N2002: AI quailifying speed and race speed at Bristol (and other tracks)

Last week Jeff Gordon won the pole at Bristol with a 127+ MPH effort. The highest race speeds averaged 117 or 118. Of course, the N2002 AI is nowhere close to this ratio: at 100% AI strength, the fastest N2002 qualifiers were about 118 mph. Then they ran roughly the same speeds during the race! I hate to "sticky up" the track with the track.ini file so that qualifying speeds are roughly the same as real life, because then the AI races at qualifying speeds! I think we need some kind of utility, or a patch, for N2002 to correct this discrepancy. I hope papy is reading this...

I've noticed this too, mainly in N4 though. Last fall, DEJ took the pole at Atlanta and that night in a league event I got the pole and was nearly a 1/10 faster than he ran using "supposedly" the same weather as Atlanta that very day. I have run Bristol in N4 and N2002 and have come no where near 15.0 like JG did (I can run in the 15's, just not a 15 flat). Could it be that temp and cloud cover and wind aren't enough weather factors? Might we need humidity to equalize us with the Cup guys? I know cooler, denser air makes you go faster (makes more HP anyway) and the NR series seems to run whatever temp, cloud cover/no cloud and wind/no wind with no humidity. That and we have 1) A common template (decals only seprate the makes) and 2) Common engines, same horespower. It may be that the differences in teams' engine HP output weigh into the real outcomes on track whereas all NR2002 racers get the same aero and same engine HP as everyone else and it is just an 'average' derived from NASCAR PR on their cars' HP output. I bet the top teams in NASCAR are above average in the HP department, I know the Fords make more than Chebbies (am a Chevy fan), seems the Blue Ovals have had a distinct HP advantage for some time, is the reason that the SB2 came about a few years ago and the SB3 (GEN-III) is already on its way to the teams if not already in use. Ben Sides <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:pgLo8.106024$[email hidden]... > Last week Jeff Gordon won the pole at Bristol with a 127+ MPH effort. The > highest race speeds averaged 117 or 118. Of course, the N2002 AI isnowhere > close to this ratio: at 100% AI strength, the fastest N2002 qualifierswere

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> about 118 mph. Then they ran roughly the same speeds during the race! I > hate to "sticky up" the track with the track.ini file so that qualifying > speeds are roughly the same as real life, because then the AI races at > qualifying speeds! I think we need some kind of utility, or a patch, for > N2002 to correct this discrepancy. I hope papy is reading this... > >

If you want to adjust the qualifying speeds, simply adjust the ai qualifying modifier in the ini file. Brian Oster On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:44:05 GMT, "Ben Sides" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>Last week Jeff Gordon won the pole at Bristol with a 127+ MPH effort. The >highest race speeds averaged 117 or 118. Of course, the N2002 AI is nowhere >close to this ratio: at 100% AI strength, the fastest N2002 qualifiers were >about 118 mph. Then they ran roughly the same speeds during the race! I >hate to "sticky up" the track with the track.ini file so that qualifying >speeds are roughly the same as real life, because then the AI races at >qualifying speeds! I think we need some kind of utility, or a patch, for >N2002 to correct this discrepancy. I hope papy is reading this... >

Brian Oster

Perhaps I'm missing something, but it seems the question is, can YOU qualify with 9-10mph faster laps than you race? Maybe so if you could do the same car tweaks JG and company do in real life. But if such is not available in the game, why would you want to be off the back in every qualifying session and then have the AI running at your level again for the race? How much do your own R and Q laptimes differ? SB PS - OT here but I did notice in the Gamespot F12002 interview that they're putting such gizmos in that one. Smaller radiators, adjustable rev limits, engine heat modeling, etc. So now "qualifying setup" takes on a whole new level... "Ben Sides" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:pgLo8.106024$[email hidden]...

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> Last week Jeff Gordon won the pole at Bristol with a 127+ MPH effort. The > highest race speeds averaged 117 or 118. Of course, the N2002 AI is nowhere > close to this ratio: at 100% AI strength, the fastest N2002 qualifiers were > about 118 mph. Then they ran roughly the same speeds during the race! I > hate to "sticky up" the track with the track.ini file so that qualifying > speeds are roughly the same as real life, because then the AI races at > qualifying speeds! I think we need some kind of utility, or a patch, for > N2002 to correct this discrepancy. I hope papy is reading this... > > >

"Admin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<ErLo8.32216$[email hidden]>... > I have run Bristol in N4 and N2002 and have come no where near 15.0 like JG > did (I can run in the 15's, just not a 15 flat). Looking through the Outlaw results in OSCAR last week I see that Bob Fellenbaum did a 15.224 in an open setup at 70 degrees 0 wind last week. My personal best in the fixed qual setup at 70 degrees 0 wind is 15.6ish, off the pace but not bad for that temperature and a fixed setup. In a good setup at 40 degrees 0 wind I would think that 15.0 isn't very far fetched, and if my memory serves me correctly, the temperature in Bristol the day that Gordon set the qualifying record was colder than the lowest limit available in either sim. That said, I've found the AI at Bristol in every Papy game since N1 is way too easy, in qualifying and race sessions. It's one of the few tracks where I can utterly dominate at 100% AI strength without even modifying the default setup (Pocono and Las Vegas being 2 others). Jason

"Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<gdPo8.124756$[email hidden]>... > PS - OT here but I did notice in the Gamespot F12002 interview that they're putting such gizmos in that one. Smaller radiators, > adjustable rev limits, engine heat modeling, etc. So now "qualifying setup" takes on a whole new level... Wow, if they fix the collision modelling, track modelling, controller setup, and unrealistic braking and aero grip they'll have themselves a sim. Nice to see that engine heat and damage due to abuse is finally being modelled in a modern F1 sim...didn't Indy 500 have that? Jason

"jason moyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<gdPo8.124756$[email hidden]>... > > > PS - OT here but I did notice in the Gamespot F12002 interview thatthey're putting such gizmos in that one. Smaller radiators, > > adjustable rev limits, engine heat modeling, etc. So now "qualifyingsetup" takes on a whole new level...

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> > Wow, if they fix the collision modelling, track modelling, controller > setup, and unrealistic braking and aero grip they'll have themselves a > sim. Nice to see that engine heat and damage due to abuse is finally > being modelled in a modern F1 sim...didn't Indy 500 have that? > > Jason

MGPRS2 had it. Maybe F1RS, don't remember for sure. It would be nice now that Papyrus finally got the tire model set if they would not STILL make all the cars exactly the same in their NASCAR series. Accelerated tire wear and fuel usage would also be nice since they can't seem to figure out how to put in a save game feature. With not having to model wet weather like the F1 sims, you'd think they'd have the time to do these things. AI seems to still be a problem area too from what I read here. :-) David G Fisher

Well, part of the problem with trying to make the differences in the models of stock car sims, is that no one _really_ knows if there is one in actual racing, and if so, to what degree, etc. There's so much bs, politicing, etc. in real arguments, who knows what's true or not. Personally, I don't have a problem with a sim keeping them the same; at the very least, in real life, they're very close anyway. Hell, the Dodge is based on a Taurus template in real life(which is based on a car that doesn't exist<G>). -John "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:qBWo8.112214$[email hidden]...

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> > > It would be nice now that Papyrus finally got the tire model set if they > would not STILL make all the cars exactly the same in their NASCAR series. > Accelerated tire wear and fuel usage would also be nice since they can't > seem to figure out how to put in a save game feature. With not having to > model wet weather like the F1 sims, you'd think they'd have the time to do > these things. AI seems to still be a problem area too from what I read

here. > :-) > > David G Fisher > >

"John Pancoast" Hell, the > Dodge is based on a Taurus template in real life(which is based on a car > that doesn't exist<G>). > > -John The upcomming new Pontiac Grand Prix is already being called a Fodgeiac since Nascar gave them the Taurus Templates to model their car with. Some say the Dodge Intrepid is a Taurus but I think that... <Xfiles mode on> Ford, knowing that Dodge was getting ready to come back to Nascar, probably and rightly figured Nascar would Kiss Dodge behind to make up for the dreadful treatment in the 70's, and give concessions to the new car. So Ford, under the cover of a fake tire problem withSUV's sent industrial spies to STEAL the blueprints for the 2nd generation Intrepid. then they quickly remade the Taurus(remember how quickly the oval rear window disappeared?) into what would become the new Intrepid. Pontiac seeing what Ford had done, but being too late to steal Dodge's car decided the next best thing would be to steal the car that had already stolen from the car. Dodge, since they knew they would be getting preferential treatment from Nascar, stayed Mum. Chevrolet is still waiting for Dale Earnhardt to make a full recovery before it begins another car redesign. <Xfiles mode off> dave henrie

John Pancoast <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Well, part of the problem with trying to make the differences in the > models of stock car sims, is that no one _really_ knows if there is one in > actual racing, and if so, to what degree, etc. > > There's so much bs, politicing, etc. in real arguments, who knows what's > true or not. Personally, I don't have a problem with a sim keeping themthe > same; at the very least, in real life, they're very close anyway. Hell,the > Dodge is based on a Taurus template in real life(which is based on a car > that doesn't exist<G>). > > -John > LOL! and I agree, common templates are fine for our simming AND Ferd and Dodge race against the 2 door GM's in 'sedans'. Go figure...that's why I say let the Tundra into the CTS, if they can basterdize WC to suit companies that don't make the proper car type to race, let a truck run that is offered publicly with a 32valve DOHC engine in it! :)

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<qBWo8.112214> It would be nice now that Papyrus finally got the tire model set if they

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> would not STILL make all the cars exactly the same in their NASCAR series. > Accelerated tire wear and fuel usage would also be nice since they can't > seem to figure out how to put in a save game feature. With not having to > model wet weather like the F1 sims, you'd think they'd have the time to do > these things. AI seems to still be a problem area too from what I read here. > :-) > > David G Fisher

shutup dickhead

That WOULD be cool to see :) -John "Admin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ga0p8.4045$[email hidden]... > > John Pancoast <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Well, part of the problem with trying to make the differences in the > > models of stock car sims, is that no one _really_ knows if there is onein > > actual racing, and if so, to what degree, etc. > > > > There's so much bs, politicing, etc. in real arguments, who knowswhat's

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> > true or not. Personally, I don't have a problem with a sim keeping them > the > > same; at the very least, in real life, they're very close anyway. Hell, > the > > Dodge is based on a Taurus template in real life(which is based on a car > > that doesn't exist<G>). > > > > -John > > > > LOL! and I agree, common templates are fine for our simming AND Ferd and > Dodge race against the 2 door GM's in 'sedans'. Go figure...that's why I

say > let the Tundra into the CTS, if they can basterdize WC to suit companies > that don't make the proper car type to race, let a truck run that isoffered > publicly with a 32valve DOHC engine in it! :) > >

I prefer shithead. Andre can be the dickhead. David G Fisher "The Snowman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > shutup dickhead >

I prefer shithead. Andre can be the***head. David G Fisher

David G Fisher wrote:

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> > I prefer shithead. Andre can be the dickhead. > > David G Fisher > > "The Snowman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > shutup dickhead > >

I agree David, dickhead doesn't really suit you Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

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> I prefer shithead. Andre can be the***head. > David G Fisher > > shutup***head

I agree David,***head doesn't really suit you Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy [link lost in import] [link lost in import] "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> David G Fisher wrote: > > > > I prefer shithead. Andre can be the dickhead. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "The Snowman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > shutup dickhead > > > > > I agree David, dickhead doesn't really suit you

I have a feeling my joke was a little too subtle. Andre was called a dickhead by the same guy in another thread. :-) David G Fisher

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> > I prefer shithead. Andre can be the***head. > > David G Fisher > > > shutup***head > I agree David,***head doesn't really suit you

I have a feeling my joke was a little too subtle. Andre was called a ***head by the same guy in another thread. :-) David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:l66p8.157282$[email hidden]... > > I have a feeling my joke was a little too subtle. Andre was called a > dickhead by the same guy in another thread. :-) > > David G Fisher >No surprise there.....he usually gets called that in EVERY thread :-)

David G Fisher wrote:

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> > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > > > I prefer shithead. Andre can be the dickhead. > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > "The Snowman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > shutup dickhead > > > > > > > > I agree David, dickhead doesn't really suit you > > I have a feeling my joke was a little too subtle. Andre was called a > dickhead by the same guy in another thread. :-)

I love British humor, so subtle is good as far as I'm concerned, just couldn't help getting a cheap shot in, besides, I've honestly thought of you as more of a shithead than a dickhead. so yet again we agree on something, getting to be a habit Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Colin Harris wrote:

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> > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:l66p8.157282$[email hidden]... > > > > I have a feeling my joke was a little too subtle. Andre was called a > > dickhead by the same guy in another thread. :-) > > > > David G Fisher > > > No surprise there.....he usually gets called that in EVERY thread :-)

I wonder why.....:-) Maybe he'll learn to write HTML for something besides IE some day and it will stop ? :-))) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:30:42 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I prefer shithead. Andre can be the dickhead. > >David G Fisher You better make sure you fasten your seatbelts saturday.. :) Andre > >"The Snowman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> shutup dickhead >> >

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 20:30:42 GMT, "David G Fisher" >I prefer shithead. Andre can be the***head. >David G Fisher You better make sure you fasten your seatbelts saturday.. :) Andre >> shutup***head

On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:53:02 GMT, "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote: >No surprise there.....he usually gets called that in EVERY thread :-) Ok, this asks for revenge.. I will see you at the RAS race saturdaynight (that's at 9pm for you) so we can fight this out like MEN! Andre

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:07:19 GMT, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: >Maybe he'll learn to write HTML for something besides IE some day and it >will stop ? :-))) > > >Beers and cheers >(uncle) Goy Nah.. I prefer to be a kukhuvud instead of re-writing all my HTML :-/ Andre

The only thing you haven't figured out yet is really men don't need to fight to resolve differences...only children. -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash Andre Warringa <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Fri, 29 Mar 2002 22:53:02 GMT, "Colin Harris" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >No surprise there.....he usually gets called that in EVERY thread :-) > > Ok, this asks for revenge.. I will see you at the RAS race > saturdaynight (that's at 9pm for you) so we can fight this out like > MEN! > > Andre > >

Goy Larsen wrote:

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> Colin Harris wrote: > >>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >>news:l66p8.157282$[email hidden]... >> >>>I have a feeling my joke was a little too subtle. Andre was called a >>>dickhead by the same guy in another thread. :-) >>> >>>David G Fisher >>> >> >>No surprise there.....he usually gets called that in EVERY thread :-) > > > I wonder why.....:-) > > Maybe he'll learn to write HTML for something besides IE some day and it > will stop ? :-)))

Soon, in order to reach the 35 million strong AOL audience he and others may just have to learn how. :-) http://news.com.com/2100-1023-860710.html -- Fester "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." --Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > David G Fisher wrote: > I love British humor, so subtle is good as far as I'm concerned, just > couldn't help getting a cheap shot in, besides, I've honestly thought of > you as more of a shithead than a dickhead. so yet again we agree on > something, getting to be a habit I have another thing we agree on. I am a HUGE fan of British comedy. David G Fisher

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (The Snowman) writes:

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>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<qBWo8.112214> >It would be nice now that Papyrus finally got the tire model set if they >> would not STILL make all the cars exactly the same in their NASCAR series. >> Accelerated tire wear and fuel usage would also be nice since they can't >> seem to figure out how to put in a save game feature. With not having to >> model wet weather like the F1 sims, you'd think they'd have the time to do >> these things. AI seems to still be a problem area too from what I read >here. >> :-) >> >> David G Fisher > > >shutup dickhead

Dude, he was playing against what people keep saying about Ubisoft... Sheesh, drop a lude(or 20)... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > I prefer shithead. Andre can be the dickhead. > > > > David G Fisher Hey Hey HEY! a little respect here please.. Andre is "MR." Dickhead.... dave henrie

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:07:19 GMT, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >Maybe he'll learn to write HTML for something besides IE some day and it > >will stop ? :-))) > > > > > >Beers and cheers > >(uncle) Goy > > Nah.. I prefer to be a kukhuvud instead of re-writing all my HTML :-/

ROFL, where on earth did you get that translated ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

David G Fisher wrote:

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> > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > David G Fisher wrote: > > I love British humor, so subtle is good as far as I'm concerned, just > > couldn't help getting a cheap shot in, besides, I've honestly thought of > > you as more of a shithead than a dickhead. so yet again we agree on > > something, getting to be a habit > > I have another thing we agree on. I am a HUGE fan of British comedy.

Yes, I seem to remember this from couple of weeks back where I suddenly found myself agreeing with both you and TP within a couple days of each other, gave me a case of Vertigo I can tell you, still can't remember what the humor part was though Monty Python perhaps or maybe Black Adder ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Uncle Fester wrote: > > Soon, in order to reach the 35 million strong AOL audience he and others > may just have to learn how. :-) http://news.com.com/2100-1023-860710.html The question is, do we *really* want to reach the AOL audience ? :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Goy Larsen wrote:

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> Uncle Fester wrote: > >>Soon, in order to reach the 35 million strong AOL audience he and others >>may just have to learn how. :-) http://news.com.com/2100-1023-860710.html > > > The question is, do we *really* want to reach the AOL audience ? :-)

<Crouches under desk for front-row seat to the coming fireworks> -- Fester "There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws." --Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Uncle Fester wrote:

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> > Goy Larsen wrote: > > Uncle Fester wrote: > > > >>Soon, in order to reach the 35 million strong AOL audience he and others > >>may just have to learn how. :-) http://news.com.com/2100-1023-860710.html > > > > > > The question is, do we *really* want to reach the AOL audience ? :-) > > <Crouches under desk for front-row seat to the coming fireworks>

I've got the beer, did you bring Popcorn ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:46:49 GMT, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: >> Nah.. I prefer to be a kukhuvud instead of re-writing all my HTML :-/ > >ROFL, where on earth did you get that translated ? The Alternative Swedish Dictionary: http://www.notam02.no/~hcholm/altlang/ht/Swedish.html :) Andre

In article <TY8p8.12377$[email hidden]>, "Biz" <[email hidden]> writes: >The only thing you haven't figured out yet is really men don't need to fight >to resolve >differences...only children. Ok, I *know* Andre was joking. I'm not so sure if YOU are... Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Uncle Fester wrote: >> >> Soon, in order to reach the 35 million strong AOL audience he and others >> may just have to learn how. :-) http://news.com.com/2100-1023-860710.html > >The question is, do we *really* want to reach the AOL audience ? :-) >

Heyy!!! Geez, no respect...<g> Eldred -- Dale Earnhardt, Sr. R.I.P. 1951-2001 Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett GPLRank - under construction... Never argue with an idiot. He brings you down to his level, then beats you with experience... Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

On 06 Apr 2002 00:19:06 GMT, [email hidden] (EldredP) wrote:

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>In article <TY8p8.12377$[email hidden]>, "Biz" ><[email hidden]> writes: > >>The only thing you haven't figured out yet is really men don't need to fight >>to resolve >>differences...only children. > >Ok, I *know* Andre was joking. I'm not so sure if YOU are... > >Eldred

Never mind Eldred, that's the problem with humour on the Internet :) Andre

"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> David G Fisher wrote: > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > I love British humor, so subtle is good as far as I'm concerned, just > > > couldn't help getting a cheap shot in, besides, I've honestly thought

of

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> > > you as more of a shithead than a dickhead. so yet again we agree on > > > something, getting to be a habit > > > > I have another thing we agree on. I am a HUGE fan of British comedy. > > Yes, I seem to remember this from couple of weeks back where I suddenly > found myself agreeing with both you and TP within a couple days of each > other, gave me a case of Vertigo I can tell you, still can't remember > what the humor part was though > > Monty Python perhaps or maybe Black Adder ?

Both, along with many other British comedies. Between PBS and BBC America I've gotten to be a fan of a lot of them. David G Fisher