Modern F1Cars Easy To Drive?

Doesn't sound like Lauda found it very easy at all. http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines02/01/s8094.html David G Fisher

Looking at some of the Jaguar launch pictures of the new R3, the front suspension arms looks awfully much like an aerodynamic device. I thought FIA had banned such suspension pieces. Sounds like Niki should have turned a bunch more laps in a sim before jumping into the car. dave henrie "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NKl08.373118$[email hidden]...

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> Doesn't sound like Lauda found it very easy at all. > > http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines02/01/s8094.html > > David G Fisher > >

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > Doesn't sound like Lauda found it very easy at all. Yeah so? Trying to fish lure somebody here? Nice try... It all depends on how you drive the car. Back when there was "West" advertising on Rally cars and GP500 bikes, their respective drivers tried the F1, only to have the GP500 biker crashing the Formula One after a couple of corners. So bloody what? For Formula One pilots, you know the ones that rank 10,000laps per year, it's fairly easy and routine. It's for them, easy to drive. Case closed. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Uh, Lauda wasn't a Rally or motorcycle driver. If you want to say the modern cars are easy for the current F1 drivers, fine, but then you have to say the old F1 cars were easy for the old F1 drivers. Case closed. David G Fisher "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Fcm08.2106$[email hidden]...

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> >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Doesn't sound like Lauda found it very easy at all. > > Yeah so? Trying to fish lure somebody here? Nice try... > > > It all depends on how you drive the car. Back when there was "West" > advertising on Rally cars and GP500 bikes, their respective drivers tried > the F1, only to have the GP500 biker crashing the Formula One after a

couple > of corners. So bloody what? For Formula One pilots, you know the onesthat

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> rank 10,000laps per year, it's fairly easy and routine. > > It's for them, easy to drive. Case closed. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

> Doesn't sound like Lauda found it very easy at all. > They might be easier to drive (than older F1 cars). But they are probably harder to control.

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > If you want to say the modern cars are easy for the current F1 drivers, > fine, but then you have to say the old F1 cars were easy for the old F1 > drivers. Why would somebody denied that, and why do you think you are suddenly opening our eyes to something new? Like anybody who has incredible skills at something and does it on a daily basis, it becomes extremely easy for him and he always tries new challenges within that skill he has. In motorsports, it often resulted in death or injuries, especially in the past. The skill has just changed. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Why are you acting like a f**king twat? I've read 8,000,000 times on this newsgroup that modern F1 cars are EASY to drive, and the older ones are supposedly so much harder. The older drivers are supposedly so much better. You have too. Everyone who reads this thread knows why it's of some relevance. Stop playing dumb. You're doing it too well. David G Fisher "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2rn08.2364$[email hidden]...

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> >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > If you want to say the modern cars are easy for the current F1 drivers, > > fine, but then you have to say the old F1 cars were easy for the old F1 > > drivers. > > > Why would somebody denied that, and why do you think you are suddenly > opening our eyes to something new? > > > Like anybody who has incredible skills at something and does it on a daily > basis, it becomes extremely easy for him and he always tries new

challenges

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> within that skill he has. In motorsports, it often resulted in death or > injuries, especially in the past. > > The skill has just changed. > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

He said that it was easy to drive, but it was hard at the limit, which is one of the things exhibited in the EA F1 200x series... -Stuart Becktell "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NKl08.373118$[email hidden]...

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> Doesn't sound like Lauda found it very easy at all. > > http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines02/01/s8094.html > > David G Fisher > >

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > Why are you acting like a f**king twat? I've read 8,000,000 times on this > newsgroup that modern F1 cars are EASY to drive, and the older ones are > supposedly so much harder. The older drivers are supposedly so muchbetter. > You have too. Everyone who reads this thread knows why it's of some > relevance. Really? I don't think so. You're just having illusions. You're just trying to find some bait. We couldn't give a shite one way or another of whatever you're trying to prove. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"David G Fisher" wrote... > Doesn't sound like Lauda found it very easy > at all. Have to admit I'm disappointed by Nikki's performance. For a driver of his calibre he didn't do himself justice there. Pedro is certainly no slouch, but 15 seconds is pityfull. Would be interesting to know what Nikki thought of the car he expects his drivers to be competitive in. As for the general gist of your point, I'm sure current cars put a greater strain on the driver, but they are undeniably easier to operate and I don't see how traction and launch control can be thought of as anything but driver aids. I also hold modern cars close the gap between the truly gifted and the merely very good in the same way FD and FG cars do in GPL. That said, I'm sure it hasn't got any easier to operate at the very limit, except the very limit (and I must have said this multiple times already as well) is not as clearly visible as it used to be. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

"Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]...

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> "David G Fisher" wrote... > > Doesn't sound like Lauda found it very easy > > at all. > > Have to admit I'm disappointed by Nikki's performance. For a driver of his > calibre he didn't do himself justice there. Pedro is certainly no slouch, > but 15 seconds is pityfull. Would be interesting to know what Nikki thought > of the car he expects his drivers to be competitive in. >

Lauda: "Vell, it iz not GPL!"

"Jens H. Kruuse" wrote... > <snip> > Lauda: "Vell, it iz not GPL!" LOL... ;-) Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

I didn't know you spoke for everyone. Some people have already replied and apparently do think the article was interesting. At the very least it gives us another little bit of info which we can use to judge our F1 sims. And yes, there have been many, many, many opinions and debates about how easy/hard the modern F1 cars are to drive in comparison to the older F1 cars. So you're wrong....again. David G Fisher "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dqp08.6002$[email hidden]... > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Why are you acting like a f**king twat? I've read 8,000,000 times onthis

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> > newsgroup that modern F1 cars are EASY to drive, and the older ones are > > supposedly so much harder. The older drivers are supposedly so much > better. > > You have too. Everyone who reads this thread knows why it's of some > > relevance. > > > Really? I don't think so. You're just having illusions. > > > You're just trying to find some bait. We couldn't give a shite one way or > another of whatever you're trying to prove. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

Ladies, Ladies, calm down... You have made a very interesting point and neither of you have anything intelligent to say about it. Chris "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:QHr08.374983$[email hidden]... > I didn't know you spoke for everyone. > > Some people have already replied and apparently do think the article was > interesting. > > At the very least it gives us another little bit of info which we can useto

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> judge our F1 sims. > > And yes, there have been many, many, many opinions and debates about how > easy/hard the modern F1 cars are to drive in comparison to the older F1 > cars. > > So you're wrong....again. > > David G Fisher > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:dqp08.6002$[email hidden]... > > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > Why are you acting like a f**king twat? I've read 8,000,000 times on > this > > > newsgroup that modern F1 cars are EASY to drive, and the older ones

are

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> > > supposedly so much harder. The older drivers are supposedly so much > > better. > > > You have too. Everyone who reads this thread knows why it's of some > > > relevance. > > > > > > Really? I don't think so. You're just having illusions. > > > > > > You're just trying to find some bait. We couldn't give a shite one way

or

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> > another of whatever you're trying to prove. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > >

Maybe somebody out there could supply a '67 Lotus and an '01 Williams and let Mr. Menard and Mr. Fisher find out for themselves if either is easy to drive. I bet neither could get either car moving forward without spinning it. I know I couldn't, but I'd sure like to give it a try too. BH Chris <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a1tjml$gl4$[email hidden]...

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> Ladies, Ladies, calm down... > > You have made a very interesting point and neither of you have anything > intelligent to say about it. > > Chris > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:QHr08.374983$[email hidden]... > > I didn't know you spoke for everyone. > > > > Some people have already replied and apparently do think the article was > > interesting. > > > > At the very least it gives us another little bit of info which we can

use

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> to > > judge our F1 sims. > > > > And yes, there have been many, many, many opinions and debates about how > > easy/hard the modern F1 cars are to drive in comparison to the older F1 > > cars. > > > > So you're wrong....again. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:dqp08.6002$[email hidden]... > > > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > > > Why are you acting like a f**king twat? I've read 8,000,000 times on > > this > > > > newsgroup that modern F1 cars are EASY to drive, and the older ones > are > > > > supposedly so much harder. The older drivers are supposedly so much > > > better. > > > > You have too. Everyone who reads this thread knows why it's of some > > > > relevance. > > > > > > > > > Really? I don't think so. You're just having illusions. > > > > > > > > > You're just trying to find some bait. We couldn't give a shite one

way

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> or > > > another of whatever you're trying to prove. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > > > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > > > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > > > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

some thoughts on all this: Maybe it'd be helpful to think in terms of a "window" or "space" separating driving *close* to optimum performance and actually *at* it. My sense (mine only) is that the greater the slip angles, drift capabilities, difference between straight-line speeds and cornering speeds, etc., the easier it will be for an "average" capable racing driver to get closer to the latter. That "space" will be larger, easier to inhabit, as the car gives more sustained (and answerable) signals that it is on the verge of breaking loose, etc. So a question arises: what developments have altered that space? In this scenario, one might see the "easyness" factor as something that has been oscillating, ever since the arrival of wings, radial tires (which gave far less signal than old bias-ply), carbon-fiber brakes, complicated aerodynamics, mega-horsepower, paddle-shifting, (the arrival and dissipation of various tire wars), active-suspension, throttle control, grooved tyres, etc. Why should there be one linear graph over time of "easiness-to-drive"? Wouldn't it be more likely that, if indeed graphed (by what variables?), it would more likely be a rather jagged line? We need to step away from "heros of the past" vs "heroes of the present." I think some of this reflects a constant narrative in almost any look backwards: "them were gods in those days." And of course, its equally unreflective reply about the present. jlohman <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Cvm08.28567$[email hidden]...

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> > Doesn't sound like Lauda found it very easy at all. > > > > > They might be easier to drive (than older F1 cars). But they are probably > harder to control. > > >

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > Some people have already replied and apparently do think the article was > interesting. Yeah and what makes you think I did not? > And yes, there have been many, many, many opinions and debates about how > easy/hard the modern F1 cars are to drive in comparison to the older F1 > cars. And they are exactly what they are, opinions and debates. You tried to pass originally this thread as "Voila, you see you are all wrong and I'm always right". And I sure gave you an opinion that for anybody who does a routine job and excels at it (whatever it's past or previous F1 racecar drivers), it's sure easy for them. But the skill has changed. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Fcm08.2106$[email hidden]... > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Doesn't sound like Lauda found it very easy at all. > > Yeah so? Trying to fish lure somebody here? Nice try... Eh, I think it was posted with a smile. Niki hasn't exactly been making himself a lot of admirers in the last year or two with all his outspoken comments which sometimes appear to be total rubbish but he just wants his spoke in as a "former 3 time world champ" and thus deserves all our respect. The fact that he took on the challenge, said to me and I'm sure a lot of others that he wanted to give both his drivers a swift kick in the behind by "easily" pushing their own lap times. Its with a little chuckle that we see he hasn't faired so well. Yeah, Niki was a great driver and all but you have to think that this little outing might humble him a little. I don't think he knew what he was getting into and it seemed like he genuinely believed he might push both team members.

ymenard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9kB08.3853$[email hidden]... > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Some people have already replied and apparently do think the article was > > interesting. > > Yeah and what makes you think I did not? I don't think he ever suggested otherwise. Yet if you did... why do you see it as bait? ymenard. .. I don't want to take sides here or anything but it seems liek your fighting a loosing battle. David is a regular on these boards and far from a troll. It was relevant to the group and an interesting detail from the great amout of codswallop that we hear about modern F1 cars being too easy to driver. Something we do hear a lot which translates into how real our sims are.

"Rodney" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:BkF08.1014$[email hidden]... ><Snip!> > > ymenard. .. I don't want to take sides here or anything but it seems liek > your fighting a loosing battle. David is a regular on these boards and far > from a troll.<Snip!>� Rodney, you *don't* want to enter into this vendetta. Mr. Fisher and Mr. Menard have a history of sniping. I have been unable to find their earliest battles on Google, but as far as I know, they go way back. Personally, I have agreed and disagreed with each of them in the past and they are both basically "good guys" with strongly voiced opinions. Every newsgroup has at least one pair of duelists. Such is Usenet. Cheers, Jens

> Rodney, you *don't* want to enter into this vendetta. Mr. Fisher andMr. Menard > have a history of sniping. I have been unable to find their earliestbattles on > Google, but as far as I know, they go way back. Sniping? I am sure a few rocket launchers have been seen at times. I am sure they both enjoy it. I really miss John Wallace from this group. Very erudite but so cutting in his remarks. Cheers Tony

I found this interesting... Lauda found the Jaguar R2's handling to be more progressive than the F1 cars he was used to. "Then, you had very high grip up to a certain point beyond which it would just let go!" -- Cheers, Robin ................... `o^=o- http://www.oppositelock.freeserve.co.uk N�rburgring and Grand Prix Legends

>I have been unable to find their earliest battles on > Google, but as far as I know, they go way back. I bet that the earliest battle between these gentlemen is Googles secret milestone. Once that event has been indexed in their usenet archive they will stop, nothing more to do ;) Mikkel PS: and yes I tend to agree and disagree with both on a regular basis ;)