JoWooD/Bugbear: Poor Attitude!

I got RT before Xmas, controllers wouldn't work! I waited for a patch. Patch came out. Patch contained input.ini file. Input.ini file hard to understand and pretty much unexplained in the read.me text. So I did some fiddling and managed to unravel it's hidden secrets. I popped along to JoWooD's forum, which was stuffed full of people with controller problems. I saw little evidence of peoples problems being resolved. The odd one was, but was quickly replaced by two more people with similar troubles. I posted what I know about the input.ini along with a small critique on RT's controller set-up. The whole post was removed! Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! Gerry

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I got RT before Xmas, controllers wouldn't work! I waited for a patch. > Patch came out. Patch contained input.ini file. Input.ini file hard to > understand and pretty much unexplained in the read.me text. > > So I did some fiddling and managed to unravel it's hidden secrets. I > popped along to JoWooD's forum, which was stuffed full of people with > controller problems. I saw little evidence of peoples problems being > resolved. The odd one was, but was quickly replaced by two more people > with similar troubles. I posted what I know about the input.ini along > with a small critique on RT's controller set-up. The whole post was > removed! > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund!

Jowood was very helpful with the few problems that I had with Rally Trophy. Kyle

Kyle Kyle Roberts wrote: > Jowood was very helpful with the few problems that I had with Rally Trophy. Glad to hear that, but... If they'd done a proper job of the controller set-up, it would have saved a lot of people, including themselves, a lot of trouble. AND they're not big enough to admit it. Just out of interest, what was your problem? Gerry

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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> So I did some fiddling and managed to unravel it's hidden secrets. I > popped along to JoWooD's forum, which was stuffed full of people with > controller problems. I saw little evidence of peoples problems being > resolved. The odd one was, but was quickly replaced by two more people > with similar troubles. I posted what I know about the input.ini along > with a small critique on RT's controller set-up. The whole post was > removed! > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > > Gerry

Gerry Please post what you know about the controller config file here so we can all learn from what you have found out. It would be great if you could also post it on the Rally Simulations forum at Racesim Central. I promise we won't delete the thread. Phil Lee --- Racesim Central Administrator http://www.racesimcentral.com

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... <snip>! > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > > Gerry You know a place that will refund on software you bought over three months ago!!? Amazing David

David Erb wrote:

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> > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > <snip>! > > > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > > > > Gerry > > You know a place that will refund on software you bought over three months > ago!!? Amazing

I know my rights under the sale of goods act.

Gerry Aitken wrote:

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> > David Erb wrote: > > > > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > <snip>! > > > > > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > > > > > > Gerry > > > > You know a place that will refund on software you bought over three months > > ago!!? Amazing > > I know my rights under the sale of goods act.

And so, it would appear, do the shop. Because they said 'no problem, just bring it back for a full refund'.

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Gerry Aitken wrote: > > > > David Erb wrote: > > > > > > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > <snip>! > > > > > > > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > > > > > > > > Gerry > > > > > > You know a place that will refund on software you bought over three

months > > > ago!!? Amazing > > > > I know my rights under the sale of goods act. > > And so, it would appear, do the shop. Because they said 'no problem, > just bring it back for a full refund'. Thats very good of them. Must be some sort of customer relations policy though. Somehow I can't see the removal of a post on a bulletin board the resaler doesn't control as being sufficient reason for the refund of a purchased good. I congratulate you on your choice of retailers. David

David Erb wrote:

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> > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Gerry Aitken wrote: > > > > > > David Erb wrote: > > > > > > > > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > <snip>! > > > > > > > > > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > > > > > > > > > > Gerry > > > > > > > > You know a place that will refund on software you bought over three > months > > > > ago!!? Amazing > > > > > > I know my rights under the sale of goods act. > > > > And so, it would appear, do the shop. Because they said 'no problem, > > just bring it back for a full refund'. > > Thats very good of them. Must be some sort of customer relations policy > though. Somehow I can't see the removal of a post on a bulletin board the > resaler doesn't control as being sufficient reason for the refund of a > purchased good. I congratulate you on your choice of retailers.

I just said that patch RT was still screwed in the controller configuration department. Which it is. I didn't mention all the time i spent waiting for the patch, or all the time i spent figuring out the input.ini file. But fuck it, i think i'll ask for compensation too! BTW, I phoned Dixons, EB, PC world and Currys pretending to have bought RT from each, and they all offered a refund. So there you go boys, take those bug ridden, piles of shit some developers call games, back to the shop months later for your money back. In the UK anyway.

"Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:l6in8.8753$[email hidden]... > Please post what you know about the controller config file here so we can > all learn from what you have found out. It would be great if you couldalso

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> post it on the Rally Simulations forum at Racesim Central. I promise we > won't delete the thread. > > Phil Lee > --- > Racesim Central Administrator > http://www.racesimcentral.com >

Phil - The answer to most of your questions lies with JoystImm.exe a little utility that comes with Racer and gives you accurate raw data from your controllers so that you can plug the values into RT's input.ini. That plus a little reading on the JW forums to get the optimal values for the other settings and you and your readers should be off to the track. You can get JoystImm.exe here (I up'd it to my site for you) http://www.flexbon.com/tmp/JoystImm.exe as for my controller, it is a Logitech Momo which I wired to my TSW2 pedals (took about 15 minutes) along with an RS Shifter. The raw data looks like this in JoystImm: Throttle (Z axis) 0 up to 1000 down Brake (Z Rotation) -1000 up to 1000 down Wheel (X axis) -1000 left to +1000 right Here's how my input.ini shakes out with those numbers: # How many control events are buffered BufferSize = 8; #---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Converts analog steering to digital # (for gamepads that are reported as analog) ForceDigitalSteering = 0; #---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Minimum & maximum values for input devices AxisMinValue = -1000; AxisMaxValue = 1000; #---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Values for exponential functions # ( 1.0 = no effect, bigger values give less sensitivity, smaller more) SteeringExponent = 1.2; ThrottleExponent = 1.0; BrakeExponent = 1.5; #---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Set this to 1 if you want to use following custom ranges OverrideRanges = 1; #---------------------------------------------------------------------- AnalogXAxisRange = { -1000, 1000}; AnalogYAxisRange = { -1000, 1000}; AnalogZAxisRange = { 0, 1000}; # Rotational AnalogRXAxisRange = { 1000, -1000}; AnalogRYAxisRange = { 1000, -1000}; AnalogRZAxisRange = { -1000, 1000}; #--------------------------------------------------------------------------- Those settings along with my screw driver, wire cutter and electrical tape allow me to use my TSW2 pedals in split axis mode with RT (and all other titles). I used feedback from other drivers on the JW board to come up with these settings: SteeringExponent = 1.2; ThrottleExponent = 1.0; BrakeExponent = 1.5; They work very well for me and others have posted in agreement. Hope this helps! - David Cook

The good ol USA has a much more limited refund policy I would think. Most big shops like CompUSA only refund unopened products and then only within 15 days or so. An open defective product can be exchanged for the same title. If you popped in about some law or the other, the sales clerk would most likely respond with: "huh?????" dave henrie "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > David Erb wrote: > > > > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > Gerry Aitken wrote: > > > > > > > > David Erb wrote: > > > > > > > > > > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > <snip>! > > > > > > > > > > > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > > > > > > > > > > > > Gerry > > > > > > > > > > You know a place that will refund on software you bought over

three

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> > months > > > > > ago!!? Amazing > > > > > > > > I know my rights under the sale of goods act. > > > > > > And so, it would appear, do the shop. Because they said 'no problem, > > > just bring it back for a full refund'. > > > > Thats very good of them. Must be some sort of customer relations policy > > though. Somehow I can't see the removal of a post on a bulletin board

the

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> > resaler doesn't control as being sufficient reason for the refund of a > > purchased good. I congratulate you on your choice of retailers. > > I just said that patch RT was still screwed in the controller > configuration department. Which it is. I didn't mention all the time i > spent waiting for the patch, or all the time i spent figuring out the > input.ini file. > > But fuck it, i think i'll ask for compensation too! > > BTW, I phoned Dixons, EB, PC world and Currys pretending to have bought > RT from each, and they all offered a refund. > > So there you go boys, take those bug ridden, piles of shit some > developers call games, back to the shop months later for your money > back. In the UK anyway.

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ozln8.108077$702.22345@sccrnsc02... > The good ol USA has a much more limited refund policy I would think.Most > big shops like CompUSA only refund unopened products and then only within15 > days or so. An open defective product can be exchanged for the sametitle. > If you popped in about some law or the other, the sales clerk would most > likely respond with: > "huh?????" > dave henrie Don't they do that in response to EVERYTHING at CompUSA ? ;-) -- 9/11/01....Never forget Ken

That's really too bad they saw fit to remove your post. Do you still have a copy of the tweaks you came up with, and if so, could you post it here? TIA, Bob "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I got RT before Xmas, controllers wouldn't work! I waited for a patch. > Patch came out. Patch contained input.ini file. Input.ini file hard to > understand and pretty much unexplained in the read.me text. > > So I did some fiddling and managed to unravel it's hidden secrets. I > popped along to JoWooD's forum, which was stuffed full of people with > controller problems. I saw little evidence of peoples problems being > resolved. The odd one was, but was quickly replaced by two more people > with similar troubles. I posted what I know about the input.ini along > with a small critique on RT's controller set-up. The whole post was > removed! > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > > Gerry

Bob G wrote: > > That's really too bad they saw fit to remove your post. Do you still have a > copy of the tweaks you came up with, and if so, could you post it here? Bob -- see David's reply to Phil, in this thread. It pretty much covers it. Good luck Gerry

"Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<l6in8.8753$[email hidden]>...

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> "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > So I did some fiddling and managed to unravel it's hidden secrets. I > > popped along to JoWooD's forum, which was stuffed full of people with > > controller problems. I saw little evidence of peoples problems being > > resolved. The odd one was, but was quickly replaced by two more people > > with similar troubles. I posted what I know about the input.ini along > > with a small critique on RT's controller set-up. The whole post was > > removed! > > > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > > > > Gerry > > Gerry > > Please post what you know about the controller config file here so we can > all learn from what you have found out. It would be great if you could also > post it on the Rally Simulations forum at Racesim Central. I promise we > won't delete the thread. > > Phil Lee > --- > Racesim Central Administrator > http://www.racesimcentral.com

It really helps to know what kind of wheel you're using, and whether you're having problems with combined or split axis controls. FWIW, the SINGLE best piece of info regarding controller issues was found here: http://forum.jowood.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=27245&t=7356#post27245 Check out the second post in the thread, from "Cooknn" -- his input.ini settings TRANSFORMED the game for me. Your mileage may vary . . . ;-) -- JB

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says... > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > Please tell me where you buy your games that they will give you a refund on an open box, 3 months after it was purchased. -- __________________________ Todd Walker http://twalker.d2g.com __________________________

says... Please tell me where you buy your games that they will give you a refund on an open box, 3 months after it was purchased. -- __________________________ Todd Walker http://twalker.d2g.com __________________________

Todd Walker wrote:

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> > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > says... > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > > > > Please tell me where you buy your games that they will give you a refund > on an open box, 3 months after it was purchased.

Great Britain! Have a look at my original sales receipt and the refund posted in alt.binaries.simulators.auto. Not the date of purchase!

You actually speak to sales clerks? LOL, and about a return? Waste of time, talk to the right people and get the job done quick. You'd be amazed what a manager will go through for a customer if YOU handle the situation properly. Ever ask for a corporate #? Funny how the person who asks for it always comes back getting what he or she wants the next day. Charlie "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ozln8.108077$702.22345@sccrnsc02... > The good ol USA has a much more limited refund policy I would think.Most > big shops like CompUSA only refund unopened products and then only within15 > days or so. An open defective product can be exchanged for the sametitle.

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> If you popped in about some law or the other, the sales clerk would most > likely respond with: > "huh?????" > dave henrie > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > David Erb wrote: > > > > > > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > > > > > > > Gerry Aitken wrote: > > > > > > > > > > David Erb wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > <snip>! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Gerry > > > > > > > > > > > > You know a place that will refund on software you bought over > three > > > months > > > > > > ago!!? Amazing > > > > > > > > > > I know my rights under the sale of goods act. > > > > > > > > And so, it would appear, do the shop. Because they said 'no problem, > > > > just bring it back for a full refund'. > > > > > > Thats very good of them. Must be some sort of customer relations

policy

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> > > though. Somehow I can't see the removal of a post on a bulletin board > the > > > resaler doesn't control as being sufficient reason for the refund of a > > > purchased good. I congratulate you on your choice of retailers. > > > > I just said that patch RT was still screwed in the controller > > configuration department. Which it is. I didn't mention all the time i > > spent waiting for the patch, or all the time i spent figuring out the > > input.ini file. > > > > But fuck it, i think i'll ask for compensation too! > > > > BTW, I phoned Dixons, EB, PC world and Currys pretending to have bought > > RT from each, and they all offered a refund. > > > > So there you go boys, take those bug ridden, piles of shit some > > developers call games, back to the shop months later for your money > > back. In the UK anyway. > > >

> Don't they do that in response to EVERYTHING at CompUSA ? ;-) > > -- > 9/11/01....Never forget > > Ken Yes they do. And seeing how EB, Best Buy, and Circuit City a 1/2 mile down the road sells almost all the same stuff for LESS, with better return policies, its no wonder CrapUSA hasnt seen my money in a couple years or so.

Thanks David! You helped me fix my problem with Rally Trophy. My problem had been that the brake worked exactly backwards. On the floor was no brakes, up was full brakes. My settings didn't show up correctly though using joystImm.exe program. I have a TSW2 w/clutch kit. Running Split axis, using the RockFire USB adapter on Windows XP. Using the program, the following was detected: Steering - X Axis (-1000,1000) Brake - Z Rotation axis (-1000,1000) Throttle - Slider 0 (1000,-1000) Clutch - Y Axis (1,1000) When I used these settings in the input.ini file, It wouldn't work. I tried the ones you had listed, and everything worked except the throttle, which was pegged either on the floor or all the way up, but in the middle, there was no throttle. Through experimentation I arrived at the following: # Set this to 1 if you want to use following custom ranges instead of detected values OverrideRanges = 1; #--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- # Steering input range # (100% left, 100% right) AnalogXAxisRange = {-1000, 1000}; # (often brake) AnalogYAxisRange = { -1000, 1000}; # (often acceleration) AnalogZAxisRange = { 1000, -1000}; # Rotational AnalogRXAxisRange = { 1000, -1000}; AnalogRYAxisRange = { 1000, -1000}; # (often a rudded control) AnalogRZAxisRange = { -1000, 1000}; The Z - Axis turns out to be the throttle in this game, unfortunately, I don't remember what was the brake, but it works now. Thanks for getting me headed the right way, now this can be fun again. I also have the Logitech Momo, but haven't been able to get rid of the TSW2 for it. The Logitech is distracting to me for some reason. I like the extra buttons though, so maybe I will give it another try... Glen Pittman

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > {Binary (.jpg of two receipts) Removed} OK, now it makes sense. Of course they'll refund your money if you make them bleed! <g>

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > > Todd Walker wrote: > > > > In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] > > says... > > > Today RT goes back to it's point of purchase for a refund! > > > > > > > Please tell me where you buy your games that they will give you a refund > > on an open box, 3 months after it was purchased. > [image/jpeg] >

Gerry, I didn't realize you were in the UK. It seems that return policies there are much more relaxed than in the states. If you buy software at a retail outlet here, you can exchange it for the same title (such as if the CD is scratched or something) but you cannot exchange for a different title or return for a refund. Pretty much once you walk out of the store it is yours. I guess they are afraid people would buy a game, take it home and copy it, then return it for their money back. Interestingly enough, I just looked at the return policies for ebworld.com and gamestop.com (websites for Electronic Boutique and Babbage's) and they are much more lenient than their in-store counterparts. Via the web, you can return anything within 30 days for a refund. -- ______________________ Todd Walker http://twalker.d2g.com Canon Pro90IS ______________________

Todd Walker wrote: > Interestingly enough, I just looked at the return policies for > ebworld.com and gamestop.com (websites for Electronic Boutique and > Babbage's) and they are much more lenient than their in-store > counterparts. Via the web, you can return anything within 30 days for a > refund. You can at EB in-store as well, usually within 10 days. I do it often. I'll get the new releases there for premium $ & when they go on sale within a week elsewhere (BestBuy, Media Play, Circuit City, etc.) like they always do, I return it & go buy it for a decent price. I know. Bad me... -- Fester "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Todd Walker wrote: > > > Interestingly enough, I just looked at the return policies for > > ebworld.com and gamestop.com (websites for Electronic Boutique and > > Babbage's) and they are much more lenient than their in-store > > counterparts. Via the web, you can return anything within 30 days for a > > refund. > > > You can at EB in-store as well, usually within 10 days. I do it often. > I'll get the new releases there for premium $ & when they go on sale > within a week elsewhere (BestBuy, Media Play, Circuit City, etc.) like > they always do, I return it & go buy it for a decent price. > > I know. Bad me... > > -- > > Fester > > <Bloated sig snipped>

There should be a rule that your post has to be longer than your sig. Anyway. EB has changed their lenient return policy. You can only exchange opened software, you can no longer get a straight refund. They will let you exchange it for one other title and that transaction is final. You wouldn't have to return things there anyway if you just want the better price. They pricematch. If you are thrifty the best bet is to buy from Best Buy as soon as a title is released and before they put it on sale and then wait for Best Buy or someone else to put it on sale. They pricematch plus give 10% of the difference within 30 days. Kyle

Isn't the fact that they made and released a patch admitting to everyone that they screwed up and therefore, here is the patch to fix the problems? What more do you want, a written apology in 200 words or more? I think you just got your ego bruised after you posted criticism on THEIR forum and it was deleted. -Tim "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > Kyle > > Kyle Roberts wrote: > > > Jowood was very helpful with the few problems that I had with RallyTrophy.

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> > Glad to hear that, but... > > If they'd done a proper job of the controller set-up, it would have > saved a lot of people, including themselves, a lot of trouble. AND > they're not big enough to admit it. > > Just out of interest, what was your problem? > > Gerry

Actually, all 3 of those stores have the exact same return policy on computer software (15 days/restocking fee/etc.). Only EB stands apart. -Tim "GMpartsguy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tdtn8.104907$[email hidden]...

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> > > Don't they do that in response to EVERYTHING at CompUSA ? ;-) > > > > -- > > 9/11/01....Never forget > > > > Ken > > Yes they do. And seeing how EB, Best Buy, and Circuit City a 1/2 mile down > the road sells almost all the same stuff for LESS, with better return > policies, its no wonder CrapUSA hasnt seen my money in a couple years or

so. > >

Why don't you just have them pricematch it? Also, the EB policy allows each store to make exceptions in their return policy for jokers like you. -Tim "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Todd Walker wrote: > > > Interestingly enough, I just looked at the return policies for > > ebworld.com and gamestop.com (websites for Electronic Boutique and > > Babbage's) and they are much more lenient than their in-store > > counterparts. Via the web, you can return anything within 30 days for a > > refund. > > > You can at EB in-store as well, usually within 10 days. I do it often. > I'll get the new releases there for premium $ & when they go on sale > within a week elsewhere (BestBuy, Media Play, Circuit City, etc.) like > they always do, I return it & go buy it for a decent price. > > I know. Bad me... > > -- > > Fester > > "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the > citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a > double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the > mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the > blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no > need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, > infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their > rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I > have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar >

Kyle Roberts wrote:

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> "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >>Todd Walker wrote: >> >> >>>Interestingly enough, I just looked at the return policies for >>>ebworld.com and gamestop.com (websites for Electronic Boutique and >>>Babbage's) and they are much more lenient than their in-store >>>counterparts. Via the web, you can return anything within 30 days for a >>>refund. >> >> >>You can at EB in-store as well, usually within 10 days. I do it often. >> I'll get the new releases there for premium $ & when they go on sale >>within a week elsewhere (BestBuy, Media Play, Circuit City, etc.) like >>they always do, I return it & go buy it for a decent price. >> >>I know. Bad me... >> >>-- >> >>Fester >> >><Bloated sig snipped> > > > > There should be a rule that your post has to be longer than your sig. > Anyway. EB has changed their lenient return policy. You can only exchange > opened software, you can no longer get a straight refund. They will let you > exchange it for one other title and that transaction is final. You wouldn't > have to return things there anyway if you just want the better price. They > pricematch. If you are thrifty the best bet is to buy from Best Buy as soon > as a title is released and before they put it on sale and then wait for Best > Buy or someone else to put it on sale. They pricematch plus give 10% of the > difference within 30 days.

They still did it here as of the N2k2 release. Best Buy doesn't get most titles in right away. I get the benefit of a Day 1 release & still end up with a good price. :-) And I'll have just as long of a post/sig as I damn well please, thank you. :-) -- Fester "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar

Tim Miser wrote: > Why don't you just have them pricematch it? I give my business to the establishment with the best pricing. I have the wife for haggling & coupons & such. That's what this reminds me of. Keep it simple. It don't work/don't work well on my machine, gimme my $$ back. BestBuy is on the route home. EZ. >Also, the EB policy allows each store to make exceptions in their return >policy for jokers like you. I rarely see the same people in there when I return as I do when I buy. Not like I tell them the real reason I'm returning it after all, cmon now! Joker? Got a problem with me? I play by *their* rules pal. -- Fester "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar

Tim Miser wrote: > > Isn't the fact that they made and released a patch admitting to everyone > that they screwed up and therefore, here is the patch to fix the problems? Here's what they say about the controller issues in the patch read.me: CONTROLS: - Input.ini file in the rallytrophy\data\settings folder has descriptions for each parameter. Use only if you really need to customize your controller values(and backup the original input.ini)! That's should be enough to put the casual user off! > What more do you want, a written apology in 200 words or more? How about 200 words on what the input.ini does? > I think you just got your ego bruised after you posted criticism on THEIR > forum and it was deleted. Nothing to do with 'ego', they just pissed me off. Never mind, I have my money back now. RT is crap anyway, IMO. Yours sneeringly

Gerry....RT doesn't show itself until you are up near the limit. NOT your limit which is alot lower than the aliens. If you could get past the stage that RT (and many other good games) shows itself then perhaps you could appreciate it more. Unfortunately this takes hours and hours of practice,ask the elite. You like many others miss out on the upper reaches of the games experience because you just dont work hard enough at it and/or put the hours in. GPL for one doesnt feel at all real when your best lap is 1.40 at Monza. But the faster you get and better you get it feels more and more real. This is the same thing i have found with RT. Sad you dealt with this situation as you did,if you were near enough to me in UK i would have popped over and set up RT properly for you.:) Agreed input.ini stuff is beyond many basic gamers but you can get there somehow,as i dont agree that there was just one solution for all,little tweaks here and there did the trick mostly. Morgan

Morgan, I don't agree. There are people complaining now about the physics changes since the patch, look at this thread at the JoWood forum: http://forum.jowood.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4846 One of the people complaining is an alien by the way. KenKunen used to top the rankings, I haven't checked on them lately, but he sure is a great driver who spent a lot of time on this game. I am far from being an alien myself, but I liked the old RT a lot better than the new version. So I re-installed that after getting frustrated with the hovercraft feeling and don't compete in the rankings anymore. I have spent a lot of time enjoying the old RT, the patched version has lost its edge and just doesn't cut it for me. John Morgan Boof wrote:

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> Gerry....RT doesn't show itself until you are up near the limit. > > NOT your limit which is alot lower than the aliens. > > If you could get past the stage that RT (and many other good games) shows > itself then perhaps you could appreciate it more. > > Unfortunately this takes hours and hours of practice,ask the elite. > > You like many others miss out on the upper reaches of the games experience > because you just dont work hard enough at it and/or put the hours in. > > GPL for one doesnt feel at all real when your best lap is 1.40 at Monza. > > But the faster you get and better you get it feels more and more real. > > This is the same thing i have found with RT. > > Sad you dealt with this situation as you did,if you were near enough to me > in UK i would have popped over and set up RT properly for you.:) > > Agreed input.ini stuff is beyond many basic gamers but you can get there > somehow,as i dont agree that there was just one solution for all,little > tweaks here and there did the trick mostly. > > > Morgan > > >

Gerry Aitken wrote:

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> So I did some fiddling and managed to unravel it's hidden secrets. I > popped along to JoWooD's forum, which was stuffed full of people with > controller problems. I saw little evidence of peoples problems being > resolved. The odd one was, but was quickly replaced by two more people > with similar troubles. I posted what I know about the input.ini along > with a small critique on RT's controller set-up. The whole post was > removed!

Given the opportunity you in the UK have, I'd return it as well given their arrogance. Good move. -- Fester "Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar

Hi Morgan Thanks for the polite criticism. Morgan Boof wrote: > Gerry....RT doesn't show itself until you are up near the limit. > > NOT your limit which is alot lower than the aliens. If the physics model is realistic, it should feel realistic at all speeds. I found there to be too many canned aspects to the handling of the cars for my liking. > If you could get past the stage that RT (and many other good games) shows > itself then perhaps you could appreciate it more. Maybe, but if that's the case, it ain't for me. > Unfortunately this takes hours and hours of practice,ask the elite. After I sorted the input.in...about five weeks ago...I DID put in a fair few hours with RT, leaving me with the opinion of it I have. BTW, is it possible to have an analogue clutch and hand brake? > You like many others miss out on the upper reaches of the games experience > because you just dont work hard enough at it and/or put the hours in. Again, I DID put some effort in. > GPL for one doesnt feel at all real when your best lap is 1.40 at Monza. Really!? It does to me. > But the faster you get and better you get it feels more and more real. With respect, I disagree with you there. To me, GPL feels no more realistic when driven at high speed, than it does when I'm cruising around to start a flying lap. > This is the same thing i have found with RT. Really?! Well if that's true of RT, then that's a bad 'feature' IMO. > > Sad you dealt with this situation as you did,if you were near enough to me > in UK i would have popped over and set up RT properly for you.:) But I DID sort the input.ini out weeks ago. But how stupid was it that I had to wait from November last year until the patch, and then STILL have to dick about editing a file before I could drive the frigging thing??! > Agreed input.ini stuff is beyond many basic gamers but you can get there > somehow,as i dont agree that there was just one solution for all,little > tweaks here and there did the trick mostly. This is my whole point. They couldn't take my critique, so they aren't keeping my money. They fucked up the control configuration in ver1.0 and made a pig's ear of putting it right in the patch. All in all, a shabby effort. The whole game feels like it was play tested by dimwits using second-rate controllers, most likely game pads or keyboards! All just *my* opinion, of course. Cheers Gerry

Hi Morgan Thanks for the polite criticism. > Gerry....RT doesn't show itself until you are up near the limit. > NOT your limit which is alot lower than the aliens. If the physics model is realistic, it should feel realistic at all speeds. I found there to be too many canned aspects to the handling of the cars for my liking. Maybe, but if that's the case, it ain't for me. After I sorted the input.in...about five weeks ago...I DID put in a fair few hours with RT, leaving me with the opinion of it I have. BTW, is it possible to have an analogue clutch and hand brake? Again, I DID put some effort in. Really!? It does to me. With respect, I disagree with you there. To me, GPL feels no more realistic when driven at high speed, than it does when I'm cruising around to start a flying lap. Really?! Well if that's true of RT, then that's a bad 'feature' IMO. But I DID sort the input.ini out weeks ago. But how stupid was it that I had to wait from November last year until the patch, and then STILL have to*** about editing a file before I could drive the frigging thing??! This is my whole point. They couldn't take my critique, so they aren't keeping my money. They ***ed up the control configuration in ver1.0 and made a pig's ear of putting it right in the patch. All in all, a shabby effort. The whole game feels like it was play tested by dimwits using second-rate controllers, most likely game pads or keyboards! All just *my* opinion, of course. Cheers Gerry

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Tim Miser wrote: > > Why don't you just have them pricematch it? > > I give my business to the establishment with the best pricing. I have > the wife for haggling & coupons & such. That's what this reminds me of. > Keep it simple. It don't work/don't work well on my machine, gimme my > $$ back. BestBuy is on the route home. EZ. > > >Also, the EB policy allows each store to make exceptions in their return > >policy for jokers like you. > > I rarely see the same people in there when I return as I do when I buy. > Not like I tell them the real reason I'm returning it after all, cmon > now! Joker? Got a problem with me? I play by *their* rules pal.

You are the reason why all the other stores no longer allow us to return software. Now you are ripping off EB only because they are the only ones left who allow you to return the software. It is important to understand the intent of the EB policy and apparently you just don't get it. At least if you allowed EB to pricematch it, they would be gaining your business and therefore would support their policy. Now why would I have any problem with you? You are no better than those scumbags who sometimes post in here, "Where can I download RT for free?" -Tim

Tim Miser wrote:

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> You are the reason why all the other stores no longer allow us to return > software. Now you are ripping off EB only because they are the only ones > left who allow you to return the software. It is important to understand > the intent of the EB policy and apparently you just don't get it. At least > if you allowed EB to pricematch it, they would be gaining your business and > therefore would support their policy. Now why would I have any problem with > you? You are no better than those scumbags who sometimes post in here, > "Where can I download RT for free?"

*They* choose their pricepoints. The fact they set them so high is what causes people like me to take business elsewhere. Returns are part of their policy. but so are their prices. I'm not ripping anyone off, I'm exercising my free-market rights as a consumer. And you don't see me asking where to find programs for free, do ya?? Didn't think so... Just because I'm not a corporate whore doesn't make me the equivalent of "those scumbags". -- Fester "The United States is not nearly so concerned that its acts be kept secret from its intended victims as it is that the American people not know of them." -?U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark