N2002: Playing online and warping question

I played N2002 online last night. Sometimes cars would disappear from the track for several seconds and then re-appear which is what I expected from the discusions that I have read. But I also encountered a large number of cars that seemed to kind of just jump around in front of me when going through the turns or changing lanes on the straights. I have a DSL connection and good ping times to the server so I don't think it is my connection. It made it very hard to pass people when their car is jerking around, even if it is not moving that far to the left or right it is still annoying. Is this normal? Anything I can do to fix it? Brian Oster

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> I played N2002 online last night. Sometimes cars would disappear from > the track for several seconds and then re-appear which is what I > expected from the discusions that I have read. But I also encountered > a large number of cars that seemed to kind of just jump around in > front of me when going through the turns or changing lanes on the > straights. I have a DSL connection and good ping times to the server > so I don't think it is my connection. It made it very hard to pass > people when their car is jerking around, even if it is not moving that > far to the left or right it is still annoying. Is this normal?

Yup. > Anything I can do to fix it? Nope. No matter how good YOUR connection is, the game can't display the other cars accurately unless THEIR connection is good too. Otherwise it just estimates the position of the other car, updating it as it gets more information. That's what makes the car jump around. When this happens to me I just hang back and wait for the other car to crash or make a mistake big enough for me to get by. Then I do EVERYTHING I can to get away from that car - it's a menace! I would *love* to play on a LAN sometime. It must be amazing to be able to get right up behind the other car without fear of a warp crash.

"Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:v_Fv8.1052$n%[email hidden]... > > I would *love* to play on a LAN sometime. It must be amazing to be able to > get right up behind the other car without fear of a warp crash. I do that all the time with N2002 and I swear I can't remember more than a few crashes caused by warping cars. Occasionally I see a car bouncing around but it's actually pretty rare. I also have raced other games on line for the past five years and to be honest, warp crashes rarely have happened to me. If they are happening to you often, it may be your connection that is actually the problem. David G Fisher

"Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> I played N2002 online last night. Sometimes cars would disappear from > the track for several seconds and then re-appear which is what I > expected from the discusions that I have read. But I also encountered > a large number of cars that seemed to kind of just jump around in > front of me when going through the turns or changing lanes on the > straights. I have a DSL connection and good ping times to the server > so I don't think it is my connection. It made it very hard to pass > people when their car is jerking around, even if it is not moving that > far to the left or right it is still annoying. Is this normal? > Anything I can do to fix it? > > > Brian Oster >

I don't see warping or cars bouncing around too often with my cable modem. If it happened in more than one race or on more than one server then the problem is probably on your end. If you hit cntrl-c, a bar graph will display on the bottom left of your screen and tell you how good your connection is. One is latency, one is quality, and I'm not sure what the "s" stands for. David G Fisher David G Fisher

David is correct; if the field is doing things, most of the time, it's on your end, not theirs. -John "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jyGv8.37886$[email hidden]...

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> > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I played N2002 online last night. Sometimes cars would disappear from > > the track for several seconds and then re-appear which is what I > > expected from the discusions that I have read. But I also encountered > > a large number of cars that seemed to kind of just jump around in > > front of me when going through the turns or changing lanes on the > > straights. I have a DSL connection and good ping times to the server > > so I don't think it is my connection. It made it very hard to pass > > people when their car is jerking around, even if it is not moving that > > far to the left or right it is still annoying. Is this normal? > > Anything I can do to fix it? > > > > > > Brian Oster > > > > I don't see warping or cars bouncing around too often with my cable modem. > If it happened in more than one race or on more than one server then the > problem is probably on your end. > > If you hit cntrl-c, a bar graph will display on the bottom left of your > screen and tell you how good your connection is. One is latency, one is > quality, and I'm not sure what the "s" stands for. > > David G Fisher > > David G Fisher > >

On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:00:57 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:v_Fv8.1052$n%[email hidden]... >> >> I would *love* to play on a LAN sometime. It must be amazing to be able to >> get right up behind the other car without fear of a warp crash. > >I do that all the time with N2002 and I swear I can't remember more than a >few crashes caused by warping cars. Occasionally I see a car bouncing around >but it's actually pretty rare. I also have raced other games on line for the >past five years and to be honest, warp crashes rarely have happened to me. >If they are happening to you often, it may be your connection that is >actually the problem. > >David G Fisher >

Its not so much that they are bouncing around from lane to lane. They just kind of vibrate back and forth and their motion is real jerky. I can usually get by them cleanly but I do have to give them an extra margin for error and it is very distracting. I am used to the AI where I pull right up on the bumper, swing around and go by them door to door and I really don't feal comfortable doing that on-line with the cars vibrating back and forth. It also seems like a very high number of them were doing this, not just 1 or 2. My ping times with dsl have been 85-120 to the server. I don't really have any performance issues off-line. I also play Half-Life on-line and do not have any kinds of connection related problems. It might be my connection, but I never had anyone complain to me, I was not booted off the server for latency and like I said I play Half-Life without any problems... Brian Oster

the "s" stands for skew... One tell-tale sign is if all the cars are disappearing at same time- its you, if there are several cars in front of you, and one is disappearing, its probably not you at that instant. Even the best connections will experience a little warp at times(but they may not see it), anyone tells you they've never warped while playing on-line is lying. The cars moving around jittering is due to sporadic positional data, so depending on whether they have a bad conn to the server or you do, the server has to interpolate the positions based on its sporadic data, the jitters is the corrections being made between interpolated and actual data. Don't get me wrong, the papy games are the best at internet play, but due to the current nature of the internet, it will never be perfect. -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jyGv8.37886$[email hidden]... > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I played N2002 online last night. Sometimes cars would disappear from > > the track for several seconds and then re-appear which is what I > > expected from the discusions that I have read. But I also encountered > > a large number of cars that seemed to kind of just jump around in > > front of me when going through the turns or changing lanes on the > > straights. I have a DSL connection and good ping times to the server > > so I don't think it is my connection. It made it very hard to pass > > people when their car is jerking around, even if it is not moving that > > far to the left or right it is still annoying. Is this normal? > > Anything I can do to fix it? > > > > > > Brian Oster > > > > I don't see warping or cars bouncing around too often with my cable modem. > If it happened in more than one race or on more than one server then the > problem is probably on your end. > > If you hit cntrl-c, a bar graph will display on the bottom left of your > screen and tell you how good your connection is. One is latency, one is > quality, and I'm not sure what the "s" stands for. > > David G Fisher > > David G Fisher > >

Join only races that limit the latency and avoid races that people create using cable or dsl (as compared to more bandwidth) -- Tim White INTRAC Motorsports www.birds-i-view.com/intrac "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I played N2002 online last night. Sometimes cars would disappear from > the track for several seconds and then re-appear which is what I > expected from the discusions that I have read. But I also encountered > a large number of cars that seemed to kind of just jump around in > front of me when going through the turns or changing lanes on the > straights. I have a DSL connection and good ping times to the server > so I don't think it is my connection. It made it very hard to pass > people when their car is jerking around, even if it is not moving that > far to the left or right it is still annoying. Is this normal? > Anything I can do to fix it? > > > Brian Oster

Half-Life, Quake like games online are a completely different animal A half second latency, or warp, will still give you the realistic feel of being shot, blownup, whatever Racing, or flying simulators require a much lower latancy because a half second is a lifetime when your running 200mph door to door Pinging 85-120 on Nascar servers is just fine -- Tim White INTRAC Motorsports www.birds-i-view.com/intrac "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I also play Half-Life on-line and do not > have any kinds of connection related problems. It might be my > connection, but I never had anyone complain to me, I was not booted > off the server for latency and like I said I play Half-Life without > any problems... > > > Brian Oster

The Tell Tell sign that it is someone else that is warping is if you have a line of cars in front of you and only one or two of them are jumping around, you can figure it's their connection. If all the cars were doing the jig then its your connection Macc High Flyin Racin Team http://www.hfrt.koolhost.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Posted via MHOGaming - Your Friendly Gaming Community http://www.mhogaming.com View this thread on MHO: http://www.mhogaming.com/vb/showthread.php?threadid=4348

"Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:00:57 GMT, "David G Fisher" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Its not so much that they are bouncing around from lane to lane. They > just kind of vibrate back and forth and their motion is real jerky. I > can usually get by them cleanly but I do have to give them an extra > margin for error and it is very distracting. I am used to the AI > where I pull right up on the bumper, swing around and go by them door > to door and I really don't feal comfortable doing that on-line with > the cars vibrating back and forth. It also seems like a very high > number of them were doing this, not just 1 or 2.

If it was just one or two then I'd understand, but if it's a high number in most of your races then that's definitely not what I experience. David G Fisher

On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:45:43 GMT, "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>the "s" stands for skew... > >One tell-tale sign is if all the cars are disappearing at same time- its you, if there are several >cars in front of you, and one is disappearing, its probably not you at that instant. >Even the best connections will experience a little warp at times(but they may not see it), anyone >tells you they've never warped while playing on-line is lying. The cars moving around jittering is >due to sporadic positional data, so depending on whether they have a bad conn to the server or you >do, the server has to interpolate the positions based on its sporadic data, the jitters is the >corrections being made between interpolated and actual data. Don't get me wrong, the papy games are >the best at internet play, but due to the current nature of the internet, it will never be perfect.

Well I played again last night and some races were much better (or else I am getting used to the *jittering*). I am pretty sure it was the other connections though, since I never saw the whole field disapear or have the problems. The other night if I had 5 cars in front of me 2 or 3 would be jittering. I have been playing off-line since N4/N2002 first came out so I guess I am just used to the cars driving in a fluid motion and the jittering was distracting. Oh I keep the ctrl-c meter up all the time and my ping bar only once or twice went orange, I did not have anything in my quality bar (is this good or bad?) and the "s" bar would sometimes appear in the top half (what ever that means). Brian Oster

David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:jyGv8.37886$[email hidden]...

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> I don't see warping or cars bouncing around too often with my cable modem. > If it happened in more than one race or on more than one server then the > problem is probably on your end. > > If you hit cntrl-c, a bar graph will display on the bottom left of your > screen and tell you how good your connection is. One is latency, one is > quality, and I'm not sure what the "s" stands for. > > David G Fisher

S is for Skew, indicates the severity and direction of packet loss which is why it is in the middle (and no green line) when good. Above or below the line indicates the direction of packet loss (upstream or downstream).

"Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:45:43 GMT, "Biz" <[email hidden]> > > ... I did not have anything in my quality bar (is > this good or bad?) and the "s" bar would sometimes appear in the top > half (what ever that means). The smaller the bar in each of the three graphs, the better. An empty frame, as you describe for your quality bar, rocks. Under normal circumstances the S bar won't be any more than a few pixels big, and it ends up being a good indicator of how variable the latency is between you and the server. If you find that the S bar grows and grows until all the other cars disappear, and the bar continues to grow until it fills its frame, and then your screen flashes, and then the bar resets and you see the cars again, then that's, well, bad. This is generally an indication that (a) your net connection is quite bad (you have DSL, so that's not likely), or (b) your computer is too slow to run the game effectively (if your frame rate is in the teens or less, that could well be the problem), or (c) the server computer is too slow to run the game effectively (not likely, but ya just never know), or (d) the server's net connection is overloaded. If it's on a cable modem and has more than about 12 or 13 people connected to it, that's probably the problem. The communication meters are described in reasonably gory detail in the readme.txt. Randy

Hi Brian; FWIW, I have seen what you describe exactly. A group of friends and I managed to get some time on a UK server to run some N4 on Friday nights about a year ago. Pings and quality of connection were good, but the cars were wiggling like you describe. We tried a few races on it - but couldn't run close. We found another server - similar pings and quality - and ran with no problems. I'd be interested in what's going on as well. Regards, Willard VanderPloeg Ontario Canada Brian Oster <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:45:43 GMT, "Biz" <[email hidden]> > wrote: > >>the "s" stands for skew... >> >>One tell-tale sign is if all the cars are disappearing at same time- >>its you, if there are several cars in front of you, and one is >>disappearing, its probably not you at that instant. Even the best >>connections will experience a little warp at times(but they may not >>see it), anyone tells you they've never warped while playing on-line >>is lying. The cars moving around jittering is due to sporadic >>positional data, so depending on whether they have a bad conn to the >>server or you do, the server has to interpolate the positions based on >>its sporadic data, the jitters is the corrections being made between >>interpolated and actual data. Don't get me wrong, the papy games are >>the best at internet play, but due to the current nature of the >>internet, it will never be perfect. > > Well I played again last night and some races were much better (or > else I am getting used to the *jittering*). I am pretty sure it was > the other connections though, since I never saw the whole field > disapear or have the problems. The other night if I had 5 cars in > front of me 2 or 3 would be jittering. I have been playing off-line > since N4/N2002 first came out so I guess I am just used to the cars > driving in a fluid motion and the jittering was distracting. > > Oh I keep the ctrl-c meter up all the time and my ping bar only once > or twice went orange, I did not have anything in my quality bar (is > this good or bad?) and the "s" bar would sometimes appear in the top > half (what ever that means). > > > Brian Oster >

On Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:43:14 -0400, "Randy Cassidy" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >"Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message >news:[email hidden]... >> On Thu, 18 Apr 2002 21:45:43 GMT, "Biz" <[email hidden]> >> >> ... I did not have anything in my quality bar (is >> this good or bad?) and the "s" bar would sometimes appear in the top >> half (what ever that means). > >The smaller the bar in each of the three graphs, the better. An empty >frame, as you describe for your quality bar, rocks. > >Under normal circumstances the S bar won't be any more than a few pixels >big, and it ends up being a good indicator of how variable the latency is >between you and the server. If you find that the S bar grows and grows >until all the other cars disappear, and the bar continues to grow until it >fills its frame, and then your screen flashes, and then the bar resets and >you see the cars again, then that's, well, bad. This is generally an >indication that >(a) your net connection is quite bad (you have DSL, so that's not likely), >or >(b) your computer is too slow to run the game effectively (if your frame >rate is in the teens or less, that could well be the problem), or >(c) the server computer is too slow to run the game effectively (not likely, >but ya just never know), or >(d) the server's net connection is overloaded. If it's on a cable modem and >has more than about 12 or 13 people connected to it, that's probably the >problem. > >The communication meters are described in reasonably gory detail in the >readme.txt.

Readme file??? Next your going to tell me to read the manual ;). Seriously, thanks for the great explanation. I have been having a lot more luck by being more selective on the servers I play on. When I play on Papy's dedicated and open servers I do not have any where near the problems. Still have some problems with some cars, but I assume those must be people connecting via modem. Guess I will have to join a league or something... Brian Oster

when i try to enter a multplayer race online (with seirra online) I can't browse any servers. I get the message WS_timeout authentication failed. I have under configure find network addresses a diffrent way. I am on a DSL internet connect. Thanks in advance dave "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<ogHv8.386612$[email hidden]>...

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> Join only races that limit the latency and avoid races that people create > using cable or dsl (as compared to more bandwidth) > > -- > Tim White > INTRAC Motorsports > www.birds-i-view.com/intrac > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I played N2002 online last night. Sometimes cars would disappear from > > the track for several seconds and then re-appear which is what I > > expected from the discusions that I have read. But I also encountered > > a large number of cars that seemed to kind of just jump around in > > front of me when going through the turns or changing lanes on the > > straights. I have a DSL connection and good ping times to the server > > so I don't think it is my connection. It made it very hard to pass > > people when their car is jerking around, even if it is not moving that > > far to the left or right it is still annoying. Is this normal? > > Anything I can do to fix it? > > > > > > Brian Oster

Dave; Do you have an IP listed for yourself, showing on the mp screen ? -John "David Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> when i try to enter a multplayer race online (with seirra online) I > can't browse any servers. I get the message WS_timeout authentication > failed. I have under configure find network addresses a diffrent way. > I am on a DSL internet connect. > > > Thanks in advance > > dave > > "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<ogHv8.386612$[email hidden]>... > > Join only races that limit the latency and avoid races that peoplecreate

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> > using cable or dsl (as compared to more bandwidth) > > > > -- > > Tim White > > INTRAC Motorsports > > www.birds-i-view.com/intrac > > > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > I played N2002 online last night. Sometimes cars would disappear from > > > the track for several seconds and then re-appear which is what I > > > expected from the discusions that I have read. But I also encountered > > > a large number of cars that seemed to kind of just jump around in > > > front of me when going through the turns or changing lanes on the > > > straights. I have a DSL connection and good ping times to the server > > > so I don't think it is my connection. It made it very hard to pass > > > people when their car is jerking around, even if it is not moving that > > > far to the left or right it is still annoying. Is this normal? > > > Anything I can do to fix it? > > > > > > > > > Brian Oster

yes my i.p. is listed dave "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

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> Dave; > Do you have an IP listed for yourself, showing on the mp screen ? > > -John > > > "David Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > when i try to enter a multplayer race online (with seirra online) I > > can't browse any servers. I get the message WS_timeout authentication > > failed. I have under configure find network addresses a diffrent way. > > I am on a DSL internet connect. > > > > > > Thanks in advance > > > > dave > > > > "Tim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:<ogHv8.386612$[email hidden]>... > > > Join only races that limit the latency and avoid races that people > create > > > using cable or dsl (as compared to more bandwidth) > > > > > > -- > > > Tim White > > > INTRAC Motorsports > > > www.birds-i-view.com/intrac > > > > > > "Brian Oster" <bgoster@*remove_to_email*swbell.net> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > I played N2002 online last night. Sometimes cars would disappear from > > > > the track for several seconds and then re-appear which is what I > > > > expected from the discusions that I have read. But I also encountered > > > > a large number of cars that seemed to kind of just jump around in > > > > front of me when going through the turns or changing lanes on the > > > > straights. I have a DSL connection and good ping times to the server > > > > so I don't think it is my connection. It made it very hard to pass > > > > people when their car is jerking around, even if it is not moving that > > > > far to the left or right it is still annoying. Is this normal? > > > > Anything I can do to fix it? > > > > > > > > > > > > Brian Oster