Learning to drive in America!

Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are honeymooning in San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. Does anyone know of any simulation which would be reasonable for driving around the streets of a californian city? I've tried downloading Driver (1) for the PC, but for some reason the controls (I have USB keyboard & mouse) are erratic - they keep 'sticking', and 'lagging'... odd behaviour. Apart from that - the LA driving in "Driver" is perfect :) Does anyone know of a replacement sim for US (right hand side of the road) driving? Preferably one with traffic lights, and LA or San Diego maps would be a bonus! Many thanks in advance, -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

"Liddle Feesh" wrote... > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are honeymooningin > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. > > Does anyone know of any simulation which would be reasonable for driving > around the streets of a californian city? I've tried downloading Driver(1) > for the PC, but for some reason the controls (I have USB keyboard & mouse) > are erratic - they keep 'sticking', and 'lagging'... odd behaviour. Apart > from that - the LA driving in "Driver" is perfect :) > > Does anyone know of a replacement sim for US (right hand side of the road) > driving? Preferably one with traffic lights, and LA or San Diego mapswould

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> be a bonus! > > Many thanks in advance, > > > -- > Liddle Feesh > ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ > (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

Don't worry about it, I've driven around SD and LA quite a bit and the whole thing is so laid back there's nothing to it. Just drive at 50% of your UK pace, and remember to stop at Stop signs even if there's no-one in sight. The greater danger is when you get home, relax, then drive off down the wrong side of the road (I know, I've done it...) Tony Whitley GPLRank -0.54

"Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:lCB68.9501$[email hidden]... > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are honeymooningin > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. > > Does anyone know of any simulation which would be reasonable for driving > around the streets of a californian city? I've tried downloading Driver(1) > for the PC, but for some reason the controls (I have USB keyboard & mouse) > are erratic - they keep 'sticking', and 'lagging'... odd behaviour. Apart > from that - the LA driving in "Driver" is perfect :) > > Does anyone know of a replacement sim for US (right hand side of the road) > driving? Preferably one with traffic lights, and LA or San Diego mapswould > be a bonus! Midtown Madness 2 might be some of what you're looking for. It does have traffic lights, but the general theme of the game is to DISOBEY all traffic laws. So ignore the other drivers, they are even more idiotic than most real life drivers. I think that except for driving on the "wrong" side of the road, you'll find driving in the States easier than in England. No traffic circles, and the cities are designed around the roads unlike England where the cities were there LONG before the invention of the car...

Rent the movie LA Story by Steve Martin for some LA driving lessons. :-) curtis "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:PKB68.3204$7n.7388@shaw-ty1... > "Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:lCB68.9501$[email hidden]... > > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > > > > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� arehoneymooning

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> in > > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. > > > > Does anyone know of any simulation which would be reasonable for driving > > around the streets of a californian city? I've tried downloading Driver > (1) > > for the PC, but for some reason the controls (I have USB keyboard &

mouse) > > are erratic - they keep 'sticking', and 'lagging'... odd behaviour.Apart > > from that - the LA driving in "Driver" is perfect :) > > > > Does anyone know of a replacement sim for US (right hand side of theroad) > > driving? Preferably one with traffic lights, and LA or San Diego maps > would > > be a bonus! > > Midtown Madness 2 might be some of what you're looking for. It does have > traffic lights, but the general theme of the game is to DISOBEY alltraffic > laws. So ignore the other drivers, they are even more idiotic than mostreal > life drivers. > > I think that except for driving on the "wrong" side of the road, you'llfind > driving in the States easier than in England. No traffic circles, and the > cities are designed around the roads unlike England where the cities were > there LONG before the invention of the car... > >

"imaswinger" wrote: > Rent the movie LA Story by Steve Martin for some LA driving lessons. Steve Martin? Superb! Okay! -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

"Rob Adams" wrote: > Midtown Madness 2 might be some of what you're looking for. It does have > traffic lights, but the general theme of the game is to DISOBEY alltraffic > laws. So ignore the other drivers, they are even more idiotic than mostreal > life drivers. > > I think that except for driving on the "wrong" side of the road, you'llfind > driving in the States easier than in England. No traffic circles, and the > cities are designed around the roads unlike England where the cities were > there LONG before the invention of the car... That's comforting to know. Those roundabouts - there's one in Florida - a famous one, for accident blackspots! It's on the net somewhere.... -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

"Tony Whitley" wrote: > Don't worry about it, I've driven around SD and LA quite a bit and thewhole > thing is so laid back there's nothing to it. Just drive at 50% of your UK > pace, and remember to stop at Stop signs even if there's no-one in sight. > The greater danger is when you get home, relax, then drive off down the > wrong side of the road (I know, I've done it...) 50% of UK Speed huh? Hmm, thing is - isn't the speed limit there 55mph or something? That's well slow! All those beeg cars too! -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

Someone grabbed my LA Story line. Let's see...think.... Driving in Cali....umm.... small arms... body armor.... um.. I mean armour.... And if you see Kelsey Grammar or Halli Barry on the road... ditch the car. Seriously. Sierra has or had a Driver's Ed title. Not sure what the name is/was, but you could check their site. -- btgoss btgoss(my_shorts)@yahoo.com Remove my shorts to reply "Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:OIC68.9660$[email hidden]... > "Rob Adams" wrote: > > > Midtown Madness 2 might be some of what you're looking for. It does have > > traffic lights, but the general theme of the game is to DISOBEY all > traffic > > laws. So ignore the other drivers, they are even more idiotic than most > real > > life drivers. > > > > I think that except for driving on the "wrong" side of the road, you'll > find > > driving in the States easier than in England. No traffic circles, and the > > cities are designed around the roads unlike England where the cities were > > there LONG before the invention of the car... > > That's comforting to know. Those roundabouts - there's one in Florida - a > famous one, for accident blackspots! It's on the net somewhere.... > > > -- > Liddle Feesh > ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ > (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply) > > > >

The biggest problem with driving in America as I see it is the fact that everything is so over-regulated. I don't think this will impact YOU directly, but understand it does radically change the abilities of Americans. I'm mean, it would affect you if you stayed here long enough, but doesn't sound like you will. What I mean is, in America, the government is doing everything in its power to remove any decision making responsibility from the driver. Most of the time, you don't have to think about what you're doing because you have all kinds of "aids" to help you. I mean, you don't have to worry about is it safe to pass because the stripe in the center of the road will tell you. You don't have to worry about is it safe to turn left, because the traffic arrow will tell you. You don't have to worry about is it safe to go thru the intersection, because either there is a light or they are all being converted to 4-way stop. You don't have to worry about how safe to go thru a turn, because the corner speed is marked. You don't have to worry about how fast to go straight, because the speed limit is posted. You don't have to worry about can I get on the freeway because it is metered. I guess in theory this might be safer (in the mind of your average moronic bureaucrat anyway) but in practice it results in a very noticable degradation in driving ability and turns drivers into pre-programmed robots that have a very hard time dealing with any situation that is somehow "out of the ordinary". So here is the problem: *You* (Liddle) are driving down the road. *You* (Liddle) approach one of the few intersections that is not 4-way stop. Say it is 2-way, or 3-way (the worst) . You notice it for what it is, a 3-way stop (because in Europe you have to pay attention to this kind of thing). You notice you are not required to stop, but the other drivers are. BUT the American moron already stopped at the same intersection at a 90 degree angle from you is so programed by all the 4-way stops he's so used to, he just *as sumes* you will stop and pulls right out right in front of you. You T-bone him. That's just an example. The point is they're trying to turn us into cattle and we're beginning to respond. So when you get here, just remember to drive like everybody else is a cow and you should be OK. -Tony- P.S. Better make that an *armed* cow. Remember, an armed society is a POLITE society. I'm sure you'll do fine, just remember to mind your manners. "Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:lCB68.9501$[email hidden]... > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are honeymooningin > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. > > Does anyone know of any simulation which would be reasonable for driving > around the streets of a californian city? I've tried downloading Driver(1) > for the PC, but for some reason the controls (I have USB keyboard & mouse) > are erratic - they keep 'sticking', and 'lagging'... odd behaviour. Apart > from that - the LA driving in "Driver" is perfect :) > > Does anyone know of a replacement sim for US (right hand side of the road) > driving? Preferably one with traffic lights, and LA or San Diego mapswould

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> be a bonus! > > Many thanks in advance, > > > -- > Liddle Feesh > ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ > (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply) > > > > > >

Hey Liddle? Maybe you should come to Canada instead. We're unarmed and yet somehow still manage to be VERY polite. "Tony Jester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UXD68.27358$[email hidden]...

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> The biggest problem with driving in America as I see it is the fact that > everything is so over-regulated. I don't think this will impact YOU > directly, but understand it does radically change the abilities of > Americans. I'm mean, it would affect you if you stayed here long enough, > but doesn't sound like you will. > > What I mean is, in America, the government is doing everything in its

power

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> to remove any decision making responsibility from the driver. Most of the > time, you don't have to think about what you're doing because you have all > kinds of "aids" to help you. I mean, you don't have to worry about is it > safe to pass because the stripe in the center of the road will tell you. > You don't have to worry about is it safe to turn left, because the traffic > arrow will tell you. You don't have to worry about is it safe to go thru > the intersection, because either there is a light or they are all being > converted to 4-way stop. You don't have to worry about how safe to go

thru > a turn, because the corner speed is marked. You don't have to worry about > how fast to go straight, because the speed limit is posted. You don'thave

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> to worry about can I get on the freeway because it is metered. I guess in > theory this might be safer (in the mind of your average moronic bureaucrat > anyway) but in practice it results in a very noticable degradation in > driving ability and turns drivers into pre-programmed robots that have a > very hard time dealing with any situation that is somehow "out of the > ordinary". > > So here is the problem: *You* (Liddle) are driving down the road. *You* > (Liddle) approach one of the few intersections that is not 4-way stop.

Say > it is 2-way, or 3-way (the worst) . You notice it for what it is, a 3-way > stop (because in Europe you have to pay attention to this kind of thing). > You notice you are not required to stop, but the other drivers are. BUTthe > American moron already stopped at the same intersection at a 90 degreeangle > from you is so programed by all the 4-way stops he's so used to, he just*as > sumes* you will stop and pulls right out right in front of you. YouT-bone > him. > > That's just an example. The point is they're trying to turn us intocattle

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> and we're beginning to respond. So when you get here, just remember to > drive like everybody else is a cow and you should be OK. > > -Tony- > > P.S. Better make that an *armed* cow. Remember, an armed society is a > POLITE society. I'm sure you'll do fine, just remember to mind your > manners. > > > "Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:lCB68.9501$[email hidden]... > > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > > > > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are

honeymooning

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> in > > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. > > > > Does anyone know of any simulation which would be reasonable for driving > > around the streets of a californian city? I've tried downloading Driver > (1) > > for the PC, but for some reason the controls (I have USB keyboard &

mouse) > > are erratic - they keep 'sticking', and 'lagging'... odd behaviour.Apart > > from that - the LA driving in "Driver" is perfect :) > > > > Does anyone know of a replacement sim for US (right hand side of theroad)

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> > driving? Preferably one with traffic lights, and LA or San Diego maps > would > > be a bonus! > > > > Many thanks in advance, > > > > > > -- > > Liddle Feesh > > ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ > > (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Rob Adams" wrote: > Hey Liddle? Maybe you should come to Canada instead. We're unarmed and yet > somehow still manage to be VERY polite. Hey, my finace� comes from Canada, I hear lots of wonderful things about it! -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

"Tony Jester" wrote: > The biggest problem with driving in America as I see it is the fact that > everything is so over-regulated. I don't think this will impact YOU > directly, but understand it does radically change the abilities of > Americans. I'm mean, it would affect you if you stayed here long enough, > but doesn't sound like you will. I don't have any long-term plans, I've been to America once before - but I never really paid much attention to the driving. I didn't drive. > What I mean is, in America, the government is doing everything in itspower > to remove any decision making responsibility from the driver. Most of the > time, you don't have to think about what you're doing because you have all > kinds of "aids" to help you. I mean, you don't have to worry about is it > safe to pass because the stripe in the center of the road will tell you. Kewl. > You don't have to worry about is it safe to turn left, because the traffic > arrow will tell you. You don't have to worry about is it safe to go thru > the intersection, because either there is a light or they are all being > converted to 4-way stop. You don't have to worry about how safe to gothru > a turn, because the corner speed is marked. You don't have to worry about > how fast to go straight, because the speed limit is posted. It is posted in Kilometers/Hour isn't it? What confuses me is the traffic lights. Anyone got a good website or something to explain how those damn things work? Lots of lights dangling over lanes... can you signal to move from lande to lane as you do in Europe?

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> You don't have > to worry about can I get on the freeway because it is metered. I guess in > theory this might be safer (in the mind of your average moronic bureaucrat > anyway) but in practice it results in a very noticable degradation in > driving ability and turns drivers into pre-programmed robots that have a > very hard time dealing with any situation that is somehow "out of the > ordinary".

Do you have multi-storey car parks? Conventional day-to-day driving in the UK requires (me at least) to navigate some horrendous country lanes (often less than a car and a half wide), up to dual carriageways (freeways) and motorways (interstates). I've driven in France before, that's was a bit of a knightmare... Fun, but strange... > So here is the problem: *You* (Liddle) are driving down the road. *You* > (Liddle) approach one of the few intersections that is not 4-way stop.Say > it is 2-way, or 3-way (the worst) . You notice it for what it is, a 3-way > stop (because in Europe you have to pay attention to this kind of thing). > You notice you are not required to stop, but the other drivers are. BUTthe > American moron already stopped at the same intersection at a 90 degreeangle > from you is so programed by all the 4-way stops he's so used to, he just*as > sumes* you will stop and pulls right out right in front of you. YouT-bone > him. How do I know when I am required to stop? In England we have double dashed lines, and >stop< signs... What are your car parks like? > That's just an example. The point is they're trying to turn us intocattle > and we're beginning to respond. So when you get here, just remember to > drive like everybody else is a cow and you should be OK. Hehe, Fast cows. > -Tony- > > P.S. Better make that an *armed* cow. Remember, an armed society is a > POLITE society. I'm sure you'll do fine, just remember to mind your > manners. Politeness switched on :) -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

Liddle Feesh <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:lCB68.9501$[email hidden]... > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) Is that anything like a 'hoopy frood'? ;-) > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are honeymooning in > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. Well, it terms of driving 'on the wrong side', I've taken my RHD car to both France and Belgium and it quickly comes pretty naturally - even roundabouts are fine. The only problems I've had, have come when I've got lost and done a three-point turn - then set off on my merry way on the left hand side of the road again! Oh yes - the other thing you might have to watch for in the States is that 'right on red' rule; at least it's not as dozy as the French 'priorite a droite'! As for LHD cars: I get to find out about that when I go to Italy in a few months :-) Jonny

Midtown Madness 1 or 2 is good for learning to drive on the wrong side of the road in the right country. Or is that right side of the road in the wrong country ?

A couple interesting things to keep in mind that are different: - Speeds are in miles per hour (are they in kmh in the UK?) - (!) You are allowed to turn right at a red light after having come to a complete stop at the light. (!) - You are allowed to turn left at a red light if you are in a one-way street going onto a one-way-street. - Pedestrians have the right of way and, unlike some places in Europe that I've been to, it's not uncommon for people to simply step in front of your car, especially if you are driving slowly. - (!) People are allowed to pass you on the right (!) (like passing on the left in the UK I suppose). Phil

"Phil Teschner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > - (!) People are allowed to pass you on the right (!) (like > passing on the left in the UK I suppose). A bit of clarification: this is on multi-lane roads. You don't have to expect somebody to come roaring past you on the shoulder. At least it's unlikely, anyway.

Liddle Feesh wrote: > > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are honeymooning in > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. The way to get killed is to look right - left - right before moving out into traffic. Here, with oncoming traffic from the left we look left - right - left. I understand that several American tourists are lost each year in England to the opposite problem... (At least according to that authority on European traffic: author Tom Clancy ;) - Matt

> Midtown Madness 2 might be some of what you're looking for. It does have > traffic lights, but the general theme of the game is to DISOBEY alltraffic > laws. So ignore the other drivers, they are even more idiotic than mostreal > life drivers. Having driven in the States and played MM2 a lot, I must respectfully disagree. -Phasor

Sierra produced Drivers Ed 98, I cant seem to find a web page for it anymore though. Look around you might be able to find it :) Charlie

Liddle Feesh ([email hidden]) wrote on 01 Feb 2002: > That's comforting to know. Those roundabouts - there's one in > Florida - a famous one, for accident blackspots! It's on the net > somewhere.... Orlando? I read somewhere that it had become something of a tourist attraction for visitors from Europe... -- "After all, a mere thousand yards... such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh. The GPL Scrapyard: bits 'n' bobs at http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

Phil Teschner ([email hidden]) wrote on 02 Feb 2002: > A couple interesting things to keep in mind that are different: > - Speeds are in miles per hour (are they in kmh in the UK?)<snip> Nope - we're still not metric on roadsigns. (Ireland uses mph *and* km/h!) -- "After all, a mere thousand yards... such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh. The GPL Scrapyard: bits 'n' bobs at http://www.hillclimbfan.f2s.com

Liddle Feesh wrote:

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> > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are honeymooning in > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. > > Does anyone know of any simulation which would be reasonable for driving > around the streets of a californian city? I've tried downloading Driver (1) > for the PC, but for some reason the controls (I have USB keyboard & mouse) > are erratic - they keep 'sticking', and 'lagging'... odd behaviour. Apart > from that - the LA driving in "Driver" is perfect :) > > Does anyone know of a replacement sim for US (right hand side of the road) > driving? Preferably one with traffic lights, and LA or San Diego maps would > be a bonus! > > Many thanks in advance, > > -- > Liddle Feesh > ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ > (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

I wouldn't worry too much about getting the hang of driving on "the wrong side" of the car and the road. I went to New Zealand a few years ago and managed to get myself around Christchurch and the South Island without any problems. As I recall, I adjusted pretty quickly. I just made sure I had good maps and I knew my route before going anywhere. As far as traffic lights and signage, most of it was familiar, and what wasn't I figured out soon enough. Of course, driving in NZ is a whole lot different than driving in Southern California. Even now, I'd be intimidated driving around any of the major cities in California. FWIW, I'm planning on coming to the UK the first week of April to attend a convention in the Bristol, area. I'm scared shitless at the thought of driving a car out of Gatwick or Heathrow. (My experiences at Chicago's O'Hare airport is the primary reason for my fears. I'll be flying out of Milwaukee this time.) I guess I'll just drive like I'm at Silverstone... isn't that an old airport? Wish me luck :-) Gary Stephenson

"Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:lCB68.9501$[email hidden]... > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are honeymooningin > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. If you can drive in the UK ok then you can drive anywhere. UK drivers are madmen compared to here.

"Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:U3G68.2625$Qq1.12789@shaw-ty2... > A bit of clarification: this is on multi-lane roads. You don't have to > expect somebody to come roaring past you on the shoulder. At least it's > unlikely, anyway. Yea, but passing on the right is a real bad habit that some people have.

"Zardoz" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> "Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:lCB68.9501$[email hidden]... > > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > > > > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are honeymooning > in > > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. > > If you can drive in the UK ok then you can drive anywhere. UK drivers are > madmen compared to here.

UK drivers are madmen compared to everywhere. especially the motorbike variety. -- Gunnar #31 SUCKS#015 Tupperware MC#002 DoD#0x1B DoDRT#003 DoD:CT#4,8 Kibo�: 2 gnus don't kill people. gnus-summary-lower-score kills people.

"Gunnar Horrigmo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > UK drivers are madmen compared to everywhere. especially the > motorbike variety. Especialy the ones in London. Crossing a street in London is a close brush with death.

Usually caused by another bad habit; people driving below the speed of the general traffic flow, blithely ensconced in the left "passing" lane. Who then get annoyed when streams of cars go by on their right when a hole opens in the traffic snarl THEY created. Guess that's what comes when driving is viewed as a right instead of a privilege. Welcome to America! ;-) SB "Zardoz" <[email hidden]> wrote... > Yea, but passing on the right is a real bad habit that some people have.

"Gary Stephenson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > FWIW, I'm planning on coming to the UK the first week of April to attend > a convention in the Bristol, area. I'm scared shitless at the thought of > driving a car out of Gatwick or Heathrow. (My experiences at Chicago's > O'Hare airport is the primary reason for my fears. I'll be flying out of > Milwaukee this time.) I guess I'll just drive like I'm at Silverstone... > isn't that an old airport? > > Wish me luck :-) > > Gary Stephenson

I'd just like to say that if you are driving in or around London, the rest of the UK doesn't drive quite like that ;-) If you can survive the M25 and still be sane, you'll have achieved something. Pat. Southampton, UK.

In article <cZP68.1241$[email hidden]>, "Zardoz" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>"Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:U3G68.2625$Qq1.12789@shaw-ty2... >> A bit of clarification: this is on multi-lane roads. You don't have to >> expect somebody to come roaring past you on the shoulder. At least it's >> unlikely, anyway. > >Yea, but passing on the right is a real bad habit that some people have.

You mean passing on the right, as in going around somebody who's in the left lane, but driving slower than everyone else on the road? If they won't yield to faster traffic, then you HAVE to go around them on the right. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Gary Stephenson" wrote: [snip] Thanks for your comments - very helpful (same to everyone else whom I haven't replied to yet!) > FWIW, I'm planning on coming to the UK the first week of April to attend > a convention in the Bristol, area. I'm scared shitless at the thought of > driving a car out of Gatwick or Heathrow. (My experiences at Chicago's > O'Hare airport is the primary reason for my fears. I'll be flying out of > Milwaukee this time.) I guess I'll just drive like I'm at Silverstone... > isn't that an old airport? Silverstone? Not sure. Driving a car out of Heathrow is considerably easier than driving out of Gatwick, since with Gatwick - it is far easier to end up in London or Brighton if you miss the turning for the M25. The actual 'driving' is pretty easy. The roads are wide (ish) and well marked. Getting in and out of the airport is REALLY SIMPLE, especially for Heathrow. Gatwick again, just be careful when you come out you are in the right lane for the way you want to go (this is signposted at least twice, and written on the road too!) If you get the wrong one, you can turn round at the next junction anyway. Easy. -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply) > > Wish me luck :-) > > Gary Stephenson

"Zardoz" wrote: > If you can drive in the UK ok then you can drive anywhere. UK drivers are > madmen compared to here. :) Although I hear the speed limits are far slower in the states. -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

"Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:lCB68.9501$[email hidden]... > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are honeymooningin > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. > > Does anyone know of any simulation which would be reasonable for driving > around the streets of a californian city? I've tried downloading Driver(1) > for the PC, but for some reason the controls (I have USB keyboard & mouse) > are erratic - they keep 'sticking', and 'lagging'... odd behaviour. Apart > from that - the LA driving in "Driver" is perfect :) > > Does anyone know of a replacement sim for US (right hand side of the road) > driving? Preferably one with traffic lights, and LA or San Diego mapswould > be a bonus! > > Many thanks in advance, > I don't know of any actual "drivers education" type sims other than the one Sierra did in about '98 that was mentioned below. What may help you out some is to read the actual drivers handbook that is used to teach drivers here what to do. You may find one online for the state of California - try their Department of Motor Vehicles. The North Carolina handbook is online, and that should give you a good idea about signage and traffic signals and other basic information, most of which will be very close if not identical to what you'll find in California. You can find this at: http://www.dmv.dot.state.nc.us/driverlicense/DriversHandbook/ Hope that helps! -- 9/11/01....Never forget Ken

EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <cZP68.1241$[email hidden]>, "Zardoz" <[email hidden]> > writes: > > >"Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:U3G68.2625$Qq1.12789@shaw-ty2... > >> A bit of clarification: this is on multi-lane roads. You don't have to > >> expect somebody to come roaring past you on the shoulder. At least it's > >> unlikely, anyway. > > > >Yea, but passing on the right is a real bad habit that some people have. > > You mean passing on the right, as in going around somebody who's in the left > lane, but driving slower than everyone else on the road? If they won't yield > to faster traffic, then you HAVE to go around them on the right.

Nah. That's why God gave you a horn & a finger! :-) -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

[email hidden]... > EldredP wrote: > > > > > You mean passing on the right, as in going around somebody who's inthe left > > lane, but driving slower than everyone else on the road? If they won'tyield > > to faster traffic, then you HAVE to go around them on the right. > > > Nah. That's why God gave you a horn & a finger! :-) I just read about a Car Magazine journalist who got two tickets on one trip, and the 2nd was for passing a slow driver AFTER that car had parralled a semi truck for many miles. Not everystate allows you to pass a left lane turtle by using the right lane. At least in Washington ST, they will occasionally ticket somebody if he's holding up a long line of cars...but that's pretty rare. dave henrie

Liddle Feesh wrote:

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> > "Gary Stephenson" wrote: > > [snip] > Thanks for your comments - very helpful (same to everyone else whom I > haven't replied to yet!) > > > FWIW, I'm planning on coming to the UK the first week of April to attend > > a convention in the Bristol, area. I'm scared shitless at the thought of > > driving a car out of Gatwick or Heathrow. (My experiences at Chicago's > > O'Hare airport is the primary reason for my fears. I'll be flying out of > > Milwaukee this time.) I guess I'll just drive like I'm at Silverstone... > > isn't that an old airport? > > Silverstone? Not sure. Driving a car out of Heathrow is considerably easier > than driving out of Gatwick, since with Gatwick - it is far easier to end up > in London or Brighton if you miss the turning for the M25. > > The actual 'driving' is pretty easy. The roads are wide (ish) and well > marked. Getting in and out of the airport is REALLY SIMPLE, especially for > Heathrow. > > Gatwick again, just be careful when you come out you are in the right lane > for the way you want to go (this is signposted at least twice, and written > on the road too!) If you get the wrong one, you can turn round at the next > junction anyway.

Damn...I'm flying into Gatwick. Guess I'll have to take my own advice and know where I'm going and drive alert. Thanks, Gary

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:sbZ68.25543$[email hidden]... > Usually caused by another bad habit; people driving below the speed of thegeneral traffic flow, blithely ensconced in the left > "passing" lane. Who then get annoyed when streams of cars go by on theirright when a hole opens in the traffic snarl THEY created. > Guess that's what comes when driving is viewed as a right instead of aprivilege. Welcome to America! ;-) > Yea, those people are usually driving along while talking on their cell phone oblivious to the traffic around them. Some people should just not be allowed to have a license.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > You mean passing on the right, as in going around somebody who's in theleft > lane, but driving slower than everyone else on the road? If they won'tyield > to faster traffic, then you HAVE to go around them on the right. That is one scenario. There is also the madman speeder who weaves in and out. passing left and right just so they can reach their destination one minute quicker. I have to drive on the 401, which is said to be the busiest stretch of highway in NA, and have to deal with these people all the time. Some people are too intimitated by the 401 to even go on it and I have to admit that the bad habits of some drivers make it a bad place to be.

Pat wrote:

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> > "Gary Stephenson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > FWIW, I'm planning on coming to the UK the first week of April to attend > > a convention in the Bristol, area. I'm scared shitless at the thought of > > driving a car out of Gatwick or Heathrow. (My experiences at Chicago's > > O'Hare airport is the primary reason for my fears. I'll be flying out of > > Milwaukee this time.) I guess I'll just drive like I'm at Silverstone... > > isn't that an old airport? > > > > Wish me luck :-) > > > > Gary Stephenson > > I'd just like to say that if you are driving in or around London, the rest > of the UK doesn't drive quite like that ;-) > > If you can survive the M25 and still be sane, you'll have achieved > something. > > Pat. > Southampton, UK.

Quit it...you're frightening me!

In article <vca78.1337$[email hidden]>, "Zardoz" <[email hidden]> writes: >That is one scenario. There is also the madman speeder who weaves in and >out. passing left and right just so they can reach their destination one >minute quicker. I have to drive on the 401, which is said to be the busiest >stretch of highway in NA, and have to deal with these people all the time. >Some people are too intimitated by the 401 to even go on it and I have to >admit that the bad habits of some drivers make it a bad place to be. The 401 going to Toronto? I've driven that a few times - I didn't think it was that bad... Maybe I'm one of the madmen you're talking about...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> writes:

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>> You mean passing on the right, as in going around somebody who's in the >left >> lane, but driving slower than everyone else on the road? If they won't >yield >> to faster traffic, then you HAVE to go around them on the right. > > >Nah. That's why God gave you a horn & a finger! :-) >

I've read somewhere that it's improper to use the horn to get someone like that out of the way. Same with someone who doesn't make the right turn on red. If you honk at someone, and a cop sees it, *you* might get a ticket... :( Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:DjE68.9932$[email hidden]... > "Tony Jester" wrote: > > The biggest problem with driving in America as I see it is the fact that > > everything is so over-regulated. I don't think this will impact YOU > > directly, but understand it does radically change the abilities of > > Americans. I'm mean, it would affect you if you stayed here longenough,

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> > but doesn't sound like you will. > > I don't have any long-term plans, I've been to America once before - but I > never really paid much attention to the driving. I didn't drive. > > > What I mean is, in America, the government is doing everything in its > power > > to remove any decision making responsibility from the driver. Most of

the > > time, you don't have to think about what you're doing because you haveall > > kinds of "aids" to help you. I mean, you don't have to worry about isit > > safe to pass because the stripe in the center of the road will tell you. > > Kewl. > > > You don't have to worry about is it safe to turn left, because thetraffic > > arrow will tell you. You don't have to worry about is it safe to gothru > > the intersection, because either there is a light or they are all being > > converted to 4-way stop. You don't have to worry about how safe to go > thru > > a turn, because the corner speed is marked. You don't have to worryabout

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> > how fast to go straight, because the speed limit is posted. > > It is posted in Kilometers/Hour isn't it? > > What confuses me is the traffic lights. Anyone got a good website or > something to explain how those damn things work? Lots of lights dangling > over lanes... can you signal to move from lande to lane as you do in

Europe? Nope, in Miles per hour. We Yanks don't use the metric system unless we're in a Science class or something ;) Traffic lights are easy. When the light is green, you go, when the light is yellow, you put the pedal to the floor and try to beat the red light ;) (Just kidding, but that's what everyone does. Yellow is a warning that Red is coming soon, so you should prepare to stop if you're far away) The red light is stop, but you can make a right turn with traffic (when your light is red, the other is green and vise-versa) and on one-way streets going left you can make a left turn with traffic. If it isn't a one way street, you must wait for the green light to turn left. > > > You don't have > > to worry about can I get on the freeway because it is metered. I guessin > > theory this might be safer (in the mind of your average moronicbureaucrat

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> > anyway) but in practice it results in a very noticable degradation in > > driving ability and turns drivers into pre-programmed robots that have a > > very hard time dealing with any situation that is somehow "out of the > > ordinary". > > Do you have multi-storey car parks? Conventional day-to-day driving in the > UK requires (me at least) to navigate some horrendous country lanes (often > less than a car and a half wide), up to dual carriageways (freeways) and > motorways (interstates). I've driven in France before, that's was a bit of

a > knightmare... Fun, but strange... Never heard of these, basically all the roads you will see that aren't highways are full 2 lane, smooth roads. Even the roads in the forest are being converted to these. > > > So here is the problem: *You* (Liddle) are driving down the road.*You* > > (Liddle) approach one of the few intersections that is not 4-way stop. > Say > > it is 2-way, or 3-way (the worst) . You notice it for what it is, a3-way > > stop (because in Europe you have to pay attention to this kind ofthing).

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> > You notice you are not required to stop, but the other drivers are. BUT > the > > American moron already stopped at the same intersection at a 90 degree > angle > > from you is so programed by all the 4-way stops he's so used to, he just > *as > > sumes* you will stop and pulls right out right in front of you. You > T-bone > > him. > > How do I know when I am required to stop? In England we have double dashed > lines, and >stop< signs... What are your car parks like?

We have stop signs, and cross walks your supposed to stop behind, so pedestrians can cross the street safely. There are also traffic lights.

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> > > That's just an example. The point is they're trying to turn us into > cattle > > and we're beginning to respond. So when you get here, just remember to > > drive like everybody else is a cow and you should be OK. > > Hehe, Fast cows. > > > -Tony- > > > > P.S. Better make that an *armed* cow. Remember, an armed society is a > > POLITE society. I'm sure you'll do fine, just remember to mind your > > manners. > > Politeness switched on :) > > > -- > Liddle Feesh > ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ > (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply) > > > >

think we dont use the metric system ? engine sizes in american cars are listed as litres instead of CID anymore. and take a good ol american socket set under the hood of that same american car and see how many bolts they actually fit !! :) how about those 2 litre bottles of soda that festoon the store shelves ? its easier to subtract 25mm from 12cm than it is to subtract 3/8 from 27/64ths anyway.. heheeee

The 401 near Toronto is pretty much a constant jam-up, all day long. Yes, there is too much traffic caused by unending suburban sprawl, but at least half of the problem is caused by ignorance of the rules of the road and ignorance toward fellow drivers. So long as people can't follow a simple pattern like keep right except to pass and can't learn to merge with moving traffic properly, we will have chaos and walking-pace driving on our expressways. You can either become road raged at the morons blocking your way or turn into a dazed zombie and start eating, shaving, blabbering on your phone, paying attention to your music, half sleeping, etc., which regular commuters tend to do since they don't want to burst a blood vessel each and every day. I use the subway most of the time, but do have to drive the highways of this city usually one day a week...I would rather live in a closet than have to commute from the burbs through that congestion and stupidity twice a day. There are crazy drivers who weave in and out and make a nuisance of themselves--about .1% of the cars do that. They are trying to get around the 50% who are asleep at the wheel blocking the way. The other 49.9%, within which I count myself, are stuck just trying to escape as quickly as possible. Even during off hours, when the traffic is much lighter, it only takes one or two of the morons travelling beside a truck or two to jam up the whole road for quite a distance back...of course causing all sorts of potential accidents in the process. "But I am driving the speed limit or less" is their rationale that allows them to ignore all others on the road. If I were in charge, we would adopt Germany's driving licence test and system. Honest to god, 90% of the people in Toronto and Detroit would lose their license. The difference between Europe and here is that bad... Marc "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <vca78.1337$[email hidden]>, "Zardoz"<[email hidden]> > writes: > > >That is one scenario. There is also the madman speeder who weaves in and > >out. passing left and right just so they can reach their destination one > >minute quicker. I have to drive on the 401, which is said to be thebusiest > >stretch of highway in NA, and have to deal with these people all thetime. > >Some people are too intimitated by the 401 to even go on it and I have to > >admit that the bad habits of some drivers make it a bad place to be. > > The 401 going to Toronto? I've driven that a few times - I didn't thinkit was

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> that bad... > Maybe I'm one of the madmen you're talking about...<g> > > Eldred > -- > Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > GPLRank - under construction... > > Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats

you > with experience... > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Gary Stephenson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Pat wrote: > > > > I'd just like to say that if you are driving in or around London, therest

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> > of the UK doesn't drive quite like that ;-) > > > > If you can survive the M25 and still be sane, you'll have achieved > > something. > > > > Pat. > > Southampton, UK. > > Quit it...you're frightening me!

Seriously though, I don't think either you or the original poster will have trouble adapting to each other's situations. The basic concept is the same - clutch on the left, brake in the middle, accelerator on the right, big wheel to manouvre with, no problem :-) Just take it slow at first, until you get used to being on the other side of the road anyway... FYI even though the motorway speed limit is 70mph most people drive at 80 or 90 in the right-hand lanes, but I wouldn't do that until you clear London as there are speed cameras on the M25 now (the M25 is the motorway which circulates the capital). Pat.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <vca78.1337$[email hidden]>, "Zardoz"<[email hidden]> > writes: > The 401 going to Toronto? I've driven that a few times - I didn't thinkit was > that bad... Through TO during rush hour? It's horrendous. http://www.city.toronto.on.ca/toronto_overview/transportation.htm Highway 401, an east-west highway that facilitates travel to the north of Toronto, is one of the three busiest freeways in North America. Approximately 300,000 vehicles travel on it on an average weekday. http://www.urban-renaissance.org/urbanren/index.cfm?DSP=content&ContentID=17 66 He's planning to relieve congestion on Highway 401, the world's busiest highway, by building a parallel route north of Highway 407. > Maybe I'm one of the madmen you're talking about...<g> Yea, that's why you are defending passing on the right. I bet you even drive up on the shoulder to get by someone on the right.:-)

"Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qe078.22546$[email hidden]... > "Zardoz" wrote: > :) Although I hear the speed limits are far slower in the states. I'm not sure what the speed limit is in the U.S. now. Canada (depending on province) is 100km/h on highways, 50km/h city streets (sometimes 60), 80km/h country roads. But most do 10-20km/h above posted limit. I think US raised it again, it was low for a long time due to the energy crisis in the '70's. They just never raised it after the crisis was over.

"Gary Stephenson" wrote:

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> Liddle Feesh wrote: > > > > "Gary Stephenson" wrote: > > > > [snip] > > Thanks for your comments - very helpful (same to everyone else whom I > > haven't replied to yet!) > > > > > FWIW, I'm planning on coming to the UK the first week of April to

attend > > > a convention in the Bristol, area. I'm scared shitless at the thoughtof > > > driving a car out of Gatwick or Heathrow. (My experiences at Chicago's > > > O'Hare airport is the primary reason for my fears. I'll be flying outof > > > Milwaukee this time.) I guess I'll just drive like I'm atSilverstone... > > > isn't that an old airport? > > > > Silverstone? Not sure. Driving a car out of Heathrow is considerablyeasier > > than driving out of Gatwick, since with Gatwick - it is far easier toend up > > in London or Brighton if you miss the turning for the M25. > > > > The actual 'driving' is pretty easy. The roads are wide (ish) and well > > marked. Getting in and out of the airport is REALLY SIMPLE, especiallyfor > > Heathrow. > > > > Gatwick again, just be careful when you come out you are in the rightlane > > for the way you want to go (this is signposted at least twice, andwritten > > on the road too!) If you get the wrong one, you can turn round at thenext > > junction anyway. > > Damn...I'm flying into Gatwick. Guess I'll have to take my own advice > and know where I'm going and drive alert. Yes, as what Pat said is true - you'll be fine. Gatwick is a tad harder, but nothing to worry about. When you come out of Gatwick you may be faced with 4 or 2 lane motorways (fast roads). Everyone in England speeds by 10% or so, but I should stick to the limits as close as you can, and keep to the left. Although the right hand lane is strictly for overtaking you usually just get people crusing at 80-90 down there anyway. All you should practice is the point at which you come up to a 'slip road' which is joining your motorway. If this is the case, check your blind spot (over your right shoulder) and switch to the right hand lane to allow people joining the motorway to join safely. It's quite easy really. Play some of your favourite music and have fun! -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

Perfect, thanks! -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

Ok, guys he is going to San Diego! The area alone will make you happy and glad to be alive. I loved the place when I visited. I assUme you will be renting a car, it will be an automatic, so you will not have to worry about shifting. Also many rental cars in the US have these Day Time Running Lights, but there is no real standard on the things so be sure to understand the lights on the car you get. When I was there I got a Chevy Malibu (upgrade to mid-class, yeah right!) and it had the lights on all the time no matter how the switch was. I also paid the $9/day for the liabiliaty insurance, this pays your insurance liability if you have an acident. It was nice to be able to close my eyes and floor it, to get on to the highway! Just kidding :-) I would say just do as the flow of traffic does, if they all do it, then it should be okay. I would adjust my speed to the speed that traffic was doing, ignore the speed limit unless that is what the majority of other cars are doing. I took my GPS, a good map and my wife and I were fine. All of the major trafic signs are the same, just have unneeded words on them. Be sure to learn Spanish before you go. :-0 SLG "Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > >I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are honeymooning in >San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally >from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. > >Does anyone know of any simulation which would be reasonable for driving >around the streets of a californian city? I've tried downloading Driver (1) >for the PC, but for some reason the controls (I have USB keyboard & mouse) >are erratic - they keep 'sticking', and 'lagging'... odd behaviour. Apart >from that - the LA driving in "Driver" is perfect :) > >Does anyone know of a replacement sim for US (right hand side of the road) >driving? Preferably one with traffic lights, and LA or San Diego maps would >be a bonus! > >Many thanks in advance, > > >-- >Liddle Feesh > ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ >(Remove UNDERPANTS to reply) > > > > > >

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)

In article <iCh78.1350$[email hidden]>, "Zardoz" <[email hidden]> writes: "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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>> In article <vca78.1337$[email hidden]>, "Zardoz" ><[email hidden]> >> writes: >> The 401 going to Toronto? I've driven that a few times - I didn't think >it was >> that bad... > >Through TO during rush hour? It's horrendous.

Yeah, I'd forgotten about that... >> Maybe I'm one of the madmen you're talking about...<g> > >Yea, that's why you are defending passing on the right. I bet you even drive >up on the shoulder to get by someone on the right.:-) Nah - that's a bit much.<g> But if the speed limit is 70, and a left lane hog is doing 65, I'm going to go around him. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <ROf78.1540$[email hidden]>, "Marc Collins" <[email hidden]> writes: >The 401 near Toronto is pretty much a constant jam-up, all day long. Yes, >there is too much traffic caused by unending suburban sprawl, but at least >half of the problem is caused by ignorance of the rules of the road and >ignorance toward fellow drivers. > I'd forgotten about the traffic jams. I've gotten into town at like 1 in the morning, and STILL hit a ton of traffic. Don't you guys ever SLEEP?!? :-) Going by the airport and coming into town are the worst - the rest of the trip usually isn't too bad. > >If I were in charge, we would adopt Germany's driving licence test and >system. Honest to god, 90% of the people in Toronto and Detroit would lose >their license. The difference between Europe and here is that bad... I've never been to Europe, and won't be able to go anytime soon. What's the Germany driving test? Got a link that describes it in English? Now I'm curious... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

EldredP wrote: > > >Yea, that's why you are defending passing on the right. I bet you even drive > >up on the shoulder to get by someone on the right.:-) > > Nah - that's a bit much.<g> But if the speed limit is 70, and a left lane hog > is doing 65, I'm going to go around him. DRAFT, son, DRAFT!! -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

EldredP wrote: > I've never been to Europe, and won't be able to go anytime soon. What's the > Germany driving test? Got a link that describes it in English? Now I'm > curious... I believe that to pass the German driving test you have to do a sub 8:00 minute lap at the Ring :-) Sorry...I couldn't help myself. If I can get my cousin to answer his emails, I'll ask him. (He lives there.) Gary Stephenson

In article <[email hidden]>, Gary Stephenson <[email hidden]> writes:

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>EldredP wrote: >> I've never been to Europe, and won't be able to go anytime soon. What's >the >> Germany driving test? Got a link that describes it in English? Now I'm >> curious... > >I believe that to pass the German driving test you have to do a sub 8:00 >minute lap at the Ring :-) > >Sorry...I couldn't help myself.

/me whacks Gary with a fish... Anybody else have any info? :-) Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Steve Garrotto" wrote: > Ok, guys he is going to San Diego! The area alone will make you happy > and glad to be alive. I loved the place when I visited. Sounds good! :) > I assUme you will be renting a car, it will be an automatic, Yes, we'll be renting, and I guess it'll be an automatic. > so you > will not have to worry about shifting. Also many rental cars in the US > have these Day Time Running Lights What is "Day Time Running Lights"? Is that where the headlights operate at night?

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> , but there is no real standard on > the things so be sure to understand the lights on the car you get. > When I was there I got a Chevy Malibu (upgrade to mid-class, yeah > right!) and it had the lights on all the time no matter how the switch > was. I also paid the $9/day for the liabiliaty insurance, this pays > your insurance liability if you have an acident. It was nice to be > able to close my eyes and floor it, to get on to the highway! Just > kidding :-)

:@) > I would say just do as the flow of traffic does, if they all do it, > then it should be okay. I would adjust my speed to the speed that > traffic was doing, ignore the speed limit unless that is what the > majority of other cars are doing. I took my GPS, a good map and my > wife and I were fine. Good good, that's put me at ease a tad. > All of the major trafic signs are the same, just have unneeded words > on them. > Be sure to learn Spanish before you go. :-0 Spanish?! -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 00:04:25 -0000, "Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote: >What is "Day Time Running Lights"? Is that where the headlights operate at >night? No, that is a safey feature where the lights run during the daytime too.

Liddle Feesh wrote: > > What is "Day Time Running Lights"? Is that where the headlights operate at > night? The headlamps operate anytime the ignition is in the on position. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

"Zardoz" wrote: > On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 00:04:25 -0000, "Liddle Feesh" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >What is "Day Time Running Lights"? Is that where the headlights operateat > >night? LOL @ myself! I means, "Is there where headlights operate automatically during the day?" > No, that is a safey feature where the lights run during the daytime > too. Safety feature = waste of battery power. -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

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> "Zardoz" wrote: > > On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 00:04:25 -0000, "Liddle Feesh" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >What is "Day Time Running Lights"? Is that where the headlights operate > at > > >night? > > No, that is a safey feature where the lights run during the daytime > > too. > > Safety feature = waste of battery power.

Maybe if you don't have an alternator, yeah. My Civic had daytime running lights and the battery lasted for 10 years. For all I know it's still going - I sold the car last year, with the original battery still in it.

Zardoz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 6 Feb 2002 00:04:25 -0000, "Liddle Feesh" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >What is "Day Time Running Lights"? Is that where the headlights operate at > >night? > > No, that is a safey feature where the lights run during the daytime > too.

or possibly a "safety" "feature", if you follow rec.autos.driving and the incessant complaints there about DRLs ;-) Jonny

"Rob Adams" wrote: > > Safety feature = waste of battery power. > > Maybe if you don't have an alternator, yeah. My Civic had daytime running > lights and the battery lasted for 10 years. For all I know it's still > going - I sold the car last year, with the original battery still in it. Are you absolutely serious? You must have been doing very long average journeys to get anywhere near that! Shelf life tends to be only within 2 to 3 years anyway! -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, Gary Stephenson <[email hidden]> > writes: > > >EldredP wrote: > >> I've never been to Europe, and won't be able to go anytime soon. What's > >the > >> Germany driving test? Got a link that describes it in English? Now I'm > >> curious... > > > >I believe that to pass the German driving test you have to do a sub 8:00 > >minute lap at the Ring :-) > > > >Sorry...I couldn't help myself. > > /me whacks Gary with a fish...

OUCH!!! You could have at least breaded it and served it with some chips! > > Anybody else have any info? :-) I'll try once more to get in touch with my cousin. He's been there for 20 years, so he should know. Gary Stephenson

"Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote: >"Steve Garrotto" wrote:Yes, Spanish. Didn't you know that is the offical language of the USA now? No really Mexico is very close. SLG

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> >> Be sure to learn Spanish before you go. :-0 > >Spanish?! > > >-- >Liddle Feesh > ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ >(Remove UNDERPANTS to reply) > > > >

(All spelling errors are intentional and are there to show new and improved ways of spelling old words. Grammatical errors are due to too many English classes/teachers)

"Liddle Feesh" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Qhm88.4952$[email hidden]... > "Rob Adams" wrote: > > > Safety feature = waste of battery power. > > > > Maybe if you don't have an alternator, yeah. My Civic had daytimerunning > > lights and the battery lasted for 10 years. For all I know it's still > > going - I sold the car last year, with the original battery still in it. > > Are you absolutely serious? You must have been doing very long average > journeys to get anywhere near that! Shelf life tends to be only within 2to > 3 years anyway! It was a Civic, after all - not exactly a high-powered car. And no air conditioning, monster stereo, or anything else to tax the battery. But in my current car (actually my wife's), a Geo Tracker, the battery is now 9 years old with no sign of problems. That car has daytime running lights too. If you are having to replace batteries in your car every 2-3 years, something's wrong.

"Rob Adams" wrote: > If you are having to replace batteries in your car every 2-3 years, > something's wrong. You haven't had to live and work in the UK (I assume)... Here, average journeys are much smaller, in stop-start traffic - so alternators rarely get the chance to allow the charge in the battery to 'break even'. DRL wouldn't work here in the UK, hence the reason why we don't use them. The average journey for a car is still 3 miles - as suggested by the census data (URL lost somewhere in my favourites), and since it takes a good long stretch to get the battery charged, a good set of jump leads should be in everyones boot. -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

In article <CLy88.3419$7n.8738@shaw-ty1>, "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>It was a Civic, after all - not exactly a high-powered car. And no air >conditioning, monster stereo, or anything else to tax the battery. But in my >current car (actually my wife's), a Geo Tracker, the battery is now 9 years >old with no sign of problems. That car has daytime running lights too. > >If you are having to replace batteries in your car every 2-3 years, >something's wrong.

Must just be marketing, then - the commercials(and car magazines) suggest changing after 4 or 5 years. I agree that 2 or 3 years suggests a problem. Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" wrote: > In article <CLy88.3419$7n.8738@shaw-ty1>, "Rob Adams" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >It was a Civic, after all - not exactly a high-powered car. And no air > >conditioning, monster stereo, or anything else to tax the battery. But inmy > >current car (actually my wife's), a Geo Tracker, the battery is now 9years

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> >old with no sign of problems. That car has daytime running lights too. > > > >If you are having to replace batteries in your car every 2-3 years, > >something's wrong. > > Must just be marketing, then - the commercials(and car magazines) suggest > changing after 4 or 5 years. I agree that 2 or 3 years suggests a

problem. Hey Eldred-dude - did u read my other post? Take Care, ;) -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

Liddle Feesh wrote:

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> > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� are honeymooning in > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. > > Does anyone know of any simulation which would be reasonable for driving > around the streets of a californian city? I've tried downloading Driver (1) > for the PC, but for some reason the controls (I have USB keyboard & mouse) > are erratic - they keep 'sticking', and 'lagging'... odd behaviour. Apart > from that - the LA driving in "Driver" is perfect :) > > Does anyone know of a replacement sim for US (right hand side of the road) > driving? Preferably one with traffic lights, and LA or San Diego maps would > be a bonus! > > Many thanks in advance,

Things to watch out for when driving in America. :) Fortunately we don't have those crazy idiot white delivery van drivers. However we do have pickup trucks! The bigger the pickup truck, the lower the driver's IQ must be. ;) Beware the Dodge RAM, especially if it's a crew cab (four door) with dual rear wheels and towing a trailer. Those a-holes are the worst tailgaters. They also like to "play" with the cars. Get behind one on a stretch of no passing (double yellow line) road and they'll drive 10 or 15 MPH below the limit then when you get to a place to pass they floor the gas. If you do manage to pass they try to "push" you. IMHO, that sort of behavior should carry at least a six month driving ban and compulsory re-education on how to drive properly! The semi truck drivers are almost as bad. Be careful of the "right turn on red" rule. Some states don't allow it at all. To be safe, never ever try it unless there is a sign that says it's allowed. Some intersections have a right turn bypass leading into a short merging lane. Take that and DON'T stop. Remember to reverse the way you normally look for traffic at crossroads. :) Many a visitor from the UK, AU, NZ and JP has been broadsided because they looked to the right last instead of to the left last. Drive the speed limit, not over, not under. If some a-hole wants to tailgate, scoot over to the right and let the nutcase pass. If the nutcase won't pass, pull onto the shoulder and stop. If the nutcase stops too, FLOOR IT AND RUN! :) We don't have as many "big brother" cameras as you do in the UK, but they are cropping up in the bigger cities. (Didn't anyone remember to tell the UK gov. that "1984" is NOT a how-to book on running a country?)

"Gregg E." wrote: > Liddle Feesh wrote: > > > > Hi all, hope this is the right froup to ask :) > > > > I'm getting married this year, and myself and my fiance� arehoneymooning in > > San Diego, California. We are both from England (finance� was originally > > from Canada), but are a wee bit anxious about driving in the 'states. > > > > Does anyone know of any simulation which would be reasonable for driving > > around the streets of a californian city? I've tried downloading Driver(1) > > for the PC, but for some reason the controls (I have USB keyboard &mouse) > > are erratic - they keep 'sticking', and 'lagging'... odd behaviour.Apart > > from that - the LA driving in "Driver" is perfect :) > > > > Does anyone know of a replacement sim for US (right hand side of theroad) > > driving? Preferably one with traffic lights, and LA or San Diego mapswould

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> > be a bonus! > > > > Many thanks in advance, > > Things to watch out for when driving in America. :) > > Fortunately we don't have those crazy idiot white delivery van > drivers.

Ugh - those? I swear every one of those drivers is a complete accident waiting to happen.

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> However we do have pickup trucks! The bigger the pickup > truck, the lower the driver's IQ must be. ;) Beware the Dodge RAM, > especially if it's a crew cab (four door) with dual rear wheels > and towing a trailer. Those a-holes are the worst tailgaters. > They also like to "play" with the cars. Get behind one on a stretch > of no passing (double yellow line) road and they'll drive 10 or > 15 MPH below the limit then when you get to a place to pass they > floor the gas. If you do manage to pass they try to "push" you.

Best way to deal with it? To be honest, in the UK you can't get away with that sort of behaviour for long. Plus there are many routes to a location, so pulling away in another direction is usually quite easy.

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> IMHO, that sort of behavior should carry at least a six month > driving ban and compulsory re-education on how to drive properly! > > The semi truck drivers are almost as bad. > > Be careful of the "right turn on red" rule. Some states don't > allow it at all. To be safe, never ever try it unless there is > a sign that says it's allowed. Some intersections have a right > turn bypass leading into a short merging lane. Take that and > DON'T stop.

Ok :) > Remember to reverse the way you normally look for traffic > at crossroads. :) Many a visitor from the UK, AU, NZ and > JP has been broadsided because they looked to the right > last instead of to the left last. Noted. Thanks. > Drive the speed limit, not over, not under. If some a-hole > wants to tailgate, scoot over to the right and let the > nutcase pass. If the nutcase won't pass, pull onto the shoulder > and stop. If the nutcase stops too, FLOOR IT AND RUN! :) Is this a regular occurance? That's kinda worrying! Usually, anyone who tails in the UK is pretty happy if you move over to let the idiot pass. > We don't have as many "big brother" cameras as you do in the > UK, but they are cropping up in the bigger cities. > (Didn't anyone remember to tell the UK gov. that "1984" > is NOT a how-to book on running a country?) Those cameras are brilliant! They are practically everywhere, and it's highly unlikely you are driving anywhere outside of the cover of one of these cams esp. in the area where I live. Do you get "Boy Racers" in America? These are 17-18yr old boys who work in McDonalds and have just bought their first car. Usually a Ford Fiesta / Peugeot 205, small GTi or whatever - and they modify them to sound and look bigger than they are, and they drive around like nutters. Harrassing pedestrians, tailgating - all sorts... You get used to them after a while. -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

Liddle Feesh <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:XcBa8.45430$[email hidden]... > Do you get "Boy Racers" in America? These are 17-18yr old boys who work in > McDonalds and have just bought their first car. Usually a Ford Fiesta / > Peugeot 205, small GTi or whatever - and they modify them to sound and look > bigger than they are, and they drive around like nutters. Harrassing > pedestrians, tailgating - all sorts... You get used to them after a while. From my travels in rec.autos.driving, I'd say they're known as 'ricers' from their original habit of driving Civics or similar, with the standard array of blacked-out windows, baked bean can exhausts, zero ground clearance and so on ;-) Jonny

"Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:UzTa8.51734$[email hidden]... > > Liddle Feesh <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:XcBa8.45430$[email hidden]... > > > Do you get "Boy Racers" in America? These are 17-18yr old boys who workin > > McDonalds and have just bought their first car. Usually a Ford Fiesta / > > Peugeot 205, small GTi or whatever - and they modify them to sound andlook > > bigger than they are, and they drive around like nutters. Harrassing > > pedestrians, tailgating - all sorts... You get used to them after awhile. > > From my travels in rec.autos.driving, I'd say they're known as > 'ricers' from their original habit of driving Civics or similar, > with the standard array of blacked-out windows, baked bean can > exhausts, zero ground clearance and so on ;-) LOL - I know the ones :) All DIY cars. LOL I've seen so many exhaust ends fall off I've lost count. And I saw a classic Golf driving up to a speed bump in the road - and losing half of the extra low bodywork! WHY?! -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)

Liddle Feesh wrote:

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> > "Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > From my travels in rec.autos.driving, I'd say they're known as > > 'ricers' from their original habit of driving Civics or similar, > > with the standard array of blacked-out windows, baked bean can > > exhausts, zero ground clearance and so on ;-) > > LOL - I know the ones :) > > All DIY cars. LOL I've seen so many exhaust ends fall off I've lost count. > > And I saw a classic Golf driving up to a speed bump in the road - and losing > half of the extra low bodywork! > > WHY?!

I assume for the same reason the same people every day drive through the low storm drain grate by my house then look surprised at the awful scraping sound. Sheer stupidity! ;) I don't drive through that hole when going around the corner but just about everyone else does and they do it every day, sometimes several times a day. I imagine that I could thump these people on the shoulder and they'd wonder why their shoulder hurts, then I could do it three more times and they still wouldn't know what's going on. ;)

"Gregg E." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Liddle Feesh wrote: > > > > "Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > From my travels in rec.autos.driving, I'd say they're known as > > > 'ricers' from their original habit of driving Civics or similar, > > > with the standard array of blacked-out windows, baked bean can > > > exhausts, zero ground clearance and so on ;-) > > > > LOL - I know the ones :) > > > > All DIY cars. LOL I've seen so many exhaust ends fall off I've lost

count. > > > > And I saw a classic Golf driving up to a speed bump in the road - andlosing

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> > half of the extra low bodywork! > > > > WHY?! > > I assume for the same reason the same people every day drive through > the low storm drain grate by my house then look surprised at the > awful scraping sound. Sheer stupidity! ;) I don't drive through that > hole when going around the corner but just about everyone else > does and they do it every day, sometimes several times a day. > I imagine that I could thump these people on the shoulder and they'd > wonder why their shoulder hurts, then I could do it three more times > and they still wouldn't know what's going on. ;)

LOL - sheer stupidity, as you say! Great thing is - when it happens to an obvious poser, and the bodged "lowering" kit he installed doesn't work! LOL -- Liddle Feesh ' O 0 o <"//>< ' o'^ (Remove UNDERPANTS to reply)