Way OT -- Patriotic outburst here

Hope you all don't mind, but this page reduced me to tears tonight and so I thought I'd share. This really hits the emotions many of us in the states felt after September 11th... Please take a minute :-) http://kenilworthveterans.com/GodBlessAmerica/ Todd Wasson --- Performance Simulations Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction Software http://PerformanceSimulations.Com My little car sim screenshots: http://performancesimulations.com/scnshot4.htm

P.S.. Wait for the music to play before you start reading/looking :-) Todd Wasson --- Performance Simulations Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction Software http://PerformanceSimulations.Com My little car sim screenshots: http://performancesimulations.com/scnshot4.htm

Our coutry rocks. I'm damn proud to be an American. "J. Todd Wasson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hope you all don't mind, but this page reduced me to tears tonight andso I > thought I'd share. This really hits the emotions many of us in the statesfelt

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> after September 11th... Please take a minute :-) > > http://kenilworthveterans.com/GodBlessAmerica/ > > > > > > > > Todd Wasson > --- > Performance Simulations > Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction > Software > http://PerformanceSimulations.Com > > My little car sim screenshots: > http://performancesimulations.com/scnshot4.htm >

That might get a neagtive reaction. -- btgoss btgoss(my_shorts)@yahoo.com Remove my shorts to reply "artie beamer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dAR88.16428$[email hidden]... > But it takes a building blowing up and a catchy song for you to realize it? > > > Our coutry rocks. > > I'm damn proud to be an American. > > > > > >

That might get a neagtive reaction. -- btgoss Remove my shorts to reply

But it takes a building blowing up and a catchy song for you to realize it? > Our coutry rocks. > I'm damn proud to be an American. >

On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 14:46:53 GMT, "rik zeppelin" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Our coutry rocks. >I'm damn proud to be an American. Holland is pretty cool too! Andre

scuse me where did i say that? "artie beamer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:dAR88.16428$[email hidden]... > But it takes a building blowing up and a catchy song for you to realizeit?

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> > > Our coutry rocks. > > I'm damn proud to be an American. > > > > > >

not you "rik zeppelin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:_OS88.96078$[email hidden]...

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> scuse me where did i say that? > > "artie beamer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:dAR88.16428$[email hidden]... > > But it takes a building blowing up and a catchy song for you to realize > it? > > > > > Our coutry rocks. > > > I'm damn proud to be an American. > > > > > > > > > > > > >

hehe i agree with andre holland does rock. Being a brit id like to say britain rocks!... but ...welll it doesnt "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 14:46:53 GMT, "rik zeppelin" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Our coutry rocks. > >I'm damn proud to be an American. > > Holland is pretty cool too! > > Andre

On 08 Feb 2002 08:52:00 GMT, [email hidden] (J. Todd Wasson) wrote: The Gulf War theme song. Big whoop. Just today there was a story in the news that they've decided that Gulf War Syndrome is psychosomatic -- I guess so the government won't be held accountable. As if psychosomatic conditions cause birth defects... They sold that war to us like McDonalds sells hamburgers and now they're doing the same with this one. First it was Binny "dead or alive" and now he doesn't matter because Bush is going to settle scores with -- and grab oil rights from -- every nation he thinks he can get away with. I supported this war at first, because I thought we were serious about taking out a mad dog terrorist, but now I'm growing less enthusiastic about it by the day -- we're fiddling around in Afghanistan and giving away our freedom for security at home -- we've got more troops in Salt Lake City than we do in Afghanistan...

"The Black Cat =^..^=" wrote: > > I supported this war at first, because I thought we were serious about > taking out a mad dog terrorist, but now I'm growing less enthusiastic > about it by the day -- we're fiddling around in Afghanistan and giving > away our freedom for security at home -- we've got more troops in Salt > Lake City than we do in Afghanistan... Careful what you say. Remember Bush: "Either you are for us or you are for the Terrorists." While I'm as saddened by what was done as anyone, that sentiment of his is *very* dangerous. I can't support that. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 18:13:14 -0000, "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote: >hehe i agree with andre holland does rock. Being a brit id like to say >britain rocks!... but ...welll it doesnt Lol :) Andre

A little reality to go along with all the patriotism. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11574035&method=full David G Fisher "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "The Black Cat =^..^=" wrote: > > > > I supported this war at first, because I thought we were serious about > > taking out a mad dog terrorist, but now I'm growing less enthusiastic > > about it by the day -- we're fiddling around in Afghanistan and giving > > away our freedom for security at home -- we've got more troops in Salt > > Lake City than we do in Afghanistan... > > > Careful what you say. Remember Bush: "Either you are for us or you are > for the Terrorists." While I'm as saddened by what was done as anyone, > that sentiment of his is *very* dangerous. I can't support that. > > -- > > Fester > > "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no > brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" > from alt.linux.mandrake NG

David G Fisher wrote: > > A little reality to go along with all the patriotism. > > http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11574035&method=full > > David G Fisher Great link. Thanks. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Q2098.33973$[email hidden]... > A little reality to go along with all the patriotism. > >http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11574035&method=full >Good. I'm tired of us taking crap from 2 bit nations. Its time to start kicking some ass. "To preserve the peace is to prepare for war"

[link lost in import] Good. I'm tired of us taking ***from 2 bit nations. Its time to start kicking some ass. "To preserve the peace is to prepare for war"

On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 02:05:11 GMT, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> wrote: >Careful what you say. Remember Bush: "Either you are for us or you are >for the Terrorists." While I'm as saddened by what was done as anyone, >that sentiment of his is *very* dangerous. I can't support that. Me either. Maybe the scariest thing of all is when a president of the United States seems incapable of differentiating between legitimate dissent and being "against us." My generation was decimated by one war which was fought primary to avoid bruising the egos of a few politicians and I will not stand by now and watch antother generation bleed.

"The Black Cat =^..^=" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 02:05:11 GMT, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Careful what you say. Remember Bush: "Either you are for us or you are > >for the Terrorists." While I'm as saddened by what was done as anyone, > >that sentiment of his is *very* dangerous. I can't support that. > > Me either. Maybe the scariest thing of all is when a president of the > United States seems incapable of differentiating between legitimate > dissent and being "against us." My generation was decimated by one > war which was fought primary to avoid bruising the egos of a few > politicians and I will not stand by now and watch antother generation > bleed. >

He was speaking to foriegn countries not "dissidents".

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > >On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 02:05:11 GMT, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> >wrote: > >>Careful what you say. Remember Bush: "Either you are for us or you are >>for the Terrorists." While I'm as saddened by what was done as anyone, >>that sentiment of his is *very* dangerous. I can't support that. > >Me either. Maybe the scariest thing of all is when a president of the >United States seems incapable of differentiating between legitimate >dissent and being "against us."

The problem is that you are thinking that there is such a thing as "legitimate dissent." There are those, many, heck, perhaps a majority in this country, that really would disagree. Or rather, would define it much more narrowly than you or I might. -Tim

In article <jw398.15953$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... >He was speaking to foriegn countries not "dissidents". No, not really. See comments from various faces of the administration over the past few months. -Tim

Thats quite a scary report. Ive always been suspicious of americas massive, terrifying war machine. Maybe they want the whole world to live under their banner (rather like pre ww2 germany). IMO the world is about to become a lot less nice place to live. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Q2098.33973$[email hidden]... > A little reality to go along with all the patriotism. > >http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/page.cfm?objectid=11574035&method=full

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> > David G Fisher > > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > "The Black Cat =^..^=" wrote: > > > > > > I supported this war at first, because I thought we were serious about > > > taking out a mad dog terrorist, but now I'm growing less enthusiastic > > > about it by the day -- we're fiddling around in Afghanistan and giving > > > away our freedom for security at home -- we've got more troops in Salt > > > Lake City than we do in Afghanistan... > > > > > > Careful what you say. Remember Bush: "Either you are for us or you are > > for the Terrorists." While I'm as saddened by what was done as anyone, > > that sentiment of his is *very* dangerous. I can't support that. > > > > -- > > > > Fester > > > > "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no > > brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" > > from alt.linux.mandrake NG > >

I would be inclined to think that the richest country in the world dropping bombs on the poorest country in the world is a negative reaction too, but to each their own. It's nice to know that my country is going to be deficit spending again in order to combat something that our president's dad created when he was with the CIA. Maybe I'd feel some sympathy for the 9/11 victims if the United States weren't the biggest backer of terrorism in the world. 3,000 people dead pales to the number we've killed in Chile, Nicarauga, Iran/Iraq, El Salvidor, etc etc. At least the cigar chomping idiots have some new ideology to fight (Islam) since communism-hating isn't trendy anymore. Jason "btgoss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<0NR88.17741$[email hidden]>...

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> That might get a neagtive reaction. > > -- > btgoss > btgoss(my_shorts)@yahoo.com > > Remove my shorts to reply > "artie beamer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:dAR88.16428$[email hidden]... > > But it takes a building blowing up and a catchy song for you to realize > it? > > > > > Our coutry rocks. > > > I'm damn proud to be an American. > > > > > > > > > > >

Dan Leach wrote: > > Thats quite a scary report. Ive always been suspicious of americas massive, > terrifying war machine. Maybe they want the whole world to live under their > banner (rather like pre ww2 germany). IMO the world is about to become a lot > less nice place to live. That's basically how I've seen them for quite a while now. Hitler with nukes. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

rik zeppelin wrote: > > He was speaking to foriegn countries not "dissidents". That's a lie. Right off the top of my head, RaiseTheFist.com was shut down just over a week ago by dozens of machinegun-bearing Feds who confiscated the guys servers. Why? His was a site laid out similar to Slashdot style and espoused views much like are being expressed in this thread. Domestic dissidents are absolutely included. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

The thing that really gets to me is '''Above all, the American industrial-complex has a new enemy with which to justify its gargantuan appetite for public resources - the new military budget is enough to end all primary causes of poverty in the world.''' america is embarking on policies that will create more anti-american feelings and terrorists than ever before. Just imagine for a moment how the world would view america if they did the unthinkable and spent there defence budget on stopping all the major causes of poverty throughout the world. i for one recon most anti american feeling would be almost unjustifiable even to r=the most hardened terrorist dan "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Dan Leach wrote: > > > > Thats quite a scary report. Ive always been suspicious of americasmassive, > > terrifying war machine. Maybe they want the whole world to live undertheir > > banner (rather like pre ww2 germany). IMO the world is about to become alot

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> > less nice place to live. > > > That's basically how I've seen them for quite a while now. Hitler with > nukes. > > -- > > Fester > > "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no > brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" > from alt.linux.mandrake NG

Dan Leach wrote:

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> > The thing that really gets to me is '''Above all, the American > industrial-complex has a new enemy with which to justify its gargantuan > appetite for public resources - the new military budget is enough to end all > primary causes of poverty in the world.''' > america is embarking on policies that will create more anti-american > feelings and terrorists than ever before.

Which will justify further actions on the US part. I can just see the governmental talking heads on CNN, ABC etc, "See just how dangerous this world IS? We need to continue current undertakings to help the rest of the world to enjoy 'our freedom'." And the throngs of people heaping praise on them here at home. Sad. >Just imagine for a moment how the > world would view america if they did the unthinkable and spent there defence > budget on stopping all the major causes of poverty throughout the world. i > for one recon most anti american feeling would be almost unjustifiable even > to r=the most hardened terrorist Pipe dreams. But it would be nice. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

> Great link. Thanks. >Liberal garbage, "War Machine" "Mass Slaughter" I would say just slightly biased . These responses in this thread smacks of young idealistic liberal ideas, remind me of when I was in college, boy we had all the answers to the worlds problems. Feed the world................oh brother, makes me feel ah...so warm and fuzzy inside. Come down to reality and get you head out of the friggin clouds. My .02.

"H.S.Thompson" wrote: > > > Great link. Thanks. > > > Liberal garbage, "War Machine" "Mass Slaughter" I would say just slightly > biased . 1) Military spending will not rise to $379B? 2) $50B is not slated for the War on Terrorism? 3) More than 5,000 innocent civilians weren't killed in Afghanistan? 4) The US hasn't failed to capture bin Laden? 5) Cheney didn't release a list of 40-50 "terrorist countries" that may also require US attention? 6) We didn't kill 7,000-10,000 Somalis? Unless you're dense, I think you get the idea. Real biased & inaccurate stuff there. Right.

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>These responses > in this thread smacks of young idealistic liberal ideas, remind me of when > I was in college, boy we had > all the answers to the worlds problems. Feed the world................oh > brother, makes me feel ah...so warm > and fuzzy inside. Come down to reality and get you head out of the friggin > clouds. My .02.

Instead bomb, invade & take over anyone who is different than us. After helping to create a situation that insures attacks upon us, justifying our "liberation" of their nations. Uh-huh. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

On Sat, 9 Feb 2002 07:49:17 -0700, "H.S.Thompson" <[email hidden]> wrote: >These responses >in this thread smacks of young idealistic liberal ideas, remind me of when >I was in college, I'm 30 years out of college and, indeed have given up any ideas that we, or any nation, can solve all the world's problems by throwing money at them. But guess what? We can't solve problems by throwing BOMBS at them either. The United States is ONE nation among many -- we just act like we're the only one.

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I would be inclined to think that the richest country in the world > dropping bombs on the poorest country in the world is a negative > reaction too, but to each their own. > > It's nice to know that my country is going to be deficit spending > again in order to combat something that our president's dad created > when he was with the CIA. Maybe I'd feel some sympathy for the 9/11 > victims if the United States weren't the biggest backer of terrorism > in the world. 3,000 people dead pales to the number we've killed in > Chile, Nicarauga, Iran/Iraq, El Salvidor, etc etc. > > At least the cigar chomping idiots have some new ideology to fight > (Islam) since communism-hating isn't trendy anymore. > > Jason

So, why don't you stand up for your beliefs and go join the terrorists like johnny walker, or the kid in florida? Don't you have the balls to stand up for your beliefs? I'll tell you what, If my country calls me to action I will be there in a New York minute.

"The Black Cat =^..^=" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 02:05:11 GMT, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >Careful what you say. Remember Bush: "Either you are for us or you are > >for the Terrorists." While I'm as saddened by what was done as anyone, > >that sentiment of his is *very* dangerous. I can't support that. > > Me either. Maybe the scariest thing of all is when a president of the > United States seems incapable of differentiating between legitimate > dissent and being "against us." My generation was decimated by one > war which was fought primary to avoid bruising the egos of a few > politicians and I will not stand by now and watch antother generation > bleed. >

Your the one with the problem distinguishing between the two. Bush was EXTREMELY clear on the matter.

Your kidding...right? No? Blind emotional patriotism and religious fundamentalism have much in common. Marty "J. Todd Wasson" wrote:

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> Hope you all don't mind, but this page reduced me to tears tonight and so I > thought I'd share. This really hits the emotions many of us in the states felt > after September 11th... Please take a minute :-) > > http://kenilworthveterans.com/GodBlessAmerica/ > > Todd Wasson > --- > Performance Simulations > Drag Racing and Top Speed Prediction > Software > http://PerformanceSimulations.Com > > My little car sim screenshots: > http://performancesimulations.com/scnshot4.htm

rik zeppelin wrote: > "To preserve the peace is to prepare for war" You get that from Orwell's book '1984'? Marty

rik zeppelin wrote:

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> "The Black Cat =^..^=" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 02:05:11 GMT, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >Careful what you say. Remember Bush: "Either you are for us or you are > > >for the Terrorists." While I'm as saddened by what was done as anyone, > > >that sentiment of his is *very* dangerous. I can't support that. > > > > Me either. Maybe the scariest thing of all is when a president of the > > United States seems incapable of differentiating between legitimate > > dissent and being "against us." My generation was decimated by one > > war which was fought primary to avoid bruising the egos of a few > > politicians and I will not stand by now and watch antother generation > > bleed. > > > He was speaking to foriegn countries not "dissidents".

Are you sure?

rik zeppelin wrote:

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> "The Black Cat =^..^=" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 02:05:11 GMT, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >Careful what you say. Remember Bush: "Either you are for us or you are > > >for the Terrorists." While I'm as saddened by what was done as anyone, > > >that sentiment of his is *very* dangerous. I can't support that. > > > > Me either. Maybe the scariest thing of all is when a president of the > > United States seems incapable of differentiating between legitimate > > dissent and being "against us." My generation was decimated by one > > war which was fought primary to avoid bruising the egos of a few > > politicians and I will not stand by now and watch antother generation > > bleed. > > > > Your the one with the problem distinguishing between the two. > Bush was EXTREMELY clear on the matter.

Yes, the Bush administration has been very clear on it's hatred of all dissent to it's view of America's place in the world...might makes right.

Just out of curiosity, would you play a role in the enforcing of economic sanctions that deprive babies of medication in Iraqi hospitals? Anyone who would follow the orders of the hopelessly infantile misleaders of the so called democratic world is a complete moron and I would like to express my full sympathies to you all for the total lack of parental guidance and general leadership you all suffer from! On second thoughts, I think I hear your country calling on action from you now. "Kill all your misleaders. Our problems are within and they keep convincing us they are overseas!" Good luck Rik! :) rik zeppelin wrote: > > I'll tell you what, If my country calls me to action I will be there in a > New York minute.

rik zeppelin wrote:

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> > "The Black Cat =^..^=" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 02:05:11 GMT, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> > > wrote: > > > > >Careful what you say. Remember Bush: "Either you are for us or you are > > >for the Terrorists." While I'm as saddened by what was done as anyone, > > >that sentiment of his is *very* dangerous. I can't support that. > > > > Me either. Maybe the scariest thing of all is when a president of the > > United States seems incapable of differentiating between legitimate > > dissent and being "against us." My generation was decimated by one > > war which was fought primary to avoid bruising the egos of a few > > politicians and I will not stand by now and watch antother generation > > bleed. > > > > Your the one with the problem distinguishing between the two. > Bush was EXTREMELY clear on the matter.

Here's a hint. Instead of listening to the leader's words so much, watch their *actions*. They are even clearer. :-) -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Just out of curiosity, would you play a role in the enforcing of > economic sanctions that deprive babies of medication in Iraqi hospitals? Uh, no Byron, I would not, nor does anyone I know.

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> rik zeppelin wrote: > > > > "The Black Cat =^..^=" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 02:05:11 GMT, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> > > > wrote: > > > > > > >Careful what you say. Remember Bush: "Either you are for us or you

are > > > >for the Terrorists." While I'm as saddened by what was done asanyone,

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> > > >that sentiment of his is *very* dangerous. I can't support that. > > > > > > Me either. Maybe the scariest thing of all is when a president of the > > > United States seems incapable of differentiating between legitimate > > > dissent and being "against us." My generation was decimated by one > > > war which was fought primary to avoid bruising the egos of a few > > > politicians and I will not stand by now and watch antother generation > > > bleed. > > > > > > > Your the one with the problem distinguishing between the two. > > Bush was EXTREMELY clear on the matter. > > > Here's a hint. Instead of listening to the leader's words so much, > watch their *actions*. They are even clearer. :-) >

Indeed they are. Name the dissidents Bush is oppressing.

On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 16:57:21 GMT, "rik zeppelin" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Your the one with the problem distinguishing between the two. >Bush was EXTREMELY clear on the matter. That's a matter of opinion. If the danger is from external terrorists, why is he instituting all sorts of measures which infringe on the freedom of Americans? Walter Williams had a very good column today on the subject of whether or not the solutions being used are either appropriate or proportionate. He said they were neither and I agree.

On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:52:17 GMT, "rik zeppelin" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Name the dissidents Bush is oppressing. How about the nun who was arrested in Utah yesterday for protesting the war? How about the man who carried a protest sign to a Bush photo-op and was arrested and held for 24 hours and then released without being charged with anything? The whole thrust of his administration is to identify HIS partisan programs with the war on terror and with the nation itself. And to oppose those policies is to be of questionable patriotism.

So long as it's all in the name of freedom it should be ok though! ROTFL. That Bush family must have blood ties with the Raffertys! "The Black Cat =^..^=" wrote:

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> > On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:52:17 GMT, "rik zeppelin" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Name the dissidents Bush is oppressing. > > How about the nun who was arrested in Utah yesterday for protesting > the war? How about the man who carried a protest sign to a Bush > photo-op and was arrested and held for 24 hours and then released > without being charged with anything? > > The whole thrust of his administration is to identify HIS partisan > programs with the war on terror and with the nation itself. And to > oppose those policies is to be of questionable patriotism.

Point is, that to be patriotic without amendment implies that you would and do! Don't get me wrong. I'm not an anti American moron either. This planet is full of slaves/sheep who are told they are free and they believe it, told they are doing well and they believe that nonsense too - on the surface at least. Pity is that a whole influx of youth arrives every day that know no better and the downhill slide seems endless! rik zeppelin wrote:

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> > "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Just out of curiosity, would you play a role in the enforcing of > > economic sanctions that deprive babies of medication in Iraqi hospitals? > > Uh, no Byron, I would not, nor does anyone I know.

rik zeppelin wrote:

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> > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Here's a hint. Instead of listening to the leader's words so much, > > watch their *actions*. They are even clearer. :-) > > > Indeed they are. > Name the dissidents Bush is oppressing.

The Black Cat had some good examples. I'll keep on with my earlier example of RaiseTheFist.com. I found an archived copy of their site here: http://web.archive.org/web/20011202223831/http://www.raisethefist.com/ It doesn't open right in N4.7, so you gotta use either N6 or IE. Anyways the description of it is as follows: There is a graphic at the top of the page. A tank is cresting a hill, apparently in pursuit of the arabic young people who are running from it, terrified. Next to the tank is the word Democracy. Directly under the picture is Bush's quote: "either you're with us or you're with the terrorists." Then the guy's opinion. And it sounds pretty accurate to me, but that's neither here nor there. "Let's get this straight: A president we did not elect, heading a government bought off by corporations, arrogantly and agressively pushes a pro-corporate domestic agenda and foreign policy. Now over 6,000 people are dead and he say's we're at "war", fighting secret battles against unknown enemies, and he wants everyone to be "patriots" by forsaking our civil liberties and going "shopping"." Pretty dangerous stuff huh? Agree with it or not, it doesn't deserve to be shut down. That makes us no better than Red China. Our leader's words may say "Freedom of Speech", but our leader's actions prove otherwise. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

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> rik zeppelin wrote: > > > > "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Just out of curiosity, would you play a role in the enforcing of > > > economic sanctions that deprive babies of medication in Iraqi hospitals? > > > > Uh, no Byron, I would not, nor does anyone I know.

Byron Forbes wrote: > > Point is, that to be patriotic without amendment implies that you > would and do! Absolutely. The US has been doing this for 10 years now. As a member of the US armed forces Rik, you don't get a choice of what you help enforce. > Don't get me wrong. I'm not an anti American moron either. This > planet is full of slaves/sheep who are told they are free and they > believe it, told they are doing well and they believe that nonsense too > - on the surface at least. Pity is that a whole influx of youth arrives > every day that know no better and the downhill slide seems endless! Some people out there don't realize you can love/support your country while at the same time opposing/condemning wrongful actions by their leaders. Guess separating the two requires a little too much thought for some. Good to have ya back, Byron. :-) -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 16:19:53 GMT, The Black Cat =^..^= <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I'm 30 years out of college and, indeed have given up any ideas that >we, or any nation, can solve all the world's problems by throwing >money at them. But guess what? We can't solve problems by throwing >BOMBS at them either. > >The United States is ONE nation among many -- we just act like we're >the only one.

Much like the idiotic WW2 apologists, the "Softies" always seem to forget that we didn't incite this latest attack. The civilian scumbags of the countries that harbor these terrorists were dancing in the streets at the news of thousands of American civilians killed. If we didn't do something about it, the Washington Monument, Statue Of Liberty, Empire State Building and Sears Tower would also probably be smoking craters by now. Thank God we don't have a lame-ass pacifist like Al Gore in office. We sat there like a bunch of dorks when these fucks blew up the USS Kohl with Clinton in office. The WTC attack never would have happened if Bush had been in office and nipped the bullshit in the bud. We got so weak, we were attacked on our home soild for the first time in 50 years. That is why military spending and security is being ramped up. The first mistake you warm and fuzzy pukes make is assuming that all people think like us, because of the touchy-feely notion that we're all just dolphin-loving humans on this pretty blue marble in space. I have news for you Festering Uncle and Big Black Pussy, the people from Afghanistan don't think like you. While you're playing video games, they're learning to fire AK-47's. While you're beating off to porn on the internet, they're learning how to suicide bomb. They have lived and died war for over a thousand years, and know no other way. They think you're Satan incarnate, and in this one case, I just about agree with them. Burn In Hell you miserable, smarmy, apoligist fucks.

Captain America wrote:

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> > On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 16:19:53 GMT, The Black Cat =^..^= > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I'm 30 years out of college and, indeed have given up any ideas that > >we, or any nation, can solve all the world's problems by throwing > >money at them. But guess what? We can't solve problems by throwing > >BOMBS at them either. > > > >The United States is ONE nation among many -- we just act like we're > >the only one. > > Much like the idiotic WW2 apologists, the "Softies" always seem to > forget that we didn't incite this latest attack. > The civilian scumbags of the countries that harbor these terrorists > were dancing in the streets at the news of thousands of American > civilians killed. > > If we didn't do something about it, the Washington Monument, Statue Of > Liberty, Empire State Building and Sears Tower would also probably be > smoking craters by now. Thank God we don't have a lame-ass pacifist > like Al Gore in office. We sat there like a bunch of dorks when these > fucks blew up the USS Kohl with Clinton in office. > The WTC attack never would have happened if Bush had been in office > and nipped the bullshit in the bud. > We got so weak, we were attacked on our home soild for the first time > in 50 years. That is why military spending and security is being > ramped up. > > The first mistake you warm and fuzzy pukes make is assuming that all > people think like us, because of the touchy-feely notion that we're > all just dolphin-loving humans on this pretty blue marble in space. > I have news for you Festering Uncle and Big Black Pussy, the people > from Afghanistan don't think like you. While you're playing video > games, they're learning to fire AK-47's. While you're beating off to > porn on the internet, they're learning how to suicide bomb. They have > lived and died war for over a thousand years, and know no other way. > They think you're Satan incarnate, and in this one case, I just about > agree with them. Burn In Hell you miserable, smarmy, apoligist fucks.

Oh my gosh, darn, you really told them didn't you...my hero!! Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

'How to win freinds and influence people' mr captain .. i have to say you sound like pre ww2 nazi ... i bet u cant wait for america to murder its next 100,000 innocents "Captain America" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 16:19:53 GMT, The Black Cat =^..^= > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I'm 30 years out of college and, indeed have given up any ideas that > >we, or any nation, can solve all the world's problems by throwing > >money at them. But guess what? We can't solve problems by throwing > >BOMBS at them either. > > > >The United States is ONE nation among many -- we just act like we're > >the only one. > > Much like the idiotic WW2 apologists, the "Softies" always seem to > forget that we didn't incite this latest attack. > The civilian scumbags of the countries that harbor these terrorists > were dancing in the streets at the news of thousands of American > civilians killed. > > If we didn't do something about it, the Washington Monument, Statue Of > Liberty, Empire State Building and Sears Tower would also probably be > smoking craters by now. Thank God we don't have a lame-ass pacifist > like Al Gore in office. We sat there like a bunch of dorks when these > fucks blew up the USS Kohl with Clinton in office. > The WTC attack never would have happened if Bush had been in office > and nipped the bullshit in the bud. > We got so weak, we were attacked on our home soild for the first time > in 50 years. That is why military spending and security is being > ramped up. > > The first mistake you warm and fuzzy pukes make is assuming that all > people think like us, because of the touchy-feely notion that we're > all just dolphin-loving humans on this pretty blue marble in space. > I have news for you Festering Uncle and Big Black Pussy, the people > from Afghanistan don't think like you. While you're playing video > games, they're learning to fire AK-47's. While you're beating off to > porn on the internet, they're learning how to suicide bomb. They have > lived and died war for over a thousand years, and know no other way. > They think you're Satan incarnate, and in this one case, I just about > agree with them. Burn In Hell you miserable, smarmy, apoligist fucks. > >

"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Point is, that to be patriotic without amendment implies that you > would and do! > > Don't get me wrong. I'm not an anti American moron either. This > planet is full of slaves/sheep who are told they are free and they > believe it, told they are doing well and they believe that nonsense too > - on the surface at least. Pity is that a whole influx of youth arrives > every day that know no better and the downhill slide seems endless! >

Fair enough!.

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > rik zeppelin wrote: > > > > > > "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Just out of curiosity, would you play a role in the enforcing of > > > > economic sanctions that deprive babies of medication in Iraqihospitals?

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> > > > > > Uh, no Byron, I would not, nor does anyone I know. > > Byron Forbes wrote: > > > > Point is, that to be patriotic without amendment implies that you > > would and do! > > Absolutely. The US has been doing this for 10 years now. As a member > of the US armed forces Rik, you don't get a choice of what you help > enforce. > > > > Don't get me wrong. I'm not an anti American moron either. This > > planet is full of slaves/sheep who are told they are free and they > > believe it, told they are doing well and they believe that nonsense too > > - on the surface at least. Pity is that a whole influx of youth arrives > > every day that know no better and the downhill slide seems endless! > > > Some people out there don't realize you can love/support your country > while at the same time opposing/condemning wrongful actions by their > leaders. Guess separating the two requires a little too much thought > for some. >

Absolutely. I'm just not seeing these wrongful actions you speak of in the context of Bush's response to 9/11.

"The Black Cat =^..^=" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:52:17 GMT, "rik zeppelin" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >Name the dissidents Bush is oppressing. > > How about the nun who was arrested in Utah yesterday for protesting > the war? How about the man who carried a protest sign to a Bush > photo-op and was arrested and held for 24 hours and then released > without being charged with anything? > > The whole thrust of his administration is to identify HIS partisan > programs with the war on terror and with the nation itself. And to > oppose those policies is to be of questionable patriotism. >

Bullshit. What a weak response. Name the dissidents Bush is oppressing. Don't give me some lame ass musings about partisan programs.

On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 14:43:02 -0000, "Dan Leach" <[email hidden]> wrote: >'How to win freinds and influence people' > mr captain .. i have to say you sound like pre ww2 nazi ... i bet u cant >wait for america to murder its next 100,000 innocents The Jews didn't fly an airplane into a building in Berlin, "u" frigging idiot.

On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:29:38 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: >Oh my gosh, darn, you really told them didn't you...my hero!! Look, you guys are taking David G. Fishers side in this argument. If that doesn't tell you you're frigging wrong, what will?

The Black Cat =^..^= <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:52:17 GMT, "rik zeppelin" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >Name the dissidents Bush is oppressing. > > How about the nun who was arrested in Utah yesterday for protesting > the war?

Arrests like these are actually pre-planned by the protesters to draw publicity to their cause. The protesters are required by law to stay in certain areas to protest and in order to get arrested they will leave these areas. It creates an excellent photo-op and news story (nun being led away in handcuffs) for their cause to fool the more naive. This is obviously not oppression of their free speech. Just the opposite. > How about the man who carried a protest sign to a Bush > photo-op and was arrested and held for 24 hours and then released > without being charged with anything? Same thing here. The sign protesters are required to stay in certain areas per the Secret Service. If they leave the areas they are obviously going to be questioned by Secret Service. This is pretty standard security stuff and has been happening for years. I seem to recall a number of similar incidents between anti-Clinton protesters and security when Clinton was being impeached and accused of rape. BTM

"Brian McLeaney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The Black Cat =^..^= <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<[email hidden]>...

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> > On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:52:17 GMT, "rik zeppelin" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > >Name the dissidents Bush is oppressing. > > > > How about the nun who was arrested in Utah yesterday for protesting > > the war? > > Arrests like these are actually pre-planned by the protesters to draw > publicity to their cause. The protesters are required by law to stay > in certain areas to protest and in order to get arrested they will > leave these areas. It creates an excellent photo-op and news story > (nun being led away in handcuffs) for their cause to fool the more > naive. This is obviously not oppression of their free speech. Just the > opposite. > > > How about the man who carried a protest sign to a Bush > > photo-op and was arrested and held for 24 hours and then released > > without being charged with anything? > > Same thing here. The sign protesters are required to stay in certain > areas per the Secret Service. If they leave the areas they are > obviously going to be questioned by Secret Service. This is pretty > standard security stuff and has been happening for years. I seem to > recall a number of similar incidents between anti-Clinton protesters > and security when Clinton was being impeached and accused of rape. > > BTM

Don't confuse them with facts.... -- 9/11/01....Never forget Ken

errmm did i say that? "Captain America" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 14:43:02 -0000, "Dan Leach" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >'How to win freinds and influence people' > > mr captain .. i have to say you sound like pre ww2 nazi ... i bet ucant > >wait for america to murder its next 100,000 innocents > > The Jews didn't fly an airplane into a building in Berlin, "u" > frigging idiot. >

errmm did i say that? > On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 14:43:02 -0000, "Dan Leach" > >'How to win freinds and influence people' > > mr captain .. i have to say you sound like pre ww2 nazi ... i bet u cant > >wait for america to *** its next 100,000 innocents > The Jews didn't fly an airplane into a building in Berlin, "u" > frigging idiot.

The way i see it .. what america needs most is to diminish the numbers of anti americn terrorists around. There present policy is doing the opposite ... youve prolly killed a few hundred terrorist by now ... but i bet theres tons of nutters signing up for terrorist cells as we speak after whats been happening. The way its going ATM for every 100 you kill a 1000 will sign up. And the harder the policies get the worse it will be for you "Captain America" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 14:43:02 -0000, "Dan Leach" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >'How to win freinds and influence people' > > mr captain .. i have to say you sound like pre ww2 nazi ... i bet ucant > >wait for america to murder its next 100,000 innocents > > The Jews didn't fly an airplane into a building in Berlin, "u" > frigging idiot. >

Captain America wrote:

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> > On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:29:38 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Oh my gosh, darn, you really told them didn't you...my hero!! > > Look, you guys are taking David G. Fishers side in this argument. > If that doesn't tell you you're frigging wrong, what will?

Normally I'd agree with that :-), but like someone else already said, it must be possible to be critical of the way the US (or whoever) does things without being labeled anti-American, communist or whatever Some people, myself included to a certain extent, doesn't agree 100% about what's going on, just let me give you an example, more people die from AIDS *every* day than the number of people who died in the WTC attack, yet we don't see the same governments falling over each other to come up with a cure, or even making it possible for them do die a "decent" death in the meantime, in certain parts of Africa 30-40 % of the population has AIDS or HIV, and yes, at some point in the not too distant future I'll get to see up close what AIDS is all about, my 1st cousin has HIV Just trying to put things into perspective, nothing wrong about being proud to be an American (or something), but that doesn't automatically mean that those that don't agree with you 100% are against you, and when you make statements like.... --- The civilian scumbags of the countries that harbor these terrorists were dancing in the streets at the news of thousands of American civilians killed. --- I bet most people in Afghanistan didn't even know about the attack, many of them struggle just to stay alive in a country that has been at war for the past 20 years, their only crime being born in a country where the government thinks it's OK to kill their own citizens to meet their political/religious goals, and then the most powerful nation in the world starts dropping bombs on them A sad world indeed if you ask me, no, I don't consider myself anti-American, I'm anti-BS, oh, and I also don't like cruelty to animals :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Captain America? LOL! With a mind like you've expressed here it's not surprising you have no clue of the responsibility the U.S. bears for the history in the Middle East that motivates people to suicidal murder. I pray that enough of us in the U.S. will learn from the mistakes this country's leadership has made in our name to stand up and change the direction we are headed...assuming there is enough of a working democratic process left to make a difference after the president from Enron is gone. Marty Captain America wrote:

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> On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 16:19:53 GMT, The Black Cat =^..^= > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >I'm 30 years out of college and, indeed have given up any ideas that > >we, or any nation, can solve all the world's problems by throwing > >money at them. But guess what? We can't solve problems by throwing > >BOMBS at them either. > > > >The United States is ONE nation among many -- we just act like we're > >the only one. > > Much like the idiotic WW2 apologists, the "Softies" always seem to > forget that we didn't incite this latest attack. > The civilian scumbags of the countries that harbor these terrorists > were dancing in the streets at the news of thousands of American > civilians killed. > > If we didn't do something about it, the Washington Monument, Statue Of > Liberty, Empire State Building and Sears Tower would also probably be > smoking craters by now. Thank God we don't have a lame-ass pacifist > like Al Gore in office. We sat there like a bunch of dorks when these > fucks blew up the USS Kohl with Clinton in office. > The WTC attack never would have happened if Bush had been in office > and nipped the bullshit in the bud. > We got so weak, we were attacked on our home soild for the first time > in 50 years. That is why military spending and security is being > ramped up. > > The first mistake you warm and fuzzy pukes make is assuming that all > people think like us, because of the touchy-feely notion that we're > all just dolphin-loving humans on this pretty blue marble in space. > I have news for you Festering Uncle and Big Black Pussy, the people > from Afghanistan don't think like you. While you're playing video > games, they're learning to fire AK-47's. While you're beating off to > porn on the internet, they're learning how to suicide bomb. They have > lived and died war for over a thousand years, and know no other way. > They think you're Satan incarnate, and in this one case, I just about > agree with them. Burn In Hell you miserable, smarmy, apoligist fucks.

Dan Leach wrote: > The way i see it .. what america needs most is to diminish the numbers of > anti americn terrorists around. There present policy is doing the opposite > ... youve prolly killed a few hundred terrorist by now ... but i bet theres > tons of nutters signing up for terrorist cells as we speak after whats been > happening. The way its going ATM for every 100 you kill a 1000 will sign up. > And the harder the policies get the worse it will be for you But the better it will be for the President from Enron's ratings...unless the tide of xenophobic super patriotism becomes a sane analysis of the problem. Marty

Hey Captain Fuckhead, all I've done in this thread is post a link with no comment and you think you know my views on this subject? I'm sure you're some well known r.a.s. asshole who's hiding behind a cute nickname. Why don't you tell us who you really are? Pretty cowardly thing for Captain America to do. David G Fisher "Captain America" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:29:38 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Oh my gosh, darn, you really told them didn't you...my hero!! > > Look, you guys are taking David G. Fishers side in this argument. > If that doesn't tell you you're frigging wrong, what will? >

David G Fisher wrote:

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> > Hey Captain Fuckhead, all I've done in this thread is post a link with no > comment and you think you know my views on this subject? > > I'm sure you're some well known r.a.s. asshole who's hiding behind a cute > nickname. Why don't you tell us who you really are? > > Pretty cowardly thing for Captain America to do.

Kinda typical, ain't it? :-) -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

Captain America wrote: > > I have news for you Festering Uncle and Big Black Pussy, the people > from Afghanistan don't think like you. I agree, they don't think like me Princess America. They are the same kind of animal you are. Kill their kids & they come looking to burn your ass. You sound much more like the Taliban than I do. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

Brian McLeaney wrote:

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> > The Black Cat =^..^= <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:52:17 GMT, "rik zeppelin" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > >Name the dissidents Bush is oppressing. > > > > How about the nun who was arrested in Utah yesterday for protesting > > the war? > > Arrests like these are actually pre-planned by the protesters to draw > publicity to their cause. The protesters are required by law to stay > in certain areas to protest and in order to get arrested they will > leave these areas. It creates an excellent photo-op and news story > (nun being led away in handcuffs) for their cause to fool the more > naive. This is obviously not oppression of their free speech. Just the > opposite. > > > How about the man who carried a protest sign to a Bush > > photo-op and was arrested and held for 24 hours and then released > > without being charged with anything? > > Same thing here. The sign protesters are required to stay in certain > areas per the Secret Service. If they leave the areas they are > obviously going to be questioned by Secret Service. This is pretty > standard security stuff and has been happening for years. I seem to > recall a number of similar incidents between anti-Clinton protesters > and security when Clinton was being impeached and accused of rape.

Yeah, keeping those who wish to express views that are in opposition to our government way out of sight of others by restricting their movements has been done for years. It still doesn't make it right. And it's only getting worse. Time to either condemn or be an apologist. <Can't wait for later this week & the release of N2k2! Think things will calm down then? :-P > -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > Hey Captain Fuckhead, all I've done in this thread is post a link withno > > comment and you think you know my views on this subject? > > > > I'm sure you're some well known r.a.s. asshole who's hiding behind acute

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> > nickname. Why don't you tell us who you really are? > > > > Pretty cowardly thing for Captain America to do. > > > Kinda typical, ain't it? :-) > > -- > > Fester

It's amazing that he thought no one would notice. There's too many nitwits like him unfortunately, so you might have to accept the fact that it may be 10-20 years before your views are understood by most. David G Fisher

"> on the freedom of Americans? Walter Williams had a very good column > today on the subject of whether or not the solutions being used are > either appropriate or proportionate. He said they were neither and I > agree. How the hell would he know? Is he in the inner loop of confidential US security information? No hes' not, nor 99.9.8 of the world population. Christ fear those that claim they have all the answers.

"Trapper" wrote... > > <snip> > How the hell would he know? Is he in the inner loop of > confidential US security information? > No hes' not, nor 99.9.8 of the world population. Christ > fear those that claim they have all the answers. There's 1.24 million people (0.02% of world population) in the inner circles of the US security service? -Wow!! ;-) Jan. =--- "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn.

Ya ,ya ,ya , I think you get the thrust of my comment. If only if the alleged "facts" in this thread could be as precise. ; ) Anyways the political threads in the newsgroup do not help my GPL or F1 2001 setups so who cares, I get tired of the propaganda and could not help myself. My fault for not resisting. Damn trolls.........................> "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> "Trapper" wrote... > > > <snip> > > How the hell would he know? Is he in the inner loop of > > confidential US security information? > > No hes' not, nor 99.9.8 of the world population. Christ > > fear those that claim they have all the answers. > > There's 1.24 million people (0.02% of world population) in the inner

circles

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> of the US security service? -Wow!! ;-) > > Jan. > =--- > "Pay attention when I'm talking to you boy!" -Foghorn Leghorn. > > > >

*LOL* this just has got to be some European trying to make all you US guys look stupid. Not a nice trick.. but fun ;) Mikkel Gotta love details like the Captain America sig.

Don't worry Ken, Rik is not actually understanding any of this anyway. I believe he saw something on Jerry Springer regarding the whole thing and is quoting that from memory. It is sad that someone from a country with such relatively high educational standards as the US, can be so narrowminded and so unable to seperate fact from the fiction seen on TV. Mikkel Ken Beard <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7Cw98.32739$[email hidden]...

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> "Brian McLeaney" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > The Black Cat =^..^= <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:<[email hidden]>... > > > On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:52:17 GMT, "rik zeppelin" > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Name the dissidents Bush is oppressing. > > > > > > How about the nun who was arrested in Utah yesterday for protesting > > > the war? > > > > Arrests like these are actually pre-planned by the protesters to draw > > publicity to their cause. The protesters are required by law to stay > > in certain areas to protest and in order to get arrested they will > > leave these areas. It creates an excellent photo-op and news story > > (nun being led away in handcuffs) for their cause to fool the more > > naive. This is obviously not oppression of their free speech. Just the > > opposite. > > > > > How about the man who carried a protest sign to a Bush > > > photo-op and was arrested and held for 24 hours and then released > > > without being charged with anything? > > > > Same thing here. The sign protesters are required to stay in certain > > areas per the Secret Service. If they leave the areas they are > > obviously going to be questioned by Secret Service. This is pretty > > standard security stuff and has been happening for years. I seem to > > recall a number of similar incidents between anti-Clinton protesters > > and security when Clinton was being impeached and accused of rape. > > > > BTM > > Don't confuse them with facts.... > > > -- > 9/11/01....Never forget > > Ken > > >

You are just the type of guy the rest of us fear will one day take over the US... to an even greater extend than it happened when Mr. Bush stepped in. He is a liability to the whole planet. ... but I guess you will make a good frontline soldier. Don't think any independent thoughts, be gung-ho and just do what TV ( or your officer) tells you to do. Mikkel > > Jason > So, why don't you stand up for your beliefs and go join the terroristslike

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> johnny walker, or the kid in florida? > Don't you have the balls to stand up for your beliefs? > > I'll tell you what, If my country calls me to action I will be there in a > New York minute. > >

I bet a special unit with you and Mr. Zeppelin could just wipe out all them damn terrorist and foreigners and aliens and people and the planet and... I say Captain America for president, then it will all be over in a few days anyway nuke'em I say, nuke'em all. Go play the fool somewhere else Captain No-Clue, this is not alt.america.radical.right.wing.extremist.idiots Mikkel PS: and yes, I actually do find the US a great nation in many ways... Captain America <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > The Jews didn't fly an airplane into a building in Berlin, "u" > frigging idiot. >

> Good. I'm tired of us taking crap from 2 bit nations. Its time to start > kicking some ass. > "To preserve the peace is to prepare for war" Wow what an insight you must have in global politics.... NOT I guess your quote says it all, lets burn some more villages to save them eh? Believing in a quote like the one you just posted says it all I guess. You have a lot in common with the hardcore Talebans. Why don't you read the article and respond to what it is you find factually wrong there ?? America IS a great nation, no argument there... but wake up and smell the coffee, you yourself have outfitted the sick bastards who now have turned on their former master. You yourself have been a very active player in the complex politics that led to this. Mikkel Believe it or not.. no offense intended to any "normal" americans, sometimes the patriotic extremists just drives me nuts ;)

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Captain America wrote: > > > > On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:29:38 +0100, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Oh my gosh, darn, you really told them didn't you...my hero!! > > > > Look, you guys are taking David G. Fishers side in this argument. > > If that doesn't tell you you're frigging wrong, what will? > > Normally I'd agree with that :-), but like someone else already said, it > must be possible to be critical of the way the US (or whoever) does > things without being labeled anti-American, communist or whatever > > Some people, myself included to a certain extent, doesn't agree 100% > about what's going on, just let me give you an example, more people die > from AIDS *every* day than the number of people who died in the WTC > attack, yet we don't see the same governments falling over each other to > come up with a cure, or even making it possible for them do die a > "decent" death in the meantime, in certain parts of Africa 30-40 % of > the population has AIDS or HIV, and yes, at some point in the not too > distant future I'll get to see up close what AIDS is all about, my 1st > cousin has HIV

100,000 people in Africa die preventable deaths each day due to starvation and disease. 10 kids die each day in the U.S. due to handguns, but the only time we get weepy over it and make a big emotional display of concern is when all 10 die in a high school at the same time. Of course we then blame the media and do nothing. David G Fisher

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> Just trying to put things into perspective, nothing wrong about being > proud to be an American (or something), but that doesn't automatically > mean that those that don't agree with you 100% are against you, and when > you make statements like.... > --- > The civilian scumbags of the countries that harbor these terrorists > were dancing in the streets at the news of thousands of American > civilians killed. > --- > > I bet most people in Afghanistan didn't even know about the attack, many > of them struggle just to stay alive in a country that has been at war > for the past 20 years, their only crime being born in a country where > the government thinks it's OK to kill their own citizens to meet their > political/religious goals, and then the most powerful nation in the > world starts dropping bombs on them > > A sad world indeed if you ask me, no, I don't consider myself > anti-American, I'm anti-BS, oh, and I also don't like cruelty to animals > :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * > "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

> 6) We didn't kill 7,000-10,000 Somalis? Look at the bright side Mr. Thompson, you will now soon be able to go to the cinema and watch "Black Hawk Down 2", this time with a "happy" ending... I quote the admirable Captain America.... "The civilian scumbags of the countries that harbor these terrorists were dancing in the streets at the news of thousands of American civilians killed." For heavens sake, the US propaganda industry makes good old entertaining patriotic movies when you bomb an underdeveloped nation, and yet you complain that some people were rejoicing when the US they see as their enemy got a knife in the back at September 11. Take a long hard look at the US reactions when the first strikes on Afghanistan was reported. And take an even longer harder look at the biased stuff that will pollute the cinema's the next years. We all are human and we all are guilty of liking it when our percieved enemy gets a beating... Talebans, Americans, Danes and the guys at the South Pole. We all have an urge for revenge when we are done wrong and I very well understand the lust in the US for lynching the responsible. But (and this is an important "but") we in the "free" world have chosen a select few to guide us... the politicians. It is the damned job of these politicians to do what is right, not what is lusted for... that's why we picked them, because we believed them to be worthy of making the right choices for us. When these leaders start crumbling to their lust for revenge and heroics they no longer deserve this trust and they no longer are fit to make our choices. Leaders are for stopping lynch mobs, not incite them as Mr. Bush is doing. What is the morale of this rant... I'm not even sure I knowmyself, but it's probably something like this advice to Mr. Bush: "Do not abuse the sympathy and cooperation from most of this planet, in order to fullfill your natural, very and understandable, lust for revenge. Do what IS right, not what FEELS right at this emotional moment in time. It takes a true leader to make people accept the politics of what is right instead of going on pure instinct, this is your shot at showing the rest of us that you are a man worthy of your presidential seat." Mikkel

rik zeppelin <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:xxR88.120432$[email hidden]... > Our coutry rocks. > I'm damn proud to be an American. Please leave those poor victims and their families alone now, and stop abusing the memory of them. Just think of it... You are using a tattered flag that symbolizes the death of thousands, as a rallying point for blind patriotism and for a prolonged war that WILL kill thousands and thousands of innocent bystanders.... Do you bloodthirsty idiots (Rik & Captain America) really believe that the unjustifiable and horroble killing of thousands of american citizens, justifies the bombing and killing of innumerable innocents in the so-called "war on terrorists" ?? If so, then the �bermensch theory lives proud once again in your minds. The �bermensch is worth more than other people of lesser nations and lesser races... and killing these lesser people is justifiable, it's all in the name of peace and world order. This time the �bermensch theory is an American concept... a very sad & frightening thought. This ought to be a time of mourning and reflection, not a time for more killing. Show the victims from that fatefull day in September some proper respect dammit... ! Mikkel PS: Captain America and Rik, you need not respond that vengeance is your show of respect... that sort of goes without saying.

> Just out of curiosity, would you play a role in the enforcing of > economic sanctions that deprive babies of medication in Iraqi hospitals? Just out of curiousity, if Saddam H. can afford to rebuild his military, why isn't he paying for the meds for his own citizens? ~daxe

> Just out of curiousity, if Saddam H. can afford to rebuild his military,why > isn't he paying for the meds for his own citizens? > > ~daxe He wears the black hat you know.... not a nice guy by anyones standard. He simply does not give a damn and we ought to stay above his standards. Mikkel

I'm not 100% sure about this topic at the moment, but my current understanding is as follows. As a result of U.S. (U.N., NATO, etc) sanctions against Iraq, which include the importation of drugs of the developed world, there are children, obviously oblivious to the stupidity of those who have gone before them (both sides of fence), lying screaming and dying in hospitals all across Iraq. To say that Saddam is solely responsible for that is the spontaneous dribble of a fool. An economic sanction means that, no matter how much money you have, you can't import this and that! Right? A couple of questions 1/ How many people in the U.S. are currently being punished by having their children deprived of needed medication? 2/ Why should these Iraqi children be punished for the gutless failure to kill Saddam by the U.N. forces. They were knocking on his door when some genius said "Nah, I've had enough. Lets go home and have a beer". Then the betrayal of the Curds.............. When do the right people get screwed here? Personally, I cut myself away spiritually and economically from the anglo saxon/white english speaking world (hmmm, I'll have to revise this because the head of the U.N. is a black man last I looked) a couple of decades ago now. This type of obscenity reminds me I'm on the right path. daxe wrote:

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> > > Just out of curiosity, would you play a role in the enforcing of > > economic sanctions that deprive babies of medication in Iraqi hospitals? > > Just out of curiousity, if Saddam H. can afford to rebuild his military, why > isn't he paying for the meds for his own citizens? > > ~daxe

"Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3c673c4d$0$89118$[email hidden]... > Don't worry Ken, Rik is not actually understanding any of this anyway. > I believe he saw something on Jerry Springer regarding the whole thing and > is quoting that from memory. > > It is sad that someone from a country with such relatively higheducational > standards as the US, can be so narrowminded and so unable to seperatefact > from the fiction seen on TV. >Thats funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing about you guys.

On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 23:57:45 +1100, Byron Forbes <[email hidden]> wrote: ... > 2/ Why should these Iraqi children be punished for the gutless >failure to kill Saddam by the U.N. forces. Probably not a failure but intended; it's easier to have a known person in a country that has a very bad reputation and have constraints that last and last (the sanctions) than to kill Saddam, have somebody step into his place, and have to deal with somebody with a cleaner slate. Too bad that often the word 'God' and 'religion' falls when people talk about ideologies; I'd rather have it that people not use that to back them up but come to their conclusions based on their own thinking about the way people should interact. Ruud van Gaal Free car sim: http://www.racer.nl/ Pencil art : http://www.marketgraph.nl/gallery/

"rik zeppelin" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:tKQ98.113195$[email hidden]...

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> > "Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3c673c4d$0$89118$[email hidden]... > > Don't worry Ken, Rik is not actually understanding any of this anyway. > > I believe he saw something on Jerry Springer regarding the whole thing and > > is quoting that from memory. > > > > It is sad that someone from a country with such relatively high > educational > > standards as the US, can be so narrowminded and so unable to seperate > fact > > from the fiction seen on TV. > > > Thats funny, I was thinking exactly the same thing about you guys. >

Zing! Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Mr. Busybody Gram-Hansen! You have been Zeppelined! :-) How on Earth will you be able to live with yourself now? /Jens "Det du siger, er du selv!"

On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 04:25:50 +0100, "Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>*LOL* this just has got to be some European trying to make all you US guys >look stupid. >Not a nice trick.. but fun ;) > >Mikkel > >Gotta love details like the Captain America sig.

Actually, I am American. Unfortunately, as you can see, it's no big trick to make many Americans look stupid, particularly liberals like Fester and Black Cat. They're scumbags that probably haven't ever been out of the states to realize how good things are here. Cat is probably a liberal arts major that joined a community college to avoid the draft. They're mad about security being stepped up in the US, despite the blatantly obvious fact that the planes flown into the WTC took off from American soil. The terrorists are already operating here, you fucking dinks, THAT's why security needs to be strong here, not because we're Nazi's. Some other jackass keeps spouting off about Enron, as that had ANY fucking thing to do with all this. It's pathetic.

David G Fisher wrote: > > Hey Captain Fuckhead, all I've done in this thread is post a link with no > comment and you think you know my views on this subject? You did comment, you complete and utter twat! You posted the link, then you said, "A little reality to go along with all the patriotism." That's a comment in my book!

"rik zeppelin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<wtc98.98762$[email hidden]>... > So, why don't you stand up for your beliefs and go join the terrorists like > johnny walker, or the kid in florida? Because I don't agree with the terrorists. I think you're misreading what I wrote. I think that their actions are completely justified in light of the fact that the deaths on 9/11 pale in comparison to the terror we've unleashed on the world, but I can't wholeheartedly support violence of any sort. I feel pretty strongly that Osama Bin Laden, George HW Bush, and Ariel Sharon (god I miss Rabin) should be tried in an international court for their crimes against humanity. > Don't you have the balls to stand up for your beliefs? My beliefs are that violence accomplishes nothing and that there are very few times in the history of the world when it was necessary (the Battle of Britain for example). So what should I do to stand up for my beliefs? I can't think of a particularly radical way to express pacifism unless I become a stereotypically hypocritical neo-hippie. I have considered running for office but really, in a country of trend-following war mongerers, what's the point? There are already plenty of Michael Moores in this country. It would be nice if the US were the Land of the Free that our slave-owning forefathers envisioned <sic> but in reality, our all-out policing of the globe in the name of freedom and justice is akin to a parent who smokes 2 packs a day telling their kid that smoking is bad. Unfortunately, propaganda speaks louder than actions. Personally, I'd just like to be put into a controlled coma until we have President Hillary, since she's the only person I can think of with a snail's chance of ever being elected here who would have the 'balls' to stand up against idiocy (including the destruction of the working class by her husband). It would absolutely rule to have a president who wasn't having their cock sucked by the CEO's of GM and Ford. Are you familiar with the huge tax refunds George II has given corporations in the past year in order to try and fix the economy? I'm still wondering how building new auto factories in Mexico is going to get things rolling here. 3 cheers for trickle down economics. > I'll tell you what, If my country calls me to action I will be there in a > New York minute. Good for you. If being reprogrammed into a human target is something that you would enjoy, go for it. I'd rather spend as much time as I can with the people I care about then be sent off into the desert to fight meaningless battles for Enron, Exxon, and Unocal. Jason

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > Hey Captain Fuckhead, all I've done in this thread is post a link withno > > comment and you think you know my views on this subject? > > You did comment, you complete and utter twat! You posted the link, then > you said, "A little reality to go along with all the patriotism." > > That's a comment in my book! Take your medication. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's you who's Captain Fuckhead. David G Fisher

David G Fisher wrote:

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> > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > > > Hey Captain Fuckhead, all I've done in this thread is post a link with > no > > > comment and you think you know my views on this subject? > > > > You did comment, you complete and utter twat! You posted the link, then > > you said, "A little reality to go along with all the patriotism." > > > > That's a comment in my book! > > Take your medication. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's you who's > Captain Fuckhead.

Hey Captain Fishhead, all I've done in this thread is point out that you DID make a comment as well as post a link and you think you know my views on this subject? I bet you're Captain Fuckhead, bored of trolling others you now troll yourself instead. You utter, utter, utter wanker! Yours sneeringly GDA

"Subject: Cruise to Afganistan NOTICE FROM CARNIVAL CRUISE LINES Cruise to Afghanistan! We at Carnival Cruise Lines didn't forget that a lot of entertainers promised to leave the country if George W. Bush became President. With that in mind, we have a Special Offer for those who want to keep their promise! Attention: Alec Baldwin, Rosie O'Donnell, Cher, Phil Donahue, David Gephin, Barbara Streisand, Pierre Salinger, and anyone else who made that promise, please dispose of all US assets and report to Florida for the sailing of the Funship Cruise, "Elation," which has been commissioned to take you to your new vacation homes in Afghanistan. You may opt to be dropped off in Somalia or Iraq. The Florida Supreme Court will sponsor a Farewell Parade in your honor through Palm Beach, Broward, and Miami-Dade counties prior to your cruise. Please pack for an extended stay--at least four years--and consider the possibility of eight years. Note: Since you advocate strict gun control, you may not bring any. Staffing your voyage is: Bill Clinton as Captain, Al Gore as Cruise Director, Monica Lewinsky as Recreation Director, Ted Kennedy as Lifeguard and Emergency Procedures Director, Rev. Jesse Jackson as Spiritual Advisor and Marriage Counselor, and Congressman Gary Condit as Intern Coordinator. If you have any questions about making arrangements for your homes, friends, and loved ones, please direct your comments to Senator Hillary Clinton. Her village can raise your children while you're gone, and she can watch over all your money and your furnishings. Bon Voyage! It's a great country

Captain America <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Actually, I am American. Unfortunately, as you can see, it's no big > trick to make many Americans look stupid, particularly liberals like > Fester and Black Cat. Please tell me you're not one of those morons who sees the world as either conservative or liberal. Democratic Presidents have started more armed conflicts than any other party (at least modern, liberal Democrats). Roosevelt wanted to get involved in World War II but Americans didn't want a part of it. He tried to instigate Germany, hoping they'd attack the boats of supplies we were giving England, but Hitler knew better than to provoke us. So, instead, he neglected to tell the navy stationed at Pearl Harbor about an advancing Japanese fleet (which we had known about over a week prior to the incident) knowing that the complete and utter obliteration of our forces, by surprise, would convince Americans to fight. Lyndon Johnson wanted a justification for a war in Vietnam, so he sent ships into the Gulf of Tonkin trying to provoke an attack. While there's still speculation as to whether we were attacked first, regardless, Johnson turned it into a media event and garnered support for the Vietnam war (if we had realized then the importance of media blackouts during war, such as those we've been using since the Gulf War, I bet we would've been in Vietnam at least until Reagan's presidency). Clinton was possibly even worse than Roosevelt and Johnson, launching missile strikes on Sudan, sending troops into Kosovo, etc. I think Clinton might be the one recent president who I think would've acted even faster than Bush did in terms of retaliation, having learned his mistake after the Sudanese aspirin factory incident. So anyway, 3 of our most liberal presidents were more than willing to use completely unnecessary brute force when they felt like it. Saying that anti-war = liberal is a pile of bullshit. Really in this day and age there is practically no difference between liberals and conservatives anyway. They're one huge party of corporate-backed scumbags who are trying to eliminate the middle class and anyone whose views are unlike theirs. Want something censored? Chances are you'll be getting backed by a liberal (Joseph Lieberman). > They're scumbags that probably haven't ever been > out of the states to realize how good things are here. I guess if not having a job, having Christianity and homophobia constantly shoved down your throat, and having nearly 50% of the white population still believing slavery was a good idea and waving their gay Confederate flags are 'good things', then you have a point. When people make comments like yours, it's amusing, because they always make comparisons to 3rd world nations. Why? Because the United States is nearly dead last in all social progress among first world nations. The way religion dictates social policy here is ridiculous, and not something you'd see in say England or Germany. The mass exodus of scientists and philosophers from this country because Judeo-Christian leaders won't allow them to do their work is reminiscent of the exodus of German thinkers escaping Hitler in the mid-1930's. If Bush somehow gets re-elected (which I find unlikely, since the American economy will get worse before 2004 if his economic policies so far are an indication) then it's very possible that by 2008 scientific and philosophic progress in the United States will practically grind to a halt, at least in terms of medicine. If a cure for cancer is found within the next 100 years, there is *no* chance of it being discovered by an American working in the United States. Why? Because our politicians are more interested in leading the new Crusades than progressing civilization. > Cat is probably a liberal arts major that joined a community college > to avoid the draft. The draft? We haven't had a draft, or come close to one, since Vietnam. Unless Bush magically pulls a huge budget surplus out of his ass, I find it unlikely anyone will allow one to happen again. The hippies who protested the Vietnam war were a very small minority compared to the number of anti-war people living here now, and I'd be willing to bet that the institution of a draft for the War on American-made Terror would lead to an all-out revolution. > They're mad about security being stepped up in the US, despite the > blatantly obvious fact that the planes flown into the WTC took off > from American soil. I blame the airlines. If the heads of airlines would invest some of their seven figure salaries into hiring a few hundred armed security guards it would've never happened. Of course, they've already managed to convince Congress to give them money by conducting layoffs that were going to happen regardless of 9/11 (in addition to pulling a nice media stunt and blaming 9/11 for the layoffs). Thank God corporations dictate policy in America, or we'd be in a whole pile of hot water! > he terrorists are already operating here, you > fucking dinks They were also trained here at Fort Bragg using your (or, based on your tone, your parents') tax money. Were you alive during the 80's? There was even a fun song by the Dead Kennedys about it... > HAT's why security needs to be strong here, not > because we're Nazi's. > me other jackass keeps spouting off about > Enron, as that had ANY fucking thing to do with all this. They're an energy company. We had already been planning to invade Afghanistan in March of 2001 at the behest of energy companies who wanted an oil pipeline run through Afghanistan, but couldn't have it while the Taliban was in power. Not to sound paranoid (and I don't believe this myself) but wouldn't it RULE if your government blew up the World Trade Center in order to justify an already planned war in Afghanistan? "But wait," you say, "you'd have to be nuts to believe our own government would do something like that." Ever read the unclassified Operation Northwoods documents? Hmmmm.... What's a few thousand people for a whole lot of oil, money, and opium? Jason (still wondering why a plot hatched in Afghanistan culminated in the arrests of hundreds of Saudis and Israelis, rather than Afghanis...and still waiting for this proof of Bin Laden's involvement that we had in September but still hasn't surfaced)

Captain America wrote: > > Actually, I am American. Unfortunately, as you can see, it's no big > trick to make many Americans look stupid, particularly liberals like > Fester and Black Cat. Back for more Princess America? If liberalism is demanding Freedom of Speech to be actually that & not have anything unsavory by current governmental standards censored & shut down, then you can poke your Conservatism up you tight little a$$hole! -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

"Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3c674edb$0$89074$[email hidden]...

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> rik zeppelin <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:xxR88.120432$[email hidden]... > > Our coutry rocks. > > I'm damn proud to be an American. > > > Please leave those poor victims and their families alone now, and stop > abusing the memory of them. >

Your a real jack ass aren't you.

[email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Roosevelt wanted to get involved in World War II but > Americans didn't want a part of it. He tried to instigate Germany, > hoping they'd attack the boats of supplies we were giving England, but > Hitler knew better than to provoke us. So, instead, he neglected to > tell the navy stationed at Pearl Harbor about an advancing Japanese > fleet (which we had known about over a week prior to the incident) I'll never understand why this garbage keeps getting repeated. The US knew nothing about the approach of the Kido Butai. How could we? It was the best kept secret of a people very, very good at keeping secrets. Add to this the utter stupidity of beginning a war with most of your heavy units on the bottom of the harbor and you have got to wonder why anyone with more than two functioning synapeses would say such things. Folks, the Japanese did not reveal themselves, we did not detect them and only an utter, total, complete moron would Just Let It Happen (tm). Larry J

"Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3c67a0f7$0$245$[email hidden]...

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> > Just out of curiousity, if Saddam H. can afford to rebuild his military, > why > > isn't he paying for the meds for his own citizens? > > > > ~daxe > > He wears the black hat you know.... not a nice guy by anyones standard. > He simply does not give a damn and we ought to stay above his standards.

but that still doesnt make his citizens out respobnsibility ~daxe

"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I'm not 100% sure about this topic at the moment, but my current > understanding is as follows. Im not sure either, but I do know that if SH has the where withall to get stuff to build up his military, which I am sure is also denied him, then he can get the meds, too. > An economic sanction means > that, no matter how much money you have, you can't import this and that! > Right? I think it is not a blanket sanction, but rather a prohibition of Iraq selling its oil to get monies to buy what they want. I am further sure that someone is buying their oil anyways. > A couple of questions 1/ How many people in the U.S. are currently > being punished by having their children deprived of needed medication? depends on who you ask. some people think health care is a right, so they would say there are plenty. > 2/ Why should these Iraqi children be punished for the gutless > failure to kill Saddam by the U.N. forces. They were knocking on his > door when some genius said "Nah, I've had enough. Lets go home and have > a beer". Then the betrayal of the Curds.............. When do the right > people get screwed here? Iraqi children are not being punished by anyone but the people whose responsibility it is to care for them. > Personally, I cut myself away spiritually and economically from the > anglo saxon/white english speaking world (hmmm, I'll have to revise this > because the head of the U.N. is a black man last I looked) a couple of > decades ago now. This type of obscenity reminds me I'm on the right > path. so you steal the simulators you drive and only steal those written by your approved minorities? ~daxe

"rik zeppelin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<YfZ98.115590$[email hidden]>... > You may opt to be dropped off in Somalia or Iraq. I love how every single American twit tries to show how mighty and good the United States is by comparing us to third world nations. Your example is even better since both of those countries largely suck because of our meddling (I'm talking historically long-term here, not just recently, although that applies too). Why doesn't your spam use England or Germany instead? Or France, mmmm. Or Belgium, or Luxembourg, or Austria, or Spain, or Ireland, or Denmark, or Norway, or Sweden (mmm...neutrality + an air force to die for) or the other 5 million places that would be perfectly comparable to America in terms of the standard of living. Oh yeah, it wouldn't be mindless "look at how good we've got it" propaganda then. I'd take a one-way ticket to London or Berlin or Stockholm or Vienna or Paris or Amsterdam or <insert moderately large European or Canadian city here> any damn day of the week. Heck, give me a free trip to a remote location in Sweden and an opportunity to fly the Gripen or the Viggen for a living and I'd be in heaven. And while I'm ranting, someone should produce a Swedish Air Force flight sim. Jason

[email hidden] (Brian McLeaney) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > I seem to > recall a number of similar incidents between anti-Clinton protesters > and security when Clinton was being impeached and accused of rape. Uh, rape? Oral sex between consenting adults may be illegal in 3/4th of the United States (including DC IIRC) but it's hardly rape. Sure, cheating on someone, especially a kickass woman like Hillary, makes Bill a real dirtbag in my book, not to mention that he lied about it under oath, but the real sleazebags in that situation were the people who were asking him questions about his sex life to begin with. One second American politicians want to rid the earth of pornography, the next they waste my taxable income to investigate someone's private sex life. It's sort of like funding terrorism while...er, n/m I won't go there. Jason

daxe wrote:

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> > "Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:3c67a0f7$0$245$[email hidden]... > > > Just out of curiousity, if Saddam H. can afford to rebuild his military, > > why > > > isn't he paying for the meds for his own citizens? > > > > > > ~daxe > > > > He wears the black hat you know.... not a nice guy by anyones standard. > > He simply does not give a damn and we ought to stay above his standards. > > but that still doesnt make his citizens out respobnsibility > > ~daxe

Maybe they are not our responsibility. But that still does not give us the right to forbid anyone from providing their children needed medicines. That country cannot meet all it's needs internally, it needs help from the outside. Just like we cannot meet all our *oil* needs. Any regular citizens who at one time may have supported us privately likely do not do so anymore because of this. The US has a bad habit of turning it's friends into enemies. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

Byron Forbes wrote:

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> > I'm not 100% sure about this topic at the moment, but my current > understanding is as follows. > > As a result of U.S. (U.N., NATO, etc) sanctions against Iraq, > which include the importation of drugs of the developed world, there are > children, obviously oblivious to the stupidity of those who have gone > before them (both sides of fence), lying screaming and dying in > hospitals all across Iraq. To say that Saddam is solely responsible for > that is the spontaneous dribble of a fool. An economic sanction means > that, no matter how much money you have, you can't import this and that! > Right? > > A couple of questions 1/ How many people in the U.S. are currently > being punished by having their children deprived of needed medication?

If you're a minority or poor-white, way too many unfortunately. Too many believe only the better off deserve health care. All humans deserve it. Try getting health care if you have no insurance & no job! I was homeless at one time, about 15 years ago, so I know first hand how we treat these people. > 2/ Why should these Iraqi children be punished for the gutless > failure to kill Saddam by the U.N. forces. They were knocking on his > door when some genius said "Nah, I've had enough. Lets go home and have > a beer". Then the betrayal of the Curds.............. When do the right > people get screwed here? Most likely because the Kurds are the wrong race. >:-/ You don't see us doing these things to European countries. (Not that I think we *should* mind you!) > > Personally, I cut myself away spiritually and economically from the > anglo saxon/white english speaking world (hmmm, I'll have to revise this > because the head of the U.N. is a black man last I looked) a couple of > decades ago now. This type of obscenity reminds me I'm on the right > path. Amen. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

"Larry W. Jewell" wrote:

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> > [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > > Roosevelt wanted to get involved in World War II but > > Americans didn't want a part of it. He tried to instigate Germany, > > hoping they'd attack the boats of supplies we were giving England, but > > Hitler knew better than to provoke us. So, instead, he neglected to > > tell the navy stationed at Pearl Harbor about an advancing Japanese > > fleet (which we had known about over a week prior to the incident) > > I'll never understand why this garbage keeps getting repeated. The US > knew nothing about the approach of the Kido Butai. How could we? It > was the best kept secret of a people very, very good at keeping > secrets. Add to this the utter stupidity of beginning a war with most > of your heavy units on the bottom of the harbor and you have got to > wonder why anyone with more than two functioning synapeses would say > such things.

The US are hardly strangers in provoking others to attack us. We employ these measures in order to help stir our half-illiterate populace into a war-frenzy so our Govt can pursue those they wish to in an almost unlimited manner. We knew these attacks were coming. Long before the internet, back in the 1960's, my mother had told me about it. How we had imposed economic sanctions on Japan (apparently we didn't agree with their form of govt. Who the hell are WE to dictate to them how they govern themselves??) , how the Japanese leaders had come here trying to find a way out & then leaving in disgust when we refused. What do you think will happen when one country tries to starve another out & that country has enough resources to mount an attack? This isn't Rocket Science here folks. It was a deliberate provocation by the US. What really floors me is that not a single person here has mentioned how we got involved in the Gulf War. Nobody recalls the name April Glaspie? Saddam, who we backed & supported for many years, asked our opinion/permission on invading what he felt were "stolen" oil fields in Kuwait. He was told by the US we had no interest & basically gave him the green light to proceed. Once he did just that, we go freaking ballistic! The rest, as they say, is history... > ....only an utter, total, complete moron would Just Let It Happen > (tm). Welcome to the Government of the United States. (The United Police States of America) -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

Try, try, try to separate yourself from the guilt. At least you're intelligent enough to feel some. Assuming you're a citizen of a NATO country, and a tax payer as well, THEN YOU ARE GUILTY! And I won't get into an argument with you about degrees of guilt. Trying to stick it all on Saddam is hopelessly crude and convenient. As for your assertion that I'm a thief - sorry. Once again you jump to wrong conclusions. It's as simple a situation as me just not paying taxes! Dunno why you would think anything else actually! daxe wrote:

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> > "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I'm not 100% sure about this topic at the moment, but my current > > understanding is as follows. > > Im not sure either, but I do know that if SH has the where withall to get > stuff to build up his military, which I am sure is also denied him, then he > can get the meds, too. > > > An economic sanction means > > that, no matter how much money you have, you can't import this and that! > > Right? > > I think it is not a blanket sanction, but rather a prohibition of Iraq > selling its oil to get monies to buy what they want. I am further sure that > someone is buying their oil anyways. > > > A couple of questions 1/ How many people in the U.S. are currently > > being punished by having their children deprived of needed medication? > > depends on who you ask. some people think health care is a right, so they > would say there are plenty. > > > 2/ Why should these Iraqi children be punished for the gutless > > failure to kill Saddam by the U.N. forces. They were knocking on his > > door when some genius said "Nah, I've had enough. Lets go home and have > > a beer". Then the betrayal of the Curds.............. When do the right > > people get screwed here? > > Iraqi children are not being punished by anyone but the people whose > responsibility it is to care for them. > > > Personally, I cut myself away spiritually and economically from the > > anglo saxon/white english speaking world (hmmm, I'll have to revise this > > because the head of the U.N. is a black man last I looked) a couple of > > decades ago now. This type of obscenity reminds me I'm on the right > > path. > > so you steal the simulators you drive and only steal those written by your > approved minorities? > > ~daxe

On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:50:19 GMT, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> wrote: >we got involved in the Gulf War. Nobody recalls the name April >Glaspie? Saddam, who we backed & supported for many years, asked our >opinion/permission on invading what he felt were "stolen" oil fields in >Kuwait. He was told by the US we had no interest & basically gave him >the green light to proceed. Once he did just that, we go freaking >ballistic! The rest, as they say, is history... I must say I find this whole discussion very interesting, and I was kinda shocked when I read Jasons post about how the US gov knew the Japanse were going to attack Pearl Harbour a week before it happened.. Having a hard time believing that.. simply because the thought is too disgusting to be true. But without any proof, discussing this topic is rather useless right.. Anyway, what you just wrote amazes me even more Uncle F. Saddam -asked- the USA permission to invade Kuwait? Is their any kind of proof of this? Andre

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:50:19 GMT, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >we got involved in the Gulf War. Nobody recalls the name April > >Glaspie? Saddam, who we backed & supported for many years, asked our > >opinion/permission on invading what he felt were "stolen" oil fields in > >Kuwait. He was told by the US we had no interest & basically gave him > >the green light to proceed. Once he did just that, we go freaking > >ballistic! The rest, as they say, is history... > > I must say I find this whole discussion very interesting, and I was > kinda shocked when I read Jasons post about how the US gov knew the > Japanse were going to attack Pearl Harbour a week before it happened.. > Having a hard time believing that.. simply because the thought is too > disgusting to be true. But without any proof, discussing this topic is > rather useless right..

Not having a lot of time at the moment, I did a quick search on Amazon under FDR to see if anything turned up. What I got was this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743201299/qid=1013521566/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/103-0563514-6559062 And some of the quotes within fall exactly in line with what my own mother told me some 30+ years ago. Among them: "It was not long after the first Japanese bombs fell on the American naval ships at Pearl Harbor that conspiracy theories began to circulate, charging that Franklin Roosevelt and his chief military advisors knew of the impending attack well in advance. Robert Stinnett, who served in the U.S. Navy with distinction during World War II, examines recently declassified American documents and concludes that, far more than merely knowing of the Japanese plan to bomb Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt deliberately steered Japan into war with America." "Although obviously troubled by his discovery of a systematic plan of deception on the part of the American government, Stinnett does not take deep issue with its outcome. Roosevelt, he writes, faced powerful opposition from isolationist forces, and, against them, the Pearl Harbor attack was "something that had to be endured in order to stop a greater evil--the Nazi invaders in Europe who had begun the Holocaust and were poised to invade England." "What *is* new is Stinnett's discovery of a memorandum by Arthur McCollum, a Navy lieutenant commander and Japan expert, outlining an eight-point scheme to back the Japanese into a corner and provoke an attack." "Whether he needed McCollum to outline them for him or not, FDR unquestionably adopted policies, most significantly an embargo on trade with Japan, that any knowledgeable person should have seen would dramatically increase the likelihood of war." Just a quick glimpse through & a cut & paste. :-) Hmmm... at $12.80, I may have to buy this one for myself. > Anyway, what you just wrote amazes me even more Uncle F. > Saddam -asked- the USA permission to invade Kuwait? > Is their any kind of proof of this? I'm sure there has to be some out there. I distinctly remember reading about this in the days immediately after the Gulf War ended on CNN.com. Only lasted a few days, maybe a week or two tops. Then you never heard anything about it ever again. Just did a quick search on CNN.com under April Glaspie & came up empty. (No surprise there.) I'll look some later when I have more time. :-) Holy cow, hold the boat!! I did a quick search on Dogpile before I hit send. This one is fascinating. Not only does it back up my stance, but read the section on oil prices. Anyways... does this guy sound like the monster towards us that our media whipped everybody up into believing? His response later after we went off on him was anger, naturally, after such a betrayal. Here's the link, there are many more sites thru Dogpile.com searching for April Glaspie. http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html Have Fun! -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in > If you're a minority or poor-white, way too many unfortunately. Too > many believe only the better off deserve health care. All humans > deserve it. Try getting health care if you have no insurance & no job! > I was homeless at one time, about 15 years ago, so I know first hand how > we treat these people. >Surely you don't need to lie to support your position. Well I take that back, you have some very weak arguments. Helthcare is free for poor people in the USA, and indeed is the largest expense for most county hospitals, which pass the costs on to us the taxpayers.

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Dan Leach wrote: > > > > Thats quite a scary report. Ive always been suspicious of americasmassive, > > terrifying war machine. Maybe they want the whole world to live undertheir > > banner (rather like pre ww2 germany). IMO the world is about to become alot

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> > less nice place to live. > > > That's basically how I've seen them for quite a while now. Hitler with > nukes. > > --

FESTER!!- sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone think your an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Good grief.

On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:15:06 GMT, Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> wrote: > Anyways... does this guy sound like the >monster towards us that our media whipped everybody up into believing? >His response later after we went off on him was anger, naturally, after >such a betrayal. Here's the link, there are many more sites thru >Dogpile.com searching for April Glaspie. >http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html Have Fun! Holy crap.. I stayed out of this 'America' discussion because the whole situation is SO damn complicated, that I think only a few people really know the whole picture.. A depressing thought just overcomes me that maybe nobody really gets the whole picture.. Anyway, discussing with people like Captain America is totally useless, I'm affraid people like him are just as narrow-minded as the people of Iraq and Afghanistan who also only believe what they hear from their beloved leaders. I only had a couple of minutes to quickly read the links you gave me (at work), and it sure is fascinating.. still not 100% solid proof ofcourse, we will probably never know the whole truth, but if only part of this report is true.. Then just like Captain America even I have been blinded what I saw on CNN.. I think I need to drive a couple of laps on the Ring to arrange my thoughts about this stuff :-/ Andre

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Maybe they are not our responsibility. But that still does not give us > the right to forbid anyone from providing their children needed > medicines. we havent forbidden them anything except selling oil. Its an alternative to blowing them up. which do you prefer? Or do you prefer that rogue nations like Iraq be allowed to operate in any manner they choose? I personally would like them to be prevented from developing weapons of mass destruction which they can use against the US. Is it preferable to let them develop them and use them, and then respond? Only if you cant see past the end of your nose. >That country cannot meet all it's needs internally, it needs > help from the outside. They need to do what they are expected to do by the US and the majority of the rest of the world and the pressure will stop. If they choose to spend money on the military instead of their children, its not a choice we are making for them and we are not responsible for it. How much simpler can that get for you to understand it? > Just like we cannot meet all our *oil* needs. sure we can, but most of the same peaceniks who rail against US using its strength to fullfill its needs also prevent it from drilling for oil where we have it on our own soil. > Any regular citizens who at one time may have supported us privately > likely do not do so anymore because of this. The US has a bad habit of > turning it's friends into enemies. and we have a great record of destroying our enemies, so where's the problem? ~daxe

"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Try, try, try to separate yourself from the guilt. At least you're > intelligent enough to feel some. Assuming you're a citizen of a NATO > country, and a tax payer as well, THEN YOU ARE GUILTY! Im guilty, so what? I dont havbe a problem with it, you do, and you arent terribly important, so it matters not. > And I won't get > into an argument with you about degrees of guilt. Trying to stick it all > on Saddam is hopelessly crude and convenient. and accurate. > As for your assertion that I'm a thief - sorry. Once again you jump > to wrong conclusions. It's as simple a situation as me just not paying > taxes! Dunno why you would think anything else actually! BUYING things involves you economically, dimwit. ~daxe

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> daxe wrote: > > > > "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > I'm not 100% sure about this topic at the moment, but my current > > > understanding is as follows. > > > > Im not sure either, but I do know that if SH has the where withall to

get > > stuff to build up his military, which I am sure is also denied him, thenhe > > can get the meds, too. > > > > > An economic sanction means > > > that, no matter how much money you have, you can't import this andthat! > > > Right? > > > > I think it is not a blanket sanction, but rather a prohibition of Iraq > > selling its oil to get monies to buy what they want. I am further surethat > > someone is buying their oil anyways. > > > > > A couple of questions 1/ How many people in the U.S. arecurrently > > > being punished by having their children deprived of needed medication? > > > > depends on who you ask. some people think health care is a right, sothey > > would say there are plenty. > > > > > 2/ Why should these Iraqi children be punished for the gutless > > > failure to kill Saddam by the U.N. forces. They were knocking on his > > > door when some genius said "Nah, I've had enough. Lets go home andhave > > > a beer". Then the betrayal of the Curds.............. When do theright > > > people get screwed here? > > > > Iraqi children are not being punished by anyone but the people whose > > responsibility it is to care for them. > > > > > Personally, I cut myself away spiritually and economically fromthe > > > anglo saxon/white english speaking world (hmmm, I'll have to revisethis > > > because the head of the U.N. is a black man last I looked) a couple of > > > decades ago now. This type of obscenity reminds me I'm on the right > > > path. > > > > so you steal the simulators you drive and only steal those written byyour > > approved minorities? > > > > ~daxe

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > All humans > deserve it. based on what? the education necessary is not free, so dispensing the knowledge isnt free, either. When things arent free, then it requires money to get them, which is how things work in a capitalist country. The theory is that if you want something, you work for it and by doing so, you make the country stronger and more productive instead of more weak, whiny and needy. > Try getting health care if you have no insurance & no job! its easy. go sit in an emergency ward. a public hospital is required by law to provide health care for everyone, and they do. I lived just fine without health insurance for about 20 years, during which time I required quite a bit of medical care. > I was homeless at one time, about 15 years ago, so I know first hand how > we treat these people. if you were stupid and shortsighted enough to end up homeless it is not suprising to me that you couldnt find the abundant free healthcare. ~daxe

On 12 Feb 2002 00:26:47 -0800, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote:

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>Uh, rape? Oral sex between consenting adults may be illegal in 3/4th >of the United States (including DC IIRC) but it's hardly rape. Sure, >cheating on someone, especially a kickass woman like Hillary, makes >Bill a real dirtbag in my book, not to mention that he lied about it >under oath, but the real sleazebags in that situation were the people >who were asking him questions about his sex life to begin with. One >second American politicians want to rid the earth of pornography, the >next they waste my taxable income to investigate someone's private sex >life. It's sort of like funding terrorism while...er, n/m I won't go >there.

He's talking about Jennifer Flowers. You're as forgetful as Slick Willie himself. As far as consenting adults... If Clinton had the character to admit he had an affair, he would have escalated the whole mess to the point he did. This nincompoop ended up commiting perjury over a blow job. He wanted to cement his legacy in history, and he sure as hell did.

"daxe" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:%2ba8.3669$[email hidden]...

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> > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > All humans > > deserve it. > > based on what? >

Common decency? Helping those less fortunate? > the education necessary is not free, so dispensing the knowledge isnt free, > either. When things arent free, then it requires money to get them, which > is how things work in a capitalist country. The theory is that if you want > something, you work for it and by doing so, you make the country stronger > and more productive instead of more weak, whiny and needy. >Wow! There is no such thing as bad luck in the USA! Nobody ever loses their job due to a recession, changing markets, or other events beyond their control. Amazing. And no startup dot-com went out of business. And Enron is doing fine and keeping all of the employees busy.

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> > Try getting health care if you have no insurance & no job! > > its easy. go sit in an emergency ward. a public hospital is required by > law to provide health care for everyone, and they do. I lived just fine > without health insurance for about 20 years, during which time I required > quite a bit of medical care. >

Lobotomy? > > I was homeless at one time, about 15 years ago, so I know first hand how > > we treat these people. > > if you were stupid and shortsighted enough to end up homeless it is not > suprising to me that you couldnt find the abundant free healthcare. >Right Fester, only dumb people lose their jobs in daxe's America. Or get evicted. Or are in an accident which eats up their life savings. Or ... /Jens, astounded

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... >I must say I find this whole discussion very interesting, and I was >kinda shocked when I read Jasons post about how the US gov knew the >Japanse were going to attack Pearl Harbour a week before it happened.. >Having a hard time believing that.. simply because the thought is too >disgusting to be true. But without any proof, discussing this topic is >rather useless right.. Why disgusting? As for strategic value, we lost battleships and support ships. Battleships, as important naval strategists had already realized, had become obsolete. Their era was passed. The king of the seas was the carriers. And note that none of our carriers were at Pearl Harbor, at least one (IIRC) had left very shortly before the attack. -Tim

"The Enigmatic One" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:yqea8.2300$[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > >I must say I find this whole discussion very interesting, and I was > >kinda shocked when I read Jasons post about how the US gov knew the > >Japanse were going to attack Pearl Harbour a week before it happened.. > >Having a hard time believing that.. simply because the thought is too > >disgusting to be true. But without any proof, discussing this topic is > >rather useless right.. > > Why disgusting? >

Because it implies that FDR willingly sacrificed his own troops. Never mind about the ships but setting up your own armed forces for slaughter seems cynical and ruthless to some. I am personally an admirer of W.T.Sherman, so the thought is not nearly as abhorrent to me. /Jens

Re: Pearl Harbor -- Please read Gordon Prange's "Pearl Harbor: The Verdict of History" for an extremely well researched and documented investigation of how the forces stationed at Pearl Harbor were caught with their pants down. It wasn't a Roosevelt led conspiracy to get the U.S. into the war. It was basically an incredible series of incompetent decisions by the military - primarily those in charge of the naval and army troops on Pearl Harbor (Adm. Kimmell and Gen. Short). Nothing was kept from them - they were warned that war was imminent several days before the attacks (based on intercepted Japanese transmissions and other factors), but the commanders on Pearl Harbor made some extremely poor decisions after getting that information. They felt that the Japanese military were not going to hit Pearl Harbor, but would concentrate on the Phillipines. They were more concerned with saboteurs - so they kept the planes unarmed on the ground. The list goes on. That god-awful movie "Pearl Harbor" that came out last year, which showed Admiral Kimmell receiving the warning after the attack, is further perpetuating this silly myth. And the U.S. didn't impose the oil embargo on the Japanese because we disagreed with their form of government, as Uncle Fester explained it. The Japanese were well into the process of brutally taking over all of southeast Asia. The Japanese army were committing despicable atrocities on their Chinese victims (e.g., live bayonet practice). The U.S. wisely thought it might be a good idea to stop providing their armies with their much needed oil. I'm as embarassed by the U.S.'s shady dealings and their role in human rights abuses around the world (particularly in Central America) as anyone, but let's at least be historically correct. Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

"daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FVaa8.3656$[email hidden]...

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> > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > Maybe they are not our responsibility. But that still does not give us > > the right to forbid anyone from providing their children needed > > medicines. > > we havent forbidden them anything except selling oil. Its an alternative

to > blowing them up. which do you prefer? I'd rather we blow up a child than make it die a slow, painful death. > Or do you prefer that rogue nations > like Iraq Iraq is where civilization began 5,000 years ago. Call them what you want. >be allowed to operate in any manner they choose? Like us? >I personally > would like them to be prevented from developing weapons of massdestruction > which they can use against the US. We have nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. Why can't other countries do the same?

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>Is it preferable to let them develop > them and use them, and then respond? Only if you cant see past the end of > your nose. > > >That country cannot meet all it's needs internally, it needs > > help from the outside. > > They need to do what they are expected to do by the US and the majority of > the rest of the world and the pressure will stop. If they choose to spend > money on the military instead of their children, its not a choice we are > making for them and we are not responsible for it. How much simpler can > that get for you to understand it?

That's not how it works. > > Just like we cannot meet all our *oil* needs. > > sure we can, but most of the same peaceniks who rail against US using its > strength to fullfill its needs Peaceniks? You must be an old man to keep using that silly term. >also prevent it from drilling for oil where > we have it on our own soil. Not enough oil to make even the slightest bit of difference to our supply. Any half wit knows that we need to develop alternative, clean energy sources. We don't and won't do that as long as the oil companies elect our presidents. > > Any regular citizens who at one time may have supported us privately > > likely do not do so anymore because of this. The US has a bad habit of > > turning it's friends into enemies. > > and we have a great record of destroying our enemies, so where's the > problem? The problem is that we don't have that record. WE didn't win WW2. Millions of others did quite a bit of work in WW1 and 2. Also, times have changed quite a bit since then. Wars are no longer fought the same old way. Our ENEMIES (people who are sick of having us bombing their people and dictating how they should)live may end up blowing up oneof our nuclear power plants soon. Imaginehow many people will die. Will you be able to claim victory against anyone if they are capable of something like that? David G Fisher

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> What really floors me is that not a single person here has mentioned how > we got involved in the Gulf War. Nobody recalls the name April > Glaspie? Saddam, who we backed & supported for many years, asked our > opinion/permission on invading what he felt were "stolen" oil fields in > Kuwait. He was told by the US we had no interest & basically gave him > the green light to proceed. Once he did just that, we go freaking > ballistic! The rest, as they say, is history...

I read this http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html and it certainly backs up what you say. Sensible people knew we went to war with Iraq only because we want our supply of oil to keep flowing. Nothing else. David G Fisher

Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Robert Stinnett, who served in the U.S. Navy with distinction during World > War II, examines recently declassified American documents and concludes > that, far more than merely knowing of the Japanese plan to bomb > Pearl Harbor, Roosevelt deliberately steered Japan into war with > America." Stinnett makes a lot of stupid claims, but the stupidest is that the Japanese could be tracked across the Pacific by radio intercept. He would have you believe that the Japanese not only defied orders to maintain radio silence, but that they also ignored radio broadcasts from their ships, that they ran into a situation that called for radio silence to be broken on a daily basis, and that these daily "emergenicies" didn't provide the reason to call off the attack. Does a burglar arrive at your house with a siren blasting? Just how gullible does Stinnett think we are? If you're going to be cheated out of your money it should at least be by a plausible lie. The "McCullum" memorandum he spouts off so much about is only as inflamatory as he can make it to sell his book. Otherwise it's a rather pragmatic view of the situation in the Pacific at the time. Running around yelling, "the sky is falling" does not provide a smoking gun. Nobody's found such a smoking gun, and that's because none exists. Larry J

[email hidden] (The Enigmatic One) wrote in message news:<yqea8.2300$[email hidden]>... > As for strategic value, we lost battleships and support ships. > Battleships, as important naval strategists had already realized, had > become obsolete. Their era was passed. The king of the seas was the > carriers. We raised all but one of the battleships sunk at Pearl Harbor, at the expense of millions of dollars. We built eleven more. We had four more beyond that ordered. The battleships we had all saw active service during the war. None were retired until after the end of the war. Obsolete? > And note that none of our carriers were at Pearl Harbor, at least > one (IIRC) had left very shortly before the attack. And one, USS Enterprise, was trying to get back into the harbor before the attack. She was so close she sent her planes ahead to Ford Island, to arrive _during_ the attack. The carriers sailed on the orders of Adm. Kimmel in Hawaii, not Washington, and as far as DC knew Enterprise would be in the harbor when the attack happened (if you accept the stupid premise that they knew and did nothing, a truly moronic concept) and Lexington would be a lone carrier, 400 miles from Hawaii, and facing SIX Japanese carriers. What the heck kind of plot would allow this? Folks, the Just Let It Happen (tm) BS is for looneys and loosers. Choose which list you with to have your name placed in. Larry J PS, William Halsey commanded Enterprise's group. Think "Bull" Halsey would allow them to Just Let It Happen (tm)? You probably wouldn't want to suggest that in person. > > > -Tim

David Ewing <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Re: Pearl Harbor --[Huge SNIP] This is actually quite an interesting and discussion IMHO. I tend to think you are closest to the actual facts David... but I'm still a sucker for conspiracy theories so I'd like to keep that door open for further mind games anyway ;) Mikkel

[email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> [email hidden] (Brian McLeaney) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > > I seem to > > recall a number of similar incidents between anti-Clinton protesters > > and security when Clinton was being impeached and accused of rape. > > Uh, rape? Oral sex between consenting adults may be illegal in 3/4th > of the United States (including DC IIRC) but it's hardly rape.

I'm referring to Juanita Broderick. The rape accusation was made by Broderick when Clinton was Ark. Attorney General. The mainstream liberal media refused to cover it although Fox News kept it alive and finally NBC aired the interview. This is the one where Clinton gave us a classic quote in reference to Broderick's bloody lip: "You better put some ice on that". Priceless. > Sure,cheating on someone, especially a kickass woman like Hillary, makes You have to be joking here, right?

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> Bill a real dirtbag in my book, not to mention that he lied about it > under oath, but the real sleazebags in that situation were the people > who were asking him questions about his sex life to begin with. One > second American politicians want to rid the earth of pornography, the > next they waste my taxable income to investigate someone's private sex > life. It's sort of like funding terrorism while...er, n/m I won't go > there. > > Jason

Actually no politicians were asking questions about his sex life to begin with, that information came out during his sexual harrassment trial with Paula Jones. If not for the Jones trial, those stories (Lewinsky, Willey) would never have surfaced. Here's a thought: If you're a public official and you don't want your sex life to become public, then it's probably not a good idea to have Arkansas State Troopers bring a nitwit receptionist to your hotel room and then proceed to drop your pants in front of her. And to think the media made Clinton into some sort of genius. Scary. BTM

[email hidden] (Brian McLeaney) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > I'm referring to Juanita Broderick. > The rape accusation was made by Broderick when Clinton was Ark. > Attorney General. The mainstream liberal media refused to cover it > although Fox News kept it alive and finally NBC aired the interview. > This is the one where Clinton gave us a classic quote in reference to > Broderick's bloody lip: "You better put some ice on that". Priceless. Wow, I wasn't aware of that (probably due to the media not covering it). I'll have to poke around for some info, thanks for pointing that out. > > Sure,cheating on someone, especially a kickass woman like Hillary, makes > > You have to be joking here, right? Nah. While I don't find her attractive or anything like that, or even particularly charismatic, her ideals are pretty much the opposite of everything her husband did as president. She was even nominated by a second party when she ran for Senator (the Working Party IIRC) because of her vocal support of the middle class (whereas more working class jobs were lost during her husband's presidency than any other). I'm not going to say I totally agree with her on everything (her health care reform plan was way too liberal for my taste) I can't really think of any politician who is closer to my own views. > Actually no politicians were asking questions about his sex life to > begin with, that information came out during his sexual harrassment > trial with Paula Jones. If not for the Jones trial, those stories > (Lewinsky, Willey) would never have surfaced. Good point. > Here's a thought: If > you're a public official and you don't want your sex life to become > public, then it's probably not a good idea to have Arkansas State > Troopers bring a nitwit receptionist to your hotel room and then > proceed to drop your pants in front of her. And to think the media > made Clinton into some sort of genius. Scary. Clinton was awful. I do think he's a very intelligent man, and that he did some good things in office, but for the most part he's probably the least effective Democrat we've had as President. He was too wishy washy, to unwilling to actually commit to anything. I always felt like he just sort of coasted through his presidency instead of taking real action. Jason

daxe wrote:

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> > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > Maybe they are not our responsibility. But that still does not give us > > the right to forbid anyone from providing their children needed > > medicines. > > we havent forbidden them anything except selling oil. Its an alternative to > blowing them up. which do you prefer?

If we have a problem with their nation's leadership, that's one thing. But WTF did these women & children do to us that we should treat them in such a inhumane way? > Or do you prefer that rogue nations > like Iraq be allowed to operate in any manner they choose? Umm... it's called sovereignty. Why does the US try to play World Dictator? > I personally > would like them to be prevented from developing weapons of mass destruction > which they can use against the US. Is it preferable to let them develop > them and use them, and then respond? Only if you cant see past the end of > your nose. We'd have nothing to fear if we didn't have the nasty habit of poking our noses in others' business & making enemies aplenty because of it. You keep forgetting... we are the only nation to have used these things against others. We may have a case of national guilty conscience to think others are looking to do to us what we've done before. > >That country cannot meet all it's needs internally, it needs > > help from the outside. > > They need to do what they are expected to do by the US and the majority of > the rest of the world and the pressure will stop. Who the hell are we to tell others how to run their lives?

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>If they choose to spend > money on the military instead of their children, its not a choice we are > making for them and we are not responsible for it. How much simpler can > that get for you to understand it? > > > Just like we cannot meet all our *oil* needs. > > sure we can, but most of the same peaceniks who rail against US using its > strength to fullfill its needs also prevent it from drilling for oil where > we have it on our own soil.

DGF did a fine job answering this. I'll bow to his summation. :-) > > Any regular citizens who at one time may have supported us privately > > likely do not do so anymore because of this. The US has a bad habit of > > turning it's friends into enemies. > > and we have a great record of destroying our enemies, so where's the > problem? You've been listening to too much propaganda. The only enemies we've destroyed are countries that are so much smaller & weaker than ourselves (Panama anybody?)that we ought to feel ashamed. The high school senior who can beat the stuffing out of a second grader has nothing to brag about. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

rik zeppelin wrote:

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> > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in > > > If you're a minority or poor-white, way too many unfortunately. Too > > many believe only the better off deserve health care. All humans > > deserve it. Try getting health care if you have no insurance & no job! > > I was homeless at one time, about 15 years ago, so I know first hand how > > we treat these people. > > > Surely you don't need to lie to support your position.

<shrug> Whatever. It's ok if you don't believe me. Really. :-) > Well I take that back, you have some very weak arguments. Helthcare is free > for poor people in the USA, Indeed. It's called Medicaid, & it is *insurance*. I don't know if things have changed since then or not, but in the late '80's in Michigan in order to get Medicaid or any other form of public assistance, you had to have a permanent mailing address. The homeless do not have this. Most of our shelters at the time had a 2 week limit & then you couldn't come back for another 30 days. Post office boxes were not allowed either, not that we had THAT kind of spare money in the first place. Now as I was saying. Go & try to get medical care with no insurance *including Medicaid*. See how they treat you when they learn you have no insurance & no money. Then come back & tell me the results. :-) -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

daxe wrote: My friend, with such a nasty, mean-spirited outlook to those less fortunate than yourself, I really hope you never end up on that end of the stick. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

"Jens H. Kruuse" wrote:

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> > "daxe" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse > news:%2ba8.3669$[email hidden]... > > > > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > All humans > > > deserve it. > > > > based on what? > > > Common decency? Helping those less fortunate?

Thank you. Somebody gets it.

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> > the education necessary is not free, so dispensing the knowledge isnt free, > > either. When things arent free, then it requires money to get them, which > > is how things work in a capitalist country. The theory is that if you want > > something, you work for it and by doing so, you make the country stronger > > and more productive instead of more weak, whiny and needy. > > > Wow! There is no such thing as bad luck in the USA! Nobody ever loses their job > due to a recession, changing markets, or other events beyond their control. > Amazing. And no startup dot-com went out of business. And Enron is doing fine > and keeping all of the employees busy. > > > > Try getting health care if you have no insurance & no job! > > > > its easy. go sit in an emergency ward. a public hospital is required by > > law to provide health care for everyone, and they do. I lived just fine > > without health insurance for about 20 years, during which time I required > > quite a bit of medical care. > > > Lobotomy?

ROTFLMAO!!!

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> > > I was homeless at one time, about 15 years ago, so I know first hand how > > > we treat these people. > > > > if you were stupid and shortsighted enough to end up homeless it is not > > suprising to me that you couldnt find the abundant free healthcare. > > > Right Fester, only dumb people lose their jobs in daxe's America. Or get > evicted. Or are in an accident which eats up their life savings. Or ... > > /Jens, astounded

Not only that but he doesn't realize that approximately 20% of our nation's homeless population *work*! Cost of living is just so much higher than what they make. Those who share Daxe's outlook though would say that those people didn't do enough with their life, etc. etc. & therefore don't deserve a livable wage. What really usually undermines such an attitude many times though is a belief that most of these people are minorities (mistaken belief!) and therefore unimportant in such a person's world view. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

rik zeppelin wrote:

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> > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Dan Leach wrote: > > > > > > Thats quite a scary report. Ive always been suspicious of americas > massive, > > > terrifying war machine. Maybe they want the whole world to live under > their > > > banner (rather like pre ww2 germany). IMO the world is about to become a > lot > > > less nice place to live. > > > > > > That's basically how I've seen them for quite a while now. Hitler with > > nukes. > > > > -- > FESTER!!- sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and let everyone > think your an idiot, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. > Good grief.

Hehehe. What can I say? Seriously though, examine the basic German beliefs at the time & contrast them with the thinking in modern day America. Not an exact fit-hell no. But a little to close for my liking. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:55:10 GMT, [email hidden] (The Enigmatic One) wrote: > Why disgusting? > > As for strategic value, we lost battleships and support ships. >Battleships, as important naval strategists had already realized, had >become obsolete. Their era was passed. The king of the seas was the >carriers. Strategic value is not the point here.. if Roosevelt willingly let the Japanese bomb Pearl, he willingly sacrificed a lot of American soldiers just to get involved in the war. I don't know if you think that was a strategic good decision, but I find it rather disgusting. Andre

daxe wrote:

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> > "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Try, try, try to separate yourself from the guilt. At least you're > > intelligent enough to feel some. Assuming you're a citizen of a NATO > > country, and a tax payer as well, THEN YOU ARE GUILTY! > > Im guilty, so what? I dont havbe a problem with it, you do, and you arent > terribly important, so it matters not.

I am important to me and I do care what I think of myself. My opinion is one of the few I treasure! :) I would hate to know that I was the killer of children - a more pathetic thing to have in one's memory I cannot imagine! BTW, if you don't have a problem with it then why the use of the word "guilty"? And exactly what is important to you? Are you important to you even? And if I'm not important to you then why respond to my completely unimportant posts? > > > And I won't get > > into an argument with you about degrees of guilt. Trying to stick it all > > on Saddam is hopelessly crude and convenient. > > and accurate. Yes. Saddam does control the U.N. I suppose! He rang them and told them to put economic sanctions on Iraq. Yes, of course! So long a they don't effect him or his goons? > > > As for your assertion that I'm a thief - sorry. Once again you jump > > to wrong conclusions. It's as simple a situation as me just not paying > > taxes! Dunno why you would think anything else actually! > > BUYING things involves you economically, dimwit. The most important thing about this comment is the insult on the end. So I'm cutting in a little am I? :) Your at an important crossroads here pal - you can continue in denial and rebellion against what I say and decay into nothing, or admit that your COMPLETELY WRONG, learn and grow.

daxe wrote:

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> > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > All humans > > deserve it. > > based on what? >

puddles of dribble mopped up (snipped) Do you at least have a plan to scoop the dead up off the street? Or just let the vultures handle that? Quite an eco system! If you suffer from short sightedness, it's not your eyes - it's the brain they're hooked up to!

daxe wrote: > and we have a great record of destroying our enemies, so where's the > problem? > > ~daxe Hmmmmmmmm....... Ok pups. Welcome to the nuclear age! :) One loss at this level and that's the last war you get to fight idiot! Do you have any idea how easily those 4 aircraft could have been loaded with chemicals, bombs, etc? I'm starting to think that if someone pointed a gun at you that the danger wouldn't register - much like a dog! You'd no doubt start growling and then attack, aye?

Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> > What really floors me is that not a single person here has mentioned how > we got involved in the Gulf War. Nobody recalls the name April > Glaspie? Saddam, who we backed & supported for many years, asked our > opinion/permission on invading what he felt were "stolen" oil fields in > Kuwait. He was told by the US we had no interest & basically gave him > the green light to proceed. Once he did just that, we go freaking > ballistic! The rest, as they say, is history...

Yep. Some people have twisted the story and said that we encouraged him, which isn't true, but we did say 'if you want to take part of Kuwait, we'll go away'. Saddam wanted to do this because having Kuwait would reduce the need for continuing to fight Iran for the water-bound land between them that in dispute (I forget wthe name of the region or the sea it borders on and I'm too lazy to check a map at the moment). His thinking was "we'll take kuwait, which historically is part of Iraq (note the similarities to Israel's claims on Jerusalem and Gaza) in order to end this pointless war with Iran." Having been given word from the US that we would not get involved, he went ahead and annexed Kuwait. Immediately, Israel/Saudi Arabia shit their pants and begged and pleaded for us (and in the case of Israel, probably blackmailed us) to come help them and the rest is history. Jason

Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> The US are hardly strangers in provoking others to attack us. We employ > these measures in order to help stir our half-illiterate populace into a > war-frenzy so our Govt can pursue those they wish to in an almost > unlimited manner. We knew these attacks were coming. Long before the > internet, back in the 1960's, my mother had told me about it. How we > had imposed economic sanctions on Japan (apparently we didn't agree with > their form of govt. Who the hell are WE to dictate to them how they > govern themselves??) , how the Japanese leaders had come here trying to > find a way out & then leaving in disgust when we refused. What do you > think will happen when one country tries to starve another out & that > country has enough resources to mount an attack? This isn't Rocket > Science here folks. It was a deliberate provocation by the US.

Oops, forgot to quote this part. Interesting story about World War II. In order to have an ally in the far east against Japan, we allied with a young charismatic Vietnamese leader named Ho Chi Minh. Immediately after the war, we forgot about him and our promises to aid in Vietnamese independence and immediately the French took over Vietnam again. Seeing that we abandoned him, the Soviet Union offered their help. The rest is history. I love American foreign policy. Jason

[email hidden] (The Enigmatic One) wrote in message news:<yqea8.2300$[email hidden]>... > As for strategic value, we lost battleships and support ships. > Battleships, as important naval strategists had already realized, had > become obsolete. Their era was passed. The king of the seas was the > carriers. I don't fully agree with that. Even in modern times, a carrier by itself is extremely vulnerable. This is why there are fleets which consist of one carrier surrounded by multiple support ships (battleships, Aegis, etc). Aircraft carriers are effective as offensive weapons, moreso than defensive. Jason

jason moyer wrote:

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> > [email hidden] (The Enigmatic One) wrote in message news:<yqea8.2300$[email hidden]>... > > > As for strategic value, we lost battleships and support ships. > > Battleships, as important naval strategists had already realized, had > > become obsolete. Their era was passed. The king of the seas was the > > carriers. > > I don't fully agree with that. Even in modern times, a carrier by > itself is extremely vulnerable. This is why there are fleets which > consist of one carrier surrounded by multiple support ships > (battleships, Aegis, etc). Aircraft carriers are effective as > offensive weapons, moreso than defensive.

Getting flashbacks from playing "Carrier Command II" here....:-), I have it on floppy disks here somewhere....... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

[email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Strategic value is not the point here.. if Roosevelt willingly let the > Japanese bomb Pearl, he willingly sacrificed a lot of American > soldiers just to get involved in the war. > I don't know if you think that was a strategic good decision, but I > find it rather disgusting. Andre, do some research on Operation Northwoods. I would some info but I'm at work right now and don't have time to dig up URL's. Their are unclassified documents detailing plans conceived by the CIA and our Joint Chiefs of Staff to sacrifice our own resources/civilians/troops in order to provoke a war. Operation Northwoods was an attempt to make it look like Cuba had attacked us. Some of the ideas including using a drone painted like a MiG to shoot down an American plane, bombing a cruise liner off the coast of florida, etc. This is the shit that scares me about our government. For every potentially hokey conspiracy theory (like the FDR/Johnson info I posted above) there are a dozen unclassified documents showing things that are more ridiculous (or things that aren't unclassified yet but are common knowledge, like our funding of the Muhajadeen and the resurrection of the term "Jyhad" which hadn't been used for hundreds of years before we resurrected it in order to motivate Osama Bin Laden and his band of Freedom Fighters). Actually, one place to read some fun info is www.thesmokinggun.com. I can't remember everything they have there, but there is a nice section of unclassified CIA documents with details on our ridiculous plans (using tax money of course) to get Castro out of power. www.cia.gov and www.nsa.gov also have exhaustive archives of documents if you're willing to do some searching. Jason

On 13 Feb 2002 07:19:55 -0800, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote: <snip> >get Castro out of power. www.cia.gov and www.nsa.gov also have >exhaustive archives of documents if you're willing to do some >searching. > >Jason Thanks for the info and urls Jason.. I don't think reading all about it will make me happy, but now I'm too curious to not dig up all the info.. it's gonna be a long night.. Andre (PS I'll let you know if I find out who killed Kennedy)

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:JBfa8.39868$[email hidden]... > Iraq is where civilization began 5,000 years ago. Call them what you want. too bad it didnt continue > Like us? we're a superpower. There are some things that are incumbent upon a superpower, Im sure our opinions on whatr those things are, differ. > We have nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. Why can't othercountries > do the same? they can, unless we stop them. Im glad they isnt someone like you in charge..so we can pretend to feel safe being a sitting duck. > That's not how it works. it is, you're wrong. > Peaceniks? You must be an old man to keep using that silly term. its the first time I used it. I think you need to get less confused. > Not enough oil to make even the slightest bit of difference to our supply. > Any half wit knows that we need to develop alternative, clean energy > sources. We don't and won't do that as long as the oil companies elect our > presidents. I guesss all the $ GWB is putting into developing hydrogfen as a fuel is just propaganda, eh? > The problem is that we don't have that record. when is the last time the USA was conquered, DGF? > WE didn't win WW2. no, we ended it. > . Wars are no longer fought the same old way. Our > ENEMIES (people who are sick of having us bombing their people anddictating > how they should)live may end up blowing up oneof our nuclear power plants > soon. Imaginehow many people will die. Will you be able to claim victory > against anyone if they are capable of something like that? youre making my point for me. You go around the world incapacitating them before they do. ~daxe

too bad it didnt continue we're a superpower. There are some things that are incumbent upon a superpower, Im sure our opinions on whatr those things are, differ. they can, unless we stop them. Im glad they isnt someone like you in charge..so we can pretend to feel safe being a sitting duck. it is, you're wrong. its the first time I used it. I think you need to get less confused. I guesss all the $ GWB is putting into developing hydrogfen as a fuel is just propaganda, eh? when is the last time the USA was conquered, DGF? no, we ended it. youre making my point for me. You go around the world incapacitating them before they do. ~daxe

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > If we have a problem with their nation's leadership, that's one thing. > But WTF did these women & children do to us that we should treat them in > such a inhumane way? WE arent treating them any way. WE are tretaing their nation, whose responsibility it is to care for their own children. You see a direct cause and effect with no middleman, I don't. > Umm... it's called sovereignty. Why does the US try to play World > Dictator? because we are the most powerful nation on earth and we wont stay that way without defeating challenges, hopefully before they increase in dangerousness > We'd have nothing to fear if we didn't have the nasty habit of poking > our noses in others' business & making enemies aplenty because of it. That is a horribly naive thing to say. Did Kuwait stick its nose into Iraqs business? > You keep forgetting... we are the only nation to have used these things > against others. We may have a case of national guilty conscience to > think others are looking to do to us what we've done before. or maybe we have brains and foresight enough to head things like that off at the pass instaed of sitting around like ninnies waiting for them to happen. > Who the hell are we to tell others how to run their lives? if others run their lives in a way that does not threaten us or some little defenseless country, then we pretty much leave them alone. > DGF did a fine job answering this. I'll bow to his summation. :-) he didnt say much. ergo, neither have you. > You've been listening to too much propaganda. The only enemies we've > destroyed are countries that are so much smaller & weaker than ourselves > (Panama anybody?)that we ought to feel ashamed. The high school senior > who can beat the stuffing out of a second grader has nothing to brag > about. ashamed and bragging are little, human emotions. giant countries dont function on little human emotions, maybe thats why you cant understand how this whole process functions. ~daxe

"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Hmmmmmmmm....... Ok pups. Welcome to the nuclear age! :) One loss at > this level and that's the last war you get to fight idiot! and so explain to me why preventing other countries from having nuclear weapons, especially ones prone to doing things like flying planes into buildings, is not a good idea? > Do you have > any idea how easily those 4 aircraft could have been loaded with > chemicals, bombs, etc? less easily now than before, which ought to be enough to shut up people whining about liberties being taken away. > I'm starting to think that if someone pointed a > gun at you that the danger wouldn't register - much like a dog! You'd no > doubt start growling and then attack, aye? what the hell are you talking about? we are reposinding to danger and you pinheads are trying to characterize it as some kind of selfish bullying. sheesh ~daxe

"Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I am important to me and I do care what I think of myself. My opinion > is one of the few I treasure! :) I would hate to know that I was the > killer of children - a more pathetic thing to have in one's memory I > cannot imagine! you guys have trouble with the concept of direct cause and effect, dont you? >BTW, if you don't have a problem with it then why the > use of the word "guilty"? You introduced that word, Byron, not me. > And exactly what is important to you? Are you > important to you even? lots of things, all of them renedered more SAFE by the USAs agressive policy of defense. >And if I'm not important to you then why respond > to my completely unimportant posts? for the sake of argument. > Yes. Saddam does control the U.N. I suppose! He rang them and told > them to put economic sanctions on Iraq. Yes, of course! So long a they > don't effect him or his goons? that affect, not effect. You argument is such nonsense that it isnt worth battling. IF you cant understand what I said plainly, then you arent very bright. > The most important thing about this comment is the insult on the end. no, but its hard not to call someone who missed such an obvious point, something. > So I'm cutting in a little am I? :) not really. actually you are trying too hard to be cutting and are coming across like a smartass kid. >Your at an important crossroads here > pal - you can continue in denial and rebellion against what I say and > decay into nothing, or admit that your COMPLETELY WRONG, learn and grow. geez. im sorry I didnt realize that you control my destiny. please accept my apology. ~daxe

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > daxe wrote: > > > My friend, with such a nasty, mean-spirited outlook to those less > fortunate than yourself, I really hope you never end up on that end of > the stick. Ive been there, pal. EMotionally, financially and physically, and I got out. ~daxe

On 13 Feb 2002 07:19:55 -0800, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote: > Actually, one place to read some >fun info is www.thesmokinggun.com. ^^^ CLASSIC :))) Andre

Andre Warringa wrote: > > Strategic value is not the point here.. if Roosevelt willingly let the > Japanese bomb Pearl, he willingly sacrificed a lot of American > soldiers just to get involved in the war. He didn't, Andre - see my post above. Dave > -- > ***************************************************** > David A. Ewing > Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] > *****************************************************

"daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VUva8.780$[email hidden]...

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> > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:JBfa8.39868$[email hidden]... > > Peaceniks? You must be an old man to keep using that silly term. > > its the first time I used it. I think you need to get less confused. > > > Not enough oil to make even the slightest bit of difference to our

supply. > > Any half wit knows that we need to develop alternative, clean energy > > sources. We don't and won't do that as long as the oil companies electour > > presidents. > > I guesss all the $ GWB is putting into developing hydrogfen as a fuel is > just propaganda, eh? I can see from your posts that your obviously a fan of GB. He's as oily as they come, and everyone knows it. > > The problem is that we don't have that record. > > when is the last time the USA was conquered, DGF? A lot of countries that have been existence far longer than the U.S. haven't been conquered in a long time. So what?

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> > WE didn't win WW2. > > no, we ended it. > > > . Wars are no longer fought the same old way. Our > > ENEMIES (people who are sick of having us bombing their people and > dictating > > how they should)live may end up blowing up oneof our nuclear power

plants > > soon. Imaginehow many people will die. Will you be able to claim victory > > against anyone if they are capable of something like that? > > youre making my point for me. You go around the world incapacitating them > before they do. There's 6 billion people on this planet and due to technology, it only takes a handful to inflict a ton of damage. It's bizarre to think you can "incapacitate" everyone who wants to attack us. You think we've been successful with this war against Afghanistan? As far as I'm concerned, it's been a failure. We negotiated for weeks with the Taliban saying that unless Bin Laden was turned over, we would invade. The whole decision to invade was based on him been given to the U.S. Now, after bombing the shit out of that country and killing civilians, all of a sudden Bush says getting Bin Laden isn't necessary. WTF? Bin Laden was why we invaded. I thought we were going to do EVERYTHING possible to find him. We've had three casualties (that's obviously a good thing) because the American troops haven't been put in any danger in the U.S.'s weak search. When you have three casualties in a war, then they absolutely are not being put in any danger. The Northern Alliance did all the dirty work and suffered all the casualties. Maybe that's why Bin Laden and most of his lieutenants are still on the run? Where are all the terrorists that have been captured? They've got a few hundred Taliban soldiers locked up so far. Big deal. You think we're any safer now? You think we've "incapacitated" the terrorists? LOL. They're just more determined than ever now. Bush can repeat this same routine on another five countries and nothing will have changed except the terrorists will be even more determined. Yea, we've knocked down some training sites in Afghanistan. Big deal. It's probably only going to take a few more terrorists attacks here in the U.S.or Europe before this stupid flag waving stops and people stop blindly believing the crap coming from the White House. David G Fisher

On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:18:17 -0700, David Ewing <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Andre Warringa wrote: > >> >> Strategic value is not the point here.. if Roosevelt willingly let the >> Japanese bomb Pearl, he willingly sacrificed a lot of American >> soldiers just to get involved in the war. > >He didn't, Andre - see my post above. > >Dave

Notice the 'if' in my sentence Dave. It's not much use taking sides since there is no proof to backup either side. But just imagine he did.. when you look at it extremely objective, it did avoid a much worse fate then.. still a disgusting thought though. This evening I spend searching the Net with the url's Jason mentioned in the post above, and it's making me a bit paranoia actually.. I don't know what to believe, but it's facinating to read all these theories.. Andre

On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:02:26 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: <snip> >terrorists attacks here in the U.S.or Europe before this stupid flag waving >stops and people stop blindly believing the crap coming from the White >House. > >David G Fisher What a great post.. I mean that.. what is happening to me?? Andre

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]... > > This evening I spend searching the Net with the url's Jason mentioned > in the post above, and it's making me a bit paranoia actually.. I > don't know what to believe, but it's facinating to read all these > theories.. > Andr� (see, I remembered the �) One of my loathsome secrets is an unseemly urge to peruse conspiratorial sites on the web. ;) Occasionally I come across a silly or controversial theory and fire up the good old Google search engine and feast my blurry eyes upon pages and pages of whacko theories and serious debunkeries (debunks? debunkments? whatever). I usually spend a day or two on each theory before moving on to more wholesome pursuits such as posting at the www.racesimcentral.com forums or reading the good bits at www.simbin.com . Anyway, it's good, clean fun to see how people want to delude themsleves into believing eg. that man never set foot on the Moon, that there is a face on Mars, that aliens made the crop circles, that the Holocaust did not take place, that A.Warringa crashed at Monza, or that the famous Alien Autopsy movie is genuine. (And there are many more - www.artbell.com is a good place to start - or bad). Cheers, Kruuse, slightly silly candidate

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:02:26 GMT, "David G Fisher" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > <snip> > >terrorists attacks here in the U.S.or Europe before this stupid flagwaving

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> >stops and people stop blindly believing the crap coming from the White > >House. > > > >David G Fisher > > What a great post.. I mean that.. what is happening to me?? > > Andre >

I know what you mean, I feel the same way. (Must...continue....to...reflexively...disagree....with....DGF)

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:02:26 GMT, "David G Fisher" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > <snip> > >terrorists attacks here in the U.S.or Europe before this stupid flag waving > >stops and people stop blindly believing the crap coming from the White > >House. > > > >David G Fisher > > What a great post.. I mean that.. what is happening to me??

Scary eh ? I've agreed with DGF on several things he has said lately and it's scaring the crap out of me :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A woman is an occasional pleasure but a cigar is always a smoke" --Groucho Marx--

"Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:giBa8.3881$7n.10275@shaw-ty1...

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> > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:02:26 GMT, "David G Fisher" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > <snip> > > >terrorists attacks here in the U.S.or Europe before this stupid flag > waving > > >stops and people stop blindly believing the crap coming from the White > > >House. > > > > > >David G Fisher > > > > What a great post.. I mean that.. what is happening to me?? > > > > Andre > > > > I know what you mean, I feel the same way. > (Must...continue....to...reflexively...disagree....with....DGF) >

One thing to keep in mind right now: THIS is the important stuff! Think about that next time you argue with DGF. /Jens

On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:52:45 +0100, "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Andr� (see, I remembered the �) Cool :) <snip> > that there is a face on Mars All the other theories are ofcourse nonsense, including that crash at Monza theory, but you obviously never played Zack McKracken and the Alien Mindbenders, the classic Lucasarts adventure.. Thanks for the link :) Andre PS Guess what, I just read proof that the Earth -is- flat!

[email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Strategic value is not the point here.. if Roosevelt willingly let the > Japanese bomb Pearl, he willingly sacrificed a lot of American > soldiers just to get involved in the war. It would have been utterly stupid to Just Let It Happen (tm). I can name over a dozen things that could have been done without "tipping anybody's hand" about the attack. Letting the fleet get hammered was the least likely course of action even if FDR was a freaking VAMPIRE. Please, apply a little critical thinking here. Which is better: FDR knows about the attack and does nothing, risking exposure and defamation OR FDR who knows about the attack and, "by the deligence of our administration" averts sure disaster by thwarting the dastardly plans of the evil Japanese? I mean, really, what choice makes more sense? So, if he did know and did nothing, what the hell would he do that for? > I don't know if you think that was a strategic good decision, but I > find it rather disgusting. It's disgusting the kind of stupid rumors you hear about this event. Most of them originate from people who hated FDR so much that they will do anything to defame him. Sick minds. Larry J > Andre

Daxe you are the nearest thing to a terrorist that ive ever heard on a newsgroup. The difference between someone fighting a 'holy war' against the west and the way you think is very very small. I suggest you kit yourself up with uzi's and shotguns and a few handgrenades and go and take them out yourself ... the world really really needs another rambo just about now. "daxe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:W5wa8.785$[email hidden]...

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> > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > daxe wrote: > > > > > > My friend, with such a nasty, mean-spirited outlook to those less > > fortunate than yourself, I really hope you never end up on that end of > > the stick. > > Ive been there, pal. EMotionally, financially and physically, and I got > out. > > ~daxe > >

daxe wrote:

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> > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > daxe wrote: > > > > > > My friend, with such a nasty, mean-spirited outlook to those less > > fortunate than yourself, I really hope you never end up on that end of > > the stick. > > Ive been there, pal. EMotionally, financially and physically, and I got > out. > > ~daxe

So have I. But I've never forgotten where I was or what it was like for me & everyone else in my same predicament. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

daxe wrote: > > > We'd have nothing to fear if we didn't have the nasty habit of poking > > our noses in others' business & making enemies aplenty because of it. > > That is a horribly naive thing to say. Did Kuwait stick its nose into Iraqs > business? No. We gave Iraq "permission" in private. Then went ballistic publicly. http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html The rest of your post doesn't deserve my time. -- Fester "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" from alt.linux.mandrake NG

Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> writes: > All the other theories are ofcourse nonsense, including that crash at > Monza theory, Now, there's been a lot of silly things said in this thread, but this must be the most miguided statement of them all. > PS Guess what, I just read proof that the Earth -is- flat! Nope, It's hollow. : http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/hollow-earth.html -- -asbjxrn, hook, line and sinker.

To all of you I say........ . . . . . . . . . . . . . . GPL is not realistic. David G Fisher "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3GBa8.9125$[email hidden]...

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> "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse > news:giBa8.3881$7n.10275@shaw-ty1... > > > > "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:02:26 GMT, "David G Fisher" > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > <snip> > > > >terrorists attacks here in the U.S.or Europe before this stupid flag > > waving > > > >stops and people stop blindly believing the crap coming from the

White

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> > > >House. > > > > > > > >David G Fisher > > > > > > What a great post.. I mean that.. what is happening to me?? > > > > > > Andre > > > > > > > I know what you mean, I feel the same way. > > (Must...continue....to...reflexively...disagree....with....DGF) > > > > One thing to keep in mind right now: THIS is the important stuff! > > Think about that next time you argue with DGF. > > /Jens > >

I thought some might want to see this story. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/politics/DailyNews/gore_020211.html I think this man has a little better grasp of what the causes of terrorism are than GB. David G Fisher "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > daxe wrote: > > > > > We'd have nothing to fear if we didn't have the nasty habit of poking > > > our noses in others' business & making enemies aplenty because of it. > > > > That is a horribly naive thing to say. Did Kuwait stick its nose intoIraqs

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> > business? > > > No. We gave Iraq "permission" in private. Then went ballistic > publicly. http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/glaspie.html > > The rest of your post doesn't deserve my time. > > -- > > Fester > > "Is it that we need a nobrainer Linux desktop OS for people with no > brains or should people do a little more reading and smarten up?" > from alt.linux.mandrake NG

On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:12:08 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >To all of you I say........ >. >GPL is not realistic. > >David G Fisher Nope. No single sim released yet is realistic. But GPL comes close and is damn fun. And has excellent 20-multiplayer support. :) Andre

daxe wrote:

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> > "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > I am important to me and I do care what I think of myself. My opinion > > is one of the few I treasure! :) I would hate to know that I was the > > killer of children - a more pathetic thing to have in one's memory I > > cannot imagine! > > you guys have trouble with the concept of direct cause and effect, dont you?

Is that like, because I am born in Iraq, I deserve to die before I reach the age of 6 months because the leader is off the rails? Is this the DIRECT cause and effect you mean? So let me get this straight - those children deserve to die because of Saddam? What are they DIRECTLY guilty of? > > >BTW, if you don't have a problem with it then why the > > use of the word "guilty"? > > You introduced that word, Byron, not me. Yes! And you agreed! Why? > > > And exactly what is important to you? Are you > > important to you even? > > lots of things, all of them renedered more SAFE by the USAs agressive policy > of defense. Like the Twin Towers? (Aggressive Policy? LOL. How about hopelessly insane and incompetent? And let's not forget this is the U.N. - subtle distinction? In any case, all the politicians love to have the U.N. to hide behind. After all, their job description is - Take the credit for things you have nothing to do with and the responsibility for nothing) > > >And if I'm not important to you then why respond > > to my completely unimportant posts? > > for the sake of argument. Now your getting honest!

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> > > Yes. Saddam does control the U.N. I suppose! He rang them and told > > them to put economic sanctions on Iraq. Yes, of course! So long a they > > don't effect him or his goons? > > that affect, not effect. You argument is such nonsense that it isnt worth > battling. IF you cant understand what I said plainly, then you arent very > bright.

So you get the point then? Of course it's absurd to say Saddam is Solely to blame for those dying children! > > > The most important thing about this comment is the insult on the end. > > no, but its hard not to call someone who missed such an obvious point, > something. What point? The only point you have made so far is that you concede you are guilty of your part in the torture/slaughter of children and that you have no problem with it! > > > So I'm cutting in a little am I? :) > > not really. actually you are trying too hard to be cutting and are coming > across like a smartass kid. Hmmmm....... Kid? Maybe that's why I'm so sympathetic with babies?

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> > >Your at an important crossroads here > > pal - you can continue in denial and rebellion against what I say and > > decay into nothing, or admit that your COMPLETELY WRONG, learn and grow. > > geez. im sorry I didnt realize that you control my destiny. please accept > my apology.

What are you apologizing for? Start with the Iraqis, then your fellow Americans and then get back to the rest of us later! > > ~daxe

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Getting flashbacks from playing "Carrier Command II" here....:-), I have > it on floppy disks here somewhere....... Shhhh. You're exposing the source of my knowledge here... Jason

daxe wrote:

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> > "Byron Forbes" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > Hmmmmmmmm....... Ok pups. Welcome to the nuclear age! :) One loss at > > this level and that's the last war you get to fight idiot! > > and so explain to me why preventing other countries from having nuclear > weapons, especially ones prone to doing things like flying planes into > buildings, is not a good idea?

I never even made a comment along these lines. Your a good complement to GWB ie instead of shut me up, just make a puppet out of me! Good stuff!

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> > > Do you have > > any idea how easily those 4 aircraft could have been loaded with > > chemicals, bombs, etc? > > less easily now than before, which ought to be enough to shut up people > whining about liberties being taken away.

LOL. Yes, now your invincible! ROTFL! You really kicked their ass this time - once and for all! Yeeeeeeehaaaaaa! LOL.

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> > > I'm starting to think that if someone pointed a > > gun at you that the danger wouldn't register - much like a dog! You'd no > > doubt start growling and then attack, aye? > > what the hell are you talking about? we are reposinding to danger and you > pinheads are trying to characterize it as some kind of selfish bullying.

Yes, responding to danger in the same way that insighted that danger in the first place. What a stroke of genius. Cure is better than prevention aye? Talk about a glutton for punishment! > > sheesh > > ~daxe

daxe wrote:

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> > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > If we have a problem with their nation's leadership, that's one thing. > > But WTF did these women & children do to us that we should treat them in > > such a inhumane way? > > WE arent treating them any way. WE are tretaing their nation, whose > responsibility it is to care for their own children. You see a direct cause > and effect with no middleman, I don't.

Gee, I thought you already plead guilty to this. And that you have no problem with the role you play in the torture/slaughter of babies. Screw the middleman bullshit!

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> > > Umm... it's called sovereignty. Why does the US try to play World > > Dictator? > > because we are the most powerful nation on earth and we wont stay that way > without defeating challenges, hopefully before they increase in > dangerousness

Ok. Then I "challenge" you and all like you in the U.S. to commit suicide! Or all those not like you to annihilate all like you! Problem solved!

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> > > We'd have nothing to fear if we didn't have the nasty habit of poking > > our noses in others' business & making enemies aplenty because of it. > > That is a horribly naive thing to say. Did Kuwait stick its nose into Iraqs > business? > > > You keep forgetting... we are the only nation to have used these things > > against others. We may have a case of national guilty conscience to > > think others are looking to do to us what we've done before. > > or maybe we have brains and foresight enough to head things like that off at > the pass instaed of sitting around like ninnies waiting for them to happen.

See above ie suicide/annihilation. > > > Who the hell are we to tell others how to run their lives? > > if others run their lives in a way that does not threaten us or some little > defenseless country, then we pretty much leave them alone. "Pretty much"? So just an occasional kick in the guts with the odd infant sacrifice?

Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Getting flashbacks from playing "Carrier Command II" here....:-), I have > it on floppy disks here somewhere....... Throw those away and find "The Grandest Fleet" insted, I have it right here on three floppies... it still rocks ;) Mikkel

"Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:3c6bd08d$0$22261$[email hidden]...

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> Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > Getting flashbacks from playing "Carrier Command II" here....:-), I have > > it on floppy disks here somewhere....... > > Throw those away and find "The Grandest Fleet" insted, I have it right here > on three floppies... it still rocks ;) >

Ooooh, must find Carrier Strike or Carriers at War. Again. I have wasted too many hours on these beauties long ago. Or perhaps a game of Gary Grigsby's Pacific War (freeware)? http://www.matrixgames.com/games/pacificwar/features.asp /Jens

daxe wrote:

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> > "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > daxe wrote: > > > > > > My friend, with such a nasty, mean-spirited outlook to those less > > fortunate than yourself, I really hope you never end up on that end of > > the stick. > > Ive been there, pal. EMotionally, financially and physically, and I got > out. > > ~daxe

No you didn't! Not ?emotionally? (Your word this time sweety!) anyway. I'd say you should stick to pure RAS posting until you advance along the learning curve (at least a few more major crossroads) quite a bit more!

"Jens H. Kruuse" wrote:

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> > "Mikkel Gram-Hansen" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse > news:3c6bd08d$0$22261$[email hidden]... > > Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > Getting flashbacks from playing "Carrier Command II" here....:-), I have > > > it on floppy disks here somewhere....... > > > > Throw those away and find "The Grandest Fleet" insted, I have it right here > > on three floppies... it still rocks ;) > > > > Ooooh, must find Carrier Strike or Carriers at War. Again. I have wasted too > many hours on these beauties long ago. Or perhaps a game of Gary Grigsby's > Pacific War (freeware)? > http://www.matrixgames.com/games/pacificwar/features.asp

Ooops, it was "Carriers at War" of course, memory is fading, getting old....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

jason moyer wrote:

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> > Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > > Getting flashbacks from playing "Carrier Command II" here....:-), I have > > it on floppy disks here somewhere....... > > Shhhh. You're exposing the source of my knowledge here...

ROFL, good one Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ * Spam is for losers who can't get business any other way * "Spamkiller" http://www.spamkiller.com

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:12:08 GMT, "David G Fisher" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >To all of you I say........ > >. > >GPL is not realistic. > > > >David G Fisher > > Nope. No single sim released yet is realistic. > But GPL comes close and is damn fun. > And has excellent 20-multiplayer support.

GPL = realistic racing, all the cars handle differently, the tracks are fantastically exciting to drive around, the GUI is superb, the controller set-up the best and most simple to use, the GPL community grows daily, 3rd party stuff grows daily too, the FOV can even be changed in game, a free floating camera came be flown around in replays and DFG's a twat :) F1 = a multi coloured pile of kevlar and carbon fibre parading around boring tracks in single file, which translates very poorly in terms of sim racing. Gerry

On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:29:50 +0100, "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Ooooh, must find Carrier Strike or Carriers at War. Again. I have wasted too >many hours on these beauties long ago. Or perhaps a game of Gary Grigsby's >Pacific War (freeware)? >http://www.matrixgames.com/games/pacificwar/features.asp > >/Jens Carrier Strike: http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=177 Lots more of 'boat games': http://www.theunderdogs.org/theme.php?name=Naval Have fun :) Andre

On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:47:39 +0000, Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote: >GPL = realistic racing, all the cars handle differently, the tracks are >fantastically exciting to drive around, the GUI is superb, the >controller set-up the best and most simple to use, the GPL community >grows daily, 3rd party stuff grows daily too, the FOV can even be >changed in game, a free floating camera came be flown around in replays >and DFG's a twat :) Whoa, big list of facts there :) But David is right in one point, the tire model of GPL is a bit lacking.. even Kaemmer and Cassidy said so in a chat we had with them. But even though the cars slide too much in GPL, it gives the best feeling of racing at high speed with fast, responsive but damn hard to handle cars, and that's what makes GPL still the best. Halleluja! Andre

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> skrev i en meddelelse news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:29:50 +0100, "Jens H. Kruuse" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Ooooh, must find Carrier Strike or Carriers at War. Again. I have wasted too > >many hours on these beauties long ago. Or perhaps a game of Gary Grigsby's > >Pacific War (freeware)? > >http://www.matrixgames.com/games/pacificwar/features.asp > > > >/Jens > > Carrier Strike: http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=177 > Lots more of 'boat games': > http://www.theunderdogs.org/theme.php?name=Naval > Have fun :) >

I've had a link to The Underdogs for more than a year. :-) Excellent site! /Jens

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:47:39 +0000, Gerry Aitken > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >GPL = realistic racing, all the cars handle differently, the tracks are > >fantastically exciting to drive around, the GUI is superb, the > >controller set-up the best and most simple to use, the GPL community > >grows daily, 3rd party stuff grows daily too, the FOV can even be > >changed in game, a free floating camera came be flown around in replays > >and DFG's a twat :) > > Whoa, big list of facts there :) > But David is right in one point, the tire model of GPL is a bit > lacking.. even Kaemmer and Cassidy said so in a chat we had with them. > But even though the cars slide too much in GPL, it gives the best > feeling of racing at high speed with fast, responsive but damn hard to > handle cars, and that's what makes GPL still the best. > Halleluja!

I think old fishface is a complete anal retard when it comes to physics models. He always snivels about the cars in gpl sliding too much, what else could you expect from a CPR fan!?! I think he should stick to Pod Racer!<G>

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... >I'm as embarassed by the U.S.'s shady dealings and their role in human >rights abuses around the world (particularly in Central America) as anyone, >but let's at least be historically correct. Problem is that Prange is not necessarily "historically correct." He is one of the inevitable anti-Conspiracy types that comes out in any possible debate. There is always the claim that we should just take the commonly accepted theory without question. -Tim

In article <Tzda8.11088$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... >Wow! There is no such thing as bad luck in the USA! Nobody ever loses their job >due to a recession, changing markets, or other events beyond their control. >Amazing. And no startup dot-com went out of business. And Enron is doing fine >and keeping all of the employees busy. There's the key term. Luck. We have a national mythos. Part of it states that anyone and everyone, through their own efforts, can and will succeed. (With that comes the unstated assertion that anyone who doesn't succeed obviously didn't work hard enough and is at fault.) Unfortunately, our myth is really incorrect. Yes, effort matters. But it is possible to fail despite effort, and it is possible to suceed despite lack of effort. All due to luck, really. Luck of the name you are born with is merely one example. -Tim

The Enigmatic One wrote:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > > >I'm as embarassed by the U.S.'s shady dealings and their role in human > >rights abuses around the world (particularly in Central America) as anyone, > >but let's at least be historically correct. > > Problem is that Prange is not necessarily "historically correct." He > is one of the inevitable anti-Conspiracy types that comes out in any possible > debate. There is always the claim that we should just take the commonly > accepted theory without question.

However, he backs up everything he says with well supported evidence, the result of obvious pain-staking research. The conspiracy folks just throw out wild speculation based on the flimsiest of circumstantial evidence and willfully ignore any evidence contrary to their position. Dave Ewing -- ***************************************************** David A. Ewing Xilinx Boulder [email hidden] *****************************************************

Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> wrote in > > "Whether he needed McCollum to outline them for him or not, FDR > unquestionably adopted policies, most significantly an embargo on trade > with Japan, that any knowledgeable person should have seen would > dramatically increase the likelihood of war." You could go back further than that, and examine how an isolationist country had lived in peace for 300 years before the US sent a fleet of warships into Tokyo bay and said basically "Trade with us or we'll fucking kill the lot of you". But then, as a Brit, I've enough history to be ashamed of without picking on the US in particular (It seems we picked on India just so we could get a "success" having been kicked out of the Americas), but also just enough reason to be proud, I think. which is just about all most people want at the end of the day, assuming they've got food and shelter. cheers John

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> Because it implies that FDR willingly sacrificed his own troops. Never > mind about the ships but setting up your own armed forces for slaughter > seems cynical and ruthless to some. I am personally an admirer of > W.T.Sherman, so the thought is not nearly as abhorrent to me. > > /Jens >

Allied leaders "allowed" the Luftwaffe to bomb the living shit out of Coventry (having known of the proposed attack well beforehand) without so much as a hint of evacuation for fear of revealing that the Enigma codes had been deciphered. Our leaders have been capable of many terrible things when it came down to it. That's not to say I believe immediately that FDR created some conspiracy, but I don't think the idea is so unlikely. I'd rather look forward than back, but I see history repeating every day on the news. cheers John

In article <[email hidden]>, Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> writes:

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>On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:29:50 +0100, "Jens H. Kruuse" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Ooooh, must find Carrier Strike or Carriers at War. Again. I have wasted too >>many hours on these beauties long ago. Or perhaps a game of Gary Grigsby's >>Pacific War (freeware)? >>http://www.matrixgames.com/games/pacificwar/features.asp >> >>/Jens > >Carrier Strike: http://www.theunderdogs.org/game.php?id=177 >Lots more of 'boat games': >http://www.theunderdogs.org/theme.php?name=Naval >Have fun :)

There goes the rest of my weekend...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <TBRa8.9450$[email hidden]>, "Jens H. Kruuse" <[email hidden]> writes: >Ooooh, must find Carrier Strike or Carriers at War. Again. I have wasted too >many hours on these beauties long ago. Or perhaps a game of Gary Grigsby's >Pacific War (freeware)? >http://www.matrixgames.com/games/pacificwar/features.asp Carriers at War was a great game! I couldn't beat it without cheating, though...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.