N2002 - LPI/IC bug!

Gents, I just ran a frankly awful league race at the Glen - there were 9 yellows in the race, and I got charged for every single one of them, whereas in reality I didn't touch a twig all race! The only thing I did differently was pull over just after the finish line as opposed to finishing the entire victory lap. I even have the entire race replay to show that my driving was (ok, REALLY slow, but) safe! I want my 200+ LPI back! -- Colin ICQ 25485061 FFRL Triv: http://www.chbr18476.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/ FFRL: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/fastfood/ffrl/index.html

"Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:o_%w8.5763$[email hidden]... > Gents, I just ran a frankly awful league race at the Glen - there were 9 > yellows in the race, and I got charged for every single one of them,whereas > in reality I didn't touch a twig all race! The only thing I diddifferently > was pull over just after the finish line as opposed to finishing theentire > victory lap. I even have the entire race replay to show that my drivingwas > (ok, REALLY slow, but) safe! > I want my 200+ LPI back! > > -- > Further research seems to show that ALL the drivers in the race got charged with all 9 incidents! This can't be right!

Colin Harris <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:W70x8.5777$[email hidden]...

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> > "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in > message news:o_%w8.5763$[email hidden]... > > Gents, I just ran a frankly awful league race at the Glen - there were 9 > > yellows in the race, and I got charged for every single one of them, > whereas > > in reality I didn't touch a twig all race! The only thing I did > differently > > was pull over just after the finish line as opposed to finishing the > entire > > victory lap. I even have the entire race replay to show that my driving > was > > (ok, REALLY slow, but) safe! > > I want my 200+ LPI back! > > > > -- > > > > Further research seems to show that ALL the drivers in the race got

charged > with all 9 incidents! This can't be right! > > Talk to all these LPI lovers here, I have been ranting about the uselessness of the current LPI model until I am Petty Blue in the face :)

This happened in N4 too, it's the same LPI code as before and I didn't like it then either. I have had numerous races in which I was close to an accident and got charged with it. Vintook "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:W70x8.5777$[email hidden]...

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> > "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in > message news:o_%w8.5763$[email hidden]... > > Gents, I just ran a frankly awful league race at the Glen - there were 9 > > yellows in the race, and I got charged for every single one of them, > whereas > > in reality I didn't touch a twig all race! The only thing I did > differently > > was pull over just after the finish line as opposed to finishing the > entire > > victory lap. I even have the entire race replay to show that my driving > was > > (ok, REALLY slow, but) safe! > > I want my 200+ LPI back! > > > > -- > > > > Further research seems to show that ALL the drivers in the race got

charged > with all 9 incidents! This can't be right! > > >

Vintook <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2v0x8.45518$[email hidden]... > This happened in N4 too, it's the same LPI code as before and I didn'tlike > it then either. I have had numerous races in which I was close to an > accident and got charged with it. > > Vintook > If they could just fix it to where the SOLE person/s that caused the contact 'that would bring out a yellow' would get hit with the IC and not everyone else that gets brought into it or is even near it, I'd quit bitchin, I promise, LOL! :) I don't see how being beside a wreck or getting swept into a wreck is an Incident Caused, but I don't work for Papy sooo... Its about to get worse with the patch and its ability to place an LPI resitriction on the clients...doesn't matter, I quit 'arena' racing mid-N4 and my league server is IP connection so I don't bother carrying the anti-LPI banner anymore. With Papy's arena crashes of late, everyone in the league has quit fussing about IP connecting now...

While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same determination? For better or worse, anyone involved in something that would cause a yellow is assessed an incident. Both the ability to not cause accidents as well as the luck/skill/whatever to avoid being collected is rewarded by the system. Sure you'll get the occasional incident counted against you that is of no fault of your own, but hopefully if you are a clean driver you'll have enough incident-free laps to offset it. This is basically the same system that has been in place since back in the Hawaii days, and the better/safer/cleaner drivers have always gravitated to the top of the LPI statistic. - Eric "Admin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:J91x8.76868$[email hidden]... > If they could just fix it to where the SOLE person/s that caused thecontact > 'that would bring out a yellow' would get hit with the IC and noteveryone > else that gets brought into it or is even near it, I'd quit bitchin, I > promise, LOL! :) I don't see how being beside a wreck or getting sweptinto > a wreck is an Incident Caused, but I don't work for Papy sooo...

"Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa27nt$d4k$[email hidden]...

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> While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be > possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide > who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same > determination? For better or worse, anyone involved in something that > would cause a yellow is assessed an incident. Both the ability to not > cause accidents as well as the luck/skill/whatever to avoid being > collected is rewarded by the system. Sure you'll get the occasional > incident counted against you that is of no fault of your own, but > hopefully if you are a clean driver you'll have enough incident-free > laps to offset it. This is basically the same system that has been in > place since back in the Hawaii days, and the better/safer/cleaner > drivers have always gravitated to the top of the LPI statistic. > > - Eric > >

I agree. And regardless who's at fault, through time the culpability will even out. Howver, if LPI is used to filter entrants that rating should be segregated by track type. (Which I take is impossible without extensive recoding)

Well I hope Papyrus can/will reset everyone's LPI when the patch is released. Someone suggested the LPI should only reflect the last 30 races or so but that's probably too much trouble. Simply resetting would be nice though. David G Fisher "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa27nt$d4k$[email hidden]...

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> While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be > possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide > who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same > determination? For better or worse, anyone involved in something that > would cause a yellow is assessed an incident. Both the ability to not > cause accidents as well as the luck/skill/whatever to avoid being > collected is rewarded by the system. Sure you'll get the occasional > incident counted against you that is of no fault of your own, but > hopefully if you are a clean driver you'll have enough incident-free > laps to offset it. This is basically the same system that has been in > place since back in the Hawaii days, and the better/safer/cleaner > drivers have always gravitated to the top of the LPI statistic. > > - Eric > > > "Admin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:J91x8.76868$[email hidden]... > > If they could just fix it to where the SOLE person/s that caused the > contact > > 'that would bring out a yellow' would get hit with the IC and not > everyone > > else that gets brought into it or is even near it, I'd quit bitchin, I > > promise, LOL! :) I don't see how being beside a wreck or getting swept > into > > a wreck is an Incident Caused, but I don't work for Papy sooo... > > >

I'm not one of them, but what about the guys that already have LPI's of say 200 or more? There are many out there, I don't think they would appreciate having their LPI's reset, do you? -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:334x8.158073$[email hidden]... > Well I hope Papyrus can/will reset everyone's LPI when the patch is > released. Someone suggested the LPI should only reflect the last 30 races or > so but that's probably too much trouble. Simply resetting would be nice > though. > > David G Fisher > > "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aa27nt$d4k$[email hidden]... > > While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be > > possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide > > who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same > > determination? For better or worse, anyone involved in something that > > would cause a yellow is assessed an incident. Both the ability to not > > cause accidents as well as the luck/skill/whatever to avoid being > > collected is rewarded by the system. Sure you'll get the occasional > > incident counted against you that is of no fault of your own, but > > hopefully if you are a clean driver you'll have enough incident-free > > laps to offset it. This is basically the same system that has been in > > place since back in the Hawaii days, and the better/safer/cleaner > > drivers have always gravitated to the top of the LPI statistic. > > > > - Eric > > > > > > "Admin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:J91x8.76868$[email hidden]... > > > If they could just fix it to where the SOLE person/s that caused the > > contact > > > 'that would bring out a yellow' would get hit with the IC and not > > everyone > > > else that gets brought into it or is even near it, I'd quit bitchin, I > > > promise, LOL! :) I don't see how being beside a wreck or getting swept > > into > > > a wreck is an Incident Caused, but I don't work for Papy sooo... > > > > > > > >

"Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GM4x8.45579$[email hidden]... > I'm not one of them, but what about the guys that already have LPI's ofsay 200 or more? There are > many out there, I don't think they would appreciate having their LPI'sreset, do you? > -- > Biz They might not appreciate it, but if Papyrus gives the LPI new meaning than it will only be a true measure of someone if it's reset. People who have a 200 lpi now will have it again once they run a few races. David G Fisher

Going back to the topic here... What Colin said occured in the race is something that shouldnt happen - right? "Eric Busch" said: > While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be > possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide > who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same<SNIPPED!>

"Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > Further research seems to show that ALL the drivers in the race gotcharged > with all 9 incidents! This can't be right! > Not quite Colin, I was only charged with 3 incidents in the race. Obviously my bribe to Papy is still working :) Phil --- Racesim Central Administrator http://www.racesimcentral.com

You're missing my point 'Achim... I just wanted to know a) if this know bug. b) if they got a cure for it... wither it happen often or not is beside the point - imo. -- ed_ "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa2u6t$7a5ah$[email hidden]... > But Ed, errors always happen. And 9 times in one race, honestly, this must > be such an exception that he'll according to mathematical probability never > see this happen again, unless his connection to the server is very very bad > and then the warping makes the server think he actually touched the other > cars. But that's not something N2k2 can help. > > I honestly think from my own memory these mishaps don't happen more often > than in ~3% of the cases. This really isn't an issue. > > Achim > > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:LQ5x8.4362$[email hidden]... > > Going back to the topic here... What Colin said occured in the race is > > something that shouldnt happen - right? > > > > "Eric Busch" said: > > > While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be > > > possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide > > > who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same > > <SNIPPED!> > > > > > >

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa2u6t$7a5ah$[email hidden]... > But Ed, errors always happen. And 9 times in one race, honestly, this must > be such an exception that he'll according to mathematical probabilitynever > see this happen again, unless his connection to the server is very verybad

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> and then the warping makes the server think he actually touched the other > cars. But that's not something N2k2 can help. > > I honestly think from my own memory these mishaps don't happen more often > than in ~3% of the cases. This really isn't an issue. > > Achim

My connection was perfect all race, and I was nowhere NEAR the incidents involved (as Phil will attest, or any others who were there). Something went wrong with the reporting process, and I'd just like acknowledgement of that fact.

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> writes: > Hey I am opposed to that - I've worked so hard on getting a high lpi :-) > > I also think it shouldn't be reset every 30 races. You earn your lpi over > the time, and it's a reality of life that you have to live with the sins of > your past ;-) Not reset over 30 races, but only count the last 30 or whater number seems fit. I was in a Sierra Lowe's race yesterday which must have been one of the worst in history. For the first time I experienced to be collected by a wreck from behind. After I had tip-toed my car through a wreck, someone came full speed into it and plowed some cars into me while i was accelerating out of it. I also experienced beeing rear ended my the leader of the race when I went high so he could lap me. None of the wrecks was of my fault, but I collected 3 nice IC points. My reason for my suggested IC point history idea, is the same as in the ranking. In the ranking the best 8 of the 10 last races count, with the argument that you improve over time and everyone have a bad day from time to time. I mean that the lpi system should reflect some of that aswell. The clean drivers will still have a high lpi, and the crap driver will still have bad lpi, but at least it will reflect your current ability, not based on something you might have done a year ago. -- Olav Malmin remove .spam when replying

In article <J91x8.76868$[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> > Vintook <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:2v0x8.45518$[email hidden]... > > This happened in N4 too, it's the same LPI code as before and I didn't > like > > it then either. I have had numerous races in which I was close to an > > accident and got charged with it. > > > > Vintook > > > > If they could just fix it to where the SOLE person/s that caused the contact > 'that would bring out a yellow' would get hit with the IC and not everyone > else that gets brought into it or is even near it, I'd quit bitchin, I > promise, LOL! :) I don't see how being beside a wreck or getting swept into > a wreck is an Incident Caused, but I don't work for Papy sooo... > > Its about to get worse with the patch and its ability to place an LPI > resitriction on the clients...doesn't matter, I quit 'arena' racing mid-N4 > and my league server is IP connection so I don't bother carrying the > anti-LPI banner anymore. With Papy's arena crashes of late, everyone in the > league has quit fussing about IP connecting now... >

How are they supposed to be able to tell who caused an accident? That's a pretty clueless statement to make. As far as just being close to a wreck to be considered part of it, that probably has more to do with your connection quality with the server in question than anything else. The LPI restriction is IMHO a good thing, especially for unpassworded public pickup races. If you quit arena racing so long ago (almost a year), how do you think that makes you qualified to comment at all? -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================

I agree to this - and the method how N4 and N2k2 have implemented this works well. Avoiding accidents is part of good racing just as much as not causing them, and therefor this aspect is a valid and important part of the overall information the lpi was designed to convey. The 'near miss' issues that are mentioned in this thread happen, but they are very rare, and they happen to all of us. Therefor, they do not distort the overall picture. Relative to each other, we still have correct lpi ratings, even if the absolute figure may be off by maybe a percent or two (which is neglectible anyway). The lpi perfectly shows how good a driver is at racing clean, and avoiding accidents. Achim "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa27nt$d4k$[email hidden]...

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> While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be > possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide > who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same > determination? For better or worse, anyone involved in something that > would cause a yellow is assessed an incident. Both the ability to not > cause accidents as well as the luck/skill/whatever to avoid being > collected is rewarded by the system. Sure you'll get the occasional > incident counted against you that is of no fault of your own, but > hopefully if you are a clean driver you'll have enough incident-free > laps to offset it. This is basically the same system that has been in > place since back in the Hawaii days, and the better/safer/cleaner > drivers have always gravitated to the top of the LPI statistic.

Hey I am opposed to that - I've worked so hard on getting a high lpi :-) I also think it shouldn't be reset every 30 races. You earn your lpi over the time, and it's a reality of life that you have to live with the sins of your past ;-) Achim "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:334x8.158073$[email hidden]... > Well I hope Papyrus can/will reset everyone's LPI when the patch is > released. Someone suggested the LPI should only reflect the last 30 racesor

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> so but that's probably too much trouble. Simply resetting would be nice > though. > > David G Fisher > > "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aa27nt$d4k$[email hidden]... > > While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be > > possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide > > who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same > > determination? For better or worse, anyone involved in something that > > would cause a yellow is assessed an incident. Both the ability to not > > cause accidents as well as the luck/skill/whatever to avoid being > > collected is rewarded by the system. Sure you'll get the occasional > > incident counted against you that is of no fault of your own, but > > hopefully if you are a clean driver you'll have enough incident-free > > laps to offset it. This is basically the same system that has been in > > place since back in the Hawaii days, and the better/safer/cleaner > > drivers have always gravitated to the top of the LPI statistic.

The lpi has always had the same meaning, just now we'll be able to use it for something real :-) Achim "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:VA5x8.93851$[email hidden]...

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> > "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:GM4x8.45579$[email hidden]... > > I'm not one of them, but what about the guys that already have LPI's of > say 200 or more? There are > > many out there, I don't think they would appreciate having their LPI's > reset, do you? > > -- > > Biz > > They might not appreciate it, but if Papyrus gives the LPI new meaning

than > it will only be a true measure of someone if it's reset. People who have a > 200 lpi now will have it again once they run a few races. > > David G Fisher > >

But Ed, errors always happen. And 9 times in one race, honestly, this must be such an exception that he'll according to mathematical probability never see this happen again, unless his connection to the server is very very bad and then the warping makes the server think he actually touched the other cars. But that's not something N2k2 can help. I honestly think from my own memory these mishaps don't happen more often than in ~3% of the cases. This really isn't an issue. Achim "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LQ5x8.4362$[email hidden]...

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> Going back to the topic here... What Colin said occured in the race is > something that shouldnt happen - right? > > "Eric Busch" said: > > While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be > > possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide > > who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same > <SNIPPED!> > >

Yes, that happens from time to time - according to how often it happened to me, it occurs about in 3% of the cases. It probably won't happen to you ever again in N2k2, N2k3, N2k4, N2k5 ... N2k9 <g> unless you have a really bad connection to the server. Achim "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:o_%w8.5763$[email hidden]... > Gents, I just ran a frankly awful league race at the Glen - there were 9 > yellows in the race, and I got charged for every single one of them,whereas > in reality I didn't touch a twig all race! The only thing I diddifferently > was pull over just after the finish line as opposed to finishing theentire > victory lap. I even have the entire race replay to show that my drivingwas > (ok, REALLY slow, but) safe! > I want my 200+ LPI back!

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa2u6r$7a5ah$[email hidden]... > I agree to this - and the method how N4 and N2k2 have implemented thisworks > well. > > Avoiding accidents is part of good racing just as much as not causingthem,

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> and therefor this aspect is a valid and important part of the overall > information the lpi was designed to convey. > > The 'near miss' issues that are mentioned in this thread happen, but they > are very rare, and they happen to all of us. Therefor, they do not distort > the overall picture. Relative to each other, we still have correct lpi > ratings, even if the absolute figure may be off by maybe a percent or two > (which is neglectible anyway). > > The lpi perfectly shows how good a driver is at racing clean, and avoiding > accidents. > > Achim

If I start a new ID now, I'll probably have an LPI over 200. I've had four incidents in about 850 laps of RASCAR racing, one caused by myself which didn't even bring out a yellow. If I continue to use the ID I have now then my LPI is a 30. If the LPI "perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing", which kind of driver am I? 30 or 200+? See how inaccurate the LPI is right now at indicating how clean a driver is? For me and I expect many, many others, the LPI was a useless stat until we heard about the forthcoming patch. When N2002 was released, I just wanted to race as much as possible in the limited time I had to do so. I jumped on the Papy servers, mostly in SS races, and got wholloped left and right. I didn't give a damn about my LPI because it was useless. I ran some short track races at Bristol and other tracks and they unfortunately turned into demolition derbys. I was hit more times in 10 laps in one Bristol race than in the entire 850 laps of RASCAR races. If the LPI had meant something to me, I would of approached my race selections differently, but would of ended up staring at the sierra.com lobby most of the time instead of actually being on a track. At frustrating as the races were, they were the clear choice over staring at the mind numbing chat in the lobby. Now that the LPI is going to be a very useful tool to find clean racing, I'm stuck with a LPI that is going to take a long time to rise to a point that correctly reflects my true driving style. I may get shut out of races. Right now it doesn't perfectly represent anything about how I drive. Like I said, am I the 30 or the 200+ LPI type of driver? I can't be both. Am I the driver who's caused one minor accidetn invloving just one other car in 850 laps of tight racing or a wrecker? I must of had a dozen three second screen freezes during those RASCAR races (before I figured out what was wrong) and I still never caused one other driver to suffer. If I remember correctly, you use two ID's to avoid having your main ID LPI and track rating damaged when you run on the Papy servers. I haven't done anything like that. How can you say someone's LPI indicator of the type of driver they are if you're using a second ID? How would it hurt anyone to have the LPI settings reset? Everyone will quickly gain a new LPI which accurately represents how they drive anyway. If you were high before you'll be high again and vice versa. No more questions from me. :-) David G Fisher

I don't think I have ever even looked at my lpi, I mainly run league races anyways. Don Burnette "Biz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:GM4x8.45579$[email hidden]... > I'm not one of them, but what about the guys that already have LPI's ofsay 200 or more? There are > many out there, I don't think they would appreciate having their LPI'sreset, do you?

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> -- > Biz > > "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand > alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and > the....." - Ash > > > David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:334x8.158073$[email hidden]... > > Well I hope Papyrus can/will reset everyone's LPI when the patch is > > released. Someone suggested the LPI should only reflect the last 30

races or

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> > so but that's probably too much trouble. Simply resetting would be nice > > though. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > "Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:aa27nt$d4k$[email hidden]... > > > While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be > > > possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide > > > who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same > > > determination? For better or worse, anyone involved in something that > > > would cause a yellow is assessed an incident. Both the ability to not > > > cause accidents as well as the luck/skill/whatever to avoid being > > > collected is rewarded by the system. Sure you'll get the occasional > > > incident counted against you that is of no fault of your own, but > > > hopefully if you are a clean driver you'll have enough incident-free > > > laps to offset it. This is basically the same system that has been in > > > place since back in the Hawaii days, and the better/safer/cleaner > > > drivers have always gravitated to the top of the LPI statistic. > > > > > > - Eric > > > > > > > > > "Admin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:J91x8.76868$[email hidden]... > > > > If they could just fix it to where the SOLE person/s that caused the > > > contact > > > > 'that would bring out a yellow' would get hit with the IC and not > > > everyone > > > > else that gets brought into it or is even near it, I'd quit bitchin,

I > > > > promise, LOL! :) I don't see how being beside a wreck or gettingswept

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> > > into > > > > a wreck is an Incident Caused, but I don't work for Papy sooo... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

David G Fisher wrote:

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> If I start a new ID now, I'll probably have an LPI over 200. I've had four > incidents in about 850 laps of RASCAR racing, one caused by myself which > didn't even bring out a yellow. > > If I continue to use the ID I have now then my LPI is a 30. If the LPI > "perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing", which kind of driver > am I? 30 or 200+? See how inaccurate the LPI is right now at indicating how > clean a driver is?

You're absolutely right there. That is a perfect example of how useless it is at rating a driver's ability. The fact that one must either sit out races or create another ID to race with also attests to it's uselessness as an ability reflector. Nobody can rightly pound their chest about how good they are if they've needed to keep multiple ID's in order to get that way. -- Fester Hey nobody's perfect, not even myself 8) -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> 4/15/02

Uncle Fester wrote:

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> > David G Fisher wrote: > > > If I start a new ID now, I'll probably have an LPI over 200. I've had four > > incidents in about 850 laps of RASCAR racing, one caused by myself which > > didn't even bring out a yellow. > > > > If I continue to use the ID I have now then my LPI is a 30. If the LPI > > "perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing", which kind of driver > > am I? 30 or 200+? See how inaccurate the LPI is right now at indicating how > > clean a driver is? > > You're absolutely right there. That is a perfect example of how useless > it is at rating a driver's ability. The fact that one must either sit > out races or create another ID to race with also attests to it's > uselessness as an ability reflector. Nobody can rightly pound their > chest about how good they are if they've needed to keep multiple ID's in > order to get that way.

And then we have "padding"...... Back on TEN it wasn't uncommon to see a 100% race with only 2 or 3 people in them, usually a short track so they'd get many laps in, 500 miles at Marty at 30 miles an hour does wonders for your LPI So IMHO, it's no more useful than the kind of ranking we've got now, of course, if you find people with 100 000 + laps and an LPI of 250 +, you can be pretty sure he's a clean racer :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<qC9x8.98278$[email hidden]>... > If I start a new ID now, I'll probably have an LPI over 200. I've had four > incidents in about 850 laps of RASCAR racing, one caused by myself which > didn't even bring out a yellow. I think you've really nailed down what makes LPI mainly useless. It has as much to do with who you race with and what servers you race on as with your own driving skill. > If I continue to use the ID I have now then my LPI is a 30. If the LPI > "perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing", which kind of driver > am I? 30 or 200+? See how inaccurate the LPI is right now at indicating how > clean a driver is? I think 30 is actually pretty good if you do a lot of pickup racing. Even if you are an experienced sim driver, you can't get into higher ranked races until you suffer through the lower ranks. Even when you get into better racing, if you go to some place like Martinsville or Dover, you can just about count on getting at least one incident, no matter how good you are. The only thing a astronomical LPI tells me is that the driver belongs to a nice league and doesn't get out much. Or, they have raced only a limited number of races with very small fields and manage to avoid trouble "so far". > For me and I expect many, many others, the LPI was a useless stat until we > heard about the forthcoming patch. I think it is still mostly useless, even with a filter. Have I missed something? > Now that the LPI is going to be a very useful tool to find clean racing, I'm > stuck with a LPI that is going to take a long time to rise to a point that > correctly reflects my true driving style. I may get shut out of races. Right > now it doesn't perfectly represent anything about how I drive. Other than the parts about LPI being a useful tool, and reflective of driver skill, agreed. > How would it hurt anyone to have the LPI settings reset? Everyone will > quickly gain a new LPI which accurately represents how they drive anyway. If > you were high before you'll be high again and vice versa. Resetting it won't really help anyone either. How do you filter the bad drivers out if everyones stats are the same? There will be a period where filtering by LPI would perhaps be even less useful than it would be if the stat is not reset. Never rely on a machine to do a human task. The only way you can ensure yourself of relatively trouble free racing is to race with the same bunch of folks on a regular basis. Everyone gets to know everyone else's style, and everyone takes greater pains to be careful and alert and respectful. Be this a league or whatever. I think the RASCAR races have a lot of potential for good racing. I wouldn't worry about stats and filtering too much. Getting the same bunch together every week will take care of lots of problems right off the bat. If the stray joker shows up and starts ruining stuff, just ask them to leave or boot them or ban them. Or make a new friend and offer to teach them how to race clean. Just be patient, relax, good things will follow, I think. Gerald

Exactly Goy. I can take or leave LPI ratings.........hey, how about using that programming time for an improved damage model ? <G> -John "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Uncle Fester wrote: > > > > David G Fisher wrote: > > > > > If I start a new ID now, I'll probably have an LPI over 200. I've had

four > > > incidents in about 850 laps of RASCAR racing, one caused by myselfwhich > > > didn't even bring out a yellow. > > > > > > If I continue to use the ID I have now then my LPI is a 30. If theLPI > > > "perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing", which kind ofdriver > > > am I? 30 or 200+? See how inaccurate the LPI is right now atindicating how

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> > > clean a driver is? > > > > You're absolutely right there. That is a perfect example of how useless > > it is at rating a driver's ability. The fact that one must either sit > > out races or create another ID to race with also attests to it's > > uselessness as an ability reflector. Nobody can rightly pound their > > chest about how good they are if they've needed to keep multiple ID's in > > order to get that way. > > And then we have "padding"...... > > Back on TEN it wasn't uncommon to see a 100% race with only 2 or 3 > people in them, usually a short track so they'd get many laps in, 500 > miles at Marty at 30 miles an hour does wonders for your LPI > > So IMHO, it's no more useful than the kind of ranking we've got now, of > course, if you find people with 100 000 + laps and an LPI of 250 +, you > can be pretty sure he's a clean racer :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:05:21 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: >So IMHO, it's no more useful than the kind of ranking we've got now, of >course, if you find people with 100 000 + laps and an LPI of 250 +, you >can be pretty sure he's a clean racer :-) People, people, why so much discussion over something totally unimportant like LPI values, when there are so much more beautiful things in the world like LOVE? Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. what rhymes on hooters?)

[email hidden] (Gerald Moore) writes:

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> > The only way you can ensure yourself of relatively trouble free racing > is to race with the same bunch of folks on a regular basis. Everyone > gets to know everyone else's style, and everyone takes greater pains > to be careful and alert and respectful. Be this a league or whatever. > I think the RASCAR races have a lot of potential for good racing. I > wouldn't worry about stats and filtering too much. Getting the same > bunch together every week will take care of lots of problems right off > the bat. If the stray joker shows up and starts ruining stuff, just > ask them to leave or boot them or ban them. Or make a new friend and > offer to teach them how to race clean.

Well said! RASCAR have a huge potential, specially if the server are up 24/7-ish, so it will be THE place to be, and whenever I feel like racing, I know where to find the sensible drivers. That's also one of the reasons I never joined a league in N4 (or N2002 for that matter, but I've only had if for a week). I am commited to do one league race in GPL every second sunday, but commiting to a big NASCAR schedule is too much. All I wan't is good clean racing with familiar people, and so far, the best racing I've had in N4 was with my fellow GPL league friends when we agreed to do N4 one offs. Here's to a bright future :) -- Olav Malmin remove .spam when replying

[email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:

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> On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:05:21 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >So IMHO, it's no more useful than the kind of ranking we've got now, of > >course, if you find people with 100 000 + laps and an LPI of 250 +, you > >can be pretty sure he's a clean racer :-) > > People, people, why so much discussion over something totally > unimportant like LPI values, when there are so much more beautiful > things in the world like LOVE? > > Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > what rhymes on hooters?)

Andre, you have lost it :) -- Olav Malmin remove .spam when replying

Andre Warringa wrote:

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> > On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:05:21 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >So IMHO, it's no more useful than the kind of ranking we've got now, of > >course, if you find people with 100 000 + laps and an LPI of 250 +, you > >can be pretty sure he's a clean racer :-) > > People, people, why so much discussion over something totally > unimportant like LPI values, when there are so much more beautiful > things in the world like LOVE? > > Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > what rhymes on hooters?)

Hooters hooters yum yum yum Hooters hooters on a girl that's dum(b) --Al Bundy-- Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

Olav Malmin wrote:

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> > > People, people, why so much discussion over something totally > > unimportant like LPI values, when there are so much more beautiful > > things in the world like LOVE? > > > > Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > > what rhymes on hooters?) > > Andre, you have lost it :)

That would imply that he's actually had it at some point.... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

John Pancoast wrote: > > Exactly Goy. I can take or leave LPI ratings.........hey, how about using > that programming time for an improved damage model ? <G> Or an AussieV8 sim.... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

Joachim Trensz wrote: > .... as he'll drive realistically focussed on finishing in one > piece, instead of on maintaining or acquiring however unimportant positions > in lap 1 or 2 of the race. Doesn't sound like real-world NASCAR to me! :-P -- Fester Hey nobody's perfect, not even myself 8) -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> 4/15/02

wow, this almost sounds like a religious thing to you? it seems the biggest worry here are the incidents happening that have nothing to do at all with the skill of the driver. if you're saying part of the skill of the driver is divining which race will not have someone that will wreck him is part of the formula, then i can agree with you when you belly up to the bar and slap the cowboy reaching for the pickled pigs feet! wreckers aren't complaining, the non-wreckers are. people getting caught in a racing crash aren't complaining, people being crashed are. and the original thread--- not one person got charged with the 9 happenings.....all the drivers did. yr argument that dave hasn't developed racing strategies to stay out of trouble only hold true if he was in an environment with excellent drivers all the time. he's not so therefore it is NOT an accurate representation of HIS skills. damn, i'm starting to sound religious now... "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa40is$7l2d8$[email hidden]...

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> Hi Dave, > > > > If the LPI "perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing" > > which kind of driver am I? 30 or 200+? > > You're a driver who under favourable conditions is able to drive quite

error

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> free, i.e. you won't make too many unforced errors, but you haven't > developed the strategies yet to stay out of trouble when things get rough. > Your two lpi's paint a clear picture of your characteristic as a racer. > > > If the LPI had meant something to me... > > And your lpi mirrors this. I.e., it shows a realistic picture of > your priorities. To me, the lpi has always been an at least equally > important value to the others, and my lpi shows this as well. > > Please don't misunderstand this as a personal attack or criticism - this

is > not what I am trying to do at all. I just really think that the lpi showsa

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> clear picture of what a driver has been doing. Not perfect in all detail, > but at least in terms of showing a tendency. > > > I would of approached my race selections differently, but would of > > ended up staring at the sierra.com lobby most of the time instead > > of actually being on a track > > Apologies if I repeat myself, but I brought one ID from 0 to 5 on RC's in > about a week, with an lpi of currently around 50 (Littlefeat). I raced > mostly on the fixed setup Papy RC Loop servers. > > I personally think an lpi of 50 will get me into most any race that'll be

on > offer after the lpi patch, and am not in the least worried that this might > not be enough. Don't forget that we were all facing the same probs. Nobody > will on a large scale start asking lpi's of 100 or more on their servers,as

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> there simply aren't enough drivers who have such high lpi's (except for > newbies after their first race, if they're lucky :-) > > > How can you say someone's LPI indicator of the type of driver > > they are if you're using a second ID? > > Well I'm not saying this will all be perfect or anything. I'm just saying > it's a valuable addition to the ranking system, and I think we all should > welcome it. I don't see any major hickups even in the beginning as we're

all

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> starting from the same situation and background, so there won't be any > wonder-lpi's anywhere. And as time passes, things will develop a clear > shape. > > And as I said in another message, races will just get better with everyone > being more concerned about their lpi. It's to the best of us all. > > > How would it hurt anyone to have the LPI settings reset? > > Well, I have been working for this lpi ever since I started racing on > Sierra.com, as the lpi appeared to me always to be the most important > indicator for how good and realistic a racer someone is. I've always

pulled > back when I could to avoid the accident (and it's brought me points anyway > as I've finished more often than otherwise), I've often rather braked when > things got critical than going through a melee at full speed with my eyes > closed, I've always driven with the guideline in my head that the most > important thing is finishing without having offs, as just one single offis

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> likely to cost me more time than I can ever make up in the entire race by > driving like an alien. > > I've always aimed for a compromise between aggressive racing for > the win, and holding back when it seemed reasonable. IMO my > lpi's mirrors this, and I'd hate to lose the result of all the work ;-) > > > Everyone will quickly gain a new LPI which accurately > > represents how they drive anyway. If you were high > > before you'll be high again and vice versa. > > Well, you know my opinion. I would get a high lpi again (higher than right > now as I very often was the special target of wreckers who went for the > leader), but > I'd lose the result of everything I've achieved so far in that respect on > Sierra.com, while those who didn't pay attention to their lpi would get a > present :-) > > Achim > > > > > > > > > > >

"reverend rob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nogx8.1073$[email hidden]... > and the original thread--- not one person got charged with the 9 > happenings.....all the drivers did. > Close: SOME of the drivers got charged with ALL 9 incidents, most got charged with considerably more than they were involved in, and Phil seems to be the only one who got reported correctly. The original point remains, though - there's a reporting bug. Eric Busch, bless him, has obviously seen this thread because he's replied to a post within it, I'd just be interested to know if this has been reported before and what the possible causes are.

Joachim Trensz wrote:

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> > The interesting side effect for us all will be, that someone who works as > hard as this just to get a high lpi will try very hard not to ruin that lpi > he worked for so hard in normal races. > > He'll be a clean and intelligent racer, and it'll be great fun to dice with > him on the track, as he'll drive realistically focussed on finishing in one > piece, instead of on maintaining or acquiring however unimportant positions > in lap 1 or 2 of the race.

....or he could be one of those who will do anything to win, including the T1 hero stuff and needs to pad his LPI to get over the "magical" LPI number deemed appropriate to participate in various races Most PW'ed races back on TEN where the the host wanted to screen your LPI would settle for around 20 usually If you do race a lot of pickup races, it's not uncommon, or at least it wasn't uncommon, to be in the 20-30 range, especially on the SS as you need to stay with the pack to have a prayer and you won't have much time to react when something happens Sorry, LPI *is* a tool for judging people's racing ability, but it's "just another tool" if you ask me, nice to have but I'm not going all ga ga over it :-) Now, an AussieV8 mod/add-on/patch on the other hand....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

That'd be nice too. -John "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > John Pancoast wrote: > > > > Exactly Goy. I can take or leave LPI ratings.........hey, how aboutusing

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> > that programming time for an improved damage model ? <G> > > Or an AussieV8 sim.... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

Joachim Trensz wrote:

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> > no religious feeling here about that - I just sound like that <g> > > What I'm saying btw isn't that it's part of the drivers skill to guess which > races will be accident free - on the contrary. I'm saying it's an important > part of the drivers skill to even in messy races stay clean and clear of > accidents :-) > > Which I am convinced BTW all the RASCAR guys I've seen racing without > exception are or will be very good at.

Ah....so you haven't raced with Herr von Henrie yet then I take it :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "Animation isn't the illusion of life; it is life" --Chuck Jones (1912-2002)--

Hi Olav, don't forget that there will be far less wrecks on the servers checking for lpi than you see at the moment. I.e., once the lpi patch has been introduced, your lpi will be much safer as much less accidents will happen on the servers that check lpi (as obviously, drivers causing wrecks like the one you descrive won't be on these servers). Achim "Olav Malmin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > Hey I am opposed to that - I've worked so hard on getting a high lpi :-) > > > > I also think it shouldn't be reset every 30 races. You earn your lpiover > > the time, and it's a reality of life that you have to live with the sinsof

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> > your past ;-) > > Not reset over 30 races, but only count the last 30 or whater number > seems fit. > > I was in a Sierra Lowe's race yesterday which must have been one > of the worst in history. For the first time I experienced to be > collected by a wreck from behind. After I had tip-toed my car through > a wreck, someone came full speed into it and plowed some cars into me > while i was accelerating out of it. I also experienced beeing rear > ended my the leader of the race when I went high so he could lap > me. None of the wrecks was of my fault, but I collected 3 nice IC > points. > > My reason for my suggested IC point history idea, is the same as in > the ranking. In the ranking the best 8 of the 10 last races count, > with the argument that you improve over time and everyone have a bad > day from time to time. I mean that the lpi system should reflect some > of that aswell. The clean drivers will still have a high lpi, and the > crap driver will still have bad lpi, but at least it will reflect your > current ability, not based on something you might have done a year ago. > > -- > Olav Malmin > remove .spam when replying

without wanting to start rolling Tibethan prayer drums here ;-) but this indeed is so far beyond everything I've ever seen that I think it was an extremely unusual occurrence. Maybe due to the strange connection issues around Sierra.com in the last two or three days, despite the fact that it appeared ok to you (at least I've been seeing strange things, like CRC errors and such). Achim "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:fb8x8.5950$[email hidden]... > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aa2u6t$7a5ah$[email hidden]... > > But Ed, errors always happen. And 9 times in one race, honestly, thismust > > be such an exception that he'll according to mathematical probability > never > > see this happen again, unless his connection to the server is very very > bad > > and then the warping makes the server think he actually touched theother > > cars. But that's not something N2k2 can help. > > > > I honestly think from my own memory these mishaps don't happen moreoften > > than in ~3% of the cases. This really isn't an issue. > > > > Achim > > My connection was perfect all race, and I was nowhere NEAR the incidents > involved (as Phil will attest, or any others who were there). Somethingwent > wrong with the reporting process, and I'd just like acknowledgement ofthat > fact. > >

Nobody needs to sit out races. Until now you just had to learn to deal with difficult racing conditions at times. And this will improve a lot once lpi becomes a criterion for server entry. It'll become easier as you won't be the only one doing it in a field of guys who think they're entirely alone on the track. They'll start interacting more, looking out for others more. It'll make the racing cleaner, and more enjoyable. Achim "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > David G Fisher wrote: > > > If I start a new ID now, I'll probably have an LPI over 200. I've hadfour > > incidents in about 850 laps of RASCAR racing, one caused by myself which > > didn't even bring out a yellow. > > > > If I continue to use the ID I have now then my LPI is a 30. If the LPI > > "perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing", which kind ofdriver > > am I? 30 or 200+? See how inaccurate the LPI is right now at indicatinghow

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> > clean a driver is? > > > You're absolutely right there. That is a perfect example of how useless > it is at rating a driver's ability. The fact that one must either sit > out races or create another ID to race with also attests to it's > uselessness as an ability reflector. Nobody can rightly pound their > chest about how good they are if they've needed to keep multiple ID's in > order to get that way. > > > -- > > Fester > > Hey nobody's perfect, not even myself 8) > -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> 4/15/02 >

The interesting side effect for us all will be, that someone who works as hard as this just to get a high lpi will try very hard not to ruin that lpi he worked for so hard in normal races. He'll be a clean and intelligent racer, and it'll be great fun to dice with him on the track, as he'll drive realistically focussed on finishing in one piece, instead of on maintaining or acquiring however unimportant positions in lap 1 or 2 of the race. Achim "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ... ... > Back on TEN it wasn't uncommon to see a 100% race with only 2 or 3 > people in them, usually a short track so they'd get many laps in, 500 > miles at Marty at 30 miles an hour does wonders for your LPI

:-) I've been together with my wife for 14 years, and I still love her deeply. Almost incredible, but true :-) Achim "Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:05:21 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >So IMHO, it's no more useful than the kind of ranking we've got now, of > >course, if you find people with 100 000 + laps and an LPI of 250 +, you > >can be pretty sure he's a clean racer :-) > > People, people, why so much discussion over something totally > unimportant like LPI values, when there are so much more beautiful > things in the world like LOVE? > > Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > what rhymes on hooters?) >

This is the main misconception. On Sierra.com we all race with a mix of other drivers, sometimes clean pro's, sometimes trigger-happy rookies. The lpi shows a picture of how we fare in that mix of racing situations. And it's the same for most of us. Achim "Gerald Moore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in messagenews:<qC9x8.98278$[email hidden]>... ... > I think you've really nailed down what makes LPI mainly useless. It > has as much to do with who you race with and what servers you race on > as with your own driving skill....

the point you were trying to make (or the question you were asking) didn't come across too clearly to me in your first message, in the light of what has been said before about the lpi issue recently - imo ;-) Achim "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NX7x8.104$O%[email hidden]...

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> You're missing my point 'Achim... I just wanted to know a) if this know > bug. b) if they got a cure for it... wither it happen often or not is > beside the point - imo. > > -- > ed_ > > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aa2u6t$7a5ah$[email hidden]... > > But Ed, errors always happen. And 9 times in one race, honestly, this

must > > be such an exception that he'll according to mathematical probability > never > > see this happen again, unless his connection to the server is very very > bad > > and then the warping makes the server think he actually touched theother > > cars. But that's not something N2k2 can help. > > > > I honestly think from my own memory these mishaps don't happen moreoften

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> > than in ~3% of the cases. This really isn't an issue. > > > > Achim > > > > > > "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:LQ5x8.4362$[email hidden]... > > > Going back to the topic here... What Colin said occured in the race

is

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> > > something that shouldnt happen - right? > > > > > > "Eric Busch" said: > > > > While that would be great in theory, I don't see how that would be > > > > possible to implement. People watching the race can't always decide > > > > who's at fault, so how would you expect a computer to make that same > > > <SNIPPED!> > > > > > > > > > > >

Hi Dave, > If the LPI "perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing" > which kind of driver am I? 30 or 200+? You're a driver who under favourable conditions is able to drive quite error free, i.e. you won't make too many unforced errors, but you haven't developed the strategies yet to stay out of trouble when things get rough. Your two lpi's paint a clear picture of your characteristic as a racer. > If the LPI had meant something to me... And your lpi mirrors this. I.e., it shows a realistic picture of your priorities. To me, the lpi has always been an at least equally important value to the others, and my lpi shows this as well. Please don't misunderstand this as a personal attack or criticism - this is not what I am trying to do at all. I just really think that the lpi shows a clear picture of what a driver has been doing. Not perfect in all detail, but at least in terms of showing a tendency. > I would of approached my race selections differently, but would of > ended up staring at the sierra.com lobby most of the time instead > of actually being on a track Apologies if I repeat myself, but I brought one ID from 0 to 5 on RC's in about a week, with an lpi of currently around 50 (Littlefeat). I raced mostly on the fixed setup Papy RC Loop servers. I personally think an lpi of 50 will get me into most any race that'll be on offer after the lpi patch, and am not in the least worried that this might not be enough. Don't forget that we were all facing the same probs. Nobody will on a large scale start asking lpi's of 100 or more on their servers, as there simply aren't enough drivers who have such high lpi's (except for newbies after their first race, if they're lucky :-) > How can you say someone's LPI indicator of the type of driver > they are if you're using a second ID? Well I'm not saying this will all be perfect or anything. I'm just saying it's a valuable addition to the ranking system, and I think we all should welcome it. I don't see any major hickups even in the beginning as we're all starting from the same situation and background, so there won't be any wonder-lpi's anywhere. And as time passes, things will develop a clear shape. And as I said in another message, races will just get better with everyone being more concerned about their lpi. It's to the best of us all. > How would it hurt anyone to have the LPI settings reset? Well, I have been working for this lpi ever since I started racing on Sierra.com, as the lpi appeared to me always to be the most important indicator for how good and realistic a racer someone is. I've always pulled back when I could to avoid the accident (and it's brought me points anyway as I've finished more often than otherwise), I've often rather braked when things got critical than going through a melee at full speed with my eyes closed, I've always driven with the guideline in my head that the most important thing is finishing without having offs, as just one single off is likely to cost me more time than I can ever make up in the entire race by driving like an alien. I've always aimed for a compromise between aggressive racing for the win, and holding back when it seemed reasonable. IMO my lpi's mirrors this, and I'd hate to lose the result of all the work ;-) > Everyone will quickly gain a new LPI which accurately > represents how they drive anyway. If you were high > before you'll be high again and vice versa. Well, you know my opinion. I would get a high lpi again (higher than right now as I very often was the special target of wreckers who went for the leader), but I'd lose the result of everything I've achieved so far in that respect on Sierra.com, while those who didn't pay attention to their lpi would get a present :-) Achim

This is the first time I've seen this reported. It would seem to be road course specific, but I really don't have any more insight on it at the moment... - Eric "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:mLgx8.6515$[email hidden]... > The original point remains, though - there's a reporting bug. Eric Busch, > bless him, has obviously seen this thread because he's replied to a post > within it, I'd just be interested to know if this has been reported before > and what the possible causes are.

"Andre Warringa" wrote: > Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > what rhymes on hooters?) Scooters? ;-) -- ed_

Joachim Trensz <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa40iq$7l2d8$[email hidden]... > This is the main misconception. On Sierra.com we all race with a mix of > other drivers, sometimes clean pro's, sometimes trigger-happy rookies. The > lpi shows a picture of how we fare in that mix of racing situations. And > it's the same for most of us. > Not true, my LPI is 0 (thats zero) and I statisically win 22% of the races I run (since N4 came out anyway, was more IN N3/CTS and less in N3). So since I run private, IP league races and have no ratings and no LPI stat, I have to shlep through SS races on Sierra to buildup enough of an LPI to get into races with guys that are likely no better than me...I don't think so. I thought this sim was supposed to be about racing, not who is good enough to race on certain servers...I guess that is my main gripe with this whole deal, NASCAR Racing is supposed to be about racing, not who avoided enough wrecks to race with a certain click.

"Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa4dps$bjv$[email hidden]... > This is the first time I've seen this reported. It would seem to be road > course specific, but I really don't have any more insight on it at the > moment... > > - Eric > Thanks, Eric, if there's any further info you need just let me know.

It seems to me like most of you are overlooking the point... the aim with LPI restriction is not to limit races for anyone the got under 1000 LPI or whatever - but it's to endorse and promote clean racing... and if this feature make us all go out get ned ID's and then start running lots of laps cleanly - when then the objective is reached - no? It's worth pointing out that if anyone decide to create a new ID in the aim of getting a better LPI - there will still one oher factor to think of - the skill point... Which means that now folks have to start over racing for new skill point - cleanly! What good is your 800 LPI if your skill level is still 2 and the race recquire 6!?!? For those who just run league races, the LPI is bound to get high yes.. - but my guess is that the skill levels on the otherhand will remain pretty low. The objective here is not to see who got the biggest.... LPI (!) - but to promote and ensure cleanER races... So the next time one of decide to enter a 40% 6-10 race at Dega - we wont have to wonder how many of the cars beside us can complete 20 laps without wrecking twice! -- ed_ "David G Fisher" said: > If I start a new ID now, I'll probably have an LPI over 200. I've had four > incidents in about 850 laps of RASCAR racing, one caused by myself which > didn't even bring out a yellow.

John Simmons <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > How are they supposed to be able to tell who caused an accident? That's > a pretty clueless statement to make. Not really JS, I support you an your product, maybe I should use my real screenie here so you want slam me so hard next time. My advice to Papy, charge the single car in single car accidents, and the first 2 to make contact otherwise. Don't blame me for driving blind into a smoke filled corner and hitting the idiots that started it, especially if they are strung from top to bottom with no opening for me to go through. >As far as just being close to a > wreck to be considered part of it, that probably has more to do with > your connection quality with the server in question than anything else. I have a great connection and have still gotten charged ICs when I finished 1st and didn't touch a soul. There where a ton of wrecks, none of which I were a part of, still 1 or 2 IC's. If they are going to base something like a restriction on this crazy stat, it should at least work first. > The LPI restriction is IMHO a good thing, especially for unpassworded > public pickup races. I guess, but it means racing a ton of idiots before being allowed into the 'click' with their LPI restricted servers. > If you quit arena racing so long ago (almost a year), how do you think > that makes you qualified to comment at all? I still lurk in there with a 'throw away' screen name just to keep tabs on possible recruits for my league. And the recruiting that I have done has shown me a lot about guys with low LPIs NOT being an accurate indicator of their actual driving skill. I don't think accident avoidence is any more skill than luck or even fate. Again, I thought this sim was about racing, not *statting*. And I take back defending your fictional prose earlier too :(

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> ========================================================= > DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons > DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) > http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 > RASCAR Roster > http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar > Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" > http://www.paddedwall.org/john > Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) > http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast > > If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown > above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. > =========================================================

On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:46:49 -0000, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote: >:-) > >I've been together with my wife for 14 years, and I still love her deeply. >Almost incredible, but true :-) > >Achim 14 years?? Jeez.. and I was allready proud that I go steady with my girl for two whole months! :) Andre

On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:59:08 GMT, "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>"Andre Warringa" wrote: > >> Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. >> what rhymes on hooters?) > >Scooters? >;-)

Tsskk... you are SO un-romantic! Andre

That's also true :-) Achim "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ... > Doesn't sound like real-world NASCAR to me! :-P...

no religious feeling here about that - I just sound like that <g> What I'm saying btw isn't that it's part of the drivers skill to guess which races will be accident free - on the contrary. I'm saying it's an important part of the drivers skill to even in messy races stay clean and clear of accidents :-) Which I am convinced BTW all the RASCAR guys I've seen racing without exception are or will be very good at. Achim "reverend rob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:nogx8.1073$[email hidden]... > wow, this almost sounds like a religious thing to you? it seems the > biggest worry here are the incidents happening that have nothing to do at > all with the skill of the driver. > > if you're saying part of the skill of the driver is divining which racewill > not have someone that will wreck him is part of the formula, then i can > agree with you when you belly up to the bar and slap the cowboy reachingfor > the pickled pigs feet! > > wreckers aren't complaining, the non-wreckers are. people getting caughtin

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> a racing crash aren't complaining, people being crashed are. > > and the original thread--- not one person got charged with the 9 > happenings.....all the drivers did. > > yr argument that dave hasn't developed racing strategies to stay out of > trouble only hold true if he was in an environment with excellent drivers > all the time. he's not so therefore it is NOT an accurate representation > of HIS skills. > > damn, i'm starting to sound religious now...

...

gaga gagaga gaaa gaga gaaaga gaggaga - oops, I think I've been discussing this for too long <g> Achim "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Joachim Trensz wrote:...

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> ....or he could be one of those who will do anything to win, including > the T1 hero stuff and needs to pad his LPI to get over the "magical" LPI > number deemed appropriate to participate in various races > > Most PW'ed races back on TEN where the the host wanted to screen your > LPI would settle for around 20 usually > > If you do race a lot of pickup races, it's not uncommon, or at least it > wasn't uncommon, to be in the 20-30 range, especially on the SS as you > need to stay with the pack to have a prayer and you won't have much time > to react when something happens > > Sorry, LPI *is* a tool for judging people's racing ability, but it's > "just another tool" if you ask me, nice to have but I'm not going all ga > ga over it :-) > > Now, an AussieV8 mod/add-on/patch on the other hand....:-)

...

So 'Hooters' are romantic now???? Hot damn, I gotta get back to this dating thing again! :) -- ed_ >"Andre Warringa" wrote: > > > >> Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > >> what rhymes on hooters?) > > > >Scooters? > >;-) > > Tsskk... you are SO un-romantic! > > Andre

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa40is$7l2d8$[email hidden]...

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> Hi Dave, > > > > If the LPI "perfectly shows how good a driver is at clean racing" > > which kind of driver am I? 30 or 200+? > > You're a driver who under favourable conditions is able to drive quite

error > free, i.e. you won't make too many unforced errors, but you haven't > developed the strategies yet to stay out of trouble when things get rough. > Your two lpi's paint a clear picture of your characteristic as a racer. I couldn't disagree more. I've been racing online with many sims for five years and I've always been good at avoiding incidents. It's something I enjoy doing and consider one of my strenthgs as I've shown in the RASCAR races. Also, I wouldn't describe the incidents I've had on the Papy Daytona servers as happening under "rough" conditions. Actually it's the opposite. I get hit by people who simply do really stupid things either intentionally or unintentionally. Those races are always full of at least 32 drivers. Many of them are new and go to the Papy SS races to get started. I was probably charged with at least 15 incidents alone when I was hit from behind while following the pace car before the race even started. The rough racing has actually been in the RASCAR races where I've gone door to door with other drivers for half the race, constantly changing positions.

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> > I would of approached my race selections differently, but would of > > ended up staring at the sierra.com lobby most of the time instead > > of actually being on a track > > Apologies if I repeat myself, but I brought one ID from 0 to 5 on RC's in > about a week, with an lpi of currently around 50 (Littlefeat). I raced > mostly on the fixed setup Papy RC Loop servers.

RC's are a completely different type of race on the Papy servers than the SS's. They attract a much different type of driver, and they attract less drivers than the SS's. How many Papy server SS races have you run? Look what happened at Talladega on Sunday. 20 drivers get taken out when one or two make a mistake. That doesn't happen on the RC's. If they had an LPI for individual tracks and servers then I'm sure I would have LPI's as high as anyone. My current LPI has nothing to do with undeveloped strategies but soley where I've raced, and the fact that I haven't used multiple ID's to protect my primary ID LPI. > > How can you say someone's LPI indicator of the type of driver > > they are if you're using a second ID? > > Well I'm not saying this will all be perfect or anything. I'm just saying > it's a valuable addition to the ranking system, and I think we all should > welcome it. I don't see any major hickups even in the beginning as we'reall > starting from the same situation and background, so there won't be any > wonder-lpi's anywhere. And as time passes, things will develop a clear > shape. You did a very good job of not really answering my question. :-) You must of decided at some point that you didn't want your primary ID to be negatively affected by unavoidable incidents. Right? If I had used a second ID for just the Papy server SS races, my primary ID LPI would be much, much higher. > And as I said in another message, races will just get better with everyone > being more concerned about their lpi. It's to the best of us all. I agree with that completely, I just think that when the LPI gets new relevence, then it should be reset. David G Fisher

"Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Tjjx8.4872$[email hidden]... > It seems to me like most of you are overlooking the point... the aimwith > LPI restriction is not to limit races for anyone the got under 1000 LPI or > whatever - but it's to endorse and promote clean racing... and if this > feature make us all go out get ned ID's and then start running lots oflaps > cleanly - when then the objective is reached - no? I like what Papyrus is doing with the new LPI a lot. I just disagree with Joachim's statement that right now it's a perfect indicator of one's ability to avoid accidents, and I gave one example as to how it can be misleading post patch if it isn't reset. > It's worth pointing out that if anyone decide to create a new ID in theaim > of getting a better LPI - there will still one oher factor to think of -the > skill point... Which means that now folks have to start over racing for > new skill point - cleanly! What good is your 800 LPI if your skill level > is still 2 and the race recquire 6!?!? I don't want them to reset all the stats, just the LPI since that is being given new relevence. David G Fisher

> I guess that is my main gripe with this whole deal, NASCAR > Racing is supposed to be about racing, not who avoided > enough wrecks to race with a certain click. The lpi will bring people with a similar idea of what is 'good' racing together. As for having to build up an lpi, I can't see anything unusual with that. It's like everywhere else in racing - you start in a lower class, and once your skill level improves, you get to race against others of a similarly higher skill level in the next higher class. Achim "Admin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:n5jx8.79339$[email hidden]... ... > Not true, my LPI is 0 (thats zero) and I statisically win 22% of the racesI > run (since N4 came out anyway, was more IN N3/CTS and less in N3). Sosince > I run private, IP league races and have no ratings and no LPI stat, I have > to shlep through SS races on Sierra to buildup enough of an LPI to getinto > races with guys that are likely no better than me...I don't think so. I > thought this sim was supposed to be about racing, not who is good enoughto > race on certain servers...> >

Hi Ed, very well said <bg> Achim "Ed Solheim" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Tjjx8.4872$[email hidden]... ... > The objective here is not to see who got the biggest.... LPI (!)...

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > I like what Papyrus is doing with the new LPI a lot. I just disagree with > Joachim's statement that right now it's a perfect indicator of one'sability > to avoid accidents, and I gave one example as to how it can be misleading > post patch if it isn't reset. I'll say and say this again, NPI was a much better calculation! It was the average of 4 other equations, which were : NPI = Average Skill * SQRT ( LPI + LPR ) (by Bill Benedict) NPI = Average Skill * ( ln(LPI) + ln(LPR) ) / ln ( ln(max( 260, # races))) (by Richard Walker) NPI = Average Skill * LPI (by Steve Vandergriff) NPI = Average Skill * SQRT ( LPI * Top 5s / Races ) (Oh that brings us some memories of the good'old NROS days for many). -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote > Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > what rhymes on hooters?) tutors, looters, shooters(!), wooters, computers, recruiters, commuters, routers, supercomputers! -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

"Joachim Trensz" > Hi Olav, > > don't forget that there will be far less wrecks on the servers checkingfor > lpi than you see at the moment. I.e., once the lpi patch has been > introduced, your lpi will be much safer as much less accidents will happen > on the servers that check lpi (as obviously, drivers causing wrecks likethe > one you descrive won't be on these servers). > > Achim I tend to disagree with that I think, maybe.... Some of these wreckers take great pride in what they do, they achieve fairly high rankings so they can "invade" even the supposedly safer high ranked races....You will find, there are those who build a high LPI just to get in and attack you guys. Good luck dave henrie

"Andre Warringa" > Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > what rhymes on hooters?) > hmmm just off the top of my head....MORE HOOTERS! dave(ask me about rodeo sex someday) henrie

David G Fisher wrote: > You must of > decided at some point that you didn't want your primary ID to be negatively > affected by unavoidable incidents. Right? If I had used a second ID for just > the Papy server SS races, my primary ID LPI would be much, much higher. Which shows exactly how easily manipulated & therefore worthless the LPI measure is. -- Fester Hey nobody's perfect, not even myself 8) -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> 4/15/02

ymenard wrote:

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> I'll say and say this again, NPI was a much better calculation! It was the > average of 4 other equations, which were : > > NPI = Average Skill * SQRT ( LPI + LPR ) > (by Bill Benedict) > NPI = Average Skill * ( ln(LPI) + ln(LPR) ) / ln ( ln(max( 260, # races))) > (by Richard Walker) > NPI = Average Skill * LPI > (by Steve Vandergriff) > NPI = Average Skill * SQRT ( LPI * Top 5s / Races )

Sounds like a superior rating system to me. -- Fester Hey nobody's perfect, not even myself 8) -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> 4/15/02

Lol Dave. Us guys in the USPS uniform are just babe magnets, eh ? :) -John "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Sjpx8.7268$vX.3177@rwcrnsc53...

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> > "Andre Warringa" > > Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > > what rhymes on hooters?) > > > hmmm just off the top of my head....MORE HOOTERS! > dave(ask me about rodeo sex someday) henrie > >

"Andre Warringa" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:05:21 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >So IMHO, it's no more useful than the kind of ranking we've got now, of > >course, if you find people with 100 000 + laps and an LPI of 250 +, you > >can be pretty sure he's a clean racer :-) > > People, people, why so much discussion over something totally > unimportant like LPI values, when there are so much more beautiful > things in the world like LOVE? > > Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > what rhymes on hooters?) >

rooters, looters, cudas (pronounced down south as cooters, although you could spell it cooters and i often do) i see scooters posted. tooters, booters, duders, zoot suiters. ahem, back to homer here, (the blind guy, not the big yellow one) sutor (some arizona indian cactus syrup) tutor..... ok ok okay, i'll stop. this bothered me all day at work ya know.... had to write them down.... rob

Does anyone understand that rationale of wasting all that time to build up something that gets you into the better races, then go in and destroy it? -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Nipx8.275547$Yv2.69661@rwcrnsc54... > > "Joachim Trensz" > > Hi Olav, > > > > don't forget that there will be far less wrecks on the servers checking > for > > lpi than you see at the moment. I.e., once the lpi patch has been > > introduced, your lpi will be much safer as much less accidents will happen > > on the servers that check lpi (as obviously, drivers causing wrecks like > the > > one you descrive won't be on these servers). > > > > Achim > I tend to disagree with that I think, maybe.... Some of these wreckers > take great pride in what they do, they achieve fairly high rankings so they > can "invade" even the supposedly safer high ranked races....You will find, > there are those who build a high LPI just to get in and attack you guys. > Good luck > dave henrie > >

Your sig just about got me bucked off Dave.... -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Sjpx8.7268$vX.3177@rwcrnsc53... > > "Andre Warringa" > > Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > > what rhymes on hooters?) > > > hmmm just off the top of my head....MORE HOOTERS! > dave(ask me about rodeo sex someday) henrie > >

On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 04:20:46 GMT, "reverend rob" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>> Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. >> what rhymes on hooters?) >> >rooters, looters, cudas (pronounced down south as cooters, although you >could spell it cooters and i often do) i see scooters posted. tooters, >booters, duders, zoot suiters. ahem, back to homer here, (the blind guy, >not the big yellow one) sutor (some arizona indian cactus syrup) tutor..... >ok ok okay, i'll stop. this bothered me all day at work ya know.... had >to write them down.... > >rob

Thanks for the input people, where would I be without you guys! (probably rich and famous now :) Andre

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:

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>On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 15:05:21 +0200, Goy Larsen <[email hidden]> wrote: > >>So IMHO, it's no more useful than the kind of ranking we've got now, of >>course, if you find people with 100 000 + laps and an LPI of 250 +, you >>can be pretty sure he's a clean racer :-) > >People, people, why so much discussion over something totally >unimportant like LPI values, when there are so much more beautiful >things in the world like LOVE? > >Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. >what rhymes on hooters?) >

Computers...<G> Eldred p.s. Love? Bah humbug! -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <aa40is$7l2d8$[email hidden]>, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> writes: >Apologies if I repeat myself, but I brought one ID from 0 to 5 on RC's in >about a week, with an lpi of currently around 50 (Littlefeat). I raced >mostly on the fixed setup Papy RC Loop servers. But, the LPI is unrelated to your rating. You increase your rating by beating people, but you can improve your LPI simply by staying out of trouble. So, I might have an LPI of 300(I don't), but my rating doesn't increase because everyone in the field is faster. So in that respect, running in the RAS races would actually HURT me, as I've been the slowest so far in the 3 or 4 races I've run in. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Hi Dave, well at least they'll have to work really hard for it <g> Achim "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Nipx8.275547$Yv2.69661@rwcrnsc54... ... > I tend to disagree with that I think, maybe.... Some of these wreckers > take great pride in what they do, they achieve fairly high rankings sothey > can "invade" even the supposedly safer high ranked races....You will find, > there are those who build a high LPI just to get in and attack you guys....

Hi David, alright - I think we know each others views sufficiently :-) therefor let's just agree to disagree on a few aspects. Cya on the track (everytime I lap you) <beg,d&r> ;-) Achim "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Jtlx8.165129$%[email hidden]... .. > I couldn't disagree more...

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> In article <[email hidden]>, > [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes: > > > >People, people, why so much discussion over something totally > >unimportant like LPI values, when there are so much more beautiful > >things in the world like LOVE? > > > >Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > >what rhymes on hooters?) > > > > Computers...<G>

I wonder how long it will be before he comes back here asking us what rymes with bitch? :-) David G Fisher

In article <%Cqx8.42926$[email hidden]>, "Biz" <[email hidden]> writes: >Does anyone understand that rationale of wasting all that time to build up >something that gets you >into the better races, then go in and destroy it? Does anyone understand the rationale of crashing someone on purpose "just because"...? Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I said this in reply to David, who'd said something to the effect that he couldn't have raced much on Sierra.com if he'd tried to keep his lpi high. And I replied that I'd thrown myself into the melee and raced competitively even on the Papy servers, and still managed to keep the lpi high. I was mentioning this to show that racing competitively on Sierra.com's Papy servers is not mutually exclusive with trying to maintain a good lpi. Although there is a certain conflict of interests <g> Achim "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ... > But, the LPI is unrelated to your rating. You increase your rating bybeating > people, but you can improve your LPI simply by staying out of trouble.So, I > might have an LPI of 300(I don't), but my rating doesn't increase because > everyone in the field is faster. > So in that respect, running in the RAS races would actually HURT me, asI've > been the slowest so far in the 3 or 4 races I've run in.

Uncle Fester <[email hidden]> wrote in news:[email hidden]:

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> David G Fisher wrote: > >> You must of >> decided at some point that you didn't want your primary ID to be >> negatively affected by unavoidable incidents. Right? If I had used a >> second ID for just the Papy server SS races, my primary ID LPI would >> be much, much higher. > > > Which shows exactly how easily manipulated & therefore worthless the > LPI measure is. > >

Not necessarily- consider the extreme case of the "Jeckyl and Hyde" racer. He is playing the numbers game by having two IDs. One of these IDs has an LPI of +100 and he races clean with this one to protect the LPI. His other ID has a really cheesy login name (r0@D h@><0r or something) and an LPI of 3. Now if you're in a server with a minimum LPI of 20 restriction, you may be annoyed that such an obnoxious player can still join and race with you, but should be at least "safe" in the knowledge that he'll be driving sensibly as this is his pet "high LPI" ID. At the end of the day, it should mean better racing, even if some of the drivers have a penchant for annoying other people with different IDs. just a thought. Cheers John

Lol ! -John "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:TnEx8.183890$[email hidden]...

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> "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <[email hidden]>, > > [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes: > > > > > >People, people, why so much discussion over something totally > > >unimportant like LPI values, when there are so much more beautiful > > >things in the world like LOVE? > > > > > >Andre / continuing work on a romantic poem for his girlfriend (hmm.. > > >what rhymes on hooters?) > > > > > > > Computers...<G> > > I wonder how long it will be before he comes back here asking us what

rymes > with bitch? :-) > > David G Fisher > >

In article <TnEx8.183890$[email hidden]>, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> writes: >I wonder how long it will be before he comes back here asking us what rymes >with bitch? :-) That's COLD, David...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <aa6sjv$8a5c5$[email hidden]>, "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> writes: >I said this in reply to David, who'd said something to the effect that he >couldn't have raced much on Sierra.com if he'd tried to keep his lpi high. >And I replied that I'd thrown myself into the melee and raced competitively >even on the Papy servers, and still managed to keep the lpi high. But, you're also a fast enough driver to stay out of reach of most of the wrecker kiddies. I'm not, which means they can catch me and put me in the wall. It's happened a COUPLE of times now. I'll be adding a few names to the muzzle list on my server... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

>I wonder how long it will be before he comes back here asking us what rymes >with ***? :-) That's COLD, David...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure *** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

David G Fisher <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2Blx8.171581$[email hidden]...

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> > I like what Papyrus is doing with the new LPI a lot. I just disagree with > Joachim's statement that right now it's a perfect indicator of one's ability > to avoid accidents, and I gave one example as to how it can be misleading > post patch if it isn't reset. > > > It's worth pointing out that if anyone decide to create a new ID in the > aim > > of getting a better LPI - there will still one oher factor to think of - > the > > skill point... Which means that now folks have to start over racing for > > new skill point - cleanly! What good is your 800 LPI if your skill level > > is still 2 and the race recquire 6!?!? > > I don't want them to reset all the stats, just the LPI since that is being > given new relevence. > > David G Fisher > >

I don't believe anyone has stated its a perfect indicator. But its a reasonable indicator, that may get better based on what the patch does. If you chose to drive previously with no regard for your LPI, which has been part of your stats since N4, and I believe in some versions previous to N3, thats really in all honesty is your own fault for making the assumption that it didn't matter when clearly many of us thought it was and chose to treat it with some relevence. -- Biz "Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand alloys and compositions and,......things with molecular structures,....and the....." - Ash

On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:15:47 GMT, "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote: >I wonder how long it will be before he comes back here asking us what rymes >with bitch? :-) > >David G Fisher Well.. within a month she's going to move in with me so I wonder about the same thing :) Andre

"Eric Busch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aa4dps$bjv$[email hidden]... > This is the first time I've seen this reported. It would seem to be road > course specific, but I really don't have any more insight on it at the > moment... > > - Eric Heh, it turns out that another guy in the race got charged for TWELVE incidents, despite there only being 9 in the race! Hmm......

Hi Eldred, I have to lap them though... ;-) Achim "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ... > But, you're also a fast enough driver to stay out of reach of most of the > wrecker kiddies. I'm not, which means they can catch me and put me in the > wall. It's happened a COUPLE of times now. I'll be adding a few names tothe > muzzle list on my server... > > Eldred...

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) writes:

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>On Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:15:47 GMT, "David G Fisher" ><[email hidden]> wrote: > >>I wonder how long it will be before he comes back here asking us what rymes >>with bitch? :-) >> >>David G Fisher > >Well.. within a month she's going to move in with me so I wonder about >the same thing :)

Wow, THAT'S quick... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.