For those of you in Europe,
Is Diesel less expensive than Unleaded Gasoline? If it is, how much less - a little or a lot?
Just out of curiosity, now that Audi has developed a kick ass Diesel engine I am thinking they have a far stronger market for that technology in Europe than here in the States (although I don't think it will be too many more years before we end up going another route ourselves).
Wag
[email hidden] (B Wegner) wrote:
> am thinking they have a far stronger market for that
> technology in Europe than here in the States
Diesel's generally a little cheaper, and diesel engined cars are very
common these days. Nowhere near as common as petrol, but diesel has been
mainstream for a very long time thanks to its (relative) fuel economy. I
think it's fair to say that most ranges of popular car will have a
diesel engine as an option.
We're ahead of you on this purely because of fuel taxation, which might
not be popular, but it's certainly prepared us for peak oil (the point
where global supply can't really keep up with demand) a little better
than the USA.
Andrew McP
B Wegner wrote:
> For those of you in Europe,
>
> Is Diesel less expensive than Unleaded Gasoline? If it is, how much
> less - a little or a lot?
Price per gallon (or litre, actually) is about 15..25% cheaper than
unleaded in continental Europe (Germany, France, Spain, Belgium, The
Netherlands, Luxemburg, Portugal, Italy,...), except for some countries
such as Switzerland (no price difference). The difference used to be
larger (about 40%) but since the sale of Diesel cars has soared, we are
on our way toward equal pricing. I think that this can be traced back to
the refining process were heavy oil fractions are used to make Diesel
and light oil fractions are used to make Unleaded. When the Diesel fleet
exceeds the Unleaded one, Unleaded will probaly be cheaper (actually,
Diesel will be more expensive). And then, there are the taxes (which
account to about 50% of the price at the pump over here!).
Modern high-pressure direct-injection fed turbo-Diesel engines are
inherently very efficient, so the typical Diesel version of a car has a
better mileage than the equivalent petrol version (up to 30%
improvement). And now that most European (VW/Audi, Fiat, Renault) and
Japan (Honda, Toyota, Isuzu) manufacturers do produce decent Diesel
engines, you can even have some driving pleasure in these cars. I know I
do (after having said for years that there was no way I would ever drive
a Diesel).
BTW, the Japanese and Italians are now on their way to squeeze out up to
100HP (76 KW) from a puny 1.3 litre turbo-diesel (take the latest
iteration of the Fiat-designed JTD 1.3 engine, for instance).
In France, Diesel cars currently outnumber petrol ones. Which makes me
wonder if maybe Diesel could be a bad idea, after all ;)
> Just out of curiosity, now that Audi has developed a kick ass Diesel
> engine I am thinking they have a far stronger market for that technology
> in Europe than here in the States (although I don't think it will be too
> many more years before we end up going another route ourselves).
Driving a Diesel-powered car frequently since two years now, I am pretty
sure these cars could be very successfull in the States, as these are
even better adapted to the more relaxed type of driving you have over
there (driving on the torque) rather than the stuggle-for-life driving
style that is often practised here. An additional factor is that GM
actually controls Opel and Isuzu, so the technology should be readily
available to Detroit.
IMHO, a possible drawback of high performance Diesel engines might be
the very fine particules that can be released from the exhaust, which
can penetrate deep in the lungs and might prove to be strong carcinogens
in the long term. That, and the noise which is definitively less sexy
than a screaming Honda VTEC revving 8000 RPM.
Regards,
Mr. S.
The US is full of a bunch of Diesel Weenies. Hopefully that will change soon.
I just don't believe in Hybrids. Not their cost, their long-term reliability/durability, nor do they provide the mileage they are promised to.
Biodiesel and Fuel-Cell is probably where we are headed.
-Larry
"B Wegner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
For those of you in Europe,
Is Diesel less expensive than Unleaded Gasoline? If it is, how much less - a little or a lot?
Just out of curiosity, now that Audi has developed a kick ass Diesel engine I am thinking they have a far stronger market for that technology in Europe than here in the States (although I don't think it will be too many more years before we end up going another route ourselves).
Wag
The reason diesels haven't seen growth in the states is that Diesel is more expensive in most cases. When China & India start consuming more & more unleaded I think you'll see more diesel technology put to use here. In the meantime, it will stay on the shelf until it's economically the smarter choice.
Thanks to everyone for their responses..........
Wag
"Andrew MacPherson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
[email hidden] (B Wegner) wrote:
> am thinking they have a far stronger market for that
> technology in Europe than here in the States
Diesel's generally a little cheaper, and diesel engined cars are very
common these days. Nowhere near as common as petrol, but diesel has been
mainstream for a very long time thanks to its (relative) fuel economy. I
think it's fair to say that most ranges of popular car will have a
diesel engine as an option.
We're ahead of you on this purely because of fuel taxation, which might
not be popular, but it's certainly prepared us for peak oil (the point
where global supply can't really keep up with demand) a little better
than the USA.
Andrew McP
Up until just a couple of years ago diesel was cheaper than regular
unleaded gas in the US, so I don't quite understand you reasoning.
Growth in the last 5 years may have been hampered but what about the
previous 50?
GR
>On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:54:15 -0500, "B Wegner" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>The reason diesels haven't seen growth in the states is that Diesel is more expensive in most cases. When China & India start consuming more & more unleaded I think you'll see more diesel technology put to use here. In the meantime, it will stay on the shelf until it's economically the smarter choice.
>
>Thanks to everyone for their responses..........
The cost of Diesel in the US isn't based on Reality. I'm not sure what it's
based on (greed, I suspect), but it sure isn't reality.
As for the whole Diesels-in-the-US thing, GM didn't help the situation, PR
wise, with their boneheaded attempts at Diesel cars in the mid-late
70's/early 80's. Thanks Oldsmobile for setting us back 1/2 century.
-Larry
"GaryR" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (18 lines)
> Up until just a couple of years ago diesel was cheaper than regular > unleaded gas in the US, so I don't quite understand you reasoning. > Growth in the last 5 years may have been hampered but what about the > previous 50? > > GR > > >>On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 13:54:15 -0500, "B Wegner" >><[email hidden]> wrote: >>The reason diesels haven't seen growth in the states is that Diesel is >>more expensive in most cases. When China & India start consuming more & >>more unleaded I think you'll see more diesel technology put to use here. >>In the meantime, it will stay on the shelf until it's economically the >>smarter choice. >> >>Thanks to everyone for their responses.......... >Larry wrote:
> The cost of Diesel in the US isn't based on Reality. I'm not sure what it's
> based on (greed, I suspect), but it sure isn't reality.
>
> As for the whole Diesels-in-the-US thing, GM didn't help the situation, PR
> wise, with their boneheaded attempts at Diesel cars in the mid-late
> 70's/early 80's. Thanks Oldsmobile for setting us back 1/2 century.
I had one of those, fabulous car. The only problem it ever had was the
fuel pump went out at 150K miles. They replaced it free because of the
bad reputation these cars had.
Don McCorkle
>We're ahead of you on this purely because of fuel taxation, which might not be popular
I thought it was also due to the fact that the way diesel is formulated
over here it's hi sulphur content made it less attractive for car
companies who are trying to meet there overall emissions quotas.
You were _incredibly_ lucky...
-Larry
"Woodie83" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (14 lines)
> Larry wrote: >> The cost of Diesel in the US isn't based on Reality. I'm not sure what >> it's based on (greed, I suspect), but it sure isn't reality. >> >> As for the whole Diesels-in-the-US thing, GM didn't help the situation, >> PR wise, with their boneheaded attempts at Diesel cars in the mid-late >> 70's/early 80's. Thanks Oldsmobile for setting us back 1/2 century. > > I had one of those, fabulous car. The only problem it ever had was the > fuel pump went out at 150K miles. They replaced it free because of the > bad reputation these cars had. > > > Don McCorkle>"B Wegner" wrote
>For those of you in Europe,
>
>Is Diesel less expensive than Unleaded Gasoline? If it is, how much
>less - a little or a lot?
In Scotland, diesel is usually around 2-3 pence per litre more expensive
than unleaded. Up until around two years ago diesel was the cheaper option.
Isnt Deisel pretty far down the carbon cracking chain (refining process)
which in turn leads to much higher profit margins for the oil co's at the
expense of the environment? Kinda like SUV's and Auto Mfgs. SUVs follow a
lower safety standard than a passenger car yet they don;t cost less ;) It's
all about what they think they can get away with which makes YOUR choices
all the more important. Nevermind, I forgot, the most important thing here
is whether a game comes with Starforce, LOL.
Mitch
"RS990" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted text (11 lines)
> >"B Wegner" wrote >>For those of you in Europe, >> >>Is Diesel less expensive than Unleaded Gasoline? If it is, how much >>less - a little or a lot? > > > In Scotland, diesel is usually around 2-3 pence per litre more expensive > than unleaded. Up until around two years ago diesel was the cheaper > option. >LOLOL No kidding. I used to be the Service Manager at the Caddilac/Olds
dealership,
and I'll bet I blew up 40 of those things... They would come in with the
piston hitting the
head.... and to get the customer a new engine without all the extra
visits, we would just
take them up the street in low gear, once a rod came out so hard it
embedded into the
crossover on the frame. The tech went to pull the engine out and the frt
of the car came
off the ground.
Then the injector pump governor nightmare, then the first gen injectors
were junk,
not to mention they were dangerous in busy cities, you could actually
run faster than
they would accelerate. LOL
And that was about the same time as the first gen T200 trannys...
So if the engine didn't start slapping, the tranny would go out.
Larry wrote:
>You were _incredibly_ lucky...
>
>
>
--
Ric Seyler
Online Racing: RicSeyler
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