LPI Farce

LPI = Most Meaningless Statistic on Sierra This is how it works in reality; race a lot on super speedways and you get a GOOD LPI. Participate in races and on road courses and short tracks and you get a BAAAAD LPI. If you race at Bristol or Martinsville or Sears or Watkins Glen you will, by necessity, be involved in beaucoup incidents. I don't care how prudent you are. Race at Daytona, using your KEYBOARD, and you'll survive just fine. Therefore do we need to segregate LPI ratings by track type? Yea or nay.......

Actually I get taken out more at SS than any other type of track. Thats why I rarely run those boring accident prone monstrosities. IMO, the way to a better LPI is to run longer races away from the papy servers, and with guys you know and trust...On so many of the st races, they use your rear bumper as a brake instead of their left foot. I have had very few incidents at the RC, in fact some of the best traces I have been in were on the RC tracks... -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash P.C. Oxford <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c_nw8.39598$[email hidden]... > LPI = Most Meaningless Statistic on Sierra > > This is how it works in reality; race a lot on super speedways and you get a > GOOD LPI. > Participate in races and on road courses and short tracks and you get a > BAAAAD LPI. > > If you race at Bristol or Martinsville or Sears or Watkins Glen you will, by > necessity, be involved in beaucoup incidents. I don't care how prudent you > are. Race at Daytona, using your KEYBOARD, and you'll survive just fine. > > Therefore do we need to segregate LPI ratings by track type? Yea or > nay....... > > > > >

Is there a website out there somewhere that has LPI info on real race drivers?? It doesnt matter what form of racing, just ones that are closed circuit tracks that require lap counts. Would be interesting to see what the "industry average LPI" would be.

I cant remember the site but NASCAR drivers have a lpi based on the laps they run IE: instead of a 50 lpi, they have like a 95% - 98% lpi (I hear most of the front runners are at 98%)

I wouldn't say it has anything to do with the tracks, but instead with who you race. With pick up races at sierra.com I was at a 20 lpi. After running in the RASCAR races I'm up to 30. If I had just run in RASCAR, my LPI would probably be about 200. I'm not exaggerating either. For example, I just ran two races on Sat. and didn't have one incident in about 160 laps. Most of our races have been on short tracks too, including Bristol, Sears, Dover, Rockingham, Lowes, and Phoenix. David G Fisher "P.C. Oxford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c_nw8.39598$[email hidden]... > LPI = Most Meaningless Statistic on Sierra > > This is how it works in reality; race a lot on super speedways and you geta > GOOD LPI. > Participate in races and on road courses and short tracks and you get a > BAAAAD LPI. > > If you race at Bristol or Martinsville or Sears or Watkins Glen you will,by > necessity, be involved in beaucoup incidents. I don't care how prudentyou

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> are. Race at Daytona, using your KEYBOARD, and you'll survive just fine. > > Therefore do we need to segregate LPI ratings by track type? Yea or > nay....... > > > > > >

"David G Fisher" wrote

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> I wouldn't say it has anything to do with the tracks, but instead with who > you race. With pick up races at sierra.com I was at a 20 lpi. After running > in the RASCAR races I'm up to 30. If I had just run in RASCAR, my LPI would > probably be about 200. I'm not exaggerating either. For example, I just ran > two races on Sat. and didn't have one incident in about 160 laps. Most of > our races have been on short tracks too, including Bristol, Sears, Dover, > Rockingham, Lowes, and Phoenix.

Agree - I have only raced in about 10 on line races, 3 of which were RASCAR. If it hadn't been for the RASCAR experience I would have given up N2002 online the other evening where I git hit from behind at the startline of three races in a row (and yes I was right behind the car in front!). My lpi is around 37 thanks to the RASCAR races - as a rookie at the wrong end of the pack where pick up races can get ugly! Tony

"Tony Rickard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:htww8.3739$[email hidden]... > "David G Fisher" wrote > > > I wouldn't say it has anything to do with the tracks, but instead withwho > > you race. With pick up races at sierra.com I was at a 20 lpi. Afterrunning > > in the RASCAR races I'm up to 30. If I had just run in RASCAR, my LPIwould > > probably be about 200. I'm not exaggerating either. For example, I justran > > two races on Sat. and didn't have one incident in about 160 laps. Mostof > > our races have been on short tracks too, including Bristol, Sears,Dover, > > Rockingham, Lowes, and Phoenix. > > Agree - I have only raced in about 10 on line races, 3 of which wereRASCAR. If > it hadn't been for the RASCAR experience I would have given up N2002online the > other evening where I git hit from behind at the startline of three racesin a > row (and yes I was right behind the car in front!). > > My lpi is around 37 thanks to the RASCAR races - as a rookie at the wrongend of > the pack where pick up races can get ugly! > > Tony It's like two different worlds. My LPI suffers from far too many Daytona pickup races I jumped into in the weeks after getting the sim and before RASCAR began. I think I've only had four incidents in the 9 RASCAR races I've been in. The racing in RASCAR has been EXTREMELY clean. I'm a little proud to say that only one was my fault (incident with Mitch on a restart at Dover). David G Fisher

The lpi for me is already today the most important indicator for how a driver performs. I agree with your suggestion that it would be worth considering to 'qualify' the lpi according to on which track or track type it was achieved (after all staying out of trouble at Bristol would get you more lpi than doing the same at Sears), but I don't find it an absolute necessity. The lpi can already be qualified to an extent by looking at the lapcounts etc. (Ctrl-Shift), and anyway, if somebody knows how to stay out of trouble it'll always show in the lpi, even iff perhaps not to the last digit behing the decimal point. I run RC's most of the time, and although I still use the same ID that I was using in the early days of N4 (when there was almost no race without an intentional wrecker in it, guys that really hunted for the leader for several laps in a row etc.), and despite the fact that I have used this ID on Papy RC and ST servers in N2002, the lpi of that ID is a little over 80 right now. It's in the hands of the driver to keep his lpi high. The above ID has a ranking of 4 on RC's and 5 on SW's btw. I have another ID used only just recently, almost exclusively on Papy servers which has a 5 on RC's, but still an lpi of around 50 (almost all of the accidents were T1 accidents where I simply got crashed out from behind). You are right that the ST's are probably more dangerous tracks in terms of getting crashed out by someone else. On the RC's, it usually T1 but mainly on Papy servers - on other servers this seems to be less of a problem. But accidents happen on the SS just like anywhere else. If the existence of such a thing like an lpi gives only 50% of the drivers an incentive and motivation to drive cleaner and safer, that already makes it a very valuable parameter. IMO the lpi is not only the most important indicator recognizing clean, realistic drivers, it's also working quite well even today. Achim "P.C. Oxford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:c_nw8.39598$[email hidden]... > LPI = Most Meaningless Statistic on Sierra > > This is how it works in reality; race a lot on super speedways and you geta > GOOD LPI. > Participate in races and on road courses and short tracks and you get a > BAAAAD LPI. > > If you race at Bristol or Martinsville or Sears or Watkins Glen you will,by > necessity, be involved in beaucoup incidents. I don't care how prudentyou

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> are. Race at Daytona, using your KEYBOARD, and you'll survive just fine. > > Therefore do we need to segregate LPI ratings by track type? Yea or > nay....... > > > > >

Joachim Trensz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a9u3ln$68mkd$[email hidden]... > The lpi for me is already today the most important indicator for how a > driver performs. ><SNIP> False. You get *awarded* IC's when you get into a wreck that someone else started just as if you had started the wreck yourself. Bad way for LPI to work, it should only include wrecks that you cause, not get swept into...You should not judge me by a number that is representitive of other people's mistakes as well as my own.

If goven a choice LPI is the only ranking I'd *keep* Such a great shame Papyrus never keept the "minimum-LPI-to-join-race" criteria we had on TEN. -- ed_ "P.C. Oxford" mutte > LPI = Most Meaningless Statistic on Sierra > > This is how it works in reality; race a lot on super speedways and you get a > GOOD LPI. > Participate in races and on road courses and short tracks and you get a > BAAAAD LPI.

FYI that feature will be included in the upcoming 1.1 patch. - Eric "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:7CDw8.3529$[email hidden]... > If goven a choice LPI is the only ranking I'd *keep* > > Such a great shame Papyrus never keept the "minimum-LPI-to-join-race" > criteria we had on TEN.

"Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a9v557$nm3$[email hidden]... > FYI that feature will be included in the upcoming 1.1 patch. > > - Eric WOW! A double wammy! First they are adding a feature not seen in years...and....they actually announced one of the items they are including AND(wow a TRIPLE WHAMMY!!!) they are confirming a patch.... Thanks Eric...Please forgive my post..I'm pleased you guys are still digging. dh

YES YES YES!!! Finally!!!! Thank you sooooooooooooooooooooooo much Papyrus!!!!! (we're not worthy etc.) -- ed_ "Eric Busch" reported (to my joy): > FYI that feature will be included in the upcoming 1.1 patch. > "Ed Solheim" said: > > Such a great shame Papyrus never keept the "minimum-LPI-to-join-race" > > criteria we had on TEN.

BTW Eric / Papy, Would some kind of filtering-system of the race list be too much to ask for? (so we could choose what types of races it should display - al'a 'UT' and 'RTCW' - it would be of great help IMHO...) -- ed_ "Eric Busch" said: > FYI that feature will be included in the upcoming 1.1 patch. > > - Eric >

That's something that was very high on my personal wish list even going back to N4, but unfortunately it didn't make the cut this time around either. - Eric "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YgFw8.3593$[email hidden]... > Would some kind of filtering-system of the race list be too much toask for? > (so we could choose what types of races it should display - al'a 'UT'and > 'RTCW' - it would be of great help IMHO...)

Part of the art of racing is to stay out of trouble, both the self induced flavour, and that created by others. The lpi shows our overall capability to race clean, and to get to the s/f line in one piece. Achim "Admin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fWCw8.72421$[email hidden]...

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> > Joachim Trensz <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:a9u3ln$68mkd$[email hidden]... > > The lpi for me is already today the most important indicator for how a > > driver performs. > > > <SNIP> > > False. You get *awarded* IC's when you get into a wreck that someone else > started just as if you had started the wreck yourself. Bad way for LPI to > work, it should only include wrecks that you cause, not get swept

into...You > should not judge me by a number that is representitive of other people's > mistakes as well as my own. > >

By the sound or "your voice" I get a feeling the patch is very immenent (sp?) :-) Big question now I guess is, do we have to wati for N2003 or GPL2 to get filtering of the racelist..? ( - I know, I know..... ) -- ed_ "Eric Busch" said: > That's something that was very high on my personal wish list even going > back to N4, but unfortunately it didn't make the cut this time around > either. > > - Eric

By filtering I assume you are referring to filtering arcade vs. simulation mode races? -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash Ed Solheim <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YgFw8.3593$[email hidden]... > BTW Eric / Papy, > > Would some kind of filtering-system of the race list be too much to ask for? > (so we could choose what types of races it should display - al'a 'UT' and > 'RTCW' - it would be of great help IMHO...) > > -- > ed_ > > "Eric Busch" said: > > > FYI that feature will be included in the upcoming 1.1 patch. > > > > - Eric > > > >

"Biz" asked: > By filtering I assume you are referring to filtering arcade vs. simulationmode races? Ideally it would be possible to filter the race list by multiple choices... So it could be set to *avoid* displaying races that are: - full - empty - passwordprotected - held on dedicated/non-dedicated server - 'Arcade' - 'Simulation' - use yellows - use fixed setups - limit view to in cockpit - use full pacelap - higher / lower than a certain skill level - require a specific LPI - held on a certian *type* of track (SS, SW, RC, ST) etc. etc. - or any combination of those listed above. The point of this being that if for example I'm looking for a race on a road-course, I wont have to look thru a list of 200 full/empty superspeedway races. All the filtering will take place on the clients computers so there will be no more 'stress' on race-list computers or hosts then it is allready. -- ed_

That's good news Eric :-) Achim "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:a9v557$nm3$[email hidden]... > FYI that feature will be included in the upcoming 1.1 patch.

I suggested this to one of the Papy guys when they were online one time(i forgot his name), but he was convinced it wasnt necessary, and that sorting them was good enough. :-( "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:edIw8.3612$[email hidden]... > "Biz" asked: > > By filtering I assume you are referring to filtering arcade vs.simulation > mode races? > > Ideally it would be possible to filter the race list by multiplechoices...

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> So it could be set to *avoid* displaying races that are: > - full > - empty > - passwordprotected > - held on dedicated/non-dedicated server > - 'Arcade' > - 'Simulation' > - use yellows > - use fixed setups > - limit view to in cockpit > - use full pacelap > - higher / lower than a certain skill level > - require a specific LPI > - held on a certian *type* of track (SS, SW, RC, ST) etc. etc. > > - or any combination of those listed above. > > The point of this being that if for example I'm looking for a race on a > road-course, I wont have to look thru a list of 200 full/empty

superspeedway > races. > > All the filtering will take place on the clients computers so there willbe

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> no more 'stress' on race-list computers or hosts then it is allready. > > -- > ed_ > > >

I know you can *sort* the list Joachim - but thats not what I'm after - I want the unwanted entries to be removed! the sorting kind of works - but it's miles from perfect imo. -- ed_ "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa0884$6mtdl$[email hidden]... > Hi Ed, > > quite a bit of this you can already do by simply sorting the racelist on > Sierra.com (click on the column header). Not perfect, but good enough to get > the job done. > > Achim > >

Hi Ed, quite a bit of this you can already do by simply sorting the racelist on Sierra.com (click on the column header). Not perfect, but good enough to get the job done. Achim

It's far beyond perfect, having to sort through that mess is flat out dumb, a filter should have been the first thing they came up with, its common sense. "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa0884$6mtdl$[email hidden]... > Hi Ed, > > quite a bit of this you can already do by simply sorting the racelist on > Sierra.com (click on the column header). Not perfect, but good enough toget > the job done. > > Achim > >

I know you can *sort* the list Joachim, but thats not what I'm after - I want the unwanted entries to be removed! The sorting *kind of* works - but it's miles from perfect imo. -- ed_ "Joachim Trensz" said: > Hi Ed, > > quite a bit of this you can already do by simply sorting the racelist on > Sierra.com (click on the column header). Not perfect, but good enough to get > the job done. > > Achim > >

Hey what do you think Ed - this is Nascar, not F1 ;-) Achim "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:3cc3af66$[email hidden]... > I know you can *sort* the list Joachim - but thats not what I'm after -I > want the unwanted entries to be removed! > > the sorting kind of works - but it's miles from perfect imo.

Yes Ed, you said that before <g,d&r> ;-) Achim "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LsVw8.87$O%[email hidden]... > I know you can *sort* the list Joachim, but thats not what I'm after - I > want the unwanted entries to be removed! > > The sorting *kind of* works - but it's miles from perfect imo.

Okei... now you lost me 'Achim.. What does this got to do with F1?? -- ed_ "Joachim Trensz" said: > Hey what do you think Ed - this is Nascar, not F1 ;-) > > "Ed Solheim" wrote: > > I know you can *sort* the list Joachim - but thats not what I'm after - > > I want the unwanted entries to be removed! > > > > the sorting kind of works - but it's miles from perfect imo.

Sry... thought one of my newsservers had gone pants... -- ed_ (psst! whats with the "d&r" ?) "Joachim Trensz" said: > Yes Ed, you said that before <g,d&r> ;-) > > Achim

Just a friendly joke on my part Ed - referring generalisingly to the sometimes purported reputations of Nascar and F1, with F1 being the champagne and luxury league where money isn't an issue, and Nascar being the racing for regular folks where the heart matters more than perfection :-) Achim "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RW5x8.4365$[email hidden]... > Okei... now you lost me 'Achim.. > What does this got to do with F1??...

d&r = 'ducking and running' :-) Achim "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:RW5x8.4366$[email hidden]...

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> Sry... thought one of my newsservers had gone pants... > > -- > ed_ > (psst! whats with the "d&r" ?) > > "Joachim Trensz" said: > > > Yes Ed, you said that before <g,d&r> ;-) > > > > Achim > > >