F1 2002 Wish List

With F1 2002 threatening to appear in May, I'm worried that it will be nothing more than a season update. F1 2001 is a great game, but there are some things that really need to be fixed. Things I'd like to see in F1 2002 - 1) Split axis controller support without a 50% dead zone (i.e. figure out how to do it right). 2) Why is this the only game I have that I have to enter the sign for the force feedback direction? Every other game I has manages to figure this out without my help. This has confused quite a few people and turned them off to what is otherwise an excellent FF implementation. 3) Completely overhauled setup file system - separate directories for each track, separate identities or extensions for each vehicle, no typing in the goddamn file name every time you want to resave it,.... 4) Completely overhauled menus - damn near everything backs out to the main menu. Sometimes I just want to go one level back, but I can't. 5) Better tracks - more attention to road surface smoothness, crown, and camber. 6) More thorough setup options - there are options in the setup file that are not exposed in the menus, and the range of spring, bar, and damper settings is insufficient. 7) Multiplayer - I realize there are potential licensing issues, but I am told that it is not even reliable on a LAN. Just get TCP/IP LAN play working reliably, and the user community will do the rest. Anybody have anything else to add?

"Haqsau"> Anybody have anything else to add? > I pretty much agree with all that, but...if they are coming out with it in May, then we are too late to be of any use. Surely by now all features will be locked and only debugging/balancing will be occuring. dave henrie

> 2) Why is this the only game I have that I have to enter the sign for > the force feedback direction? Every other game I has manages to figure > this out without my help. This has confused quite a few people and > turned them off to what is otherwise an excellent FF implementation.As far as I know the direction thing only affected some older (serial?) wheels, most were happy with the 'normal' direction. Why would people get 'turned off' by this? Surely it's just a case of moving a slider - hardly a major effort. > 3) Completely overhauled setup file system - separate directories for > each track, separate identities or extensions for each vehicle, no > typing in the goddamn file name every time you want to resave it,....To me, this is the most important aspect. This needs to happen! The current system is a real pain. > 4) Completely overhauled menus - damn near everything backs out to the > main menu. Sometimes I just want to go one level back, but I can't.What is an example of not being able to go back one level? I would like to see the 'ghost lap' facility that is so useful in the Ubi titles. It is the best way of getting your lap times down IMO. Iain

"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a4a5lh$1dv2v6$[email hidden]...

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> With F1 2002 threatening to appear in May, I'm worried that it will be > nothing more than a season update. F1 2001 is a great game, but there > are some things that really need to be fixed. Things I'd like to see in > F1 2002 - > > 1) Split axis controller support without a 50% dead zone (i.e. figure > out how to do it right).

Never seen the problem -works great for me with an MSFF, and great for a mate with LWFF and BRD Pedals. > 2) Why is this the only game I have that I have to enter the sign for > the force feedback direction? Every other game I has manages to figure > this out without my help. This has confused quite a few people and > turned them off to what is otherwise an excellent FF implementation. If you get confused by that - then god help you if you try and cross a road - you have to look both ways and everything > 3) Completely overhauled setup file system - separate directories for > each track, separate identities or extensions for each vehicle, no > typing in the goddamn file name every time you want to resave it,.... Agreed - the current system is moronic. > 4) Completely overhauled menus - damn near everything backs out to the > main menu. Sometimes I just want to go one level back, but I can't. Agreed - clunky - inefficient - slow - generally bolllocks > 5) Better tracks - more attention to road surface smoothness, crown, and > camber. The NUMBER ONE REASON THAT F12001 SUCKS!!! The tracks are totally appauling. Take a look at F1RC tracks - they make F12001 look like something from a console. (I refer to accuracy and detail - not the general look - although F1RC wins that to) > 6) More thorough setup options - there are options in the setup file > that are not exposed in the menus, and the range of spring, bar, and > damper settings is insufficient. Never gonna happen - the ammount of setup options is verging on excess as it is. > 7) Multiplayer - I realize there are potential licensing issues, but I > am told that it is not even reliable on a LAN. Just get TCP/IP LAN play > working reliably, and the user community will do the rest. > Anybody have anything else to add? How about a physics engine that isnt so innacurate that you have to have F1 cars with spring ratios about 1/3rd of what they are in real life? Doug > > >

"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2L2a8.34223$[email hidden]... > I would like to see the 'ghost lap' facility that is so useful in the Ubi > titles. It is the best way of getting your lap times down IMO. > > Iain I said the same thing recently. The ghost lap feature also makes hotlapping a lot more fun. At least you're racing against 'something'. Also, if you screw up a lap, all you have to do is hit a key and you are instantly put back at the s/f line instead of having to finish a botched lap. David G Fisher

On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:57:47 -0000, "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> 1) Split axis controller support without a 50% dead zone (i.e. figure >> out how to do it right). > >Never seen the problem -works great for me with an MSFF, and great for a >mate with LWFF and BRD Pedals. I do have the same problem - both with my lwff+ch pedals and my momo - and no freaking way this is solvable.. tried -everything-.

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>> 2) Why is this the only game I have that I have to enter the sign for >> the force feedback direction? Every other game I has manages to figure >> this out without my help. This has confused quite a few people and >> turned them off to what is otherwise an excellent FF implementation. > >If you get confused by that - then god help you if you try and cross a >road - you have to look both ways and everything

Silly remark - he is right, it's only confusing and I also can't see why f1 2001 is the only sim who has this err.. 'feature'. Andre

On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 06:37:50 -0000, "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote: >As far as I know the direction thing only affected some older (serial?) >wheels, most were happy with the 'normal' direction. My Momo is not old.. and nope, also not serial. >Why would people get >'turned off' by this? Surely it's just a case of moving a slider - hardly a >major effort. Because it's one of many 'vague' options for the ff. I messed a lot with different settings, and well, as you will have read in many forums, for some the ff is amazing, for some the ff is total garbage, even with the same wheels. Like most other things in f1 2001, you know it -can- be very good, it just takes so damn much tweaking and guessing to get it all working good.. I would like to see a WORKING MULTIPLAYER btw so all the hotlapping in f1 2001 and the GT mod actually have some use. Andre

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:57:47 -0000, "Douglas Ellison" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >> 1) Split axis controller support without a 50% dead zone (i.e. figure > >> out how to do it right). > > > >Never seen the problem -works great for me with an MSFF, and great for a > >mate with LWFF and BRD Pedals. > > I do have the same problem - both with my lwff+ch pedals and my momo - > and no freaking way this is solvable.. tried -everything-.

I don't have these problems with the MOMO. I use settings based on settings by a guy called 'Garrison', at the High Gear Forums, maybe you should give these a try: http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~hg/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=185216#post1 85216 It's a combination of game controller settings (windows), and in game settings. I changed the FF level to positive instead of negative, and I've made the overall FF strength 90% instead of 85%. It's all in the text file attachment (at the forum). Ice D

On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:06:01 GMT, "Ice D" <[email hidden]> wrote: >It's a combination of game controller settings (windows), and in game >settings. I changed the FF level to positive instead of negative, and I've >made the overall FF strength 90% instead of 85%. It's all in the text file >attachment (at the forum). > >Ice D Thanks for the info, I'll sure will give it a try! But.. I read a couple of threads about ff and specific for the Momo, and I tried all the settings and suggestions I read.. not one of them was really succesfull. It's hard to say what is really lacking, but to put it simple: In GPL (Hi David) and in N4 the ff is so good I truly feel what the car is doing, when it's about to lose grip so I can counteract in time. I thought that maybe this was not supposed to happen in an F1 car, that you can't feel when you're driving on the edge, but I'm not too sure about that.. I guess we would see a lot more wrecks at every F1 race :-/ But the lacking ff became much more obvious when I tried the GT mod.. Yup, something is missing allright.. I'll let you know if your settings work for me, thanks again. Andre

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> Because it's one of many 'vague' options for the ff. I messed a lot > with different settings, and well, as you will have read in many > forums, for some the ff is amazing, for some the ff is total garbage, > even with the same wheels. Like most other things in f1 2001, you know > it -can- be very good, it just takes so damn much tweaking and > guessing to get it all working good.. >

Andre Although I know some people have had problems, for most people there are no 'vague' ff options, there is only a selection of 'low to full' effects, and a strength setting. The 'total garbage' you refer to seems to be down to the hardware drivers being used. With one set of drivers for my Ferrari wheel the ff was 'garbage' but installing a newer version made the ff 'amazing'. It's a pity that this is not straightforward for everyone, I agree. Iain

> In GPL (Hi David) and in N4 the ff is so good I truly feel > what the car is doing, when it's about to lose grip so I can > counteract in time. > Andre You get exactly the same effects in F1 2001, but as discussed elsewhere, not everyone is able to get their wheel working to best effect. The ff here is every bit as good as GPL. Iain

"Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2L2a8.34223$[email hidden]... > As far as I know the direction thing only affected some older(serial?) > wheels, most were happy with the 'normal' direction. Why would peopleget > 'turned off' by this? Surely it's just a case of moving a slider -hardly a > major effort. I believe all Logitech wheels require the negative direction. > > 4) Completely overhauled menus - damn near everything backs out tothe > > main menu. Sometimes I just want to go one level back, but I can't. > What is an example of not being able to go back one level? Two examples I can think of. First, when you are done with a test session, if you hit the back button it takes you back to the main menu. I would like to be able to go back just one level so I can change tracks, or even two levels so I can change cars, esp. since going back to the main menu generally means waiting for the car and track selection graphics to load again. Secondly, in the controller setup, if you click on a controller icon in order to set axis sensitivities, and then want to go back one level to reassign keys or check to make sure you are setting the right axis, you can't, the back button takes you all the way back to the main menu. I just think it is far more logical for the back button to always take you back one and only one level, as is common in other programs.

Whoops, missed one: "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2L2a8.34223$[email hidden]... > Why would people get > 'turned off' by this? Surely it's just a case of moving a slider -hardly a > major effort. What I am referring to here is that it seems like a lot of people who have come to this NG with complaints about FF not working right simply had the sign backwards, and did not understand the menus or what they were feeling well enough to realize that this was the problem. Since this NG only represents a pretty small minority of the people actually playing the game, I'm betting a lot of people out there got this wrong, and are thinking that the FF sucks as a result. Which is sad, because it works great if you can get it set up right.

"Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a4alea$1djdsh$[email hidden]... > > "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a4a5lh$1dv2v6$[email hidden]... > > > > 1) Split axis controller support without a 50% dead zone (i.e.figure > > out how to do it right). > > Never seen the problem -works great for me with an MSFF, and great fora > mate with LWFF and BRD Pedals. Are you sure? Because I honestly thought mine was working fine too until somebody explained the problem. You can in fact use split axis, and the game does recognize it and allow you to use both pedals simultaneously, but it still treats it as if the real axis center is supposed to be the bottom of the pedal travel. IOW it lets you use split axis but it does not see the whole axis, it is still treating it the same way it would a combined axis controller. This is just plain and simple a bug, and it needs to be fixed. Some people have worked around it by changing the axis values using DXTweak, but I am concerned about the effect this will have on other games, so I haven't tried it. I frankly originally thought everything was fine, and the problem was just weak brakes and an engine that doesn't respond well unless it is way up in the revs. Then I read the explanation of the problem, got down on the floor and worked the pedals by hand while listening for the response, and sure enough, the bottom half of the pedal travel was not having any effect. If you don't believe me, try setting your pedals to combined axis mode, they should all of a sudden feel a lot more responsive. I can't get used to right foot braking again, so I am still using split axis, and I have just gotten used to what is effectively a 50% dead zone. But I would prefer it if it worked correctly, this would give much more control. > > 2) Why is this the only game I have that I have to enter the signfor > > the force feedback direction? Every other game I has manages tofigure > > this out without my help. This has confused quite a few people and > > turned them off to what is otherwise an excellent FF implementation. > > If you get confused by that - then god help you if you try and cross a > road - you have to look both ways and everything LOL! See my second response to Iain for an explanation of what I meant. > How about a physics engine that isnt so innacurate that you have tohave F1 > cars with spring ratios about 1/3rd of what they are in real life? Hmm, not sure about that one. The max. spring rate (250 N/mm) is high enough that it is in the same range as the tire spring rate (typ. 210 - 230 depending on pressure) and packer spring rate (also 250 N/mm). Those values are directly from the generic.tbc and williams.hdv files, respectively. The problem I have been having is that even with fairly light springs it seems to be impossible to apply sufficient damping to the suspension, which is why you spend so much time bouncing around the track. I want to be able to apply more damping. Also it's bass-ackwards that you can stick a max 300 N/mm bar on the front and only a max 150 N/mm bar on the back. If you proportion the spring rates to the weight distribution, you usually end up needing a rear bar that is the same or slightly larger than the front.

Add! 8) In game control calibration to make my wheel run correctly! "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a4a5lh$1dv2v6$[email hidden]...

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| With F1 2002 threatening to appear in May, I'm worried that it will be | nothing more than a season update. F1 2001 is a great game, but there | are some things that really need to be fixed. Things I'd like to see in | F1 2002 - | | 1) Split axis controller support without a 50% dead zone (i.e. figure | out how to do it right). | 2) Why is this the only game I have that I have to enter the sign for | the force feedback direction? Every other game I has manages to figure | this out without my help. This has confused quite a few people and | turned them off to what is otherwise an excellent FF implementation. | 3) Completely overhauled setup file system - separate directories for | each track, separate identities or extensions for each vehicle, no | typing in the goddamn file name every time you want to resave it,.... | 4) Completely overhauled menus - damn near everything backs out to the | main menu. Sometimes I just want to go one level back, but I can't. | 5) Better tracks - more attention to road surface smoothness, crown, and | camber. | 6) More thorough setup options - there are options in the setup file | that are not exposed in the menus, and the range of spring, bar, and | damper settings is insufficient. | 7) Multiplayer - I realize there are potential licensing issues, but I | am told that it is not even reliable on a LAN. Just get TCP/IP LAN play | working reliably, and the user community will do the rest. | | Anybody have anything else to add? | | |

A couple more I just thought of - - Replays in RAM rather than to disk, like in Papy sims. I much prefer being able to edit the replay after a run and save only the chunk I want, and to not have to save it at all if nothing interesting happened. - Better replay facility. - In-game telemetry. SiPhi's telemetry tool is nice, but if you go in and out of the game to use it you lose FF. I don't think there is anything Simon can do to fix this, I think it is an operating system thing. Plus in-game telemetry to RAM would avoid the constant disk accesses and occasional pauses that happen with SiPhi's program. - The ability to watch the AI from a cockpit view. "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a4a5lh$1dv2v6$[email hidden]... > With F1 2002 threatening to appear in May, I'm worried that it will be > nothing more than a season update. F1 2001 is a great game, but there > are some things that really need to be fixed. Things I'd like to seein > F1 2002 - > > 1) Split axis controller support without a 50% dead zone (i.e. figure > out how to do it right). > 2) Why is this the only game I have that I have to enter the sign for > the force feedback direction? Every other game I has manages tofigure

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> this out without my help. This has confused quite a few people and > turned them off to what is otherwise an excellent FF implementation. > 3) Completely overhauled setup file system - separate directories for > each track, separate identities or extensions for each vehicle, no > typing in the goddamn file name every time you want to resave it,.... > 4) Completely overhauled menus - damn near everything backs out to the > main menu. Sometimes I just want to go one level back, but I can't. > 5) Better tracks - more attention to road surface smoothness, crown,

and > camber. > 6) More thorough setup options - there are options in the setup file > that are not exposed in the menus, and the range of spring, bar, and > damper settings is insufficient. > 7) Multiplayer - I realize there are potential licensing issues, but I > am told that it is not even reliable on a LAN. Just get TCP/IP LANplay > working reliably, and the user community will do the rest. > > Anybody have anything else to add? > > >

To be honest, I think these are fairly trivial criticisms. I mean coming out of test day and going back to the main menu is quite logical I would say. Anyway, it takes about 1 sec to load the car and track selection graphics again if you want to select another track. The other example you mentioned doesn't happen with me. If I am in the axes adjust menu, clicking on the back button takes me to the options menu, and not 'all the way back' to the main menu. One of the real pains of other software is endlessly clicking back buttons to get back to the main menu - GP3 perfect example. I actually find it quite useful being able to get back quickly. Iain

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> Two examples I can think of. First, when you are done with a test > session, if you hit the back button it takes you back to the main menu. > I would like to be able to go back just one level so I can change > tracks, or even two levels so I can change cars, esp. since going back > to the main menu generally means waiting for the car and track selection > graphics to load again. Secondly, in the controller setup, if you click > on a controller icon in order to set axis sensitivities, and then want > to go back one level to reassign keys or check to make sure you are > setting the right axis, you can't, the back button takes you all the way > back to the main menu. I just think it is far more logical for the back > button to always take you back one and only one level, as is common in > other programs. >

In <a4c86c$1e3viq$[email hidden]>, Haqsau wrote:

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> "Douglas Ellison" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a4alea$1djdsh$[email hidden]... >> >> "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >> news:a4a5lh$1dv2v6$[email hidden]... >> > >> > 1) Split axis controller support without a 50% dead zone (i.e. > figure >> > out how to do it right). >> >> Never seen the problem -works great for me with an MSFF, and great for > a >> mate with LWFF and BRD Pedals. > > Are you sure? Because I honestly thought mine was working fine too > until somebody explained the problem. You can in fact use split axis, > and the game does recognize it and allow you to use both pedals > simultaneously, but it still treats it as if the real axis center is > supposed to be the bottom of the pedal travel.

I didn't have this with my origin lwff or with my momo and 98SE. I get full travel on both pedals as split axis without any 50% thing at all. As far as the dead zone goes I also fiddle around a bit on my first half lap before trying to improve my http://www.the-best.racesim.net score. which involves getting used to the pedal travel for throttle and braking control - some times both at once, and moving them through full travel in variuos gears. I definitely have full travel for each input (at least it feels like it and the car acts like it). I would like to see in F12k1 a setup screen like that in Colin McRae Rally 2 (with a few little bugs fixed) where you can see your axis movement, and set your dead zones and so on visually. That would make this kind of problem so much easier to sort out.

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> IOW it lets you use > split axis but it does not see the whole axis, it is still treating it > the same way it would a combined axis controller. This is just plain > and simple a bug, and it needs to be fixed. Some people have worked > around it by changing the axis values using DXTweak, but I am concerned > about the effect this will have on other games, so I haven't tried it. I > frankly originally thought everything was fine, and the problem was just > weak brakes and an engine that doesn't respond well unless it is way up > in the revs. Then I read the explanation of the problem, got down on > the floor and worked the pedals by hand while listening for the > response, and sure enough, the bottom half of the pedal travel was not > having any effect. If you don't believe me, try setting your pedals to > combined axis mode, they should all of a sudden feel a lot more > responsive. I can't get used to right foot braking again, so I am still > using split axis, and I have just gotten used to what is effectively a > 50% dead zone. But I would prefer it if it worked correctly, this would > give much more control. >

Is it just my copy, or does F1-2001 have the world's worst corner workers? Wings are still lying on the road several laps after an incident. However, if you select a replay, then they are gone after the replay. Stephen "Iain Mackenzie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:oBya8.58731$[email hidden]... > To be honest, I think these are fairly trivial criticisms. I mean comingout > of test day and going back to the main menu is quite logical I would say. > Anyway, it takes about 1 sec to load the car and track selection graphics > again if you want to select another track. > > The other example you mentioned doesn't happen with me. If I am in theaxes > adjust menu, clicking on the back button takes me to the options menu, and > not 'all the way back' to the main menu. > > One of the real pains of other software is endlessly clicking back buttons > to get back to the main menu - GP3 perfect example. I actually find itquite

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> useful being able to get back quickly. > > Iain > > > Two examples I can think of. First, when you are done with a test > > session, if you hit the back button it takes you back to the main menu. > > I would like to be able to go back just one level so I can change > > tracks, or even two levels so I can change cars, esp. since going back > > to the main menu generally means waiting for the car and track selection > > graphics to load again. Secondly, in the controller setup, if you click > > on a controller icon in order to set axis sensitivities, and then want > > to go back one level to reassign keys or check to make sure you are > > setting the right axis, you can't, the back button takes you all the way > > back to the main menu. I just think it is far more logical for the back > > button to always take you back one and only one level, as is common in > > other programs. > > > >