N2002 Frame Rate and # Of Sounds

What exactly is the difference between having the # of sounds set to 8 or up to 24? The game sounds the same to me with 8 or 24, but setting at 8 makes a huge improvement in frame rate. I know GPL has the same setup, but have forgotten the explanation. In D3D, the other ways to make a big frame rate improvement are to turn off reflections and anisotropic filtering, and to adjust the mirror detail down (with m and n keys). Why is that mirror such a frames hog? F1RC and F12001 have two mirrors (of course) but the frames hit isn't nearly as big. David G Fisher

On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:29:17 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >What exactly is the difference between having the # of sounds set to 8 or up >to 24? The game sounds the same to me with 8 or 24, but setting at 8 makes a >huge improvement in frame rate. I know GPL has the same setup, but have >forgotten the explanation. I only tried 8 channels in GPL when I installed it in the beginning, but as far as I can remember you simply hear more cars when you increase the number of sounds. I'll try 8 though in Nascar, I can need some fps gains at some places.. especially when the grandstands are on the screen the fps drops quite a lot. >In D3D, the other ways to make a big frame rate improvement are to turn off >reflections and anisotropic filtering, and to adjust the mirror detail down >(with m and n keys). Why is that mirror such a frames hog? F1RC and F12001 >have two mirrors (of course) but the frames hit isn't nearly as big. In GPL it's the same, mirrors EAT fps. Thank god gpl isn't so demanding by todays standards so it's 36fps all the time (the max in GPL). I once read a technical explanation for this but I can't remember where I read it. On my system the mirrors in F1 2001 did also cost quite some fps btw. And with the GT mod the mirrors are reversed :-/ Andre

I'm not seeing any FPS change with the # of sounds set from a low number (10) to a high (max) either. But, I'm suspicious that this would show up as a FPS hit depending on the cpu load during a race, type and cpu "muscle" in your system....and the type of sound card (remember, the SBL series takes most of the sound load of the cpu). As far as the mirrors.....sitting at Atlanta pits....I'm getting 49 FPS....it bumps to 54 FPS with the interior reflection removed...then up to 68 FPS with the mirror removed entirely. I like the realism....so I leave the mirrors on max....49 FPS is plenty of juice. I'm still not really pleased with the D3D jaggies....even at 1600 res. Trying to reduce them with a little FSAA or anistropic filtering....just knocks the FPS down too far (below 30 FPS....which it seems to me to be something of a minimum since it gets real choppy below that level). When I've reduced the screen res to say 1024....I can bump the FSAA and anistropic up to kill the jaggies...but then end up with a blurry screen....even with the LOD increased (tried several settings). The best graphic quality (compromise) seems to be 1600x32 and no FSAA or anistropic filtering. But...the jaggies are really bad in the driving target. OpenGL is no improvement...even though its better now that the 27.40 ref drivers include an LOD slider for OpenGL. Let's hope Papy can make some D3D or OpenGL graphic performance improvements in the first patch. Couple comments on other parts of N2002 now that I've got some seat time logged on it: 1. I really like the "driving lessons"......of course it helps that Darrel Waltrip is one of my favorite people in racing right now (I'd love to meet that guy some day). I think the lessons are very well done, entertaining...and provide really good information for novice sim drivers who want to take their N2002 racing a bit more seriously than the gamers. I'm using the lessons to refresh my racing at each track.....running for about a half hour.......no lessons. Then, I go to the lessons....review them several times and take some notes on exit speeds.....then go back to the track and work on fine tuning my line and get the basic race setup "in the window." This whole process takes about two hours per track....but highly worth the effort and much more "efficient" than the "pre lesson" days with N4 or N3. 2. The track graphics and "likeness" are superb. All the tracks I've actually raced on or been to as a fan......look as my memory sees them. Except of course, Sears....which is really only a "color" issue. Papy seems to think Sears is green...its not (except for a few weeks this time of year)....its brown/beige in June when the race happens. But, I will fix that when I can get to it....if Papy doesn't manage it by the patch. 3. I like the new-look to the UI screens and the click sounds are very well done...IMHO. 4. I hope somebody will work on taking the background out of the cockpit overlays for the speed/gear and the "race info" data box on the right. It would also be great if those could be moved around....so that those of us who don't care to see all of the cockpit floor (by increasing the monitor's FOV...and lowering the screen) can still see the in-cockpit data and gear/speed data. Tom "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hS4d8.57551$[email hidden]... > What exactly is the difference between having the # of sounds set to 8 orup > to 24? The game sounds the same to me with 8 or 24, but setting at 8 makesa > huge improvement in frame rate. I know GPL has the same setup, but have > forgotten the explanation. > > In D3D, the other ways to make a big frame rate improvement are to turnoff > reflections and anisotropic filtering, and to adjust the mirror detaildown > (with m and n keys). Why is that mirror such a frames hog? F1RC and F12001 > have two mirrors (of course) but the frames hit isn't nearly as big. > > David G Fisher > >

Tom Pabst <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iL9d8.106771$Pz4.493911@rwcrnsc53... <snip valid observations> > 4. I hope somebody will work on taking the background out of the cockpit > overlays for the speed/gear and the "race info" data box on the right. It > would also be great if those could be moved around....so that those of us > who don't care to see all of the cockpit floor (by increasing themonitor's > FOV...and lowering the screen) can still see the in-cockpit data and > gear/speed data. > > Tom > > This should show up soon Tom, I used the translucent (sp?) info boxes in N4 and really liked them. I would like to see Papy move away from the "Earnhardt" seat position though, I think it is too low in the car (can't see any hood until a wreck) and IMHO is too far to the center. Almost like a lowered "tv in-car cam" view really.

I reduced my sounds from the default down to 8. I got a huge boost in frames, probably about 15-20 in 800x600x16. Only problem is now when you are racing you will hear other cars cut-in and cut-out as other sounds override them. I'm using an AMD TBIRD 1gHz, Geforce 256 ddr, SB-Live Value "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:hS4d8.57551$[email hidden]... > What exactly is the difference between having the # of sounds set to 8 orup > to 24? The game sounds the same to me with 8 or 24, but setting at 8 makesa > huge improvement in frame rate. I know GPL has the same setup, but have > forgotten the explanation. > > In D3D, the other ways to make a big frame rate improvement are to turnoff > reflections and anisotropic filtering, and to adjust the mirror detaildown > (with m and n keys). Why is that mirror such a frames hog? F1RC and F12001 > have two mirrors (of course) but the frames hit isn't nearly as big. > > David G Fisher > >

On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 23:31:09 GMT, "floyd-j" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I reduced my sounds from the default down to 8. I got a huge boost in >frames, probably about 15-20 in 800x600x16. Only problem is now when you >are racing you will hear other cars cut-in and cut-out as other sounds >override them. > >I'm using an AMD TBIRD 1gHz, Geforce 256 ddr, SB-Live Value P3 500 GF2 GTS SBLive here.. the difference between 8 or 24 sounds is about 1-2 fps.. I don't run 3d sound btw because I get the problems of cracking sound and sometimes losing the engine sound.. Andre

"SimRacer" > > This should show up soon Tom, I used the translucent (sp?) info boxes inN4 > and really liked them. I would like to see Papy move away from the > "Earnhardt" seat position though, I think it is too low in the car (can't > see any hood until a wreck) and IMHO is too far to the center. Almost likea > lowered "tv in-car cam" view really. Check out the pre-race interviews when they talk to some of the drivers who are already strapped in....You will notice their chins BARELY clear the door...I don't think anybody 'cept may 6'4" Buddy Baker could see the hood sitting in one of those... dave henrie >

I sat in Labonte's car at Sears last year (during April testing)....I could see 70% of the hood just fine. The Papy FOV in N2002 is not even close to correct. I suspect they do it like they do....because it narrows the amount of "rendered" track to less than 1/4 of the screen....allowing for a lower "minimum specs" computer listing...which sells "boxes." That's only a guess. I was going to sit in Little E's seat too....but he wouldn't get out of it....and I wasn't going to sit on his lap. ....lol..... Tom "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:N6kd8.4197$[email hidden]... > > "SimRacer" > > > This should show up soon Tom, I used the translucent (sp?) info boxes in > N4 > > and really liked them. I would like to see Papy move away from the > > "Earnhardt" seat position though, I think it is too low in the car(can't > > see any hood until a wreck) and IMHO is too far to the center. Almostlike > a > > lowered "tv in-car cam" view really. > Check out the pre-race interviews when they talk to some of the drivers > who are already strapped in....You will notice their chins BARELY clearthe > door...I don't think anybody 'cept may 6'4" Buddy Baker could see the hood > sitting in one of those... > dave henrie > > > >

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iL9d8.106771$Pz4.493911@rwcrnsc53... > I'm not seeing any FPS change with the # of sounds set from a low number > (10) to a high (max) either. But, I'm suspicious that this would show upas > a FPS hit depending on the cpu load during a race, type and cpu "muscle"in > your system....and the type of sound card (remember, the SBL series takes > most of the sound load of the cpu). It could be the built in sound card I'm using (P4 1600, GF2Ti, Avance AC '97 audio, 320megs, XP, Ferrari FF wheel), although others have reported the same thing. Someone from r.a.s posted this tip page for improving fps in N2002, and the had the same result on their system too. http://www.discountdescramblers.com/nascar.html > As far as the mirrors.....sitting at Atlanta pits....I'm getting 49 > FPS....it bumps to 54 FPS with the interior reflection removed...then upto > 68 FPS with the mirror removed entirely. I like the realism....so I leave > the mirrors on max....49 FPS is plenty of juice. Yep, mirror really kills the frame rate, but you can't race without it. > I'm still not really pleased with the D3D jaggies....even at 1600 res. > Trying to reduce them with a little FSAA or anistropic filtering....just > knocks the FPS down too far (below 30 FPS....which it seems to me to be > something of a minimum since it gets real choppy below that level). x2 FSAA has almost no effect on my fps suprisingly. Just a few frames. Forgot to mention that I'm only using D3D now. David G Fisher

I sat in Michael Waltrips car and could see the hood very easily as well... - David "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:H6ld8.112288$Pz4.520265@rwcrnsc53... > I sat in Labonte's car at Sears last year (during April testing)....Icould > see 70% of the hood just fine. The Papy FOV in N2002 is not even close to > correct. I suspect they do it like they do....because it narrows theamount

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> of "rendered" track to less than 1/4 of the screen....allowing for a lower > "minimum specs" computer listing...which sells "boxes." That's only a > guess. > > I was going to sit in Little E's seat too....but he wouldn't get out of > it....and I wasn't going to sit on his lap. ....lol..... > > Tom

On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:41:31 GMT, "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I sat in Michael Waltrips car and could see the hood very easily as well... > >- David Everybody has a different size and sitting position, so for everyone the view is different in real life.. would be nice to be able to set your own view.. Andre

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iL9d8.106771$Pz4.493911@rwcrnsc53... > 3. I like the new-look to the UI screens and the click sounds are verywell > done...IMHO. That alone has to be worth $69.99 CAD.

"Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:H6ld8.112288$Pz4.520265@rwcrnsc53... > I sat in Labonte's car at Sears last year (during April testing)....Icould > see 70% of the hood just fine. The Papy FOV in N2002 is not even close to > correct. I suspect they do it like they do....because it narrows theamount > of "rendered" track to less than 1/4 of the screen....allowing for a lower > "minimum specs" computer listing...which sells "boxes." That's only a > guess. Just as I thought. I said here a long time back that Nascar Heat's view is closer to the real thing and was told that because they sit so low that N4's is more realistic. They should start including adjustable cockpit view like some flight sims do.

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kNod8.59428$[email hidden]... > It could be the built in sound card I'm using (P4 1600, GF2Ti, Avance > AC '97 audio, AC '97 does not do 3D hardware acceleration and that means more cpu load.

Hi Tom, now that is a bit of a daring comment :-) I assume the actual vertical position of a drivers head depends on the drivers preference and how tall he is. The fact that in Labonte's car _you_ could see the hood doesn't mean _he_ could - or any of the other drivers. Unless they are as tall as you are or taller. I sincerely doubt all Nascar drivers prefer or use the same seat height, or rather, head position. Papy's seat position is as good as any other, unless someone proves that all Nascar driver seats have the same height, and all Nascar drivers are equally tall :-) Achim "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:H6ld8.112288$Pz4.520265@rwcrnsc53... > I sat in Labonte's car at Sears last year (during April testing)....Icould > see 70% of the hood just fine. The Papy FOV in N2002 is not even close to > correct. I suspect they do it like they do....because it narrows theamount > of "rendered" track to less than 1/4 of the screen....allowing for a lower > "minimum specs" computer listing...which sells "boxes." That's only a > guess.

Nice theory except I get a higher frame rate with the exterior views than I do with the cockpit view. The cockpit view is always going to be a compromise due to the size and aspect ratio of typical monitors. For example, NASCAR Heat appears to use a wider FOV than N4 or NR2002, which might sound good except I find it harder to see my braking and turn in points coming up, because distant objects shrink in size so rapidly. F1CS2K had a relatively narrow and somewhat more realistic FOV, which only made it harder to see the apex. Move the view up too high and the roofline starts to interfere with the view of the road, too low and you lose sight of the road going over hills. The NR2002 FOV is a reasonable compromise, but I admit I would like the eye point to be just a tad higher. "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:H6ld8.112288$Pz4.520265@rwcrnsc53... > I sat in Labonte's car at Sears last year (during April testing)....Icould > see 70% of the hood just fine. The Papy FOV in N2002 is not evenclose to > correct. I suspect they do it like they do....because it narrows theamount > of "rendered" track to less than 1/4 of the screen....allowing for alower > "minimum specs" computer listing...which sells "boxes." That's only a > guess. > > I was going to sit in Little E's seat too....but he wouldn't get outof

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> it....and I wasn't going to sit on his lap. ....lol..... > > Tom > > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:N6kd8.4197$[email hidden]... > > > > "SimRacer" > > > > This should show up soon Tom, I used the translucent (sp?) info

boxes in > > N4 > > > and really liked them. I would like to see Papy move away from the > > > "Earnhardt" seat position though, I think it is too low in the car > (can't > > > see any hood until a wreck) and IMHO is too far to the center.Almost > like > > a > > > lowered "tv in-car cam" view really. > > Check out the pre-race interviews when they talk to some of thedrivers > > who are already strapped in....You will notice their chins BARELYclear > the > > door...I don't think anybody 'cept may 6'4" Buddy Baker could seethe hood

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> > sitting in one of those... > > dave henrie > > > > > > > > >

Which brings up a good point - if a driver can have his seat height adjusted to fit his preference, why can't we? "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a55shf$4qtl2$[email hidden]... > Hi Tom, > > now that is a bit of a daring comment :-) > > I assume the actual vertical position of a drivers head depends on the > drivers preference and how tall he is. The fact that in Labonte's car_you_ > could see the hood doesn't mean _he_ could - or any of the otherdrivers. > Unless they are as tall as you are or taller. I sincerely doubt allNascar > drivers prefer or use the same seat height, or rather, head position. > > Papy's seat position is as good as any other, unless someone provesthat all > Nascar driver seats have the same height, and all Nascar drivers areequally

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> tall :-) > > Achim > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:H6ld8.112288$Pz4.520265@rwcrnsc53... > > I sat in Labonte's car at Sears last year (during April

testing)....I > could > > see 70% of the hood just fine. The Papy FOV in N2002 is not evenclose to > > correct. I suspect they do it like they do....because it narrowsthe > amount > > of "rendered" track to less than 1/4 of the screen....allowing for alower > > "minimum specs" computer listing...which sells "boxes." That's onlya > > guess. > > >

indeed :-) Achim "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a56lgg$572s4$[email hidden]...

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> Which brings up a good point - if a driver can have his seat height > adjusted to fit his preference, why can't we? > > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a55shf$4qtl2$[email hidden]... > > Hi Tom, > > > > now that is a bit of a daring comment :-) > > > > I assume the actual vertical position of a drivers head depends on the > > drivers preference and how tall he is. The fact that in Labonte's car > _you_ > > could see the hood doesn't mean _he_ could - or any of the other > drivers. > > Unless they are as tall as you are or taller. I sincerely doubt all > Nascar > > drivers prefer or use the same seat height, or rather, head position. > > > > Papy's seat position is as good as any other, unless someone proves > that all > > Nascar driver seats have the same height, and all Nascar drivers are > equally > > tall :-) > > > > Achim > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:H6ld8.112288$Pz4.520265@rwcrnsc53... > > > I sat in Labonte's car at Sears last year (during April > testing)....I > > could > > > see 70% of the hood just fine. The Papy FOV in N2002 is not even > close to > > > correct. I suspect they do it like they do....because it narrows > the > > amount > > > of "rendered" track to less than 1/4 of the screen....allowing for a > lower > > > "minimum specs" computer listing...which sells "boxes." That's only > a > > > guess. > > > > > > >

>"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote > Which brings up a good point - if a driver can have his seat height > adjusted to fit his preference, why can't we? Because the virtual cockpit isn't really sitting there inside the game engine. Well it is, but at the same time it isn't. Notice that nobody ever enhanced the 3d modelling of the cockpit in N4, after a full year yet we had full of stuff for previous sims, or GPL. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> Which brings up a good point - if a driver can have his seat height > adjusted to fit his preference, why can't we? Because the virtual***pit isn't really sitting there inside the game engine. Well it is, but at the same time it isn't. Notice that nobody ever enhanced the 3d modelling of the***pit in N4, after a full year yet we had full of stuff for previous sims, or GPL. -- -- Fran?ois Mnard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > Yep, mirror really kills the frame rate, but you can't race without it. It's a shame they are not really scalable. Just look at GPL and the # of items you can take out of the mirrors. I could easily get 4-5 fps just by taking out stuff in the mirror I don't care about to render. Why do they force us to render the grass or asphalt texture in the mirror? It makes no sense. And even more (I whined a lot about this in N4), you can only see your own smoke if you toggle the mirror a second time, so that it renders everything. It makes no sense, it's sometimes difficult when you hear yourself screeching the tyres to know if you smoke them or not. It's very important on road courses. I guess they won't fix it, like the 100 other things that aren't fixed (ex: can't tweak graphics in the replay theatre, etc...) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

What I was trying to say was that Papy should have built in a way for us to adjust it over a limited range, a range that would match what a real driver would use. By allowing adjustment people would be able to find a view that they liked, but by limiting it to a realistic range it would still be fair and realistic. It does seem odd though that I was able to find replacements for all of the other camera views in N4 except the cockpit view. I guess that's what you are referring to, it apparently isn't done the same way as the other views. "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GiGd8.26913$[email hidden]... > > > Because the virtual cockpit isn't really sitting there inside the game > engine. Well it is, but at the same time it isn't. Notice thatnobody ever > enhanced the 3d modelling of the cockpit in N4, after a full year yetwe had > full of stuff for previous sims, or GPL. > > > >

Considering the cockpit view is a bmp with sections that allow the real time views through certain sections that would be kind of tough don't you think? Did you ever try modifying a cockpit based on the any of the nascar sims to use it for a mod like tptcc for N3? -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash Haqsau <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a58gbv$5d26p$[email hidden]... > What I was trying to say was that Papy should have built in a way for us > to adjust it over a limited range, a range that would match what a real > driver would use. By allowing adjustment people would be able to find a > view that they liked, but by limiting it to a realistic range it would > still be fair and realistic. > > It does seem odd though that I was able to find replacements for all of > the other camera views in N4 except the cockpit view. I guess that's > what you are referring to, it apparently isn't done the same way as the > other views. > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:GiGd8.26913$[email hidden]... > > > > > > Because the virtual cockpit isn't really sitting there inside the game > > engine. Well it is, but at the same time it isn't. Notice that > nobody ever > > enhanced the 3d modelling of the cockpit in N4, after a full year yet > we had > > full of stuff for previous sims, or GPL. > > > > > > > > >

The cockpit view is a 3d model as far as I can tell. I'm talking about NR2002 here, not SCGT. ;o) "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:i0Ud8.3020$[email hidden]... > Considering the cockpit view is a bmp with sections that allow thereal time views through certain > sections that would be kind of tough don't you think? Did you evertry modifying a cockpit based on

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> the any of the nascar sims to use it for a mod like tptcc for N3? > > -- > Biz > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular

structures,....and > the....." - Ash > > > Haqsau <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:a58gbv$5d26p$[email hidden]... > > What I was trying to say was that Papy should have built in a wayfor us > > to adjust it over a limited range, a range that would match what areal > > driver would use. By allowing adjustment people would be able tofind a > > view that they liked, but by limiting it to a realistic range itwould > > still be fair and realistic. > > > > It does seem odd though that I was able to find replacements for allof > > the other camera views in N4 except the cockpit view. I guessthat's > > what you are referring to, it apparently isn't done the same way asthe

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> > other views. > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:GiGd8.26913$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > Because the virtual cockpit isn't really sitting there inside the

game > > > engine. Well it is, but at the same time it isn't. Notice that > > nobody ever > > > enhanced the 3d modelling of the cockpit in N4, after a full yearyet

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> > we had > > > full of stuff for previous sims, or GPL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Maybe its been changed since N3 but I didn't think so....my bad if it has been. -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash Haqsau <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a592ka$5j7sc$[email hidden]... > The cockpit view is a 3d model as far as I can tell. I'm talking about > NR2002 here, not SCGT. ;o) > > "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:i0Ud8.3020$[email hidden]... > > Considering the cockpit view is a bmp with sections that allow the > real time views through certain > > sections that would be kind of tough don't you think? Did you ever > try modifying a cockpit based on > > the any of the nascar sims to use it for a mod like tptcc for N3? > > > > -- > > Biz > > > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular > structures,....and > > the....." - Ash > > > > > > Haqsau <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a58gbv$5d26p$[email hidden]... > > > What I was trying to say was that Papy should have built in a way > for us > > > to adjust it over a limited range, a range that would match what a > real > > > driver would use. By allowing adjustment people would be able to > find a > > > view that they liked, but by limiting it to a realistic range it > would > > > still be fair and realistic. > > > > > > It does seem odd though that I was able to find replacements for all > of > > > the other camera views in N4 except the cockpit view. I guess > that's > > > what you are referring to, it apparently isn't done the same way as > the > > > other views. > > > > > > "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:GiGd8.26913$[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > Because the virtual cockpit isn't really sitting there inside the > game > > > > engine. Well it is, but at the same time it isn't. Notice that > > > nobody ever > > > > enhanced the 3d modelling of the cockpit in N4, after a full year > yet > > > we had > > > > full of stuff for previous sims, or GPL. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:IfXd8.9736$[email hidden]... > Maybe its been changed since N3 but I didn't think so....my bad if it hasbeen. > -- > Biz It's been 3D since N4.

Agreed. TP "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 12:41:31 GMT, "David L. Cook" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > > >I sat in Michael Waltrips car and could see the hood very easily aswell...

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> > > >- David > > Everybody has a different size and sitting position, so for everyone > the view is different in real life.. would be nice to be able to set > your own view.. > > Andre

Joachim.... Actually....it wasn't a daring statement at all. Your seat position...head position....is not altered dramatically by your height...and even a difference of five or six inches in height...only translates to seeing more or less, about a quarter inch of the hood area....its not dramatic. In other words....if I sat in Labonte's car and slouched down six inches....I'd lose about a quarter inch of the hood.....and if I stretched up....I'd gain about a quarter inch view of the hood.......as seen from just sitting at my normal head height. The "FOV" out of the real cars tend to be affected more by the distance back from the dash board....than the height of the seat which is extremely limited in all NASCAR race cars....there's just not that much room for difference in head height. I will bet you (and this is only speculation)....that if you measured every single WC driver's head height....from the side view of the car...and measured off the ground.....it wouldn't vary by more than a couple three inches at most (assuming all cars at the same ride height....of course). The taller drivers have their seats mounted near the floor pan....the shorter drivers have them elevated more off the floor pan than the tall drivers. You see what I mean? Tom "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a55shf$4qtl2$[email hidden]... > Hi Tom, > > now that is a bit of a daring comment :-) > > I assume the actual vertical position of a drivers head depends on the > drivers preference and how tall he is. The fact that in Labonte's car_you_ > could see the hood doesn't mean _he_ could - or any of the other drivers. > Unless they are as tall as you are or taller. I sincerely doubt all Nascar > drivers prefer or use the same seat height, or rather, head position. > > Papy's seat position is as good as any other, unless someone proves thatall > Nascar driver seats have the same height, and all Nascar drivers areequally

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> tall :-) > > Achim > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:H6ld8.112288$Pz4.520265@rwcrnsc53... > > I sat in Labonte's car at Sears last year (during April testing)....I > could > > see 70% of the hood just fine. The Papy FOV in N2002 is not even close

to > > correct. I suspect they do it like they do....because it narrows the > amount > > of "rendered" track to less than 1/4 of the screen....allowing for alower > > "minimum specs" computer listing...which sells "boxes." That's only a > > guess. > > >

I think for some reason...this maybe an old throw-back to the NROS days when Papy considered changing the driving FOV something akin to "cheating." Not totally sure.....but it very well could be. Tom "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a56lgg$572s4$[email hidden]...

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> Which brings up a good point - if a driver can have his seat height > adjusted to fit his preference, why can't we? > > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a55shf$4qtl2$[email hidden]... > > Hi Tom, > > > > now that is a bit of a daring comment :-) > > > > I assume the actual vertical position of a drivers head depends on the > > drivers preference and how tall he is. The fact that in Labonte's car > _you_ > > could see the hood doesn't mean _he_ could - or any of the other > drivers. > > Unless they are as tall as you are or taller. I sincerely doubt all > Nascar > > drivers prefer or use the same seat height, or rather, head position. > > > > Papy's seat position is as good as any other, unless someone proves > that all > > Nascar driver seats have the same height, and all Nascar drivers are > equally > > tall :-) > > > > Achim > > > > > > > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:H6ld8.112288$Pz4.520265@rwcrnsc53... > > > I sat in Labonte's car at Sears last year (during April > testing)....I > > could > > > see 70% of the hood just fine. The Papy FOV in N2002 is not even > close to > > > correct. I suspect they do it like they do....because it narrows > the > > amount > > > of "rendered" track to less than 1/4 of the screen....allowing for a > lower > > > "minimum specs" computer listing...which sells "boxes." That's only > a > > > guess. > > > > > > >

Francois... Are you saying that the "cockpit" is really kind of a "fixed" reference point...and the "game engine or physics engine" moves on the screen represented by the windshield opening........while the cockpit is actually static (except the zoom up or down of the cockpit under braking/accelerating)? Just wanting to make sure I understand you. Tom "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GiGd8.26913$[email hidden]...

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> >"Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Which brings up a good point - if a driver can have his seat height > > adjusted to fit his preference, why can't we? > > > Because the virtual cockpit isn't really sitting there inside the game > engine. Well it is, but at the same time it isn't. Notice that nobody

ever > enhanced the 3d modelling of the cockpit in N4, after a full year yet wehad

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> full of stuff for previous sims, or GPL. > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

Tom Pabst wrote:

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> > Francois... > > Are you saying that the "cockpit" is really kind of a "fixed" reference > point...and the "game engine or physics engine" moves on the screen > represented by the windshield opening........while the cockpit is actually > static (except the zoom up or down of the cockpit under > braking/accelerating)? Just wanting to make sure I understand you.

Nobody really understands Frank, he lives in a different world...:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

David... I agree...x2 FSAA has only a little FPS hit on my system too. But, it also does virtually nothing for the improvement of the jaggies...or over-all picture quality. Maybe this will change with future drivers...or better Nvidia 3D graphics cards? TP "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kNod8.59428$[email hidden]... > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:iL9d8.106771$Pz4.493911@rwcrnsc53... > > I'm not seeing any FPS change with the # of sounds set from a low number > > (10) to a high (max) either. But, I'm suspicious that this would showup > as > > a FPS hit depending on the cpu load during a race, type and cpu "muscle" > in > > your system....and the type of sound card (remember, the SBL seriestakes > > most of the sound load of the cpu). > > It could be the built in sound card I'm using (P4 1600, GF2Ti, Avance > AC '97 audio, 320megs, XP, Ferrari FF wheel), although others havereported > the same thing. Someone from r.a.s posted this tip page for improving fpsin

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> N2002, and the had the same result on their system too. > http://www.discountdescramblers.com/nascar.html > > > As far as the mirrors.....sitting at Atlanta pits....I'm getting 49 > > FPS....it bumps to 54 FPS with the interior reflection removed...then up > to > > 68 FPS with the mirror removed entirely. I like the realism....so I

leave

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> > the mirrors on max....49 FPS is plenty of juice. > > Yep, mirror really kills the frame rate, but you can't race without it. > > > I'm still not really pleased with the D3D jaggies....even at 1600 res. > > Trying to reduce them with a little FSAA or anistropic filtering....just > > knocks the FPS down too far (below 30 FPS....which it seems to me to be > > something of a minimum since it gets real choppy below that level). > > x2 FSAA has almost no effect on my fps suprisingly. Just a few frames. > Forgot to mention that I'm only using D3D now. > > David G Fisher > > >

That's frustrating stuff.....but the first "perfect" racing sim will be out in about 200 years....I can't wait that long. Tom "ymenard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:MlGd8.26914$[email hidden]...

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> >"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > Yep, mirror really kills the frame rate, but you can't race without it. > > > It's a shame they are not really scalable. Just look at GPL and the # of > items you can take out of the mirrors. I could easily get 4-5 fps just by > taking out stuff in the mirror I don't care about to render. Why do they > force us to render the grass or asphalt texture in the mirror? It makes no > sense. And even more (I whined a lot about this in N4), you can only see > your own smoke if you toggle the mirror a second time, so that it renders > everything. It makes no sense, it's sometimes difficult when you hear > yourself screeching the tyres to know if you smoke them or not. It's very > important on road courses. > > I guess they won't fix it, like the 100 other things that aren't fixed

(ex:

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> can't tweak graphics in the replay theatre, etc...) > > > > > > > > > -- > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> > -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ > -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez > Corporation - helping America into the New World... > > >

>"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote > Nobody really understands Frank, he lives in a different world...:-) LOL well "duh" ;) What I mean is, somehow I speculate the 3d cockpit is not in the "real world" that is the game engine of NR2002 or N4 or GPL or whatever Papy simulation. It is superimposed over, but it's still modelled properly. It was obviously pasted over before when it was a simple 2d cockpit, but even in 3d now it is done this way. It doesn't change the nature of the cockpit, as all the feedback from your car inside the game engine is transferred to the cockpit's movement like if it was really in that world. Same for the lighting effects. Just check out a very big crash in slow-motion, you will see the effect go a little too far and you might even see "over" the cockpit when unrealistic loads are applied during impact. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...