GPL performance: Cpu or vid card card dependent

There used to be a website which showed various users benchmarks for the back of a monaco grid with _ALL_ options turned on and 19 AI. Unfortunately the site is no longer up (I think Dirk Wagner ran it), but for all us contemplating upgrades we need to know which factor is most crucial to gpl performance. For me im deciding between upgrading an old 440BX system to accept a Tualatin cpu (yes there is a slocket now that does that-Powerleap Ip3/T) or getting an AMD mobo and Duron. The major difference between the intel or AMD option seems to be memory bandwidth, with the AMD having almost twice as much according to SisSoft Sandra benchmark, however most games dont seem too affected by this bandwidth difference (Q3a). Is it the same situation with GPL? Furthermore, is GPL equally dependent on Vid card and CPU performance, or do u get more value upgrading your CPU instead of the vid card- i seem to recall the consensus as being it was more CPU dependent. Any evidence or user experiences to support this? There is also talk of future games placing more importance on this memory bandwidth, so for example, if WSC or similar were to come out in 9 months would it favour the AMD based system with almost double the memory bandwidth?

> For me im deciding between upgrading an old 440BX system to accept a > Tualatin cpu (yes there is a slocket now that does that-Powerleap Ip3/T)or > getting an AMD mobo and Duron. > > The major difference between the intel or AMD option seems to be memory > bandwidth, with the AMD having almost twice as much according to SisSoft > Sandra benchmark, however most games dont seem too affected by this > bandwidth difference (Q3a). Is it the same situation with GPL? The biggest difference between a PIII (tualatin core), and an Athlon is not the memory bandwidth but the floating point unit. Although the Athlon does have greater memory bandwith as well, but the biggest difference you'll see is the massive floating point unit of the Athlon. The Athlon is the king of GPL. No Intel chip can compete with the Athlon here. Not even the fastest P4. The most important thing in GPL is the floating point unit. GPL is a big time number crunching sim. It's not real flashy, so even run of the mill video cards have no problem with GPL. Now, with all that being said, any 1 gig or better chip should have no problem with GPL. It just doesn't require a state of the art 2 gig system to get a decent frame rate out of GPL. Nascar 4 on the other hand is another story (from what I hear). It's any one's guess as to which CPU would be better for WSC. If they do all the Intel optimizations (like Quake 3), then the P4 will be faster, if not, the Athlon will rule here as well.

"Ashley Miskelly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WMJ38.4580$[email hidden]... > > For me im deciding between upgrading an old 440BX system to accept a > Tualatin cpu (yes there is a slocket now that does that-Powerleap Ip3/T)or > getting an AMD mobo and Duron. IMO, it's not a hard choice -at all-. The Tualatin upgrade is in the $180 range - for $187.43, I could get a Shuttle AK11, Athlon 1.33, and a HS/Fan shipped to my door from www.newegg.com. Only thing is chances are you'll need a new powersupply, one that can put out 180w or more on the +5/3.3v rails combined. A Duron gig would be about $50 -less- than that, but it's out of stock at the moment, so I couldn't even add it to my cart just to get a quote. =P > The major difference between the intel or AMD option seems to be memory > bandwidth, with the AMD having almost twice as much according to SisSoft > Sandra benchmark, however most games dont seem too affected by this > bandwidth difference (Q3a). Is it the same situation with GPL? I doubt GPL is affected by it much; but LOTS of other things are. Milhouse

On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:00:36 GMT, "jlohman" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >> For me im deciding between upgrading an old 440BX system to accept a >> Tualatin cpu (yes there is a slocket now that does that-Powerleap Ip3/T) >or >> getting an AMD mobo and Duron. >> >> The major difference between the intel or AMD option seems to be memory >> bandwidth, with the AMD having almost twice as much according to SisSoft >> Sandra benchmark, however most games dont seem too affected by this >> bandwidth difference (Q3a). Is it the same situation with GPL? > >The biggest difference between a PIII (tualatin core), and an Athlon is not >the memory bandwidth but the floating point unit. Although the Athlon does >have greater memory bandwith as well, but the biggest difference you'll see >is the massive floating point unit of the Athlon. The Athlon is the king of >GPL. No Intel chip can compete with the Athlon here. Not even the fastest >P4. >The most important thing in GPL is the floating point unit. GPL is a big >time number crunching sim. It's not real flashy, so even run of the mill >video cards have no problem with GPL. >Now, with all that being said, any 1 gig or better chip should have no >problem with GPL. It just doesn't require a state of the art 2 gig system to >get a decent frame rate out of GPL. Nascar 4 on the other hand is another >story (from what I hear). It's any one's guess as to which CPU would be >better for WSC. If they do all the Intel optimizations (like Quake 3), then >the P4 will be faster, if not, the Athlon will rule here as well. >

Agree with all you are saying here, pretty much on the money. One other thing worth mentioning here is that GPL also takes full advantage of a large L2 cache. Thus, the Athlon XPs and Tbirds do even better with GPL than the Durons. That said, price is a biggie here, and dollar for dollar you aint gonna beat the duron. Celerons really suck for GPL (when compared with the Duron) and P3s and P4s are alright, but not worth it in my view, the Athlon is a lot faster for your dollar. Video cards - a GF2 pro/ultra or Radeon 7500 minimum in my view. GF2 MX is OK, but not worth it if you are upgrading from something slower. Rafe Mc

CPU, video only comes into play when the CPU is strong enough. SLG "Ashley Miskelly" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>There used to be a website which showed various users benchmarks for the >back of a monaco grid with _ALL_ options turned on and 19 AI. Unfortunately >the site is no longer up (I think Dirk Wagner ran it), but for all us >contemplating upgrades we need to know which factor is most crucial to gpl >performance. > >For me im deciding between upgrading an old 440BX system to accept a >Tualatin cpu (yes there is a slocket now that does that-Powerleap Ip3/T) or >getting an AMD mobo and Duron. > >The major difference between the intel or AMD option seems to be memory >bandwidth, with the AMD having almost twice as much according to SisSoft >Sandra benchmark, however most games dont seem too affected by this >bandwidth difference (Q3a). Is it the same situation with GPL? > >Furthermore, is GPL equally dependent on Vid card and CPU performance, or do >u get more value upgrading your CPU instead of the vid card- i seem to >recall the consensus as being it was more CPU dependent. Any evidence or >user experiences to support this? > >There is also talk of future games placing more importance on this memory >bandwidth, so for example, if WSC or similar were to come out in 9 months >would it favour the AMD based system with almost double the memory >bandwidth? > >

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)

Initially ran GPL on a cel400 on a 440bx board with a v3 2000. Tried overclocking the V3 but it made no difference to gpl so I left it at the default speed. Last year I installed a cel950 in the same system and the improvement in gpl was dramatic, could bump the resolution a notch or two and add a few more graphic options. With the new cpu I overclocked the V3 again to the speed of the 3000 and this time there was some improvement, a few more fps, but nothing like the improvement the new cpu gave. Just my experience. Ken Ashley Miskelly wrote:

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> There used to be a website which showed various users benchmarks for the > back of a monaco grid with _ALL_ options turned on and 19 AI. Unfortunately > the site is no longer up (I think Dirk Wagner ran it), but for all us > contemplating upgrades we need to know which factor is most crucial to gpl > performance. > > For me im deciding between upgrading an old 440BX system to accept a > Tualatin cpu (yes there is a slocket now that does that-Powerleap Ip3/T) or > getting an AMD mobo and Duron. > > The major difference between the intel or AMD option seems to be memory > bandwidth, with the AMD having almost twice as much according to SisSoft > Sandra benchmark, however most games dont seem too affected by this > bandwidth difference (Q3a). Is it the same situation with GPL? > > Furthermore, is GPL equally dependent on Vid card and CPU performance, or do > u get more value upgrading your CPU instead of the vid card- i seem to > recall the consensus as being it was more CPU dependent. Any evidence or > user experiences to support this? > > There is also talk of future games placing more importance on this memory > bandwidth, so for example, if WSC or similar were to come out in 9 months > would it favour the AMD based system with almost double the memory > bandwidth?

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]... <Snip!> > > Video cards - a GF2 pro/ultra or Radeon 7500 minimum in my view. GF2 > MX is OK, but not worth it if you are upgrading from something slower. > Another budget card that does very well is the Kyro II (eg. Hercules Prophet 4500). The Kyro chip is very CPU dependent, so you shouldn't match it up with an old cpu. /Jens

Personally, I can't recommend this card much; I've got it in a Athlon 1.4 box I'm building and I'm not terribly satisfied with it (the drivers are rather immature it seems). However, the last ones I installed were much better than the first ones, and my guess is the new ones are better still - I don't use it much as it's not my own box. Milhouse "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:59X38.5192$[email hidden]...

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> "Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse > news:[email hidden]... > <Snip!> > > > > Video cards - a GF2 pro/ultra or Radeon 7500 minimum in my view. GF2 > > MX is OK, but not worth it if you are upgrading from something slower. > > > > Another budget card that does very well is the Kyro II (eg. Hercules

Prophet > 4500). The Kyro chip is very CPU dependent, so you shouldn't match it upwith an > old cpu. > > /Jens > >

On Fri, 25 Jan 2002 01:19:14 GMT, "Milhouse" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Personally, I can't recommend this card much; I've got it in a Athlon 1.4 >box I'm building and I'm not terribly satisfied with it (the drivers are >rather immature it seems). However, the last ones I installed were much >better than the first ones, and my guess is the new ones are better still - >I don't use it much as it's not my own box. > >Milhouse

Actually, the latest tests on Anandtech.com show the Kyro 2 to beat even a GF2 Pro and GF2 ti. Albeit matched with an Athlon 2000 :) It seems to really like the CPU horsepower. Not bad for a budget video card. Rafe Mc

In article <WMJ38.4580$[email hidden]>, "Ashley Miskelly" <[email hidden]> writes: >There used to be a website which showed various users benchmarks for the >back of a monaco grid with _ALL_ options turned on and 19 AI. Unfortunately >the site is no longer up (I think Dirk Wagner ran it), but for all us >contemplating upgrades we need to know which factor is most crucial to gpl >performance. Would that be a good idea to have benchmarks for ALL the popular sims? Would the info be useful for say, F1-2001 or N4? I could probably compile results, if there's an interest. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Just an update. Installed a GF2 Ultra in the system below and noticed a big improvement over the V3. On tracks were the resolution would have to be cut back and a lot of graphic options turned off to keep from dropping below 30, it now gives 36 fps all the time with everything, except for antialiasing, maxed out. I'd still suggest upgrading the cpu to a decent level (1G+) and then get the best graphics card with whatever was left over. Ken Ken MacKay wrote:

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> Initially ran GPL on a cel400 on a 440bx board with a v3 2000. Tried > overclocking the V3 but it made no difference to gpl so I left it at the default > speed. Last year I installed a cel950 in the same system and the improvement in > gpl was dramatic, could bump the resolution a notch or two and add a few more > graphic options. With the new cpu I overclocked the V3 again to the speed of > the 3000 and this time there was some improvement, a few more fps, but nothing > like the improvement the new cpu gave. > > Just my experience. > Ken > > Ashley Miskelly wrote: > > > There used to be a website which showed various users benchmarks for the > > back of a monaco grid with _ALL_ options turned on and 19 AI. Unfortunately > > the site is no longer up (I think Dirk Wagner ran it), but for all us > > contemplating upgrades we need to know which factor is most crucial to gpl > > performance. > > > > For me im deciding between upgrading an old 440BX system to accept a > > Tualatin cpu (yes there is a slocket now that does that-Powerleap Ip3/T) or > > getting an AMD mobo and Duron. > > > > The major difference between the intel or AMD option seems to be memory > > bandwidth, with the AMD having almost twice as much according to SisSoft > > Sandra benchmark, however most games dont seem too affected by this > > bandwidth difference (Q3a). Is it the same situation with GPL? > > > > Furthermore, is GPL equally dependent on Vid card and CPU performance, or do > > u get more value upgrading your CPU instead of the vid card- i seem to > > recall the consensus as being it was more CPU dependent. Any evidence or > > user experiences to support this? > > > > There is also talk of future games placing more importance on this memory > > bandwidth, so for example, if WSC or similar were to come out in 9 months > > would it favour the AMD based system with almost double the memory > > bandwidth?