f12001 vs GPL

Im interested in opinions as to which is the most realistic sim. Which is the superior physics engine .. and why ? (I race GPL and love it .. havent tried f12001 yet ..... )

Tough call. I'm inclined to give F12001 the nod but the reality is that in both sims the cars handle as I would expect them to in real life. F12001 does win in the physics department as far as motion is concerned mainly because of the unrestricted frame rate (GPL is limited to 36fps) It would also seem that most issues that people had with F12001 have been sorted out either by the patch, addons or other fixes. The only real shortcoming in comparison with GPL is the replay facility which is barely adequate. As others have stated, with a few minor improvements (mainly track accuracy), F12002 could be really something. -- Damien Smith [email hidden] ICQ: 77028579 F1 2001 rank: +38.928

"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> Tough call. I'm inclined to give F12001 the nod but the reality is that in > both sims the cars handle as I would expect them to in real life. F12001 > does win in the physics department as far as motion is concerned mainly > because of the unrestricted frame rate (GPL is limited to 36fps) It would > also seem that most issues that people had with F12001 have been sorted out > either by the patch, addons or other fixes. The only real shortcoming in > comparison with GPL is the replay facility which is barely adequate. As > others have stated, with a few minor improvements (mainly track accuracy), > F12002 could be really something.

Issues with F1 2001 not yet fixed my patch or addon: - No proper working dual axis support for the MSFF - Ridiculous steering setup - Setup manager that forces a lot of saving and typing when all i want to do is to do a small adjustment. Apart from that and the multiplayer debacle, it's a very fine sim. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

> Issues with F1 2001 not yet fixed my patch or addon: > > - No proper working dual axis support for the MSFF Odd, my MSFF works just fine (the Gameport version) All the best, Ash http://www.siroccoracing.com

Ashley McConnell <[email hidden]> writes: > > Issues with F1 2001 not yet fixed my patch or addon: > > > > - No proper working dual axis support for the MSFF > > > Odd, my MSFF works just fine (the Gameport version) With my MSFF (gameport) is dual axis it ignores the first 50% of the pedal travel. It is possible to use dxtweak to fix this, but dxtweak doesn't work with win2000 or winXP, and the msff doesn't work in single axis for the same os'es. So I have to use either win98 or winME for F1 2001 (and gpl since I have soundcard issues with gpl and xp), and since my system had over 512 mb ddr ram it's kind of a waste to use the old windows core. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Olav K. Malmin wrote:

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> Ashley McConnell <[email hidden]> writes: > > >>>Issues with F1 2001 not yet fixed my patch or addon: >>> >>>- No proper working dual axis support for the MSFF >>> >> >>Odd, my MSFF works just fine (the Gameport version) >> > > With my MSFF (gameport) is dual axis it ignores the first 50% of the pedal > travel. It is possible to use dxtweak to fix this, but dxtweak doesn't > work with win2000 or winXP, and the msff doesn't work in single axis > for the same os'es. So I have to use either win98 or winME for F1 > 2001 (and gpl since I have soundcard issues with gpl and xp), and > since my system had over 512 mb ddr ram it's kind of a waste to use > the old windows core. > >

Yeah, I have heard of this problem, but I seem to have 100% variance on the accelerator, its very odd. Ash

On Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:06:57 +1000, "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >The only real shortcoming in >comparison with GPL is the replay facility which is barely adequate. I would say it even sucks that I have to await long saves after a race, JUST because I want a replay now & then while driving. I turned it off, but what a shame. :( Other than that, F1-2001 drives very nicely; I have more control than with previous F1 sims (not that I thoroughly play those anymore). Ruud van Gaal Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

On 31 Jan 2002 12:27:14 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. Malmin) wrote:

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>Ashley McConnell <[email hidden]> writes: > >> > Issues with F1 2001 not yet fixed my patch or addon: >> > >> > - No proper working dual axis support for the MSFF >> >> >> Odd, my MSFF works just fine (the Gameport version) > >With my MSFF (gameport) is dual axis it ignores the first 50% of the pedal >travel.

I have this as well, in fact the whole pedal set is a bit shabby. Perhaps F12K1 installed something? Hope not. Ruud van Gaal Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

[email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) writes:

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> On 31 Jan 2002 12:27:14 +0100, [email hidden] (Olav K. > Malmin) wrote: > > >Ashley McConnell <[email hidden]> writes: > > > >> > Issues with F1 2001 not yet fixed my patch or addon: > >> > > >> > - No proper working dual axis support for the MSFF > >> > >> > >> Odd, my MSFF works just fine (the Gameport version) > > > >With my MSFF (gameport) is dual axis it ignores the first 50% of the pedal > >travel. > > I have this as well, in fact the whole pedal set is a bit shabby. > Perhaps F12K1 installed something? Hope not.

I don't have that problem with other sims run on the same system. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

My logitech won't work with split axis in Win2000, but in ME it works just fine. I'm wondering if there something about the OS that gives F12001 fits as much or more than the wheel type. MadDAWG

I think it is interesting that Papy says that they changed their tire model for NR2002, and that the new tire model is both more realistic and easier to drive. Now N4's physics engine was supposedly an adaptation of GPL's. Makes me wonder how much of the difficulty in driving GPL is realistic and how much is due to the tire model. While I have never driven any sort of open wheeled car, I have always felt that a small, light car like those in GPL could not possibly have been as squirrelly in real life as they are in the sim. In the sim the darn things drive like a truck with worn out suspension bushings, I don't believe a light car mounted on any sort of decent racing suspension would drive like that. So while F12001's physics model is not without issues either, I personally would vote for F12001 having the more realistic model. It may not be possible to match actual track telemetry with F12001, but at least the darn things feel like what I would imagine a real race car feels like. Plus people who are creating mods with F12001 have come up with some very realistic feeling cars, so I think that whatever shortcomings F12001 may have are probably in the track and vehicle files, rather than in the physics model itself. "Mike Farrar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Im interested in opinions as to which is the most realistic sim. > Which is the superior physics engine .. and why ? > > > (I race GPL and love it .. havent tried f12001 yet ..... ) > >

I just re-installed F1 2001 last night -- it's pretty good, but I don't think it's as 'fun' as GPL. Tim "Mike Farrar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Im interested in opinions as to which is the most realistic sim. > Which is the superior physics engine .. and why ? > > > (I race GPL and love it .. havent tried f12001 yet ..... ) > >

lmfao. The F12001 physics engine is very innacurate - as a result the F1 cars have been given VERY soft springs (they BOUNCE their way around Priory Corner ffs!) Doug "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a3b8fi$174vmj$[email hidden]... > Tough call. I'm inclined to give F12001 the nod but the reality is thatin > both sims the cars handle as I would expect them to in real life. F12001 > does win in the physics department as far as motion is concerned mainly > because of the unrestricted frame rate (GPL is limited to 36fps) It would > also seem that most issues that people had with F12001 have been sortedout

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> either by the patch, addons or other fixes. The only real shortcoming in > comparison with GPL is the replay facility which is barely adequate. As > others have stated, with a few minor improvements (mainly track accuracy), > F12002 could be really something. > > -- > Damien Smith > [email hidden] > ICQ: 77028579 > F1 2001 rank: +38.928 > >

> >With my MSFF (gameport) is dual axis it ignores the first 50% of thepedal > >travel. > > I have this as well, in fact the whole pedal set is a bit shabby. > Perhaps F12K1 installed something? Hope not. I have the same problem, running CH non-pro pedals. -Phasor

For me its more fun then GPL. It runs smoother graphics are better etc etc, but hey it a new sim, GPL is a little long in the tooth. "Tim Wheatley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ghf68.2667$[email hidden]... > I just re-installed F1 2001 last night -- it's pretty good, but I don't > think it's as 'fun' as GPL. > > Tim >

A short, marginally OT tire model refresher: Papy upgraded GPL's tire model with the original 1.1 patch, though they originally denied having made any physics changes. The consensus around here was that the changes made GPL easier and there was a briefly a bit of a huff about GPL being "dumbed down". But that soon died away in the wake of the other improvements (& that nasty 1.1 bug). Try GPL version 1.0 again for a lark and you'll quickly feel the change. Dave Kaemmer was later quoted (in an N4-related interview) as saying something along the line that he couldn't bring himself to drive GPL anymore due to the deficiencies in the tire model. And now the cycle repeats itself with N2002. Anyone remember the way-back quote from the Wests during early WSC development that the more accuracy they packed into the physics modeling, the EASIER it became to drive? Think it was in a show interview, including Hyperstimulators' John Crooke. Let's hope that's so... Anyway, I think we all more or less know that '67 GP cars didn't handle quite like the GPL versions. Doesn't stop it from being a milestone achievement, though, and a wonderful piece of work even today. I don't race it as much lately, but it never fails to deliver a big grin when I do fire it up. Thanks again, Papy! (and everyone who's made add-ons) SB "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a3bq2i$179pfi$[email hidden]...

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> I think it is interesting that Papy says that they changed their tire > model for NR2002, and that the new tire model is both more realistic and > easier to drive. Now N4's physics engine was supposedly an adaptation > of GPL's. Makes me wonder how much of the difficulty in driving GPL is > realistic and how much is due to the tire model. While I have never > driven any sort of open wheeled car, I have always felt that a small, > light car like those in GPL could not possibly have been as squirrelly > in real life as they are in the sim. In the sim the darn things drive > like a truck with worn out suspension bushings, I don't believe a light > car mounted on any sort of decent racing suspension would drive like > that. So while F12001's physics model is not without issues either, I > personally would vote for F12001 having the more realistic model. It > may not be possible to match actual track telemetry with F12001, but at > least the darn things feel like what I would imagine a real race car > feels like. Plus people who are creating mods with F12001 have come up > with some very realistic feeling cars, so I think that whatever > shortcomings F12001 may have are probably in the track and vehicle > files, rather than in the physics model itself.

>>With my MSFF (gameport) is dual axis it ignores the first >>50% of the pedal travel. You can fix this problem with DXTweak.exe by manually adjusting the total range of the pots to match the range that is actually used. I made it work in F1-2000. -Dirt-

I think only the real blinkered GPL bigots truly believe 67 F1 cars were as hard to drive as GPL portrays them. Sure, most of us aren't as talented as the F1 drivers of the era and sure, the missing physical feedback (through the bum) is missing. However, neither of those truly account for all of the difficulty in GPL, especially in low speed corners. The model isn't perfect, that's a given. It's a simulation, which by definition means it doesn't get everything exactly right. However, no other sim I've driven (including F1 2001) gives me the feeling of driving a race car like GPL does. As many have said, that's partly because modern racing cars (excluding maybe Nascar) have so much less suspension travel (higher frequency physics), so the car feel doesn't translate as well to the screen. That's irrelevant though - it's all about the final result. GPL feels the most "right" of any sim I've driven (IMO). And of course it blows most other sims away with its online play (N4 and Heat being the closest competitors). Get a good group of guys together (i.e. a league) and race an hour and a half with them, then tell me that ain't real racing. Once you get good enough at GPL *the game* to overcome the limitations of the model, so you can concentrate on the *racing* you'll understand where the fanatical loyalty comes from. You may not join us but you'll at least understand us... "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Nvh68.18567$[email hidden]... > A short, marginally OT tire model refresher: > > Papy upgraded GPL's tire model with the original 1.1 patch, though theyoriginally denied having made any physics changes. The > consensus around here was that the changes made GPL easier and there was abriefly a bit of a huff about GPL being "dumbed down". > But that soon died away in the wake of the other improvements (& thatnasty 1.1 bug). Try GPL version 1.0 again for a lark and > you'll quickly feel the change. Dave Kaemmer was later quoted (in anN4-related interview) as saying something along the line that > he couldn't bring himself to drive GPL anymore due to the deficiencies inthe tire model. And now the cycle repeats itself with > N2002. > > Anyone remember the way-back quote from the Wests during early WSCdevelopment that the more accuracy they packed into the physics > modeling, the EASIER it became to drive? Think it was in a showinterview, including Hyperstimulators' John Crooke. Let's hope > that's so... > > Anyway, I think we all more or less know that '67 GP cars didn't handlequite like the GPL versions. Doesn't stop it from being a > milestone achievement, though, and a wonderful piece of work even today.I don't race it as much lately, but it never fails to

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> deliver a big grin when I do fire it up. > > Thanks again, Papy! (and everyone who's made add-ons) > > SB > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:a3bq2i$179pfi$[email hidden]...

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> > I think it is interesting that Papy says that they changed their tire > > model for NR2002, and that the new tire model is both more realistic and > > easier to drive. Now N4's physics engine was supposedly an adaptation > > of GPL's. Makes me wonder how much of the difficulty in driving GPL is > > realistic and how much is due to the tire model. While I have never > > driven any sort of open wheeled car, I have always felt that a small, > > light car like those in GPL could not possibly have been as squirrelly > > in real life as they are in the sim. In the sim the darn things drive > > like a truck with worn out suspension bushings, I don't believe a light > > car mounted on any sort of decent racing suspension would drive like > > that. So while F12001's physics model is not without issues either, I > > personally would vote for F12001 having the more realistic model. It > > may not be possible to match actual track telemetry with F12001, but at > > least the darn things feel like what I would imagine a real race car > > feels like. Plus people who are creating mods with F12001 have come up > > with some very realistic feeling cars, so I think that whatever > > shortcomings F12001 may have are probably in the track and vehicle > > files, rather than in the physics model itself. > >

Speaking of F1 2001 mods, the FIA GT mod is great, I spent about an hour just in practice #1 with the AI yesterday while driving the Viper at Silverstone. Just imagine, what if you can have FIA GT mod with N4 quality multiplayer, N4/GPL quality replay & suspension/engine adjustments, with GPL addon quality tracks. That would really be sweet. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Plus people who are creating mods with F12001 have come up >with some very realistic feeling cars, so I think that whatever >shortcomings F12001 may have are probably in the track and vehicle >files, rather than in the physics model itself.

F12001 does everything better than GPL except multiplayer and replay. The FIA is the cause of the limited multiplayer. David G Fisher "Mike Farrar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Im interested in opinions as to which is the most realistic sim. > Which is the superior physics engine .. and why ? > > > (I race GPL and love it .. havent tried f12001 yet ..... ) > >

I still haven't seen any concrete proof of that: press release, copy of a contract, etc. All I've seen is your blanket statements and a few posts along the lines of "a friend of a friend heard from somebody who works with somebody else who heard that the FIA might have said..." URL, anybody? Please. Really, I'm not trying to start a fight. I just want to understand why this restriction exists. p.s. F1 2001 does "everything" better? Does it simulate 1967 cars better than GPL? (Yep, THERE I'm trying to start a fight). Comparing GPL and F1 2001 is like comparing IL2 and MS Flight Simulator. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:I7i68.15152$[email hidden]...

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> F12001 does everything better than GPL except multiplayer and replay. The > FIA is the cause of the limited multiplayer. > > David G Fisher > > > "Mike Farrar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Im interested in opinions as to which is the most realistic sim. > > Which is the superior physics engine .. and why ? > > > > > > (I race GPL and love it .. havent tried f12001 yet ..... ) > > > > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, Dirt <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>>>With my MSFF (gameport) is dual axis it ignores the first >>>50% of the pedal travel. > > >You can fix this problem with DXTweak.exe by manually >adjusting the total range of the pots to match the >range that is actually used. I made it work in F1-2000.

Speaking of DXTweak.exe - does anyone know how to make it go past 1500 on the scale? The Thrustmaster Nascar Pro Force Feedback goes from 0-4096 and DXTweak insists on a max of 1500 or so, which means that if I use DXTweak to fix my pedals the wheel stops working correctly.

"Mike Farrar" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:[email hidden]... > Im interested in opinions as to which is the most realistic sim. Nice question, Mike. It was time somebody asked! <g> Never mind, we'll never know the correct answer to that one... > (I race GPL and love it .. havent tried f12001 yet ..... ) I have both games. Tried F12001 for half an hour - and found myself bored. Felt like I was playing a game, not racing a car. So back to GPL at once, and haven't touched F12001 since. Yes I know, gentlemen, 30 mins is not enough to discover the no doubt amazing depths of the new game, but let's just say I couldn't stand wrestling those horrible menus again. And ofcourse there's no online racing, whereas the next race in my GPL league is coming up so... why bother? Bye, Leo

>"Mike Farrar" <[email hidden]> wrote > Im interested in opinions as to which is the most realistic sim. > Which is the superior physics engine .. and why ? Well, I won't go anymore into comparing two different types of motorsports. They share the same type of racing, but that's where the similitude stop. I personally don't really like F12001 and prefer F1RC to it (surprise, surprise!). It has it's excellent things about it, customisation and scalability. The AI is superior but it all comes back to how it flows in my hands. F1RC has better tracks, I mean really superior tracks. I rate the engines about the same. GPL still has the best tracks (third user party and enhanced original tracks). I personally don't race the AI anymore, so if I do non-multiplayer racing it's hotlapping offline. GPL gives a much better fun out of hotlapping. That's obvious, those monsters are incredibly fun to drive and are difficult to master. The challenge is very rewarding also, driving a GPL car to it's limit is imho the most fun you can do in simracing today. No other sim can achieve this at the moment. GPL also gives a much better fun out of multiplayer racing (considering no other then Papyrus are able to do it correctly). The only thing left is during AI race, but since I don't do them, I can't judge the quality of both. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote > Anyway, I think we all more or less know that '67 GP cars didn't handlequite like the GPL versions. Yes, I think about everybody has accepted that fact now. I've accepted that around a year ago and just said to myself "Oh well!". I can drive GPL without really caring about it, it has it's own different game engine then reality, even if it's as close as GPL will ever get to that same reality. Therefore, I'm able to just race it in it's own virtual environment with it's proper laws and physics, and enjoy it :) It's just normal that with time, other new titles become more sophisticated. N4 and NR2002 are more sophisticated then GPL, but like somebody will say "It's still no GPL". There's a mystique and history behind it, there is the mixture of cars/sound/sight that everybody here enjoys. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"AlvinKlein" <[email hidden]> wrote > Just imagine, what if you can have FIA GT mod with N4 quality > multiplayer, N4/GPL quality replay & suspension/engine > adjustments, with GPL addon quality tracks. That would really > be sweet. Have you tried the N4 converter at Silverstone? It's pretty amazing. Yes, we lack the super downforce and lightweight of those FIA GT cars compared to the heavy powerful Nascar Winston Cups, but it's very challenging. Even the laptimes are amazing, the best lap I've seen there is a low 1:27. So... perhaps that sub-8minute lap at the Nurburgring IS possible ;-D -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > F12001 does everything better than GPL except multiplayer and replay. You are forgetting the tracks David.... and the community is much more "into" GPL, I would say. There's a much bigger following, but that's perfectly normal. GPL is a rare gem that nobody ever released close to it's type of racing, but there's tons of modern F1 sims on the shelves. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

That is an awesome mod, but unfortunately it has tons of issues (at least on my PC). I can't drive any of the cars for more than a few minutes without a lockup, and in some cases (usually the 996) it locks up on the first corner. Several of the cars have graphical errors where, every few seconds, I see the car in wire frame view instead of the normal view. I have no problems with F1 2001, just with the mod. OTOH I have not heard anyone else mention the same problems that I have had. So I guess I will try the next version, but for now I have given up on it. "AlvinKlein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > Speaking of F1 2001 mods, the FIA GT mod is great, I spent > about an hour just in practice #1 with the AI yesterday > while driving the Viper at Silverstone. > > Just imagine, what if you can have FIA GT mod with N4 quality > multiplayer, N4/GPL quality replay & suspension/engine > adjustments, with GPL addon quality tracks. That would really > be sweet. > > > > > > > > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Plus people who are creating mods with F12001 have come up > >with some very realistic feeling cars, so I think that whatever > >shortcomings F12001 may have are probably in the track and vehicle > >files, rather than in the physics model itself. >

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a3citt$16mtcf$[email hidden]...

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> That is an awesome mod, but unfortunately it has tons of issues (at > least on my PC). I can't drive any of the cars for more than a few > minutes without a lockup, and in some cases (usually the 996) it locks > up on the first corner. Several of the cars have graphical errors > where, every few seconds, I see the car in wire frame view instead of > the normal view. I have no problems with F1 2001, just with the mod. > OTOH I have not heard anyone else mention the same problems that I have > had. So I guess I will try the next version, but for now I have given > up on it.

I've had those problems. Changing the backfire sound to a quieter one seems to have solved the Turn 1 lockup problem for me (I think it actually was hitting the brakes that caused it). I have the graphical errors, including a half-second green-out through the windshield just before the S/F line at Spa. With all that, it's still fun racing though. -Phasor

[email hidden] (Ruud van Gaal) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > I have this as well, in fact the whole pedal set is a bit shabby. > Perhaps F12K1 installed something? Hope not. The reason this happens is because F1 200x views the center value of your pedal in DX as the zero value for that input. Since DX sets the center value as halfway between the pedal being fully depressed and fully released, F1 2001 doesn't notice that you're depressing the pedal until you've hit 50% travel. I have no idea why this hasn't been patched yet, and I can't think of a single sim that supports split-axis pedals and doesn't use the calibration information properly (or non-sims for that matter). You can fix this with dxtweak by setting the center value for each pedal axis one integer below (or above, depending on the axis) the value that is shown for a fully released pedal. Obviously, this can have weird affects in other racing games that use DX for controller input. I played the game for a bit in single-axis mode, but imho the grip model is so odd it's not really worth it. Brakes that don't lock up above 50mph (and seemingly don't lock up independently) and tires that magically grip when you're sliding sideways and nudge the brakes just don't do it for me. Not to mention the sheer and utter joy of drag racing between chicanes for a few hours. That said, if ISI at least acknowledges the split-axis problems I'll give them another chance when Cart World Series 200x comes out. Jason (CART SIM!)

"Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7di68.2556$Qq1.12524@shaw-ty2... > I still haven't seen any concrete proof of that: press release, copy of a > contract, etc. All I've seen is your blanket statements and a few posts > along the lines of "a friend of a friend heard from somebody who workswith > somebody else who heard that the FIA might have said..." You heard a little more than that. Do you really expect to see copies of contracts and FIA licensing agreements? > URL, anybody? Please. Really, I'm not trying to start a fight. I just want > to understand why this restriction exists. Money. > p.s. F1 2001 does "everything" better? Graphics, physics, sound, and miscellaneous details (like pitting, weather, etc.). All better. >Does it simulate 1967 cars better > than GPL? (Yep, THERE I'm trying to start a fight). Based on what I've seen with the GT mod, I'd say it would definitely do a better job of simulating '67 F1 cars. David G Fisher

You still think more people in this world are playing GPL than the modern F1 sims? More than just F12001 right now? David G Fisher "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_Gj68.50688$[email hidden]...

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> >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > F12001 does everything better than GPL except multiplayer and replay. > > > You are forgetting the tracks David.... and the community is much more > "into" GPL, I would say. There's a much bigger following, but that's > perfectly normal. GPL is a rare gem that nobody ever released close to

it's

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> type of racing, but there's tons of modern F1 sims on the shelves. > > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TCj68.50676$[email hidden]... > >"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Anyway, I think we all more or less know that '67 GP cars didn't handle > quite like the GPL versions. > > > Yes, I think about everybody has accepted that fact now. I've acceptedthat > around a year ago and just said to myself "Oh well!". I accepted that fact about a week after it's release. Glad to hear that just about everyone can finally admit I've been right all along. >There's a mystique and history behind it, there is the > mixture of cars/sound/sight that everybody here enjoys. <cough> David G Fisher

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > You still think more people in this world are playing GPL than the modernF1 > sims? More than just F12001 right now? No, I'm saying the community is more "into" GPL and creates more stuff for it. But the guys in F12001 are doing one heck of a job with all the mods. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > I accepted that fact about a week after it's release. Glad to hear thatjust > about everyone can finally admit I've been right all along. You weren't right all along, what you did is put down GPL as trash non-accurate sim. Yes, you went to that extreme. I perfectly accept GPL as flawed, but heck ALL the sims on the market are unrealistic. If you say that you were right with GPL, then you are right for ALL the other sims on the market. The only ones I could say are superior to GPL is N4 and NR2002, and even them aren't perfectly realistic. A perfectly realistic sim will never happen. Well it does, it's called real-life racing :) > >There's a mystique and history behind it, there is the > > mixture of cars/sound/sight that everybody here enjoys. > > <cough> It's the truth David. It's the year of the perfect combination of man and machine, of racing and gentlemenship. The same thing happens for WWII/WWI air sims, they have the same mystique compared to a bland modern F1 combat flight sim. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Don't assume too much, David. GPL perfectly lifelike? Nope. Closer by far than anything in its day, you bet. Even now GPL still gives me as good or better feedback on what's happening at the contact patches than anything else. And for my money that's the ball game. What was that quote from Schumacher last season about "listening" to the tires as they talked to him? SB "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote... > I accepted that fact about a week after it's release. Glad to hear that just about everyone can finally admit I've been right allalong.<

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> A short, marginally OT tire model refresher: > > Papy upgraded GPL's tire model with the original 1.1 patch, though they originally denied having made any physics changes. The > consensus around here was that the changes made GPL easier and there was a briefly a bit of a huff about GPL being "dumbed down". > But that soon died away in the wake of the other improvements (& that nasty 1.1 bug). Try GPL version 1.0 again for a lark and > you'll quickly feel the change. Dave Kaemmer was later quoted (in an N4-related interview) as saying something along the line that > he couldn't bring himself to drive GPL anymore due to the deficiencies in the tire model. And now the cycle repeats itself with > N2002. > > Anyone remember the way-back quote from the Wests during early WSC development that the more accuracy they packed into the physics > modeling, the EASIER it became to drive? Think it was in a show interview, including Hyperstimulators' John Crooke. Let's hope > that's so...

I've been saying that for years :) A better physics model make it easier to drive because you can better predict what the car is going to do. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

Dirt <[email hidden]> writes:

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> >>With my MSFF (gameport) is dual axis it ignores the first > >>50% of the pedal travel. > > > You can fix this problem with DXTweak.exe by manually > adjusting the total range of the pots to match the > range that is actually used. I made it work in F1-2000.

As I wrote in another post, DXTweak doesn't work in WinXP and Win2000. But I still regard it a issue as long as you have to use a 3rd party program to fix it. -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

In article <I7i68.15152$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >F12001 does everything better than GPL except multiplayer and replay. The >FIA is the cause of the limited multiplayer. Do you think the feedback from the car allows you to drive it 'on the edge' better? If so, how? I don't seem to get enough warning from F1 2001 before the car snaps loose. Maybe I'm not interpreting some signals correctly... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> Well, I won't go anymore into comparing two different types ofmotorsports. > They share the same type of racing, but that's where the similitude stop.I > personally don't really like F12001 and prefer F1RC to it (surprise, > surprise!). It has it's excellent things about it, customisation and > scalability. The AI is superior but it all comes back to how it flows inmy > hands. F1RC has better tracks, I mean really superior tracks. I rate the > engines about the same. GPL still has the best tracks (third user partyand > enhanced original tracks). F1RC doesn't handle anywhere near as realistically as F12001. I was one of the people who dismissed F12001 initially - boy did I feel silly once I saw how good it REALLY was (i.e. post-patch!) > I personally don't race the AI anymore, so if I do non-multiplayer racing > it's hotlapping offline. > GPL gives a much better fun out of hotlapping. > That's obvious, those monsters are incredibly fun to drive and aredifficult > to master. The challenge is very rewarding also, driving a GPL car toit's > limit is imho the most fun you can do in simracing today. No other simcan > achieve this at the moment. It is blindingly obvious that you haven't tried F12001 online hotlapping! > GPL also gives a much better fun out of > multiplayer racing (considering no other then Papyrus are able to do it > correctly). The only thing left is during AI race, but since I don't do > them, I can't judge the quality of both. Agreed. GPL is the best online multiplayer game (so the Americans tell us) (nowhere else has affordable high-speed internet)

Eh? I played GPL regularly on 33.6 modem before I opted for ADSL. It worked absolutely great. Ash - N.Ireland (i.e. not American) :) > > Agreed. GPL is the best online multiplayer game (so the Americans tell us) > (nowhere else has affordable high-speed internet) > > >

> > I accepted that fact about a week after it's release. Glad to hear that > just > > about everyone can finally admit I've been right all along. > > You weren't right all along, what you did is put down GPL as trash > non-accurate sim. Yes, you went to that extreme. I perfectly accept GPLas > flawed, but heck ALL the sims on the market are unrealistic. If you say > that you were right with GPL, then you are right for ALL the other sims on > the market. The only ones I could say are superior to GPL is N4 andNR2002, > and even them aren't perfectly realistic. > > A perfectly realistic sim will never happen. Well it does, it's called > real-life racing :) GPL is a fabulous game. It was the king until F12001 came along. Now, there's no reason to play GPL until you're lucky enough to be able to race online or you're an 'ol timer' who doesn't like these fancy modern cars.

Ashley McConnell <[email hidden]> writes: > Eh? I played GPL regularly on 33.6 modem before I opted for ADSL. It worked absolutely great. > > > Ash - N.Ireland (i.e. not American) :) > No problems whatsoever leagueracing a 20 car field on a Canadian server on my 28.8. :) -- Olav K. Malmin remove .spam when replying

> Eh? I played GPL regularly on 33.6 modem before I opted for ADSL. Itworked absolutely great. Yeah? Every time I tried it the other cars moved erratically around the track. I live 3km from the centre of my city and I've recently been told that I'm too far away from the phone exchange for ADSL. Oh well, it's $90 a month with a 3gig d/l limit anyway. What a joke....

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ftp68.19745$[email hidden]... > Don't assume too much, David. > > GPL perfectly lifelike? Nope. Closer by far than anything in its day,you bet. Even now GPL still gives me as good or better > feedback on what's happening at the contact patches than anything else. In its day yes, now (IMO)......... .no. I feel F1 2001 and N4 do a better job of giving feedback of whats happening.

Damien Smith wrote:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>>Eh? I played GPL regularly on 33.6 modem before I opted for ADSL. It >> > worked absolutely great. > > Yeah? Every time I tried it the other cars moved erratically around the > track. I live 3km from the centre of my city and I've recently been told > that I'm too far away from the phone exchange for ADSL. Oh well, it's $90 a > month with a 3gig d/l limit anyway. What a joke.... >

yeah, i live 3.42km from my exchange (was on the phone this mornin about ADSL probs) and its near the limit (3.5km). Perhaps you have been unlucky about the servers you have joined , try and get a low ping server - there are a few british servers that I used to get about 150ms to, they were absolutely perfect to race on. Dont give up, its incredibly good! All the best, Ash

> The F12001 physics engine is very innacurate - as a result the F1 carshave > been given VERY soft springs (they BOUNCE their way around Priory Corner > ffs!) Ever heard of dampers?

On 31 Jan 2002 12:27:14 +0100, Olav K. Malmin <[email hidden]> wrote: > > With my MSFF (gameport) is dual axis it ignores the first 50% of the pedal > travel. It is possible to use dxtweak to fix this, but dxtweak doesn't also, TSW2mod won't work at all in split axis mode. Uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) Ever wondered what's wrong with the world? http://bnetwork.com/ PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"EldredP" > > >F12001 does everything better than GPL except multiplayer and replay. The > >FIA is the cause of the limited multiplayer. > > Do you think the feedback from the car allows you to drive it 'on theedge' > better? If so, how? I don't seem to get enough warning from F1 2001before > the car snaps loose. Maybe I'm not interpreting some signals correctly... > > Eldred Ok Eldred, since I like you, here is a QUICK primer on interpreting feedback. to recognize an upcomming spin, you MUST pay attention to several factors. A) that straight piece of road is about to end B) the pedal thingy on the left is used C) you start wiggling the wheel dooliehicky D) you should be spinning by now... works everytime for me! dave henrie

David G Fisher wrote: > > You still think more people in this world are playing GPL than the modern F1 > sims? More than just F12001 right now? More people are indulging in full field online races with GPL, while little pricks like you are playing with themselves!

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > You still think more people in this world are playing GPL than themodern F1 > > sims? More than just F12001 right now? > > More people are indulging in full field online races with GPL, while > little pricks like you are playing with themselves! Sad fact of the matter is, probably more people are playing N4 (online and off) than all F1 sims (GPL included) combined. Face it guys, open wheel racing isn't big in the US market, and that's what the game publishers are shooting for.

Damien Smith wrote: > Agreed. GPL is the best online multiplayer game (so the Americans tell us) > (nowhere else has affordable high-speed internet) Bollocks! I pay £20 a month for cable. Not that you need high-speed internet access for GPL, 28k is quite sufficient, I raced GPL online with 28k for two years no problem at all. I think in about 50 league races I only had 4 disconnection's, faring no worse than some of the guys with ISDN.

>"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > GPL is a fabulous game. It was the king until F12001 came along. Now, > there's no reason to play GPL until you're lucky enough to be able to race > online or you're an 'ol timer' who doesn't like these fancy modern cars. Offline single-player racing and multiplayer racing is more appealing in GPL by a large margain. Why would I race F12001 on incredibly inaccurate tracks that gives me no sensation of "being there"? Especially with the bland overwashed EA-style graphics that I absolutely loathe. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > F1RC doesn't handle anywhere near as realistically as F12001. F12001 has crappy tracks. They are *really* bad. > (i.e. post-patch!) I'm sorry, but "post-patch" is not how it should be. If it was how it should be, then it would had been that way. > It is blindingly obvious that you haven't tried F12001 online hotlapping! Online hotlapping? LOL -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Damien Smith wrote: > > > Eh? I played GPL regularly on 33.6 modem before I opted for ADSL. It > worked absolutely great. > > Yeah? Every time I tried it the other cars moved erratically around the > track. I see, so you've transposed your bad experience onto the rest of the world.... well, apart from the US that is. > I live 3km from the centre of my city and I've recently been told > that I'm too far away from the phone exchange for ADSL. Oh well, it's $90 a > month with a 3gig d/l limit anyway. What a joke.... My heat bleeds, no really, it does...

Gerry Aitken wrote:

Quoted text (22 lines)

> > Damien Smith wrote: > >>>Eh? I played GPL regularly on 33.6 modem before I opted for ADSL. It >>> >>worked absolutely great. >> >>Yeah? Every time I tried it the other cars moved erratically around the >>track. >> > > I see, so you've transposed your bad experience onto the rest of the > world.... well, apart from the US that is. > > >>I live 3km from the centre of my city and I've recently been told >>that I'm too far away from the phone exchange for ADSL. Oh well, it's $90 a >>month with a 3gig d/l limit anyway. What a joke.... >> > > My heat bleeds, no really, it does... >

Gerry, you seem to be in a rage - relaaaaaax :) Has ymenard annoyed you? Ash

Damien Smith wrote: > > It is blindingly obvious that you haven't tried F12001 online hotlapping! How does that work then? You just leave your PC connected to the internet, fire up F12001 and start hotlapping? Or is it deeper than that? Have you even tried it yourself? The one thing that's blindingly obvious is your comments are worthless!

Rob Adams wrote:

Quoted text (18 lines)

> > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > > > You still think more people in this world are playing GPL than the > modern F1 > > > sims? More than just F12001 right now? > > > > More people are indulging in full field online races with GPL, while > > little pricks like you are playing with themselves! > > Sad fact of the matter is, probably more people are playing N4 (online and > off) than all F1 sims (GPL included) combined. Face it guys, open wheel > racing isn't big in the US market, and that's what the game publishers are > shooting for.

Or: more people are racing online with papy sims :). Don't lump GPL in with the modern F1 trash products, please! ;) Cheers Gerry

Ashley McConnell wrote: > Gerry, you seem to be in a rage - relaaaaaax :) Ok, hehee. Deeeeep breaths... > Has ymenard annoyed you? No no no, I agree with what he's saying within this thread. Cheers Gerry

>"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote >Bollocks! I pay �20 a month for cable. Yep, I pay about 25$ US per month in translated dollars for a 1.5mbits xDSL connection. It's cheaper then about anywhere in the USofA. They just think we're still logging on the net with strings and tin cans, and that phone co. are charging us 100$ per month for it. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> They just think we're still logging on the net with strings and tin cans, > and that phone co. are charging us 100$ per month for it. yeah but you guys haven't gotten the cool updated string/fibre modification yet for the tin cans have you??? dave henrie

Who cares about what is going on in just the U.S.? F1 sims sell like crazy all over the world. 350,000,000 people watch each F1 race. 11,000,000 watch each NASCAR race. Of course more people are playing F1 sims. David G Fisher "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8xz68.2600$Qq1.12497@shaw-ty2... > Sad fact of the matter is, probably more people are playing N4 (online and > off) than all F1 sims (GPL included) combined. Face it guys, open wheel > racing isn't big in the US market, and that's what the game publishers are > shooting for.

Holy crap! I don't know why I never noticed this before, but I am having the same problem with my LWFFGP in Win98. The fact that I didn't even notice and just thought I had a little dead spot makes me think that maybe everybody has this problem, and most have simply not realized it. This is really stupid. Now I understand why I have so much trouble getting consistent braking and so much trouble with power oversteer on corner exits. I guess until they fix it I will go back to combined axis for that game. Which in turn means going back to right foot braking to prevent myself from thinking I am braking when I am not. Ugh. "Olav K. Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted text (10 lines)

> Ashley McConnell <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > Issues with F1 2001 not yet fixed my patch or addon: > > > > > > - No proper working dual axis support for the MSFF > > > > > > Odd, my MSFF works just fine (the Gameport version) > > With my MSFF (gameport) is dual axis it ignores the first 50% of the

pedal

Quoted text (10 lines)

> travel. It is possible to use dxtweak to fix this, but dxtweak doesn't > work with win2000 or winXP, and the msff doesn't work in single axis > for the same os'es. So I have to use either win98 or winME for F1 > 2001 (and gpl since I have soundcard issues with gpl and xp), and > since my system had over 512 mb ddr ram it's kind of a waste to use > the old windows core. > > -- > Olav K. Malmin > remove .spam when replying

Eldred, Even with a good physics engine (or maybe *especially* with a good physics engine) the amount of feedback you get depends heavily on vehicle setup. Softer suspensions, to a point, tend to give more feedback. With F1 2001 and any sim representing a vehicle that uses a lot of downforce, you are stuck with a much stiffer suspension than in GPL, there is no good way around it. I have found though that using spring rates that are somewhat lighter than the defaults in F1 2001 does increase the amount of "feel". Also, the default setups are much too stiff in front in proportion to the weight distribution, making the steering feed back even less. I am playing around with a Williams setup now that uses 140 N/mm springs in front, 175 N/mm in the rear, and 130 N/mm bars in front, 150 N/mm in the rear. I can't say that I have it all worked out yet, but it does feel a hell of a lot better than the defaults, and doesn't seem to be any slower. Try it, you might like it. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <I7i68.15152$[email hidden]>, "David GFisher" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >F12001 does everything better than GPL except multiplayer and replay.The > >FIA is the cause of the limited multiplayer. > > Do you think the feedback from the car allows you to drive it 'on theedge' > better? If so, how? I don't seem to get enough warning from F1 2001before > the car snaps loose. Maybe I'm not interpreting some signalscorrectly...

Quoted text (8 lines)

> > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then

beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Dave Henrie wrote:

Quoted text (21 lines)

> > "EldredP" > > > >F12001 does everything better than GPL except multiplayer and replay. The > > >FIA is the cause of the limited multiplayer. > > > > Do you think the feedback from the car allows you to drive it 'on the > edge' > > better? If so, how? I don't seem to get enough warning from F1 2001 > before > > the car snaps loose. Maybe I'm not interpreting some signals correctly... > > > > Eldred > Ok Eldred, since I like you, here is a QUICK primer on interpreting > feedback. > to recognize an upcomming spin, you MUST pay attention to several factors. > A) that straight piece of road is about to end > B) the pedal thingy on the left is used > C) you start wiggling the wheel dooliehicky > D) you should be spinning by now... > works everytime for me! > dave henrie

I can confirm this, I've been league racing with Dave H, he's the MASTER Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

"ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VHz68.36580$[email hidden]... > >"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote > > GPL is a fabulous game. It was the king until F12001 came along. Now, > > there's no reason to play GPL until you're lucky enough to be able torace > > online or you're an 'ol timer' who doesn't like these fancy modern cars. > > > Offline single-player racing and multiplayer racing is more appealing inGPL > by a large margain. Why would I race F12001 on incredibly inaccuratetracks > that gives me no sensation of "being there"? Especially with the bland > overwashed EA-style graphics that I absolutely loathe. > > > I loved GPL, always will, but I have to admit since building this new system, F12001 resides on my hard drive and I have to to install GPL on it. I guess partly because I really like F12001, and partly because I am hesitant installing the 3 year old GPL on windows XP. I can't comment on the track innaccuracies as I am noF1 purist, heck for the most part I don't even care for F1, but I am enjoying this game. The graphics have come a long way also. Don Burnette

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <I7i68.15152$[email hidden]>, "David GFisher" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >F12001 does everything better than GPL except multiplayer and replay. The > >FIA is the cause of the limited multiplayer. > > Do you think the feedback from the car allows you to drive it 'on theedge' > better? If so, how? I don't seem to get enough warning from F1 2001before > the car snaps loose. Maybe I'm not interpreting some signals correctly... > > Eldred Could be that your steering or car setup is making the car too twitchy. Are you having trouble at high, medium, or low speeds? David G Fisher

In article <Q7D68.16846$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >Who cares about what is going on in just the U.S.? F1 sims sell like crazy >all over the world. 350,000,000 people watch each F1 race. 11,000,000 watch >each NASCAR race. Of course more people are playing F1 sims. > While I'll agree that more people watch F! than NASCAR, that doesn't necessarily translate to computer games. Possible, yes. Definite, no way to know. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <PdZ68.20886$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (11 lines)

>> Do you think the feedback from the car allows you to drive it 'on the >edge' >> better? If so, how? I don't seem to get enough warning from F1 2001 >before >> the car snaps loose. Maybe I'm not interpreting some signals correctly... >> >> Eldred > >Could be that your steering or car setup is making the car too twitchy. Are >you having trouble at high, medium, or low speeds? >

Yes.<g> Actually, I hadn't paid attention to a certain speed. If I had to guess without trying it again right now, it's twitchy at high speeds. I may have problems in the low speed corners because I can't judge exactly how fast I'm going... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <a3f6se$181cad$[email hidden]>, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (16 lines)

>Eldred, > >Even with a good physics engine (or maybe *especially* with a good >physics engine) the amount of feedback you get depends heavily on >vehicle setup. Softer suspensions, to a point, tend to give more >feedback. With F1 2001 and any sim representing a vehicle that uses a >lot of downforce, you are stuck with a much stiffer suspension than in >GPL, there is no good way around it. I have found though that using >spring rates that are somewhat lighter than the defaults in F1 2001 does >increase the amount of "feel". Also, the default setups are much too >stiff in front in proportion to the weight distribution, making the >steering feed back even less. I am playing around with a Williams setup >now that uses 140 N/mm springs in front, 175 N/mm in the rear, and 130 >N/mm bars in front, 150 N/mm in the rear. I can't say that I have it >all worked out yet, but it does feel a hell of a lot better than the >defaults, and doesn't seem to be any slower. Try it, you might like it.

I have NO idea what that means, but I wrote down the numbers. I'll just poke around in the setup screen until I find the right place to enter them...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>David G Fisher wrote: >> >> You still think more people in this world are playing GPL than the modern >F1 >> sims? More than just F12001 right now? > >More people are indulging in full field online races with GPL, while >little pricks like you are playing with themselves! >

Given the sales figures that are thrown around, there are MANY more people who own F1 2001 than GPL. Many people may have both, but statistically and logically, there HAVE to be more people playing F1 2001... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <dIx68.1271$[email hidden]>, "H.S.Thompson" <[email hidden]> writes: >In its day yes, now (IMO)......... .no. I feel F1 2001 and N4 do a better >job of giving feedback of whats happening. Really? I'm not getting that same feedback from those two games, but I can't figure out WHY... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <jkz68.4928$[email hidden]>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (9 lines)

> Ok Eldred, since I like you, here is a QUICK primer on interpreting >feedback. > to recognize an upcomming spin, you MUST pay attention to several factors. >A) that straight piece of road is about to end >B) the pedal thingy on the left is used >C) you start wiggling the wheel dooliehicky >D) you should be spinning by now... >works everytime for me! >dave henrie

Thanks, Dave, but I don't have ANY problems spinning. I'm trying to keep the effing thing on the TRACK...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Uwe Schuerkamp <[email hidden]> writes:

Quoted text (9 lines)

>On 31 Jan 2002 12:27:14 +0100, Olav K. Malmin ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >> >> With my MSFF (gameport) is dual axis it ignores the first 50% of the pedal >> travel. It is possible to use dxtweak to fix this, but dxtweak doesn't > >also, TSW2mod won't work at all in split axis mode. >

Sure it will. It isn't JUST your TSW2mod. It's the combination of your wheel, with that particular game, with your particular game port(SBLive, right?). My TSW2mod works fine for F1 2001, but I have to hold down the pedals when I start the game, and again when I go to the track. Jumping through hoops - yes, agreed. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> I have NO idea what that means, but I wrote down the numbers. I'll justpoke > around in the setup screen until I find the right place to enterthem...<g> > > Eldred It's them Fureners Eldred. You'll have to change your setups and measurements from imperial to metric. So no more gallons, but litres, and no more spring rates measured in pounds like most Nascar titles but them funny nm items. dave henrie

Did you try some of Ian Bell's setups from simbin.com? What are your steering sensitivity and speed sensitivity settings? David G Fisher "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <PdZ68.20886$[email hidden]>, "David GFisher" > > > >Could be that your steering or car setup is making the car too twitchy.Are > >you having trouble at high, medium, or low speeds? > > > > Yes.<g> > Actually, I hadn't paid attention to a certain speed. If I had to guess > without trying it again right now, it's twitchy at high speeds. I mayhave > problems in the low speed corners because I can't judge exactly how fastI'm

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> going... > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Well if you absolutely have to do it to save your sanity you can change the measurement units in the display options to Imperial units, and then you will be able to work with the units you are used to in the setup screen. Trouble is the display fields aren't big enough, so if your spring rate gets too high it just shows 999 lbs/in instead of whatever it really is. Better to just bite the bullet and get used to the SI units. "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Zs178.8827$S06.30248@rwcrnsc53... > > I have NO idea what that means, but I wrote down the numbers. I'lljust

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> poke > > around in the setup screen until I find the right place to enter > them...<g> > > > > Eldred > It's them Fureners Eldred. You'll have to change your setups and > measurements from imperial to metric. So no more gallons, but litres,

and > no more spring rates measured in pounds like most Nascar titles butthem > funny nm items. > dave henrie > >

It might be sound related, but I don't think it was the backfire sound in my case. At least some of the lock ups have occured when hitting a wall (uh, for testing purposes of course). Hopefully they will clean all of this up in the next version. "Phasor" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3c59ddc3$[email hidden]... > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a3citt$16mtcf$[email hidden]... > > That is an awesome mod, but unfortunately it has tons of issues (at > > least on my PC). I can't drive any of the cars for more than a few > > minutes without a lockup, and in some cases (usually the 996) itlocks > > up on the first corner. Several of the cars have graphical errors > > where, every few seconds, I see the car in wire frame view insteadof > > the normal view. I have no problems with F1 2001, just with themod. > > OTOH I have not heard anyone else mention the same problems that Ihave > > had. So I guess I will try the next version, but for now I havegiven > > up on it. > > I've had those problems. Changing the backfire sound to a quieter oneseems > to have solved the Turn 1 lockup problem for me (I think it actuallywas > hitting the brakes that caused it). I have the graphical errors,including > a half-second green-out through the windshield just before the S/Fline at > Spa. With all that, it's still fun racing though. > > -Phasor > >

On 03 Feb 2002 01:14:32 GMT, EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, Uwe Schuerkamp ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>also, TSW2mod won't work at all in split axis mode. >> > > Sure it will. It isn't JUST your TSW2mod. It's the combination of your wheel, > with that particular game, with your particular game port(SBLive, right?). My > TSW2mod works fine for F1 2001, but I have to hold down the pedals when I start > the game, and again when I go to the track. Jumping through hoops - yes, > agreed. >

Sorry to say, but the setup worked ok in F1CS2000 (pressing the brake pedal), so why did they fuck it up in F1 2001, a product technically far superior? I've tried numerous suggestions trying to get split axis to work, but it doesn't. It's really a shame that papy seem to be the only shop capable of writing a decent calibration routine. 8-( Cheers, uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) Ever wondered what's wrong with the world? http://bnetwork.com/ PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

Uwe - I'm a little late to this thread, but if the problem is the brake being backwards with split axis, Dave Thomas Jr. told me that there are just two wires to reverse on the brake pot to fix this. Give TE a call! - David "Uwe Schuerkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On 03 Feb 2002 01:14:32 GMT, EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote: > > In article <[email hidden]>, Uwe Schuerkamp > ><[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >>also, TSW2mod won't work at all in split axis mode. > >> > > > > Sure it will. It isn't JUST your TSW2mod. It's the combination of your

wheel, > > with that particular game, with your particular game port(SBLive,right?). My > > TSW2mod works fine for F1 2001, but I have to hold down the pedals whenI start > > the game, and again when I go to the track. Jumping through hoops -yes,

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> > agreed. > > > > Sorry to say, but the setup worked ok in F1CS2000 > (pressing the brake pedal), so why did they fuck it up in F1 > 2001, a product technically far superior? I've tried numerous > suggestions trying to get split axis to work, but it doesn't. > > It's really a shame that papy seem to be the only shop capable > of writing a decent calibration routine. 8-( > > Cheers, > > uwe > > > > > -- > Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ > Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) > Ever wondered what's wrong with the world? http://bnetwork.com/ > PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61 >

In article <Wl278.22026$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >Did you try some of Ian Bell's setups from simbin.com? > I downloaded some, but at the time he didn't have the car I was trying to drive(Benetton), and the track I was trying to drive(Brazil)... I'll try another car/track combo. >What are your steering sensitivity and speed sensitivity settings? > Speed sensitivity is 50%. Couldn't fine the steering sensitivity... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In the controller setup, you will see two little joystick icons on the bottom of the screen. Most likely you will want to click on the one numbered "1", that will get you to the axis sensitivity settings. Normally steering is on the x axis. "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <Wl278.22026$[email hidden]>, "David GFisher"

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> <[email hidden]> writes: > > Speed sensitivity is 50%. Couldn't fine the steering sensitivity... > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then

beats you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <Wl278.22026$[email hidden]>, "David GFisher"

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> <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Did you try some of Ian Bell's setups from simbin.com? > > > > I downloaded some, but at the time he didn't have the car I was trying to > drive(Benetton), and the track I was trying to drive(Brazil)... I'll try > another car/track combo.

You have specific needs, don't you? :-) > >What are your steering sensitivity and speed sensitivity settings? > > > > Speed sensitivity is 50%. Couldn't fine the steering sensitivity... Hasqua tells you where to find that setting in his reply. The x axis sensitivity setting is probably what's causing you your problems. Try the x axis sensitivity setting at 20%, and then move the speed sensitivity up until the car feels stable at high speed. After awhile, you might end up wanting to raise the x axis sensitivity up a bit, and lower the speed sensitivity. All depends on the the type of wheel you use. Set your brake sensitivity at around 40% and throttle sensitivity at 85%. With my Ferrari wheel, I have a lot better control of the throttle when the throttle sensitivity is set high. When the setting is low, the throttle is off/on which makes it hard to control the car in low speed turns and during acceleration. I wouldn't bother messing with your steering lock setting in the car setup. That's something you'd do later on after you get the wheel set up comfortably, and it's specific to each track and car. David G Fiher

Basically? They are as good as one another. GPL is great out of the box with patches etc.. F1 2001 is great with the patch and probably could even be better with the number of modifiable physics, but in the original mode the cars handle just a little bit too easy (too much downforce for me). I love both of them just as much as the other. The only advantage F1 2001 has over GPL is it is totally modifiable. Just look at the FIA GT mods. JUST as good as any sim I've driven. GPL will always be the classic sim, but there is better to come. James "Mike Farrar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Im interested in opinions as to which is the most realistic sim. > Which is the superior physics engine .. and why ? > > > (I race GPL and love it .. havent tried f12001 yet ..... ) > >

"James Pickard" wrote... > Basically? > <snip> > GPL will always be the classic sim, but there is better to come. About time too. Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

When we last talked about this, I had only tried 100% and 50% for throttle axis sensitivity, and between the two I thought that 50% felt better. However I just tried 85% and you are quite right, that does feel a little more controllable. Haven't tried changing the brake sensitivity yet, but haven't really felt uncomfortable with it either. Thanks for the tip. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ooh78.23416$[email hidden]... > > Set your brake sensitivity at around 40% and throttle sensitivity at85%. > With my Ferrari wheel, I have a lot better control of the throttlewhen the > throttle sensitivity is set high. When the setting is low, thethrottle is > off/on which makes it hard to control the car in low speed turns andduring > acceleration. > > I wouldn't bother messing with your steering lock setting in the carsetup. > That's something you'd do later on after you get the wheel set up > comfortably, and it's specific to each track and car. > > David G Fiher > >

In article <a3kne0$18fagv$[email hidden]>, "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> >When we last talked about this, I had only tried 100% and 50% for >throttle axis sensitivity, and between the two I thought that 50% felt >better. However I just tried 85% and you are quite right, that does >feel a little more controllable. Haven't tried changing the brake >sensitivity yet, but haven't really felt uncomfortable with it either. >Thanks for the tip. > > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:ooh78.23416$[email hidden]... >> >> Set your brake sensitivity at around 40% and throttle sensitivity at >85%. >> With my Ferrari wheel, I have a lot better control of the throttle >when the >> throttle sensitivity is set high. When the setting is low, the >throttle is >> off/on which makes it hard to control the car in low speed turns and >during >> acceleration.

To piggyback here: David - I tried Ian Bell's setup for Hockenheim. Boy, that's a twitchy car...<g> I haven't tried changing the steering sensitivity yet, but I'll do that if I can't get a handle on the controls. I have problems just stayng on the TRACK. I wish this program could give you a list of all the laptimes, instead of just the fast lap. I also wish you could tell what laptimes you did WHILE you're running. It would be easier to say, "Hmm, that line through the corner was faster than before..." Did I miss *another* setting somewhere?<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <a3kne0$18fagv$[email hidden]>, "Haqsau" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >When we last talked about this, I had only tried 100% and 50% for > >throttle axis sensitivity, and between the two I thought that 50% felt > >better. However I just tried 85% and you are quite right, that does > >feel a little more controllable. Haven't tried changing the brake > >sensitivity yet, but haven't really felt uncomfortable with it either. > >Thanks for the tip. > > > > > >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:ooh78.23416$[email hidden]... > >> > >> Set your brake sensitivity at around 40% and throttle sensitivity at > >85%. > >> With my Ferrari wheel, I have a lot better control of the throttle > >when the > >> throttle sensitivity is set high. When the setting is low, the > >throttle is > >> off/on which makes it hard to control the car in low speed turns and > >during > >> acceleration. > > To piggyback here: David - I tried Ian Bell's setup for Hockenheim. Boy, > that's a twitchy car...<g> I haven't tried changing the steering

sensitivity > yet, but I'll do that if I can't get a handle on the controls. I haveproblems > just stayng on the TRACK. I wish this program could give you a list ofall the > laptimes, instead of just the fast lap. I also wish you could tell what > laptimes you did WHILE you're running. It would be easier to say, "Hmm,that > line through the corner was faster than before..." > Did I miss *another* setting somewhere?<g> The car actually shouldn't feel twitchy at all on that track. You need to adjust the steering sensitivity and speed sensivity and you'll see a huge difference. That's got to be why you find the car so unstable. It's part of the controller setup, not car setup. A better list of lap times would be good. You'll have to take a quick glance at the wheel to see you're lap times while you're driving. It also needs a better replay system. I really wish it had a ghost mode too. I'm pretty sure F12000/CS had a ghost mode. David G Fisher

In article <ooh78.23416$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >> I downloaded some, but at the time he didn't have the car I was trying to >> drive(Benetton), and the track I was trying to drive(Brazil)... I'll try >> another car/track combo. > >You have specific needs, don't you? :-) Doesn't everyone? <g> I tried Hockenheim(another message). I'm just going to have to do some testing for different settings. I'll try the ones you listed, thanks. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> To piggyback here: David - I tried Ian Bell's setup for Hockenheim. Boy, > that's a twitchy car...<g> I haven't tried changing the steeringsensitivity > yet, but I'll do that if I can't get a handle on the controls. I haveproblems > just stayng on the TRACK. I wish this program could give you a list ofall the > laptimes, instead of just the fast lap. I also wish you could tell what > laptimes you did WHILE you're running. It would be easier to say, "Hmm,that > line through the corner was faster than before..." > Did I miss *another* setting somewhere?<g> Eldred, I've got speed sensitivity set to 0% (the same as full linear in GPL) and X-axis set to 3%! - feels fabulous. If I set X-axis higher than 10%, it feels very twitchy. -- Damien Smith [email hidden] ICQ: 77028579 F1 2001 rank: +35.325

In article <a3o3sj$19hupq$[email hidden]>, "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> writes: >> Did I miss *another* setting somewhere?<g> > >Eldred, I've got speed sensitivity set to 0% (the same as full linear in >GPL) and X-axis set to 3%! - feels fabulous. If I set X-axis higher than >10%, it feels very twitchy. 3? That sounds undriveable... I don't have my steering in GPL full linear. I did for a while, but I couldn't handle it. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <ahD78.25656$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >The car actually shouldn't feel twitchy at all on that track. You need to >adjust the steering sensitivity and speed sensivity and you'll see a huge >difference. That's got to be why you find the car so unstable. It's part of >the controller setup, not car setup. >That's cool. Like I said, I need to do some tweaking... >A better list of lap times would be good. You'll have to take a quick glance >at the wheel to see you're lap times while you're driving. It also needs a >better replay system. I really wish it had a ghost mode too. I'm pretty sure >F12000/CS had a ghost mode. I'll have to run a track like Spain. On the ones I've tried so far(Germany and Brazil), you need to be looking at the upcoming turn as you cross the s/f line. So I didn't realize it showed on the wheel - by the time I get a chance to look at it, it's gone. The font is also too small to read while dicing for position... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 03 Feb 2002 01:14:32 GMT, EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote: > Thanks, Dave, but I don't have ANY problems spinning. I'm trying to keep the > effing thing on the TRACK...<g> Remember, a spin in 30 days, no more! (According to Skip Barber, anyway ;-) uwe

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Uwe Schuerkamp) writes:

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>On 03 Feb 2002 01:14:32 GMT, EldredP <[email hidden]> wrote: > >> Thanks, Dave, but I don't have ANY problems spinning. I'm trying to keep >the >> effing thing on the TRACK...<g> > >Remember, a spin in 30 days, no more! (According to Skip Barber, >anyway ;-)

Come on, Hoover - gimme a break!<g> Hmm... - Is that really in the book? Damn, gotta re-read it... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.