Re: Superbike 2001 Controller

In article <9W7j8.12941$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Thought I might reload EA's Superbike 2001, and have a little break from > N2002. Never really played it when I first bought it, but now I've upgraded > my computer I'd like to give it a 'spin' again. Just wondered what > controllers anyone who played this, or other motorbike sims used. I have the > choice of a keyboard or Act Labs wheel. Tried the latter but it is > impossible to control the bike properly. > > Any advice appreciated. > > PJ

If you find something that works well, please let me know. I love the game but I never found a control method that was acceptable. -- __________________________ Todd Walker http://twalker.d2g.com __________________________

"Paul Jager" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9W7j8.12941$[email hidden]... > Thought I might reload EA's Superbike 2001, and have a little break from > N2002. Never really played it when I first bought it, but now I'veupgraded > my computer I'd like to give it a 'spin' again. Just wondered what > controllers anyone who played this, or other motorbike sims used. I havethe > choice of a keyboard or Act Labs wheel. Tried the latter but it is > impossible to control the bike properly. I've only ever played SBK 2000, and I used a Microsoft Sidewinder FF joystick. Worked great. That was before I got my wheel, so I've never tried a motorbike game with a wheel. Best results might be joystick for steering and shifting, pedals for gas and brake. Unless you want to spend a bunch of cash on a motorcycle-style controller (they do exist). I think the wheel has too long a "throw" to be useful as a motorbike controller - you need something "twitchier".

Not sure about the controller setup options in these games, but talking as a motorcyclist, you need to reverse the direction of movement of the wheel/controller (and 0 deadzone + max sensitivity) to get a realistic effect. A bike is tipped into a corner by applying opposite pressure, i.e. steer (slight pressure really) left to turn right, known in the trade as "counter steering. Cheers Martin "Paul Jager" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9W7j8.12941$[email hidden]... > Thought I might reload EA's Superbike 2001, and have a little break from > N2002. Never really played it when I first bought it, but now I'veupgraded > my computer I'd like to give it a 'spin' again. Just wondered what > controllers anyone who played this, or other motorbike sims used. I havethe

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> choice of a keyboard or Act Labs wheel. Tried the latter but it is > impossible to control the bike properly. > > Any advice appreciated. > > PJ > >

On Mon, 11 Mar 2002 19:57:50 GMT, "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"Paul Jager" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:9W7j8.12941$[email hidden]... >> Thought I might reload EA's Superbike 2001, and have a little break from >> N2002. Never really played it when I first bought it, but now I've >upgraded >> my computer I'd like to give it a 'spin' again. Just wondered what >> controllers anyone who played this, or other motorbike sims used. I have >the >> choice of a keyboard or Act Labs wheel. Tried the latter but it is >> impossible to control the bike properly. > >I've only ever played SBK 2000, and I used a Microsoft Sidewinder FF >joystick. Worked great. That was before I got my wheel, so I've never tried >a motorbike game with a wheel. Best results might be joystick for steering >and shifting, pedals for gas and brake. Unless you want to spend a bunch of >cash on a motorcycle-style controller (they do exist). > >I think the wheel has too long a "throw" to be useful as a motorbike >controller - you need something "twitchier". > >

Ummm.......I'm glad I saw this post I tried a lot of controllers and one day because my Sidewinder FF joystick was hooked up I gave it a try and I love it.......much better than my Logitech cordless rumble pad. Brad

Paul Jager wrote... > Thought I might reload EA's Superbike 2001, > <snip> > Any advice appreciated. I use a Logitech Wingman FF joystick, but it's not optimal either. Slow turns are disproportionately difficult. Jan. =---

Martin wrote...

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> Not sure about the controller setup options in these games, > but talking as a motorcyclist, you need to reverse the > direction of movement of the wheel/controller (and 0 > deadzone + max sensitivity) to get a realistic effect. > A bike is tipped into a corner by applying opposite > pressure, i.e. steer (slight pressure really) left to > turn right, known in the trade as "counter steering.

Not possible, the yaw of the wheel/stick mostly controls the lean angle of the bike in all games I've tried, not the "steering angle" of the head. That's the difficulty in modelling bikes and bike controllers in games. "Steering" a bike is not accomplished by a single component motion and certainly not entirely by manipulating a control on the bike. The rider intiates the turn and "snaps" it over then balances himself as the throttle picks up the bike and controls the exit. If, as you suggest, the games would model the initiation by the rider and the computers would handle the lean/line as the player applies the throttle, I think they would become unplayable as there's no way the programmers can relay the necessary feedback for the player to pull this off correctly and consistently. My 2c, Jan. =---

"Paul Jager" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Thought I might reload EA's Superbike 2001, and have a little break from > N2002. Never really played it when I first bought it, but now I'veupgraded > my computer I'd like to give it a 'spin' again. Just wondered what > controllers anyone who played this, or other motorbike sims used. I havethe > choice of a keyboard or Act Labs wheel. Tried the latter but it is > impossible to control the bike properly. I use a MS Freestyle Pro, which can be tilted in mid-air (sensor). But there are specific bike controllers out there: http://www.ergenic.com/english_version/frame(uk).htm http://www.motorcycle.com/mo/mcbeware/controller.html for Playstation: http://us.thrustmaster.com/products/lookproduct.php3?productid=152&skin=Play Station I can't say if it's any good, I've never tried this sort of controller. Ice D

Thought I might reload EA's Superbike 2001, and have a little break from N2002. Never really played it when I first bought it, but now I've upgraded my computer I'd like to give it a 'spin' again. Just wondered what controllers anyone who played this, or other motorbike sims used. I have the choice of a keyboard or Act Labs wheel. Tried the latter but it is impossible to control the bike properly. Any advice appreciated. PJ

"Rob Adams" > I think the wheel has too long a "throw" to be useful as a motorbike > controller - you need something "twitchier". > some users found good results by limiting the wheel travel or narrowing the available travel via wheel software. If you cut the available travel down to just a few degrees, instead of the 180 or more that most wheels have, then you should have a pretty reactive wheel for a bike sim. dave henrie

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> Ummm.......I'm glad I saw this post I tried a lot of controllers and > one day because my Sidewinder FF joystick was hooked up I gave it a > try and I love it.......much better than my Logitech cordless rumble > pad. > > Brad >

I have tried my MS FF joystick and found that there is too much distance between full left and full right steer. I can't steer quick enough with it. -- __________________________ Todd Walker http://twalker.d2g.com __________________________

I just push left to go left. There's no snapping and balancing involved. Throttle input can change the lean angle though, with no other inputs. To illustrate, you can stand entirely on the left side of the bike and the bike will not lean much at all. Rider balance isn't the major input. But let's leave it to the experts: http://www.superbikeschool.com/us/video_clips/nobs.rm The No B.S. bike is the No Body-Steering bike rigged with an additional (fixed, non-moveable) set of clip-ons shown in use in the first half of the video. Note that the rider is shifting his weight all over and bike doesn't move much. In the 2nd half of the video, the rider, with minimal force, pushes the "real" clip-ons forward on the left to turn left, and right - to turn right. This is counter-steering. For a text description of counter-steering, and how/why it works: http://www.superbikeschool.com/us/news_room/press_releases/no_bs_bike_release.shtml and http://www.msgroup.org/TIP048.html Although I disagree with some minor points raised in this article, I agree with the core points. But to bring it back to the topic, I'd like to see one of the two motorcycle controllers I'm aware (Ducati markets one, can't remember the name/brand of the other one I'm thinking of) be configurable to reflect counter-steering ("push left, go left"). -- Philip D'Amato [email hidden] "Jan Verschueren" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:8uaj8.249837$[email hidden]... <snip> > That's the difficulty in modelling bikes and bike controllers in games. > "Steering" a bike is not accomplished by a single component motion and > certainly not entirely by manipulating a control on the bike. The rider > intiates the turn and "snaps" it over then balances himself as the throttle > picks up the bike and controls the exit. <snip>

Philip D'Amato wrote... > I just push left to go left. <snip> Same point, different explanation. Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough and I can't watch the clip which illustrates your argument on this computer, but I hold "turning" a bike is a combination of control input, lean angle and rider movement, something which is not easily mapped to a single axis of a game controller. Sure you can nudge around a pothole using countersteering alone, but if you don't adjust your body to go with the bike you won't do much cornering at speed. Surely you don't keep the same body position while braking, turning in, through max lean angle and back out? Surely you don't wait for the bike to straigthen up and then "sit up" from your max lean angle position? -Balance, not upsetting the bike by your weight and movements, is the key to keeping it on and yourself off the black stuff. As for lean angle, the quicker you build it, the less you need for a given radius and speed. I.e. transitioning quickly from upright to the desired lean angle is benificial... "snapping it over" is the term used, I believe. Jan. =---

"Paul Jager" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<9W7j8.12941$[email hidden]>...

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> Thought I might reload EA's Superbike 2001, and have a little break from > N2002. Never really played it when I first bought it, but now I've upgraded > my computer I'd like to give it a 'spin' again. Just wondered what > controllers anyone who played this, or other motorbike sims used. I have the > choice of a keyboard or Act Labs wheel. Tried the latter but it is > impossible to control the bike properly. > > Any advice appreciated. > > PJ

The InterAct Hammerhead FX gamepad works well with Superbike 2001, IMO. Dual analog sticks, lots of buttons, and "rumble-pack"-type force feedback. Not quite as good as the sit-on-type cycle controllers you find in arcades, but it works quite nicely, IMO (MUCH better than my wheel-and-pedal combo). If you're not familiar with the Hammerhead, here's a brief review: http://www.joy-stick.net/reviews/gamepads/hammerhead.htm -- JB

I use an old CH Flightstick in combination with my TSW pedals. Seems to work pretty good except in the really tight corners. Wayne Hutchison "Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <9W7j8.12941$[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] says... > > Thought I might reload EA's Superbike 2001, and have a little break from > > N2002. Never really played it when I first bought it, but now I'veupgraded > > my computer I'd like to give it a 'spin' again. Just wondered what > > controllers anyone who played this, or other motorbike sims used. I havethe

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> > choice of a keyboard or Act Labs wheel. Tried the latter but it is > > impossible to control the bike properly. > > > > Any advice appreciated. > > > > PJ > > If you find something that works well, please let me know. I love the > game but I never found a control method that was acceptable. > > -- > __________________________ > Todd Walker > http://twalker.d2g.com > __________________________

Rob, I've used a *pair* of joysticks for car sims--the right for steering (L&R), the left for throttle/brakes (fore&aft). It looks (and--at first--feels) kinda gooney, like playing the theramin, but works pretty well. Yer right, a stick is a lot twitchier; several of the early GPL Hot Lap meisters used a stick (occasionally in conjunction with pedals) 'cuz you can really flick the cars around thus. --Steve "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2%7j8.1053$H4.1167@shaw-ty1...

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> "Paul Jager" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:9W7j8.12941$[email hidden]... > > Thought I might reload EA's Superbike 2001, and have a little break from > > N2002. Never really played it when I first bought it, but now I've > upgraded > > my computer I'd like to give it a 'spin' again. Just wondered what > > controllers anyone who played this, or other motorbike sims used. I have > the > > choice of a keyboard or Act Labs wheel. Tried the latter but it is > > impossible to control the bike properly. > > I've only ever played SBK 2000, and I used a Microsoft Sidewinder FF > joystick. Worked great. That was before I got my wheel, so I've never

tried > a motorbike game with a wheel. Best results might be joystick for steering > and shifting, pedals for gas and brake. Unless you want to spend a bunchof > cash on a motorcycle-style controller (they do exist). > > I think the wheel has too long a "throw" to be useful as a motorbike > controller - you need something "twitchier". > >

For GP500 - I used a MS Precision Pro USB stick & MS pedals (for MSFF wheel). I always preferred the feel of GP500. I thought it was very GPL like with this setup. Lots of practice required but real gains in time could be had pushing the limit. I think I tried the same setup on SBK2001 and it was the best method I could find. Quick steering and ability to modulate acceleration and braking. Slow left/right combination corners were a little trcky though. Good Luck Karl

"Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > If you find something that works well, please let me know. I love the > game but I never found a control method that was acceptable. I find using a joystick works best. There are a couple of dedicated motorbike controllers available, but I can't justify buying one that I will use in only one game so the joystick is the best solution. I use a MS FF2 stic,. I play flight-sims too so it came at no extra cost for me, but if you don't play flight sims then just get any cheap stick.

"Todd Walker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I have tried my MS FF joystick and found that there is too much distance > between full left and full right steer. I can't steer quick enough with > it. In your profiling software you can change the amount of throw. Reduce the outside throw.

Paul, I've used a Logitech Wingman joystick & Wingman Formula GP (non-force) wheel for SBK2001. Controlling the lean in corners has always been a problem in this sim, just can't get it right all the time. The wheel was a little better with the setting that you can use in the Wingman profiler software. But as I think the pot is starting to go (jittery wheel) have not spent to much time with SBK2001 and have used Motorsims AMA Superbike for my PC motorcycling pleasures. This game can be found in the bargain bins for $9.00 in the USA (I heard it was a free download for awhile on Moto.net at one time) and has a bad reputation for it's online failure that pissed off many that had high hopes for a online Bike sim. But offline it's not a bad little ride, you can not only tune the motorcycle but you can setup your controller for rider pitch & lean. In fact it has the most tunable controller interface that I have seen, and it actually works! The early levels (Amateur, 600's) are fairly easy and may seem arcade'ish but as you progress up into the Pro (SuperBike) level it gets allot more challenging with more options to tune the bike. I really like the Road Atlanta Track in this sim. You should give this one a try, the patch's may be hard to find but all that you need is the final 1.5 patch as they are cumulative. Works with DirectX 8.1 and NVIDIA drivers, (many versions). Also if you have an older computer (P2, Low end P3) you can give Castrol Honda SuperBike World Champions, & Castrol Honda 2000. CHS2000 was never released in the USA, (I think) as AMA Superbike was released around the same time, and sponsored by American Honda, the Demo was fun. But I have had no luck getting either of these running on anything that has DirectX 8 or higher. Happy Sim Riding ! -- 1907 - Daytona Beach Florida Glenn H. Curtiss rode a V8 powered motorcycle to a 136.30 mph record in the measured mile. The Chicago Daily News headline reads: "Fastest Mile On Earth, Bullets Are The Only Rivals Of Glenn Curtiss"

I usually short calibrate my wheel for 180 degrees (90 left, 90 right) and this feels much better.. works great. james "Paul Jager" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:9W7j8.12941$[email hidden]... > Thought I might reload EA's Superbike 2001, and have a little break from > N2002. Never really played it when I first bought it, but now I'veupgraded > my computer I'd like to give it a 'spin' again. Just wondered what > controllers anyone who played this, or other motorbike sims used. I havethe

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> choice of a keyboard or Act Labs wheel. Tried the latter but it is > impossible to control the bike properly. > > Any advice appreciated. > > PJ > >

>I usually short calibrate my wheel for 180 degrees (90 left, 90 right) and >this feels much better.. works great. > In the game, or in the Control Panel? Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.