RASCAR Reminder

I'm as disappointed as anyone about the Talladega race yesterday, but it looks like many of us are overreacting a little. I want to remind everyone that there have been 12 RASCAR races, and there have only been two that have been a problem. Pocono and Talladega. All the other races have been very, very clean. I don't think we need to make any changes in race frequency or put limits on who can join. Talladega (and Daytona) are tracks where people wreck, plain and simple. Even in real life there are wrecks there (like last Sunday when half the field was eliminated). I doubt you will ever see an online race at those tracks that resembles the real race where the drivers go three wide around the track lap after lap after lap. Yesterday was a mess simply because people were being too agressive, maybe looking to be the winner of the "big r.a.s." race. :-) How come nobody makes a big deal out of how yellow free the races were in the weeks before? Shit sells. :-) I expect the following races to settle back down and be clean, competitive races again. Maybe we can try Talladega again as a second race sometime soon and see how it goes. Driven appropiately with good drivers, Talladega and Daytona can be a real blast, as it was for me for about 25 laps in the practice session. David G Fisher

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uZYy8.218603$[email hidden]... > > Maybe we can try Talladega again as a second race sometime soon > and see how it goes. Driven appropiately with good drivers, Talladega and > Daytona can be a real blast, as it was for me for about 25 laps in the > practice session. > I definitely agree with this. A case of "if you fall off the bike, get right back on again and try again". Of course some people would say "do or do not, there is no try" :) I was going to suggest we race there next week but then I remebered that I'm not going to be around next weekend and I want another go. I'll be going to Rockingham (the UK version) to watch the opening round of the ASCAR season. Phil --- Racesim Central Administrator http://www.racesimcentral.com

"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > > I expect the following races to settle back down and be clean, competitive > races again. Maybe we can try Talladega again as a second race sometimesoon

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> and see how it goes. Driven appropiately with good drivers, Talladega and > Daytona can be a real blast, as it was for me for about 25 laps in the > practice session. > > David G Fisher > >

I forgot to add in my first post, why don't we follow the same schedule as NASCAR for the first race? I really think it helps to understand the races after you have driven them in NR2002. We have to watch out next week though. The NASCAR race is on Saturday at 7:30pm EST. Phil Lee --- Racesim Central Administrator http://www.racesimcentral.com

>"David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote > Yesterday was a mess simply because people were being too agressive, maybe > looking to be the winner of the "big r.a.s." race. :-) That's absolutely normal for any Talladega race. Everybody wants to go upfront. It has been like that forever online, since Hawaii. On a given race, even more with fixed setup, 90% of the field can win a race. We only know by name the opponents we have in that race, we don't know either their skill or their style. -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

>"Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote > I definitely agree with this. A case of "if you fall off the bike, getright > back on again and try again". Of course some people would say "do or donot, > there is no try" :) I guess some people read that a little too clearly before the race ;-) -- -- Fran�ois M�nard <ymenard> -- http://www.ymenard.8m.com/ -- This announcement is brought to you by the Shimato Dominguez Corporation - helping America into the New World...

> looks like many of us are overreacting a little. I'll second that. Now Tally was my one and only RASCAR race so far, so I may be a little out of place here. I still had fun even with all the problems. Granted the most fun I had was during practice. Eldred, Colin, and I hooked up and just ran laps. We took turns swapping the front. We were pretty quick and ended up getting up to 6 or 8 cars in a line at one point. The race had its wild moments, but I wasn't too worried about it. My only worry was I had to leave by 6 and with the cautions it wasn't gonna be over before then. People that take this too seriously are what IMO have put a big hurt on sim racing as a whole. Its a game people. There is not a single one of us that is a Dale Earnhardt or Jeff Gordon. Hell most of us probably aren't even a Shawna Robinson or Buckshot Jones. At least they don't wreck on the pace lap. So there is no need to make this into something that its not. RASCAR was created as a place to race and race hard without all the BS of Seirra. So lets not turn it into that. MadDAWG

David... I think you would have to agree that "rules" are as much a part of racing as the cars, the drivers, the teams, the track....they are part and parcel to an automobile race. Even "Friday Night Destruction Derby" events at your local dirt track.....have "rules!" The RASCAR races already have a substantial set of "rules".....those are the NASCAR racing rules coded into the sim. It is clear if you've ever raced on Sierra.com in an open pickup race......that those are not enough! What are we talking about here, a half-dozen guidelines to promote some fun, competitive races on Saturday....among a group of sim drivers with varied online racing backgrounds and experience? If something is adopted as a rule or guideline that does not work as intended, then remove it or change it so it does work as intended. A standard "RASCAR Drivers Meeting" form, simple to just fill out and post weekly on RAS, with a set of "rules and guidelines" at the bottom for everyone to see/review......simply allows the new guys joining the race each week to see what is expected of them as a participant.....and reminds the "regulars" of some things that might be unique to the RASCAR event. There's no "season points" involved, so all of this can be pretty simple stuff. RAS is a public forum/newsgroup. That means RASCAR races, by definition, are little more than a public pickup race.....essentially anyone can join in. I think that's great......but does that mean that no rules or guidelines are necessary? I think not. Its clear the cross section of participants on RAS is about the same as the general world population. A certain percentage of people don't like rules....don't want to follow them....don't care about the chaos that follows in their absence. On the other end of the spectrum, is the abuse of the "rule creation process".....by governing bodies/individuals. Somewhere in the middle is the rest of us. This is pretty much a "given" and debating about the need/no need for rules seems pointless to me. So, I'm shutting up. Tom "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uZYy8.218603$[email hidden]...

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> I'm as disappointed as anyone about the Talladega race yesterday, but it > looks like many of us are overreacting a little. > > I want to remind everyone that there have been 12 RASCAR races, and there > have only been two that have been a problem. Pocono and Talladega. All the > other races have been very, very clean. I don't think we need to make any > changes in race frequency or put limits on who can join. Talladega (and > Daytona) are tracks where people wreck, plain and simple. Even in real

life > there are wrecks there (like last Sunday when half the field was > eliminated). I doubt you will ever see an online race at those tracks that > resembles the real race where the drivers go three wide around the tracklap

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> after lap after lap. > > Yesterday was a mess simply because people were being too agressive, maybe > looking to be the winner of the "big r.a.s." race. :-) > > How come nobody makes a big deal out of how yellow free the races were in > the weeks before? Shit sells. :-) > > I expect the following races to settle back down and be clean, competitive > races again. Maybe we can try Talladega again as a second race sometime

soon

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> and see how it goes. Driven appropiately with good drivers, Talladega and > Daytona can be a real blast, as it was for me for about 25 laps in the > practice session. > > David G Fisher > >

What rules you feel should be enforced besides the 'sim' rules? "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NMez8.172411$CH1.126056@sccrnsc02... > David... > > I think you would have to agree that "rules" are as much a part of racingas > the cars, the drivers, the teams, the track....they are part and parcel to > an automobile race. Even "Friday Night Destruction Derby" events at your > local dirt track.....have "rules!" > > The RASCAR races already have a substantial set of "rules".....those arethe > NASCAR racing rules coded into the sim. It is clear if you've ever racedon > Sierra.com in an open pickup race......that those are not enough! Whatare > we talking about here, a half-dozen guidelines to promote some fun, > competitive races on Saturday....among a group of sim drivers with varied > online racing backgrounds and experience? If something is adopted as arule > or guideline that does not work as intended, then remove it or change itso > it does work as intended. > > A standard "RASCAR Drivers Meeting" form, simple to just fill out and post > weekly on RAS, with a set of "rules and guidelines" at the bottom for > everyone to see/review......simply allows the new guys joining the raceeach > week to see what is expected of them as a participant.....and reminds the > "regulars" of some things that might be unique to the RASCAR event.There's

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> no "season points" involved, so all of this can be pretty simple stuff. > > RAS is a public forum/newsgroup. That means RASCAR races, by definition, > are little more than a public pickup race.....essentially anyone can join > in. I think that's great......but does that mean that no rules or > guidelines are necessary? I think not. > > Its clear the cross section of participants on RAS is about the same as

the > general world population. A certain percentage of people don't like > rules....don't want to follow them....don't care about the chaos that > follows in their absence. On the other end of the spectrum, is the abuseof > the "rule creation process".....by governing bodies/individuals.Somewhere > in the middle is the rest of us. This is pretty much a "given" anddebating

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> about the need/no need for rules seems pointless to me. So, I'm shutting > up. > > Tom > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:uZYy8.218603$[email hidden]... > > I'm as disappointed as anyone about the Talladega race yesterday, but it > > looks like many of us are overreacting a little. > > > > I want to remind everyone that there have been 12 RASCAR races, and

there > > have only been two that have been a problem. Pocono and Talladega. Allthe > > other races have been very, very clean. I don't think we need to makeany > > changes in race frequency or put limits on who can join. Talladega (and > > Daytona) are tracks where people wreck, plain and simple. Even in real > life > > there are wrecks there (like last Sunday when half the field was > > eliminated). I doubt you will ever see an online race at those tracksthat > > resembles the real race where the drivers go three wide around the track > lap > > after lap after lap. > > > > Yesterday was a mess simply because people were being too agressive,maybe > > looking to be the winner of the "big r.a.s." race. :-) > > > > How come nobody makes a big deal out of how yellow free the races werein > > the weeks before? Shit sells. :-) > > > > I expect the following races to settle back down and be clean,competitive > > races again. Maybe we can try Talladega again as a second race sometime > soon > > and see how it goes. Driven appropiately with good drivers, Talladegaand

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> > Daytona can be a real blast, as it was for me for about 25 laps in the > > practice session. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > >

I agreed with just about everything you suggested in your "Restart" or Not!" thread. Some rules and guidelines couldn't hurt. With this thread I'm simply saying let's not overreact to the Talladega race and forget the other 10 races the were very, very, clean and competitive. David G Fisher "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:NMez8.172411$CH1.126056@sccrnsc02... > David... > > I think you would have to agree that "rules" are as much a part of racingas > the cars, the drivers, the teams, the track....they are part and parcel to > an automobile race. Even "Friday Night Destruction Derby" events at your > local dirt track.....have "rules!" > > The RASCAR races already have a substantial set of "rules".....those arethe > NASCAR racing rules coded into the sim. It is clear if you've ever racedon > Sierra.com in an open pickup race......that those are not enough! Whatare > we talking about here, a half-dozen guidelines to promote some fun, > competitive races on Saturday....among a group of sim drivers with varied > online racing backgrounds and experience? If something is adopted as arule > or guideline that does not work as intended, then remove it or change itso > it does work as intended. > > A standard "RASCAR Drivers Meeting" form, simple to just fill out and post > weekly on RAS, with a set of "rules and guidelines" at the bottom for > everyone to see/review......simply allows the new guys joining the raceeach > week to see what is expected of them as a participant.....and reminds the > "regulars" of some things that might be unique to the RASCAR event.There's

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> no "season points" involved, so all of this can be pretty simple stuff. > > RAS is a public forum/newsgroup. That means RASCAR races, by definition, > are little more than a public pickup race.....essentially anyone can join > in. I think that's great......but does that mean that no rules or > guidelines are necessary? I think not. > > Its clear the cross section of participants on RAS is about the same as

the > general world population. A certain percentage of people don't like > rules....don't want to follow them....don't care about the chaos that > follows in their absence. On the other end of the spectrum, is the abuseof > the "rule creation process".....by governing bodies/individuals.Somewhere > in the middle is the rest of us. This is pretty much a "given" anddebating

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> about the need/no need for rules seems pointless to me. So, I'm shutting > up. > > Tom > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:uZYy8.218603$[email hidden]... > > I'm as disappointed as anyone about the Talladega race yesterday, but it > > looks like many of us are overreacting a little. > > > > I want to remind everyone that there have been 12 RASCAR races, and

there > > have only been two that have been a problem. Pocono and Talladega. Allthe > > other races have been very, very clean. I don't think we need to makeany > > changes in race frequency or put limits on who can join. Talladega (and > > Daytona) are tracks where people wreck, plain and simple. Even in real > life > > there are wrecks there (like last Sunday when half the field was > > eliminated). I doubt you will ever see an online race at those tracksthat > > resembles the real race where the drivers go three wide around the track > lap > > after lap after lap. > > > > Yesterday was a mess simply because people were being too agressive,maybe > > looking to be the winner of the "big r.a.s." race. :-) > > > > How come nobody makes a big deal out of how yellow free the races werein > > the weeks before? Shit sells. :-) > > > > I expect the following races to settle back down and be clean,competitive > > races again. Maybe we can try Talladega again as a second race sometime > soon > > and see how it goes. Driven appropiately with good drivers, Talladegaand

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> > Daytona can be a real blast, as it was for me for about 25 laps in the > > practice session. > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > >

"Harjan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:AYez8.100175$[email hidden]... > What rules you feel should be enforced besides the 'sim' rules? The one that declares everyone has to have a weight penalty so I can keep up...thats a good rule imho. dave henrie

In article <aahnar$aogvg$[email hidden]>, "Phil Lee" <[email hidden]> writes: >I forgot to add in my first post, why don't we follow the same schedule as >NASCAR for the first race? I really think it helps to understand the races >after you have driven them in NR2002. We have to watch out next week though. >The NASCAR race is on Saturday at 7:30pm EST That might change on occasion. I'm in a GPL league that has races at 4pm eastern. I don't want to schedule a track that I like if I can't make the race. It's *good* to be the king...<g> I think we did Rockingham already, but I could run it again this Saturday to match the real race. Second race? Undecided as of now... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <aahnar$aogvg$[email hidden]>, "Phil Lee" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >I forgot to add in my first post, why don't we follow the same scheduleas > >NASCAR for the first race? I really think it helps to understand theraces > >after you have driven them in NR2002. We have to watch out next weekthough.

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> >The NASCAR race is on Saturday at 7:30pm EST > > That might change on occasion. I'm in a GPL league that has races at 4pm > eastern. I don't want to schedule a track that I like if I can't make the > race. > It's *good* to be the king...<g> > I think we did Rockingham already, but I could run it again this Saturday

to > match the real race. Second race? Undecided as of now... > > Eldred The next race is actually Richmond. We did Rockingham nine days ago. -- David G Fisher

I see......and I get your point....and think its a good one. Sorry. Tom "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:Vthz8.142579$[email hidden]... > I agreed with just about everything you suggested in your "Restart" orNot!" > thread. Some rules and guidelines couldn't hurt. With this thread I'msimply

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> saying let's not overreact to the Talladega race and forget the other 10 > races the were very, very, clean and competitive. > > David G Fisher > > "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:NMez8.172411$CH1.126056@sccrnsc02... > > David... > > > > I think you would have to agree that "rules" are as much a part of

racing > as > > the cars, the drivers, the teams, the track....they are part and parcelto > > an automobile race. Even "Friday Night Destruction Derby" events atyour > > local dirt track.....have "rules!" > > > > The RASCAR races already have a substantial set of "rules".....those are > the > > NASCAR racing rules coded into the sim. It is clear if you've everraced > on > > Sierra.com in an open pickup race......that those are not enough! What > are > > we talking about here, a half-dozen guidelines to promote some fun, > > competitive races on Saturday....among a group of sim drivers withvaried

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> > online racing backgrounds and experience? If something is adopted as a > rule > > or guideline that does not work as intended, then remove it or change it > so > > it does work as intended. > > > > A standard "RASCAR Drivers Meeting" form, simple to just fill out and

post > > weekly on RAS, with a set of "rules and guidelines" at the bottom for > > everyone to see/review......simply allows the new guys joining the race > each > > week to see what is expected of them as a participant.....and remindsthe > > "regulars" of some things that might be unique to the RASCAR event. > There's > > no "season points" involved, so all of this can be pretty simple stuff. > > > > RAS is a public forum/newsgroup. That means RASCAR races, bydefinition, > > are little more than a public pickup race.....essentially anyone canjoin

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> > in. I think that's great......but does that mean that no rules or > > guidelines are necessary? I think not. > > > > Its clear the cross section of participants on RAS is about the same as > the > > general world population. A certain percentage of people don't like > > rules....don't want to follow them....don't care about the chaos that > > follows in their absence. On the other end of the spectrum, is the

abuse > of > > the "rule creation process".....by governing bodies/individuals. > Somewhere > > in the middle is the rest of us. This is pretty much a "given" and > debating > > about the need/no need for rules seems pointless to me. So, I'mshutting

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> > up. > > > > Tom > > > > > > > > "David G Fisher" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:uZYy8.218603$[email hidden]... > > > I'm as disappointed as anyone about the Talladega race yesterday, but

it

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> > > looks like many of us are overreacting a little. > > > > > > I want to remind everyone that there have been 12 RASCAR races, and > there > > > have only been two that have been a problem. Pocono and Talladega. All > the > > > other races have been very, very clean. I don't think we need to make > any > > > changes in race frequency or put limits on who can join. Talladega

(and > > > Daytona) are tracks where people wreck, plain and simple. Even in real > > life > > > there are wrecks there (like last Sunday when half the field was > > > eliminated). I doubt you will ever see an online race at those tracks > that > > > resembles the real race where the drivers go three wide around thetrack

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> > lap > > > after lap after lap. > > > > > > Yesterday was a mess simply because people were being too agressive, > maybe > > > looking to be the winner of the "big r.a.s." race. :-) > > > > > > How come nobody makes a big deal out of how yellow free the races were > in > > > the weeks before? Shit sells. :-) > > > > > > I expect the following races to settle back down and be clean, > competitive > > > races again. Maybe we can try Talladega again as a second race

sometime

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> > soon > > > and see how it goes. Driven appropiately with good drivers, Talladega > and > > > Daytona can be a real blast, as it was for me for about 25 laps in the > > > practice session. > > > > > > David G Fisher > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

> I think we did Rockingham already, but I could run it again this Saturdayto > match the real race. Second race? Undecided as of now... > > Eldred > -- Hey Eldred, the real race is at Richmond this weekend, not Rockingham. -Kosmo

In article <NMez8.172411$CH1.126056@sccrnsc02>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>Its clear the cross section of participants on RAS is about the same as the >general world population. A certain percentage of people don't like >rules....don't want to follow them....don't care about the chaos that >follows in their absence. On the other end of the spectrum, is the abuse of >the "rule creation process".....by governing bodies/individuals. Somewhere >in the middle is the rest of us. This is pretty much a "given" and debating >about the need/no need for rules seems pointless to me. So, I'm shutting >up. >

I believe you volunteered to post some suggested rules. I mentioned that I would like to see them. I haven't seen them yet - did I just miss that post? I'm still interested. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

writes: I believe you volunteered to post some suggested rules. I mentioned that I would like to see them. I haven't seen them yet - did I just miss that post? I'm still interested. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure *** cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

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> In article <NMez8.172411$CH1.126056@sccrnsc02>, "Tom Pabst" <[email hidden]> > writes: > > >Its clear the cross section of participants on RAS is about the same as the > >general world population. A certain percentage of people don't like > >rules....don't want to follow them....don't care about the chaos that > >follows in their absence. On the other end of the spectrum, is the abuse of > >the "rule creation process".....by governing bodies/individuals. Somewhere > >in the middle is the rest of us. This is pretty much a "given" and debating > >about the need/no need for rules seems pointless to me. So, I'm shutting > >up. > > > > I believe you volunteered to post some suggested rules. I mentioned that I > would like to see them. I haven't seen them yet - did I just miss that post? > I'm still interested. > > Eldred >

I posted some "guidelines" (which includes one bald-face threat of retribution). :) -- ========================================================= DeMONS/1 for Nascar Racing 3 & Nascar Legends http://www.paddedwall.org/demons DeMONS/2 for Nascar Racing 4 and 2002 Season (in development) http://www.paddedwall.org/demons2 RASCAR Roster http://www.paddedwall.org/rascar Redneck Techno-Biker & "programming deity" http://www.paddedwall.org/john Barbarian Diecast Collector (460+ cars and counting) http://www.paddedwall.org/diecast If you want to send me email, go to the first URL shown above & click "Send Me Mail" in the contents frame. =========================================================