Problem with Nascar 2002 & Voodoo

I'm running Nascar Season 2002 on a Voodoo4 card (latest official driver) in Direct3D (not TnL) mode at 1024x768x16 resolution, with DirectX 8 installed, and I'm seeing some artifacts which are spoiling it for me. Specifically, there are dark marks on the yellow apron line, and also close to the outer walls. Also, the shading on the outer wall from white to black is done poorly, in a very non-gradual manner. It's a bit difficult to describe, so here's a screenshot: http://members.rogers.com/krakus/NR2002ss001.jpg I assume that the same thing would appear on Voodoo5's. The readme.txt mentions the following for Voodoo4/5, which seems to match what I'm seeing: "Black or multi-colored bands can be seen in the lower mips of narrow textures (walls, painted lines, etc.)." I haven't seen this in any other game. Any plans to fix this? Also, when running in OpenGL mode, I only get about a third of the framerate as in Direct3D.

Actually that looks like an improvement from the demo. The black on the walls also covered the track at about the same distance, the white curb paint would smear inside the infield and also tracks with yellow curbs would have a two-three foot smudge inside the curb line. One guy had no such problems, but I don't know what he did different. try...these steps set your desktop color to match your game resolution and depth..try both 16 bit color and or 32 bit. Try running N2002 inside a window....I'm not certain this can be fixed. Good luck. dave henrie "Krakus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7xDc8.1155$[email hidden]... > I'm running Nascar Season 2002 on a Voodoo4 card (latest official driver)in > Direct3D (not TnL) mode at 1024x768x16 resolution, with DirectX 8installed,

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> and I'm seeing some artifacts which are spoiling it for me. Specifically, > there are dark marks on the yellow apron line, and also close to the outer > walls. Also, the shading on the outer wall from white to black is done > poorly, in a very non-gradual manner. It's a bit difficult to describe, so > here's a screenshot: > > http://members.rogers.com/krakus/NR2002ss001.jpg > > I assume that the same thing would appear on Voodoo5's. The readme.txt > mentions the following for Voodoo4/5, which seems to match what I'm

seeing: > "Black or multi-colored bands can be seen in the lower mips of narrow > textures (walls, painted lines, etc.)." I haven't seen this in any other > game. Any plans to fix this? > > Also, when running in OpenGL mode, I only get about a third of theframerate > as in Direct3D. > >

With the demise of 3dfx, the subsequent lack of driver updates, and the closing of www.3dfx.com later today, it's HIGHLY unlikely that a fix will occur. Unless you absolutely must have Glide support, my honest suggestion would be to replace the card with a current 3D accelerator that is actively being supported by an non-defunct company. - Eric "Krakus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7xDc8.1155$[email hidden]... > I assume that the same thing would appear on Voodoo5's. The readme.txt > mentions the following for Voodoo4/5, which seems to match what I'mseeing: > "Black or multi-colored bands can be seen in the lower mips of narrow > textures (walls, painted lines, etc.)." I haven't seen this in anyother > game. Any plans to fix this?

>"Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote > With the demise of 3dfx, the subsequent lack of driver updates, and the > closing of www.3dfx.com later today, it's HIGHLY unlikely that a fix > will occur. What about other modern video cards that have such same problems with black bends, like the Kyro II boards ??? -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

It's possible that it could be addressed in a driver update, something that 3dfx owners really no longer have an opportunity to receive. - Eric "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:eYDc8.14877$[email hidden]... > What about other modern video cards that have such same problems withblack > bends, like the Kyro II boards ???

I haven't really noticed that on a Voodoo5. Although in the demo it looked similar to your sample JPG, I feel that it is much improved in the retail version. I have also noticed that the graphics really improve (at 1024x768) using 2X FSAA. Much more so than in other games, IMHO. Unfortunately, using FSAA also cuts the framerate right about in half....... Bert Krakus wrote:

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> I'm running Nascar Season 2002 on a Voodoo4 card (latest official driver) in > Direct3D (not TnL) mode at 1024x768x16 resolution, with DirectX 8 installed, > and I'm seeing some artifacts which are spoiling it for me. Specifically, > there are dark marks on the yellow apron line, and also close to the outer > walls. Also, the shading on the outer wall from white to black is done > poorly, in a very non-gradual manner. It's a bit difficult to describe, so > here's a screenshot: > > http://members.rogers.com/krakus/NR2002ss001.jpg > > I assume that the same thing would appear on Voodoo5's. The readme.txt > mentions the following for Voodoo4/5, which seems to match what I'm seeing: > "Black or multi-colored bands can be seen in the lower mips of narrow > textures (walls, painted lines, etc.)." I haven't seen this in any other > game. Any plans to fix this? > > Also, when running in OpenGL mode, I only get about a third of the framerate > as in Direct3D.

I haven't really noticed that on a Voodoo5. Although in the demo it looked similar to your sample JPG, I feel that it is much improved in the retail version. I have also noticed that the graphics really improve (at 1024x768) using 2X FSAA. Much more so than in other games, IMHO. Unfortunately, using FSAA also cuts the framerate right about in half....... Bert

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> I'm running Nascar Season 2002 on a Voodoo4 card (latest official driver) in > Direct3D (not TnL) mode at 1024x768x16 resolution, with DirectX 8 installed, > and I'm seeing some artifacts which are spoiling it for me. Specifically, > there are dark marks on the yellow apron line, and also close to the outer > walls. Also, the shading on the outer wall from white to black is done > poorly, in a very non-gradual manner. It's a bit difficult to describe, so > here's a screenshot: > http://members.rogers.com/krakus/NR2002ss001.jpg > I assume that the same thing would appear on Voodoo5's. The readme.txt > mentions the following for Voodoo4/5, which seems to match what I'm seeing: > "Black or multi-colored bands can be seen in the lower mips of narrow > textures (walls, painted lines, etc.)." I haven't seen this in any other > game. Any plans to fix this? > Also, when running in OpenGL mode, I only get about a third of the framerate > as in Direct3D.

So in other words, you're saying that it's a bug in the video card driver, and there's nothing that can be done to fix this in the game itself? I realize that the Voodoo cards can no longer be regarded as modern, but I'm sure that a large percentage of users still rely on them, so that's why I'm asking. I'm certainly not expecting any miracles in terms of performance, but I was at least hoping for a clean display. Anyway, thanks for the quick response.

I personally don't know just what the issue is. It could be in the game, or it could be due to a bug in the drivers. Unfortunately with 3dfx no longer around there aren't going to be any additional driver updates, and there's also no longer any type of dev support team to work with to track down issues such as this. - Eric "Krakus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:AtEc8.1205$[email hidden]... > So in other words, you're saying that it's a bug in the video carddriver, > and there's nothing that can be done to fix this in the game itself? I > realize that the Voodoo cards can no longer be regarded as modern, butI'm > sure that a large percentage of users still rely on them, so that'swhy I'm > asking. I'm certainly not expecting any miracles in terms ofperformance, > but I was at least hoping for a clean display. Anyway, thanks for thequick > response.

True, I can appreciate how it can be difficult to track these problems down without support from the manufacturer. Maybe I'll be lucky and there'll be some workaround in a future patch. Although the glitch is a little annoying, I can live with it until I can buy a new card. Thanks anyways.

I have the same problem with my Voodoo5, but I've gotten used to it more or less. If you aren't experiencing the same problem with your V5, may I ask what driver you're using and where you got it? :) Thanks, Joe BTW, for what it's worth, to the original poster, I think you'd be better off running 800x600 with 2XFSAA, it looks much cleaner than the screenshot you posted. "BRH @attbi.com>" <"bertrh<no-spam> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I haven't really noticed that on a Voodoo5. Although in the demo itlooked > similar to your sample JPG, I feel that it is much improved in the retail > version. > > I have also noticed that the graphics really improve (at 1024x768) using2X > FSAA. Much more so than in other games, IMHO. Unfortunately, using FSAAalso

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> cuts the framerate right about in half....... > > Bert > > > > > > Krakus wrote: > > > I'm running Nascar Season 2002 on a Voodoo4 card (latest official

driver) in > > Direct3D (not TnL) mode at 1024x768x16 resolution, with DirectX 8installed, > > and I'm seeing some artifacts which are spoiling it for me.Specifically, > > there are dark marks on the yellow apron line, and also close to theouter > > walls. Also, the shading on the outer wall from white to black is done > > poorly, in a very non-gradual manner. It's a bit difficult to describe,so > > here's a screenshot: > > > > http://members.rogers.com/krakus/NR2002ss001.jpg > > > > I assume that the same thing would appear on Voodoo5's. The readme.txt > > mentions the following for Voodoo4/5, which seems to match what I'mseeing: > > "Black or multi-colored bands can be seen in the lower mips of narrow > > textures (walls, painted lines, etc.)." I haven't seen this in any other > > game. Any plans to fix this? > > > > Also, when running in OpenGL mode, I only get about a third of theframerate > > as in Direct3D. >

Rubbish. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. There are new Voodoo drivers released more often than Nvidia drivers. Not by 3dfx but by the 3dfx community and fixes for current games are being done with these new drivers. I currently run Voodoo 5 Amigamerlin 2.0 Windows XP drivers. Full support of DirectX 8.0a, OpenGL, and Glide. I think the original poster was referring to Papyrus fixing their problems. While they're at it, they should also fix the issues with the Geforce cards and Soundblaster cards. -Tim "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a4v1i6$6ht$[email hidden]...

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> With the demise of 3dfx, the subsequent lack of driver updates, and the > closing of www.3dfx.com later today, it's HIGHLY unlikely that a fix > will occur. Unless you absolutely must have Glide support, my honest > suggestion would be to replace the card with a current 3D accelerator > that is actively being supported by an non-defunct company. > > - Eric > > > "Krakus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:7xDc8.1155$[email hidden]... > > I assume that the same thing would appear on Voodoo5's. The readme.txt > > mentions the following for Voodoo4/5, which seems to match what I'm > seeing: > > "Black or multi-colored bands can be seen in the lower mips of narrow > > textures (walls, painted lines, etc.)." I haven't seen this in any > other > > game. Any plans to fix this? > >

"Tim Miser" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WaGc8.23862$[email hidden]... > Rubbish. You obviously don't know what you're talking about. There arenew > Voodoo drivers released more often than Nvidia drivers. Not by 3dfx butby > the 3dfx community and fixes for current games are being done with thesenew > drivers. I currently run Voodoo 5 Amigamerlin 2.0 Windows XP drivers.Full > support of DirectX 8.0a, OpenGL, and Glide. > > I think the original poster was referring to Papyrus fixing theirproblems. > While they're at it, they should also fix the issues with the Geforcecards > and Soundblaster cards. > > -Tim I too would hope the issues with the various pieces of hardware can be resolved. But the 3dfx issue is more than just drivers being released...(I too use Amigamerlins for win98) But without 3dfx support, companies like Papyrus would have to reverse engineer the drivers and I don't think any Publisher these days will spring for the $$ that type of effort would require. Once upon a time, 3dfx had reps that would provide all the info a company needed. Heck the first Papyrus 3d title(ICR23d) was actually converted by Rendition employees not Papyrus. Now that 3dfx is toast, the info pipeline is closed. So even with new drivers, the company doesn't have the access to the people who wrote the drivers. While I'm sure there are plenty of 3dfx users still buying software, I would think a company would be insane to spend $$ trying to keep an abandoned product current. We as 3dfx users would be better served contacting the Amigamerlin team and informing them of the problems with nr 2002. Let companies like Papyrus worry about getting current hardware issues like the Soundblaster/Nvidia conflicts resolved. dave henrie

>"Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote > It's possible that it could be addressed in a driver update, something > that 3dfx owners really no longer have an opportunity to receive. Thank you very much. I'm unsure of the situation considering the business problems of the whole Kyro whizbang. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a4v2tb$cle$[email hidden]... > It's possible that it could be addressed in a driver update, something > that 3dfx owners really no longer have an opportunity to receive. > > - Eric There are people providing hacked drivers, even ones that work in XP. One can also buy new Voodoo drivers for $8.00 from Wicked that are supposed to be very good. I don't use a Voodoo myself anymore, but even these new Nvidia and Radeon cards still have driver issues. The company that makes a train sim called Trainz says in their FAQ that they only support Nvidia cards, even the box only lists Nvidia as recommended. After instaling the game I see why they said that because on my R8500 the D3D is a no go and under OpenGL I have to tun off T&L or else I get geometry distortion. No other game I own has a problem with D3D on this card. It's just BS, if I wanted to use a computer that only supported one brand then I would have bought a Mac. Not ragging on you, just a bit fed up having to buy new hardware and search for compatible drivers every time I buy a new game (which is often). Maybe I'll just stop buying the games and actually play what I have, won't need to upgrade for a long time if I do that and will save a nice bundle, probabl enough to buy a Mac. :-)

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:pAGc8.91211$fK1.4234856@rwcrnsc54... >I would think a company would be insane to > spend $$ trying to keep an abandoned product current. Read my other post in this thread. A company called Auran won't even support Radeon cards. They say to get a Nvidia card if you want their Trainz game to work correctly. Geez, we only have two real contenders left in the video card market (Nvidia and ATI) and they can't even support both of them. I forsee the near future where our PC's become as rigid in hardware choice as a Mac. At least Mac's have a better OS.

Since when, is that MAC OS a recent development? -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash lane <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a5044f$3fg4h$[email hidden]... > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:pAGc8.91211$fK1.4234856@rwcrnsc54... > >I would think a company would be insane to > > spend $$ trying to keep an abandoned product current. > > Read my other post in this thread. A company called Auran won't even support > Radeon cards. They say to get a Nvidia card if you want their Trainz game to > work correctly. Geez, we only have two real contenders left in the video > card market (Nvidia and ATI) and they can't even support both of them. I > forsee the near future where our PC's become as rigid in hardware choice as > a Mac. At least Mac's have a better OS. > > > >

"Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:d7Qc8.1652$[email hidden]... > Since when, is that MAC OS a recent development? > > -- > Biz Did I say it was?

No, I meant since when have MAC's had a better OS? I've supported MAc's for years, and I still think they suck big time. -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash lane <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a518oj$3t6f0$[email hidden]... > > "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:d7Qc8.1652$[email hidden]... > > Since when, is that MAC OS a recent development? > > > > -- > > Biz > > Did I say it was? > >

I have to correct an error I made in my previous post. I'm already running at 800x600 in D3D. With No FSAA, my framerate is about 75 during a 28 car race at Coca-Cola. At FSAA 2X, the frame rate is about 37. To answer your questions about the drivers I use, they are version 4.12.01.0666, dated 11-2-2000. They are from 3Dfx. Joe Reed wrote:

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> I have the same problem with my Voodoo5, but I've gotten used to it more or > less. If you aren't experiencing the same problem with your V5, may I ask > what driver you're using and where you got it? :) > > Thanks, > Joe > > BTW, for what it's worth, to the original poster, I think you'd be better > off running 800x600 with 2XFSAA, it looks much cleaner than the screenshot > you posted. > > "BRH @attbi.com>" <"bertrh<no-spam> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I haven't really noticed that on a Voodoo5. Although in the demo it > looked > > similar to your sample JPG, I feel that it is much improved in the retail > > version. > > > > I have also noticed that the graphics really improve (at 1024x768) using > 2X > > FSAA. Much more so than in other games, IMHO. Unfortunately, using FSAA > also > > cuts the framerate right about in half....... > > > > Bert > > > > > > > > > > > > Krakus wrote: > > > > > I'm running Nascar Season 2002 on a Voodoo4 card (latest official > driver) in > > > Direct3D (not TnL) mode at 1024x768x16 resolution, with DirectX 8 > installed, > > > and I'm seeing some artifacts which are spoiling it for me. > Specifically, > > > there are dark marks on the yellow apron line, and also close to the > outer > > > walls. Also, the shading on the outer wall from white to black is done > > > poorly, in a very non-gradual manner. It's a bit difficult to describe, > so > > > here's a screenshot: > > > > > > http://members.rogers.com/krakus/NR2002ss001.jpg > > > > > > I assume that the same thing would appear on Voodoo5's. The readme.txt > > > mentions the following for Voodoo4/5, which seems to match what I'm > seeing: > > > "Black or multi-colored bands can be seen in the lower mips of narrow > > > textures (walls, painted lines, etc.)." I haven't seen this in any other > > > game. Any plans to fix this? > > > > > > Also, when running in OpenGL mode, I only get about a third of the > framerate > > > as in Direct3D. > >

I have to correct an error I made in my previous post. I'm already running at 800x600 in D3D. With No FSAA, my framerate is about 75 during a 28 car race at Coca-Cola. At FSAA 2X, the frame rate is about 37. To answer your questions about the drivers I use, they are version 4.12.01.0666, dated 11-2-2000. They are from 3Dfx.

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> I have the same problem with my Voodoo5, but I've gotten used to it more or > less. If you aren't experiencing the same problem with your V5, may I ask > what driver you're using and where you got it? :) > Thanks, > Joe > BTW, for what it's worth, to the original poster, I think you'd be better > off running 800x600 with 2XFSAA, it looks much cleaner than the screenshot > you posted. > > I haven't really noticed that on a Voodoo5. Although in the demo it > looked > > similar to your sample JPG, I feel that it is much improved in the retail > > version. > > I have also noticed that the graphics really improve (at 1024x768) using > 2X > > FSAA. Much more so than in other games, IMHO. Unfortunately, using FSAA > also > > cuts the framerate right about in half....... > > Bert > > > I'm running Nascar Season 2002 on a Voodoo4 card (latest official > driver) in > > > Direct3D (not TnL) mode at 1024x768x16 resolution, with DirectX 8 > installed, > > > and I'm seeing some artifacts which are spoiling it for me. > Specifically, > > > there are dark marks on the yellow apron line, and also close to the > outer > > > walls. Also, the shading on the outer wall from white to black is done > > > poorly, in a very non-gradual manner. It's a bit difficult to describe, > so > > > here's a screenshot: > > > http://members.rogers.com/krakus/NR2002ss001.jpg > > > I assume that the same thing would appear on Voodoo5's. The readme.txt > > > mentions the following for Voodoo4/5, which seems to match what I'm > seeing: > > > "Black or multi-colored bands can be seen in the lower mips of narrow > > > textures (walls, painted lines, etc.)." I haven't seen this in any other > > > game. Any plans to fix this? > > > Also, when running in OpenGL mode, I only get about a third of the > framerate > > > as in Direct3D.

"Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:x7Wc8.15248$[email hidden]... > No, I meant since when have MAC's had a better OS? I've supported MAc'sfor years, and I still > think they suck big time. Well, I have to admit that I don't have lots of experience on Macs (some, but not much), but people are always saying it's better so I assumed they knew soemthing I didn't. :-)

In article <a4v1i6$6ht$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > >With the demise of 3dfx, the subsequent lack of driver updates, and the >closing of www.3dfx.com later today, it's HIGHLY unlikely that a fix >will occur. Unless you absolutely must have Glide support, my honest >suggestion would be to replace the card with a current 3D accelerator >that is actively being supported by an non-defunct company.

Some fucking answer from a corporate lap dog. As this is the level of support you can expect, just assume you bought an unworking product that doesn't work as advertised and begin fighting for a refund. -Tim