Rally Trophy Rank shuts down :(

�yvind Kaurstad just posted this bad news about his RTRank project.... http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15904 -- Mikkel Gram-Hansen http://www.racesimcentral.com

Was it based on "hotlaps" (hotlegs?) If so, it seems a little strange to me. The whole idea of rallying is negotiating courses unseen with only a navigator. This is one reason why I'd like to see a rally game which randomly generates courses. It may sound silly but think about it.... -- Damien Smith [email hidden] ICQ: 77028579 F1 2001 rank: +33.541

Nice work **BugBear** - NOT!!!!!!! -- ed_ "Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3c60f1b0$0$22397$[email hidden]... > �yvind Kaurstad just posted this bad news about his RTRank project.... > http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15904 > > > -- > Mikkel Gram-Hansen > http://www.racesimcentral.com > >

Damien Smith wrote: > > Was it based on "hotlaps" (hotlegs?) If so, it seems a little strange to > me. The whole idea of rallying is negotiating courses unseen with only a > navigator. This is one reason why I'd like to see a rally game which > randomly generates courses. It may sound silly but think about it.... > It doesn't sound silly at all, it makes the most sense. That's why I don't have WRC for PS2 - ok, so it has 5 x 16 = 80 stages, but once you've done the championship 3 or four times, you know them all... The other thing it would need is really good co-driver speech... some are just too slow, and still telling you about corners you've been through. Grr! [Rick]

On Wed, 06 Feb 2002 13:40:50 +0000, rjs130 <[email hidden]> wrote: >It doesn't sound silly at all, it makes the most sense. That's why I >don't have WRC for PS2 - ok, so it has 5 x 16 = 80 stages, but once >you've done the championship 3 or four times, you know them all... In a good sim, 11 tracks is enough.. :) Andre >The other thing it would need is really good co-driver speech... some >are just too slow, and still telling you about corners you've been >through. Grr! > >[Rick]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the patch if/when you ever buy the game Ed. BugBear/JoWood are among a very small few publishers/developers who have actually acted upon detailed and beneficial features suggestions/etc. and implemented them in a patch. With all due respect... your opinions are based on ignorance (the true meaning of the word... to form an opinion without the facts). Cheers, Schumi "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3c610e39$[email hidden]...

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> Nice work **BugBear** - NOT!!!!!!! > > -- > ed_ > > "Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3c60f1b0$0$22397$[email hidden]... > > �yvind Kaurstad just posted this bad news about his RTRank project.... > > http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15904 > > > > > > -- > > Mikkel Gram-Hansen > > http://www.racesimcentral.com > > > > > >

"Schumi" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:oKj88.118222$[email hidden]...

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> I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the patch if/when you ever buy > the game Ed. > > BugBear/JoWood are among a very small few publishers/developers who have > actually acted upon detailed and beneficial features suggestions/etc. and > implemented them in a patch. > > With all due respect... your opinions are based on ignorance (the true > meaning of the word... to form an opinion without the facts). >

With similar respect... you actions towards Ed and RTrank show an abundance of arrogance (proud contempt of others), maliciousness (being deliberately harmful), deviousness (being not straightforward), and conceit (unduly high opinion of own abilities). You would make Microsoft very proud! /Jens

Hi Jens, I am a bit confused by your post in some respects. As far as the contempt I have shown Ed... granted. It is contempt without a doubt. Why do I have this contempt? The reasons are simple: Like you and many others, I have been a frequenter of this NG. I have sat back and read posts and pleas from the board to have developers/publishers show more support to the community. More features that they want. Ed is indeed one of the more vocal ones in this respect. He often has great suggestions and anecdotes about what he thinks should be added to games in the way of features, etc. Indeed many of the things he has suggested over the years were already in place by Relay. Many of the features we employ were a direct result of suggestions from the community. We quietly plug along recruiting developer/publisher support with little fanfare. Now finally a developer (BB) agrees to support us, and we in turn suggest features that the community has asked for and indeed Ed himself voiced desires for. What happens in return. Ed turns around and $hits on BB and us for doing it. It caught me off guard, and to be honest the post I think you are referring to was made during one of my "why do I even bother doing this for them" episodes. Probably uncalled for, but does not diminish my contempt. I always feel contempt for contradiction... its just me I guess. Malicious... hmmm... yes that post probably could be construed that way. Probably uncalled for, but as stated above.... a true representation of my feelings of contempt. Deviousness... I am a bit dumbfounded by this one to be honest. No reply since I have no idea where that one came from. Conceit... I think you misconstrued Pride for conceit. It is true that I have a lot of pride for what my team has done. You see about 40% of what we can do, and the remaining 60% is ready to deploy once we get support from the developers/publishers at the development stage of the game. Indeed I remember reading something from you that stated programmers are a proud breed. I believe it wasn't that long ago too. We have made an offer in good faith to RTRank in an attempt to ensure their continued existence. They have turned it down. What more are we to do? Cheers, Schumi http://rt.relaygames.com "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:5DA88.1385$[email hidden]... > "Schumi" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse > news:oKj88.118222$[email hidden]... > > I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the patch if/when you everbuy > > the game Ed. > > > > BugBear/JoWood are among a very small few publishers/developers who have > > actually acted upon detailed and beneficial features suggestions/etc.and

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> > implemented them in a patch. > > > > With all due respect... your opinions are based on ignorance (the true > > meaning of the word... to form an opinion without the facts). > > > > With similar respect... you actions towards Ed and RTrank show an

abundance of > arrogance (proud contempt of others), maliciousness (being deliberately > harmful), deviousness (being not straightforward), and conceit (undulyhigh

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> opinion of own abilities). > > You would make Microsoft very proud! > > /Jens > >

Schumi, I may be laboring under the misconception that you are an intelligent person. If that is not the case, I am completely wrong in my assesment of you and your site for which I must apologize. However, I will try to explain why I characterized your behavior using those words. Mentioning Ed probably confused the issue, which is my mistake as I was mainly thinking about Relay and RTRank. Arrogance: Throughout your entire "defense" of your deal with BB/JW you have presented yourself and your company as representatives if the "online racing community", giving the racers what they want. You have electively chosen what "we" (a very multifaceted group) want and thus acted arrogantly by removing any sort of choice from us. I do not speak for this community, but neither do you, but you sure act that way. Also, pretending that the readers can not see through your smoke and mirror act shows contempt towards us as you take pride in your abilities to deceive. That is arrogant. Deviousness: You keep pretending that you offered RTRank an acceptable solution knowing full well that it is complete rubbish. You guys want exposure and more members. You want to take over all of the RTRank drivers who have not yet registered with you and this is one way of getting them into your database. Claiming anything else is deviousness. You knew, that your arrangement with BB/JW would give you an effective monopoly and in effect shut down RTRank (and any other site with similar aspirations), and this was undoubtedly one of your goals unless you are really dumb. It would have been very simple for RT to keep the old high-score file along with the new one, and you must have known it and probably vetoed it, if you were smart. RT could even have written the stage-times to a plain-text file (like GPL and other games), which would have been a perfectly valid answer for RTRank. Presenting your solution as "the only one" whilst knowing about a much better one is plain and simple deviousness. You could also have warned RTRank about your exclusive deal with BB/JW much, much earlier withour giving away details or compromising your deal, thus warning the people behind the RTRank site not to spend too much time on it. You elected to be devious instead. Maliciousness: You have done everything you could to sabotage RTRank and kill off the "competion". Your offer is blatantly in your own interest for snatching up the few (?) subscribers you have not yet registered at Relay and cannot be seen as anything but shrewd business practice. You have deliberately (again assuming you are clever) prevented RT from supporting mulitiple sites. That, in my book, is maliciousness. Conceit: Yes, a *good* programmer should be proud. And I have absolutely no reason to believe that the Relay-team is anything but highly skilled at design, coding, etc. But thinking that you are better than everybody else is not pride,- it is conceit. For instance, you make a lot of claims about being the best this and that on your sponsorship pages (http://sponsor.relaygames.com/). Without checking pretty much each and every site showing ads on the WWW now *and* in the past, you have no way of knowing whether anybody does or did it better, do you? Have you checked the various patent sites *worldwide* for similar claims? (Yes, your software is patent pending). On other words, you guys are conceited. As is beliving you are better at designing/running a lap/stage comparison site than anybody else who *might* have had the chance, had you not railroaded them. /Jens "Schumi" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:5TE88.120101$[email hidden]...

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> Hi Jens, > > I am a bit confused by your post in some respects. > > As far as the contempt I have shown Ed... granted. It is contempt without a > doubt. Why do I have this contempt? The reasons are simple: > > Like you and many others, I have been a frequenter of this NG. I have sat > back and read posts and pleas from the board to have developers/publishers > show more support to the community. More features that they want. Ed is > indeed one of the more vocal ones in this respect. He often has great > suggestions and anecdotes about what he thinks should be added to games in > the way of features, etc. > > Indeed many of the things he has suggested over the years were already in > place by Relay. Many of the features we employ were a direct result of > suggestions from the community. > > We quietly plug along recruiting developer/publisher support with little > fanfare. Now finally a developer (BB) agrees to support us, and we in turn > suggest features that the community has asked for and indeed Ed himself > voiced desires for. > > What happens in return. Ed turns around and $hits on BB and us for doing it. > It caught me off guard, and to be honest the post I think you are referring > to was made during one of my "why do I even bother doing this for them" > episodes. Probably uncalled for, but does not diminish my contempt. I always > feel contempt for contradiction... its just me I guess. > > Malicious... hmmm... yes that post probably could be construed that way. > Probably uncalled for, but as stated above.... a true representation of my > feelings of contempt. > > Deviousness... I am a bit dumbfounded by this one to be honest. No reply > since I have no idea where that one came from. > > Conceit... I think you misconstrued Pride for conceit. It is true that I > have a lot of pride for what my team has done. You see about 40% of what we > can do, and the remaining 60% is ready to deploy once we get support from > the developers/publishers at the development stage of the game. > > Indeed I remember reading something from you that stated programmers are a > proud breed. I believe it wasn't that long ago too. > > We have made an offer in good faith to RTRank in an attempt to ensure their > continued existence. They have turned it down. What more are we to do? > > Cheers, > Schumi > http://rt.relaygames.com > > "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:5DA88.1385$[email hidden]... > > "Schumi" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse > > news:oKj88.118222$[email hidden]... > > > I think you'll be pleasantly surprised with the patch if/when you ever > buy > > > the game Ed. > > > > > > BugBear/JoWood are among a very small few publishers/developers who have > > > actually acted upon detailed and beneficial features suggestions/etc. > and > > > implemented them in a patch. > > > > > > With all due respect... your opinions are based on ignorance (the true > > > meaning of the word... to form an opinion without the facts). > > > > > > > With similar respect... you actions towards Ed and RTrank show an > abundance of > > arrogance (proud contempt of others), maliciousness (being deliberately > > harmful), deviousness (being not straightforward), and conceit (unduly > high > > opinion of own abilities). > > > > You would make Microsoft very proud! > > > > /Jens > > > > > >

The "few" are the ones who continue to blatantly attempt to antagonize Jason and his crew who have done more for the Rally Trophy community than anyone else can come close to. Here is the first part of your message to the RTRank mailing list. Are you proud? --David Cook (Creator of RTRank) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> To: "Christoph Frick" <[email hidden]> Cc: <[email hidden]>; "GPLRank Mailing List" <[email hidden]> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 9:39 PM Subject: Copy of r.a.s post

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> Hi Christoph, > > Is this good enough for your lust for blood? > > Cheers, > Jens > > ------------ r.a.s. post --------------- > > Schumi, > > I may be laboring under the misconception that you are an intelligent

person > You have done everything you could to sabotage RTRank and kill off the > "competion". Your offer is blatantly in your own interest for snatching upthe > few (?) subscribers you have not yet registered at Relay and cannot beseen as > anything but shrewd business practice.

Don't forget this one David: They claim we are teh ones who are being deceptive. I think the proof is in the pudding. The RTRank admins are now hiding behind pseudonyms on teh forums as to not damage their transparent facade. They are not interested in teh community. They are only interested in themselves. A pity really... I hoped we could have done things with them in the future. Guess not anymore. Cheers, Schumi ----- Original Message ----- From: "Christoph Frick" <[email hidden]> To: <[email hidden]> Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:48 PM Subject: Re: Nope, nothing from BugBear/JoWooD today

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> On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, John Schoen wrote: > > Hi! > > > Feel free to join the discussion and throw a little wood on the > > fire. > > Oyvind and I are known there as being from RTRank, so we try to be as > > polite as possible (very hard in my case, I tend to react more emotional > > and have to say sorry later ;-)). That is one reason why I have only > > joined once in the discussion on the forum. I write a reply, think about > > it, edit it, think again and in the mean time Oyvind has come up with a > > perfect answer. > Dont think about it! Typos increase the awareness of the readers on > your text and a flamewar is always fun :) > > BTW: My 0.02 cent as "CatchMyDrift" are in teh forum. I kept it ironic > and offensive - no flames so far. But schumi will start it now - i > hope... > > CU! > > "emacs is a great operating system - but the editor suxx" > >

LOL as much as I like you Schumi you really need to switch the "h" and "e" keys on your keyboard <g> That's about the 10th time I've seen the word "teh" in one of your posts! Oh yeah. From now on www.rtrank.com points to the Rally Trophy Rank on Relay. If anyone wants to get to the old site they can contact "CatchMyDrift" for the URL... - David Cook "Schumi" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:zGH88.120198$[email hidden]... > Don't forget this one David: > > They claim we are teh ones who are being deceptive. I think the proof isin

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> the pudding. The RTRank admins are now hiding behind pseudonyms on teh > forums as to not damage their transparent facade. > > They are not interested in teh community. They are only interested in > themselves. > > A pity really... I hoped we could have done things with them in the

future.

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> Guess not anymore. > > Cheers, > Schumi > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Christoph Frick" <[email hidden]> > To: <[email hidden]> > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:48 PM > Subject: Re: Nope, nothing from BugBear/JoWooD today > > > On Thu, 7 Feb 2002, John Schoen wrote: > > > > Hi! > > > > > Feel free to join the discussion and throw a little wood on the > > > fire. > > > Oyvind and I are known there as being from RTRank, so we try to be as > > > polite as possible (very hard in my case, I tend to react more

emotional > > > and have to say sorry later ;-)). That is one reason why I have only > > > joined once in the discussion on the forum. I write a reply, thinkabout > > > it, edit it, think again and in the mean time Oyvind has come up witha

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> > > perfect answer. > > Dont think about it! Typos increase the awareness of the readers on > > your text and a flamewar is always fun :) > > > > BTW: My 0.02 cent as "CatchMyDrift" are in teh forum. I kept it ironic > > and offensive - no flames so far. But schumi will start it now - i > > hope... > > > > CU! > > > > "emacs is a great operating system - but the editor suxx" > > > > > > > > >

On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:20:27 GMT, David L. Cook <[email hidden]> wrote: > else can come close to. Here is the first part of your message to the > RTRank mailing list. Are you proud? > Posting more or less private mailing list communications on Usenet is generally considered bad netiquette. Cheers, uwe

"David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:%tH88.19006$[email hidden]...

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> The "few" are the ones who continue to blatantly attempt to antagonize Jason > and his crew who have done more for the Rally Trophy community than anyone > else can come close to. Here is the first part of your message to the > RTRank mailing list. Are you proud? > > --David Cook (Creator of RTRank) >

Yes, I am. I did not post confidential mail in a public newsgroup. I did not hide behind a pseudonym. I did not deliberately mislead people in the name of business. I spoke out against the predators of the sim racing community, as I see them. Nor have I ever stated that I was an RTrank admin. Which I am not. I don't even play Rally Trophy but should provent me from speaking out against what I feel is Relay's business practices? Oh, in case you missed it: some of the confidential corresponance was cc'd to the GPLRank admins. I will stand behind every single one of my barbs as they appear to be flying true and straight. Sorry to see your morals go, David. /Jens

I warned everyone on the list that if it continued to get out of hand I would pull the plug. It did and your comments deserved to be made public. My morals are fine, thanks. - David Cook "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wcM88.3039$[email hidden]... > "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse > news:%tH88.19006$[email hidden]... > > The "few" are the ones who continue to blatantly attempt to antagonizeJason > > and his crew who have done more for the Rally Trophy community thananyone > > else can come close to. Here is the first part of your message to the > > RTRank mailing list. Are you proud? > > > > -David Cook (Creator of RTRank) > > > Yes, I am. I did not post confidential mail in a public newsgroup. I didnot > hide behind a pseudonym. I did not deliberately mislead people in the nameof > business. I spoke out against the predators of the sim racing community,as I > see them. > > Nor have I ever stated that I was an RTrank admin. Which I am not. I don'teven > play Rally Trophy but should provent me from speaking out against what Ifeel is > Relay's business practices? Oh, in case you missed it: some of theconfidential > corresponance was cc'd to the GPLRank admins. > > I will stand behind every single one of my barbs as they appear to beflying

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> true and straight. > > Sorry to see your morals go, David. > > /Jens > > > > >

On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 10:24:10 GMT, David L. Cook <[email hidden]> wrote: > I warned everyone on the list that if it continued to get out of hand I > would pull the plug. It did and your comments deserved to be made public. > My morals are fine, thanks. > > - David Cook David, I still don't see how or why the "issue" got out of hand in your opinion. We stated why we think it makes no sense to keep rtrank alive as would essentially be add-on Relay baggage. We did so publicly and by consent of all mailing list members, including yourself, or at least you had no objections when we were discussing the final form and "tone" of our statement. Again, "pulling the plug" by redirecting a domain name won't shut down RT rank. As I stated in an earlier post, it's alive and well at http://gplrank.schuerkamp.de/rt_index.html Regards, Uwe

"Uwe Schuerkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... , "pulling the plug" by redirecting a domain name won't shut

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> down RT rank. As I stated in an earlier post, it's alive and well at > > http://gplrank.schuerkamp.de/rt_index.html > > > Regards, > > Uwe

My intention was not to shut down RTRank - just to take back my domain. I apologize if that was the how my post sounded. Good luck with your site. - David

www.rtrank.com is once again pointing to Uwe's site. I was out of line last night and what I did was a knee jerk reaction. Relay had nothing to do with it BTW and I didn't even ask them if they were okay with what I did. When and if Rally Trophy Rank retires on Uwe's site I will retire the domain as well. - David Cook "Uwe Schuerkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > David,

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> > I still don't see how or why the "issue" got out of hand in your > opinion. We stated why we think it makes no sense to keep rtrank > alive as would essentially be add-on Relay baggage. > > We did so publicly and by consent of all mailing list members, > including yourself, or at least you had no objections when we > were discussing the final form and "tone" of our statement. > > Again, "pulling the plug" by redirecting a domain name won't shut > down RT rank. As I stated in an earlier post, it's alive and well at > > http://gplrank.schuerkamp.de/rt_index.html > > > Regards, > > Uwe > >

On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:25:37 -0500, David L. Cook <[email hidden]> wrote: > www.rtrank.com is once again pointing to Uwe's site. I was out of line last > night and what I did was a knee jerk reaction. How often do you see apologetic posts on RAS? ;-) No problem Dave, the RT rank issue has already generated much more exothermic reactions than we all would have wished for. Cheers, uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) Ever wondered what's wrong with the world? http://bnetwork.com/ PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61

"Uwe Schuerkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:25:37 -0500, David L. Cook <[email hidden]> wrote: > > www.rtrank.com is once again pointing to Uwe's site. I was out of linelast

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> > night and what I did was a knee jerk reaction. > > How often do you see apologetic posts on RAS? ;-) No problem > Dave, the RT rank issue has already generated much more > exothermic reactions than we all would have wished for. > > Cheers, > > uwe

I'm sorry he's sorry and I'm sorry I don't know what Exothermic means. And and...I'm really sorry about posting this sorry silliness. dave henrie

Annoying isn't it when someone foreign speaks better English than we do? ;-) Nice one Uwe! ;-D Tim "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:j1_88.13282$fK1.62744@rwcrnsc54... > > "Uwe Schuerkamp" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 13:25:37 -0500, David L. Cook <[email hidden]>wrote: > > > www.rtrank.com is once again pointing to Uwe's site. I was out ofline

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> last > > > night and what I did was a knee jerk reaction. > > > > How often do you see apologetic posts on RAS? ;-) No problem > > Dave, the RT rank issue has already generated much more > > exothermic reactions than we all would have wished for. > > > > Cheers, > > > > uwe > I'm sorry he's sorry and I'm sorry I don't know what Exothermic means. > And and...I'm really sorry about posting this sorry silliness. > dave henrie > >

On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 20:52:46 -0000, Tim Wheatley <[email hidden]> wrote: > Annoying isn't it when someone foreign speaks better English than we do? ;-) > > Nice one Uwe! ;-D > > Tim thanks! 8-) After all the trouble RT rank will continue to serve its userbase. Cheers, uwe -- Uwe Schuerkamp //////////////////////////// http://www.schuerkamp.de/ Herford, Germany \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ (52.0N/8.5E) Ever wondered what's wrong with the world? http://bnetwork.com/ PGP Fingerprint: 2E 13 20 22 9A 3F 63 7F 67 6F E9 B1 A8 36 A4 61