PC Gurus - HELP!!

I need some suggestions here. My own PC is a PIII450/V3/256Mb/SBLive. No problems other than it's S L O W. My (recently replaced) work supplied PC was Compaq PIII500/TNT2 32Mb PCI/128Mb/on-board sound. No problems, but S L O W. My new work supplied PC is another Compaq deskpro, 866/TNT2 out of the above/512Mb/on-board sound. All above running Win98SE This latest PC makes N2K2 playable BUT I get random Blue Screen of Death crashes at seemingly random times in N2K2 - pre and post patch. Appears so far not to have problems running work apps (MS Stuff, SAP). I thought it was maybe heat related but I'm not so sure now. I yanked out the 2x128 DIMMs leaving a single 256 in there then ran the game. Crashed very soon after entering a driving lesson. Swapped the memory out and thought I'd cracked it as it went for almost 2 full driving lessons before cacking out. I'm using the driving lessons as I can kick N2K2 off working at something while I do something else - it does also crash out whilst playing. The fact that I booted up the PC from cold having made the first memory mod and the game crashed quickly, but went on for longer the second time makes me think it's maybe not heat related. I'm gonna try a different PCI slot for the TNT2, then I'm gonna try my SBLive in there. But after that I'm out of ideas. Are there any diagnostic apps I could use out there? Any taxing 3D demos that I could kick off and leave running to stretch the TNT2? I can't afford a new PC for a good few months yet, but this 866 would really help tide me over. PLEASE HELP! Cheers, Mark Reading, UK

> Are there any diagnostic apps I could use out there? Any taxing 3D > demos that I could kick off and leave running to stretch the TNT2? If you want to find out if it's hardware related or not, take a look at tufftest http://www.tufftest.com/ It costs $9,95 but it has saved me a lot of time. It boots from a floppy and tests your CPU, Memory, HD's and so on, regardless if you have a working OS or not. You should test your PC constantly over many days, before you conclude that everything is OK. A single test will not always show any faults, even if you have a bad memory chip. It will not test your graphics very extensively. You could always run 3Dmark from Madonion for that, but it will probably just crash, and you would have no idea why. Jone.

On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:49:27 +0200, "Jone Tytlandsvik" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> >> Are there any diagnostic apps I could use out there? Any taxing 3D >> demos that I could kick off and leave running to stretch the TNT2? > >If you want to find out if it's hardware related or not, take a look at >tufftest >http://www.tufftest.com/ >It costs $9,95 but it has saved me a lot of time. It boots from a floppy and

Or try Sandra, great diag utility, with a free trial period. Get it from www.cnet.com. Andre

On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:03:22 GMT, [email hidden] (Andre Warringa) wrote: >Or try Sandra, great diag utility, with a free trial period. >Get it from www.cnet.com. > >Andre On the other hand - forget Sandra. The program is great, but I just read that annoying Spyware is included in the latest version: http://download.com.com/3302-2086-8606391.html Andre

Sounds to me like it's the TNT2 causing problems, especially since you are ONLY having probs in 3d games. And of course the TNT2 is a really shite video card anyway. See if you can borrow another vid card to test your system. The 3dmark suggestion is a good one to test stability, leave it looping for a while (just on the 3d demos) and see how you go. More than likely that the TNT2 crashes with the faster CPU because it is under more load, being used to it's capacity with a faster CPU. Oh, and your TNT2 does have a fan, right? If not, I have just found your problem. Rafe Mc On 26 Apr 2002 01:37:35 -0700, [email hidden] (Mark) wrote:

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>I need some suggestions here. > >My own PC is a PIII450/V3/256Mb/SBLive. No problems other than it's S >L O W. > >My (recently replaced) work supplied PC was Compaq PIII500/TNT2 32Mb >PCI/128Mb/on-board sound. No problems, but S L O W. > >My new work supplied PC is another Compaq deskpro, 866/TNT2 out of the >above/512Mb/on-board sound. > >All above running Win98SE > >This latest PC makes N2K2 playable BUT I get random Blue Screen of >Death crashes at seemingly random times in N2K2 - pre and post patch. >Appears so far not to have problems running work apps (MS Stuff, SAP). > I thought it was maybe heat related but I'm not so sure now. I >yanked out the 2x128 DIMMs leaving a single 256 in there then ran the >game. Crashed very soon after entering a driving lesson. Swapped the >memory out and thought I'd cracked it as it went for almost 2 full >driving lessons before cacking out. I'm using the driving lessons as >I can kick N2K2 off working at something while I do something else - >it does also crash out whilst playing. > >The fact that I booted up the PC from cold having made the first >memory mod and the game crashed quickly, but went on for longer the >second time makes me think it's maybe not heat related. > >I'm gonna try a different PCI slot for the TNT2, then I'm gonna try my >SBLive in there. But after that I'm out of ideas. > >Are there any diagnostic apps I could use out there? Any taxing 3D >demos that I could kick off and leave running to stretch the TNT2? > >I can't afford a new PC for a good few months yet, but this 866 would >really help tide me over. > >PLEASE HELP! > >Cheers, > >Mark >Reading, UK

"Rafe McAuliffe" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Sounds to me like it's the TNT2 causing problems, especially since you > are ONLY having probs in 3d games. And of course the TNT2 is a really > shite video card anyway. See if you can borrow another vid card to > test your system. The 3dmark suggestion is a good one to test > stability, leave it looping for a while (just on the 3d demos) and see > how you go. > > More than likely that the TNT2 crashes with the faster CPU because it > is under more load, being used to it's capacity with a faster CPU. > > Oh, and your TNT2 does have a fan, right? If not, I have just found > your problem. > > Rafe Mc

Haven't tried any of the suggestions yet - no time so far - but this cheapo TNT2 only has a heatsink... Mark Reading, UK

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>> Oh, and your TNT2 does have a fan, right? If not, I have just found >> your problem. >> >> Rafe Mc > >Haven't tried any of the suggestions yet - no time so far - but this cheapo >TNT2 only has a heatsink... > >Mark >Reading, UK >

So what are you waiting for? Just a little 486 fan or similar should do the trick, just screw it into the heatsink fins and you should be OK. Rafe Mc

Rafe McAuliffe <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > So what are you waiting for? Just a little 486 fan or similar should > do the trick, just screw it into the heatsink fins and you should be > OK. Well, I spent ALL WEEKEND dicking around with this sucker. Friggin Compaqs. Hate 'em!! Anyway, turns out it wasn't a heat problem. Want the long story? I'm too tired... Here's the highlights. Got the lid off the that desk-space-saving-POS-base-unit, placed a desktop fan at max power right on top of the sucker. Still crashing with N2K2. Installed 3DMark and ran through it's tests a few times. That should -really- stretch the card, right? No crashes. Hmmmm... The sound with the on-board device in N2K2 was pretty garbled. Let's run it with sound disabled... NO CRASHES! Sorted! I'll just bung in the SBLive (which I was gonna do anyway) and that 4-port USB card and I'm away. Nope. Startup, PC hangs. Remove USB card. Still no joy. Go round and round in circles for two days chasing old drivers that could maybe cause issues. Same pattern keeps repeating: PC hangs on startup. Restart, force normal as opposed to safe. Get 640x480 desktop 16 colours, a message about display not being configured correctly and the display properties box. Change to 1024x768 256 colours (max it will allow) and windows restarts. Now I get full control (higher res, colour depth etc). I can change these without needing a restart, I can run business apps and games no probs. When I reboot, back to square one with a hang on startup... Search registry for sound and vid stuff that could cause problems, go down to 256Mb from 512Mb (something on NV's site mentions problems with this amount of RAM in 98SE systems). Nuttin. It's gotta be graphics issues, right? I mean, that's what the message keeps complaining about. Into the (extremely limited) BIOS. PCI devices. The graphics and sound are sharing IRQ 5. Hmmmm... There's nothing I can change this setting to that isn't in conflict with another device. Remove SBLive, reboot. 98 auto re-installs on board "Soundmax" sound. Reboot to my heart's content with no hangs. Into N2K2. What's this? No garbled sound? No crashes? WHAT THE F*CK!?!?!? This was last thing last night and I have an enormous headache now. I would rather use the SBLive as I like 3D audio and I've got my Creative FPS to utilise, but looks like that's not gonna happen. Oh well. Tonight I will configure all my game controller gear. I don't expect things to go smoothly... Mark Reading, UK

On 29 Apr 2002 00:23:49 -0700, [email hidden] (Mark) wrote: >Well, I spent ALL WEEKEND dicking around with this sucker. Friggin >Compaqs. Hate 'em!! >SNIP >Oh well. Tonight I will configure all my game controller gear. I >don't expect things to go smoothly... > >Mark >Reading, UK Mark, welcome to the wonderful world of computers! Who are we mere mortals to try and fathom why these things take the twists that they do? Sorry to hear it was such a bitch, but alls well that ends well huh? Good luck with that nice Momo, I'll be picking one up for myself shortly :) Rafe Mc

Mark, you probably have, but if you haven't, have you tried to disable the onboard sound in the BIOS. You could be getting a conflict there. Or/also, try installing your sound card in a different slot. Sometimes they just plain object to the positioning. Get the latest sound drivers, if you haven't already, from the Creative web site. -- Chris H. "Mark" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Rafe McAuliffe <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > > > So what are you waiting for? Just a little 486 fan or similar should > > do the trick, just screw it into the heatsink fins and you should be > > OK. > > Well, I spent ALL WEEKEND dicking around with this sucker. Friggin > Compaqs. Hate 'em!! > > Anyway, turns out it wasn't a heat problem. Want the long story? I'm > too tired... Here's the highlights. > > Got the lid off the that desk-space-saving-POS-base-unit, placed a > desktop fan at max power right on top of the sucker. Still crashing > with N2K2. Installed 3DMark and ran through it's tests a few times. > That should -really- stretch the card, right? No crashes. Hmmmm... > The sound with the on-board device in N2K2 was pretty garbled. Let's > run it with sound disabled... NO CRASHES! > > Sorted! I'll just bung in the SBLive (which I was gonna do anyway) > and that 4-port USB card and I'm away. > > Nope. > > Startup, PC hangs. Remove USB card. Still no joy. Go round and > round in circles for two days chasing old drivers that could maybe > cause issues. Same pattern keeps repeating: > > PC hangs on startup. Restart, force normal as opposed to safe. Get > 640x480 desktop 16 colours, a message about display not being > configured correctly and the display properties box. Change to > 1024x768 256 colours (max it will allow) and windows restarts. Now I > get full control (higher res, colour depth etc). I can change these > without needing a restart, I can run business apps and games no probs. > When I reboot, back to square one with a hang on startup... > Search registry for sound and vid stuff that could cause problems, go > down to 256Mb from 512Mb (something on NV's site mentions problems > with this amount of RAM in 98SE systems). Nuttin. > > It's gotta be graphics issues, right? I mean, that's what the message > keeps complaining about. > > Into the (extremely limited) BIOS. PCI devices. The graphics and > sound are sharing IRQ 5. Hmmmm... There's nothing I can change this > setting to that isn't in conflict with another device. > > Remove SBLive, reboot. 98 auto re-installs on board "Soundmax" sound. > > Reboot to my heart's content with no hangs. > > Into N2K2. What's this? No garbled sound? No crashes? WHAT THE > F*CK!?!?!? > > This was last thing last night and I have an enormous headache now. > > I would rather use the SBLive as I like 3D audio and I've got my > Creative FPS to utilise, but looks like that's not gonna happen. > > Oh well. Tonight I will configure all my game controller gear. I > don't expect things to go smoothly... > > Mark > Reading, UK >

"Chris H." <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<RHdz8.221219$[email hidden]>... > Mark, you probably have, but if you haven't, have you tried to disable > the onboard sound in the BIOS. You could be getting a conflict there. > Or/also, try installing your sound card in a different slot. Sometimes > they just plain object to the positioning. Get the latest sound > drivers, if you haven't already, from the Creative web site. > -- Thanx for the pointers, guys. I've now got gfx & SBLive working by manually setting IRQs in BIOS (nowhere to disable on-board audio that I can find). I've got 5 PCI devies sharing 3 IRQs, but I've made sure nothing conflicts with gfx. Man, after being used to a PIII450 / V3, this P866 + TNT2 is sweet as a nut. Really gets me hankering for the kick ass box that I'll be inline for in a few months (after garage conversion, etc is complete...). I've still got issues to resolve (like not being able to get online hence delayed Google posts from work, the 2 PC LAN refusing to see this PC) but movement appears to forward rather than circular... Next question: Given that I can only go PCI and the 866Mhz processor speed, will a Creative GeForce 2MX give me a noticable framerate improvement? Cheers, Mark Reading, UK Maybe, just maybe, you'll see me on RASCAR soon in the #69 Cadbury's Caramel Car. Can I reserve this number?

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>Next question: Given that I can only go PCI and the 866Mhz processor >speed, will a Creative GeForce 2MX give me a noticable framerate >improvement? > >Cheers, > >Mark >Reading, UK > >Maybe, just maybe, you'll see me on RASCAR soon in the #69 Cadbury's >Caramel >Car. Can I reserve this number?

Noticeable but not huge. Get yourself a GF2 pro, ultra, or ti, make sure its a DDR version. That'd be a great match for an 866mhz, pci wouldn't be a big issue. The difference is probably an extra 50-80% with the GF2 MX, or around 150 to 300% by going for a DDR GF2. Rafe Mc

Rafe McAuliffe wrote:

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> > >Next question: Given that I can only go PCI and the 866Mhz processor > >speed, will a Creative GeForce 2MX give me a noticable framerate > >improvement? > > > >Cheers, > > > >Mark > >Reading, UK > > > >Maybe, just maybe, you'll see me on RASCAR soon in the #69 Cadbury's > >Caramel > >Car. Can I reserve this number? > > Noticeable but not huge. Get yourself a GF2 pro, ultra, or ti, make > sure its a DDR version. That'd be a great match for an 866mhz, pci > wouldn't be a big issue. > > The difference is probably an extra 50-80% with the GF2 MX, or around > 150 to 300% by going for a DDR GF2.

I don't think the Geforce cards come in any higher spec than GF2 MX400 in PCI, or have I missed something ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--