Real Racing: Have any of you actually driven a real race car??

I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closest to getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way off the real thing. I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how people conclude a game feels real? Comments appreciated. 'Our Kid'

I think more people than you expect have had real experience. I haven't had much, but I've done some advanced training and a lot of autocrossing in my Miata. I also did a track day at Waterford Hills in Michigan ( in the Miata) -- what a blast! Funny thing is, I thought I'd be real good after driving sims for five years. Well, nothing could be further from the truth. As much fun as they are, the sims are nothing compared to the physical experience of real lapping - it's just a totally different ballgame when your driving on the limit in a real car. The amount of sensations that come at you are astounding as well as the physical exertion required. Curiously, I found that my GPL driving improved after the real experience because I had a much greater understanding of the physics. I highly recommend to anyone that they go out and try autocrossing regardlesss of what you drive as it's a real eye-opening experience. Just do a search on your local racing club and I'm sure you'll find some dates. Usually, it's cheap, open and all you need is a DOT helemet (often supplied). Cheers, Simon "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven arace car > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have neverbeen > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the gameclosest to > getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still alittle way > off the real thing. > > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to knowhow

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> people conclude a game feels real? > > Comments appreciated. > > 'Our Kid' > > > > >

I would have to agree that GLP has come closest to the real thing IMHO. Had the chance to drive an F2000 car a few years ago and the GLP model accurately gets the break away and handling pretty close. The only thing missing is a complete force feedback experience ( wheel as well as seat feel). Having a lot of fun with the current FIA GT mod as well, but until I win the lottery can't say how well these exotics behave based on personal experience. Dave McLeod "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closestto

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> getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way > off the real thing. > > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > people conclude a game feels real? > > Comments appreciated. > > 'Our Kid' > > > > >

Well, I have a little under 1 full season of "street-stock" racing experience at Wall Stadium (Ray Evernham's home track) which is a 1/3 mile paved high banked oval.......street stocks are basically mid to full sized cars, small block V8's with minor engine mods, on street tires, with full rollcages and other safety gear. Absolutely one of the most fun things I've ever experienced, even including all the hard work.....my partner and I built the whole car, and repaired it often.....but starting a race with 30 other cars, 60 open exhaust pipes, 120 screeeeeeming tires, and going just as fast as you can stand, is quite a good time. After my kids are grown and I'm able to afford it, I'd love to get back on the track, and raise hell with the young guys. In my opinion, GPL, n4, and now nascar 2002 get the feeling of a car down, with 2002 being the best. The view thru the windshield seems just a tad crowded to me, but the movement of the view relative to throttle, brake and steering inputs seems spot on, and the tire sounds of scrubbing leading into squealing seem about right as well. 2002 has the ability to somehow let you "feel" the weight of a stock car too, these things are high powered tanks, they roll more than lighter cars do, and rise/fall on their springs more too......great stuff Papy. Ed "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > people conclude a game feels real? > > Comments appreciated. > > 'Our Kid'

Kid, Yeah, I've driven real race cars (and wrote the strategy guide that shipped with GPL). I was the Editor of Car and Driver in the 1960s, and we tested a bunch of race cars (some, like the Ferrari LM and Porsche 904, on the street; others at tracks like Bridgehampton, Lime Rock, V.I.R. and Riverside). The fastest car I ever drove was a Formula Atlantic, but not in a race. The hairiest car I ever drove was Mark Donohue's Camaro, but not in a race. I drove a Porsche 911 in a couple of Trans-Am races, a couple of other Porsches in club races, and 125cc karts in the pre-Jurassic era (remember the Freedomland layout?). Alison Hine, who was one of the GPL beta testers, has built and raced small-bore machinery (including an airplane!), and is currently campaigning a Factory Five Cobra she and her brother built. Doug Arnao, another beta tester for GPL, has won a couple of SCCA National Championships. Dave Kaemmer, Papyrus' chief software designer, currently races Barber Dodge, and most of his staff has been thru the Barber school. I don't know of any other racing game that has as many people involved with as much real-life track experience. It shows. --Steve Smith "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closestto

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> getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way > off the real thing. > > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > people conclude a game feels real? > > Comments appreciated. > > 'Our Kid' > > > > >

I raced 1800cc 97 spec Formula Fords last year, that was cool, best finish was 2 3rds out of the 8 races i ran. and now im a papyrus administrator/moderator online. cool pez "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closestto

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> getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way > off the real thing. > > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > people conclude a game feels real? > > Comments appreciated. > > 'Our Kid' > > > > >

I've driven my road car on several circuit in Aust (at some speed, I aint totally stupid, yet) and the only real BIG difference from sim to real life is the "feel", g-force etc. Book "Alex Porazinski" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:abf0jn$dpj$[email hidden]...

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> I raced 1800cc 97 spec Formula Fords last year, that was cool, best finish > was 2 3rds out of the 8 races i ran. > > and now im a papyrus administrator/moderator online. > > cool > > pez > > "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race

car > > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closest > to > > getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a littleway

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> > off the real thing. > > > > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > > people conclude a game feels real? > > > > Comments appreciated. > > > > 'Our Kid' > > > > > > > > > > > >

I drive one everyday. It's called a Corvette Z06. Gary -- -- "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closest to > getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way > off the real thing. > > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > people conclude a game feels real? > > Comments appreciated. > > 'Our Kid' > > > > > >

>I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car Although I don't have any real on track experience (except drag racing in the 60's which doesn't count) I do teach police pursuit driving. Having bought my first computer AFTER buying the original Nascar racing title, the biggest problem I have is not having the "seat of the pants" feeling of the car being "on the edge" of traction. To me N2002, with the added scrubbing sound of the tire just before loss of traction has compensated for some of that "seat of the pants" feeling. The physics seem to be as close as could be possible "driving" a computer. N4 did not have that feeling to me, and I always had a problem finding the edge without going over it. As I teach, you want to hear the tires sing for that edge, if they scream, you have lost it.

Dream on. "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:x0EC8.127031$[email hidden]...

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> I drive one everyday. It's called a Corvette Z06. > > Gary > > -- > -- > "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race

car > > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closestto > > getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a littleway

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> > off the real thing. > > > > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > > people conclude a game feels real? > > > > Comments appreciated. > > > > 'Our Kid' > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

"ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:x0EC8.127031$[email hidden]... > I drive one everyday. It's called a Corvette Z06. > > Gary hehe opening yourself to PLENTY of possible abuse there Gary. Of course EVERYONE knows that the Vette is two cylinders shy of being a real race car...that and about 150 hp and 150ft/lbs of torque....NOW WHAT CAR COULD I BE THINKING OF?????? dave(need a hint?)henrie

Some years ago I was involved with 4 hr. endurance racing.. Matt Knutsen, another simfreak, and myself, buildt prepard and raced our car for 3 seasons in the Scandinavian Seaways Cup - in Sweden... finishing 2nd in class as best in the championship in '96. 'Nice thing about that type of racing is that you get plenty of seat time (must have pretty close 500 laps logged at some of those ciruits) and then there's the strategy element with pitstops, refuelling etc. Great news on that front however, as Matt and myself has begun preperation of a new car with the aim of a comeback later this season and/or next season. I cant wait. :-) -- ed_

I've been racing karts since 1976. About as real as it gets. And, yes, GPL is closest to getting it right. Jim 'Our Kid' wrote:

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> I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closest to > getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way > off the real thing. > > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > people conclude a game feels real? > > Comments appreciated. > > 'Our Kid'

"'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closestto > getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way > off the real thing. I raced karts on every surface known to man (dirt tracks, asphalt ovals, indoor on concrete/coke syrup, street courses, road courses) for about 5 years when I was much younger and I raced street stocks (not quite as stock as someone else mentioned in this thread) for 5 years. I haven't done any real racing for about 6 years unfortunately. I think I am a much better real racer than sim racer. Kyle

"'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closest to > getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way > off the real thing.

Besides those with impressive race car experience who have already responded to your post, I guess there are many around here who have some kind of experience with the real thing even if much more limited. The best I have to compare against the games is some 20 laps in a formula ford in a single session a few years ago. Not much, but at least enough to qualify for getting near the real thing. (It was on a rainy day, so the wet track made it quite a realistic simulation of the GPL F3's but with a much better frame rate, not to mention the truly amazing force feedback :-) > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > people conclude a game feels real? By comparing it to whatever real experience you have (driving an ordinary street car is better than nothing) and applying whatever physics knowledge available (you don't need much physics knowledge to conclude that a real car won't have any magic force stopping an oversteer from going beyound 20-30 degrees tail out as in many games, for example). But as games get better, this gets harder. My guess is that games like GPL and F1 2001 brings us very close to (or even beyond) the point where people like myself have much authority on how realistic it is. Another view on this is that with the best sims available today the physics engine is good enough to leave us limited almost exclusively by the inherent problems with a PC sim (small screen, low resolution, low frame rate, low-precision controllers, high input to output delay, lack of 'real' force feedback etc etc). This leads to physics engines being developed to compensate for the limitations, sacrifying correctness trying to get a better 'feeling' (or just to stop a game from getting too hard). Now 'more realistic' doesn't mean much anymore because it all is a big compromise, and if a game is realistic or not depends on what kind of realism you want. The hard-core physics addicts will ask for a sim with the best physics available and no compromises even though it will be as hard as driving a real car using a not-that-good radio control setup, and in the other end of the scale you have those who will ask for something that is just as easy to race with as in real life ignoring all the limitations even if it means the physics will be like something from a ten year old arcade rally game. I'm at the best physics end of that scale (and quite a few here in this forum probably are), but there are lots of people at the other end also. _ Mats Lofkvist [email hidden]

'Our Kid' wrote:

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> > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closest to > getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way > off the real thing. > > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > people conclude a game feels real? > > Comments appreciated.

Never actually raced no, could never afford to actually go racing, but several of my street cars have been buildt to "race car specs" and we've rented the local track on many occasions to see what they could do :-), and also participated in as many open track days as possible, I'm not even going to guess how many laps I've got at the local track, both on slicks and street tires, I could count the number of brake pads I've used of course....:-) Slicks isn't much fun though, you lose almost all the "feel" of what the car is doing and the edge between fast and under control and too fast and see where you've just been is very narrow indeed, high performance street tires is much more fun, for me anyway Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

I bought a champ kart, I consider it my real world physics simulator, I had too because it is cheaper than a motion simulator for my cpu. GPL is the closest to me, the way the kart handles and reacts to steering input is much like GPL, there are many nights where the kart feels like it has a 30/85 diff and some nights it feels like a 85/30 diff. The biggest difference to me is the cues we use to drive the car, in the virtual world you don't have any bumps, g forces, once completely suited up and belted in there is a bit of a clausterphobic feeling, etc....in the sim world without all these forces you can really concentrate on driving the car. Sometimes in the kart I have run a different line because hitting that rut in the low groove started to really hurt my butt, that would never happen in the sim world. One track I ran at was real small with some banking, you were always turning and my left leg would bounce around hitting things, after the race I noticed I had bruised my leg up pretty bad, there are just alot more distractions in the real world than the sim world.

In article <JFFC8.12533$WR1.5491@sccrnsc01>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>"ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message >news:x0EC8.127031$[email hidden]... >> I drive one everyday. It's called a Corvette Z06. >> >> Gary > hehe opening yourself to PLENTY of possible abuse there Gary. Of course >EVERYONE knows that the Vette is two cylinders shy of being a real race >car...that and about 150 hp and 150ft/lbs of torque....NOW WHAT CAR COULD I >BE THINKING OF?????? >dave(need a hint?)henrie

Um...a Viper?<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

yesssss, thats it, I also am sure, that there is no other company that makes sims, that has more real experience! To the driving experience: A good friend of mine is a former (and very good) F2 and F3 racingdriver (german master, european master and constructor of own MACO-racingcars). He loves the setupresults of GPL, but realistically he is saying, that the real feeling can not be transfered in a racing sim (the feeling of the ass is missing ;-)) ). But GPL is his favorite and the feeling of the cars on the tracks is very realistic, he says. Good to get track-knowhow. Rolf "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:dbCC8.56625$[email hidden]... > Kid, > > Yeah, I've driven real race cars (and wrote the strategy guide thatshipped > with GPL). > > I was the Editor of Car and Driver in the 1960s, and we tested a bunch of > race cars (some, like the Ferrari LM and Porsche 904, on the street;others > at tracks like Bridgehampton, Lime Rock, V.I.R. and Riverside). Thefastest

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> car I ever drove was a Formula Atlantic, but not in a race. The hairiest > car I ever drove was Mark Donohue's Camaro, but not in a race. I drove a > Porsche 911 in a couple of Trans-Am races, a couple of other Porsches in > club races, and 125cc karts in the pre-Jurassic era (remember the > Freedomland layout?). > > Alison Hine, who was one of the GPL beta testers, has built and raced > small-bore machinery (including an airplane!), and is currently

campaigning > a Factory Five Cobra she and her brother built. Doug Arnao, another beta > tester for GPL, has won a couple of SCCA National Championships. Dave > Kaemmer, Papyrus' chief software designer, currently races Barber Dodge,and > most of his staff has been thru the Barber school. > > I don't know of any other racing game that has as many people involvedwith

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> as much real-life track experience. It shows. > > --Steve Smith > > "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race

car > > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closest > to > > getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a littleway

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> > off the real thing. > > > > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > > people conclude a game feels real? > > > > Comments appreciated. > > > > 'Our Kid' > > > > > > > > > > > >

"EldredP" > > hehe opening yourself to PLENTY of possible abuse there Gary. Ofcourse > >EVERYONE knows that the Vette is two cylinders shy of being a real race > >car...that and about 150 hp and 150ft/lbs of torque....NOW WHAT CAR COULDI > >BE THINKING OF?????? > >dave(need a hint?)henrie > > Um...a Viper?<g> > > Eldred DingDingDingDing!!! that would be correct sir. Remember 10-2=Corvette. dave henrie > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research tocure > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a > donation. Thank you. > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"EldredP" DingDingDingDing!!! that would be correct sir. Remember 10-2=Corvette. dave henrie

In article <IPAC8.7969$[email hidden]>, "Simon Goodwin" <[email hidden]> writes: >I think more people than you expect have had real experience. I >haven't had much, but I've done some advanced training and a lot of >autocrossing in my Miata. I also did a track day at Waterford Hills >in Michigan ( in the Miata) -- what a blast! Simon! When did YOU get to RAS?!? I'm still waiting for my invite to Waterford Hills... If you come through here and DON'T contact me, Screamers better look for another server...<g> <just kidding...mostly> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a racecar > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? You can spend $1000+ to take classes, in stock car racing, rally racing, sprint car racing, or Indy car racing. $1500 should get you a one-day course with at least an hour of track time, if not more. :-) Got that issue of Car & Driver right here... It's interesting reading. --KC

EldredP wrote:

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> > In article <JFFC8.12533$WR1.5491@sccrnsc01>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> > writes: > > >"ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:x0EC8.127031$[email hidden]... > >> I drive one everyday. It's called a Corvette Z06. > >> > >> Gary > > hehe opening yourself to PLENTY of possible abuse there Gary. Of course > >EVERYONE knows that the Vette is two cylinders shy of being a real race > >car...that and about 150 hp and 150ft/lbs of torque....NOW WHAT CAR COULD I > >BE THINKING OF?????? > >dave(need a hint?)henrie > > Um...a Viper?<g>

Viper..Viper..is that that big heavy thing with a truck engine in it ? Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" --Groucho Marx--

On Thu, 9 May 2002 19:31:25 +0100, "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote:

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>I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car >on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > >Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been >near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closest to >getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way >off the real thing. > >I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how >people conclude a game feels real? > >Comments appreciated. > >'Our Kid'

I raced from 1969 to 1987 starting in a Mini Cooper, then all kinds of sports cars up through a Porsche at Daytona. Also ran USAC Midgets, WOO Sprint Cars, and Nascar Short Track Stock Cars. Tested but did not race a 1980 Arrows F1 car and a 1983 Theodore Indy Car.

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> > Um...a Viper?<g> > > Viper..Viper..is that that big heavy thing with a truck engine in it ? > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/

yes it is...Dale Jarret won't drive the Brown truck, but he'd probably love to drive the beeg uhMerican v10 truck mill... dave henrie

I prefer to think of the Ram truck as the big heavy thing with a Viper engine in it. "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> > Viper..Viper..is that that big heavy thing with a truck engine in it ? > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > "The Pits" http://www.theuspits.com/ > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels" > --Groucho Marx--

"Kasey Chang (remove EATSPAM to reply)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:iR1D8.140$[email hidden]... > Got that issue of Car & Driver right here... It's interesting reading. Oops, pardon me. I mean MOTOR TREND, not C&D. They highlighted European Rally School, DriveTech Stock Car School, the Bondurant School (for road races), and the Sprint Car driving school. The sprint car shool is the cheapest... UNDER $1000 for one day. --KC

What do you mean? Check it out. www.lalim.net -- -- "Steve Smith" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:CxEC8.38590$[email hidden]... > Dream on. > > "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:x0EC8.127031$[email hidden]... > > I drive one everyday. It's called a Corvette Z06. > > > > Gary > > > > -- > > -- > > "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race > car > > > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > > > > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > > > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closest > to > > > getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little > way > > > off the real thing. > > > > > > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > > > people conclude a game feels real? > > > > > > Comments appreciated. > > > > > > 'Our Kid' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

A Z06 can kick a Viper's butt around a race track. The Viper only beats a Z06 by a few 10ths in the 1/4, but the Z06 kills a Viper in any other test... braking, handling, etc. Sorry.... -- -- "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <JFFC8.12533$WR1.5491@sccrnsc01>, "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> > writes: > > >"ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > >news:x0EC8.127031$[email hidden]... > >> I drive one everyday. It's called a Corvette Z06. > >> > >> Gary > > hehe opening yourself to PLENTY of possible abuse there Gary. Of course > >EVERYONE knows that the Vette is two cylinders shy of being a real race > >car...that and about 150 hp and 150ft/lbs of torque....NOW WHAT CAR COULD I > >BE THINKING OF?????? > >dave(need a hint?)henrie > > Um...a Viper?<g> > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a > donation. Thank you. > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. >

Another way to get fairly cheap track time is with a car club like BMW, Corvette, Porsche, etc... In my state, about 250-300 dollars gets you two days of track time (you are divided into run groups, so it works out to on the track a third of the time, classroom sessions a third of the time, and break time/work on your car the other third). It's a lot cheaper than skip barber, et al, and while it's cool to drive the little formula cars, and the instructors have more racing experience, it's also a blast to drive your own car on a track--also it's easier for us mere mortals to get to the limits of a sporty street car than some winged monster. Furthermore, at least at the local chapter of BMWCCA, there were a lot of non-BMWs there too (last year my coworker had a modified Camaro, I also saw an Integra, a Taurus SHO, and an awesome Ferrari challenge car. My car is pretty much stock except for harnesses, but some guys there had vehicles in various state of transformation to race cars... basically they cater to an extremely wide range of experience/equipment) And of course, as others have mentioned, karts are probably the cheapest, plus you actually get to race wheel-to-wheel... I recommend trying at least one of these if you can afford it--the experience is hard to convey... "Kasey Chang (remove EATSPAM to reply)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:2kmD8.975$%[email hidden]...

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> > "Kasey Chang (remove EATSPAM to reply)" <[email hidden]> > wrote in message > news:iR1D8.140$[email hidden]... > > > Got that issue of Car & Driver right here... It's interesting reading. > > Oops, pardon me. I mean MOTOR TREND, not C&D. They highlighted > European Rally School, DriveTech Stock Car School, the Bondurant School > (for road races), and the Sprint Car driving school. The sprint car > shool is the > cheapest... UNDER $1000 for one day. > > --KC > > >

In article <EonD8.106047$[email hidden]>, "ZeeOhSix \(Z06\)" <[email hidden]> writes:

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>A Z06 can kick a Viper's butt around a race track. >The Viper only beats a Z06 by a few 10ths in the 1/4, but the Z06 kills a >Viper >in any other test... braking, handling, etc. > >Sorry.... > >I >> >BE THINKING OF?????? >> >dave(need a hint?)henrie >> >> Um...a Viper?<g>

Why are you sorry? Don't be sorry - be careful. I was just answering Dave's 'question'. Since I'll never be able to afford either, I really don't CARE which car is faster/better. I have no desire to enter this penis-waving contest... Have a nice day. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

I wasn't replying to you anyway, just making a comment on the fact that the Viper is slower on the track than a Z06. No need to defend yourself with comments like "I have no desire to enter this penis-waving contest..." Funny, people always resort to saying it's a "midlife-crisis" or "penis thing" when the conversation turns to expensive high performance sports cars... Usually from people who don't or can't have one... I guess that's what they teach you at UofM? 8-) (I'm a EMU graduate, just a humorous jab there....) I enjoy my Z06, I bought it because I love cars. I don't race it on the street or the track (and it's 100% bone stock). I had in in A2 last fall, parked in front of "Maize and Blue" and had a sandwich. Have fun! -- -- "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <EonD8.106047$[email hidden]>, "ZeeOhSix > \(Z06\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > >A Z06 can kick a Viper's butt around a race track. > >The Viper only beats a Z06 by a few 10ths in the 1/4, but the Z06 kills a > >Viper > >in any other test... braking, handling, etc. > > > >Sorry.... > > Why are you sorry? Don't be sorry - be careful. I was just answering Dave's > 'question'. Since I'll never be able to afford either, I really don't CARE > which car is faster/better. I have no desire to enter this penis-waving > contest... > Have a nice day. > > Eldred

Thank aint no *race* car.... Like that man said.... dream on! -- ed_ "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" said: > What do you mean? Check it out. > > www.lalim.net > "Steve Smith" said: > > Dream on. > > > > "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" said: > > > I drive one everyday. It's called a Corvette Z06. > > > > > > > "'Our Kid'" said: > > > > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race > > > > car on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb?

Yes it is. 8-) -- -- "Ed Solheim" <edwins[ REMOVE ]@[ THIS ].no> wrote in message news:zSwD8.13589$[email hidden]... > Thank aint no *race* car.... > > Like that man said.... dream on! > > -- > ed_ > > "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" said: > > What do you mean? Check it out. > > > > www.lalim.net > > > "Steve Smith" said: > > > Dream on. > > > > > > "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" said: > > > > I drive one everyday. It's called a Corvette Z06. > > > > > > > > > "'Our Kid'" said: > > > > > I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a > race > > > > > car on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > > >

"ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kpvD8.161017$[email hidden]... > I wasn't replying to you anyway, just making a comment on the fact thatthe > Viper is slower on the track than a Z06. > > No need to defend yourself with comments like "I have no desire to enterthis > penis-waving contest..." Funny, people always resort to saying it's a > "midlife-crisis" or "penis thing" when the conversation turns to expensivehigh > performance sports cars... Usually from people who don't or can't haveone... that would be an expression! it's not a defense. it's used anytime (usually) guys want to brag about and show off their trophies. sorry, when there's no wooly mammoth to bring back to the tribe, fine machines, like you have there--which the price of could house a couple of homeless families-- is nothing but a trophey. do i admire the vehicles? yes. but don't have one, or can't have one doesn't enter into the equation for many folk, they just don't need the trophies and they like using expressions. rob, (the guy that rides his 15 yr old heavy murray mtn bike to work..gutter bunny to the max... my penis is waving high and proud!)

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>I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car >on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > >Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been >near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closest to >getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way >off the real thing. >

I raced SCCA for 10 years, mostly Showroom Stock, but 1-1/2 years in a Formula Ford. GPL models a lightweight, highpowered, undertired car well. N2002 does the same for a heavy, highpowered, slightly less undertired car. I would guess F12001 does the same for a modern highpowered, ground effect car with decent tires. It would be difficult to say just which is more "realistic" in simulating its' particular type of car. No available data. You'd need a modern AJ Foyt (drove everything) to tell you that, and I don't think he or she exists :-). _Everyone_ here is just BSing when it comes to raising one of these three above the others as far as "realism" is concerned. They're taking experience in some cars and trying to project that to others. The brakes in F12001 do seem a bit strange, but the brakes on a modern F1 car must be very unlike anyone here's experience. bob

Maybe today, but the 2003 Viper is on the way, and it will send the Z06 scampering away in fear with its penis held tightly between its legs. "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:EonD8.106047$[email hidden]... > A Z06 can kick a Viper's butt around a race track. > The Viper only beats a Z06 by a few 10ths in the 1/4, but the Z06kills a Viper > in any other test... braking, handling, etc. > > Sorry.... >

Ya and ah motorbike(newer type sportbike) kick's ass on a Z06 anywhere, exept for maybee a gravel roadbut ehh on the track and through the corners 0-60, 0-100-0, 1/4mile and top speed mind you topspeed is really close but by the time the Z06 catches up the guy on the bike is finished eating his lunch, If you dont believe me check out the april issue of Motorcyclist! "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:kpvD8.161017$[email hidden]... > I wasn't replying to you anyway, just making a comment on the fact thatthe > Viper is slower on the track than a Z06. > > No need to defend yourself with comments like "I have no desire to enterthis > penis-waving contest..." Funny, people always resort to saying it's a > "midlife-crisis" or "penis thing" when the conversation turns to expensivehigh > performance sports cars... Usually from people who don't or can't haveone... > > I guess that's what they teach you at UofM? 8-) > (I'm a EMU graduate, just a humorous jab there....) > > I enjoy my Z06, I bought it because I love cars. I don't race it on thestreet > or the track (and it's 100% bone stock). I had in in A2 last fall, parkedin

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> front of "Maize and Blue" and had a sandwich. > > Have fun! > > > -- > -- > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <EonD8.106047$[email hidden]>,

"ZeeOhSix > > \(Z06\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >A Z06 can kick a Viper's butt around a race track. > > >The Viper only beats a Z06 by a few 10ths in the 1/4, but the Z06 killsa

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> > >Viper > > >in any other test... braking, handling, etc. > > > > > >Sorry.... > > > > > Why are you sorry? Don't be sorry - be careful. I was just answering

Dave's > > 'question'. Since I'll never be able to afford either, I really don'tCARE

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> > which car is faster/better. I have no desire to enter this penis-waving > > contest... > > Have a nice day. > > > > Eldred > > >

IMHO it's not that you cant have 1 it's just that you don't want 1 badly enough, I like the Vette biggest bang for your buck but I will buy a 911 Twin before I buy a Vette! "reverend rob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vbyD8.5956$[email hidden]...

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> "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:kpvD8.161017$[email hidden]... > > I wasn't replying to you anyway, just making a comment on the fact that > the > > Viper is slower on the track than a Z06. > > > > No need to defend yourself with comments like "I have no desire to enter > this > > penis-waving contest..." Funny, people always resort to saying it's a > > "midlife-crisis" or "penis thing" when the conversation turns to

expensive

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> high > > performance sports cars... Usually from people who don't or can't have > one... > > > that would be an expression! it's not a defense. it's used anytime > (usually) guys want to brag about and show off their trophies. sorry,

when

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> there's no wooly mammoth to bring back to the tribe, fine machines, like > you have there--which the price of could house a couple of homeless > families-- is nothing but a trophey. > > do i admire the vehicles? yes. but don't have one, or can't have one > doesn't enter into the equation for many folk, they just don't need the > trophies and they like using expressions. > > rob, (the guy that rides his 15 yr old heavy murray mtn bike to

work..gutter > bunny to the max... my penis is waving high and proud!) > >

Why would anyone compare a bike to a car? -- -- "Hans Jensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:bgDD8.65867$[email hidden]... > Ya and ah motorbike(newer type sportbike) kick's ass on a Z06 anywhere, > exept for maybee a gravel roadbut ehh on the track and through the corners > 0-60, 0-100-0, 1/4mile and top speed mind you topspeed is really close but > by the time the Z06 catches up the guy on the bike is finished eating his > lunch, > If you dont believe me check out the april issue of Motorcyclist! > "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:kpvD8.161017$[email hidden]... > > I wasn't replying to you anyway, just making a comment on the fact that > the > > Viper is slower on the track than a Z06. > > > > No need to defend yourself with comments like "I have no desire to enter > this > > penis-waving contest..." Funny, people always resort to saying it's a > > "midlife-crisis" or "penis thing" when the conversation turns to expensive > high > > performance sports cars... Usually from people who don't or can't have > one... > > > > I guess that's what they teach you at UofM? 8-) > > (I'm a EMU graduate, just a humorous jab there....) > > > > I enjoy my Z06, I bought it because I love cars. I don't race it on the > street > > or the track (and it's 100% bone stock). I had in in A2 last fall, parked > in > > front of "Maize and Blue" and had a sandwich. > > > > Have fun! > > > > > > -- > > -- > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:[email hidden]... > > > In article <EonD8.106047$[email hidden]>, > "ZeeOhSix > > > \(Z06\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > >A Z06 can kick a Viper's butt around a race track. > > > >The Viper only beats a Z06 by a few 10ths in the 1/4, but the Z06 kills > a > > > >Viper > > > >in any other test... braking, handling, etc. > > > > > > > >Sorry.... > > > > > > > > Why are you sorry? Don't be sorry - be careful. I was just answering > Dave's > > > 'question'. Since I'll never be able to afford either, I really don't > CARE > > > which car is faster/better. I have no desire to enter this penis-waving > > > contest... > > > Have a nice day. > > > > > > Eldred > > > > > > > > >

Why would anyone compare a bike to a car? -- -- > Ya and ah motorbike(newer type sportbike) kick's ass on a Z06 anywhere, > exept for maybee a gravel roadbut ehh on the track and through the corners > 0-60, 0-100-0, 1/4mile and top speed mind you topspeed is really close but > by the time the Z06 catches up the guy on the bike is finished eating his > lunch, > If you dont believe me check out the april issue of Motorcyclist! > > I wasn't replying to you anyway, just making a comment on the fact that > the > > Viper is slower on the track than a Z06. > > No need to defend yourself with comments like "I have no desire to enter > this > > ***-waving contest..." Funny, people always resort to saying it's a > > "midlife-crisis" or "*** thing" when the conversation turns to expensive > high > > performance sports cars... Usually from people who don't or can't have > one... > > I guess that's what they teach you at UofM? 8-) > > (I'm a EMU graduate, just a humorous jab there....) > > I enjoy my Z06, I bought it because I love cars. I don't race it on the > street > > or the track (and it's 100% bone stock). I had in in A2 last fall, parked > in > > front of "Maize and Blue" and had a sandwich. > > Have fun! > > -- > > -- > "ZeeOhSix > > > >A Z06 can kick a Viper's ***around a race track. > > > >The Viper only beats a Z06 by a few 10ths in the 1/4, but the Z06 kills > a > > > >Viper > > > >in any other test... braking, handling, etc. > > > >Sorry.... > > > Why are you sorry? Don't be sorry - be careful. I was just answering > Dave's > > > 'question'. Since I'll never be able to afford either, I really don't > CARE > > > which car is faster/better. I have no desire to enter this ***-waving > > > contest... > > > Have a nice day. > > > Eldred

The Z06 kicks the 911 Twin Turbo too.... and the TT costs 3x more. Go figure. -- -- "Hans Jensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:WjDD8.64752$[email hidden]... > IMHO it's not that you cant have 1 it's just that you don't want 1 badly > enough, > I like the Vette biggest bang for your buck but I will buy a 911 Twin before > I buy > a Vette! > "reverend rob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:vbyD8.5956$[email hidden]... > > "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:kpvD8.161017$[email hidden]... > > > I wasn't replying to you anyway, just making a comment on the fact that > > the > > > Viper is slower on the track than a Z06. > > > > > > No need to defend yourself with comments like "I have no desire to enter > > this > > > penis-waving contest..." Funny, people always resort to saying it's a > > > "midlife-crisis" or "penis thing" when the conversation turns to > expensive > > high > > > performance sports cars... Usually from people who don't or can't have > > one... > > > > > > that would be an expression! it's not a defense. it's used anytime > > (usually) guys want to brag about and show off their trophies. sorry, > when > > there's no wooly mammoth to bring back to the tribe, fine machines, like > > you have there--which the price of could house a couple of homeless > > families-- is nothing but a trophey. > > > > do i admire the vehicles? yes. but don't have one, or can't have one > > doesn't enter into the equation for many folk, they just don't need the > > trophies and they like using expressions. > > > > rob, (the guy that rides his 15 yr old heavy murray mtn bike to > work..gutter > > bunny to the max... my penis is waving high and proud!) > > > > > > >

Wow man you must be reading some very different magazines my friend Yes the Z06 is cheaper, you pay more for quality and reliability, No it's not faster + the porsche has way better brakes Ehm let's see 2002 or maybee its the 2003 not sure but its the 1 tested in issue 3-02 Road & Track 0-60 in 4.7sec 0-100 in 10.8, and 1/4 mile no's is [email hidden] and it tops out at 171mph that's at a tag of $50,733 price as tested $49505 list now lets look at the 911Turbo from issue11-00(it's an older car not that it matters) 0-60 in 4.0, 0-100 in 9.2 and 1/4 mile [email hidden], tops out at 190mphtagged at $118,365 and list is 111,000 so like I said the Vette gives you the better bang for your $$, now if you want to look at the 1 I'm goin to buy, which is the GT2 then your closer to the 3x the price at $179,900 list and tested tag of $187,724, and it does 0-60 in 3.6, 0-100 in 8,9 1/4 mile in [email hidden] and topend is 195mph not to mention a skid pad of 1.02 where the Z06 is 0.97 and the 911TT is 0.96 So ya GO Figure eh!!! "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cFDD8.191399$[email hidden]... > The Z06 kicks the 911 Twin Turbo too.... and the TT costs 3x more. Gofigure.

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> > -- > -- > "Hans Jensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:WjDD8.64752$[email hidden]... > > IMHO it's not that you cant have 1 it's just that you don't want 1 badly > > enough, > > I like the Vette biggest bang for your buck but I will buy a 911 Twin

before

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> > I buy > > a Vette! > > "reverend rob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:vbyD8.5956$[email hidden]... > > > "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:kpvD8.161017$[email hidden]... > > > > I wasn't replying to you anyway, just making a comment on the fact

that > > > the > > > > Viper is slower on the track than a Z06. > > > > > > > > No need to defend yourself with comments like "I have no desire toenter > > > this > > > > penis-waving contest..." Funny, people always resort to saying it'sa > > > > "midlife-crisis" or "penis thing" when the conversation turns to > > expensive > > > high > > > > performance sports cars... Usually from people who don't or can'thave

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> > > one... > > > > > > > > > that would be an expression! it's not a defense. it's used anytime > > > (usually) guys want to brag about and show off their trophies. sorry, > > when > > > there's no wooly mammoth to bring back to the tribe, fine machines,

like > > > you have there--which the price of could house a couple of homeless > > > families-- is nothing but a trophey. > > > > > > do i admire the vehicles? yes. but don't have one, or can't have one > > > doesn't enter into the equation for many folk, they just don't needthe

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> > > trophies and they like using expressions. > > > > > > rob, (the guy that rides his 15 yr old heavy murray mtn bike to > > work..gutter > > > bunny to the max... my penis is waving high and proud!) > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Well from the data I can find, the Porsche is faster than the Z06. A quick comparison. Horse Power Porsche 400 at 5750 rpm Torque: 400 @4,500 rpm Z06 405 at 6000 rpm Torque 400 @ 4800 rpm Top speed 911TT 192 mph Z06 171mph 0-60 911TT 3.7 seconds Z06 3.9 seconds standing quarter mile 911TT 12.1s @ 116 mph Z06 12.4 seconds at 116 mph Then theres the 911 turbo S, which is even faster. Given the choice, even if the Porsche wasn't as fast, I'd pick it for it's reputation and my preference of looks. There again, if I was in the market for a car of this performance the only choice would be Italian or British. For example, the TVR Cerbera 4.5 Max power 420 bhp @ 6750 rpm Max torque 380 ft.lbs @ 5500 rpm 0 to 60 mph in 3.9 secs 0 to 100 mph in 8.3 secs 0 to 150 mph in 17.9 secs Maximum speed +190 mph -- Ian P <email invalid due to spam> "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:cFDD8.191399$[email hidden]... > The Z06 kicks the 911 Twin Turbo too.... and the TT costs 3x more. Go figure.

Not sure but they did well i can think of 1 reason, for 1/5 of the price of the Z06, which is the car used in the comparo you can get 1 of the new sportbikes(1000cc's), and it dont matter which car you drive or how much money you spend on 1 I.E. a Mclaren or somthing like that meaning a production vehicle you just cant beat a bike "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tEDD8.152354$[email hidden]...

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> Why would anyone compare a bike to a car? > > -- > -- > "Hans Jensen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:bgDD8.65867$[email hidden]... > > Ya and ah motorbike(newer type sportbike) kick's ass on a Z06 anywhere, > > exept for maybee a gravel roadbut ehh on the track and through the

corners > > 0-60, 0-100-0, 1/4mile and top speed mind you topspeed is really closebut > > by the time the Z06 catches up the guy on the bike is finished eatinghis > > lunch, > > If you dont believe me check out the april issue of Motorcyclist! > > "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > news:kpvD8.161017$[email hidden]... > > > I wasn't replying to you anyway, just making a comment on the factthat > > the > > > Viper is slower on the track than a Z06. > > > > > > No need to defend yourself with comments like "I have no desire toenter > > this > > > penis-waving contest..." Funny, people always resort to saying it's a > > > "midlife-crisis" or "penis thing" when the conversation turns toexpensive > > high > > > performance sports cars... Usually from people who don't or can'thave > > one... > > > > > > I guess that's what they teach you at UofM? 8-) > > > (I'm a EMU graduate, just a humorous jab there....) > > > > > > I enjoy my Z06, I bought it because I love cars. I don't race it onthe > > street > > > or the track (and it's 100% bone stock). I had in in A2 last fall,parked

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> > in > > > front of "Maize and Blue" and had a sandwich. > > > > > > Have fun! > > > > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > > > news:[email hidden]... > > > > In article <EonD8.106047$[email hidden]>, > > "ZeeOhSix > > > > \(Z06\)" <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > > > > > >A Z06 can kick a Viper's butt around a race track. > > > > >The Viper only beats a Z06 by a few 10ths in the 1/4, but the Z06

kills

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> > a > > > > >Viper > > > > >in any other test... braking, handling, etc. > > > > > > > > > >Sorry.... > > > > > > > > > > > Why are you sorry? Don't be sorry - be careful. I was just

answering > > Dave's > > > > 'question'. Since I'll never be able to afford either, I reallydon't > > CARE > > > > which car is faster/better. I have no desire to enter thispenis-waving

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> > > > contest... > > > > Have a nice day. > > > > > > > > Eldred > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

Actually Power (DIN) 415 hp at rpm 6,000 rpm 560 Nm Maximum torque (Between 3,500-4,500 rpm) which I believes is 412.98lb-ft of torque GT2 is as follows Max. power (DIN) 462 hp at rpm 5,700 rpm, and Max. torque(Between 3,500-4,500 rpm) 456 lb-ft, got that of the website , but thanks for the info It all really depends on which mag you read i've seen identical cars get different no's in different mags "Ian P" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:abn47d$nl9$[email hidden]...

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> Well from the data I can find, the Porsche is faster than the Z06. > > A quick comparison. > > Horse Power > Porsche 400 at 5750 rpm Torque: 400 @4,500 rpm > Z06 405 at 6000 rpm Torque 400 @ 4800 rpm > > Top speed > 911TT 192 mph > Z06 171mph > > 0-60 > 911TT 3.7 seconds > Z06 3.9 seconds > > standing quarter mile > > 911TT 12.1s @ 116 mph > Z06 12.4 seconds at 116 mph > > Then theres the 911 turbo S, which is even faster. > > Given the choice, even if the Porsche wasn't as fast, I'd pick it for it's > reputation and my preference of looks. > There again, if I was in the market for a car of this performance the only > choice would be Italian or British. > > For example, the TVR Cerbera 4.5 > > Max power 420 bhp @ 6750 rpm > Max torque 380 ft.lbs @ 5500 rpm > 0 to 60 mph in 3.9 secs > 0 to 100 mph in 8.3 secs > 0 to 150 mph in 17.9 secs > Maximum speed +190 mph > > > -- > > Ian P > <email invalid due to spam> > > > "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:cFDD8.191399$[email hidden]... > > The Z06 kicks the 911 Twin Turbo too.... and the TT costs 3x more. Go > figure. > > > > >

"ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:tEDD8.152354$[email hidden]... > Why would anyone compare a bike to a car? > It was done back in the 70's with a Pontiac Trans Am and a 750cc roadbike....The Trans Am posted faster lap times due to better braking....Just this past month, another magazine took a Z06 and a modern roadbike to Willow Springs in California. The Rider/driver was kevin Schwantz who is accomplised as a bike rider and car racer...despite getting within just a few ticks of the track record with the Vette, he blew it away with the bike. NOT even close. Cornering velocity was hugely in favor of the bike. dave henrie

"'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> writes:

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> I was wondering if any of you guys or gals have actually driven a race car > on a circuit, sprint track or hill climb? > > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closest to > getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way > off the real thing. > > I am not seeking confrontation but I am genuinely interested to know how > people conclude a game feels real? > > Comments appreciated.

Did 15 minutes of testing my mates 100 cc direct drive go-kart. It is probably one of the most enjoyable 15 minutes i've ever had with my clothes on. Years of GPL training actually helped with understanding what was going on, and how to use the loud pedal :) -- Olav Malmin remove .spam when replying

Dave Henrie <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZfHD8.38637$RR3.52456@sccrnsc02...

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> > "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tEDD8.152354$[email hidden]... > > Why would anyone compare a bike to a car? > > > It was done back in the 70's with a Pontiac Trans Am and a 750cc > roadbike....The Trans Am posted faster lap times due to better

Evo took a range of quick cars (from TVR Cerbera, through 600 bhp R32, to bike-engined 7s) plus a bike to Croft IIRC. The bike was second to the Caterham Blackbird, by a whisker. Jony

In article <bgDD8.65867$[email hidden]>, "Hans Jensen" <[email hidden]> writes: >Ya and ah motorbike(newer type sportbike) kick's ass on a Z06 anywhere, >exept for maybee a gravel roadbut ehh on the track and through the corners >0-60, 0-100-0, 1/4mile and top speed mind you topspeed is really close but >by the time the Z06 catches up the guy on the bike is finished eating his >lunch, >If you dont believe me check out the april issue of Motorcyclist! Apples and oranges. Bikes have better acceleration, cornering speeds, etc. Not that I'm defending the poor Z06<g>, but that's not a proper comparison. Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

In article <kpvD8.161017$[email hidden]>, "ZeeOhSix \(Z06\)" <[email hidden]> writes: >I wasn't replying to you anyway, just making a comment on the fact that the >Viper is slower on the track than a Z06. > When you respond directly to a message that *I* posted, the general consensus is that you ARE responding to me... >No need to defend yourself with comments like "I have no desire to enter this >penis-waving contest..." Funny, people always resort to saying it's a >"midlife-crisis" or "penis thing" when the conversation turns to expensive >high >performance sports cars... Usually from people who don't or can't have >one... If you had read my message completely, you'd know that I *said* I'll never own either. Obviously you missed that part. Truthfully, even if I *could* afford it, I wouldn't buy either one. I happen to prefer the Lotus Esprit Turbo, so THERE... :-P >I guess that's what they teach you at UofM? 8-) >(I'm a EMU graduate, just a humorous jab there....) I only work here - I didn't attend school here. >I enjoy my Z06, I bought it because I love cars. I don't race it on the >street >or the track (and it's 100% bone stock). I had in in A2 last fall, parked in >front of "Maize and Blue" and had a sandwich. Whatever works for you... Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

Yep that was the 1 i was refering to "Dave Henrie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:ZfHD8.38637$RR3.52456@sccrnsc02...

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> > "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:tEDD8.152354$[email hidden]... > > Why would anyone compare a bike to a car? > > > It was done back in the 70's with a Pontiac Trans Am and a 750cc > roadbike....The Trans Am posted faster lap times due to better > braking....Just this past month, another magazine took a Z06 and a modern > roadbike to Willow Springs in California. The Rider/driver was kevin > Schwantz who is accomplised as a bike rider and car racer...despite

getting > within just a few ticks of the track record with the Vette, he blew itaway > with the bike. NOT even close. Cornering velocity was hugely in favor of > the bike. > dave henrie > >

EldredP wrote: > If you had read my message completely, you'd know that I *said* I'll never own > either. Obviously you missed that part. Truthfully, even if I *could* afford > it, I wouldn't buy either one. I happen to prefer the Lotus Esprit Turbo, so > THERE... :-P Son-of-a-bitch...I thought I was the only one who got a woody from those things! Make mine British Racing Green with tan leather interior please. Now if I could only hit the Powerball jackpot ;-))))) Gary

I hope you know a good shop to have that repaired in.... They spend more time in the Garage than the road.... -- -- "Gary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > EldredP wrote: > > If you had read my message completely, you'd know that I *said* I'll never own > > either. Obviously you missed that part. Truthfully, even if I *could* afford > > it, I wouldn't buy either one. I happen to prefer the Lotus Esprit Turbo, so > > THERE... :-P > > Son-of-a-bitch...I thought I was the only one who got a woody from those > things! Make mine British Racing Green with tan leather interior please. > Now if I could only hit the Powerball jackpot ;-))))) > > > Gary >

In article <[email hidden]>, Gary <[email hidden]> writes:

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>EldredP wrote: >> If you had read my message completely, you'd know that I *said* I'll never >own >> either. Obviously you missed that part. Truthfully, even if I *could* >afford >> it, I wouldn't buy either one. I happen to prefer the Lotus Esprit Turbo, >so >> THERE... :-P > >Son-of-a-bitch...I thought I was the only one who got a woody from those >things! Make mine British Racing Green with tan leather interior please. >Now if I could only hit the Powerball jackpot ;-)))))

I already had plans for my anticipated Big Game winnings last month...<g> Eldred -- Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research to cure breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a donation. Thank you. Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

First of all its really great to see all the responses to my post. Where the hell do you get the idea that bikes have better cornering speeds? As a former owner of an R1 and the current owner of an E46 M3, I can promise you when it comes to the twisty stuff and heavy breaking the bike has no chance, none! Take a look at Jeremy Clarkson's DVD where he gets Neil Hodgson (Brit Superbike Champ) on a Yamaha R1 to race Jason Plato (Brit Touring Car Champ) in a Porsche 996 C2 around a standing start lap of Thruxton race circuit. Its close, but the Porsche beats the bike and its a good example of the different strengths of each vehicle. Bike kills car on acceleration, car kills bike around the twisty stuff and under breaking. Its a good test as it involves 2 people who get the most out of their vehicles rather than some race bike rider racing a wannabe in a road car or vice versa. Also compare the lap times of a World Superbike or 500cc machine to say and F3 car or Touring Car on the same circuit, you may be surprised how much faster 4 wheels are in the real world. If you want to see a real big difference take an F1 car as a comparrison and you would see that on most circuits the F1 car would lap the race bike in 4 or 5 laps. Now carry on bickering ;-) 'Our Kid' "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > In article <bgDD8.65867$[email hidden]>, "Hans Jensen" > <[email hidden]> writes: > > >Ya and ah motorbike(newer type sportbike) kick's ass on a Z06 anywhere, > >exept for maybee a gravel roadbut ehh on the track and through thecorners > >0-60, 0-100-0, 1/4mile and top speed mind you topspeed is really closebut > >by the time the Z06 catches up the guy on the bike is finished eating his > >lunch, > >If you dont believe me check out the april issue of Motorcyclist! > > Apples and oranges. Bikes have better acceleration, cornering speeds,etc. > Not that I'm defending the poor Z06<g>, but that's not a propercomparison. > > Eldred > -- > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research tocure > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to make a > donation. Thank you. > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply.

"reverend rob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:vbyD8.5956$[email hidden]...

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> "ZeeOhSix (Z06)" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:kpvD8.161017$[email hidden]... > > I wasn't replying to you anyway, just making a comment on the fact that > the > > Viper is slower on the track than a Z06. > > > > No need to defend yourself with comments like "I have no desire to enter > this > > penis-waving contest..." Funny, people always resort to saying it's a > > "midlife-crisis" or "penis thing" when the conversation turns to

expensive

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> high > > performance sports cars... Usually from people who don't or can't have > one... > > > that would be an expression! it's not a defense. it's used anytime > (usually) guys want to brag about and show off their trophies. sorry,

when

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> there's no wooly mammoth to bring back to the tribe, fine machines, like > you have there--which the price of could house a couple of homeless > families-- is nothing but a trophey. > > do i admire the vehicles? yes. but don't have one, or can't have one > doesn't enter into the equation for many folk, they just don't need the > trophies and they like using expressions. > > rob, (the guy that rides his 15 yr old heavy murray mtn bike to

work..gutter > bunny to the max... my penis is waving high and proud!) > I don't own a supercar (or a Z06 <g>), because I can have so much more fun in a RenaultSport Clio 172 (�11k in the UK brand spanking). Unfortunately I don't own a racetrack, so my fun comes from B-road blasts. If I won the lotto, it would be a Porsche 911 Turbo S (maybe even the RUF R Turbo - there's something about hanging the arse of a �160k supercar out like an old-skool Ford Escort :-), or a Ferrari 360... no, scrub that... a Ferrari V8 just doesn't ring right, even if it does sound absolutely fantastic on the lift-off overrun... Maybe a 550 Maranello, but then David Beckham has one of those... Okay, maybe a 355 F1 Berlinetta. Of course, there are other fantastic cars I would look at - Aston Vanquish, TVR Tamora, Evo VI/VII, Mini Cooper S, the fantastic Clio V6, Lotus Elise, Ford Puma, 206 GTi, I could go on. Does this mean I have a genetic defect with my sexual/excretary organs? Or a love of cars and motorsports that has gripped me since infancy and taken over? I don't care what you think. It is a natural thing to be proud of something you have worked hard for and earnt, and it is just as natural (some might say essentially British) to cloud envy with jeers. If it makes you happy, then just do it. <g> -- Nick "The overriding purpose of software is to be useful, rather than correct." John Carmack, id Software

"EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > If you had read my message completely, you'd know that I *said* I'll neverown > either. Obviously you missed that part. Truthfully, even if I *could*afford > it, I wouldn't buy either one. I happen to prefer the Lotus Esprit Turbo,so > THERE... :-P > Count me in on that one, baby! -- Nick "The overriding purpose of software is to be useful, rather than correct." John Carmack, id Software

"'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > Reading some of the posts here it seems that most people have never been > near the real thing let alone driven one. In my opinion the game closestto > getting it right is Grand Prix Legends, though this is still a little way > off the real thing. The biggest difference is obviously the feedback. Very subtle judders of the steering wheel and brake pedal when approaching the limit of grip can never be accurately reproduced in a sim, but everybody says that so I will move on. The second biggest fact in my opinion is that race cars (all cars, in fact) seem 'keyed in' to the road. It actually takes a surprising amount of effort to spin a race car if you are driving it properly - you get a lot of warning signs from the wheels before anything starts to give. In GPL this feeling is non-existant - there almost seems to be a layer between the tyres and the road slipping against them both. You can get realistic laptimes and such from GPL, but in a real race car you can drive at 90% fairly easily and consistently with no major 'moments', but in GPL driving anywhere above 70% is constantly twitchy and unstable. This all depends on the race car you drive, of course, and I am bound to get a whole bunch of people mailing me telling me how twitchy '67 GP cars were. You can look at the GPL intro video to get a perfect example of what I mean. There is a shot of a car coming off the in-built banking at the Karussel out at the 'Ring. I can't remember which car, but just look at how the car is reacting to the balance change and regaining grip. Now try to do that in GPL... GPL is by far the best, but there is still a long way to go. -- Nick "The overriding purpose of software is to be useful, rather than correct." John Carmack, id Software

Duh!!!! Did you catch that I/We were talking about the test done at willow springs between the Z06 and the GSXR1000 a $50,000 car vs $10,000 bike, and the driver of both was Kevin Schwants who's car racing credentials include the Nascar Busch Series, European Porsche Cup and the Australian Touring Car Series and like some one allready mentioned his laptime of 1:34.2 was within 1.6 seconds of the SCCA T1 Class record the Class a fully dialed Z06 would actually run in.That record was set by, guess what, a Corvette. And its the fastest car record on the willow springs lap-record list that was set by a street car, not a heavily modified car or purpose-built racer.(GSXR1000 did it in 1:26,6). In Fact for a bit of perspective, consider this in a race the bike would have lapped the car every 12 laps. Now lets talk about cornering Gs. at 85 mph in 450-foot radius turn two the corvette was actually pulling 1.073 lateral Gs. And the GSXR, at 97 mph was pulling a jaw-dropping 1.397 Gs. Turn two is slightly banked which explains how the car is actually cornering harder than its rated 1.0G limit. Ehm let me see to the best of my knowledge the skidpad G, of the Corvette Z06 is higher than that of an M3, well according to Road & Track Magazine it is they publish a 0.91 for the M3 & 0.97 for the Z06, Eh the bike and the car are both stock, how much does a F1 car cost $1 mill + ?? is it streetlegal??? what does a GP500 bike cost, roughly about $200,000 nope not streetlegal either, Personally i would like to see a matchup between an F1 and a GP Bike piloted by Rossi at the same track but I'm sure that has not been done yet ?, So let's get back to the streetlegal, discusion wich is where it started how much more do you have to spend on a car to find 1 that will corner better than a $10,000 Gixxer, and even so which car do you know of (production, bonestock) that will do 0-60 in 2.84 sec. 0-100 in 5.32 sec.0-100-0 in 11.01 sec.and the 1/4 mile in [email hidden] mph. Now if you want more info You'll just have to go pick up an issue of Motor Cyclist April 2001 where it mentions cars that also run in the T1 Class like the NSX, Viper, Ferrari 355 and 360. I believe that's enough "bickering" for now. Buttom Line is you just cant beat a bike, IMHO, now that will not stop me from purchasing the 911GT2, or the M5, or the new SL55 AMG, i love both cars and bike's, well maybe love is a bit strong I should say appreciate!!! "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]... > First of all its really great to see all the responses to my post. > > Where the hell do you get the idea that bikes have better corneringspeeds? > > As a former owner of an R1 and the current owner of an E46 M3, I canpromise > you when it comes to the twisty stuff and heavy breaking the bike has no > chance, none! > > Take a look at Jeremy Clarkson's DVD where he gets Neil Hodgson (Brit > Superbike Champ) on a Yamaha R1 to race Jason Plato (Brit Touring CarChamp) > in a Porsche 996 C2 around a standing start lap of Thruxton race circuit. > Its close, but the Porsche beats the bike and its a good example of the > different strengths of each vehicle. Bike kills car on acceleration, car > kills bike around the twisty stuff and under breaking. Its a good test asit > involves 2 people who get the most out of their vehicles rather than some > race bike rider racing a wannabe in a road car or vice versa. > > Also compare the lap times of a World Superbike or 500cc machine to sayand

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> F3 car or Touring Car on the same circuit, you may be surprised how much > faster 4 wheels are in the real world. If you want to see a real big > difference take an F1 car as a comparrison and you would see that on most > circuits the F1 car would lap the race bike in 4 or 5 laps. > > Now carry on bickering ;-) > > 'Our Kid' > > > > > "EldredP" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > In article <bgDD8.65867$[email hidden]>, "Hans

Jensen"

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> > <[email hidden]> writes: > > > > >Ya and ah motorbike(newer type sportbike) kick's ass on a Z06 anywhere, > > >exept for maybee a gravel roadbut ehh on the track and through the > corners > > >0-60, 0-100-0, 1/4mile and top speed mind you topspeed is really close > but > > >by the time the Z06 catches up the guy on the bike is finished eating

his

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> > >lunch, > > >If you dont believe me check out the april issue of Motorcyclist! > > > > Apples and oranges. Bikes have better acceleration, cornering speeds, > etc. > > Not that I'm defending the poor Z06<g>, but that's not a proper > comparison. > > > > Eldred > > -- > > Homepage - http://www.umich.edu/~epickett > > A friend of mine is involved in a fund-raiser walk-a-thon for research

to > cure > > breast cancer. If you can, please go to my homepage and see how to makea > > donation. Thank you. > > > > Remove SPAM-OFF to reply. > >

Hans Jensen wrote: > All depends on the track doesn't it...... http://www.nordschleife.no/ Beers and cheers (uncle) Goy http://www.theuspits.com "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" --Groucho Marx--

Spot on! Hans, its not that important, now chill or you may burst something... 'Our Kid' "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Hans Jensen wrote: > > > > All depends on the track doesn't it...... > > http://www.nordschleife.no/ > > > Beers and cheers > (uncle) Goy > > http://www.theuspits.com > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > --Groucho Marx--

What do you mean chill do I seem upset?, just making my point according to the test done by the magazine, at willow springs, and as I can see the test's done at Nurburgering, is also proving my point, a $10,000 bike is faster than most production cars and even some modified once, or did you miss that point where I said stock production cars vs. stock bike, well not in those exact words but I do think it was implied, also the speed test's of the bike were far quicker, that particular bike has a topspeed of 177 mph = 285 kmh, which obviously is not as fast as some production cars but at what price ? So If you think I'm upset or need to chill well then you my friend is wrong, I do realize there are a lot of nitpickers on this NG, that are upset with life in general, and complain about a whole lot of things that are important to them, but not to others, you may even catch me complaining every once in a while and if you do please remind me not to cause complaining and belittleling others with smartass comment's is just a way for people with low self-esteem to feel better about themselves and don't take this the wrong way Please, it is not an attack on any1 in particular just a fact "'Our Kid'" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...

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> Spot on! > > Hans, its not that important, now chill or you may burst something... > > 'Our Kid' > > > > "Goy Larsen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > Hans Jensen wrote: > > > > > > > All depends on the track doesn't it...... > > > > http://www.nordschleife.no/ > > > > > > Beers and cheers > > (uncle) Goy > > > > http://www.theuspits.com > > > > "A man is only as old as the woman he feels........" > > --Groucho Marx-- > >

"Nick" > > > I wasn't replying to you anyway, just making a comment on the factthat > > the > > > Viper is slower on the track than a Z06. Getting back to the meat of the conversation...I checked out Goy's link to the Ring for the Bike vs Car comparison. But what did I find...(in the stock category) Two Vipers well ahead of a heavily modified Callaway Vette and even a Subaru Impreza ahead of the First Corvette which was even further down the list. Now I'm not gonna wave my privates at your Auntie but it seems to me that Ten is bigger than 8. :) About 2 fangs more I'd wager. dave(troublemaker)henrie

ZeeOhSix (Z06) wrote: > > I hope you know a good shop to have that repaired in.... > They spend more time in the Garage than the road.... Guess I better buy a couple of them then :-))))))

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> > -- > -- > "Gary" <[email hidden]> wrote in message > news:[email hidden]... > > EldredP wrote: > > > If you had read my message completely, you'd know that I *said* I'll never > own > > > either. Obviously you missed that part. Truthfully, even if I *could* > afford > > > it, I wouldn't buy either one. I happen to prefer the Lotus Esprit Turbo, > so > > > THERE... :-P > > > > Son-of-a-bitch...I thought I was the only one who got a woody from those > > things! Make mine British Racing Green with tan leather interior please. > > Now if I could only hit the Powerball jackpot ;-))))) > > > > > > Gary > >