Re: SS passing

Heck no, that is the problem with the plate tracks, too many impatient drivers that want to get to the front. I guess they don't realize that if they eventually get to the front there will be another train that drafts right on by them. I have been racing since Hawaii, and have always found the best thing to do at the plate tracks is to just get settled in, passing only when really necessary, find a guy or two that will hang with you, and enjoy the race. I would much rather finish 5th at a plate race than get taken out by folks trying to go for the win early on. I was having a really good race early on with a couple of guys, who were patient and we all settled in. If not for the cautions, we probably would have pulled away into about a 4-5 car pack. Patience is the key to these races, settle in and be patient, and let the rest take care of itself. You'll have much funner races that way, and really that goes for about any track.. Don Burnette "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aah2ul$ajp0t$[email hidden]... > Yesterday during the Dega practice I noticed that while I was draftingwith > someone, quite frequently cars behind me instead of staying in the draftand > trying to make the group faster, dove down entering T1 or T3 using the > excess speed they got from the draft and basically squeezed me out of the > draft. > > I remember in GPL Dega races I always waited until the very last lapbefore

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> attacking as usually, due to the draft, the car you just passed would get > its position back easily within a lap or two by playing the same game in > reverse. So what's the purpose behind this tactic? > > I'd like to ask the experienced SS drivers among you, is that a game one > should play in the race (trying to squeeze the guy ahead out of the draft) > all race long, or is that something that should be left to the last lap(s) > when setting yourself up to be in a good position for crossing the s/f

line? > > Achim > > >

For me, depends. If it's for the lead, i.e., and I'd like five points for leading a lap, might try it if it's safe, etc. Another scenario where I do it is if, say, there's some cars behind you. Get under the guy ahead, and you can freight train him to the back. I normally like to just ride around, try to stay in the top ten, until late in the race though. Unless it's something along the examples above, it doesn't serve much purpose really. -John "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aah2ul$ajp0t$[email hidden]... > Yesterday during the Dega practice I noticed that while I was draftingwith > someone, quite frequently cars behind me instead of staying in the draftand > trying to make the group faster, dove down entering T1 or T3 using the > excess speed they got from the draft and basically squeezed me out of the > draft. > > I remember in GPL Dega races I always waited until the very last lapbefore

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> attacking as usually, due to the draft, the car you just passed would get > its position back easily within a lap or two by playing the same game in > reverse. So what's the purpose behind this tactic? > > I'd like to ask the experienced SS drivers among you, is that a game one > should play in the race (trying to squeeze the guy ahead out of the draft) > all race long, or is that something that should be left to the last lap(s) > when setting yourself up to be in a good position for crossing the s/f

line? > > Achim > >

Joachim Trensz wrote:

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> > Yesterday during the Dega practice I noticed that while I was drafting with > someone, quite frequently cars behind me instead of staying in the draft and > trying to make the group faster, dove down entering T1 or T3 using the > excess speed they got from the draft and basically squeezed me out of the > draft. > > I remember in GPL Dega races I always waited until the very last lap before > attacking as usually, due to the draft, the car you just passed would get > its position back easily within a lap or two by playing the same game in > reverse. So what's the purpose behind this tactic? > > I'd like to ask the experienced SS drivers among you, is that a game one > should play in the race (trying to squeeze the guy ahead out of the draft) > all race long, or is that something that should be left to the last lap(s) > when setting yourself up to be in a good position for crossing the s/f line?

I've never been particularly good at the SS, give me a road course any day :-), but I've always figured that the first 90% of the race was about staying out of trouble, working with others and maybe making a break for it if possible if you find a pack of drivers willing to work with you, I usually don't pass cars unless they're actually slowing me down or driving badly, and even then I only do it as a self preservation thing, don't want to lose the draft or get caught up in a wreck Last night I was in a 4 car group that worked very well, for what little green flag racing we had at the time, it was led by GrantR and nobody even attempted to pass, I was the tail car and we stayed in line, or as in my case drifted to the outside a little bit once in a while to slow myself down without having to lift (can't believe how bad the throttle response is at the plate tracks), worked very well and we did some decent lap times, of course we weren't breaking away from anything since we were running 10th-13th or something at the time :-), but it looked like we were gaining on the cars in front Of course, when you have this many yellows, it's a moot point really, all you have to do is keep you car in one piece and you'll eventually catch up to the field again during a yellow With Dega and Daytona, it's not possible for a single car, or even two cars to get away from the field, assuming we're dealing with half decent drivers here, at Atlanta, Texas or Cali I can understand trying to get up fron and making a break for it, but at the plate tracks we run flat out all the time, and with fixed setups and all the chassis being equal, noone has an advantage anyway On the other hand, I've only ever won 2 races at Dega....:-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

Joachim, there is, as I see it, a two pronged answer to this: 1. Patience is a virtue that not all of us were born with, it seems, some folks just have to go to the front, regardless of how risky/inconsiderate the maneuver may be, and yes, we often pass them right back at the next opportunity, or when they crash (more than likely). These same moves may be perfectly acceptable towards the later stages of a race, but during the beginning/middle stages are just uncalled for. 2. That being said, it IS almost always safer at the front of the pack, not that you're any less likely to be involved in a racing incident, but because you won't be part of the pack that is racing headlong INTO the carnage at 180+ mph when the incidents occur.....the part that bothers me about your description of the passes was that people were diving down into the turns......this is a recipe for disaster, as the car ahead may just decide to come down on his normal line as usual, or, just as likely, the car doing the diving can either touch the apron and slam back up into the pack, or just plain have to slide up the track to make the turn, either way he'll probably find his competitors up there, and you all know the rest. I find it easier to setup a pass coming off the turns, drag race down the straight alongside so your position is clearly known, and take the spot entering the next turn......of course, with 1-2 laps to go, all bets are off. You did say that this was happening during practice, and that is the time for trying things that you may not want to try during the race, so, no harm, no foul, I guess....... Ed "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aah2ul$ajp0t$[email hidden]... > Yesterday during the Dega practice I noticed that while I was draftingwith > someone, quite frequently cars behind me instead of staying in the draftand > trying to make the group faster, dove down entering T1 or T3 using the > excess speed they got from the draft and basically squeezed me out of the > draft. > > I remember in GPL Dega races I always waited until the very last lapbefore

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> attacking as usually, due to the draft, the car you just passed would get > its position back easily within a lap or two by playing the same game in > reverse. So what's the purpose behind this tactic? > > I'd like to ask the experienced SS drivers among you, is that a game one > should play in the race (trying to squeeze the guy ahead out of the draft) > all race long, or is that something that should be left to the last lap(s) > when setting yourself up to be in a good position for crossing the s/f

line? > > Achim > >

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aah2ul$ajp0t$[email hidden]... > Yesterday during the Dega practice I noticed that while I was draftingwith > someone, quite frequently cars behind me instead of staying in the draftand > trying to make the group faster, dove down entering T1 or T3 using the > excess speed they got from the draft and basically squeezed me out of the > draft. > > I remember in GPL Dega races I always waited until the very last lapbefore

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> attacking as usually, due to the draft, the car you just passed would get > its position back easily within a lap or two by playing the same game in > reverse. So what's the purpose behind this tactic? > > I'd like to ask the experienced SS drivers among you, is that a game one > should play in the race (trying to squeeze the guy ahead out of the draft) > all race long, or is that something that should be left to the last lap(s) > when setting yourself up to be in a good position for crossing the s/f

line? > > Achim I think it shows the mentality of your co-racer, Obviously the fastest way to get around a SS is to line up and draft. However, I'm sure there are plenty of folks who find that boring. So rather than tap the brakes, or lift slightly off the throttle, they take any chance they can to pass. You can offer to draft together with the chat keys but they still may not want to play the 'patience game.' You also said they force you out of the draft, by that do you mean they cause you to lose contact with the car/cars ahead of you? Even if you are side by side, you should be able to tuck in and gain back most of the speed. However, if your partner keeps trying to pass, he will slow your group down and I guess you could lose contact. dave henrie

Joachim Trensz wrote: > Yep, that pretty much sums it up if you ask me, but in that sense, why have Dega races longer than 5 laps ? :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

Because alot of other things can happen, and not just wrecks :) -John "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Joachim Trensz wrote: > > > > Yep, that pretty much sums it up if you ask me, but in that sense, why > have Dega races longer than 5 laps ? :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

John Pancoast wrote: > > Because alot of other things can happen, and not just wrecks :) Well, there's a first for everything :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Probably what you would want to do is let the guy that can lead the draft the fastest(believe it or not some are better than others at this) . If you get a guy that insists on diving under people and going to the front regardless of how many laps there are, the best thing to do is hang him out and if nobody works with him he'll have to stay back or learn. In any case if you can get a breakaway from the main group the best thing to do is just draft until maybe the last 5 laps or so. If you have two lines and can get out in front you can work them both and be able to hold off both lines since they will be battling with each other for position. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aah2ul$ajp0t$[email hidden]... > Yesterday during the Dega practice I noticed that while I was drafting with > someone, quite frequently cars behind me instead of staying in the draft and > trying to make the group faster, dove down entering T1 or T3 using the > excess speed they got from the draft and basically squeezed me out of the > draft. > > I remember in GPL Dega races I always waited until the very last lap before > attacking as usually, due to the draft, the car you just passed would get > its position back easily within a lap or two by playing the same game in > reverse. So what's the purpose behind this tactic? > > I'd like to ask the experienced SS drivers among you, is that a game one > should play in the race (trying to squeeze the guy ahead out of the draft) > all race long, or is that something that should be left to the last lap(s) > when setting yourself up to be in a good position for crossing the s/f line? > > Achim > >

One thing you do have to remember is that the line thru the turns is low and if you don't fill that in time someone will because it is easier than getting on the brakes. As I approach the turn I slowly turn into it and the driver behind me gets the feel for where I'm going. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aah7rm$ar3aa$[email hidden]... > Hi Dave, > > when I saw them dive down behind me just before entering the corner, of > course I didn't follow the cars ahead of me onto the lower line but stayed > higher up to give the 'driver' room, thus losing contact with the draft > momentarily. > > I did of course fall back in line behind the 'diver', but thought that this > maneuver didn't make much sense as I could have gotten the position back by > doing the same two corners later. > > If I understand aerodynamics right, this maneuver slows the entire train > down for basically nothing, it's risky as it can only work if the car ahead > cooperates a lot and yields his position easily, and it's a maneuver without > merit as you aren't making this pass by virtue of better driving or tactics, > but by virtue of the guy's in front of you higher maturity and determination > to avoid an accident. > > On a side note, while just squeezing your front bumper beside someone elses > rear bumper isn't a good pass ever, on tracks where you can pull away from > another car after such a pass by virtue of better driving, or if perhaps the > car in front of you permanently choses a very wide line and leaves the door > wide open upon entry into a corner during many laps, I would perceive such a > maneuver as sensible. > > But on an SS, when all cars drive the same line and nobody can drive faster > due to the known restrictions, it all in all appeared strange enough that I > decided I needed to ask the experts :-) > > Achim > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ruUy8.18290$ao1.8323@rwcrnsc54... > ... > > You also said they force you out of the draft, by that do you mean they > > cause you to lose contact with the car/cars ahead of you? Even if you are > > side by side, you should be able to tuck in and gain back most of the > speed. > > However, if your partner keeps trying to pass, he will slow your group > down > > and I guess you could lose contact. > > dave henrie > > > > > > > >

I like to think of it as a 200mph chess match. (-: -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Joachim Trensz wrote: > > > > Yep, that pretty much sums it up if you ask me, but in that sense, why > have Dega races longer than 5 laps ? :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

Yesterday during the Dega practice I noticed that while I was drafting with someone, quite frequently cars behind me instead of staying in the draft and trying to make the group faster, dove down entering T1 or T3 using the excess speed they got from the draft and basically squeezed me out of the draft. I remember in GPL Dega races I always waited until the very last lap before attacking as usually, due to the draft, the car you just passed would get its position back easily within a lap or two by playing the same game in reverse. So what's the purpose behind this tactic? I'd like to ask the experienced SS drivers among you, is that a game one should play in the race (trying to squeeze the guy ahead out of the draft) all race long, or is that something that should be left to the last lap(s) when setting yourself up to be in a good position for crossing the s/f line? Achim

Mike Grandy wrote: > > I like to think of it as a 200mph chess match. (-: 200 ?? No wonder you were racing up front :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Joachim Trensz wrote: > > Thanks for all the replies guys. Lots of interesting info in there for me! Speaking of interesting info...:-), what's a good lap around WG these days Achim ? Finally making some headway here with my replacement wheel, broke into the 15's last night with a very basic setup Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Okay, 180mph chess match. (-: Used to be 200. -- Mike Grandy www.precision-racing.com "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Mike Grandy wrote: > > > > I like to think of it as a 200mph chess match. (-: > > 200 ?? > > No wonder you were racing up front :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

Hi Dave, when I saw them dive down behind me just before entering the corner, of course I didn't follow the cars ahead of me onto the lower line but stayed higher up to give the 'driver' room, thus losing contact with the draft momentarily. I did of course fall back in line behind the 'diver', but thought that this maneuver didn't make much sense as I could have gotten the position back by doing the same two corners later. If I understand aerodynamics right, this maneuver slows the entire train down for basically nothing, it's risky as it can only work if the car ahead cooperates a lot and yields his position easily, and it's a maneuver without merit as you aren't making this pass by virtue of better driving or tactics, but by virtue of the guy's in front of you higher maturity and determination to avoid an accident. On a side note, while just squeezing your front bumper beside someone elses rear bumper isn't a good pass ever, on tracks where you can pull away from another car after such a pass by virtue of better driving, or if perhaps the car in front of you permanently choses a very wide line and leaves the door wide open upon entry into a corner during many laps, I would perceive such a maneuver as sensible. But on an SS, when all cars drive the same line and nobody can drive faster due to the known restrictions, it all in all appeared strange enough that I decided I needed to ask the experts :-) Achim "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ruUy8.18290$ao1.8323@rwcrnsc54... ... > You also said they force you out of the draft, by that do you mean they > cause you to lose contact with the car/cars ahead of you? Even if you are > side by side, you should be able to tuck in and gain back most of thespeed. > However, if your partner keeps trying to pass, he will slow your groupdown > and I guess you could lose contact. > dave henrie > >

That would have been my next question... <g> Achim "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > Joachim Trensz wrote: > > > > Yep, that pretty much sums it up if you ask me, but in that sense, why > have Dega races longer than 5 laps ? :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

I was planning on simply drafting in line and only passing someone if they were loose or slower than me. Hopefully I would end up with the lead pack and then in the last five laps begin to work my way up front for the final lap. It is better though to be up near the front so you don't get caught up in a wreck in front of you. Practice though was different. The group I was in was practicing their passing, taking different lines, and taking turns up front. David G Fisher "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aah2ul$ajp0t$[email hidden]... > Yesterday during the Dega practice I noticed that while I was draftingwith > someone, quite frequently cars behind me instead of staying in the draftand > trying to make the group faster, dove down entering T1 or T3 using the > excess speed they got from the draft and basically squeezed me out of the > draft. > > I remember in GPL Dega races I always waited until the very last lapbefore

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> attacking as usually, due to the draft, the car you just passed would get > its position back easily within a lap or two by playing the same game in > reverse. So what's the purpose behind this tactic? > > I'd like to ask the experienced SS drivers among you, is that a game one > should play in the race (trying to squeeze the guy ahead out of the draft) > all race long, or is that something that should be left to the last lap(s) > when setting yourself up to be in a good position for crossing the s/f

line? > > Achim > > >

>"Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote > I've never been particularly good at the SS, give me a road course any > day :-), but I've always figured that the first 90% of the race was > about staying out of trouble Yes. Here lies the problem of restrictor plate racing. Going up front = staying out of trouble (more cars behind you then in front) Going up front = creating trouble Perhaps next time let's take the plate off? ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

Thanks for all the replies guys. Lots of interesting info in there for me! Achim

"Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aahnti$ao9o0$[email hidden]... With a custom setup, the times are basically > the same to the left of the decimal point, with lower figures to the right > of it. I know 1:16's are possible, but haven't seen one on Sierra.com yet. > > Achim Roland Ehnstr�m qualified in our league race at 1.14.4, but Greger last season (with N4) did a Q lap of 1.13.576 and a race lap of 1.14.808....

Joachim Trensz wrote: > Hi Dave, > > when I saw them dive down behind me just before entering the corner, of > course I didn't follow the cars ahead of me onto the lower line but stayed > higher up to give the 'driver' room, thus losing contact with the draft > momentarily. Your description here sounds like it's related to a thread we all had earlier in the week. :-) Sounds like you were too worried about your LPI to slam the door on this guy going into the turn. Or maybe I'm just too aggressive. :-) I think DGF can vouch that I'm clean though. Just aggressive. That being said, you should generally stay in line & draft until 5 to go. Unless someone drifts high in a turn, then get around quick & back into line. -- Fester Hey nobody's perfect, not even myself 8) -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> 4/15/02

"Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Joachim Trensz wrote: > > Hi Dave, > > > > when I saw them dive down behind me just before entering the corner, of > > course I didn't follow the cars ahead of me onto the lower line butstayed

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> > higher up to give the 'driver' room, thus losing contact with the draft > > momentarily. > > > Your description here sounds like it's related to a thread we all had > earlier in the week. :-) Sounds like you were too worried about your > LPI to slam the door on this guy going into the turn. Or maybe I'm just > too aggressive. :-) I think DGF can vouch that I'm clean though. Just > aggressive.

Wrecker! :-) Those Coca Cola laps were a blast. It's very cool when you can go door to door with someone and trust them not to wash up into you even in corners as fast those. David G Fisher

Joachim Trensz wrote:

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> > Hi Goy, > > if we're talking about the fast guys on Sierra.com, using the default <fast> > setup, good laps are in the 1:15's and 1:16's, depending on the weather and > race length, with the odd 1:14 in Q. > > With custom setups, I'd say a good Q-lap is a 1:14, and 1:15's in the race > are ok. 1:16's if the weather gets nasty or the race gets longer. > > As for hotlaps, the fastest I've personally seen is a 1:13, but since that > lap was achieved without much practice or hard work, I think it's safe to > assume the fast guys are in the 1:12's right now. > > As for Sears, I'd say a few do 1:17/1:18 with the default <fast> setup, but > most others do 1:18's/1:19's. With a custom setup, the times are basically > the same to the left of the decimal point, with lower figures to the right > of it. I know 1:16's are possible, but haven't seen one on Sierra.com yet.

Ah, so I only need to find another 3 seconds then, good, I thought for a while I was going too slow.... Thx :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Joachim Trensz wrote:

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> > Hi Colin, > > I was giving Goy an overview of what to expect on average among the hotshoes > on Sierra.com. I don't think the personal fastests of the hottest of the > hotshoes was what he was asking :-) > > However... ;-) my fastest lap at the Glen in N4 was a ~ 1:12, at Sears it > was a 1:11. In N2002 I'm slower, my fastest (I haven't gone hotlapping, it > was more a byproduct) is so far a 1:13.9 at the Glen, and a 1:16.9 at Sears. > My fastest online was a 1:17.1 at Sears, I forget what I've done online at > the Glen - like I said, those fastest laps don't really matter - what > matters is what laps you can drive consistently in Q or R :-) > > Of course, Greger can beat that all, but then again, he must practice more > than 24 hours per day, they've got to have longer days up there in Finland I > think, and I'm just a regular hard working guy like everybody else... ;-)

Agreed, so I'm only 2 seconds off pace then....cool :-) But yeah, I was kinda wondering about a hotlap as well, never hurts to aim for the top does it ? :-) Never *quite* got there in N2, but it was close, and I'll remind everyone of that every so often :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Joachim Trensz wrote: > My goal is not to preserve my lpi, my goal is realistic, intelligent racing > and winning races - and part of that is knowing when you're in a strong > position and when you're not ;-) Well, you were there & I was not so I'll concede the point. But if there's air between your bumper & his, there's no excuse not to shut the door. This isn't F1 you know. ;-) > > What's your lpi again? ;-) I rest my case. :-P I don't know precisely at the moment, but it's in the 20-25 range. I do a lot of Papy SS racing. Only because I like big fields. -- Fester Hey nobody's perfect, not even myself 8) -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> 4/15/02

Joachim Trensz wrote: > > I don't really know about actual hotlaps. I'd assume the real hotlappers are > at least a second faster than my fastest, and probably even more. I was only joking really, never was much of a hotlapper, but for some reason, WG agrees with my driving style....no, that's right, there's only one style, oh never mind then I never made qualifying setups either, not special ones that is, maybe a minor tweak to get it to hook up better a the rear so I could nail the throttle a bit, but with the same general feeling as my race setup, then I know exactly what to expect on my qual lap I actually enjoy working on setups, my speed comes as a bonus of that I guess, cause I usually need quite a few laps to get down to competitive times, but at least I'm enjoying myself while doing so, love the physics/tire model of this sim :-) Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com http://www.teammirage.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

David G Fisher wrote:

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> "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > >>Your description here sounds like it's related to a thread we all had >>earlier in the week. :-) Sounds like you were too worried about your >>LPI to slam the door on this guy going into the turn. Or maybe I'm just >>too aggressive. :-) I think DGF can vouch that I'm clean though. Just >>aggressive. > > > Wrecker! :-)

Damn. Busted. :-P > Those Coca Cola laps were a blast. It's very cool when you can go door to > door with someone and trust them not to wash up into you even in corners as > fast those. Yes it was *very* enjoyable. -- Fester Hey nobody's perfect, not even myself 8) -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> 4/15/02

Hi Goy, if we're talking about the fast guys on Sierra.com, using the default <fast> setup, good laps are in the 1:15's and 1:16's, depending on the weather and race length, with the odd 1:14 in Q. With custom setups, I'd say a good Q-lap is a 1:14, and 1:15's in the race are ok. 1:16's if the weather gets nasty or the race gets longer. As for hotlaps, the fastest I've personally seen is a 1:13, but since that lap was achieved without much practice or hard work, I think it's safe to assume the fast guys are in the 1:12's right now. As for Sears, I'd say a few do 1:17/1:18 with the default <fast> setup, but most others do 1:18's/1:19's. With a custom setup, the times are basically the same to the left of the decimal point, with lower figures to the right of it. I know 1:16's are possible, but haven't seen one on Sierra.com yet. Achim "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ...

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> Speaking of interesting info...:-), what's a good lap around WG these > days Achim ? > > Finally making some headway here with my replacement wheel, broke into > the 15's last night with a very basic setup > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

My goal is not to preserve my lpi, my goal is realistic, intelligent racing and winning races - and part of that is knowing when you're in a strong position and when you're not ;-) What's your lpi again? ;-) Achim "Uncle Fester" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... ...

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> Your description here sounds like it's related to a thread we all had > earlier in the week. :-) Sounds like you were too worried about your > LPI to slam the door on this guy going into the turn. Or maybe I'm just > too aggressive. :-) I think DGF can vouch that I'm clean though. Just > aggressive. > > That being said, you should generally stay in line & draft until 5 to > go. Unless someone drifts high in a turn, then get around quick & back > into line.

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Hi Colin, I was giving Goy an overview of what to expect on average among the hotshoes on Sierra.com. I don't think the personal fastests of the hottest of the hotshoes was what he was asking :-) However... ;-) my fastest lap at the Glen in N4 was a ~ 1:12, at Sears it was a 1:11. In N2002 I'm slower, my fastest (I haven't gone hotlapping, it was more a byproduct) is so far a 1:13.9 at the Glen, and a 1:16.9 at Sears. My fastest online was a 1:17.1 at Sears, I forget what I've done online at the Glen - like I said, those fastest laps don't really matter - what matters is what laps you can drive consistently in Q or R :-) Of course, Greger can beat that all, but then again, he must practice more than 24 hours per day, they've got to have longer days up there in Finland I think, and I'm just a regular hard working guy like everybody else... ;-) Achim P.s., thinking of it, I think they have longer days in Austria as well ;-) "Colin Harris" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZJZy8.13834$[email hidden]... > > "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:aahnti$ao9o0$[email hidden]... > With a custom setup, the times are basically > > the same to the left of the decimal point, with lower figures to theright > > of it. I know 1:16's are possible, but haven't seen one on Sierra.comyet.

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> > > > Achim > > Roland Ehnstr�m qualified in our league race at 1.14.4, but Greger last > season (with N4) did a Q lap of 1.13.576 and a race lap of 1.14.808.... > >

I don't really know about actual hotlaps. I'd assume the real hotlappers are at least a second faster than my fastest, and probably even more. Achim "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Joachim Trensz wrote: > > > > Hi Colin, > > > > I was giving Goy an overview of what to expect on average among thehotshoes > > on Sierra.com. I don't think the personal fastests of the hottest of the > > hotshoes was what he was asking :-) > > > > However... ;-) my fastest lap at the Glen in N4 was a ~ 1:12, at Searsit > > was a 1:11. In N2002 I'm slower, my fastest (I haven't gone hotlapping,it > > was more a byproduct) is so far a 1:13.9 at the Glen, and a 1:16.9 atSears. > > My fastest online was a 1:17.1 at Sears, I forget what I've done onlineat > > the Glen - like I said, those fastest laps don't really matter - what > > matters is what laps you can drive consistently in Q or R :-) > > > > Of course, Greger can beat that all, but then again, he must practicemore > > than 24 hours per day, they've got to have longer days up there inFinland I > > think, and I'm just a regular hard working guy like everybody else...;-)

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> > Agreed, so I'm only 2 seconds off pace then....cool :-) > > But yeah, I was kinda wondering about a hotlap as well, never hurts to > aim for the top does it ? :-) > > Never *quite* got there in N2, but it was close, and I'll remind > everyone of that every so often :-) > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > http://www.teammirage.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

I used to hotlap in the days of GP1/ICR1 and GP2/ICR2. I lost interest when it started taking more than a 15 minute stint to beat the other guy's time. At that time hotlapping changed from a lighthearted friendly competition to teeth-gritting monster-hotlapping-sessions, and somehow the fun and nonchalance went away. The only hotlapping I've done ever after was when I tried to get below the 8min mark at the Ring, but that was three years ago. I just don't have the patience and stamina for nowadays' hotlapping (the Ring took me 21 laps, 3 per evening over 7 days). I also enjoy playing with setups, but on ovals, I use Papy's default <fast>. I somehow have a feeling I'm not good at doing oval setups <g>. On RC's I do my own, and use the same setup in Q as in the race, but with higher tire pressures. Sometimes I lower the wing a tad because the better grip on the first laps allows this, and tire wear isn't an issue. The physics of N2002 are indeed impressive. The only gripe I have with Papy's current physics model is that snappiness the car develops sometimes, where the steering starts jerking violently left and right. I can catch it, but find the effect too strong as compared to real cars. Off to work now :-( Cheers Achim "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Joachim Trensz wrote:...

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> I was only joking really, never was much of a hotlapper, but for some > reason, WG agrees with my driving style....no, that's right, there's > only one style, oh never mind then > > I never made qualifying setups either, not special ones that is, maybe a > minor tweak to get it to hook up better a the rear so I could nail the > throttle a bit, but with the same general feeling as my race setup, then > I know exactly what to expect on my qual lap > > I actually enjoy working on setups, my speed comes as a bonus of that I > guess, cause I usually need quite a few laps to get down to competitive > times, but at least I'm enjoying myself while doing so, love the > physics/tire model of this sim :-)

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If somebody gives me room to pass safely, I am going to pass them. It is better than slowing down, especially at SS. It is not a parade, it is a race. The only way they will pass me back is if: - I screw up and give them room - They are very much faster than me - They get some good drafting help Most of the time if you hold a low line and don't get too far ahead/behind the draft, you will not have any problems - assuming there isn't a big pileup happening right in front of you. Also, in the second case, it makes sense to let a faster car back around, so you can draft them. It doesn't come up much, though, unless you have aero damage. Gerald "Joachim Trensz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<aah7rm$ar3aa$[email hidden]>...

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> Hi Dave, > > when I saw them dive down behind me just before entering the corner, of > course I didn't follow the cars ahead of me onto the lower line but stayed > higher up to give the 'driver' room, thus losing contact with the draft > momentarily. > > I did of course fall back in line behind the 'diver', but thought that this > maneuver didn't make much sense as I could have gotten the position back by > doing the same two corners later. > > If I understand aerodynamics right, this maneuver slows the entire train > down for basically nothing, it's risky as it can only work if the car ahead > cooperates a lot and yields his position easily, and it's a maneuver without > merit as you aren't making this pass by virtue of better driving or tactics, > but by virtue of the guy's in front of you higher maturity and determination > to avoid an accident. > > On a side note, while just squeezing your front bumper beside someone elses > rear bumper isn't a good pass ever, on tracks where you can pull away from > another car after such a pass by virtue of better driving, or if perhaps the > car in front of you permanently choses a very wide line and leaves the door > wide open upon entry into a corner during many laps, I would perceive such a > maneuver as sensible. > > But on an SS, when all cars drive the same line and nobody can drive faster > due to the known restrictions, it all in all appeared strange enough that I > decided I needed to ask the experts :-) > > Achim > > > "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:ruUy8.18290$ao1.8323@rwcrnsc54... > ... > > You also said they force you out of the draft, by that do you mean they > > cause you to lose contact with the car/cars ahead of you? Even if you are > > side by side, you should be able to tuck in and gain back most of the > speed. > > However, if your partner keeps trying to pass, he will slow your group > down > > and I guess you could lose contact. > > dave henrie > > > >

Thanks John for this excellent explanation. Achim