N2002 Drafting Accurate?

After watching the Talladega race yesterday I have questions as to how accurate the drafting is on the SS tracks. Earnhardt was able to hold off and even pull away slightly from an entire field of cars all locked together in one tight group. He was even stepping out of the draft and yet other cars who were locked tight together in their own line couldn't pass him. In N2002, you can suck in and blow by the lead car very easily while drafting with just one or two other cars, let alone a huge field, especially if the lead car gets out of the draft even just a bit. Also, the real drivers were going three wide around the entire track lap after lap with little change in order. If I am in the middle in N2002, it's like I get sling shotted forward and past the inside and outside cars. So much so that I have to use a decent amount of brake to stay under control if there are cars in front of me. Something definitely seems wrong to me. Am I the only one who noticed this? David G Fisher

Hi David. Yeah, I noticed this too, but I think it has more to do with the fact that in real life all of the cars are slightly different from each other, where as in the game all of the cars are identical, so none of us has any advantage over our competitors. Junior had a better car and the field behind him just didn't have what it needed to get past him. Also near the end of the race he had Michael Waltrip doing an incredible amount of blocking to help him out. Am I the only one that thought it odd that Michael was able to go from 26th to second in a matter of a few laps and then just stayed there? On a number of occasions I watched him come flying up on Juniors bumper at a much greater rate of speed and could easily have passed him, but chose not to. It seemed obvious to me that Michael had what it takes to get the job done, but for whatever reason stayed where he was. Team orders perhaps? Who knows. But the one thing that really struck me as odd was when DW was interviewing Michael during the red flag stop near the end of the race. Michael said that he felt confident that he could win the race, but the tone of his voice told another story. He sounded like he had just lost his best friend. Instead of being jubilant and excited about his prospects of winning, he certainly didn't sound that way. But then again it could have been fatigue and nothing more. Again, who knows. Anyone else notice these things? -- See ya in the pits, Dean I have a terrible memory. In fact my memory's so bad I can't remember how long it's been since I've forgotten anything. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kvRw8.25791$[email hidden]... > After watching the Talladega race yesterday I have questions as to how > accurate the drafting is on the SS tracks. > > Earnhardt was able to hold off and even pull away slightly from an entire > field of cars all locked together in one tight group. He was even stepping > out of the draft and yet other cars who were locked tight together in their > own line couldn't pass him. In N2002, you can suck in and blow by the lead > car very easily while drafting with just one or two other cars, let alone a > huge field, especially if the lead car gets out of the draft even just a > bit. > > Also, the real drivers were going three wide around the entire track lap > after lap with little change in order. If I am in the middle in N2002, it's > like I get sling shotted forward and past the inside and outside cars. So > much so that I have to use a decent amount of brake to stay under control if > there are cars in front of me. > > Something definitely seems wrong to me. Am I the only one who noticed this? > > David G Fisher > > > >

"DTP" . But the one thing that really struck me as odd > was when DW was interviewing Michael during the red flag stop near the end > of the race. Michael said that he felt confident that he could win therace, > but the tone of his voice told another story. He sounded like he had just > lost his best friend. Instead of being jubilant and excited about his > prospects of winning, he certainly didn't sound that way. But then againit > could have been fatigue and nothing more. Again, who knows. Anyone else > notice these things? > -- > See ya in the pits, > Dean Teresa Earnhardt runs DEI now, Dale Jr is NOT her son, but a step-son, perhaps the "boss" is making sure the family dynamics don't get too ugly. And that means family friend's like Waltrip block just like Dale Sr. did last year. dave henrie dave henrie

Keep in mind that NR2002 was based off of last years version of the ever changing aero rules. Last year they had the wicker bill and roof deflector to open up a much larger hole in the air for the car behind to suck up. MadDAWG

Maybe, but I'd be VERY surprised if this was so. Most of the time, most of the drives don't want to lead unless they have to, because they'll just get shuffled back sooner or later. That, and the fact that these races are chess matches more than anything; being in the right place, at the right time, etc. In terms of Jr.'s lead, etc., the cars behind never stayed in a single-line long enough to catch him; they kept racing each other instead, and that's guaranteed to not catch anyone. Plus, Jr. drives a DEI car; no one's better at building SS cars :) -John "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:x9Uw8.48516$V44.864@rwcrnsc53... > > "DTP" . But the one thing that really struck me as odd > > was when DW was interviewing Michael during the red flag stop near theend > > of the race. Michael said that he felt confident that he could win the > race, > > but the tone of his voice told another story. He sounded like he hadjust

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> > lost his best friend. Instead of being jubilant and excited about his > > prospects of winning, he certainly didn't sound that way. But then again > it > > could have been fatigue and nothing more. Again, who knows. Anyone else > > notice these things? > > -- > > See ya in the pits, > > Dean > Teresa Earnhardt runs DEI now, Dale Jr is NOT her son, but a

step-son,

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> perhaps the "boss" is making sure the family dynamics don't get too ugly. > And that means family friend's like Waltrip block just like Dale Sr. did > last year. > dave henrie > dave henrie > >

As NASCAR changes rules quite often with the aero packages, the dynamics of the draft also change. I recall one race recently where running in the middle worked well, but now it no longer does. With all cars being equal, certainly 2 that are in line can get by 1 single car. But in reality yesterday Jr's car was very strong. Michael COULD have passed him but then as they would then be side-by-side, others could have also gotten in the mix which was not what they wanted. About 41 other drivers would have loved the chance to ride in second all day as Michael did. It's all about teamwork. "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kvRw8.25791$[email hidden]... > After watching the Talladega race yesterday I have questions as to how > accurate the drafting is on the SS tracks. > > Earnhardt was able to hold off and even pull away slightly from an entire > field of cars all locked together in one tight group. He was even stepping > out of the draft and yet other cars who were locked tight together intheir > own line couldn't pass him. In N2002, you can suck in and blow by the lead > car very easily while drafting with just one or two other cars, let alonea > huge field, especially if the lead car gets out of the draft even just a > bit. > > Also, the real drivers were going three wide around the entire track lap > after lap with little change in order. If I am in the middle in N2002,it's > like I get sling shotted forward and past the inside and outside cars. So > much so that I have to use a decent amount of brake to stay under controlif > there are cars in front of me. > > Something definitely seems wrong to me. Am I the only one who noticedthis? > > David G Fisher > > >

I saw the race in person, so I didn't find that very unusual. Michael had the best piece out there on Sunday. Anyone can get shuffled back by making the wrong move as he did. At that point there was a lot of cars running single-file. To get back up front, he took it upon himself to go inside alone. Those guys are not stupid, when you see the fast guy start a line low you go with him and let him pull you to the front. Kyle Petty was the first taker and after that others followed. A couple of laps later Michael was back up front. Instead of passing Jr, he just got right back in behind him again and all of his followers were hung out to dry. "DTP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:arTw8.1200$[email hidden]... > Hi David. Yeah, I noticed this too, but I think it has more to do with the > fact that in real life all of the cars are slightly different from each > other, where as in the game all of the cars are identical, so none of ushas > any advantage over our competitors. Junior had a better car and the field > behind him just didn't have what it needed to get past him. Also near the > end of the race he had Michael Waltrip doing an incredible amount of > blocking to help him out. Am I the only one that thought it odd thatMichael > was able to go from 26th to second in a matter of a few laps and then just > stayed there? On a number of occasions I watched him come flying up on > Juniors bumper at a much greater rate of speed and could easily havepassed > him, but chose not to. It seemed obvious to me that Michael had what it > takes to get the job done, but for whatever reason stayed where he was.Team > orders perhaps? Who knows. But the one thing that really struck me as odd > was when DW was interviewing Michael during the red flag stop near the end > of the race. Michael said that he felt confident that he could win therace, > but the tone of his voice told another story. He sounded like he had just > lost his best friend. Instead of being jubilant and excited about his > prospects of winning, he certainly didn't sound that way. But then againit

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> could have been fatigue and nothing more. Again, who knows. Anyone else > notice these things? > > -- > See ya in the pits, > Dean > > I have a terrible memory. In fact my memory's so bad I can't remember how > long it's been since I've forgotten anything. > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:kvRw8.25791$[email hidden]... > > After watching the Talladega race yesterday I have questions as to how > > accurate the drafting is on the SS tracks. > > > > Earnhardt was able to hold off and even pull away slightly from an

entire > > field of cars all locked together in one tight group. He was evenstepping > > out of the draft and yet other cars who were locked tight together in > their > > own line couldn't pass him. In N2002, you can suck in and blow by thelead > > car very easily while drafting with just one or two other cars, letalone

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> a > > huge field, especially if the lead car gets out of the draft even just a > > bit. > > > > Also, the real drivers were going three wide around the entire track lap > > after lap with little change in order. If I am in the middle in N2002, > it's > > like I get sling shotted forward and past the inside and outside cars.

So > > much so that I have to use a decent amount of brake to stay undercontrol

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> if > > there are cars in front of me. > > > > Something definitely seems wrong to me. Am I the only one who noticed > this? > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > >

Of course its team work, f you havent noticed, how many times have Earnhardt and Waltrip finished 1 - 2, its their strategy every time "ThreeWide" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:orVw8.2921$[email hidden]... > As NASCAR changes rules quite often with the aero packages, the dynamicsof > the draft also change. > > I recall one race recently where running in the middle worked well, butnow > it no longer does. > > With all cars being equal, certainly 2 that are in line can get by 1single > car. But in reality yesterday Jr's car was very strong. Michael COULDhave

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> passed him but then as they would then be side-by-side, others could have > also gotten in the mix which was not what they wanted. About 41 other > drivers would have loved the chance to ride in second all day as Michael > did. It's all about teamwork. > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:kvRw8.25791$[email hidden]... > > After watching the Talladega race yesterday I have questions as to how > > accurate the drafting is on the SS tracks. > > > > Earnhardt was able to hold off and even pull away slightly from an

entire > > field of cars all locked together in one tight group. He was evenstepping > > out of the draft and yet other cars who were locked tight together in > their > > own line couldn't pass him. In N2002, you can suck in and blow by thelead > > car very easily while drafting with just one or two other cars, letalone

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> a > > huge field, especially if the lead car gets out of the draft even just a > > bit. > > > > Also, the real drivers were going three wide around the entire track lap > > after lap with little change in order. If I am in the middle in N2002, > it's > > like I get sling shotted forward and past the inside and outside cars.

So > > much so that I have to use a decent amount of brake to stay undercontrol

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> if > > there are cars in front of me. > > > > Something definitely seems wrong to me. Am I the only one who noticed > this? > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > >

"rambo" <[email hidden]> wrote: > Of course its team work, f you havent noticed, how many times have > Earnhardt and Waltrip finished 1 - 2, its their strategy every time > I hope in Daytona on July 6, it's Mikey's turn to win - I'd love to hear him and Darryl ham it up afterwards, in Fox's last broadcast of the year. -- Doug Appleyard To reply, myname is dougappleyard -------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ -------------------- Usenet Newsgroup Service

Gonna see that one live. Got my tickets and airfare already booked. WOHOO!! -- See ya in the pits, Dean I have a terrible memory. In fact my memory's so bad I can't remember how long it's been since I've forgotten anything. <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:20020422120520.157$[email hidden]... > "rambo" <[email hidden]> wrote: > > Of course its team work, f you havent noticed, how many times have > > Earnhardt and Waltrip finished 1 - 2, its their strategy every time > > > > > I hope in Daytona on July 6, it's Mikey's turn to win - > I'd love to hear him and Darryl ham it up afterwards, > in Fox's last broadcast of the year. > > -- > Doug Appleyard > To reply, myname is dougappleyard > -------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ -------------------- > Usenet Newsgroup Service

MadDAWG <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Keep in mind that NR2002 was based off of last years version of the ever > changing aero rules. Last year they had the wicker bill and roof deflector > to open up a much larger hole in the air for the car behind to suck up. > > MadDAWG > >

Actually the 2002 rules are in NR2002, the closing rate isn't nearly as fast without the roof fin and Gourney Flap (wicker bill) and we have smaller plates. I can tell all this in the game. In N4 you could just suck right up to the bumper of the guy in front of you, in NR2002 it takes a lot more time to run them down and you have to stay right in their wake to do even that. My vote goes to NR2002 having the rules as laid out before the 500 in Febraury.

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kvRw8.25791$[email hidden]... > After watching the Talladega race yesterday I have questions as to how > accurate the drafting is on the SS tracks.Seems pretty accurate to me. Remember Jr. was getting pushed by the cars behind him as well. And DEI are the kings, and queen now, of restrictor plate racing. And look what happened to Schrader when of all things a piece of his rollbar fell on his ignition switch and cut his car off. He fell way back of the tail end of the draft, and within 15-laps or so was lapped. Has happened to me racing Daytona. Well not the rollbar thing ya know. Bill

No, I think it's this years rules. And I hate them. I've never sucked at Talladega until now :) -Larry "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Keep in mind that NR2002 was based off of last years version of the ever > changing aero rules. Last year they had the wicker bill and roof deflector > to open up a much larger hole in the air for the car behind to suck up. > > MadDAWG > >

In NASCAR WC, if two lines are running say down the backstretch, a car that ends up in the middle (by himself) of the two lines generally falls back fast. (stuck in the middle). In NR2002, being in the middle shoots you to the front. Seems backwards to me, imho and experience in the game. Gary Admin wrote:

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> MadDAWG <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Keep in mind that NR2002 was based off of last years version of the ever > > changing aero rules. Last year they had the wicker bill and roof deflector > > to open up a much larger hole in the air for the car behind to suck up. > > > > MadDAWG > > > > > > Actually the 2002 rules are in NR2002, the closing rate isn't nearly as fast > without the roof fin and Gourney Flap (wicker bill) and we have smaller > plates. I can tell all this in the game. In N4 you could just suck right up > to the bumper of the guy in front of you, in NR2002 it takes a lot more time > to run them down and you have to stay right in their wake to do even that. > > My vote goes to NR2002 having the rules as laid out before the 500 in > Febraury.

>"GK" <[email hidden]> wrote > In NASCAR WC, if two lines are running say down the backstretch, a carthat ends > up in the middle (by himself) of the two lines generally falls back fast.(stuck > in the middle). In NR2002, being in the middle shoots you to the front. No. In NR2002, being in the middle of a 3-wide shoots you into the wall evidently. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

GK <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In NASCAR WC, if two lines are running say down the backstretch, a carthat ends > up in the middle (by himself) of the two lines generally falls back fast.(stuck > in the middle). In NR2002, being in the middle shoots you to the front. > > Seems backwards to me, imho and experience in the game. > > Gary > While I agree the middle lane appears inaccurate in the game, it has nothing to do with the current aero rules, it has more to do with the cone of air being put out by two cars running side by side up front. Even without the roof fins, two cars side by side can knock a whole in the air big enough to benefit someone that comes up between them since the "cone" of air for each of the front cars is overlapping and therefore clearing the way for the middle lane. This will benefit someone in that position, but they should not be able to pass (provided there are two lines of cars around him, not just 2 cars) unless they are getting a push from behind. If a third person comes up the middle on 2 single cars side by side, then a pass through the middle is possible since each of those two cars are dragging their own air, they are also collectively are knocking an overlapping "whole" in the air between them that a third car could benefit from...I have seen 3rd place cars make a pass that way in the sim and real life. But a lone car in the middle of 2 LINES of cars, will or should get dropped without help from behind. I did observe that in a league race at Tally just last week, the middle lane needs pushers just like the inside and outside lanes...

I disagree. Years ago that was the case, but lately the middle has moved just as well, and even better at times than the other two lines. "GK" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In NASCAR WC, if two lines are running say down the backstretch, a carthat ends > up in the middle (by himself) of the two lines generally falls back fast.(stuck

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> in the middle). In NR2002, being in the middle shoots you to the front. > > Seems backwards to me, imho and experience in the game. > > Gary > > Admin wrote: > > > MadDAWG <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > Keep in mind that NR2002 was based off of last years version of the

ever > > > changing aero rules. Last year they had the wicker bill and roofdeflector > > > to open up a much larger hole in the air for the car behind to suckup. > > > > > > MadDAWG > > > > > > > > > > Actually the 2002 rules are in NR2002, the closing rate isn't nearly asfast > > without the roof fin and Gourney Flap (wicker bill) and we have smaller > > plates. I can tell all this in the game. In N4 you could just suck rightup > > to the bumper of the guy in front of you, in NR2002 it takes a lot moretime > > to run them down and you have to stay right in their wake to do eventhat. > > > > My vote goes to NR2002 having the rules as laid out before the 500 in > > Febraury. >

Yep. Earnhardt(Sr.) proved that more than once. -John "Glen Pittman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I disagree. Years ago that was the case, but lately the middle has moved > just as well, and even better at times than the other two lines. > > > > "GK" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:[email hidden]... > > In NASCAR WC, if two lines are running say down the backstretch, a car > that ends > > up in the middle (by himself) of the two lines generally falls backfast.

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> (stuck > > in the middle). In NR2002, being in the middle shoots you to the front. > > > > Seems backwards to me, imho and experience in the game. > > > > Gary > > > > Admin wrote: > > > > > MadDAWG <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > Keep in mind that NR2002 was based off of last years version of the > ever > > > > changing aero rules. Last year they had the wicker bill and roof > deflector > > > > to open up a much larger hole in the air for the car behind to suck > up. > > > > > > > > MadDAWG > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually the 2002 rules are in NR2002, the closing rate isn't nearly

as > fast > > > without the roof fin and Gourney Flap (wicker bill) and we havesmaller > > > plates. I can tell all this in the game. In N4 you could just suckright > up > > > to the bumper of the guy in front of you, in NR2002 it takes a lotmore

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> time > > > to run them down and you have to stay right in their wake to do even > that. > > > > > > My vote goes to NR2002 having the rules as laid out before the 500 in > > > Febraury. > > > >

John Pancoast <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Yep. Earnhardt(Sr.) proved that more than once. > > -John > > > "Glen Pittman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I disagree. Years ago that was the case, but lately the middle has

moved > > just as well, and even better at times than the other two lines. > > > > > > True enough guys, but I think the poster was speaking to 1 guy moving up the middle. With a line of cars, it is still possible to move through the middle and goes with my theory about the outside two lines knocking a big air 'cone' into the air that overlaps and allows dead air to be between them. I don't have the original post in front of me, but I think he was questioning how 1 car could come up between 2 lines. That's nearly impossible, but a line of cars, that's common place IMO.

Ah, if so, yep, you're/he's right. Sorry about that. -John "Admin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Ic1x8.76871$[email hidden]... > > > > True enough guys, but I think the poster was speaking to 1 guy moving upthe > middle. With a line of cars, it is still possible to move through themiddle

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> and goes with my theory about the outside two lines knocking a big air > 'cone' into the air that overlaps and allows dead air to be between them. > > I don't have the original post in front of me, but I think he was > questioning how 1 car could come up between 2 lines. That's nearly > impossible, but a line of cars, that's common place IMO. > >

In real life they are constantly changing the rules. The game was based on one set of rules and has not changed. It may have been very similar to the aero rules that were used when the game was designed. -- Kevin Anderson [email hidden] "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kvRw8.25791$[email hidden]... > After watching the Talladega race yesterday I have questions as to how > accurate the drafting is on the SS tracks. > > Earnhardt was able to hold off and even pull away slightly from an entire > field of cars all locked together in one tight group. He was even stepping > out of the draft and yet other cars who were locked tight together in their > own line couldn't pass him. In N2002, you can suck in and blow by the lead > car very easily while drafting with just one or two other cars, let alone a > huge field, especially if the lead car gets out of the draft even just a > bit. > > Also, the real drivers were going three wide around the entire track lap > after lap with little change in order. If I am in the middle in N2002, it's > like I get sling shotted forward and past the inside and outside cars. So > much so that I have to use a decent amount of brake to stay under control if > there are cars in front of me. > > Something definitely seems wrong to me. Am I the only one who noticed this? > > David G Fisher > > >

In article <20020422120520.157$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] writes:

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>"rambo" <[email hidden]> wrote: >> Of course its team work, f you havent noticed, how many times have >> Earnhardt and Waltrip finished 1 - 2, its their strategy every time >> > > >I hope in Daytona on July 6, it's Mikey's turn to win - >I'd love to hear him and Darryl ham it up afterwards, >in Fox's last broadcast of the year.

Yeah, it would be great to see one that Mikey could actually *enjoy*. He didn't get the chance on his last win... :-( Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

OMG, tell me about it. I used to finish top 5 on a regular basis. The draft is much harder to catch now. Maybe I just took too much time off from SS racing, but I am having a very hard time with the supers in NR2002. Gerald "Larry \(The Other Larry\)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<Yh_w8.76810$[email hidden]>...

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> No, I think it's this years rules. > > And I hate them. I've never sucked at Talladega until now :) > > -Larry > > "MadDAWG" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Keep in mind that NR2002 was based off of last years version of the ever > > changing aero rules. Last year they had the wicker bill and roof deflector > > to open up a much larger hole in the air for the car behind to suck up. > > > > MadDAWG > > > >

In article <arTw8.1200$[email hidden]>, "DTP" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>On a number of occasions I watched him come flying up on >Juniors bumper at a much greater rate of speed and could easily have passed >him, but chose not to. It seemed obvious to me that Michael had what it >takes to get the job done, but for whatever reason stayed where he was. Team >orders perhaps? Who knows. But the one thing that really struck me as odd >was when DW was interviewing Michael during the red flag stop near the end >of the race. Michael said that he felt confident that he could win the race, >but the tone of his voice told another story. He sounded like he had just >lost his best friend. Instead of being jubilant and excited about his >prospects of winning, he certainly didn't sound that way. But then again it >could have been fatigue and nothing more. Again, who knows. Anyone else >notice these things?

I got the impression from Mikey's demeanor/tone that there might have been team orders involved. I don't think he could have passed Little E easily, but he never really TRIED... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.