of PCI and subsequently AGP x2 doubled > > > that and so on. > > > > > > So although it has an influence it will certainly not be half as much due > > to > > > just that factor being half. > > > > > > > > > Morgan Boof > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

What would you expect to be causing the poor frame rate performance? Any Idea's? Thanks -- " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." "Will DeRivera" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:q7bZ7.2286$[email hidden]... > > TireSpin43 <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:vI4Z7.24334$[email hidden]... > > Thank you for the explanation. It's just that I am considering doing a MB > & > > Chip upgrade and I know that the board I have currently only has 2x AGP > > support. My card is capable of 4x and I wanted to know if I would see a > good > > deal of difference between them. I was trying out the new Nascar 2002 demo > > and I noticed I was only getting 25-30 FPS and was not sure if my video > card > > alone made the difference. The system I have is a P-2 400 MHZ with 512 Meg > > Ram, and a 32 Meg G-Force-2 4 x AGP video card. I am contemplating going > to > > a P-4 1.9 Gig 4X AGP system. I should expect to see a great improvement > over > > what I am currently running. Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated. > > > > In your current system, no, 2xAGP won't be the limiting factor. > -- > - Will DeRivera > - GPL Rank 103.93 > - http://www.numic.net > - http://www.luxt.com > - Hi, I'm a sig virus. > - Please add me to the end of your sig and help me take over the world. > >

CPU is bottleneck. AGP 1,2,or 4x does not make any difference in the real world - it is much slower than having a decent amount of RAM on the video card in the first place. If AGP 4x was fast enough, we'd be seeing Geforce 2/3's with 4Mb ram. Geforce 4's when released will have 64Mb/128Mb. Have you tried different resolutions.If frame rate stays nearly the same if you lower the resolution then you are CPU limited. Try running 16bit not 32 bit if haven't already. -- Peter H GPL sucks...you in "TireSpin43" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:%tiZ7.268$[email hidden]... > What would you expect to be causing the poor frame rate performance? Any > Idea's? > > Thanks

CPU a P2-400 is just not what it used to be. SLG "TireSpin43" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>What would you expect to be causing the poor frame rate performance? Any >Idea's? > >Thanks > >-- >" Give Me Two Right Sides Only." >"Will DeRivera" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:q7bZ7.2286$[email hidden]... >> >> TireSpin43 <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:vI4Z7.24334$[email hidden]... >> > Thank you for the explanation. It's just that I am considering doing a >MB >> & >> > Chip upgrade and I know that the board I have currently only has 2x AGP >> > support. My card is capable of 4x and I wanted to know if I would see a >> good >> > deal of difference between them. I was trying out the new Nascar 2002 >demo >> > and I noticed I was only getting 25-30 FPS and was not sure if my video >> card >> > alone made the difference. The system I have is a P-2 400 MHZ with 512 >Meg >> > Ram, and a 32 Meg G-Force-2 4 x AGP video card. I am contemplating going >> to >> > a P-4 1.9 Gig 4X AGP system. I should expect to see a great improvement >> over >> > what I am currently running. Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated. >> > >> >> In your current system, no, 2xAGP won't be the limiting factor. >> -- >> - Will DeRivera >> - GPL Rank 103.93 >> - http://www.numic.net >> - http://www.luxt.com >> - Hi, I'm a sig virus. >> - Please add me to the end of your sig and help me take over the world. >> >> > >

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)

Here is a link on results from 3DMark2000 and 2001 benchmark, I've performed a few months ago on my old system at AGP x1 and x2 at differents screen depths. http://perso.wanadoo.fr/danoba/testagp.zip I've used BIOS settings to change AGP rate and checked each time that the good AGP rate was active with wcpuid. I rebooted between each test or after a screen depth change. Each test has run 2 times and I kept the best result in file. As you will see, There is no difference at all at 16bpp but just a few points in 32bpp. My old system : Abit BX-133 Celeron 566@952 (8.5x112) 256Mo PC133 Geforce 256 SE 32Mo SDR (110/143) AGP x1 x2 x4 capable. Win98SE - DX 8.0a-nVidia 21.83WHQL 3Dmark2000 rev1.1 other elements had not any effects on the results "TireSpin43" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: 9GZY7.19239$[email hidden]...

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> Hi there, I am currently running a 4x AGP GF2 card on a board that only > supports 2x AGP, am I correct in assuming that I would only get 1/2 the > possible frame rates in NR2002? Please Advise. > > > > -- > " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." > >

I believe you are correct, that's what I think the problem is as well. I thought I would ask to see if anybody had any idea's on what it might be. I have not tried different resolutions but I will now and advise of the frame rates. Thanks for the advice. -- " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." "Peter H" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cOiZ7.60052$[email hidden]... > CPU is bottleneck. AGP 1,2,or 4x does not make any difference in the real > world - it is much slower than having a decent amount of RAM on the video > card in the first place. > If AGP 4x was fast enough, we'd be seeing Geforce 2/3's with 4Mb ram. > Geforce 4's when released will have 64Mb/128Mb. > > Have you tried different resolutions.If frame rate stays nearly the same if > you lower the resolution then you are CPU limited. Try running 16bit not 32 > bit if haven't already. > > -- > Peter H > > GPL sucks...you in > > "TireSpin43" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:%tiZ7.268$[email hidden]... > > What would you expect to be causing the poor frame rate performance? Any > > Idea's? > > > > Thanks > > >

You are right as well, you work with what you got and right now it's time to get something new. I think I would see the difference in a P-4 1.9 GHZ system. That's where I will be heading from here. Thanks for your insight. -- " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." "Steve Garrotto" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > CPU a P2-400 is just not what it used to be. > > SLG > > "TireSpin43" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >What would you expect to be causing the poor frame rate performance? Any > >Idea's? > > > >Thanks > > > >-- > >" Give Me Two Right Sides Only." > >"Will DeRivera" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:q7bZ7.2286$[email hidden]... > >> > >> TireSpin43 <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >> news:vI4Z7.24334$[email hidden]... > >> > Thank you for the explanation. It's just that I am considering doing a > >MB > >> & > >> > Chip upgrade and I know that the board I have currently only has 2x AGP > >> > support. My card is capable of 4x and I wanted to know if I would see a > >> good > >> > deal of difference between them. I was trying out the new Nascar 2002 > >demo > >> > and I noticed I was only getting 25-30 FPS and was not sure if my video > >> card > >> > alone made the difference. The system I have is a P-2 400 MHZ with 512 > >Meg > >> > Ram, and a 32 Meg G-Force-2 4 x AGP video card. I am contemplating going > >> to > >> > a P-4 1.9 Gig 4X AGP system. I should expect to see a great improvement > >> over > >> > what I am currently running. Thanks for your insight, it's appreciated. > >> > > >> > >> In your current system, no, 2xAGP won't be the limiting factor. > >> -- > >> - Will DeRivera > >> - GPL Rank 103.93 > >> - http://www.numic.net > >> - http://www.luxt.com > >> - Hi, I'm a sig virus. > >> - Please add me to the end of your sig and help me take over the world. > >> > >> > > > > > > > (All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new > and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are > due to too many English classes/teachers) > >

Thanks for the link, I will look into this and see where I stand. As I had said in earlier posts, I will be purchasing a new system shortly and should see the difference with performance then. Thanks for your help. -- " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." "Alni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a15ira$blo$[email hidden]... > Here is a link on results from 3DMark2000 and 2001 benchmark, I've > performed a few months ago on my old system at AGP x1 and x2 at differents > screen depths. > http://perso.wanadoo.fr/danoba/testagp.zip > > I've used BIOS settings to change AGP rate and checked each time that the > good AGP rate was active with wcpuid. I rebooted between each test or after > a screen depth change. > Each test has run 2 times and I kept the best result in file. > As you will see, There is no difference at all at 16bpp but just a few > points in 32bpp. > > My old system : > Abit BX-133 > Celeron 566@952 (8.5x112) > 256Mo PC133 > Geforce 256 SE 32Mo SDR (110/143) AGP x1 x2 x4 capable. > Win98SE - DX 8.0a-nVidia 21.83WHQL > 3Dmark2000 rev1.1 > > other elements had not any effects on the results > > > "TireSpin43" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: > 9GZY7.19239$[email hidden]... > > Hi there, I am currently running a 4x AGP GF2 card on a board that only > > supports 2x AGP, am I correct in assuming that I would only get 1/2 the > > possible frame rates in NR2002? Please Advise. > > > > > > > > -- > > " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." > > > > > >

Well I changed my resolution and got better frame rates. I noticed that I was getting 50-65 FPS (640x480 16M) when I shut off some of the graphics like the stands and the higher detail objects. I guess it just boils down to not enough horsepower and to many bottlenecks to drive the graphics? I do have one further question though. This will probably sound stupid but, I guess your Ram speed can only run as fast as your motherboard bus speed? Example: If I have a board that has 133 mhz bus and I have Rambus ram (800 mhz) does the ram's performance drop down to the speed of the bus on the board? As you can tell I don't know a lot about these matters. Replies are appreciated. Thanks in advance. -- " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." "TireSpin43" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TvtZ7.576$[email hidden]... > Thanks for the link, I will look into this and see where I stand. As I had > said in earlier posts, I will be purchasing a new system shortly and should > see the difference with performance then. Thanks for your help. > > -- > " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." > "Alni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a15ira$blo$[email hidden]... > > Here is a link on results from 3DMark2000 and 2001 benchmark, I've > > performed a few months ago on my old system at AGP x1 and x2 at differents > > screen depths. > > http://perso.wanadoo.fr/danoba/testagp.zip > > > > I've used BIOS settings to change AGP rate and checked each time that the > > good AGP rate was active with wcpuid. I rebooted between each test or > after > > a screen depth change. > > Each test has run 2 times and I kept the best result in file. > > As you will see, There is no difference at all at 16bpp but just a few > > points in 32bpp. > > > > My old system : > > Abit BX-133 > > Celeron 566@952 (8.5x112) > > 256Mo PC133 > > Geforce 256 SE 32Mo SDR (110/143) AGP x1 x2 x4 capable. > > Win98SE - DX 8.0a-nVidia 21.83WHQL > > 3Dmark2000 rev1.1 > > > > other elements had not any effects on the results > > > > > > "TireSpin43" <[email hidden]> a �crit dans le message de news: > > 9GZY7.19239$[email hidden]... > > > Hi there, I am currently running a 4x AGP GF2 card on a board that only > > > supports 2x AGP, am I correct in assuming that I would only get 1/2 the > > > possible frame rates in NR2002? Please Advise. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > " Give Me Two Right Sides Only." > > > > > > > > > > > >

I tried to sort of help you out earlier in this thread but now....JEEZ you are having a laugh aren't you..? 133Mhz bus speed and 800Mhz ram...LOL You fooled me first time...well done. But now....either you are getting that new PC you mentioned or you are not. The most obvious thing to me is that you have a very inadequate CPU,everything else is fine. In your shoes i would replace mobo and cpu for a low price and settle for around 1.2 to 1.4 Ghz. Morgan Boof p.s What question is next....? Maybe one of the old ones..."I heard PC's run better the cooler they are,if i ran an extension cable to my fridge...blah blah blah.."

TireSpin43 <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TiJZ7.3507$[email hidden]... > Well I am glad I can entertain you but my questions are real. In lookingfor > an upgrade to replace my Motherboard and CPU I discovered that there are > various types of Ram also avavailbe. It appears that the newer boards can > accomidate various type's that are classified at various speeds. See > example's below. I have also posted the Ram types and prices as well. Sothe > question remains, does the type of ram you buy have any bearing on the bus > speed of the board? > > The intent of my questions are real and not fabricated. I appologize if I > lead you to believe differently. > Basically, just buy the type of RAM that the motherboard is made for. If you're going for a P4 solution, that would be RAMBUS (unless you go with the cheaper SDRAM solutions that are coming out and i think VIA makes a DDRRAM board for P4s as well). -- - Will DeRivera - GPL Rank 103.93 - http://www.numic.net - http://www.luxt.com - Hi, I'm a sig virus. - Please add me to the end of your sig and help me take over the world.