Rally Trophy - A Blast

Well after watching 3 nights of the Catalunya Rally I just had to pick up Rally Trophy at EB today - have only gone through the "arcade" mode and time trials, but what a hoot. The car differences really stand out, you get a real sense of weight and HP from one to the other. I'm really looking forward to getting into the other Rally modes. Looks like a found a replacement for Mobil One RC. Runs like a charm on my older p3 600, 64m Hec GF2 GTS, 256 ram, with MS sidewinder precision wheel (non FF). Ken

KAP <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> Well after watching 3 nights of the Catalunya Rally I just had to pick up > Rally Trophy at EB today - have only gone through the "arcade" mode and > time trials, but what a hoot. The car differences really stand out, you get > a real sense of weight and HP from one to the other. I'm really looking > forward to getting into the other Rally modes. Looks like a found a > replacement for Mobil One RC. > > Runs like a charm on my older p3 600, 64m Hec GF2 GTS, 256 ram, with MS > sidewinder precision wheel (non FF). > > Ken

I agree wholeheartedly -- great fun! You'll want to check out the RT Relay Hotshoe Competition and the RTRank sites. GREAT way to enjoy some good-natured loffline competition with others (not EVERYONE involved in rankings and hotshoe competitions are fast -- take me for example!). ;-) -- JB

Glad to hear that you like the game. I just bought it myself and so far find it very disappointing. The handling and car movement feels very awkward to me -- almost as if the cars are floating above the track and pivoting around a center axis. I don't have a force feedback controller, but even so, there seems to be very little sense of feeback from the track when driving on different surfaces. I also feel that in turns the cars just don't hook up the way you would expect, and I experience terrible understeer in both front and rear wheel drive cars. I'm also having trouble getting playable frame rates even with all details off at 800x600 resolution with my P3 866 system. And yes, I have installed the patch. Maybe my expectations were just too high after having read so many positive posts in here...or maybe I'm overlooking some basic controller setup issue...but unless I figure out something that dramatically changes the feel of the cars, I don't think this one is staying on my hard drive for long. Itazura "KAP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well after watching 3 nights of the Catalunya Rally I just had to pick up > Rally Trophy at EB today - have only gone through the "arcade" mode and > time trials, but what a hoot. The car differences really stand out, youget

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> a real sense of weight and HP from one to the other. I'm really looking > forward to getting into the other Rally modes. Looks like a found a > replacement for Mobil One RC. > > Runs like a charm on my older p3 600, 64m Hec GF2 GTS, 256 ram, with MS > sidewinder precision wheel (non FF). > > Ken > > >

I was a bit disappointed. To an extent about the physics and the steering, but also about the overall 'feel', the immersion factor. The moment of 'suspense of disbelief' never came for me. But maybe I'd just been expecting too much. Achim "KAP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well after watching 3 nights of the Catalunya Rally I just had to pick up > Rally Trophy at EB today - have only gone through the "arcade" mode and > time trials, but what a hoot. The car differences really stand out, youget

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> a real sense of weight and HP from one to the other. I'm really looking > forward to getting into the other Rally modes. Looks like a found a > replacement for Mobil One RC. > > Runs like a charm on my older p3 600, 64m Hec GF2 GTS, 256 ram, with MS > sidewinder precision wheel (non FF). > > Ken > > >

It is a pig to set the steering up for and perfection is not attainable as controller sensitivity notches are too crude, IMO. But once you do immersion is instant, at least it is for me. I ended up turning down the overal strenght setting in the MOMO properties to about 40% and added 30% centering spring. In the game I have the strength setting to between 25% and 30% and the sensitivity setting one notch from the left. Set up this way even the Abarth doesn't oscillate it's way out of control anymore. -Well, not often, that is... <g>. That said, the physics are easily tripped up but it's good fun to drive the stages. Jan. =--- "Joachim Trensz" wrote...

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> I was a bit disappointed. To an extent about the physics > and the steering, but also about the overall 'feel', the > immersion factor. The moment of 'suspense of disbelief' > never came for me. > > But maybe I'd just been expecting too much. > > Achim

Joachim Trensz wrote: > > I was a bit disappointed. To an extent about the physics and the steering, > but also about the overall 'feel', the immersion factor. The moment of > 'suspense of disbelief' never came for me. > > But maybe I'd just been expecting too much. It's not 'the GPL of rally sims' I was hoping it would be. Gerry

> It's not 'the GPL of rally sims' I was hoping it would be. > > Gerry What do you expect for (your local equivalent of) $35cdn? The better it is, the less likely you are to get board/frustrated and buy another game. Papy's not getting rich from your continued enjoyment of GPL.

Art McEwen wrote: > > > It's not 'the GPL of rally sims' I was hoping it would be. > > > > Gerry > > What do you expect for (your local equivalent of) $35cdn? More than RT has. > The better it > is, the less likely you are to get board/frustrated and buy another game. Define 'better' in that context? > Papy's not getting rich from your continued enjoyment of GPL. That is, indeed, the sad reality. But I keep telling Papy I'd pay £200 for a high definition GPL2 type sim. Flight sims have expensive niche products. Gerry

I think my personal upper limit would be $150.-. Just for the record :-) Achim "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... Art McEwen wrote: > > > It's not 'the GPL of rally sims' I was hoping it would be. > > > > Gerry > > What do you expect for (your local equivalent of) $35cdn? More than RT has. > The better it > is, the less likely you are to get board/frustrated and buy another game. Define 'better' in that context? > Papy's not getting rich from your continued enjoyment of GPL. That is, indeed, the sad reality. But I keep telling Papy I'd pay �200 for a high definition GPL2 type sim. Flight sims have expensive niche products. Gerry

Joachim Trensz wrote: > > I think my personal upper limit would be $150.-. Just for the record :-) Hmmm, my upper limit would be directly proportional to the quality of the product. Just for the record :-) Gerry

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Joachim Trensz wrote: > > > > I think my personal upper limit would be $150.-. Just for the record :-) > > Hmmm, my upper limit would be directly proportional to the quality of > the product. Just for the record :-) > > Gerry

I keep seeing folks say they would pay $500 dollars for a really high quality sim. The flight simmers had that....and I beleive there are more of them than thar are of us...and they couldn't sell it for that price....just not enough racing users to allow for such a product... I'd like a good quality sim that is expandable and has decent online capability with league friendly features...too much to ask for? dave henrie

If you're experiencing massive understeer, you may need to tweak you input.ini file. Check out this thread on the RaceSimCentral site: http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26906 This TRANSFORMED the game for me. -- JB "ss" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<QiVn8.21$[email hidden]>...

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> Glad to hear that you like the game. I just bought it myself and so far > find it very disappointing. The handling and car movement feels very > awkward to me -- almost as if the cars are floating above the track and > pivoting around a center axis. I don't have a force feedback controller, > but even so, there seems to be very little sense of feeback from the track > when driving on different surfaces. I also feel that in turns the cars just > don't hook up the way you would expect, and I experience terrible understeer > in both front and rear wheel drive cars. I'm also having trouble getting > playable frame rates even with all details off at 800x600 resolution with my > P3 866 system. And yes, I have installed the patch. Maybe my expectations > were just too high after having read so many positive posts in here...or > maybe I'm overlooking some basic controller setup issue...but unless I > figure out something that dramatically changes the feel of the cars, I don't > think this one is staying on my hard drive for long. > > Itazura > > > > > "KAP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Well after watching 3 nights of the Catalunya Rally I just had to pick up > > Rally Trophy at EB today - have only gone through the "arcade" mode and > > time trials, but what a hoot. The car differences really stand out, you > get > > a real sense of weight and HP from one to the other. I'm really looking > > forward to getting into the other Rally modes. Looks like a found a > > replacement for Mobil One RC. > > > > Runs like a charm on my older p3 600, 64m Hec GF2 GTS, 256 ram, with MS > > sidewinder precision wheel (non FF). > > > > Ken > > > > > >

Dave Henrie wrote:

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> > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Joachim Trensz wrote: > > > > > > I think my personal upper limit would be $150.-. Just for the record :-) > > > > Hmmm, my upper limit would be directly proportional to the quality of > > the product. Just for the record :-) > > > > Gerry > I keep seeing folks say they would pay $500 dollars for a really high > quality sim. The flight simmers had that....and I beleive there are more of > them than thar are of us...and they couldn't sell it for that price....just > not enough racing users to allow for such a product...

Possibly, Dave, possibly > I'd like a good quality sim that is expandable and has decent online > capability with league friendly features...too much to ask for? What 'league friendly features' did you have in mind, just out of interest? Cheers Gerry

"Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Fl2o8.114031$[email hidden]... > I keep seeing folks say they would pay $500 dollars for a really high > quality sim. The flight simmers had that....and I beleive there are moreof > them than thar are of us...and they couldn't sell it for thatprice....just > not enough racing users to allow for such a product... > I'd like a good quality sim that is expandable and has decent online > capability with league friendly features...too much to ask for? > dave henrie It's a chicken-and-egg problem. I would NEVER pay $500 (or even $150) up-front for a game (sim) unless it had a proven track record and great reviews from people I trust. In other words, most of RAS would have to be raving about it. Problem is, most people probably feel similarly, so who would be the guinea pigs? If the game could somehow *guarantee* to satisfy my "race driver wannabe" urges like GPL does, then I would be willing to pay $500 for it. In the meantime I don't begrudge $50 here or there for games that don't do it for me. Hopefully one day the game will come along that does. In the end I'll spend more than $500, but it's not so noticeable in those little increments.

"Gerry Aitken" > > What 'league friendly features' did you have in mind, just out of > interest? > > Cheers > > Gerry text reports from the race that can be used to both verify placings and keep track of points. I'm kinda disappointed in F1 2001 in this respect, I seem to remember even F1 cs 2k kept better track of the fast laps and such. 2001 only has the end-of-the-race announcer state which driver had the fast lap... I would like a saveable screen that league members can use, and administrators can grab results from(i.e. some sort of text file.) A real stretch would be some ontrack(in-car) device that would allow a race official to throw a yellow and the sim recognize that and display whatever flag system it has. Racing online benefits from a track position indicator like in most of the Papyrus products...most sims do keep track of posistions in the race not actual location on the track...doesn't do a backmarker anygood to see driver XX is 20 seconds back but if the leader has already lapped driver XX the backmarker might not be aware a fast mover is coming up quickly. How's that for starters? dave henrie

Rob Adams wrote: > It's a chicken-and-egg problem. I would NEVER pay $500 (or even $150) > up-front for a game (sim) unless it had a proven track record and great > reviews from people I trust. In other words, most of RAS would have to be > raving about it. Problem is, most people probably feel similarly, so who > would be the guinea pigs? Life's all about taking risks. Gerry

Wow, I'm getting very acceptable frame rates (i.e. better than GPL and F12001) with RT at 1024x768 (nVidia 28.32 drivers, AA at 2x, 64meg Herc GF2 GTS), my ingame graphic settings are: view distance - ~3/4 track detail - max alpha blending - low fog - enable reflections - standard effect detail - low player detail - high opponent detail - very low I know my frame rate was taking a beating with the sun glare initially, but the above settings essentially eliminated that. For me the cars handle in a manor that at least conveys a sense of real world physics; the light high hp cars are twitchy, while the heavier cars are a bit doggie and slow, all cars seem to get quite erratic when driven at their limit (at least my limit perception of their limit). So far my favorite is the Lancia Fulvia - just about the right amount of speed and handling. I'm not a big fan of the Alfa Romeo Giulia GTA at the moment, I find it difficult to keep it on the track. You are right about understeer, I've found more than once that I'm heading straight when I should be turning. However, having said that I'll also admit that it seems to have allot to do with the way a drive the car - the front wheel drive cars seems to oversteer if I screw up and brake harder/later than I should, but than again I would imagine this is the way it should be. While the following statement might garner some hisses from the hard core crowd I have to admit it. For me, most sims RT included, are best driven from a pov outside, above & behind the car, the visual cues you get from the way the car bounces and fish tails about and your "heightened" sense of situational awareness, go a long way in conveying a sense of driving that the in car view significantly diminishes (note: GPL is so far the only sim that "feels" good either way). For me, the additional visual cues create a kind of "perceived" force feedback. Ken On Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:20:31 +0900, "ss" <[email hidden]> wrote: >Glad to hear that you like the game. I just bought it myself and so far >find it very disappointing. The handling and car movement feels very >awkward to me -- <snip>

Thanks JB, I'll have to check it out. Ken On 25 Mar 2002 21:34:30 -0800, [email hidden] (jbodin) wrote: >I agree wholeheartedly -- great fun! You'll want to check out the RT >Relay Hotshoe Competition and the RTRank sites. GREAT way to enjoy >some good-natured loffline competition with others (not EVERYONE >involved in rankings and hotshoe competitions are fast -- take me for >example!).

> Wow, I'm getting very acceptable frame rates (i.e. better than GPL and > F12001) with RT at 1024x768 (nVidia 28.32 drivers, AA at 2x, 64meg HercGF2

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> GTS), my ingame graphic settings are: > > view distance - ~3/4 > track detail - max > alpha blending - low > fog - enable > reflections - standard > effect detail - low > player detail - high > opponent detail - very low > > I know my frame rate was taking a beating with the sun glare initially,

but > the above settings essentially eliminated that. I will try playing with the graphics settings some more, thanks for detailing the options that work on your system. > While the following statement might garner some hisses from the hard core > crowd I have to admit it. For me, most sims RT included, are best driven > from a pov outside, above & behind the car, the visual cues you get from > the way the car bounces and fish tails about and your "heightened" senseof > situational awareness, go a long way in conveying a sense of driving that > the in car view significantly diminishes (note: GPL is so far the only sim > that "feels" good either way). For me, the additional visual cues create a > kind of "perceived" force feedback. I tend to agree with you. I often drive GPL from the external POV because the increased visual cues, though different in kind from the cues one would get in real-world driving, seem to better approximate the quality of situational awareness I would have if I were really there. In RT, however, the external view seems to mute the movement of the car body. The cockpit view is convincing in the way it conveys all of the car's little bounces and bumps, but in the chase camera view, it seems that nothing but the wheels are responding realisitcally to the track, so for me, the 'feeback' is less satisfying than it is from the cockpit. At any rate, the post suggesting that I mess with the input.ini files did help. After tweaking the controller settings, the cars are much more consistent and respond more reliably to inputs. But I still don't ENJOY the way they feel like I did when I first tried GPL or Rally Masters, for instance. I'm going to keep toying with it for a few days. Itazura

Itazura, Good luck, I tried the input.ini tweak and noticed a slight difference - I guess it all boils down to the controller you are using. I'd like to give FF a try, but the last FF wheel I had (Logitech), did not cut it and actually became a bit annoying due to it's "notchy" feel. I dl the Rally Masters demo and thought it was great, I'll have to see if I can locate it somewhere, now that I'm in the rallying mood <g>. Ken On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:36:15 +0900, "ss" <[email hidden]> wrote: >At any rate, the post suggesting that I mess with the input.ini files did >help. After tweaking the controller settings, the cars are much more >consistent and respond more reliably to inputs. But I still don't ENJOY the >way they feel like I did when I first tried GPL or Rally Masters, for >instance. I'm going to keep toying with it for a few days.

>> The better it is, the less likely you are to get board/frustrated and buyanother game. >Define 'better' in that context? Suppose you really enjoyed RT and thought it was the best thing to come along since the joystick, would you be cruising the malls/web-stores looking for another possible game right now? No. It's not in the gaming companies best interests to make something that truely satisfies you (at least not for < $50), because you won't be a potential shopper next month if you're happy with last months purchases. It may be controversial but subscription based pay-per-play games could be the answer. Just like a magazine it's in the vendors interest to keep you interested and keep making the product "better".

> Suppose you really enjoyed RT and thought it was the best thing to come > along since the joystick, would you be cruising the malls/web-storeslooking > for another possible game right now? No. It's not in the gamingcompanies > best interests to make something that truely satisfies you (at least notfor > < $50), because you won't be a potential shopper next month if you'rehappy > with last months purchases. > But you would be out shopping for a different company's products. I think it's silly to suggest that it is not in a developer's best interests to produce quality products. Sure, you could argue that built-in obsolescence is effective as a marketing strategy, or you might argue that it isn't worth the time and money required to make a truly good product when most buyers don't seem to notice the difference, but to suggest that making outright inferior products is good business doesn't make sense to me. If I enjoy a company's games and think they are well and fully developed, I will buy their subsequent releases, plain and simple. And I will buy them even if I am still enjoying the company's previous releases. If I am disappointed with a developer's efforts, I will not buy subsequent releases, however frequently they appear on the shelves. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that is a common sentiment, but I doubt it. Itazura

> But you would be out shopping for a different company's products. At least initially, but when they're all under 3-4 majour umbrella publishers that won't last for long. I swore I wouldn't buy any Microprose products because Grand Prix Manager was suchg a piece of s**t, but I eventually broke down and bought GP2 because it apparrently wasn't. I don't imagine the coders from either shop ever met before the box was given a Microprose cover. > or you might argue that it isn't worth > the time and money required to make a truly good product when most buyers > don't seem to notice the difference, That's just it, it's fairly easy to make "OK" code but it's exponentially harder to make truely great code, and when you do you're not only increasing the time/cost of this version, you're eliminating (or at least delaying) the need for a sequel and the sales it could generate, as well as hurting the sales for your related products. Bad is one thing (it hurts sales) but mediocre is easier.

Art McEwen wrote:

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> > >> The better it is, the less likely you are to get board/frustrated and buy > another game. > > >Define 'better' in that context? > > Suppose you really enjoyed RT and thought it was the best thing to come > along since the joystick, would you be cruising the malls/web-stores looking > for another possible game right now? No. It's not in the gaming companies > best interests to make something that truely satisfies you (at least not for > < $50), because you won't be a potential shopper next month if you're happy > with last months purchases. > > It may be controversial but subscription based pay-per-play games could be > the answer. Just like a magazine it's in the vendors interest to keep you > interested and keep making the product "better".

Ok, I see what you're getting at. It's the old 'ever lasting candle' and 'cold fusion' debate. Gerry

Art McEwen wrote:

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> > > It's not 'the GPL of rally sims' I was hoping it would be. > > > > Gerry > > What do you expect for (your local equivalent of) $35cdn? The better it > is, the less likely you are to get board/frustrated and buy another game. > Papy's not getting rich from your continued enjoyment of GPL.

Well their strategy half worked then, because I DID get board/frustrated, before taking RT back and getting a full refund! Gerry

On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:04:14 +0000, Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote: >Life's all about taking risks. > >Gerry Yeah, just so long as you can change your mind and get your money back three months later, right? :) "But in a way, fear is a big part of racing, because if there was nothing to be frightened of, and no limit, any fool could get into a motor car and racing would not exist as a sport." -- Jim Clark

"Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<785o8.2437$[email hidden]>... > It's a chicken-and-egg problem. I would NEVER pay $500 (or even $150) > up-front for a game (sim) unless it had a proven track record and great > reviews from people I trust. In other words, most of RAS would have to be > raving about it. Problem is, most people probably feel similarly, so who > would be the guinea pigs? If it's developed by Papyrus and covers a form of motorsport I'm interested in, I'd have it preordered months in advance. Jason

"Jeff Vincent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:04:14 +0000, Gerry Aitken > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Life's all about taking risks. > > > >Gerry > > Yeah, just so long as you can change your mind and get your money > back three months later, right? :)

ROTFL!! Dammit, I was taking a drink of Coke when I read that....what a mess!! ;)

Tim Miser wrote:

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> > "Jeff Vincent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:04:14 +0000, Gerry Aitken > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >Life's all about taking risks. > > > > > >Gerry > > > > Yeah, just so long as you can change your mind and get your money > > back three months later, right? :) > > ROTFL!! Dammit, I was taking a drink of Coke when I read that....what a > mess!! > > ;)

You must have a very low humour threshold.

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Tim Miser wrote: > > > > "Jeff Vincent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:04:14 +0000, Gerry Aitken > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > >Life's all about taking risks. > > > > > > > >Gerry > > > > > > Yeah, just so long as you can change your mind and get your money > > > back three months later, right? :) > > > > ROTFL!! Dammit, I was taking a drink of Coke when I read that....what a > > mess!! > > > > ;) > > You must have a very low humour threshold.

Actually, I thought it was quite a nice bit of ironic humour as well. Stephen

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Tim Miser wrote: > > > > "Jeff Vincent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:04:14 +0000, Gerry Aitken > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > >Life's all about taking risks. > > > > > > > >Gerry > > > > > > Yeah, just so long as you can change your mind and get your money > > > back three months later, right? :) > > > > ROTFL!! Dammit, I was taking a drink of Coke when I read that....what a > > mess!! > > > > ;) > > You must have a very low humour threshold.

Nice try but I think you could do better than that.

"Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Tim Miser wrote: > > > > "Jeff Vincent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:04:14 +0000, Gerry Aitken > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > >Life's all about taking risks. > > > > > > > >Gerry > > > > > > Yeah, just so long as you can change your mind and get your money > > > back three months later, right? :) > > > > ROTFL!! Dammit, I was taking a drink of Coke when I read that....what a > > mess!! > > > > ;) > > You must have a very low humour threshold.

No. That was quite funny actually. Kyle

Kyle Roberts wrote:

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> > "Gerry Aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Tim Miser wrote: > > > > > > "Jeff Vincent" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > On Wed, 27 Mar 2002 00:04:14 +0000, Gerry Aitken > > > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > > > > > >Life's all about taking risks. > > > > > > > > > >Gerry > > > > > > > > Yeah, just so long as you can change your mind and get your money > > > > back three months later, right? :) > > > > > > ROTFL!! Dammit, I was taking a drink of Coke when I read that....what a > > > mess!! > > > > > > ;) > > > > You must have a very low humour threshold. > > No. That was quite funny actually. > > Kyle

Tim, Stephen & Kyle Those long winter evenings must just fly by!