F1 2002 demo - what are your impressions - best sim ever?

I've only played the demo for an hour of so and I'm impressed. I'll be buying it. How about you? Ronin

Not until it's seen that there's an actual, well working online aspect. EA's the champs at pre-release hype. -John "Ronin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:abf369$a6r$[email hidden]...

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> > > I've only played the demo for an hour of so and I'm impressed. I'll be > buying it. > > How about you? > > > > Ronin > > >

> Not until it's seen that there's an actual, well working online aspect. > EA's the champs at pre-release hype. -Yawn-, another predictable response from John. Do you actually like *simulations* John? Or do you just like online demolition derbys?

"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:abfb3b$hv9qc$[email hidden]... > > Not until it's seen that there's an actual, well working onlineaspect. > > EA's the champs at pre-release hype. > > -Yawn-, another predictable response from John. Do you actually like > *simulations* John? Or do you just like online demolition derbys? > I'm in a league(TPTCC) that has been based on mods for the papyrus Nascar sims and this year on the DTM mod for Nascar Heat. Some of the new mods for Heat have a very good driving model, like the Formula Ford and Aussie V8 mods...but "IF" F1 2002 could reliably host 12 to 16 drivers WITHOUT NEEDING ABOUT 100kbs of bandwidth for each driver, then I'd be pressuring our league to switch over to the EA title. Looks like the track guys are starting to figure out the N2002 tracks...perhaps will change back to Papyrus when they figure out how to junk the winston cup cars. dave henrie

Yep, busted. I hate simulations............"rolls eyes." Online racing doesn't matter to you, great. Does to me. Fair enough ? I'd be glad to not be "predictable", but flaming isn't my style. -John "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:abfb3b$hv9qc$[email hidden]... > > Not until it's seen that there's an actual, well working onlineaspect. > > EA's the champs at pre-release hype. > > -Yawn-, another predictable response from John. Do you actually like > *simulations* John? Or do you just like online demolition derbys? > >

On Fri, 10 May 2002 12:25:50 +1000, "Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote: >-Yawn-, another predictable response from John. Do you actually like >*simulations* John? Or do you just like online demolition derbys? I race with John in a league on a weekly basis and would have no problems whatsoever going side-by-side with him through a turn.

Hey Paul, thanks ! Cya at Lime Rock :) -John "The Black Cat =^..^=" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> On Fri, 10 May 2002 12:25:50 +1000, "Damien Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > >-Yawn-, another predictable response from John. Do you actually like > >*simulations* John? Or do you just like online demolition derbys? > > I race with John in a league on a weekly basis and would have no > problems whatsoever going side-by-side with him through a turn. >

"The Black Cat =^..^=" wrote:

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> > On Fri, 10 May 2002 12:25:50 +1000, "Damien Smith" > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > >-Yawn-, another predictable response from John. Do you actually like > >*simulations* John? Or do you just like online demolition derbys? > > I race with John in a league on a weekly basis and would have no > problems whatsoever going side-by-side with him through a turn.

Pffft, he's nothing but a slowass wrecker...... Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

Hey !!! That's FAST ASS wrecker to you, mister !!! <G> -John "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > > "The Black Cat =^..^=" wrote: > > > > On Fri, 10 May 2002 12:25:50 +1000, "Damien Smith" > > <[email hidden]> wrote: > > > > >-Yawn-, another predictable response from John. Do you actually like > > >*simulations* John? Or do you just like online demolition derbys? > > > > I race with John in a league on a weekly basis and would have no > > problems whatsoever going side-by-side with him through a turn. > > Pffft, he's nothing but a slowass wrecker...... > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

Ditto. I don't play the F1 games enough to justify buying just for new season/drivers and some graphical differences. If multiplay has been improved, I will be buying it though. On Thu, 9 May 2002 20:01:19 -0600, "John Pancoast" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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> Not until it's seen that there's an actual, well working online aspect. > EA's the champs at pre-release hype. > >-John > > >"Ronin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:abf369$a6r$[email hidden]... >> >> >> I've only played the demo for an hour of so and I'm impressed. I'll be >> buying it. >> >> How about you? >> >> >> >> Ronin >> >> >> > >

Tim Wortman North American Simulation Series www.nasscar.com

Yep, I'll pick it up, but like most, I expect to find the online aspect lacking. Hope to be surprised there. But with the reaction times you need in this thing, warping takes on a whole new dimension! As this is my first look at the new-gen ISI sim engine, I'll throw out a couple of questions and observations for the f1-2001 experts and others with more time on this one. Was the weird limit-behavior I'm seeing here common in that one? By that I mean the way the car acts in low-speed spins or near-spins; it seems to scrub off speed at first as you get into a high slip-angle situation and then get an odd boost, sort of like the old UBI canned spins. And if you get the car WAY sideways and yank it back straight with big opp-lock, the front sort of leaps sideways in a most unconvincing manner. (Using a LWF, (ALL aids off) on split axis with the DXTweak split-axis pedal fix; no controller problems - but they DO need to sort out the split axis thing) In replay, is it normal for the cars to float around like they do, moving laterally as if they were not constrained by the tires? Again, not at all compelling, physics-wise. You never see oddities like that in a Papy replay; other lesser ones, yes - but not anything so obviously odd. Maybe it's just a display thing and not a physics issue, but something *looks* very amiss. I can't see firing up a replay just to watch in this one as it is. A few problems; two or three hard lockups to date coming out of replay mode; had to hit the reset button - couldn't even ctrl-alt-del out of it. Also getting some stuttering graphics in rainy races, even when the FPS is reading high 40's-low 50's. (on an XP1800/GF4-4400(28.32's)/Audigy/256MB/98SE box, all graphics maxed @12X10 w/Quincunx AA & AGP ap. @64MB) Seems more of a load on the machine even with 7 AI than NR2002 with a 43 car field and similar graphics settings. In sum; fun with great sense of speed and wonderful tweakability (thanks ISI!), but the oddities that pop up leave it with a slightly *gamey* feel to it that I hope can be weeded out. YMMV, ;-) SB "Ronin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:abf369$a6r$[email hidden]...

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> > > I've only played the demo for an hour of so and I'm impressed. I'll be > buying it. > > How about you? > > > > Ronin > > > >

> Was the weird limit-behavior I'm seeing here common in that one? By thatI

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> mean the way the car acts in low-speed spins or near-spins; it seems to > scrub off speed at first as you get into a high slip-angle situation and > then get an odd boost, sort of like the old UBI canned spins. And if you > get the car WAY sideways and yank it back straight with big opp-lock, the > front sort of leaps sideways in a most unconvincing manner. (Using a LWF, > (ALL aids off) on split axis with the DXTweak split-axis pedal fix; no > controller problems - but they DO need to sort out the split axis thing) >

I think thats because of the driver aids that are on, like traction control

Thanks, but as I said in the post; "ALL aids off". No TC, no autoshift, no nuthin'. Just like Alesi... ;-) SB "drink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:YJQC8.189398$[email hidden]... > > > Was the weird limit-behavior I'm seeing here common in that one? Bythat > I > > mean the way the car acts in low-speed spins or near-spins; it seems to > > scrub off speed at first as you get into a high slip-angle situation and > > then get an odd boost, sort of like the old UBI canned spins. And ifyou > > get the car WAY sideways and yank it back straight with big opp-lock,the > > front sort of leaps sideways in a most unconvincing manner. (Using aLWF, > > (ALL aids off) on split axis with the DXTweak split-axis pedal fix; no > > controller problems - but they DO need to sort out the split axis thing) > > > > I think thats because of the driver aids that are on, like tractioncontrol > > > >

Damien Smith wrote: > > > Not until it's seen that there's an actual, well working online aspect. > > EA's the champs at pre-release hype. > > -Yawn-, another predictable response from John. Do you actually like > *simulations* John? Or do you just like online demolition derbys? The most important part of sim racing, for me, is online racing. I take it you prefer to play with yourself?

Steve Blankenship wrote: > > Thanks, but as I said in the post; "ALL aids off". No TC, no autoshift, no > nuthin'. Just like Alesi... ;-) Are you sure you *scrolled down* through the driving aids an turned them ALL off? Gerry

In article <7PPC8.132449$[email hidden]>, "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes: >In replay, is it normal for the cars to float around like they do, moving >laterally as if they were not constrained by the tires? Again, not at all >compelling, physics-wise. You never see oddities like that in a Papy >replay; other lesser ones, yes - but not anything so obviously odd. I'm guessing you are talking about player-controlled cars, but you see it with Papy AI all the time. Watch them go through the hairpin at Rouen, or Eau Rouge... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

This is NOT the point. Online capability may make F1 2002 far less appealing to some but it doesn't impact it's quality as a *sim*. His subject asks if F1 2002 is the "best sim ever?" Online play has no relevance to the *quality* of the physics engine and how close it is to reality. Online play can make it more feature rich and more appealing to a broader audience. Would the absence of online play detract from the GPL physics engine? -- Joe Marques "Gerry aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > > > Damien Smith wrote: > > > > > Not until it's seen that there's an actual, well working online aspect. > > > EA's the champs at pre-release hype. > > > > -Yawn-, another predictable response from John. Do you actually like > > *simulations* John? Or do you just like online demolition derbys? > > The most important part of sim racing, for me, is online racing. I take > it you prefer to play with yourself? >

No the F1-2001 replays are terrible, it just breaks down the path of the cars into straight line segments, even the player car... i hope they get a completely new replay system for the final "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <7PPC8.132449$[email hidden]>, "Steve > Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >In replay, is it normal for the cars to float around like they do, moving > >laterally as if they were not constrained by the tires? Again, not atall > >compelling, physics-wise. You never see oddities like that in a Papy > >replay; other lesser ones, yes - but not anything so obviously odd. > > I'm guessing you are talking about player-controlled cars, but you see itwith

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> Papy AI all the time. Watch them go through the hairpin at Rouen, or Eau > Rouge... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to

cure > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a > donation. Thank you. > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Yes. Because the GPL AI cars don't use the same physics as the player. Just like the EA games, and any game that doesn't allow good online play don't. IMO of course :) -John "Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:K9UC8.287$[email hidden]... > This is NOT the point. Online capability may make F1 2002 far less > appealing to some but it doesn't impact it's quality as a *sim*. His > subject asks if F1 2002 is the "best sim ever?" Online play has no > relevance to the *quality* of the physics engine and how close it is to > reality. Online play can make it more feature rich and more appealing toa

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> broader audience. > > Would the absence of online play detract from the GPL physics engine? > > -- > Joe Marques > > > "Gerry aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > > > > > Damien Smith wrote: > > > > > > > Not until it's seen that there's an actual, well working online > aspect. > > > > EA's the champs at pre-release hype. > > > > > > -Yawn-, another predictable response from John. Do you actually like > > > *simulations* John? Or do you just like online demolition derbys? > > > > The most important part of sim racing, for me, is online racing. I take > > it you prefer to play with yourself? > > > >

ok, i will tell it again. In F1 2001 you can choose different types of replays. The more detailed, the more hd-place they will take. Its all in the manual of the game. In the lower settings, it looks just like you described it. But in the real replays, it looks just as good as when you played it live "drink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:__TC8.3726$[email hidden]...

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> No the F1-2001 replays are terrible, it just breaks down the path of the > cars into straight line segments, even the player car... i hope they get a > completely new replay system for the final > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <7PPC8.132449$[email hidden]>,

"Steve > > Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >In replay, is it normal for the cars to float around like they do,moving > > >laterally as if they were not constrained by the tires? Again, not at > all > > >compelling, physics-wise. You never see oddities like that in a Papy > > >replay; other lesser ones, yes - but not anything so obviously odd. > > > > I'm guessing you are talking about player-controlled cars, but you seeit > with > > Papy AI all the time. Watch them go through the hairpin at Rouen, orEau > > Rouge... > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for researchto > cure > > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to makea > > donation. Thank you. > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > >

even on full it is nowhere near as good as playing it live or a papy replay "Andreas Nystrom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tYVC8.37253$[email hidden]...

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> ok, i will tell it again. In F1 2001 you can choose different types of > replays. > The more detailed, the more hd-place they will take. Its all in the manual > of the game. > In the lower settings, it looks just like you described it. > But in the real replays, it looks just as good as when you played it live > > > > "drink" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:__TC8.3726$[email hidden]... > > No the F1-2001 replays are terrible, it just breaks down the path of the > > cars into straight line segments, even the player car... i hope they get

a

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> > completely new replay system for the final > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <7PPC8.132449$[email hidden]>, > "Steve > > > Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > >In replay, is it normal for the cars to float around like they do, > moving > > > >laterally as if they were not constrained by the tires? Again, not

at

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> > all > > > >compelling, physics-wise. You never see oddities like that in a Papy > > > >replay; other lesser ones, yes - but not anything so obviously odd. > > > > > > I'm guessing you are talking about player-controlled cars, but you see > it > > with > > > Papy AI all the time. Watch them go through the hairpin at Rouen, or > Eau > > > Rouge... > > > > > > Eldred > > > -- > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research > to > > cure > > > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to

make

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> a > > > donation. Thank you. > > > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > > > > >

Good guess Eldred, and you're correct about Papy's rather special little AI dance, but no; I'm talking about MY car. In various views (with replay fidelity = "3" and the half rate = "0" higher physics rate setting when driving), the car moves laterally in an odd sort of digital-looking way, which makes the replays look bogus. Not lifelike at all, IMHO. I have Vsync off, as in all games, so I'm wondering if it might be a visual artifact of that - I'll have to enable it and give it a whirl. SB "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <7PPC8.132449$[email hidden]>, "Steve > Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >In replay, is it normal for the cars to float around like they do, moving > >laterally as if they were not constrained by the tires? Again, not atall > >compelling, physics-wise. You never see oddities like that in a Papy > >replay; other lesser ones, yes - but not anything so obviously odd. > > I'm guessing you are talking about player-controlled cars, but you see itwith

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> Papy AI all the time. Watch them go through the hairpin at Rouen, or Eau > Rouge... > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to

cure > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a > donation. Thank you. > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. >

I like the demo very much, Very real sense of speed for me. Its easy to get immersed into it. I wish there where a way to get rid of that annoying backfire sound though. On my system in sounds like a pistol firing as you grab gears slowing down. I don't know how realistic this is , but I find it annoying. Another thing, Is there a way to force the weather to be dry all of the time. The random weather is a bummer when you're trying to work on a setup. For a technology demo, I'm very impressed Dave "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:LtXC8.144243$[email hidden]... > Good guess Eldred, and you're correct about Papy's rather special littleAI

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> dance, but no; I'm talking about MY car. In various views (with replay > fidelity = "3" and the half rate = "0" higher physics rate setting when > driving), the car moves laterally in an odd sort of digital-looking way, > which makes the replays look bogus. Not lifelike at all, IMHO. I have > Vsync off, as in all games, so I'm wondering if it might be a visual > artifact of that - I'll have to enable it and give it a whirl. > > SB > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <7PPC8.132449$[email hidden]>,

"Steve > > Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >In replay, is it normal for the cars to float around like they do,moving > > >laterally as if they were not constrained by the tires? Again, not at > all > > >compelling, physics-wise. You never see oddities like that in a Papy > > >replay; other lesser ones, yes - but not anything so obviously odd. > > > > I'm guessing you are talking about player-controlled cars, but you seeit > with > > Papy AI all the time. Watch them go through the hairpin at Rouen, orEau > > Rouge... > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for researchto > cure > > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to makea > > donation. Thank you. > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > >

On the track select screen, there is a button at the bottom that gives you session options such as how many practice sessions, weather, etc. -- David G Fisher "DB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I like the demo very much, Very real sense of speed for me. Its easy to > get immersed into it. > I wish there where a way to get rid of that annoying backfire sound > though. > On my system in sounds like a pistol firing as you grab gears slowing down. > I > don't know how realistic this is , but I find it annoying. > Another thing, Is there a way to force the weather to be dry all of the > time. The > random weather is a bummer when you're trying to work on a setup. > > For a technology demo, I'm very impressed > Dave > > "Steve Blankenship" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:LtXC8.144243$[email hidden]... > > Good guess Eldred, and you're correct about Papy's rather special little > AI > > dance, but no; I'm talking about MY car. In various views (with replay > > fidelity = "3" and the half rate = "0" higher physics rate setting when > > driving), the car moves laterally in an odd sort of digital-looking way, > > which makes the replays look bogus. Not lifelike at all, IMHO. I have > > Vsync off, as in all games, so I'm wondering if it might be a visual > > artifact of that - I'll have to enable it and give it a whirl. > > > > SB > > > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <7PPC8.132449$[email hidden]>, > "Steve > > > Blankenship" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > >In replay, is it normal for the cars to float around like they do, > moving > > > >laterally as if they were not constrained by the tires? Again, not at > > all > > > >compelling, physics-wise. You never see oddities like that in a Papy > > > >replay; other lesser ones, yes - but not anything so obviously odd. > > > > > > I'm guessing you are talking about player-controlled cars, but you see > it > > with > > > Papy AI all the time. Watch them go through the hairpin at Rouen, or > Eau > > > Rouge... > > > > > > Eldred > > > -- > > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research > to > > cure > > > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make > a > > > donation. Thank you. > > > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > > > > > > > > > >

In article <K9UC8.287$[email hidden]>, "Joe Marques" <[email hidden]> writes: >This is NOT the point. Online capability may make F1 2002 far less >appealing to some but it doesn't impact it's quality as a *sim*. His >subject asks if F1 2002 is the "best sim ever?" Online play has no >relevance to the *quality* of the physics engine and how close it is to >reality. Online play can make it more feature rich and more appealing to a >broader audience. I think Gerry answered the question accurately. He puts a premium on online play. If the question is "best sim ever?" and the sim in question doesn't have online play, then *for him* the answer is no. Doesn't matter if you or I happen to *agree* with that or not. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <__TC8.3726$[email hidden]>, "drink" <[email hidden]> writes: >No the F1-2001 replays are terrible, it just breaks down the path of the >cars into straight line segments, even the player car... i hope they get a >completely new replay system for the final Ouch - that sucks... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Yep again - no aids. But I DID figure the problem out, and it was MY fault. Oops. Long-winded solution follows, for others' reference: One of the first things I did was tweak the default.cfg file for a more realistic cockpit POV/FOV (nice!), and assuming the F1-2001 *experts* on the HG forum had the scoop, tried dropping the orientation rate values also as recommended there to enhance sense of motion. I didn't go nearly as far as they suggested, only down to around 15 vs. the std. 35, but that's what caused my problem. The orientation rate values affect how the driver's "head/view" moves relative to the chassis under g-loading, and the center value affects left-right movement - neck twist, basically. What was happening was when the car experienced extreme loads in yaw (as in a spin or near spin), the driver's "head" was apparently whipping around relative to the chassis. Since the driver's "eye's" are of course my monitor, this neck-snapping made it appear the chassis was moving around bizarrely. The car was moving in one direction, rotating in another, while the driver's eye-point was following yet another path; all only at limit conditions. Yeehaa... Barf-bag, anyone? ;-) The other values for up-down and back-forth movement didn't seem to cause any trouble and did enhance the sense of motion somewhat, but the middle value is probably best left as-is, or nearly so. May even try raising it some; just can't stop with the knob-twisting...;-) Thx, SB "Gerry aitken" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Are you sure you *scrolled down* through the driving aids an turned them > ALL off? > > Gerry >

On Fri, 10 May 2002 20:20:41 GMT, "Andreas Nystrom" <[email hidden]> wrote: >ok, i will tell it again. In F1 2001 you can choose different types of >replays. >The more detailed, the more hd-place they will take. Its all in the manual >of the game. >In the lower settings, it looks just like you described it. >But in the real replays, it looks just as good as when you played it live Does setting the replays to more detailed have any influence on fps during driving? Andre

The backfires sound like a gunshot in real life, yes.. if you want to get rid of it, just make a silent wav with the backfire-sample name, and put it in the sounds/car folder. That should do it. Its realistic.. too bad that there arent any fire coming out the exhausts like in real life. The wheater, just press the edit session button, and select "Dry". "DB" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I like the demo very much, Very real sense of speed for me. Its easyto > get immersed into it. > I wish there where a way to get rid of that annoying backfire sound > though. > On my system in sounds like a pistol firing as you grab gears slowingdown.

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> I > don't know how realistic this is , but I find it annoying. > Another thing, Is there a way to force the weather to be dry all of the > time. The > random weather is a bummer when you're trying to work on a setup. > > For a technology demo, I'm very impressed > Dave >

"Damien Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<abfb3b$hv9qc$[email hidden]>... > > Not until it's seen that there's an actual, well working online aspect. > > EA's the champs at pre-release hype. > > -Yawn-, another predictable response from John. Do you actually like > *simulations* John? Or do you just like online demolition derbys? Hm. While I race in online leagues, I spend more time racing the AI. F1 2001 isn't even good for that, really. Playing it online would make it at least tolerable for a short while I guess. I have to admit that I enjoyed hotlapping in it for a few days after I got the workaround for the split-axis half-throttle/brake bug working. I spent more time trying to get the controller working than I have with any piece of software I've ever purchased, and less time actually playing it than Leadfoot or Master Rallye (both of which lasted less than a week on my harddrive). I can understand why people *want* the game to be amazing, since there hasn't been a good open-wheeled sim since ICR2 (I would argue that DTR:SC was a better sim than F1 2001, tho), but to someone who isn't maniacally obsessed with the tiddly wink motorsport that is modern F1 there really is nothing appealing at all about the ISI F1 games. Jason

jason moyer wrote: > > Hm. While I race in online leagues, Racing what? > I can understand why people *want* the > game to be amazing, since there hasn't been a good open-wheeled sim > since ICR2 GPL? > (I would argue that DTR:SC was a better sim than F1 2001, > tho), DTR:SC is a sim? > but to someone who isn't maniacally obsessed with the tiddly > wink motorsport that is modern F1 there really is nothing appealing at > all about the ISI F1 games. Have you even tried the F12002 demo?

> Hm. While I race in online leagues, Racing what? GPL? DTR:SC is a sim? Have you even tried the F12002 demo?

Gerry Aitken <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>... > jason moyer wrote: > > > > > Hm. While I race in online leagues, > > Racing what? N4/N2002. I'd like to get into some GPL leagues, but it's just not reasonable to run international races on a 56k modem (or at least, it never seems to work well for me). > > I can understand why people *want* the > > game to be amazing, since there hasn't been a good open-wheeled sim > > since ICR2 > > GPL? Oops, meant modern, or at least winged. I would much rather have a GPL 2 than a Papy produced 2002 GP game to be honest. > > (I would argue that DTR:SC was a better sim than F1 2001, > > tho), > > DTR:SC is a sim? Well, in some regards, yes. I find it more convincing than F1 2001 (wheel-to-wheel collisions that send a car airborne, steering settings that work out of the box, better damage modelling, etc), but it's not amazing. I wouldn't expect to learn how to drive a sprintcar by playing DTR:SC any more than I would an F1 car by playing F1 2001. On the other hand, I think I'd do ok in a stock car, at least for someone with no formal racing experience. If I drove a pre-aero F1 car I'd probably hit a tree before getting oriented. > Have you even tried the F12002 demo? I wasn't going to try it when I heard the split-axis bug remained, but I gave it a go anyway. The steering configuration is still useless (then again I've spent at least 2 years trying to get my Sidewinder Pro working to Papy-standards in SCGT, F12k and F12k1 with minimal success). Otherwise, with no aids, it seems a little easier to provoke wheelspin and even harder (if that's possible) to lose the backend under braking. From what I can tell, the ISI games use the same downforce model regardless of the orientation of the car - if you're going 200mph you'll have the same aero grip, even if you're sideways or backwards. High-speed collisions with the walls are still completely unconvincing, as is driving on grass. While I shouldn't be doing either of these things, I find them integral parts of a good driving game, even one that doesn't pretend to be a sim. The biggest problems I have with the game are the series slapped on the box (I'm just not a big post-1994 F1 fan) and the useless controller config. All I want is for my wheel and pedals to have the same degree of input as they do in a Papy game with the linearity slider set to full. If I could get that and the game had 20-player multiplayer support with a WON-type interface I'd play it despite the other things I don't like about it. Jason