N2002 - AI problems

Yesterday I managed to survive a 50-lap race against the AI at the Coca Cola track (all my other fruitless attempts were allways ended by my own mistakes btw :) A couple of things I noticed about the AI: - They race damn good. They're agressive, if I made a small mistake in a corner I immediately got passed by the AI, and they defend well. - After 10 laps there was a yellow flag caused by the AI. My tires were still ok, I was leading, did not want to lose my position so I did not pit. All the AI did though, so my decision was bad, when the green flag came I was in the lead but had not enough fuel to finish the race and all the AI had fresh tires. But after a lap or 10 there was a yellow flag again. I pitted, and to my surprise so did all the AI again. They had enough fuel to finish the race, it would have been much more clever from them to stay on the track, since now I still stayed in the lead. Bad move I think.. have to test more but I don't think the AI is really good in calculating when (not) to pit considering the circumstances. - After the 2nd yellow, there were a couple of cars in front of me who were 1 lap down. I passed them easily, they were slow, but the rest of the pack stayed behind them. After 50 laps I won with nr.2 still being stuck behind the backmarkers, I had about 15 seconds margin on nr.2 after the finish. Weird, since the AI has no problems in passing me as soon as I slow down the slightest bit. - While driving under yellow, I got rammed from behind by the AI at high speed. The AI did not slow down while I was driving behind the pacecar. These weak points from the AI don't seem too hard to fix imho.. hope this will be issued in a patch. Andre

I have noticed similar behavior in SS races. I came out of the pits at Daytona and just as I was getting into Turn 3, a 3 or 4 car draft was coming up from behind. Rather than go high and blow by me, they slowed down and fell in behind. This happened a number of times over the course of several practice sessions. Goofy, for sure. Maybe they just don't like to go high. It would be interesting to see what they would do if the human driver leaves the bottom line open in this situation. Gerald [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > After the 2nd yellow, there were a couple of cars in front of me who > were 1 lap down. I passed them easily, they were slow, but the rest of > the pack stayed behind them. After 50 laps I won with nr.2 still being > stuck behind the backmarkers, I had about 15 seconds margin on nr.2 > after the finish.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes: >- While driving under yellow, I got rammed from behind by the AI at >high speed. The AI did not slow down while I was driving behind the >pacecar. Sounds like Bill Eliott's Nascar Racing...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

> Sounds like Bill Eliott's Nascar Racing...<g> I remember that game too! Once I forgot to change my setup from Talladega when I went to Sears Point in a championship season and I think I still won! :) John

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> Yesterday I managed to survive a 50-lap race against the AI at the > Coca Cola track (all my other fruitless attempts were allways ended by > my own mistakes btw :) > > A couple of things I noticed about the AI: > > - They race damn good. They're agressive, if I made a small mistake in > a corner I immediately got passed by the AI, and they defend well. > > - After 10 laps there was a yellow flag caused by the AI. > My tires were still ok, I was leading, did not want to lose my > position so I did not pit. All the AI did though, so my decision was > bad, when the green flag came I was in the lead but had not enough > fuel to finish the race and all the AI had fresh tires. > > But after a lap or 10 there was a yellow flag again. I pitted, and to > my surprise so did all the AI again. They had enough fuel to finish > the race, it would have been much more clever from them to stay on the > track, since now I still stayed in the lead. Bad move I think.. have > to test more but I don't think the AI is really good in calculating > when (not) to pit considering the circumstances. > > - After the 2nd yellow, there were a couple of cars in front of me who > were 1 lap down. I passed them easily, they were slow, but the rest of > the pack stayed behind them. After 50 laps I won with nr.2 still being > stuck behind the backmarkers, I had about 15 seconds margin on nr.2 > after the finish. > Weird, since the AI has no problems in passing me as soon as I slow > down the slightest bit. > > - While driving under yellow, I got rammed from behind by the AI at > high speed. The AI did not slow down while I was driving behind the > pacecar. > > These weak points from the AI don't seem too hard to fix imho.. hope > this will be issued in a patch. > > Andre

Considering that the AI has been doing these same bonehead moves ever since Nascar Racing ONE, I wouldn't hold my breath... John DiFool

Andre, Maybe the AI is modeled after M Waltrip? Hell, even Benny Parsons on TV will GUESS wrong with low# of laps to go, "and you wont see any of the leaders pit" 1/2 lap later, "Well!! Michael Waltrip is pitting!?! out of second place, and he's the only one !" (you can hear the "WTF" in his voice too... LOL). So clever these papy guys ya know ;) "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Yesterday I managed to survive a 50-lap race against the AI at the > Coca Cola track (all my other fruitless attempts were allways ended by > my own mistakes btw :) > > A couple of things I noticed about the AI: > > - They race damn good. They're agressive, if I made a small mistake in > a corner I immediately got passed by the AI, and they defend well. > > - After 10 laps there was a yellow flag caused by the AI. > My tires were still ok, I was leading, did not want to lose my > position so I did not pit. All the AI did though, so my decision was > bad, when the green flag came I was in the lead but had not enough > fuel to finish the race and all the AI had fresh tires. > > But after a lap or 10 there was a yellow flag again. I pitted, and to > my surprise so did all the AI again. They had enough fuel to finish > the race, it would have been much more clever from them to stay on the > track, since now I still stayed in the lead. Bad move I think.. have > to test more but I don't think the AI is really good in calculating > when (not) to pit considering the circumstances. > > - After the 2nd yellow, there were a couple of cars in front of me who > were 1 lap down. I passed them easily, they were slow, but the rest of > the pack stayed behind them. After 50 laps I won with nr.2 still being > stuck behind the backmarkers, I had about 15 seconds margin on nr.2 > after the finish. > Weird, since the AI has no problems in passing me as soon as I slow > down the slightest bit. > > - While driving under yellow, I got rammed from behind by the AI at > high speed. The AI did not slow down while I was driving behind the > pacecar. > > These weak points from the AI don't seem too hard to fix imho.. hope > this will be issued in a patch. > > Andre >

On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:51:36 -0600, "Plowboy" <Plowboy'[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Andre, > >Maybe the AI is modeled after M Waltrip? Hell, even Benny Parsons on TV >will GUESS wrong with low# of laps to go, "and you wont see any of the >leaders pit" 1/2 lap later, "Well!! Michael Waltrip is pitting!?! out of >second place, and he's the only one !" (you can hear the "WTF" in his voice >too... LOL). > >So clever these papy guys ya know ;)

Hehe, that Parsons guy sounds like Murray 'no way he will pass him - oh he passed him - oh no he didn't' Walker :) Well another 50 lap race at Coca Cola yesterday. The race that I told you about was set to 80% AI strength (stop laughing) and yesterday I set the strength to 90% (stop it I said). Qualified 22nd, had a fantastic race with this time a perfectly behaving AI, and after a wrecknerving race with many position changes and 5 yellows (caused by.. err.. me) I finished 22nd (STOP LAUGHING!!) Can't wait to get home from work for my next race :) Andre

In article <[email hidden]>, John DiFool <[email hidden]> writes: > Considering that the AI has been doing these same bonehead moves >ever since Nascar Racing ONE, I wouldn't hold my breath... > I hadn't had problems with the AI hitting me under yellow, or getting stuck behind a backmarker, but I *have* seen the stupid pit strategy... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

[email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > But after a lap or 10 there was a yellow flag again. I pitted, and to > my surprise so did all the AI again. They had enough fuel to finish > the race, it would have been much more clever from them to stay on the > track, since now I still stayed in the lead. Bad move I think.. have > to test more but I don't think the AI is really good in calculating > when (not) to pit considering the circumstances. I dunno. I think I would have pitted too. My general rule of thumb on yellow flags is 1. is there more than 10% of the race left 2. are my tires worn at all (i.e. anything but 100% green). If both of these are 'yes' I'll pit, because unless it's really close to the end of a race I'd rather be a few tenths of a second faster than get track position I may lose quickly if everyone behind me pitted. Even after 10 laps at most tracks, your tires are likely worn enough that a pitstop is worthwhile. I see this all the time in league races, guys staying out with slightly worn tires and then falling back quickly on the restart just because they're a tenth or two off because of tires, and this gets amplified during long green flag runs since your tires have 10 more laps on them than anyone else. Now at Daytona, or Tally, I'm more inclined to take 2 tires since the speed drop-off due to tire wear isn't an issue. I'm not sure about Coca Cola since I haven't run much there yet, but IIRC the car started feeling a bit out of control pretty early into a tire run.

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> - After the 2nd yellow, there were a couple of cars in front of me who > were 1 lap down. I passed them easily, they were slow, but the rest of > the pack stayed behind them. After 50 laps I won with nr.2 still being > stuck behind the backmarkers, I had about 15 seconds margin on nr.2 > after the finish. > Weird, since the AI has no problems in passing me as soon as I slow > down the slightest bit.

I hate that. I'm amazed Papy hasn't found a workaround for that yet, since every one of their sims has had that same problem. Which is why you can win a Grand Prix length race in GPL even if you're 5 seconds off the pace of the leaders just because they all bunch up behind the slower cars. > - While driving under yellow, I got rammed from behind by the AI at > high speed. The AI did not slow down while I was driving behind the > pacecar. Darn it. So far I haven't seen that, but it was a common AI bug in Nascar 4. I was really hoping they'd fixed that, although it does seem somewhat less common, at least on the tracks I race Jason

I was going to ask you what AI strength you were using. I didn't bother though because I thought the problems you mentioned wouldn't be effected by a higher setting except for the AI staying behind the slower cars. David G Fisher "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Well another 50 lap race at Coca Cola yesterday. > The race that I told you about was set to 80% AI strength (stop > laughing) and yesterday I set the strength to 90% (stop it I said). > > Qualified 22nd, had a fantastic race with this time a perfectly > behaving AI, and after a wrecknerving race with many position changes > and 5 yellows (caused by.. err.. me) I finished 22nd (STOP LAUGHING!!) > > Can't wait to get home from work for my next race :) > > Andre

On 26 Feb 2002 11:40:17 -0800, [email hidden] (jason moyer) wrote: >Darn it. So far I haven't seen that, but it was a common AI bug in >Nascar 4. I was really hoping they'd fixed that, although it does >seem somewhat less common, at least on the tracks I race So far it happened only once now in about 10 hours of racing, so indeed it doesn't seem to happen very oft. But frustrating though when it happens :-/ Yesterday I got hit by the AI again. 21th lap at Coca Cola, I was third (AI at 90%, I'm improving :)) and while entering a corner the AI touched me from behind. Within 0.0001 second I was driving headon into the wall.. with damage at full realistic setting, not much of my car was left after that :-/ It seems like an error that could happen in real life though, not a complaint about the AI. Andre

On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 16:11:44 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote:

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>On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 09:51:36 -0600, "Plowboy" ><Plowboy'[email hidden]> wrote: > >>Andre, >> >>Maybe the AI is modeled after M Waltrip? Hell, even Benny Parsons on TV >>will GUESS wrong with low# of laps to go, "and you wont see any of the >>leaders pit" 1/2 lap later, "Well!! Michael Waltrip is pitting!?! out of >>second place, and he's the only one !" (you can hear the "WTF" in his voice >>too... LOL). >> >>So clever these papy guys ya know ;) > >Hehe, that Parsons guy sounds like Murray 'no way he will pass him - >oh he passed him - oh no he didn't' Walker :) > >Well another 50 lap race at Coca Cola yesterday. >The race that I told you about was set to 80% AI strength (stop >laughing) and yesterday I set the strength to 90% (stop it I said). > >Qualified 22nd, had a fantastic race with this time a perfectly >behaving AI, and after a wrecknerving race with many position changes >and 5 yellows (caused by.. err.. me) I finished 22nd (STOP LAUGHING!!)

He....hehe.....hehehe....ha.....haha....HAHA......WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! Redneck! Remco

On 25 Feb 2002 06:47:32 -0800, [email hidden] (Gerald Moore) wrote:

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>I have noticed similar behavior in SS races. I came out of the pits >at Daytona and just as I was getting into Turn 3, a 3 or 4 car draft >was coming up from behind. Rather than go high and blow by me, they >slowed down and fell in behind. This happened a number of times over >the course of several practice sessions. Goofy, for sure. Maybe they >just don't like to go high. It would be interesting to see what they >would do if the human driver leaves the bottom line open in this >situation. > >Gerald

I can tell you exactly what they'll do when you leave the bottom open: blow right by you as they should. I did this coming out of the pits for a unscheduled stop (still couldn't get the car up to speed, eventually I retired from the race - sort of black flagged myself for traveling at Kirk Shelmerdine like speeds) and figured I'd get killed staying in the low groove so I went high and watched as all the pretty cars went by...