A good touring car game? (DTM)

Hello: Since getting Speedvision, I have enjoyed watching the DTM Touring series. Sorry if that's not the actual name; it's the one that has the Mercedes CLK DTM Touring car. Are there any good sims out there for this type of racing? I've looked at STCC2 and TOCA2. Any others? Thanks, - Tom N.

Nascar Heat....a mod for that title has 1995 DTM cars Deutch Touring Masters(I think is the official name) and they have pretty good physicks....don't feel like a patched Winston Cup car. Thomas Heineman is working on a version 2 update AND there are BTCC skins as well as 2001 DTM skins that will use the 95 mod but update the cars to last years competitors. Other than that,,,you'll have to wait for the less than sim sounding Touring car sim by Codemasters...Pro Race Driver. dave henrie "Thomas C Norwood" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a5ht75$t2u$[email hidden]...

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> Hello: > > Since getting Speedvision, I have enjoyed watching the DTM Touring series. > > Sorry if that's not the actual name; it's the one that has the Mercedes > CLK DTM Touring car. > > Are there any good sims out there for this type of racing? I've looked at > STCC2 and TOCA2. Any others? > > Thanks, > > - Tom N.

On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 06:09:41 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Thomas C Norwood) wrote:

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>Hello: > >Since getting Speedvision, I have enjoyed watching the DTM Touring series. > >Sorry if that's not the actual name; it's the one that has the Mercedes >CLK DTM Touring car. > >Are there any good sims out there for this type of racing? I've looked at >STCC2 and TOCA2. Any others? > >Thanks, > > - Tom N.

In June (?) a new Toca sim will be released from Codemasters. So far the list of all cars and tracks is very impressive, and the screenshots are even more impressive. Info and screenshots at www.simracingnews.com Andre

Given that Jarrett and Labonte Racing on the ancient PS One is the predecessor to Pro Race Driver and had solid physics, excellent AI, and a good damage model (all on a measly PS One), I would respectfully disagree with your "less than sim sounding" comment. If Pro Race Driver just delivers J&L Racing with updated graphics it would be a very good sim and I'd be pleased. The AI was REALLY good. That alone puts it well ahead of most sims. If they actually improve the physics, damage model and throw in kick ass force feedback and stellar graphics then this will be on my hard drive for years to come. BTW, how can they NOT deliver more with a much bigger budget and at least 20x the processing power on a modern PC or PS2? Oops, did I just jinx the game by saying that ? ;0) -- Joe Marques "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Wa%e8.8991$[email hidden]... > Nascar Heat....a mod for that title has 1995 DTM cars Deutch Touring > Masters(I think is the official name) and they have pretty good > physicks....don't feel like a patched Winston Cup car. Thomas Heineman is > working on a version 2 update AND there are BTCC skins as well as 2001 DTM > skins that will use the 95 mod but update the cars to last years > competitors. > Other than that,,,you'll have to wait for the less than sim sounding > Touring car sim by Codemasters...Pro Race Driver. > dave henrie

"Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:w36f8.61718$[email hidden]...

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> Given that Jarrett and Labonte Racing on the ancient PS One is the > predecessor to Pro Race Driver and had solid physics, excellent AI, and a > good damage model (all on a measly PS One), I would respectfully disagree > with your "less than sim sounding" comment. > > If Pro Race Driver just delivers J&L Racing with updated graphics it would > be a very good sim and I'd be pleased. The AI was REALLY good. That

alone > puts it well ahead of most sims. If they actually improve the physics, > damage model and throw in kick ass force feedback and stellar graphicsthen

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> this will be on my hard drive for years to come. > > BTW, how can they NOT deliver more with a much bigger budget and at least > 20x the processing power on a modern PC or PS2? Oops, did I just jinx the > game by saying that ? ;0) > -- > Joe Marques

You are right, J&L did have a good code base. It was called World Touring cars in other parts of the world but for some reason they tried to sell it by association with two of the bigger family names in Nascar..even tho it was NOT a Nascar title and the two drivers in the title are 2nd or 3rd generation kids just starting out...oh well... but .. my 'less' sim comment was based on another thread I had just read before this one...here is the snippet... Here's a snip taken from www.gamespot.com "The game is aimed at the general gamer rather than the hard-core racing sim enthusiast, and while the complete version will have a number of car set-up options, the developer admits that's not the main focus of the game." 38 tracks of pure arcade fun? so while it may very well be a great title, they are veering away from hardcore it would appear. dave henrie

Hi Dave, I saw that thread after my post here. ;0) I'm disappointed to hear their "appealing to the masses" approach but with GT3's financial success who can blame them, it's just good business. I still have faith it will be a very good title, however, it'll suck if it's soooo close to the "ultimate" sports car sim if they just put in a few features. While I know it's not worth spending the extra $ to make it hardcore to satisfy roughly 10% of the market, I still want them to do it for the love of the sim! ;0) WSC, where are you? <g> -- Joe Marques "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FS6f8.12979$Dv1.47577@rwcrnsc53... > You are right, J&L did have a good code base. It was called World Touring > cars in other parts of the world but for some reason they tried to sell it > by association with two of the bigger family names in Nascar..even tho it > was NOT a Nascar title and the two drivers in the title are 2nd or 3rd > generation kids just starting out...oh well... > but .. > my 'less' sim comment was based on another thread I had just read before > this one...here is the snippet... > > Here's a snip taken from www.gamespot.com > > "The game is aimed at the general gamer rather than the hard-core racing > sim enthusiast, and while the complete version will have a number of car > set-up options, the developer admits that's not the main focus of the > game." > > 38 tracks of pure arcade fun? > > > so while it may very well be a great title, they are veering away from > hardcore it would appear. > dave henrie > >

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:FS6f8.12979$Dv1.47577@rwcrnsc53...

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> "The game is aimed at the general gamer rather than the hard-core racing > sim enthusiast, and while the complete version will have a number of car > set-up options, the developer admits that's not the main focus of the > game." > > 38 tracks of pure arcade fun? > > > so while it may very well be a great title, they are veering away from > hardcore it would appear. > dave henrie

I don't see how they can be veering away from the hardcore seeing as they have never produced a Touring Car hardcore game, TOCA, TOCA2 and WTC were all arcade type games, the car options were limited and the gameplay had a lot of forgiveness... try throwing a real touring car around the first corner at Donnington at the same speeds you can in the game. Look at the Colin McRae Rally games... both excellent... and I still play CM2.. although not as much as I used to since getting Civ III and F1 2001/GT2 Mod and RTCW. I only played WTC on the PS1 (Was it even released on the PC?) and if they make the game as enjoyable as that I'll be happy.... What I really want is a game that recreates Laguna Seca accurately.. (Pleaes don't suggest a Nascar type game, as I really don't like them.. personal preference... I find them very boring and not a patch on the UK/European motorsports, and I simply don't want to play a game of a sport that bores me.... if I did, I'd buy a cricket game :o] ) Heckler

On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 14:03:16 -0000, "Heckler ����" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>game that recreates Laguna Seca accurately.. (Pleaes don't suggest a Nascar >type game, as I really don't like them.. personal preference... I find them >very boring and not a patch on the UK/European motorsports, and I simply >don't want to play a game of a sport that bores me.... if I did, I'd buy a >cricket game :o] ) > >Heckler

Hey if Fisher can enjoy Nascar, EVERYBODY can enjoy Nascar :) There is an ICR2 converted Seca for GPL, and if I remember correct there was also a Seca addon for F1 2000. Both quite crappy by the way. Andre

have you looked at SCGT? don't know much about DTM except that I have seen places to get DTM cars... **** "Here we are on a planet moving and spinning though space at 500 miles per second...and look...my beer stays right there in the glass! Ain't that just the neatest thing?" -- Bob 'Spaceman' Lee interviewed by Dick Schaap (quote approximate)

"Heckler ????" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<a5ld8b$8amoe$[email hidden]>... > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:FS6f8.12979$Dv1.47577@rwcrnsc53... <SNIP>

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> I only played WTC on the PS1 (Was it even released on the PC?) and if they > make the game as enjoyable as that I'll be happy.... What I really want is a > game that recreates Laguna Seca accurately.. (Pleaes don't suggest a Nascar > type game, as I really don't like them.. personal preference... I find them > very boring and not a patch on the UK/European motorsports, and I simply > don't want to play a game of a sport that bores me.... if I did, I'd buy a > cricket game :o] )

You REALLY need to try NASCAR Heat -- the add-on version of Laguna Seca is VERY nice, IMO. It's from CPR, I believe, which had fairly accurate tracks, IIRC. Yes, I know you don't like NASCAR sims, but with all the various mods, you never even have to bother with the NASCAR portion. Check out this link for some info on the various Heat mods (including the DTM mod): http://www.sim-editing.com/ Enjoy! -- JB

"jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Heckler ????" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<a5ld8b$8amoe$[email hidden]>... > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:FS6f8.12979$Dv1.47577@rwcrnsc53... > > <SNIP> > > > I only played WTC on the PS1 (Was it even released on the PC?) and ifthey > > make the game as enjoyable as that I'll be happy.... What I really wantis a > > game that recreates Laguna Seca accurately.. (Pleaes don't suggest aNascar > > type game, as I really don't like them.. personal preference... I findthem > > very boring and not a patch on the UK/European motorsports, and I simply > > don't want to play a game of a sport that bores me.... if I did, I'd buya

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> > cricket game :o] ) > > You REALLY need to try NASCAR Heat -- the add-on version of Laguna > Seca is VERY nice, IMO. It's from CPR, I believe, which had fairly > accurate tracks, IIRC. > > Yes, I know you don't like NASCAR sims, but with all the various mods, > you never even have to bother with the NASCAR portion. > > Check out this link for some info on the various Heat mods (including > the DTM mod): > > http://www.sim-editing.com/ > > Enjoy! > > -- JB

How is NASCAR Heat as a NASCAR game? How does it compare to N2002? Also, when you add tracks, are they available in the mods or only in the NASCAR game? Thanks, Steve

On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:43:16 GMT, "Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote: >How is NASCAR Heat as a NASCAR game? How does it compare to N2002? Also, >when you add tracks, are they available in the mods or only in the NASCAR >game? No yellow flags and a number of other bugs as far as I can remember. I found the physics of N4 quite on par with Heat, but N2002 beats it hands down. For the mods Heat is great though. Andre

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> On Wed, 27 Feb 2002 06:09:41 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden] (Thomas C > Norwood) wrote: > >>Hello: >> >>Since getting Speedvision, I have enjoyed watching the DTM Touring series. >> >>Sorry if that's not the actual name; it's the one that has the Mercedes >>CLK DTM Touring car. >> >>Are there any good sims out there for this type of racing? I've looked at >>STCC2 and TOCA2. Any others? >> >>Thanks, >> >> - Tom N. > > In June (?) a new Toca sim will be released from Codemasters. So far > the list of all cars and tracks is very impressive, and the > screenshots are even more impressive. > Info and screenshots at www.simracingnews.com > > Andre

I won't have anything to do with that game, it's sexist. They obviously think that a guy dosn't have the brains to run a racing team. KFG

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 15:43:16 GMT, "Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >How is NASCAR Heat as a NASCAR game? How does it compare to N2002? Also, > >when you add tracks, are they available in the mods or only in the NASCAR > >game? > > No yellow flags and a number of other bugs as far as I can remember. I > found the physics of N4 quite on par with Heat, but N2002 beats it > hands down. For the mods Heat is great though. > > Andre

Thanks for the info Andre. Are there mods for N4 or N2002 or are any being worked on? If not, is it due to the way the game is, meaning it's difficult to modify? I'm thinking of getting a NASCAR game and I don't know if I should go for N2002 or Heat. Since I'm not the biggest NASCAR fan, I would think Heat would be more to my liking since the mods would keep me busy when I get bored with the NASCAR game. Steve

On Fri, 01 Mar 2002 17:41:09 GMT, "Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Are there mods for N4 or N2002 or are any being worked on? If not, is it due >to the way the game is, meaning it's difficult to modify? I'm thinking of >getting a NASCAR game and I don't know if I should go for N2002 or Heat. >Since I'm not the biggest NASCAR fan, I would think Heat would be more to my >liking since the mods would keep me busy when I get bored with the NASCAR >game. > >Steve

Heat seems to be much more mod-friendly than N4 or 2002. A couple of converted roadtracks were released for N4 lately, but as far as I know that was very hard work to do so. Heat should be quite cheap now since it's getting a bit older, so I'd buy both. Heat for some fun with the mods, and N2002 for the best sim yet. Or buy F1 2001, the GT mod seems to be awesome. Or wait untill may when F1 2001 will be released :) Andre

"Steve" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<V2Pf8.21118

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> > Are there mods for N4 or N2002 or are any being worked on? If not, is it due > to the way the game is, meaning it's difficult to modify? I'm thinking of > getting a NASCAR game and I don't know if I should go for N2002 or Heat. > Since I'm not the biggest NASCAR fan, I would think Heat would be more to my > liking since the mods would keep me busy when I get bored with the NASCAR > game. > > Steve

The Papy sims are pretty locked-down -- you can add tracks, but there's no way to really edit the physics, so you're stuck with NASCAR physics no matter what. Heat is VERY open, and we can edit all the physics values -- we really did sweat the details on the tire models for the SoH mod and the upcoming Porsche Vintage Heat mod, for example, just to get the right "feel." In terms of value as a NASCAR sim, I am NOT a NASCAR fan myself, but I found NASCAR Heat to be VERY good in terms of pulling you into the "NASCAR experience." The "Beat the Heat" and "Race The Pro" modes put you into NASCAR-type situations, and you have to pass the tests in order to move on to the next challenge. Things like getting dropped right into the car at the end of the race, and then having to finish in the top 3 with only 10 laps to go (starting from 10th place). Even though I don't really like NASCAR, this portion provided me with some of the most enjoyable sim racing fun that I've ever had (much like the "Factory Driver" mode in NFSPU). Immersive, fun, and a really decent physics engine -- Heat is a good value, IMO (ESPECIALLY when you take into account the mods). -- JB

It's interesting to hear you say that, because some of the Heat mods I have tried have still felt like Cup cars to me. I'm not going to mention names, and I'm pretty sure these weren't ones that you were involved with, but honestly with some of the mods I feel like rather than driving a sports car I'm driving a lighter weight, more powerful Cup car, or rather than driving an open wheeler, I'm driving a much faster Cup car. Mostly this sensation comes from really vague steering response. Even turning up the steering lock doesn't seem to eliminate the vagueness. I suppose that could be a configuration problem too, but the other thing is that they all still feel like they have spool rear axles. Are there limitations to what you can change? Is it as editable as F1 2001, for example? "jbodin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > The Papy sims are pretty locked-down -- you can add tracks, but > there's no way to really edit the physics, so you're stuck with NASCAR > physics no matter what. > > Heat is VERY open, and we can edit all the physics values -- we really > did sweat the details on the tire models for the SoH mod and the > upcoming Porsche Vintage Heat mod, for example, just to get the right > "feel." > > In terms of value as a NASCAR sim, I am NOT a NASCAR fan myself, but I > found NASCAR Heat to be VERY good in terms of pulling you into the > "NASCAR experience." The "Beat the Heat" and "Race The Pro" modes put > you into NASCAR-type situations, and you have to pass the tests in > order to move on to the next challenge. Things like getting dropped > right into the car at the end of the race, and then having to finish > in the top 3 with only 10 laps to go (starting from 10th place). Even > though I don't really like NASCAR, this portion provided me with some > of the most enjoyable sim racing fun that I've ever had (much like the > "Factory Driver" mode in NFSPU). Immersive, fun, and a really decent > physics engine -- Heat is a good value, IMO (ESPECIALLY when you take > into account the mods). > > -- JB

The thing about Heat mods is they are subject to the interests of their creators,as well as their familiarity with modeling cars' physical properties. I hesitate to call it changing the physics when we're only changing the parameters of the cars that Dave Pollatsek's physics engine then turns into car behavior. With so many mods, you get variability like you'd see between different companies' products, not variations on one theme. Some may not accurately model inertial values, for instance, or make sure the lift/drag ratio tracks properly with various downforce levels, or know what tire model values (or differential settings) are appropriate for a given mod. So the resulting car behaviors can be unpredictable, and no doubt a lot of mod makers do leave more Cup car behind than need be. The Heat physics engine does make a nice base for mods, though, and after researching lots of champcar data for that (semi-finished) mod, we ended up with a package that ran within tenths of the real cars on all the tracks we had comparison data for; pretty good for a third party add-on. Heat's (Viper-based) engine is not quite at the GPL/N2002 level of fidelity, as it's designed for much less CPU overhead, so it has some issues when you stray a long way from the Cup-type cars it's optimized for. But for cars with softer suspensions and some mass, it does quite well; the upcoming Vintage Porsche mod feels a lot like the Japanese "Real Car Simulator" that was floating around a while back, but better. And the SoH mod gives a good hint at what SOS37 should have been. As for what you can do, you can fully define cars of all types; RWD, FWD, AWD, various diff-coupling arrangements, long-travel suspensions, etc.; really fun to play mad scientist. Ever wonder what a Lotus 49 would do with wings and slicks? Hehe... Or a 900hp champcar with the wings removed? (hint - don't go there...;-) ) One place you might look for your vague steering response is your options.cfg file. Look for these lines, and try these values if yours are different. low_speed_steering 1.000000 nonlinear_steering 0.000000 speed_sensitive_steering 0.000000 Hope this helps, SB "Haqsau" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a5pdml$99hmj$[email hidden]...

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> It's interesting to hear you say that, because some of the Heat mods I > have tried have still felt like Cup cars to me. I'm not going to > mention names, and I'm pretty sure these weren't ones that you were > involved with, but honestly with some of the mods I feel like rather > than driving a sports car I'm driving a lighter weight, more powerful > Cup car, or rather than driving an open wheeler, I'm driving a much > faster Cup car. Mostly this sensation comes from really vague steering > response. Even turning up the steering lock doesn't seem to eliminate > the vagueness. I suppose that could be a configuration problem too, but > the other thing is that they all still feel like they have spool rear > axles. Are there limitations to what you can change? Is it as editable > as F1 2001, for example?