GPL - keeping it on the black stuff

Guys, How well do you "more experienced" racers do at not having mistakes while racing GPL? Having switched my attention (when I find time for it) from hotlapping to racing (against the AI, until I get better and/or upgrade my PC), I'm beginning to get frustrated with GPL for the first time since I started driving it, a couple of years ago. In other motorsports (notably R/C and karts) I'm typically not blindingly fast, but pretty consistent and good at avoiding other people's crashes and keeping it together under pressure. In a five minute / 15-20 lap off-road race, I'm typically disappointed if I need a marshal to put the car back on its wheels more than once - and that's with potholes and surface changes to cope with. In contrast, I've just done an Intermediate Short race at Mosport (as part of a season, since I hoped this would give me an incentive to keep going rather than quitting and re-starting). I qualified it 7th, with a pretty driveable setup - then on the first lap, fell off over that first blind, cresting left hander. In all, of thirteen laps (I got lapped by the leaders), just four were under 1:30 (I qualified in 1:24.65) and I'm fairly sure at least one of them had a "moment". So, what's the trick? Admittedly some of the above was frustration and attempts at overtaking back-markers which I just misjudged, but it's been typical of my season so far. Even when I feel like I'm in the groove and the car's working well, I'll suddenly find a wheel on the grass and I know there's no point even trying to stop it spinning. Help! :-( Jonny (sorry for the longer-than-intended ramblings...)

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> In contrast, I've just done an Intermediate Short race at Mosport > (as part of a season, since I hoped this would give me an incentive > to keep going rather than quitting and re-starting). I qualified > it 7th, with a pretty driveable setup - then on the first lap, > fell off over that first blind, cresting left hander. In all, of > thirteen laps (I got lapped by the leaders), just four were under > 1:30 (I qualified in 1:24.65) and I'm fairly sure at least one of > them had a "moment". > > So, what's the trick? Admittedly some of the above was frustration > and attempts at overtaking back-markers which I just misjudged, > but it's been typical of my season so far. Even when I feel like > I'm in the groove and the car's working well, I'll suddenly find > a wheel on the grass and I know there's no point even trying to > stop it spinning.

Mosport is a nasty track, and even the best drivers are more likely to have a "moment" there. However, I am a member of a league where I am BY FAR the slowest driver in my division. I qualify 12th-18th in most of our races. I tend to finish around 6th or 7th though. Some of that is due to other's disconnecting, but mostly it's because I have concentrated on staying on the track and not needing resets. In my mind these are the keys: 1. Practice. Know the track. Know how fast you can drive without crashing. Know how the car feels on heavy vs. light tanks, and on cold vs. hot tires. Know how it feels in traffic. 2. Setups: you can't be consistent and safe using hotlap setups. During the week or two leading up to a race I am tweaking my setup. Not to make it faster but to make it more consistent. Often I end up with a slower setup but one that I can drive without crashing. 3. Know how to recover when you do lose it. Our races are long, usually 1.5 to 2 hours. In that time I'm gonna make a few mistakes. So I practice making mistakes. What happens if I drop a wheel off here? Let's see. Where can I spin without hitting something? Let's find out. Combined with stable setups that let go predictably, this lets you make the occasional small mistake without ruining a race. 4. Attitude. Understand that the other guys are faster than you and don't go over your limits trying to get by them. If they're on your butt and likely to crash you, let them by. I'm never gonna win a race in this division but that's not my goal. My goal is a Shift+R-free race (not counting fuel stops).

Rob, could you describe some of the things that you do to make your setups more consistent. I have mostly been playing around with hotlap setups, and other than maybe adding some understeer (which I really don't feel comfortable with) I am not really sure what I would do to make them more consistent. I would appreciate your advice. "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:uxBA8.10366$[email hidden]... ><snip> > > 2. Setups: you can't be consistent and safe using hotlap setups.During the > week or two leading up to a race I am tweaking my setup. Not to makeit > faster but to make it more consistent. Often I end up with a slowersetup > but one that I can drive without crashing. >

In article <uxBA8.10366$[email hidden]>, "Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> writes: >I'm never gonna win a race in this division but that's not my goal. My goal >is a Shift+R-free race (not counting fuel stops). Have you done it yet?<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Jonny Hodgson ([email hidden]) wrote on 03 May 2002: <snip>

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> I've just done an Intermediate Short race at Mosport > (as part of a season, since I hoped this would give me an incentive > to keep going rather than quitting and re-starting). I qualified > it 7th, with a pretty driveable setup - then on the first lap, > fell off over that first blind, cresting left hander. In all, of > thirteen laps (I got lapped by the leaders), just four were under > 1:30 (I qualified in 1:24.65) and I'm fairly sure at least one of > them had a "moment". > > So, what's the trick?

<snip> If I knew that...! Seriously, Mosport is one of the hardest tracks in GPL - in some ways it's even harder than the Ring, as the time lost for one mistake constitutes a greater percentage of your laptime. I do best there if I don't try and wring the car's neck, but let it take more or less its own path around the corners. Be careful at the jump near the end - if you slam on the brakes in mid-air your nose will go down sharply, which works fine at the Ring's Flugplatz (which has a flat exit) but probably not here (which doesn't). Even with all that, it's one of my poorer tracks - GPLStat tells me (might as well plug my own utils! <g>) that it's my fourth worst, with my record (1:23.13) being 100.12% of the Papy time. Let's take the Glen as an example, as it's a track I've improved at a lot recently. Why? Firstly, I've driven it a *lot*, learning where all the little bumps and cambers are, which bits of dirt you can safely use and which not, and - most importantly - how to get through the Esses in a series of (*controlled*) slides rather than several point-and- squirts. In other words, the track itself holds no surprises, which allows me to concentrate on the other drivers (many of whom have this idea that the Esses on lap 1 is where to overtake four cars...). Something that's contributed a lot, too, is finding a setup I like and sticking to it, so that I'm confident of exactly how hard I can push. So I use Roland Ehnstr�m's excellent Ferrari setup both in qualifying *and* in the race, with 20 laps worth of fuel even in practice - in an Int Short race the few extra gallons don't make too much difference to your qualy time - maybe a quarter of a second. The result of doing this is that, while I used to be very happy with a 1:06.5, I'm now disappointed if I don't qualify in under 1:06... and because I've been using the same setup in qualifying, by race time I'm warmed up enough to know I can go fast, while keeping under full control. In fact, I generally circulate at around 1:06.3, which allows me a little in reserve when ten-tenths is absolutely necessary. (Which is another point: don't go flat out 100% of the time - you'll crash.) Another thing is realising early that the car's getting away from you, and knowing instinctively what to do. In most cases, that means lifting off, but there are one or two occasions when you need to keep your foot down (Malm�dy at Spa can be one). Equally, opposite lock very rarely leads to anything other than a spin. You *can* keep control on the grass, but not if you push too hard. And as Rob Adams says, you need to be realistic about your own abilities in relation to others. Very few of us are going to be able to match Greger Huttu for speed, so there's no real point overdoing it to keep him behind you. Let him past gracefully - there's always the chance his engine will let go, after all. And lastly, though you can use Shift-R in an Int race, don't do it unless you have to. It takes time, and if you've just had a minor spin with little or no contact, you'll lose much less time by just rejoining the track (carefully, as you can only see one car in the mirrors most of the time). HTH. -- "After all, a mere thousand yards... such a harmless little knoll, really" - Raymond Mays on Shelsley Walsh. The GPL Scrapyard: Back again! http://www.btinternet.com/~gplscrapyard

In article <aav8pg$e1ifr$[email hidden]>, Haqsau <[email hidden]> writes

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>Rob, could you describe some of the things that you do to make your >setups more consistent. I have mostly been playing around with hotlap >setups, and other than maybe adding some understeer (which I really >don't feel comfortable with) I am not really sure what I would do to >make them more consistent. I would appreciate your advice. > >"Rob Adams" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:uxBA8.10366$[email hidden]... >>

Dunno why but this article isn't available for so I'm replying to the follow up:

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><snip> >> >> 2. Setups: you can't be consistent and safe using hotlap setups. >During the >> week or two leading up to a race I am tweaking my setup. Not to make >it >> faster but to make it more consistent. Often I end up with a slower >setup >> but one that I can drive without crashing. >>

I would disagree that you can't be consistent with hotlap setups, or at least qualify that slightly. I used to find that I could regularly d/l and drive those hotlaps setups with no problem when I used a joystick. In fact I could keep things on the edge without too much difficulty and, if things were about to get out of shape, I was able to react quick enough to get it all back together before losing it. Since I've changed to a wheel setup I have found that my consistency has dropped off and I do make mistakes that I didn't used to make with a joystick. So, it's not the setup as much as it is the ability to control the car with more than one limb. With a joystick I only had to think about what my right arm was doing, which allowed for quick alterations in car control once I had realised what needed to be done to avoid a mistake. With a steering wheel and pedals you've got a lot more to think about. My awareness of what's happening hasn't changed, but my ability to do 'the right thing' or 'things' under any particular circumstance has. Now, I have to not only make the appropriate amount of steering control, but I also have to make sure that I'm either braking or accelerating just right - or both - in order to get the car to react consistently. And, It Just Ain't As Easy! As a for instance, going up the inside of the AI and outbraking them into Parabolica used to be a breeze with a joystick, but now I sh*t bricks when doing so, or generally wait until the s/f straight instead. Admittedly, I don't get as much 'wheel time' as I used to get joystick time (I was putting in some 15+ hours back then, whereas probably 3 or 4 now with a wheel) and that may also have some bearing on it, and so all I can suggest is 'Practise, practise and more practice' and hopefully you will be able to train your body to do 'the right thing' to avoid those silly mistakes. -- Peter Ives Remove ALL_STRESS before replying via email If you know what's good for you, don't listen to me GPLRank Joystick -50.63 Wheel -21.77

"Jonny Hodgson" <[email hidden]> schreef in bericht news:4mBA8.283$[email hidden]... > Even when I feel like > I'm in the groove and the car's working well, I'll suddenly find > a wheel on the grass Sounds like you may not be running with 36 fps. I had that too with my old system. The AI are taxing your CPU and frames may be dropped. When they are, your wheel and brakes don't work for an instant - enough to send you off the line. The frame counter in GPL is not very reliable, it doesn't show those short hiccups. Lower the graphics load (or number of AI cars) and see if that makes you more consistent. Bye, Leo

Haqsau <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:aav8pg$e1ifr$[email hidden]... > Rob, could you describe some of the things that you do to make your > setups more consistent. I have mostly been playing around with hotlap > setups, and other than maybe adding some understeer (which I really > don't feel comfortable with) I am not really sure what I would do to > make them more consistent. I would appreciate your advice. Copy that. I think I'm pretty good with setups, so that's not a major issue - but if I add understeer, I tend to fall off more often! David Buttery <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > And lastly, though you can use Shift-R in an Int race, don't do it > unless you have to. It takes time, and if you've just had a minor spin > with little or no contact, you'll lose much less time by just rejoining > the track (carefully, as you can only see one car in the mirrors most > of the time). I'm trying not to (though when I'm rotating gracefully in the grass a million miles from the track, I often give up) but I really can't handle the car once I've bent it :-( Ta for all the comments! Jonny

> > Rob, could you describe some of the things that you do to make your > > setups more consistent. I have mostly been playing around with hotlap > > setups, and other than maybe adding some understeer (which I really > > don't feel comfortable with) I am not really sure what I would do to > > make them more consistent. I would appreciate your advice. Almost all my setups are derived from older Greger Huttu Lotus setups. I started that way, like many Lotus drivers, because I figured there would be some magic in them that would automatically make me as fast as him. They didn't, of course :) These are the "GH" setups, not the "GH2" setups. I can't drive the GH2's. I don't seem to have a link to Greger's setup files anymore but I'm sure somebody will provide it. These setups are very stable already. I just try to add grip. All I normally do is fiddle with camber, tire pressure, and gearing: camber: I shoot for roughly equal temps across all tires; maybe a couple of degrees hotter on the inside edge. I usually have to take some camber out of most Huttu setups. He is a much more aggressive driver than I am (obviously) pressure: same thing, equal temps. I almost always have to take a couple of pounds out. This makes the car pretty sloppy for the first couple of laps but it gets better once the tires are warmed up. My starts suck anyway, and I just try to stay on the track for the opening laps. gearing: The Lotus doesn't mind low revs, and the fewer shifts you have to do the less chance of a screwup. A bad downshift can lead to a spin so I try to minimize the number of shifts per lap (within reason). That's basically all I ever adjust - I don't have a clue what to do with springs and dampers, etc. I just figure Greger did it right, and I leave it alone. I hardly ever do anything to the diff, but if the setup has some alien setting I will copy the diff settings from a setup that I know I can handle. If I can't find a "GH" setup (e.g. for all the add-on tracks), I just find a setup for a "similar" track and fiddle with gearing, camber, and pressure to suit the new track. For example: Keimola: I use my Kyalami setup Sarthe, Solitude, and others: I use my Spa setup Any flat airport track: I use my Silverstone setup Any hilly, off-camber track: Mosport Lately I've been driving the Cooper and Brabham occasionally. I just copy my Lotus setup to the appropriate car, and edit the gearing to suit the different rev limits, or copy it from another Cooper or Brabham setup for that track. That probably offends the purists, but so far it has worked OK for me.