Quick question(s)...
Is there a way to determine whether a driver is running a particular
aid(s)?? I run in a league and have some questions about whether a
particular driver is or is not using driver aids during race sessions.
I am not accusing him of cheating, just running totally legal (both in
NR2003 and the league rules) driver aids. MY issue with this comes from
the fact that I DON'T use such aids and whether getting beat by some
one who does, is something that I should address with the league
admins.
I know there is an player.ini file edit to allow the export of extra
info which adds tag info to each player and an "Options" line below the
results, but I don't know how to decipher these lines and/or tags.
Finally, is there a "penalty" for using traction control, stability
control, etc. in NR2003? That is, degraded performance in exchange for
increased control of the car?
Darus wrote:
when the race is setup, you can turn off aids and he won't be able to
use them. Unless there is a cheat for that, but I don't really keep up
on those.
Mike
mls67
TrippBros. Racing
Quoted text (19 lines)
> Quick question(s)... > > Is there a way to determine whether a driver is running a particular > aid(s)?? I run in a league and have some questions about whether a > particular driver is or is not using driver aids during race sessions. > I am not accusing him of cheating, just running totally legal (both in > NR2003 and the league rules) driver aids. MY issue with this comes from > the fact that I DON'T use such aids and whether getting beat by some > one who does, is something that I should address with the league > admins. > > I know there is an player.ini file edit to allow the export of extra > info which adds tag info to each player and an "Options" line below the > results, but I don't know how to decipher these lines and/or tags. > > Finally, is there a "penalty" for using traction control, stability > control, etc. in NR2003? That is, degraded performance in exchange for > increased control of the car? >I know that aids CAN be turned off, but the league allows them. I want
to know if I am being beaten by someone using them.
Thats the MAIN reason why I never run NR2003 anymore. Youre really up
against a wall when half the field are roof riding aids users and each can
fully justify their use in an online race. When I get beat by a guy on the
roof I just feel Ive been cheated and aids users are even worse. Taking
advantage of a weakness in the game is cheating plain and simple.
I never understood how/why Papy could give such an advantage to what was
meant to be basic help for some newb. The SIM aspect should have been given
priority and it was a huge disappointment to me that it wasnt.
Mitch
"Darus" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>I know that aids CAN be turned off, but the league allows them. I want
> to know if I am being beaten by someone using them.
>
The driving view isn't all that important in my eyes, although there
are advantages. Driving in a particular view still requires car control
even if a roof rider can see further ahead, etc. I don't want to sound
like a whiner, but I want to know who's beating me on equal terms and
who's not. If the league allows it, then I have to abide by it. This is
more of an FYI type situation.
Darus,
There are performance penalties for turning on traction control,
anti-lock brakes and stability control. I know of a test using "replay
analyzer" where these where confirmed. The penalties are in top end rpm.
That doesn't mean that the improved control isn't an advantage. When
using these "aids" I find it almost impossible to make a high
performance setup. Also if you turn your aids off and use force feedback
it is easier to actually feel the car to make a competitive setup. In
road racing the additional skill needed when not using aids seems to win
out over using them. However in SW and ST oval racing some think aids
are an advantage. SuperSpeedway racing is always affected by top end rev
penalties.
Roofing riding is not penalized but it is an advantage because of the
improved site lines. Road racing "roof riding" can be an advantage,
however on ovals I don't think it's much of an advantage because I use
no aids and drive in cockpit and win races anyway. I feel roof riding is
cheating but I run with guys anyway cause I like them ... but I remind
them they are roof riders and that roof riding is the way little girls
would drive. Cockpit=SIM Roof Riding=game. I SIM race.
After everything we have talked about here I still believe the biggest
gain comes from not using force feed back, where you don't have to react
to it and cause input steering and scrubbing. However I use force
feedback because I'm looking for everything that can get closer to real
simulation. I'm not interested in playing games.
The biggest penalty of all comes from drinking beer and smoking dope.
;)
Darus wrote:
Quoted text (7 lines)
> The driving view isn't all that important in my eyes, although there > are advantages. Driving in a particular view still requires car control > even if a roof rider can see further ahead, etc. I don't want to sound > like a whiner, but I want to know who's beating me on equal terms and > who's not. If the league allows it, then I have to abide by it. This is > more of an FYI type situation. >The only aid I've ever really used is 1 or 2% steering assistance to get the
figidity out of the wheel. You pay a big price for it though. Every second
you are off the line, it fights you and eats up tires.
1 or 2% ain't bad, but beyond that you're dead meat on long runs.
-Larry
"Niles Anders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:BWmQf.52091$Dh.31295@dukeread04...
Quoted text (41 lines)
> Darus, > > There are performance penalties for turning on traction control, anti-lock > brakes and stability control. I know of a test using "replay analyzer" > where these where confirmed. The penalties are in top end rpm. That > doesn't mean that the improved control isn't an advantage. When using > these "aids" I find it almost impossible to make a high performance setup. > Also if you turn your aids off and use force feedback it is easier to > actually feel the car to make a competitive setup. In road racing the > additional skill needed when not using aids seems to win out over using > them. However in SW and ST oval racing some think aids are an advantage. > SuperSpeedway racing is always affected by top end rev penalties. > > Roofing riding is not penalized but it is an advantage because of the > improved site lines. Road racing "roof riding" can be an advantage, > however on ovals I don't think it's much of an advantage because I use no > aids and drive in cockpit and win races anyway. I feel roof riding is > cheating but I run with guys anyway cause I like them ... but I remind > them they are roof riders and that roof riding is the way little girls > would drive. Cockpit=SIM Roof Riding=game. I SIM race. > > After everything we have talked about here I still believe the biggest > gain comes from not using force feed back, where you don't have to react > to it and cause input steering and scrubbing. However I use force feedback > because I'm looking for everything that can get closer to real simulation. > I'm not interested in playing games. > > The biggest penalty of all comes from drinking beer and smoking dope. > > ;) > > > > Darus wrote: >> The driving view isn't all that important in my eyes, although there >> are advantages. Driving in a particular view still requires car control >> even if a roof rider can see further ahead, etc. I don't want to sound >> like a whiner, but I want to know who's beating me on equal terms and >> who's not. If the league allows it, then I have to abide by it. This is >> more of an FYI type situation. >>I have a friend who uses 70% or greater steering assist, and he can
beat the pants off of everyone I know.
The game has a lot of ways to try to gain a competitive advantage, but
none of them beat basic driving and pitting skills. Take a poor setup
with whatever aids you want, and if you drive and pit well, you will
beat most of the people out there.
Oh, and another thing. I think that NOT using force-feedback is not
properly SIMULATING racing. Why should I feel the bumps in the track
and not you?
It's all a matter of perspective.
Jeez! He must be really good at staying exactly on the games inferred
correct line, otherwise I guarantee you at 70% the tires would be good for 3
laps.
And if he's that good at staying on line, he don't need 70% anyway :)
At 70% you can cook dinner and race at the same time!
-Larry
"Gil" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (8 lines)
>I have a friend who uses 70% or greater steering assist, and he can > beat the pants off of everyone I know. > > The game has a lot of ways to try to gain a competitive advantage, but > none of them beat basic driving and pitting skills. Take a poor setup > with whatever aids you want, and if you drive and pit well, you will > beat most of the people out there. >Generally, I find that the aids do a good job in allowing drivers to
set up the car (and the view) in such a way as to allow a comfortable
drive, but do not influence the cars so much that it will allow a
lesser driver to beat a better driver.
N2003 does such a good job with multiplayer that any shortcoming can be
overlooked by the sheer fun of being able to race against so many
people whenever you feel like connecting to the servers.
The minor points about aids, views, force-feedback, all that other
stuff are insignificant (in my opinion). The game is just a great,
great race simulation, and truly allows drivers that take the time to
set up their cars and practice to consistently beat lesser drivers. I
don't really care what view the guy is using when I am 0.2 seconds
behind them, because I know that if they don't hold their line I am
going to be able to pass them.
Interesting thread, and I would like to hear some other opinions about
this. I personally can't see having steering assist set very high, but
I do leave stability control on simply because I hate it when someone
gets loose, touches my fender and makes my car do a 360.
Every single weakness in the game engine has been fully exploited. AIDs
dont make you faster per se but they do give a distinct advantage. Fuel
savings and tire wear come to mind first. If you use aids you should pay a
speed penalty not gain advantages.
For anyone that wants a FAIR race using driving skills instead of
exploitation skills then NR2003 isnt an option any more.
I went to a LAN event a few years back and it was funny to all of a sudden
see some of the fastest guys day iin and day out were all of a sudden
running in the back of the field at the LAN. Coincidence? I dont think so.
Mitch
"Gil" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (22 lines)
> Generally, I find that the aids do a good job in allowing drivers to > set up the car (and the view) in such a way as to allow a comfortable > drive, but do not influence the cars so much that it will allow a > lesser driver to beat a better driver. > > N2003 does such a good job with multiplayer that any shortcoming can be > overlooked by the sheer fun of being able to race against so many > people whenever you feel like connecting to the servers. > > The minor points about aids, views, force-feedback, all that other > stuff are insignificant (in my opinion). The game is just a great, > great race simulation, and truly allows drivers that take the time to > set up their cars and practice to consistently beat lesser drivers. I > don't really care what view the guy is using when I am 0.2 seconds > behind them, because I know that if they don't hold their line I am > going to be able to pass them. > > Interesting thread, and I would like to hear some other opinions about > this. I personally can't see having steering assist set very high, but > I do leave stability control on simply because I hate it when someone > gets loose, touches my fender and makes my car do a 360. >I have to disagree with you - I think the racing is fair in relation to
driver skills.
