F1 2001 - Two Wheels, Four Arms.

The world is filled with mysteries, and one of the most profound, in my mind, is why anyone with two arms who uses a steering wheel in a driving sim would want to look over that equipment and see, on the screen, two more arms and another steering wheel moving in a jerky approximation of input for the sim. I believe F1-2000 gave us the option to have a non-moving wheel, with it's LCD, in our cockpits. I don't see this option in F1 2001, am I missing something? On another issue, I've read that the second patch is a problem and should not be applied. Is this the general opinion, or one person's experience? I've just installed this sim, I'll look to Deja for guidance, but I'll probably have more questions. Thanks Larry

Larry Lindstrom <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]: > The world is filled with mysteries, and one of the > most profound, in my mind, is why anyone with two arms > who uses a steering wheel in a driving sim would want > to look over that equipment and see, on the screen, > two more arms and another steering wheel moving in a > jerky approximation of input for the sim. In my experience the wheel on the screen is a better indicator of what the game thinks you're doing than the actual wheel in your hands. Not everyone has their "real wheel" in line of sight, and it's another piece of eye candy on the screen. Having said that, I switch the screen wheel off in Nascar4/2002, and leave it on in GPL/F12001. I suppose that is pretty strange :o) cheers John

Damn I'd have to lay down to get me wheel and arms in my line of sight to my monitor. I like the moving wheel becasue its a good referance point of where the game things your are. Of course now that I have my new MOMO wheel maybe I won't have to worry about all that slop now. Well at least for awhile anyway. MadDAWG

There is an option in one of the .INI files to remove it. Can't remember how at the moment. But, bit gets rid of the LCD, so you get no feedback at all. I'd just like to keep the wheel still, but I don't think you can do it. You can remove teh wheel in the FIA GT Mod and you still get the LCD and that works great. James "Larry Lindstrom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> The world is filled with mysteries, and one of the > most profound, in my mind, is why anyone with two arms > who uses a steering wheel in a driving sim would want > to look over that equipment and see, on the screen, > two more arms and another steering wheel moving in a > jerky approximation of input for the sim. > > I believe F1-2000 gave us the option to have a > non-moving wheel, with it's LCD, in our cockpits. > > I don't see this option in F1 2001, am I missing > something? > > On another issue, I've read that the second patch > is a problem and should not be applied. Is this the > general opinion, or one person's experience? > > I've just installed this sim, I'll look to Deja > for guidance, but I'll probably have more questions. > > Thanks > Larry

In article <[email hidden]>, MadDAWG <onefastford@NOS PAMhotmail.com> writes >Damn I'd have to lay down to get me wheel and arms in my line of sight to >my >monitor. I like the moving wheel becasue its a good referance point of where >the game things your are. I don't understand this statement. All it shows is how far the wheel onscreen is turning, it doesn't give any indication of how much that turn has an affect on your fronts and so isn't going to speed up the learning process in any way. So, as far as I can tell, instead of learning how much your own steering wheel turns have an affect on the fronts when you turn the wheel, and thus becoming more intuitive as to how much you need to turn your wheel to get the appropriate amount of turn, you have to watch the onscreen steering wheel and guage from that how much the car is likely to turn in and then adjust your own steering inputs accordingly (a duel input/output requirement which seems less intuitive and possibly takes your eyes away from other more important hazards on track) . No improved feedback as far as I can tell, just an extra distraction. Or am I missing something? So, for me, as I become more adept at the sim, I 'know' how much I need to turn the steering wheel in order to produce the correct amount of turn and it becomes more automatic (I don't have to think about it, I just do it). How does having the onscreen wheel improve on that? Surely you're just trying to do the same, except that you are trying to use the onscreen wheel to give you feedback on how much the car is likely to turn when you turn your physical wheel. So you're looking at your onscreen wheel and making adjustments based upon the feedback you get from that instead of what the car is doing on the road. I see no added help there. -- Peter Ives Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email

>MadDAWG <[email hidden]> writes > >Damn I'd have to lay down to get me wheel and arms in my line of sight to > >my > >monitor. I like the moving wheel becasue its a good referance point ofwhere > >the game things your are. > > I don't understand this statement. All it shows is how far the wheel > onscreen is turning, it doesn't give any indication of how much that > turn has an affect on your fronts and so isn't going to speed up the > learning process in any way. As I said my game controller is no where near my line of site to my monitor, so I don't see my real wheel at all. I disagree with "it doesn't give any indication of how much that turn has an affect on your fronts". It has as much correlation as your real wheel does. Full lock right is full lock right. Sure you may move your real wheel 15 degrees and have the screen wheel only move 10 degree, but if your only seeing on of them it doesn't really matter. You turn your hands until the screen wheel reaches your point of reference . I'm sure anyone that's been at this for some time has experienced a spiking game port so actually seeing how the game is interrupting your inputs is a plus. MadDAWG

In <[email hidden]>, Peter Ives wrote:

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> In article <[email hidden]>, MadDAWG <onefastford@NOS > PAMhotmail.com> writes >>Damn I'd have to lay down to get me wheel and arms in my line of sight >>to my >>monitor. I like the moving wheel becasue its a good referance point of >>where the game things your are. > > I don't understand this statement. All it shows is how far the wheel > onscreen is turning, it doesn't give any indication of how much that > turn has an affect on your fronts and so isn't going to speed up the > learning process in any way.

It is a very useful debugging tool as well as the other reasons mentioned. I like the wheel and arms a lot. --- Bill Ryder

I'm not arguing with either point here, but when I'm driving a real car, whether it is our van or Jeep, I don't "see" the steering wheel since I'm looking at the road, other vehicles, pedestrians, etc., while glancing in my mirrors every few seconds. I don't depend on a visual sighting of the position of the steering wheel to make a decision of angle approaching a turn. It is a calculation of my sight of the objective, the realization of how fast I feel I'm approaching, and "knowing" the vehicle I'm driving and its reactions to situations. In PC sims, we don't have the "seat of the pants" feeling for the vehicle for either acceleration/deceleration or G-forces. Despite force feedback, we really only see the majority of reactions of the vehicle (whatever view is used) and don't actually feel them as you would with forces putting pressure on your restraint belts. -- Chris H. "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > >MadDAWG <[email hidden]> writes > > >Damn I'd have to lay down to get me wheel and arms in my line of sight to > > >my > > >monitor. I like the moving wheel becasue its a good referance point of > where > > >the game things your are. > > > > I don't understand this statement. All it shows is how far the wheel > > onscreen is turning, it doesn't give any indication of how much that > > turn has an affect on your fronts and so isn't going to speed up the > > learning process in any way. > > As I said my game controller is no where near my line of site to my monitor, > so I don't see my real wheel at all. I disagree with "it doesn't give any > indication of how much that turn has an affect on your fronts". It has as > much correlation as your real wheel does. Full lock right is full lock > right. Sure you may move your real wheel 15 degrees and have the screen > wheel only move 10 degree, but if your only seeing on of them it doesn't > really matter. You turn your hands until the screen wheel reaches your point > of reference . I'm sure anyone that's been at this for some time has > experienced a spiking game port so actually seeing how the game is > interrupting your inputs is a plus. > > MadDAWG > > >

In article <[email hidden]>, Bill Ryder <[email hidden]> writes

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>In <[email hidden]>, Peter >Ives wrote: > >> In article <[email hidden]>, MadDAWG ><onefastford@NOS >> PAMhotmail.com> writes >>>Damn I'd have to lay down to get me wheel and arms in my line of sight >>>to my >>>monitor. I like the moving wheel becasue its a good referance point of >>>where the game things your are. >> >> I don't understand this statement. All it shows is how far the wheel >> onscreen is turning, it doesn't give any indication of how much that >> turn has an affect on your fronts and so isn't going to speed up the >> learning process in any way. > >It is a very useful debugging tool as well as the other reasons >mentioned. >

Indeed it can be, as was mentioned by madDAWG in another post, and the only time I would probably want to make use of it otherwise it's just a distraction I could do without. Like Chris H said, all I want to do is allow as much concentration on the road and not anywhere else and so I don't even have to think about what my hands are doing on the wheel and certainly don't want to be wasting that focus by looking at an onscreen representation. Intuitively, I know by how much I need to turn my wheel in order to produce the correct response in whichever game I'm playing. It's just a personal thing, but that onscreen wheel just ain't gonna help in any way to improve on that. Anyway, when it comes down to it, it's what each person feels comfortable with. Was just interested in people's personal experiences and opinions. :) -- Peter Ives Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email

Peter Ives <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > Anyway, when it comes down to it, it's what each person feels > comfortable with. Was just interested in people's personal experiences > and opinions. :) Onscreen wheels are a distraction that I would rather do without. I literally swear at my monitor everytime I crash in Rally Trophy because I was distracted by the big moving round thing on my screen instead of concentrating on the road. I wouldn't even consider them useful for calibrating your wheel. Jason